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Speaker 1: Coming up on you need therapy.

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Speaker 2: I think eating disorders can be like just a thief

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Speaker 2: of life, Like they just take over and steal your

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Speaker 2: joy and you can't live in the present and now

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Speaker 2: like being outside of it.

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Speaker 3: I think that's what was happening, and that makes me

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Speaker 3: really sad.

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Speaker 2: I wish I had more understanding of it then to

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Speaker 2: have had more fun with you, because we had so

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Speaker 2: much fun.

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Speaker 4: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't

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Speaker 4: a liability, it's a real gift.

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Speaker 2: If we don't know something about ourselves at this point

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Speaker 2: in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know.

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Speaker 1: If you can die before you die, then you can

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Speaker 1: really live.

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Speaker 3: There's a wisdom at death's door. I thought I was insane.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I didn't know what to do because there

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Speaker 2: was no internet. I don't know, man, I'm like, I

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Speaker 2: feel like everything is hard.

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Speaker 4: Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a human first

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Speaker 4: and a licensed therapist second. And right now I'm inviting

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Speaker 4: you into conversations that I hope encourage you to become

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Speaker 4: more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others, and the

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Speaker 4: world around you.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to you need Therapy.

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Speaker 4: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Therapy Podcast.

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Speaker 4: My name is Kat. I am the host, and quick

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Speaker 4: reminder before we get into today's episode that I'm very

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Speaker 4: excited about that this podcast, though hosted by a therapist,

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Speaker 4: does not serve as a replacement or substitute for any

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Speaker 4: actual mental health services. However, we always hope that it

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Speaker 4: can help you. However, it needs to help you wherever

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Speaker 4: you are on whatever journey you're on in the moment. So,

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Speaker 4: like I said, I'm pretty pumped for this episode because

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Speaker 4: it is a conversation with me and a very good

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Speaker 4: friend of mine that I have had. I met Kelly,

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Speaker 4: our guest, my freshman year of college, and she has

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Speaker 4: been somebody who has been very special and important in

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Speaker 4: my life sense. And we also have both struggled with

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Speaker 4: an eating disorder and our bodies and food and what

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Speaker 4: to say about those things and how to talk about

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Speaker 4: those things. And our conversation is one where we get

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Speaker 4: to share both our experience going through that ourselves and

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Speaker 4: the experience of watching a loved one, which is me

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Speaker 4: watching Kelly and Kelly watching me. So I wanted to

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Speaker 4: have this conversation because I think so much, and so

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Speaker 4: often we are worried about what to say and how

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Speaker 4: to bring things up, and often we end.

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Speaker 1: Up saying nothing.

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Speaker 4: And that's actually something that I did, and you'll hear

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Speaker 4: more about that in the episode. So I wanted to

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Speaker 4: have a really open conversation with Kelly about that and

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Speaker 4: put it out in the open to kind of one

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Speaker 4: share with you guys that you're not alone if you

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Speaker 4: don't know what the right thing to say is or

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Speaker 4: if you don't say the right thing. And also, even

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Speaker 4: if somebody does not receive something the way you want

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Speaker 4: them to receive it, it doesn't mean that you're not

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Speaker 4: planting a seed, and it doesn't mean that you are

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Speaker 4: not offering encouragement to somebody when it is said with

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Speaker 4: love and curiosity. So I am very excited for you

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Speaker 4: to get to hear from one of the coolest people

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Speaker 4: that I know. So let's just get into it. Here's

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Speaker 4: my conversation with one of my best friends, Kelly. Okay, guys,

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Speaker 4: like I said in the intro, today is a special episode.

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Speaker 4: And yes, I say special episode all the time, but

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Speaker 4: every time I say it, I really mean it. And

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Speaker 4: today I have one of my best friends, which is

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Speaker 4: weird to say this, but you're probably one of my

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Speaker 4: longest friends, even though we met in college because we

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Speaker 4: went to college so long ago, it seems.

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Speaker 1: But I have my friend.

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Speaker 4: Kelly here to talk to us. Kelly, do you want

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Speaker 4: to say hi?

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Speaker 3: Hello?

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Speaker 1: So Kelly, have you ever been on a podcast?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: How are you feeling?

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Speaker 3: I feel excited but kind of nervous.

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Speaker 4: Okay, before we go into why I have you here?

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Speaker 4: When was the first time you went to therapy?

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Speaker 1: Was that before I met you?

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Speaker 3: No, the first time the therapy.

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Speaker 2: You encouraged me to go to the campus therapist.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, you me. Wait when was that?

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Speaker 3: That? Haven't been our senior year of college.

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Speaker 1: Oh? Oh my gosh. Yes, that is funny.

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Speaker 2: Senior year of college, I was having panic attacks and

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Speaker 2: you were like, I think this could help maybe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is a bigger issue.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: You know what's funny is I remember having conversations like

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Speaker 4: junior and senior year with like my family and different

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Speaker 4: people who thought that I knew about mental health, but

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Speaker 4: I actually really didn't. I just wanted to know about it,

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Speaker 4: like thinking about my mom, talking about certain things in

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Speaker 4: our family or just anybody, And I'm like, what did

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Speaker 4: I say back then, because I really had no idea

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Speaker 4: what I was talking about.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, but I'm grateful that you encouraged me

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Speaker 2: to go because it I think, well, I was the

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Speaker 2: first person in my family to go to therapy, and

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Speaker 2: they all thought I was coocoo nuts.

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Speaker 1: Well because back then it wasn't Now, it wasn't that

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Speaker 1: long ago. That would be twenty twelve.

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Speaker 3: No, it really wasn't it.

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Speaker 1: But nobody went to therapy back now.

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Speaker 3: I still think there is like a big stigma around it.

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Speaker 2: Something had to be terribly wrong in your life for

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Speaker 2: you to go, and my parents just didn't understand, and

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Speaker 2: I think they took it kind of personally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, like my daughter doesn't need to go to therapy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like it just yeah, like I didn't do anything wrong.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh okay.

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Speaker 4: So Kelly is here today because we'll probably get off

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Speaker 4: tangent and talk about a lot of things, because we

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Speaker 4: really could talk for hours about what we're about to

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Speaker 4: talk about. But what we really want to focus on

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Speaker 4: today is the experience of having a friend or family

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Speaker 4: member or a loved one in general who is going

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Speaker 4: through specifically disordered eating or an eating disorder, but you

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Speaker 4: can actually listen to this and hear it in other

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Speaker 4: avenues like assebody struggling with any kind of addiction, or

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Speaker 4: just meant health in general. This is a very unique thing.

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Speaker 4: I think we have this experience of being friends through

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Speaker 4: the process of each of us going through our own

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Speaker 4: disordered eating and eating disorder, so we each have experience

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Speaker 4: of watching the other person do that and kind of

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Speaker 4: being a bystander, and then also being the person struggling.

