1 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to What Goes Up, a weekly markets podcast. 2 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: My name is Mike Reagan. I'm a senior editor at Bloomberg. 3 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 2: Numble Down, a hare across asset reporter with Bloomberg. 4 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: And this week on the show, well, as China heads 5 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: into its Golden Week holiday, there won't be much celebrating 6 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: in the real estate sector. Chinese property stocks are trading 7 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: near the lowest level since two thy and eleven, and 8 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: concerns are growing about more defaults among developers. How did 9 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: the housing market in the world's second largest economy get 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: so out of whack and what will it take to 11 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: fix it and help Chinese stocks catch a bit again. 12 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: We'll get into it with a fund manager who focuses 13 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: on China and emerging markets. But first a programming note, Well, 14 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: we've been going strong for four and a half years, 15 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: but What Goes Up will be going on hiatus after 16 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: this episode, as the Bloomberg podcast team works on some 17 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: exciting news shows, so keep an ear out for them, 18 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: and as always, tweet to us at the handle at 19 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: podcasts on x so let us know what you think 20 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: of the shows. Well, Dona, is it still tweeting now 21 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: that the thing's called. 22 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 2: X does anybody? Does anybody even call it X? 23 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: Elon? 24 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: Does Elon? But who else? 25 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 3: You know? 26 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: I never say, like, let me check my ex app. 27 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: But do you X a post? Do you X a post? 28 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 3: Yeah? 29 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: Huh, I haven't heard. 30 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: You wouldn't have the answers. I thought you'd have the answer. 31 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: I'm not a hip millennial, but our guests this week 32 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: he might be active on X slash Twitter. I'm not sure, 33 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 2: but he's definitely been on the podcast before and I'm 34 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: happy to welcome him back. It's Jason Sue, chief investment 35 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: officer at Rilliant Global Advisors. Jason, thank you so much 36 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 2: for joining us, super glad. I wanted to start out 37 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: with asking you to tell us a bit about yourself 38 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 2: because you have a very interesting background having worked with 39 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: Rob are Not in the past, and you guys have, 40 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 2: as Mike said, we're going to be focusing on internationally 41 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: in this episode, so you guys have a presence in 42 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 2: a lot of places around the globe. So tell us 43 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: a bit about yourself. 44 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 3: Well, as you mentioned, you know, I started research affiliates 45 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 3: with Rob or Not. That's nearly twenty years ago now. 46 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 3: I spun out in twenty sixteen, to focus primarily on 47 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 3: emerging markets, and of course, you know, when you think 48 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 3: about emerging markets, you can't ignore China's a lot of 49 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 3: my research, a lot of you know, our qual models 50 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 3: are built to create alpha in China. You know, today 51 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 3: we got ETFs in the US that gets your exposure 52 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 3: to China, to EMX China and actually more broadly the 53 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 3: global markets. Basically just tells you the power of the 54 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 3: quantitative methods when it comes to alpha generation across the globe. 55 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 3: You know, today I am talking to everyone from Dubai 56 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 3: and that's because the Middle East has a almost opposite 57 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 3: of the US as a meaningful fascination, and it's probably 58 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 3: from a strategic allocation perspective, very overweight China. 59 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 4: So that's why I'm out here. 60 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: That might be our first guest tuning in from Dubai. 61 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: That's a that's a first for us. 62 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: Well, Donna, yeah, I've never been over there. So I 63 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: was asking Jason before we started taping, like what's it like, 64 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 2: and he said it's very humid, which I didn't expect. 65 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: Well, Jason, let's get into this whole problems with the property, 66 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: real estate sector in China. I mean, you know, my 67 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: sort of Layman's understanding of it is that China's developers 68 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: just built entirely, way too many apartments than what's really needed. 69 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: You know, how did that happen? And how bad is it? 70 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: Do you think the debt problems of the developers who 71 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: are having trouble selling all these apartments? 72 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, So when you think about kind of apartments in China, right, 73 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 3: if we think about it from kind of the US perspective, 74 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 3: which is, well, you buy it to either live in 75 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 3: it or you rent it out to collect the yield, 76 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 3: then you're absolutely right that there is an overbuilding of 77 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 3: apartments in China because there are lots and lots of 78 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 3: apartments that are owned but not lived in and not rented, 79 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 3: so it's very unproductive. But if you're a Chinese, and 80 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 3: I'll give you kind of a funny anecdote, So I 81 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 3: bought a few apartments in China very early on, so 82 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 3: they're quite cheap at the time, and I go, oh, 83 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 3: you know, they're kind of empty, so let me rent 84 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 3: it out. When people realize that, they kind of look 85 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 3: at me funny and go, Jason, are you in financial trouble? 