1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physicians and blogger. On 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode sixty five, which is 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: first airing in late October. If the sound quality is 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: a little worse on this, we apologize. Hopefully it isn't. 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: We're using a different system this time. We had some 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: issues with our normal zen Casters, a software we use 15 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: to record, and we opened it up this morning it 16 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: was just not there. So we're still sorting that out 17 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,279 Speaker 1: what exactly happened. But we use Skype this time, which 18 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: Skype is a great tool as well. I use it 19 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: all the time for doing interviews and talking with people, 20 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: and so we're using the files from that and it 21 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: never fails when we have a guest. We are so 22 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: excited about interviewing, we wind up with these technical difficulties 23 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: as we have Kimrie Martin, who is a novelist, the 24 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 1: author of the book Queen of Hearts. She is an 25 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: emergency emergency medicine physician as well a mom of three kids. 26 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: So we're very much looking forward to that part of 27 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: today's episode. But before we get to that, I so, 28 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about it before in the Gretchen 29 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: Ruben tendency realm. I am an upholder. So typically if 30 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to say, if I say I'm going to 31 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: do something, it does get done. But you know, there's 32 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: a lot of to dos in life, and I will 33 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: say I tend to sometimes prioritize the urgent over the importance. 34 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: And it was important to both Laura and I that 35 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: we do as a survey that we talked about a 36 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: month or two ago, but it just hasn't it hasn't 37 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: come down to pipe, Well, I am going to turn 38 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: this into an urgency by mentioning on today's podcast because 39 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: I feel that by the time this, you know, the 40 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: goal is that with this podcast, the survey will be available, 41 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: so that will force us to have to put it 42 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: together and make sure that it comes to fruition. So yeah, 43 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: we're going to be asking you guys to contribute your 44 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: thoughts about our podcast thus far and what you'd like 45 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: and what you don't like, and recommendations, and you know, 46 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: if you've always wanted to submit a question, this will 47 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: be the time. I'm also wondering if I don't know 48 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: how much it costs, but you know, some people have 49 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: those like voicemail questions where people can talk. I'm going 50 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: to look into figuring out if we could do that. 51 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: I mean, actually it's easy as emailing us a sound clip. 52 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: I don't know I people are going to take the 53 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: time to do that, but you never know, because I 54 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: think it would be kind of cool to hear some 55 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 1: questions in the voice of our questioners. So anyway, that 56 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: is that is coming up. Should we do a little 57 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: teaser of some upcoming topic. Yeah, so we've got some 58 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: upcoming episodes that were excited about. Well, we we don't 59 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: have some of these books yet. We want to do 60 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: talking about the topics that I know people have asked 61 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: us about, things like single parenting, personal finance, hearing from 62 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: some men, which we are completely open to doing we 63 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: We've got a couple of fun things coming up on 64 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: Oh Kids Sleep, We're going to be talking about actually 65 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: that already came out. Sorry, we're recording at a different time. 66 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: We're to be doing a episode on planners because we 67 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: know that that was exciting. We've got one coming up 68 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: on emotional labor, big topic in the world, taking one, 69 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, we're going to be doing you know, 70 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: talking about professional firms the process of making partner at 71 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: those kind of places, and that's a that's a big 72 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: one coming up. We're talking about combining parenthood with a 73 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: serious illness, also a fascinating topic. So a lot of 74 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: good stuff. Hopefully people will keep listening and sharing this 75 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: podcast with their friends. Well, we are so excited to 76 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: have kim Marie Martin with us on the show this week. 77 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: This is Sarah. This was actually kind of my idea 78 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: because I have recently read kim Marie's major hit of 79 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: a novel, The Queen of Hearts, and I will tell 80 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: you the backstory. I read it and I didn't look 81 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: at all at her background and kim Marie, I was like, 82 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: this person knows medicine. Like it was very clear this 83 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: is not written by some somebody who wasn't in that world. 84 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: But I just thought maybe someone had done a lot 85 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: of research. And when I looked at the back, I 86 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: was astounded to see that you are actually an emergency 87 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: medicine physician and still practicing, or at least you were, 88 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: And I was just fascinated about that journey. So, and 89 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: I will tell you I loved your book. I devoured 90 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: it in like forty eight hours or something ridiculous. So, yeah, 91 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: we're really excited to have you on the show and 92 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: talk about your career trajectory and how you make things work. 93 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: I know you have three little children, and you know, 94 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: whatever you have, whatever wisdom you have to impart on 95 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: our listeners. I'm not sure I can offer wisdom, but 96 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: I'm happy to chat with you guys. Thank you for 97 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: having me. Yeah, so, why don't you tell us a 98 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: little bit about your career background. I mean, what led 99 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: you into madicine originally? Yeah, so I was kind of 100 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: a late bloomer in college and really didn't know what 101 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: I wanted to do. I've written a bunch of blog 102 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: posts about publishing and writing and medicine, and I think 103 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: in one of them I fessed up to originally being 104 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: attracted to the practice of medicine when I read about 105 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: it in a novel and there was this absolutely badass surgeon, 106 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: a woman, and I thought, well, I could do that. 107 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: And I was working on a senior thesis in college 108 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: for my psychology major, where I was in a hospital 109 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: interviewing families of children who had life threatening illnesses, and 110 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: I wound up being kind of interested in the medical aspects, 111 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: and so I doubled up on all the science courses 112 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: and got kind of sweaked into medical school the last minute. Wow, 113 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: So you did you end up taking a year off 114 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: between college and med school or did you you ended 115 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: up you actually were able to make it work and 116 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: went straight through. Yeah. No, I'm a I'm a scholastic machine. 