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Speaker 4: And then so I have the experience of watching Kelly

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Speaker 4: Kelly's experience of watching me, and I just think that

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Speaker 4: is interesting because of the conversations we did or didn't

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Speaker 4: have and now knowing what we know. So what I

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Speaker 4: really want to do is talk about what that was

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Speaker 4: like for each of us on both sides, being the

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Speaker 4: one watching the friend and also being the one struggling,

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Speaker 4: and reflect on what it was that we wish you

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Speaker 4: would have said to the other person when we were

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Speaker 4: watching them, and also what it was that we might

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Speaker 4: have needed in those spaces when we were struggling ourselves.

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Speaker 4: So if you know anybody who has ever struggled with something,

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Speaker 4: and if you have ever struggled with something, then this

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Speaker 4: is an episode.

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Speaker 1: That I think you can benefit from.

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Speaker 4: So those of you who have listened to this podcast

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Speaker 4: for a while know that I had a period of

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Speaker 4: my life, specifically at the towards the end of college

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Speaker 4: into the early stages of me actually being in grad

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Speaker 4: school thinking I was going to go save everybody's lives.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, I like needed my own help and didn't know.

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Speaker 4: So I had an experience of really struggling with an

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Speaker 4: eating disorder myself and not knowing that I was. So

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Speaker 4: let's start the conversation, because that's that happened.

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Speaker 1: First.

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Speaker 4: I think of Kelly talking about what it was like

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Speaker 4: to watch me kind of tiptoe into that because it

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Speaker 4: was progressive and just like what that was like for

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Speaker 4: you and what you noticed as my friend.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so say whatever you want.

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Speaker 4: You're not gonna You're not gonna hurt my feelings, and

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Speaker 4: if you do, we'll work through it.

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Speaker 2: I have a very vivid memory because it was the summer,

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Speaker 2: I guess after junior year, I went and studied abroad

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Speaker 2: in Italy and Cortona, and I hadn't seen you because

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Speaker 2: I was in Italy all summer, and I remember being

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Speaker 2: in Germany about to come back for Rush workshop, and

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Speaker 2: I was on Facebook and I saw all these pictures

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Speaker 2: of you, and you had lost so much weight, like

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Speaker 2: so drastically, and I remember thinking like whoa. And then

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Speaker 2: one thought, I was like that was really fast? How

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Speaker 2: did that happen so fast? And then also like feeling

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Speaker 2: kind of proud of you in a weird way, you know,

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Speaker 2: because we had had conversations I remember in college about

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Speaker 2: you wanting to expand the food that you ate, like

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Speaker 2: you I remember like, you didn't eat a lot of vegetables,

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Speaker 2: you just like ate do you only have.

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Speaker 1: To take a figure Friday?

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Speaker 3: Yes, Friday?

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Speaker 2: And I remember like, other vegetables are great, like let's vegetables.

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Speaker 2: So I was like, oh, that's great, Like she's always

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Speaker 2: wanted to like expand her her diet. But obviously I

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Speaker 2: was also like focused on how you looked physically as well.

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Speaker 2: That's the first memory that always pops up in my

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Speaker 2: brain when I do think about the drasticness of because I.

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Speaker 4: Left jar it was jarring, but the initial thought was

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Speaker 4: more like that's surprising, but good for her, like something

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Speaker 4: good must have happened. Yes, but that's when you You

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Speaker 4: hadn't spent time with me yet.

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Speaker 3: Right, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I wasn't watching you exercise and run a bazillion

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Speaker 2: miles and you know, come over and eat spaghetti.

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Speaker 1: Squash with you.

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Speaker 4: So then when we went back to school, were there

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Speaker 4: things you noticed?

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Speaker 1: What happened?

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Speaker 3: Then?

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Speaker 2: What I remember a lot is you exercising a lot,

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Speaker 2: and I remember not eating a ton or like being

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Speaker 2: kind of worried about like we didn't go out to

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Speaker 2: restaurants as much anymore, Like we.

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Speaker 3: Didn't we didn't do stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: But I would always come over to your house, I remember,

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Speaker 2: and we would like cook dinner together, and it would

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Speaker 2: usually be like a soup that you would make with

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Speaker 2: orzo and chicken and like lemon. We would make that

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Speaker 2: like mock panera bread soup. Or you would cook a

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Speaker 2: bowl naise sauce and we would eat it over spaghetti squash.

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Speaker 4: Or we would eat salads and we would go out

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Speaker 4: to eat. I would go once a week. We'd go

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Speaker 4: to nukes.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we would go to nukes. Nukes was a safe place.

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Speaker 4: What's interesting, and I think it's interesting on both of

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Speaker 4: our sides, is the things that we started to do

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Speaker 4: and the things that we did are like good parts

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Speaker 4: of us, Like I do like to work out, and

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Speaker 4: that's a good part of I do like to eat

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Speaker 4: vegetables now, and that's a good part. I remember I'd

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Speaker 4: probably drink like five times our senior year.

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Speaker 3: We went up for the cruise, so we.

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Speaker 4: Went to spring break, and it affected like social life,

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Speaker 4: like I wouldn't go to yeah, and I would skip

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Speaker 4: date parties. I would skip like on the weekends, I

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Speaker 4: would take people to the bar, but I wouldn't go, which, like,

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Speaker 4: that's the confusing thing is you don't have to drink,

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Speaker 4: Like that's not a bad thing to not drink. But

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Speaker 4: I wasn't not drinking because I didn't want to drink.

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Speaker 4: I wasn't drinking because I was afraid that I would

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Speaker 4: either eat after or I wouldn't wake up for my workout.

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Speaker 3: Wow. Well, on the cruise, we would wake up in

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Speaker 3: the morning and go work out together.

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Speaker 2: Like which is crazy, Yeah, I know, and we'd be

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Speaker 2: like hungover and I like about to.

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Speaker 4: Vomit, like on a cruise running looking out into the

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Speaker 4: sea on a treadmill like that gives making me nauseous

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Speaker 4: right now thinking about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, was there.

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Speaker 4: Ever a moment where you were like, I feel like

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Speaker 4: this has gone too far or like, were you ever frustrated?

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Speaker 1: Like I kind of want my friend back.

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Speaker 2: I mean I I was also really busy during that

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Speaker 2: here too. You know, we're all like consumed in our lives,

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Speaker 2: but they're definitely yeah, I mean I feel like there

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Speaker 2: was I think eating disorders can be like just a

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Speaker 2: thief of life, like they just take over and steal

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Speaker 2: your joy and you can't live in the present and

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Speaker 2: now like being outside of it.

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Speaker 3: I think that's what was happening, and that makes me

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Speaker 3: really sad. I wish I had more.

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Speaker 2: Understanding of it then to have had more fun with you,

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Speaker 2: because we had so much fun.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. And we still had fun too.