117 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: When I wanted to be, I just worked really hard. 118 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: I love it. And then how did you choose emergency medicine? 119 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: And did you always know that you wanted to write? 120 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: Like were you thinking? And I know there's actually I 121 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: could think of at least one other author. Oh man, 122 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: I'll have to remember that you probably know of him. 123 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: He actually is also in North Carolinian and he was 124 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: friends with somebody that I knew when we lived there, 125 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: he's an er doctor. Anyway, did you think that that 126 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: would be a good mix because the shift work would 127 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: lend itself to kind of having other things to do 128 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: or did that evolve more organically? Oh, totally organically. So 129 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: the theme in my life is that I never seem 130 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: to have a clue what I'm doing, and the same 131 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: was true in medical school. I actually started in general 132 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: surgery because I loved operating. I loved the technicalities of 133 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: it and the intensity of it, and so I did 134 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: an internship in general surgery and really did like it. 135 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: But I decided to switch to emergency medicines. So that 136 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: did require me to take a year off, during which 137 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: time I moonlighted, and then I went back through the 138 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: match and wound up at Vanderbilt for emergency medicine. And 139 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: I love ER. I mean, I love the complexity of 140 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: it and the randomness and the you know, the opportunity 141 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: to just walk into a room and immediately make a 142 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: difference in someone's life right there really appealed to me. 143 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: That's awesome. I always feel like ER is so fun 144 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: From a diagnostic perspective, I mean, you guys, you guys 145 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: get the freshest cases because by the time they get 146 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: to someone like me, I'm a pediatric endocrinologist, it's like, 147 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: you know, yes, we're figuring out the details, but like, 148 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: for example, I don't get to diagnose diabetes anymore. I 149 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: kind of missed that. Not that I wish diabetes on anyone, 150 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: but like, I never get to see that initial scene 151 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: when someone comes in and doesn't know what's going on. 152 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: So I think you guys are really lucky from that perspective. 153 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: Are you continuing to work full time currently? I'm not 154 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: working full time currently in the er. I actually haven't. 155 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: I'm sort of lapsed. I haven't been in the er 156 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: for probably the past two years, and partly that is 157 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: because I could not manage to make it all work 158 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: with writing full time and practicing medicine full time and 159 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: having my family full time. So when I started the novel, 160 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: I was working full time, and originally I had no 161 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: idea whether I could write or not. I'd never written 162 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: anything before. Once it became clear that the novel would 163 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: be published, and especially once my publishers wanted a contract 164 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: for more books, I decided to shift careers. And around 165 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: that same time I had this really serendipitous, fortuitous thing happened, 166 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: which was someone offered me a job. I live in Charlotte, 167 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: North Carolina, which is a very financially oriented city where 168 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: the downtown is pretty much all big banks, and so 169 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: someone offered me a job in one of the big 170 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: skyscrapers downtown where there's an allergy clinic and the financial 171 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: people would come in to get their allergy shots without 172 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: having to leave downtown, and they just wanted an er 173 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: doctor on site in case anyone Anna relaxed. So I 174 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: was getting paid to step in a little room and 175 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: do nothing, and for the first time in my life, 176 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: I was wearing real clothes to work. I felt like 177 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: a grown up. I had my copy in my little 178 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,599 Speaker 1: brieface in my computer, so it was it was just 179 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,319 Speaker 1: such an awesome opportunity. I took it, and then that 180 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: allowed me to to finish the novel and get it published. 181 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: So you said you didn't amaze. Yeah, this is Laura. 182 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: You didn't know that because you hadn't written anything. You said, like, 183 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: what made you think, like, let me just start writing 184 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: a novel then? Or did you eat then by doing 185 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: you know, other other kinds of writing? First, no, I 186 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: did everything beast backwards. I started writing the novel with 187 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: no clue how to write a novel. But I think 188 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: the reason that I did it was because I love books. 189 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: I'm just the biggest book nerd. I love to read. 190 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: I have always read at least three books a week, 191 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: and authors of the people I admire, I just I 192 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: love the concept that you can have a voice that's 193 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: that's somewhat permanent, and you can, you know, debility to 194 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: write down things and share them with the world really 195 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: appealed to me. Mainly in my case, not out of 196 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: any big altruistic thematic desire to make a statement, but 197 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: more because I like to be entertained with books. But 198 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: I read everything. I mean, I read fiction, non fiction, 199 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: all genres. I read magazines and articles constantly, and once 200 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: I started writing, I was immediately hooked. I just I 201 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: knew I loved it. Well. I am totally impressed and inspired. 202 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: And I mean, have you found that this is a 203 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: common theme amongst physicians, because so I remember who the 204 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: other author was. It was Paul Austin, who was actually 205 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: also a North Carolina e air doctor. I think he 206 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: worked near Durham or you know, one of those hospitals 207 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: farther east and His was more of a memoir, but 208 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: there aren't that many. But I feel like there's a 209 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: lot with aspirations that I will, you know, admit that 210 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: I am one of them. I don't have a fiction 211 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: idea in me currently, but I still feel pulled to write. 212 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: Now I've done that via a blog, which has not been, 213 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: you know, part of my real career for the last 214 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: fourteen years. But at the same time, you know, now 215 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: I'm starting to wonder, and I know that there are 216 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: probably others like me. If I could do something like 217 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: you have done, maybe not quite on as large as scale, 218 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think I'm going to make the 219 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: kind of splash you did, which is really remarkable. But yeah, 220 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: what advice would you give to others, either in medicine 221 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: or maybe law or something else that might be interested 222 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: in pursuing writing as kind of a side thing and 223 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 1: maybe bringing some of the expertise from their work world 224 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: the way you did. Oh, I have so many thoughts 225 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: I might choke hold on. Well. First of all, there 226 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: are a lot of doctors who write. I mean, I 227 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: think that there are there's something inherent in the brains 228 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: of people who are somewhat scientific that also makes them creative. 229 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: I think you have to be you have to have 230 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: some degree of creativity to be a scientist or a 231 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: doctor of medicine. And so while there are not a 232 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: huge number of physicians who have published fiction, there are 233 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: a huge number of physicians who write. And I know 234 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: this because I'm in a bunch of groups with them. 235 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: I'm in one online Facebook group of just women doctors 236 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: who are also mothers who also write, and there are 237 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 1: one thousand of us. Wow. And as a matter of fact, 238 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: I got a call out of the blue, I think 239 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: last spring from a man who says that for many 240 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: years his CMME company has sponsored a conference it was 241 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: led by Tess S Garrettson and Michael Palmer for years 242 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: called Fiction Writing for Physicians. And I'm actually teaching it 243 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: this year or next year in Florida in January, and 244 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: I think they have a pretty good sign up rate. 245 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: Like there are there are many many physicians who want 246 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: to tackle writing. And when it comes to writing fiction, 247 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: you know, the absolutely ubiquitous advice that everyone gets is 248 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: right what you know? Right, I mean, you hear that, 249 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: write what you know. And for debut authors that's particularly 250 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: important because at least In my case, I didn't know 251 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: how to write, and so figuring out how to write 252 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: and learning a whole new topic would have been overwhelming. 253 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: But people are are people are drawn to the practice 254 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: of medicine. They're drawn to stories about that. You know, 255 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: it touches on all the big life or death, super intense, 256 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: highly dramatic things that make for good fiction. I fully 257 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: believe that I've been my husband and iety he's also 258 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: and we've constructed many One of our favorite sort of 259 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: joking things to do is construct ridiculous splotlines around things 260 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: related to our work, like I have this whole like 261 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 1: I treat some transgender patients, so I was like some 262 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: like bizarre transgender love triangle that takes place in it. 263 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: So okay, I'm glad I love that, But I'm actually 264 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: bringing you know you you did do that? How do 265 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: you from a patient? Obviously you can't share specific stories, 266 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: but what if you're sort of inspired by how do 267 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: you make sure that you know we're the line between 268 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: violating privacy, which obviously we never ever want to do 269 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: and ready about what you know? Have you ever struggled 270 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: with that? Not terribly, although I did. I did include 271 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: in my book a number of patient vignettes, some of 272 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: which were loosely inspired by things I'd seen or thought 273 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: i'd seen, or things i'd heard. And of course the 274 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: rule is you just cannot use anything that's recognizably a 275 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: specific person. I think if you want to be inspired 276 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: by the multitude of ridiculous and tragic and impactful and 277 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: funny things that you've seen, that's fine. You just can't. 278 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: You can't make it be anything that anyone would know 279 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: as a specific persons, the aspect of something without having 280 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: any Okay, that's helpful. Actually, that's helpful because man, I 281 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: got a lot of aspects and I did used to 282 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: actually when I was much younger, share more, not specifics 283 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: to patients, but more features. So I feel like I 284 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: have this treasure trove to go through some day. No, 285 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: that's that's great. Oh you do, you do? Your mind 286 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: is full of that stuff, trust me. Yeah. So hem Mary, 287 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: you know while you're managing that obviously you were starting 288 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: your novel while you were working as a physician in 289 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: the er, and you also have three young kids. Where 290 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: did those come into the whole life trajectory of Henry? 