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Speaker 4: I still had to look back on my college experience

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Speaker 4: and I'm very grateful for it and think that I

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Speaker 4: enjoyed it. But I think that's a good point of

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Speaker 4: you saying, like I would see these things, but I

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Speaker 4: didn't see them to the extent if this is what

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Speaker 4: you're saying. I didn't see them to the extent that

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Speaker 4: they were probably going on, and so it didn't make

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Speaker 4: me think, oh my gosh, I need to talk to

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Speaker 4: Catherine about this. It allowed you to stay in that like, well,

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Speaker 4: good for her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there were moments where I feel like I recognized

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Speaker 2: more of the exercise because I struggled with exercise addiction

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Speaker 2: in high school and I knew that that had really

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Speaker 2: taken over my brain. And I feel like that was

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Speaker 2: a big part of your journey too, like or just

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Speaker 2: your experience was the exercising part, like eating and then

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Speaker 2: maybe needing to like exercise after, or like getting anxiety

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Speaker 2: if you didn't exercise.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of the time we spent that year,

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Speaker 2: I just tried to meet you where you were because

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Speaker 2: I was like, I wasn't going out a lot either,

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Speaker 2: but not for those reasons. But we would go on

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Speaker 2: the walks or like that was the only way I

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Speaker 2: could really spend seeing you and spend time with you

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Speaker 2: as if we were moving our bodies in some.

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Speaker 1: Capacity or eating a vegetable.

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Speaker 3: Or eating a vegetable.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, oh, that actually feels very similar to my experience

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Speaker 4: of you. And I think part of this is important

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Speaker 4: to me because I think so often we want to

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Speaker 4: be sure before we talk to somebody about something that

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Speaker 4: we see, because we don't want to accuse somebody of

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Speaker 4: something that they're not doing. And I think that we

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Speaker 4: don't have to have these sit down, huge kind of

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Speaker 4: like come to Jesus meetings about these things. We can

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Speaker 4: talk to each other in other ways that are just like, oh,

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Speaker 4: we're going on a walk. Heay, I noticed that you

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Speaker 4: didn't eat your favorite whatever on your birthday meal?

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Speaker 1: Like do you not like that anymore?

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Speaker 4: Or like just little things like that versus I think

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Speaker 4: you have an eating disorder.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And the curiosity is important.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's more because after college.

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Speaker 4: For those of you who don't know Kelly, when I

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Speaker 4: think of you, I just think of like somebody like

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Speaker 4: flying in the wind. Like you're like going wherever you

300
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Speaker 4: need to go day, doing whatever you need to do.

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Speaker 4: You don't feel like held down. If you change your mind,

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Speaker 4: you're allowed to change your mind. You can get along

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Speaker 4: with most people. However, you also have a very strong

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Speaker 4: moral compass and belief system. So Kelly is somebody who

305
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,920
Speaker 4: you could do anything in a sense of if I'm like, hey,

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Speaker 4: do you want to go on this trip to me

307
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Speaker 4: in Mexico next week, You'd be like, sure, that sounds fun.

308
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Speaker 4: And if I was like, hey, do you want to

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Speaker 4: go to Young Life camp with me for a month?

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Speaker 4: Even though she Kelly had no idea what young life is,

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Speaker 4: and she volunteered and went with me for a month,

312
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Speaker 4: not having any experience with it, like she just is

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Speaker 4: down for whatever.

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Speaker 3: That's still one of the hardest experiences of my.

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Speaker 1: Life because you were in the bakery.

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Speaker 2: Like I've had two children, natural labors, and working in

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Speaker 2: that bakery was one of the hardest I've ever done.

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Speaker 4: You're like, and that's where my trauma starts. Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 4: you really did get one of the hardest jobs.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but we didn't know it was hard. Yeah, We're like,

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Speaker 3: sounds so romantic.

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Speaker 1: And I was making crafts. I was the craft girl.

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Speaker 4: Kelly was up at like three am. She was like

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Speaker 4: making biscuits with like flower over her face.

325
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Speaker 1: And I was like, I made you a friendship bracelet

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: And you were like, Kelly, hang out with us, Like

328
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Speaker 2: we're hanging out at night.

329
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Speaker 3: I'm like, I have to wake up at four and

330
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Speaker 3: walk up a.

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Speaker 4: Giant while Yeah, okay, anyway, so I say that, like,

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Speaker 4: Kelly is somebody who is just like care free, Like, yes,

333
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Speaker 4: you have. I have experienced you with anxiety. You had

334
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 4: the panic attacks, like you have things like that, and

335
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Speaker 4: you also were always like ready to go and you'd

336
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:47,720
Speaker 4: be there for anybody at all times, and you'd make

337
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:58,280
Speaker 4: things work. So after college, I don't have a lot

338
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Speaker 4: of and I think part of it's because I was

339
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,240
Speaker 4: so wrapped up in my own stuff, and I think

340
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Speaker 4: I was so focused on myself throughout my disorder and

341
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Speaker 4: then also.

342
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Speaker 1: My healing journey.

343
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Speaker 4: But I remember going to visit you, and you were

344
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,080
Speaker 4: going through a lot of like, and you can correct

345
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,240
Speaker 4: me if I'm getting stuff wrong, like autoimmune discoveries.

346
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Speaker 3: And having a lot of health challenges.

347
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Speaker 4: Okay, And so she went on this like elimination diet

348
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,120
Speaker 4: that seemed fine because it was like she was doing

349
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Speaker 4: it for a reason, she was finding these things that

350
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Speaker 4: worked for her. And so the first time when I

351
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,840
Speaker 4: spent time with you, I was like, Oh, like, this

352
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,560
Speaker 4: has to be really hard to live like this, And

353
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Speaker 4: it sounds like she's putting a lot of effort in

354
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Speaker 4: to take care of some issues that you've had for

355
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Speaker 4: since I'd known you. Yes, And so it was hard

356
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,080
Speaker 4: to assume anything was wrong when it felt like you

357
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:57,119
Speaker 4: were doing something that was really good for you, which

358
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 4: feels like that's how a lot of stuff starts, is

359
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,800
Speaker 4: it starts good intentioned. And so I remember going and

360
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,320
Speaker 4: visiting you and seeing all that and noticing how much

361
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,679
Speaker 4: effort you put into your meals and preparing food. I

362
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,360
Speaker 4: will never forget finding cricket powder in your pantry.

363
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Speaker 3: So much of it is so cringy, but it's really funny.

364
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:25,439
Speaker 2: I'm like, I think cricket brownie. Yes.

365
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,120
Speaker 4: I remember going home and telling my mom and being like, Mom,

366
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Speaker 4: Kelly has cricket powder in her pantry, but also being like,

367
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Speaker 4: if that works for her, that's whatever. Like it wasn't

368
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,720
Speaker 4: It wasn't even yellow flags at that point. I think

369
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:44,200
Speaker 4: when I noticed something being off is when it never stopped.

370
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Speaker 4: It just kept getting worse in the sense of more extreme.

371
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,159
Speaker 4: So then the next time I visited you, I just

372
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Speaker 4: remember how much time you spent talking about food, going

373
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Speaker 4: shopping for food, preparing food. And the thing I said

374
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,680
Speaker 4: to Kelly before we started recording, this is the hard

375
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 4: part is the food she was making was delicious. Now,

376
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,720
Speaker 4: some things would be weird, like if you just saw

377
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 4: on a menu'd be like that sounds like a weird meal.

378
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,000
Speaker 1: But it always tasted good, yes, always.