291 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: When did you wind up having them? Oh? Okay, so well. 292 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: First of all, I'll say my kids were terrific fodder 293 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: for the book. They always are like that. Yes, I mean, 294 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: if you have kids, milk fuzzle suckers for everything they 295 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: say and do, because it's funny. So I have three, 296 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: they're currently fourteen, twelve, and eighth, and I guess, you know, 297 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: like a lot of doctors, I kind of had mine 298 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: on the late side. I think I was. I was 299 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: thirty two when my oldest was born. Oh, now you 300 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: know how old I am. I to say that while 301 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: we're like poppies because I have the exact same age 302 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: spacing and started at the exact same time. So I 303 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: write now six four and nine months and I'm thirty 304 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: eight years old, so like we're mirrors. Okay, keep going. Yeah, 305 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: and you know what, that was a pretty good way 306 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: to do it. My youngest is six years younger than 307 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: my oldest and four years younger than my middle and 308 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: that worked out really great because the big two were 309 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: in school. Like it's the it's the baby toddler combo. 310 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: That's so deadly. I think totally agree. I've said that 311 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: that's so funny. Yes, and I like my spacing too. Yeah, 312 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: it's being like, sorry, go ahead, Oh, I was just 313 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: going to say. You know, in terms of work life balance, 314 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: I think I am no role model, because that's the 315 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: question I probably get more than any others. You know, 316 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: how do you do it with the kids in the 317 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: book and the working And the truth is I really 318 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: do everything kind of crappy, and I forget stuff all 319 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 1: the time, and I'm lucky enough to be able to 320 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: hire help. I look at these other writers, most of 321 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: whom are struggling financially because for some reason, the world 322 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: does not financially reward creativity in the manner that I 323 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: wish that it would. So most writers are really struggling. 324 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: And I try to outsource everything I can that isn't 325 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: essential to be me, and I still struggle. One of 326 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: the more creative things you outsource, though, that buys you time. 327 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: Our listeners are always looking for stuff like that. Oh well, 328 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: there's nothing creative at all about it. But I outsource 329 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: cleaning because I think at that and a lot of 330 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: times we just live in health. I'll be honest, there's 331 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: a lot of times I just can't get it all done. 332 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: I do. I mean, the other thing with three kids 333 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: is I hire people to help drive us around to 334 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: all the stuff. You know, we're always trying to get 335 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: to soccer at the same time as gymnastics, at the 336 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: same time as field hockey, as the same time as lacrosse, 337 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: and at the same time that I have a meeting. 338 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 1: And I try to do a lot of volunteering too, 339 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: and so sort of cloning myself. I really do rely 340 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: on other people, other mothers to help me or I 341 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: hire someone. Yeah, and we're definitely big proponents of that, 342 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: you know, on the podcast, and I like hoy say, 343 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: you know, I don't you don't do everything crappy. You 344 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: probably do the things that are not priorities for you, 345 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: that is strongly, but you do many you know the 346 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: important things very well. And that's you know, a great lesson. 347 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,959 Speaker 1: And you're right, it is unfortunate that not everyone can 348 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: always outsource the way they want to, especially at the 349 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 1: start of their careers. But it's you know, it's it's 350 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: like a double edged sword because if you couldn't have outsource, 351 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: then you might not have been able to accomplish what 352 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: you accomplished. So it's always a difficult conundrum there sometimes. Yeah, 353 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: And I think that's a good point to that writing 354 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, it'd be great to start writing when 355 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: you're young, and many people do it, but for me, 356 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: I was too much. I was too much of an 357 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: idiot to right when I was young, and bet I 358 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: didn't get the experience that I needed for my first 359 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: novel until i'd really live a lot longer. So I 360 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: think starting when you're I'm sure is hell. I'm not 361 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: going to refer to myself as middle aged because I 362 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: don't like that, but I think starting when you're not 363 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: super young is good. That's interesting. And again, you know, 364 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: sometimes we get stuck in a groove, right You're doing 365 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: one thing and there seems to be one logical path. 366 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: But I think it's important for even those of us 367 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 1: who are in careers where there is one traditional trajectory 368 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: that can be successful, to remember that. You know, it's 369 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: not necessarily the only trajectory, and you may go back 370 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: to medicine sometime more fully, or you may not. I 371 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: don't know if you have ideas or are you just 372 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: trying not to make clients. I didn't really intend to leave, 373 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: but my agent secured another two book contract for me 374 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: after my first novel was published, and at that point 375 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: I kind of had to make a decision either I 376 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: wanted to make a serious go of writing, in which 377 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: case it meant accepting this contract. Because it's my publishers 378 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: is Pinguin Random House, They're the world's biggest publisher. It's 379 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: not likely that I'm going to find a better opportunity 380 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: than what I already have. But I could not commit 381 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: to that time frame. You know, two more books, two 382 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: more medical fiction books, and still work in the er. 383 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: So I decided to put it on hold for a 384 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: couple of years and see what happens with the novels, 385 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: and then I would love to go back. I do 386 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: really miss it. I loved my job. Yeah, So what 387 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: does a day in the life look for you right now? 388 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: Because obviously writing is sometimes one of those things that's 389 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: difficult to do as a day job, in that it's 390 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: somewhat nebulous in terms of, well, I have a book 391 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: due in let's say eight months, but you know, eight months, 392 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: what am I doing up till that point? So I'm 393 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: curious how you structure your days now. Well, I start 394 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 1: off with a big festival of dysfunction, which is getting 395 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: all the children up and dressed and bed and out 396 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: of the house. And none of us like that. But 397 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: once that, once they are gone, then I really buckle 398 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: down to work. And that means the summers are not 399 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 1: very productive for me work wise, but I do try 400 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: to do some form of exercise for half an hour 401 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: in the morning, and you know, I inhale my coffee 402 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: and then I go up to the computer and I 403 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: start writing. But that being said, there is so much 404 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: involved in publishing that is not sitting there writing. I 405 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: was really astonished at how phenomenally time consuming it is. 406 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: When my book came out first, all I did a 407 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: lot of travel to promote the book. I did a 408 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: slew of interviews, more than I can possibly remember, podcasts 409 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: like this one, and radio interviews and television interviews and 410 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: blogger interviews and newspapers and just so much written stuff. 411 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: And there's also there's a huge element of self promotion 412 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: in writing. You know, I wish it was that the 413 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: publisher did everything, but they really expect the authors to 414 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: do a lot of their own promotions. So you know, 415 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: they gave me a forty page document or actually I 416 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: guess my agent did a forty page document on social 417 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 1: media and websites and you know, all that kind of thing, 418 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: and all that takes a lot of time. My website 419 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: takes a lot of time to maintain. And I also 420 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: do a lot of other writing now. I write opinion articles, 421 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 1: and I blogged for a year about the process of 422 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: publishing and what the publishing industry is like, and you know, 423 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: I write articles for websites, sometimes medical, sometimes on writing, 424 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: and all that stuff takes a lot of time. So 425 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: I can focus pretty intensely for a few hours, and 426 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: then I need a break, and then I get back 427 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: into it, and then the kids are home from school 428 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: and my brain is fried, and I do nothing else. 429 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: Do you set yourself like a word target per day 430 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: or per week as you're as you're working through these 431 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: these novels. No, I don't. And that relates to kind 432 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: of the peculiarity of the writing process, which is almost 433 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: all writers divide themselves into two categories. That you're either 434 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: a plotter where you outline and you know ahead of 435 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: time what you're going to write, or you're a pants, 436 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: seat of your pants person and you have no clue 437 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: what you're going to write. And that is me, and 438 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: so I wind up writing a huge amount of stuff 439 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: that gets cut or that needs to be revised or 440 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: that sends me off in a totally different direction. And 441 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: and so it's not for me, it's not so much 442 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: about word count as it is making some kind of 443 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: coherent progress in the you know, Giant Disaster that's my 444 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: current manuscript. Because we're like, if you've sat there for 445 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: some amount of time and you've put a bunch of 446 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: stuff on the page to work on later, then that's 447 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: been a successful day, not like, oh, I did chapter 448 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: you know, one segment B or something like that. Yeah, 449 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: And sometimes I just spend all day going back and 450 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: rewriting what I've already written as I get a more 451 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: clear sense of where I'm going. Well, I mean, that's 452 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: so it's so interesting to hear that, because, I mean, 453 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: your book felt incredibly cohesive, and your characters were very 454 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, they were very real and very consistent throughout. 455 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: So despite what you're saying, you obviously did a great 456 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: job kind of pulling it all together, because I wouldn't 457 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: get necessarily I took a lot of revision. I was 458 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: gonna say, I think I read somewhere that you had 459 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: like two hundred thousand words that you cut down to 460 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand or something like that. I mean that 461 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: may have been an exaggeration, but it was that roughly 462 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: what happened with Queint of Hearts. Yeah, I probably went 463 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: through dozens of drafts, and then when I signed with 464 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: the publisher, they actually, as a condition of them acquiring 465 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: the book, they actually requested me to rewrite pretty much 466 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: the entire second half of the book with a different 467 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: plot line. So that changed almost everything in the book. 468 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: And then I tend to be Yeah, I'm a word nerd. 469 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: I like I like complex sentence structure and interesting vocabulary, 470 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: and so my poor editor had to cut down a lot. 471 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: That's so fascinating though, that the plot was different when 472 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: when it was acquired. Yeah, we allowed to know. Am 473 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 1: I allowed to know the alternate plot line? Because if 474 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 1: anybody's read the book, I'm sure they are dying to know. Yeah, 475 