379
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,600
Speaker 4: So that was really hard because it wasn't like she

380
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,439
Speaker 4: was just eating like kale and baby carrots, which is

381
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 4: like what I did. It was always these delicious meals

382
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,399
Speaker 4: that so much effort was put into. It felt like

383
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 4: she really cared. She wanted to treat her a new

384
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 4: baby well and make sure he was getting the best

385
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,119
Speaker 4: nutrients from you, and so what you put in your

386
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 4: body mattered. But I could tell that there was like

387
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,159
Speaker 4: something off where it didn't feel as like I can

388
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,479
Speaker 4: just be with my friend. And this is hard to

389
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,399
Speaker 4: recognize because I'm still in this early recovery process and

390
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 4: then I'm starting to work as an eating disorder therapist

391
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 4: and a lot of times in early recovery, and I

392
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,560
Speaker 4: can admit this, I just like I felt when I

393
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,960
Speaker 4: was in my eating disorder. I felt a sort of

394
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,399
Speaker 4: self righteousness. I felt a sort of self righteousness on

395
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,199
Speaker 4: that I know how to be in recovery and what

396
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 4: you should be doing too, So I treaded those waters

397
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 4: very lightly. And then you came to visit a couple times.

398
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 4: I think I saw you a couple times in between then,

399
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,880
Speaker 4: and we'd keep in touch. Things just kept the same,

400
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 4: But it was what you said, like we were separate

401
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 4: enough where I wasn't always seeing it. Yes, so it

402
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 4: didn't feel as I guess important that I needed to

403
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 4: like call things out. And then you came in town

404
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 4: for was it JP's interview?

405
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,640
Speaker 3: Yes, JP is interviewing, Yeah, okay.

406
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 4: And I just noticed it felt stressful and it wasn't

407
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 4: like we weren't having a good time, but it's like

408
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 4: there's just an essence of like anxiety around everything.

409
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 1: And we went to actually one of my favorite restaurants

410
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 1: in Nashville.

411
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 4: It's a vegan restaurant, so good, which again like, yes,

412
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 4: we went there for a reason because you felt comfortable

413
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 4: going there, but I also liked that restaurant, so that

414
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 4: wasn't the red flag. But then we had a conversation

415
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 4: that we never talked about again.

416
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: How long ago was.

417
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 2: This, Judah, My youngest is four now, so he had

418
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 2: to have been barely like six months maybe, okay, so

419
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 2: this was maybe three years.

420
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,200
Speaker 1: Ago ish, Okay, so we ago.

421
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 4: We never talked about this conversation again until like a

422
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 4: couple months ago when we brought it up. But I

423
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 4: want you to tell me what you remember happened in

424
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 4: that conversation, because I might have a different memory of it.

425
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 2: I mean, food was very stressful, so like anytime we traveled,

426
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 2: you know, did anything. I was always having anxiety about food,

427
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 2: so I understand the ball of anxiety probably just consuming

428
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 2: my presence at that time.

429
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 3: But I remember having a conversation.

430
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 2: With you because Quinn, my oldest son who's almost seven now,

431
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 2: I also restricted his food as well, so I think

432
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 2: that maybe sparked some of the conversation, like just you

433
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 2: asking me questions about that or like what was the.

434
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 3: Reason for doing that, or trying to understand. I never

435
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:20,880
Speaker 3: felt attacked.

436
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 2: By you or like defensive in any way at all,

437
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 2: which is great because I think I probably could have

438
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 2: easily felt that way, but you always had a great

439
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 2: way of just I don't know, I just always felt

440
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 2: very safe with you, having conversations like I never felt

441
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 2: judged by you, Like if my husband would have asked

442
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 2: me that, I probably would have been like, uh wt.

443
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 3: You know nothing.

444
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,239
Speaker 1: Do you remember what sparked that conversation.

445
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 3: Though not really it was Halloween.

446
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 4: No, it was Halloween. You said something on the lines

447
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 4: of I don't know what to do about Halloween. Quinn

448
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 4: wants to go trick or treating, but I don't know

449
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 4: if I should let him, and I was like, what

450
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 4: do you mean? Like I was genuinely confused at first.

451
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: Yes, I do remember it was about the switch witch.

452
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: What's a switch witch?

453
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, great question. So a lot.

454
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,719
Speaker 2: I mean at this time I was also heavily on

455
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 2: social media, which I am not anymore, which is very

456
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: great for me. Doesn't have to be like that for everybody,

457
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 2: but it's better if I'm not seeing what everyone else

458
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 2: is doing all the time and being influenced by that.

459
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 3: But they're at the time where and I'm sure.

460
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 2: There's still people doing this, but a lot of like

461
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: natural mommies out there worried about all of the preservatives

462
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 2: and food dies and sugar and all that stuff, and candy,

463
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 2: so they would give their they would let their kids

464
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 2: go trigger treating, but then they would give them the

465
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: option of letting the switch witch come, which would switch

466
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 2: out their candy for like some other types of treats

467
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 2: slash like some like a toy or something, so kind

468
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 2: of giving them the choice. But oftentimes I feel like

469
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 2: there really wasn't a choice. They would just say the

470
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 2: switch switch was coming and then switch it all out.

471
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 3: Kind of thing.

472
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 4: You said, if Quinn's gonna eat candy, it's gonna be

473
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 4: candy that you make for him. And I really was like,

474
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 4: what do you mean, help me understand? Like I really

475
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 4: was at that moment, like does he have is he

476
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 4: allergic to?

477
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: Something? Like is this? Like where did you get this information?

478
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 4: So this is actually so interesting to have this conversation

479
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 4: with you, because I've always wondered if I was like

480
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 4: too harsh, because I remember jp your husband being like

481
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 4: I'll be right back, and him like taking the kids

482
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 4: and walking away.

483
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: And it's uncomfortable.

484
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 4: Probably yeah, because he's like what's going on? So for you,

485
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 4: what was important about that conversation?

486
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: I mean I kind of knew deep down that something

487
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: was wrong, Like I felt that, and I could feel

488
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 2: that in my relationship because it was a source of

489
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: a lot of tension. He had a lot of conflict

490
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: around this, Like I felt like I wasn't being understood

491
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 2: by my husband at the time for all of these concerns.

492
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 3: I was having.

493
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: He was also like in residency and both of our

494
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: capacities were just not there at all for a.

495
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 3: Lot of stuff, just very stressful times. I had come

496
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 3: to the conclusion or had.

497
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 2: A thought like like I knew I had struggled with

498
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 2: eating stuff, and I knew like restricting wasn't really the greatest.

499
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 2: I didn't want to project any of my stuff onto

500
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: my kids, and you had asked me some sort of

501
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 2: question kind of pertaining to that, and it really got

502
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: me thinking about that more.

503
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 3: And that's really what started.

504
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 2: That's the catalys of like me making changes and seeking

505
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 2: help and all of that.

506
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 3: Is. I don't remember exactly what you said, though I

507
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 3: wish I did.

508
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: I tried to journal and like remember and write it out,

509
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 2: but I don't know, but it really stuck with me.

510
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: So thanks, Well you're welcome.