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,959 Speaker 1: I keep thinking, I'm what I might do is someday 476 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: publish some of the excised chapters on my website. But 477 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: the original plot, First of all, Emma was not quite 478 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: she really got thrown under the bus in the second draft. Yes, 479 00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: and the original version, my original original VERSI and had 480 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: Zadie's husband as a point of view character. He was 481 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: a much bigger, more pivotal character. There was an incident 482 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: that happened in his past before he and Zadie were 483 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: married that kind of drove the plot line, and that 484 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 1: was a major thing that got cut out. Zadie's family 485 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 1: in Kentucky had bigger parts, you know, and all that 486 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: completely went by the wayside in the original version. Things 487 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: that happened to Emma and the Ore did not happen, 488 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: and that I don't want to say too much in Somebodyska, 489 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: but yeah, my publisher really wanted me to write some 490 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: medical things that were so hard to write. Like I 491 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: just was cringing the entire time I was doing those 492 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: image chapters because I you know, I empathized so deeply 493 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: with her when the you know, the bad thing happened 494 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: in the hospital. Also, her husband was the best character. 495 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: I mean that one of the best. I loved him. 496 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,479 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I loved him too. Yeah, he was one 497 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 1: of my fas. I really really regretted that he is 498 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: not real for real. Well, it's just interesting to hear, 499 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: because I know we have this idea of books being 500 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: what they are and emerge from I don't know, like 501 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: divine cast down and then carved on stone or something 502 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: like that. But it's very much an organic process and 503 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: it's always about, well, we have this idea, but it 504 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 1: has to be marketable to do. And part of the 505 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: marketing is, you know that there needs to be a 506 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: strong central character and sometimes it needs to be specifically 507 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: aimed at a demographic and so if there's too much 508 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: from a character and another demographic, that character needs to go. 509 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: And yeah, the business of publishing is itself very fascinating. 510 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: So somehow much you guys both do that is not 511 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: the writing part, because you're right from an outsider, we 512 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 1: just think, oh, you know, like you sit it there, 513 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 1: You sit there and you write and then you like 514 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: forward it someone and you edit it and that's it. 515 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: But you know, now I've learned there's so much other stuff. Yeah, 516 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: we're just getting the world to care about your book, 517 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: which is very was saying like her forty page document 518 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: on social media. Oh yeah, it's difficult. How do you 519 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: feel about that stuff, Tomma? Was it hard to be like, 520 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: you know, my book is awesome, you should read it, 521 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: when when that's not obviously what you were traded in 522 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: your life to do. Oh yeah, I got really sick 523 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: of myself around the time that the book was published, 524 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: because I mean, I've really always lived in this little 525 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: cave of obscurity and I've never had any kind of 526 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: spotlight shined on to me. And while on the one hand, 527 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: I was extremely grateful that anyone cared about the book, 528 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 1: on the other hand, I was like, I am boring 529 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: myself to death, Like I don't want to hear another 530 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: word about myself. I'm sick of talking about myself. It's 531 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: hard to be self promoted all the time, especially for women. 532 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: We are not inherently predisposed toward that a lot of 533 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: the time, and I don't know, it did feel odd. 534 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: But on the other and I'm kind of a social 535 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: person and I loved meeting people online like that part 536 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: has been really cool. I feel like I had this 537 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: big network of you know, book nerd friends all over 538 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: the globe. Now, I started this campaign on Instagram to 539 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: have people take pictures of my book cover because it's 540 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: so pretty and I literally have all seven continents now 541 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: and dozens and dozens of countries and you and photograph 542 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: your book. Yeah, so that happened. There's an er doctor 543 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: on Murders Station that one of my friends knew and 544 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: asked if they would take the picture, which was just awesome, 545 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: like so nice that that is amazing. Well, I would say, 546 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: you know, there's that fine line of self promotion where 547 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: someone starts to feel over the top, and Kim, Marie 548 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: and Laura, neither of you have ever come close to 549 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: that line. I follow you both on Instagram, so you 550 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: can both two your horns more and they'll be fine. 551 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: Son'll worry about it. This is awesome. Yeah, Sarah, do 552 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: you have any more questions for for hem Mary? No. 553 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: I am super inspired and I am excited to see 554 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: what she comes out with next. I will pre order 555 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: it whatever it is. Whatever it is, and what kind 556 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: of timeline are we looking at? Himriy, When do you 557 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: think the next novel will be out? So, if all 558 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: can swill, it'll be early twenty twenty for the next one, 559 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: and then early twenty twenty one for the one following that. 560 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: Brilliant Well, everyone market on your calendars now. The one 561 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: wonderful thing about our listeners is that we are planners. 562 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: There's probably people who have their twenty twenty calendar already 563 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: so they can put it down. Yeah, and so the 564 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: next one I'll just tell you quickly. Oh yeah, the 565 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: main character of the next book is a minor character 566 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: from The Queen of Hearts, one of the med school 567 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: friends named Georgia, and she's a urologist in Charleston. Oh 568 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: I remember that. Okay, that's very exciting. Oh good, So 569 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: you can somehow you can somehow bring back Emma's husband 570 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: in somehow. Oh I haven't yet, but that's a great idea. 571 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: I haven't had enough of. So okay, all right, So 572 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: we are going to invite you to partake in our 573 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: love of the Week segment, which we do every week 574 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: on our podcast, and just a reminder, can be anything. 575 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: Can we music, a book, a podcast, a item of food, 576 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: or like some general concept anything, And I will go first. Actually, Laura, 577 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to switch my loves a week because I realized, 578 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: why not include my medical author book on this episode 579 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: rather than my other episode. I just finished a tool 580 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: Wan Days Being Mortal, so kind of not the same 581 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: as The Queen of Arts, but I thought it was 582 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: a great read. I actually we started a book club 583 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: for our residents and that was the assigned book and 584 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: I had until Friday to read it and it went 585 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: actually very quickly. It's not a terribly long book, and 586 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: it's all about kind of the end of life and 587 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: how we do how we do it wrong in some ways, 588 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: and how we might make it better. That's a great one. Yeah, 589 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: well mine is not like that at all. We're recording 590 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: this and falling up here in the north. You know, 591 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: things start getting chilly in the morning. And when we 592 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: renovated our bathroom last spring, we decided to put in 593 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: heated floors and love that the most luxurious thing ever 594 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: to get up and walk onto a nice, toasty bathroom floor, 595 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: although it took quite a bit of work because you know, 596 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: obviously they had to replace the whole floor, which they 597 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: were going to do anyway. But then there's a timer 598 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: so that it goes that you know when you're waking 599 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: up in the morning that it will be warm when 600 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: you wake up. But for a while the timer wasn't working, 601 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: and so it was losing like eight minutes a day, 602 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: which for the first two days doesn't matter so much, 603 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: but by like day five, you're forty minutes off when 604 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: you wanted your floor to be hot. So we obviously 605 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: had to get that get that switched. But it's been great, 606 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: so That's that's my love of the week. All right, 607 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: Kim Marie, how about you? Okay? I know I was 608 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: supposed to have thought about this, and I'm gonna have 609 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: this true to form. Okay. I got to the first 610 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: is that I am getting a book in the mail 611 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: today that I'm excited about. Is Michael Lewis's new book 612 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,719 Speaker 1: is out. Do you guys know who he is? I 613 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: have not read him. Oh, he's fantastic. He writes a 614 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: lot of narrative nonfiction and I'm sure you've heard of 615 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: some of it The blind Side and My Boy. He 616 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: started off writing a lot of financial nonfiction, but he 617 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: writes on a lot of different topics and he's just 618 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: an incredibly gifted writer. So I'm excited about that. His 619 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 1: new book is called The Fifth Risk. And then my 620 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: other thing I'm excited about is my husband and I 621 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: are planning a trip with the kids to New Orleans 622 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: for New Year's Eve and we're friends. My husband's a 623 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: sports medicine guy, and we're friends with the doctor for 624 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: the Saints, and we're big Panthers fans since we live 625 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: in Charlotte and the Saints are playing the Panthers, and 626 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: we're going to go to the game and run around 627 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: on the field and show our kids the city. And 628 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: it just sounds so much fun. I can't wait. Does 629 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: sound fun? Great exciting upcoming adventure? Well cool? Well, thank 630 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: you so much Kimrie for joining us. We really appreciate it. Well, 631 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. I'm really honored that you asked me. Oh, 632 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: our listeners are going to love it. Thank you again. 633 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: Our Q and A for this episode is somewhat timely 634 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,800 Speaker 1: because it is about to begin that lovely wintry season 635 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: filled with viruses, it's not and all that good stuff. 636 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: So one of our listeners sent this question via Instagram. 637 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: How do you keep your kids healthy during the winter, 638 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: and if not, how do you manage sick days? Now, 639 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: we did I dress some of this before, but I 640 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: have I guess a little more to add. Do you 641 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: want to go first? Yeah? Well, I mean, we hope 642 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: to keep kids healthy during the winter, but it's sort 643 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: of inevitable that they won't. This is the reality of 644 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: kids and winter. And even if they somehow managed to 645 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: stay healthy the entire winter, you might have snow days 646 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: or other such things along those lines. So consider this 647 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: your public service announcement to think about your backup plans, 648 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 1: what are you going to do when stuff goes wrong 649 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,919 Speaker 1: this winter? Because it's you know, anyone can manage time 650 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 1: that goes perfectly. It's it's the people who managed to 651 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: stay productive and keep life moving along when things don't 652 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: go as planned who are the real time masters. And 653 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: in terms of keeping kids healthy, I'm a big fan 654 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: of hand sanitizer. I mean we keep it everywhere. Like 655 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: kids have little bags of hands bottles of hand sanitizer 656 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: on their backpack so they can use it, you know 657 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: at any point. I'm not sure they always do, but 658 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: you know, definitely with my little boys, I'm always you know, 659 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: did you wash your hands after going to the bathroom? 