511
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 4: But what's so interesting is this conversation had like have

512
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 4: them what four years ago? Well, I've seen you since then,

513
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 4: and things didn't dramatically change because I've I seen you

514
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 4: since then and you still were very concerned about where

515
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 4: we went to eat and all that stuff. And I

516
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 4: want to be clear that I think our experiences were

517
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 4: a little different in the sense that I was hyper

518
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 4: focused on what my body looked like and I was

519
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 4: really ignoring a lot of my actual physical health. You

520
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 4: were very, very.

521
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: Concerned with your health.

522
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 4: Yes, both of those things manifested in a life that

523
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 4: was it's like we tried to control our anxiety by

524
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 4: our disorders but it also gave us more anxiety.

525
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, yeah, I mean I talked to my therapists

526
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 2: about this all the time, Like the way that because

527
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 2: I struggled with more leaning towards anorexia and high school,

528
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: like I definitely like over exercising, food diaries, like counting calories,

529
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: very concerned, and that was more were trying to alter

530
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 2: the look of my body. But as I've come to

531
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 2: find out, that is a very hard life to sustain,

532
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: Like I couldn't sustain that, and so you know, then

533
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 2: I became a vegetarian. And then college happened, and you

534
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: drink a lot, and you forget to drink water and

535
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 2: take care of yourself and all the things, and you

536
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: stay up late, and I started having all these health

537
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 2: issues or just things that no medical professional could really

538
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 2: put a finger on, like I couldn't get a diagnosis

539
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: that they were doing all these tests.

540
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 3: And I would say that my eating disorder in.

541
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: High school started out of wanting a sense of control.

542
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: It mainly ramped up after Hurricane Katrina and we were

543
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 2: displaced for a while. And then yeah, I would say

544
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 2: that it just manifested in a different way and took

545
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: on a more socially acceptable, you know, presence, because people

546
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: were concerned about me in high school but didn't approach

547
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 2: me in a gentle way. But I could hide this better.

548
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 2: I didn't know I was doing that, but it was.

549
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 2: It was just hidden in plain sight.

550
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: You were still eating, and you were making delicious meals,

551
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: and you were preparing wonderful things for your family. But

552
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: the issue wasn't that. The issue was how much concern

553
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,239
Speaker 1: went into the quality and what it was that you

554
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: were eating. You were still probably getting the nutrients you needed.

555
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I still lost a lot of weight because

556
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: the diet, the elimination diet, was based off a paleo diet,

557
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: so I would say, it's like Paleodo on crack, Like yeah,

558
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 2: even more restrictive than Paleo would be.

559
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 3: So you're you're.

560
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 2: Actually restricting other types of vegetables that could cause symptoms.

561
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 2: So what ended up happening is it took more of

562
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: like an orthodoxy approach where I just became so fearful

563
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: of all types of food, like food that would be

564
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 2: considered good for you, like yeah, Jato.

565
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember you saying I can't have night shade vegetables,

566
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 4: And I was like, what do you mean like yeah,

567
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 4: And I really was just like confused. It wasn't I

568
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 4: don't think I ever felt like, oh, I'm gonna tell

569
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 4: you that you're doing something bad. I just was like,

570
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 4: I don't get it. And I do understand that that

571
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 4: does affect people certain ways and this it can be

572
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 4: a thing that you can't have certain foods, but it

573
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 4: every time I saw you for a period of time,

574
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 4: it was like there was another thing and it was

575
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 4: more concerned and that's just not who you are.

576
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: So no, yeah, I'm like not a type a rigid

577
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: person became so rigid.

578
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 3: And have you ever read Dan Siegel's Whole Range Child? No?

579
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: But I do love Dan Siegel.

580
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: He talks about in this book that there's like, you know,

581
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: you want to be floating down the river well being

582
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: and you're not in the river well being when there's

583
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 2: like a rigid bank and a chaos bank.

584
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 3: And so I felt at that time I was just

585
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 3: like pinging.

586
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, like

587
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: I there was no well being there, even though it

588
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 2: gave the appearance that I was taking very good care

589
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 2: of myself. And how many people still now don't understand.

590
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: They think I was taking really good care of myself,

591
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: and I'm like the epitome of health.

592
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, really, I'm struggling so much. Yeah, well

593
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 3: smoothly and physically.

594
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

595
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: When was this? This was like two months ago.

596
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 4: I feel we were talking on the phone and you

597
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 4: were going to pick up We're going to pick up

598
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 4: both of your kids or just Quinn.

599
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 2: I think I had just picked up Quinn from school. Okay, yeah,

600
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: I was picking quinnup from.

601
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 4: School, So we were talking the whole way when she's

602
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 4: going to get them, and you probably just like weren't

603
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 4: thinking because we were on the phone, so you realized

604
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 4: when you picked up Quinn that you forgot his snack.

605
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 4: And I remember you saying to him like, I forgot

606
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 4: your snack, or maybe he said like, Mom, where's my

607
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 4: snack and you're like, I forgot it. We'll stop at

608
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 4: the gas station and you can pick something out. And

609
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 4: I remember just being like, what what kind of gas

610
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 4: station are you going to?

611
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: Is?

612
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: Do you have a gas station?

613
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 3: The whole point's point by.

614
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: I literally was like what gas stations did they have there?

615
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 4: Because what and we again, we had never talked about

616
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 4: that conversation. We had four years earlier, and I had

617
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 4: seen you since then, and I still noticed some things

618
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 4: that I also didn't notice that maybe you were working

619
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 4: on things too, because we just never talked about it

620
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 4: again and I just let you do your thing.

621
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: And that's when you were like, well, you know, I

622
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: guess you could say I'm in recovery. It was just

623
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: so I was like, oh my god, how do I

624
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: not know this?

625
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 4: And that's one of the reasons I really wanted to

626
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 4: have this conversation, is why did I not know that

627
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 4: you were moving through this process? Because recovery is a

628
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 4: really hard process, and I felt like, on my experience,

629
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 4: I got really scared. And it's helpful to hear you

630
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 4: say some of this, but I got really scared because

631
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 4: I didn't want to be a know it all and

632
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 4: I didn't want to push you, and I didn't want

633
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 4: to tell you or make you think that I knew

634
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 4: what you needed more than you know. And so after

635
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 4: that conversation, I was so happy for you, but I

636
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 4: also had some regret of like, I wish I would

637
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 4: have checked in with you after that, but I felt

638
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 4: like I was like, too scared. I wish I would

639
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 4: have checked in with you after that. But I felt

640
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 4: like I was like too scared too.

641
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I don't know if this was

642
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 2: intentional or not, or just because you know, we're both

643
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: humans living in different places and have different lives. But

644
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: for a while, like after like during the pandemic, I

645
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: remember coming to visit you with Quinn and Judo.

646
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 3: Was right before we moved from Birmingham.

647
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 2: I was like, I need to come visit you one

648
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 2: last time while I'm this close to you, and I

649
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: stayed at your house with all your friends and my

650
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 2: two children, and it was crazy, like it's not And

651
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: after that, when I moved to Baton Rouge, maybe a

652
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: year after whatever was still like causing a lot of

653
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 2: conflict with me and my husband and just we weren't

654
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 2: able to navigate it ourselves. But like I knew, like

655
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 2: I knew something after being in therapy for a little while,

656
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 2: like that it wasn't right. And I had actually like

657
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: never really talked to anyone about my eating disorder in

658
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 2: high school, maybe only you, to be honest, like it

659
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 2: wasn't really something even my husband knew about me, Like

660
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 2: there's just so much lack of communication about it, and

661
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: maybe that was me being shameful of it or just

662
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 2: not really understanding like what it was or dismissing it.