660 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: Is they seem less hardware to do that? So lots 661 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: of lots of that. But honestly, I mean one of 662 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: the reasons we wound up hiring a nanny for the 663 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: first time many years ago, our oldest child went to 664 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: daycare and the first winter, I think there's like five 665 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: weeks of illness that he could not go to daycare, 666 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: and so that's really hard to observe. It's hard to 667 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: for me to absorb it as a self employed individual, 668 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine if I was, you know, working 669 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: for a company, how I do that? So to think 670 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: about that right, Like, you know, obviously having a caregiver 671 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: in your home is good, that makes sense if you 672 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: have young kids. I think what people definitely get tripped 673 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 1: up on is when their kids are in school, because 674 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: then their their childcare solution probably doesn't go for the 675 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 1: whole day and isn't instantly available for the whole day. 676 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: You might have an afternoon sitter or something like that. 677 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: So then the question is, well, what do you do 678 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: when the kids are homesick? So if one party, if 679 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: you've got two parents, has an option to occasionally work 680 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: from home or if that is something that you can 681 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: negotiate for, that is a real lifesaver, if you know. 682 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: I would say, if it always winds up being the 683 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: same person, then the party who does go into the 684 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: office needs to work out a way for the other 685 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 1: person to have some backup time, whether that's that they 686 00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 1: cover the evenings, the other person comes home from work 687 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: early to a party who's been tip caring for the 688 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: sick kid, get some time to do whatever, covering the weekends, 689 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: et cetera. But that's something that you definitely want to 690 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: think about as well. Yeah, depending on where you live, 691 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: there are emergency babysitting services that can be incredibly helpful 692 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: in this situation. And I have now actually had the 693 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: pleasure of using one. It's actually in multiple cities, so 694 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,359 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I can't your mileage may vary. 695 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: But if the one I use was called the Babysitting Company, 696 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: and I believe it's in Miami, New York, maybe Philadelphia 697 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: and California anyway, where you can call with thirty to 698 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: sixteen minutes notice and say like, I need emergency care giving, 699 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: and that includes they will up charge you for a 700 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: sick child, but they'll do it and they'll send someone 701 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: to your house. And yes, it can be expensive for 702 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: that day, but you know, if it's that versus hiring someone, 703 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: it's certainly going to be the cheaper option. I guess 704 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: unless you spend your kids spends five weeks out of daycare, Laura, 705 00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: then yeah, it might be a watch. Yeah, well, you 706 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: can also have a backup person yourself too, I mean, 707 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,320 Speaker 1: because I think some people might be you know, I 708 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: would assume it's the same. It's like hiring at hotels 709 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 1: that are like they screen these people. They work with 710 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: these people. These are you know, sitters that they've been 711 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: you know, been sending out on jobs for years and 712 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: and so they know them and you know you can 713 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: rely on that. But if you're concerned about that, I mean, 714 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:26,239 Speaker 1: obviously you can have a backup option. You just need 715 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 1: to figure out how you're going to make that work. 716 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,479 Speaker 1: Where maybe it's a neighbor who's willing, you know, wants 717 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: to earn some extra money, or an extended family member 718 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: or you know, if you do have a portfolio of 719 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: sitters as we call it, and you have some people 720 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: who do occasionally have some last minutes availability, I mean, 721 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: you can just test the group and see if you know, 722 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: somebody responds. Whoever responds first gets the gig if they're 723 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: up for it. But but yeah, figure out, you know, 724 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,240 Speaker 1: what can go wrong and what you can do. Something 725 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 1: like a college student can be really helpful because you know, 726 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: they sometimes update and if you have a group and 727 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: if you're if you're paying enough, you could probably get 728 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 1: someone interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I mean i'd say obviously this 729 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: is you know, if a kid is really really sick 730 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 1: and you know you need the parent dealing with them 731 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,439 Speaker 1: and dealing with the doctor, visits and things like that. 732 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: That's sort of a separate issue. We're more talking about 733 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: like the kid you know has diary or something you 734 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 1: can't go to daycare or is kind of fever, and 735 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: it's yeah, yeah, that it's not a serious fever, but 736 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: it's such that you can't go to school, but not 737 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 1: such that they need parents around them twenty four to 738 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: seven tending, you know, for that. So that could happen 739 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 1: to you, and figure out what to do with serious 740 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: illnesses as well, but that's sort of more something you 741 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: know that you would be taking a sick day and 742 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: dealing with. So all right, well, this has been Best 743 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 1: of Both Worlds Episode sixty five. We've been talking with 744 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: novelist kem Marie Martin about her life, her background to 745 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: being a physician transitioning into novelist, and we'll be back 746 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 1: next week with more on making work in life fits together. 747 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 748 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, 749 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 750 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: This has been the Best of Both Worlds podcasts. Please 751 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,800 Speaker 1: join us next time for more on making work and 752 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,040 Speaker 1: life work together.