663
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 3: I'm not really.

664
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: Sure, but I started to do some exposure therapy from

665
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,719
Speaker 2: our couple's therapist, like she was kind of helping us

666
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: navigate some of the triggers that were like kind of

667
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: you know, like or just kind of mediate some conversations

668
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: just having around it. But I do remember feeling a

669
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: distance between us, and I remember listening to your podcasts

670
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 2: and feeling like I feel like I could be triggering you,

671
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 2: you know, like I know I have this stuff going on,

672
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: and I felt like for a while I would call

673
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 2: you and maybe you wouldn't get back to me.

674
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 3: But now I realized like we were just busy. But

675
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 3: during that time, I was like, oh no, I feel

676
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 3: like I'm triggering her. I don't want to trigger her.

677
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 2: And that actually really helped me kind of move through

678
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 2: that stuff, because like, your friendship is so special to me.

679
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 3: And I wanted to be in.

680
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 2: Your life and have you in mind. And that wasn't intentional,

681
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: like I don't think I had thought about talking to

682
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: you about it before, but I just I got scared too.

683
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: So I feel like maybe there was like some both

684
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 2: of us kind of distancing maybe happening.

685
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 4: That's so interesting, And I will say I'm I'm notorious

686
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 4: for not answering my phone because I just hate talking

687
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 4: about it. But with that, I think there could be

688
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 4: something too that when you said triggering, I think it

689
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 4: probably was more of like not that you are triggering me,

690
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,439
Speaker 4: and that like I feel like I need to get

691
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 4: back into my disorder and it was making it hard

692
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 4: for me to eat.

693
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: I think it was more.

694
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 4: Of like it's hard for me to be around you, yes,

695
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 4: because I don't know what to say, like I don't

696
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 4: want to tell you how to parent your kids and

697
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 4: how to live your life, and this is really scary.

698
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 4: I think that's probably what it was of like this

699
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 4: is so scary. It was a little bit of this

700
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 4: was this is not my friend that I remember, and

701
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 4: even with you are such a good mom and you

702
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 4: are still which interesting is you're still so carefree and

703
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 4: like if your kid is like eating dirt, you're like

704
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 4: that's cool, Like so you still have that essence, But

705
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,919
Speaker 4: then it was like paired with this other thing.

706
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: So I think it was probably more of that, I like,

707
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: I feel like.

708
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 4: I want to say something so bad, and I'm trying

709
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 4: not to say it because I don't want to overstep,

710
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 4: So I'm putting distance in between us, but I'm not

711
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 4: telling you that I'm doing that.

712
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I could feel that, like I'm a very

713
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 2: sensitive person. Yeah, yeah, I feel that for a couple

714
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: of years, and I would talk to JP about it

715
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 2: and I was like, I want to have a conversation

716
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 2: with her, but I mean I also just like, I mean,

717
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: your friendship means so much to me, Like I've always

718
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 2: felt very safe with you to be able to have

719
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 2: like real conversations and you know, like it was never a.

720
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 3: Surface with us at all.

721
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 2: I trusted that I was important to you too in

722
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 2: that like it would somehow, you know, come back around,

723
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 2: and I.

724
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 3: Feel like it really has, so I'm really.

725
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: Thankful for that.

726
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 4: This is interesting because a lot of people listen to

727
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 4: this podcast and they think, like, oh, Catherine will know

728
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 4: what to say to somebody or ask Catherine what to say.

729
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 4: But my own therapist says this to me. She said

730
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 4: it two weeks ago. She said, this is why people

731
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 4: that cut hair don't cut their own hair, Like when

732
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 4: you're in it, it is different, Like I was too

733
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 4: close to it. To see and so I can share

734
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 4: somebody else's experience and help them see it clearly. But

735
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 4: I can't clean the windows of my own. I need

736
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 4: somebody to help me do that.

737
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I wish that I would have told you,

738
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: because I know that trip that you came.

739
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 4: It was when I lived in my little, tiny, my

740
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 4: tiny home. I loved that house both tiny. I remember

741
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 4: feeling like exhausted, But it wasn't like the exhaustion of

742
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 4: like you being here and like having kids around, because

743
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 4: I love that. I think it was the exhaustion of

744
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 4: like the internal battle of do I say something? Do

745
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 4: I not say something? Like am I being judgmental? Or

746
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 4: am I am? I worried about her like that, and

747
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 4: I just didn't do anything with it. So this goes

748
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 4: back to what I said earlier, is it doesn't always

749
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 4: have to be the sit down you need to go

750
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 4: to treatment like you're ruining your Yeah, it could have

751
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 4: been like I noticed that it was really hard. I

752
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 4: could have just said it was I'm sorry if I

753
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 4: was weird. It was hard for me to watch you

754
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 4: do some of these things because I don't understand them.

755
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 3: It could have been that, Yeah, Yes, that would have

756
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 3: been great.

757
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 4: So thinking back, is there anything else that like as

758
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 4: somebody who is struggling and that wished because I know

759
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 4: there's some things that I wish people would have said

760
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 4: to me back then. I don't know if I would

761
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 4: have listened to them.

762
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 3: What are those things? Because I think about that all

763
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 3: the time.

764
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: I mean, even before I entered into that phase of

765
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: like I guess the orthorexia part of my eating disorder.

766
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: I remember seeing you a lot on Instagram, like you

767
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,919
Speaker 2: would post a lot of recipes and stuff.

768
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 3: We all did it. It's fun.

769
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 4: I had like exercise in food Instagram like that has

770
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 4: since been deleted.

771
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 3: I was a recipes yes.

772
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 4: Quote yeah, although I will say no, no shame in

773
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 4: recipe developers.

774
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 3: We love recipe developers.

775
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 2: It's how I like, I still eat gluten free because

776
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 2: gluten makes me feel terrible and so it's dairy, So like,

777
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 2: shout out to all the people that put in the

778
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 2: hard work to make delicious things.

779
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: But we don't all have to do it.

780
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: No, we don't, and I don't want anyone to have

781
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 2: to do it unless they have to.

782
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't specifically know, because it's hard to not

783
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 4: be in it. Now, I know things that I would

784
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 4: want people to say, but I don't know if I.

785
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: Would listen to it.

786
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 4: But I think just the little things, so like like

787
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 4: I said, or like I noticed that you didn't eat

788
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 4: this thing, do not like it anymore?

789
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: Or or you're not going out?

790
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 3: Why aren't you going out? Yeah?

791
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, like I miss you, and just like planning little seeds,

792
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 4: because sometimes when we come and have this bigger intervention,

793
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 4: we immediately go into defense mode and you're wrong, You're jealous,

794
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 4: you don't understand when it could have been just like

795
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 4: you or I planning little seeds. I noticed this, this,

796
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 4: like the conversation at Sunflower. We could have kept having

797
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 4: those kinds of conversations.

798
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 2: Yes, maybe I would have appreciated more conversations. Yeah, maybe

799
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 2: that is something I needed. But you were honestly the

800
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 2: only person I had ever had a conversation. You were

801
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 2: the only person that ever challenged me. So but the

802
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: curiosity part, I think is always really helpful, just like

803
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 2: exactly what you said, like I noticed this, like help

804
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 2: me understand this, or like I you know, coming from

805
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 2: a place of wanting to understand because I did.

806
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 3: That's like one of.

807
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: My wounds is like feeling misunderstood, and I'm definitely going

808
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 2: to be more receptive to you if you're coming from

809
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 2: a place of curiosity instead of judgment.

810
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there were often.

811
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 2: Questions you would ask me that I really couldn't explain,

812
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 2: and like when I couldn't explain them, that also, you know,

813
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 2: gets your brain going, It's like, wait, why am I

814
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 2: doing this?

815
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 3: Like what what is the purpose of this?

816
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean there was a lot going on

817
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 2: with me at the time I was I was probably

818
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 2: still struggling with like postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety, and

819
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 2: there was like a lot of unresolved trauma.

820
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 3: So it was a lot of.

821
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: Like moving pieces and layers to that. But yeah, the

822
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 2: planning little seeds, I think is great advice and just

823
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: the more gentle you can be. And if you have

824
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 2: to distance yourself like you did and maybe I did,

825
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 2: I think that's okay.

826
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 4: I think that what I would say I would take

827
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 4: responsibility for is I wouldn't so much call it distance

828
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 4: to take care of myself. I think I would call

829
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 4: it avoidance because I didn't want to be uncomfortable.

830
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 3: Oh yeshing, Okay, Well I didn't see it like that.

831
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that's what I was doing, Like

832
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: it wasn't about.

833
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 3: A yeah probably yeah.

834
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 4: And I would want my friends because I'm okay being uncomfortable.

835
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 4: I don't like it, but that's part of being a

836
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 4: good friend is I will call something out in a

837
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 4: kind way, even if it's about me being uncomfortable. I

838
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 4: could have said, like, hey, I noticed I was really

839
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 4: uncomfortable at this thing when I noticed blank, versus you

840
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 4: made me uncomfortable when you ordered blank, or you made

841
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 4: me uncomfortable and you said it's I felt uncomfortable when

842
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 4: I heard this. I felt uncomfortable when I experienced this,

843
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 4: And what it brought up for me is knowing what

844
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 4: it's like to feel like I have to control everything,

845
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 4: and what it brought up for me. Maybe I think

846
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 4: what it brought up for me is I was really

847
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 4: concerned about you. But it always came back to the

848
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 4: Halloween candy conversation where you put so much effort into

849
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 4: caring and being a good mom for your kids and

850
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 4: letting them be. I know this is important to you,

851
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 4: letting your kids be whoever they are, like letting that

852
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 4: show up.

853
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 1: And what I saw is you.

854
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 4: Not in the personality wise way, but in the just

855
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 4: the food part of just controlling so much about your

856
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 4: children's experience, and I didn't want them to grab onto

857
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 4: those beliefs that you had that were rooted in anxiety

858
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 4: versus reality.

859
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was part of what you said to me

860
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 2: at the restaurant. Is something along those lines. And even

861
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 2: though like maybe it still took me a few years

862
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 2: to actually make some changes, there was stuff happening inside

863
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 2: and I was having thoughts and reading and you know,

864
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:55,919
Speaker 2: asking questions. I've always been someone that is very in word,

865
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 2: I'm also very outward, but that that was happen and

866
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 2: I wasn't talking to anyone about it.

867
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 3: I wish I would have maybe reached out to you more.

868
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 3: I don't know, but you know I got here, so Yeah.

869
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 1: And also like I get not because as much as

870
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: we want out of something, it's also something that's giving

871
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: us something. So as much as I would want help

872
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: with my own stuff, That's why I'm like, I don't

873
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: know if I would listen to people. I think I

874
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 1: would want to hear people say like I'm a little

875
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: worried for you, or like I would want them to

876
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: act like something serious was happening.

877
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,439
Speaker 4: But I think I would probably initially run away from

878
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 4: it because it would threaten this thing that was helping me.

879
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 4: Like in the beginning, how much affirmation I got was everything.

880
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: It was like the air I breathed.

881
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 4: So if you were going to encourage me to do

882
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 4: something that would threaten me getting that affirmation, I would

883
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 4: run away from it at first.

884
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was.

885
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 2: It was becoming a point where I feel like my

886
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: husband was not embarrassed, but like he just couldn't explain

887
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: it to people. And we would go places and I

888
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 2: would like pack food for me and fre Quinn and yeah,

889
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: and then people would be.

890
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 3: Like, does he have allergies? And I'd be like, no,

891
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 3: but I do.

892
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 2: And I'm trying to prevent everything because the same person

893
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 2: has taken over my body.

894
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

895
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 4: Okay, So to kind of close this out and to

896
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 4: summarize some of what we're saying from your experience of

897
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 4: being in that place, what would you share or encourage

898
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 4: somebody who's listening and is like, I've noticed some of

899
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 4: these things and people in my life, but I am.

900
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: Nervous to say something. What would you encourage them to

901
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: say or do?

902
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really hard, because I mean I think it

903
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 2: also depends on each person individually.

904
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 3: But I mean there is a beauty in being vulnerable.

905
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 2: And just like like you said earlier, in that you

906
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 2: were like, no, I actually think I was avoiding this.

907
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: But if I was actually vulnerable with you and told

908
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 2: you how come from a place of curiosity and asking

909
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 2: these questions and tell you that I'm uncomfortable with this

910
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: and I'm trying to understand it, there's a lot of

911
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 2: productivity that can come from that, And of course the

912
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 2: person has to be receptive, but I would just encourage

913
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 2: someone to plant a seed. Yeah, I think in asking

914
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 2: questions and trying to come from a place of understanding

915
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 2: and less judgment, which can be hard because I think

916
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 2: food can be.

917
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 3: Triggering for everybody in some capacity.

918
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 4: I would add on to that, if we're coming from

919
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 4: a place where we're willing to be wrong, Like when

920
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 4: you say curiosity, it's like we don't know the answer.

921
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: And so if somebody is struggling with something.

922
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 4: And they are super defensive, like that makes sense that

923
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 4: they might not be in a place to hear that yet,

924
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 4: but it might plant a seed. And if somebody doesn't

925
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 4: have an issue and they're like, oh, that's because of

926
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 4: this no good friend is going to be offended that

927
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 4: you're offering support and care to them.

928
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. It's it's kind of all about the approach.

929
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 2: Like I guess it's kind of coming from a place

930
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 2: of being respectful of whatever that person is going through,

931
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 2: but also like showing concern and yeah, and giving support

932
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 2: and that's really what I mean. What you want to

933
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: be doing as a friend and as someone that cares

934
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 2: about someone is you want to support them and do

935
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 2: whatever they need to move forward or I don't know,

936
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 2: like it's always coming from a place of concern, but

937
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 2: it's yeah, the approach, I think that really matters.

938
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 4: Can you offer too, because this is important as somebody

939
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 4: who's in a place of recovery, Can you share what

940
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 4: it's been like that it has Like has it been easy?

941
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 4: Like when you went to the gas station to get snacks?

942
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 4: Like what is that like for you?

943
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 3: Now? It's not easy.

944
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 2: I have a really good friend here that I can

945
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 2: actually have these conversations with and she kind of struggles

946
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 2: with it too, like coming from a place of wanting

947
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 2: to feed our kids healthy food and I mean all

948
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 2: that kind of like stuff. So I'm very grateful for

949
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 2: her because we can kind of like laugh about it.

950
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 2: She'll like text me and be like, I bought cheetahs today.

951
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 2: I feel like shit about it, but they're here like yeah.

952
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 2: So I go back and forth with And this is

953
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 2: the really difficult part about it, because I did.

954
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 3: Restrict my oldest child.

955
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 2: There there has been some patterns that he has developed,

956
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 2: you know, like wanting sweets all the time, constantly asking

957
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 2: like the more you restrict something, the more they're gonna

958
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: want it right, And then the more he wants it,

959
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 2: the more anxiety that gives me.

960
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 3: And it's just like this vicious sight cycle.

961
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: So of course, like coming from a concern of health

962
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: and like wanting them to be the healthiest.

963
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 3: Versions of themselves. But like my reception of that.

964
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 2: Has really shifted a lot from a lot of the

965
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 2: reading I've done and just conversations I've had with my

966
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 2: own therapist and research that I've been trying to do.

967
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 2: But it's been harder to let him habituate because like

968
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 2: what that really looks like and means is letting him

969
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 2: have the food that he wants and how much of

970
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 2: it and when he wants it. And that is very difficult.

971
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 2: And I will say that we're kind of on the

972
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: other side of it now and that he's not asking

973
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: for it as much, and even if I have in.

974
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 3: The house, he's not always choosing that. So like there

975
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 3: is I guess like it works, which is really cool. Yeah,

976
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 3: but it's really hard to trust.

977
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so there's this, you know, going back and

978
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,439
Speaker 2: forth with it a lot where I would like let

979
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 2: the leash go and then I would get so much

980
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 2: anxiety that I would like pull it back even harder

981
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 2: and I would like take it all away again.

982
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 3: And my friend and I talk about that all the time.

983
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:54,919
Speaker 2: It's like and I'm glad that we can talk about

984
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 2: that because like we can support each other through that,

985
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 2: and you know, yeah, we're really struggling with this today.

986
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 2: So now I just when I'm really uncomfortable, I just

987
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 2: try not to say anything and I just have to

988
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 2: like sit in it, and I'm uncomfortable all the time.

989
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 4: Yeah. So well, I think that's important to take note of,

990
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 4: is the discomfort is still there, but you're finding different

991
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 4: ways to soothe the discomfort. And it's not about controlling

992
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 4: what you're uncomfortable about. It's about soothing your discomfort. And

993
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 4: I also want to because I think this is an

994
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 4: important thing, and people might not. They might have like

995
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 4: glazed over it. But when you said habituate, if you

996
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 4: don't know what that is, I explain it like if

997
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 4: I have a fence in front of my driveway and

998
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 4: I run into it, but then I drive into my

999
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 4: driveway every single day, I'm eventually not going to notice

1000
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 4: that I knocked a fence post over because I'm gonna

1001
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 4: see it every day. The first time I do it,

1002
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 4: it's gonna be like, wait, oh no, that's ugly. But

1003
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 4: if I am driving to my house every single day,

1004
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 4: I'm not going to notice it anymore.

1005
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: It's not going to be that big of a deal.

1006
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 4: But if somebody comes to visit me and they drive

1007
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 4: into my driveway, they're gonna be like, wait, there's a

1008
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 4: there's your have a missing fence post, And I'm like, oh,

1009
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 4: that was there, and it's because it's it's no longer

1010
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,399
Speaker 4: this like jarring experience that I my attention is on.

1011
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 4: Just like if I never am allowed to have ice cream,

1012
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 4: then when I have ice cream, it's gonna be this

1013
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 4: huge jarring experience where I'm like, I have to have

1014
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 4: all this ice cream. But if I always can have

1015
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 4: ice cream and my it can be in my freezer.

1016
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 4: The ice cream can be in my freezer, or and

1017
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 4: not be talking to me when I'm like upstairs being like.

1018
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 1: You have ice cream in the freezer, eat it. It

1019
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: just becomes a part of your well, yes, I'm ice

1020
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:37,439
Speaker 1: cream eating. It's never like a sweet voice, it's never kind,

1021
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: it's never like, oh, I'm many, it's always you have

1022
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: to finish the whole thing. Yes, And that's really hard

1023
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 1: because in the beginning the voice is really loud and

1024
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: like the fence post is really ugly and you just

1025
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: want to fix it. But eventually it's like, oh, whatever,

1026
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: it's just part of my yard.

1027
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

1028
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 2: And I mean I've noticed my younger child doesn't have

1029
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 2: the same stuff. There was like a little bit of it,

1030
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 2: but like he definitely I was definitely less restricted with him.

1031
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 2: Kind of I kind of had to be because everything

1032
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 2: that Quinn was eating at the time he wanted. So yeah,

1033
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 2: just not having a third one, so wild wild West.

1034
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 4: Now it's so exciting. It was exciting for me over here.

1035
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 4: I'm not the one has to go through all of it,

1036
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 4: but it's pretty excited. Yeah, Well, thank you for having

1037
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 4: this conversation. If you guys have any questions, like normal,

1038
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 4: they can be for Kelly, they can be for me,

1039
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 4: they could be for the general public. But if you

1040
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 4: have any questions about anything, and specifically this conversation, you

1041
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 4: can send those to Catherine at you Need Therapy podcast

1042
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 4: dot com.

1043
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: You cannot find Kelly on social media.

1044
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 4: Because she's not there, but you can find us at

1045
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 4: you Therapy Podcasts at cat dot defada. And if you

1046
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 4: want to, you know, seek out a therapist for the

1047
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 4: first time and you live in Tennessee, you can follow

1048
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 4: us at Three Courts Therapy and that is my therapy

1049
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 4: practice that is in Nashville. Thank you for being honest,

1050
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 4: and I'm going to commit myself to acknowledging the next

1051
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 4: time I want to avoid you.

1052
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 3: Yes, please, yeah, you do.

1053
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: Please please tell me when you don't want to talk

1054
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 1: to me anymore.

1055
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 3: And I really appreciate it.

1056
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1057
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 4: And the the funny thing is it's about any hard

1058
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 4: conversation is once you acknowledge it. Now, if this happens again,

1059
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 4: I don't think it's going to be that difficult because

1060
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,800
Speaker 4: we've named the elephant in the room.

1061
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 3: Yes, so yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, I'm very happy for it.

1062
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I hope you guys have the day you

1063
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: need to have. I will be back on Wednesday, and

1064
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 1: that's all we got