86 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 3: Why would you rent out your place to someone else 87 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 3: for money. So Chinese don't think of apartment as like 88 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: a fixing cume, right, that produces a income for you. 89 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 3: They think of it more like I would say how 90 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 3: Indians think of gold, right. So it's more of a 91 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 3: store of value. So they're perfectly happy holding an apartment, 92 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 3: leaving it empty, believing it holds value. Does it always 93 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 3: go up, frankly doesn't enter into their psyche. Now it's 94 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 3: been lucky that's been going up. But they really see 95 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 3: it as a store value, right, just something that's solid 96 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 3: they can look at, they can point to, and oftentimes 97 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 3: they brag about. From that perspective, there's an enormous demand 98 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: when it comes to the Chinese appetite to buy property, 99 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 3: and that demand is purely almost like collecting, right. It 100 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 3: is not for consumption and it is not for investing. 101 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 3: So I think that's just sort of useful to understand that. 102 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 3: And I guess you know your question about well, you know, 103 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 3: are the developers in trouble because maybe the Chinese are 104 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 3: cooling off on their preference the whole you know, wealth 105 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 3: in real estate. I would say the Chinese developers are 106 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 3: mostly in trouble, not because somehow Chinese investors I think 107 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 3: what's more an issue is a lot of them have 108 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 3: simply geared up way too hot. Your country garden you're China, 109 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 3: evergraam that that went. 110 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 4: Under last year. 111 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 3: They simply borrow way too much debt and they were 112 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 3: hoarding land and hoarding apartments and not selling them fast 113 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 3: enough to pay down the debt. They're just borrowing more 114 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 3: to hoar more land. And I think they just irritated 115 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 3: Beijing a little too much. And I would say these 116 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 3: are not a real state related triggering a bankruptcy, but 117 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 3: almost a policy engineered bankruptcy target at real state developers 118 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 3: that have simply become two gear to liver it up. Yeah. 119 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about that because there's always 120 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: sort of this assumption in the West that Beijing can 121 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: come to the rescue anytime it wants for a problem 122 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: like this. I don't know how true that is, but 123 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: in this case, you know, they have done some things 124 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: on the margin to try to show up the housing market, 125 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: that eased some of the mortgage restrictions. They're lowering the 126 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: reserve requirements for the banks. Is that all they can do? 127 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: I mean, to your point, are they actually really holding 128 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: off on sort of a Big bazooka fix for this 129 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: because they do want to ring some of that excess 130 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: leverage out of the market. Now, how do you view 131 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: the policy response to this at what the goals of 132 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: it are? 133 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was a In fact, I think the government 134 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 3: doesn't think right now there is a meaningful problem in 135 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 3: a real estate sector other than you know, consumers seem 136 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 3: to be disappointed about how real estate is performing and 137 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 3: therefore that lack of confidence maybe causing them to not consume. 138 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 3: So the government realized, ah, you know, the most reliable 139 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 3: channel for wealth effect, which is basically real estate appreciating 140 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 3: that has coused household to be willing to increase consumption. 141 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 3: That channel has temporarily gone away, So you know, they 142 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 3: recognize that. But of course, the bigger problem they're trying 143 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 3: to contain originally was they didn't want real estate price 144 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 3: to get more expensive because it wasn't a social I mean, 145 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 3: it wasn't becoming a financial problem. It's becoming a social problem. Right, 146 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 3: homes are too expensive for you hen people to buy. 147 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 3: But from a financial problem perspective, if you look at 148 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 3: the household sector, right, Chinese household are not levered when 149 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 3: it comes to real estate if the allo pers are 150 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 3: very levered, but the household which is more important, right, 151 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,119 Speaker 3: they're not lever because they can buy their first home 152 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 3: with money down and they paid quite a bit of 153 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 3: money down and they generally have to sort of have 154 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 3: enough income to cover the payment. If they want to 155 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 3: buy a second house, it's got to be all cash, right, 156 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 3: So most Chinese, and if you live next to the 157 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 3: Chinese in your neighborhood, you realize they buy real estate 158 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 3: all cash. And that's how they buy real estate in 159 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 3: China as well, So you don't run into financial problem 160 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 3: when you buy. 161 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 4: Real estate all cash. 162 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 3: It might be a bad investment, right, You might buy 163 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 3: something it never goes up, right, It has no yield 164 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 3: if you don't rent it, so it might not be 165 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 3: a great investment, but doesn't become a financial crisis. So 166 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 3: I think the government's okay with where real estate is today, right, 167 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 3: price isn't going up that bankruptcy you're seeing a developer 168 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 3: sector is very engineered. You know, on the household side, 169 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 3: there's not a balance sheet crisis because they're not buying 170 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 3: real estate on levers, so they really don't think there's 171 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 3: a meaningful problem there. 172 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 4: Now. 173 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 3: Of course they wish the Chinese household would have found 174 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 3: like another store of value or another asset that's more 175 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 3: productive that the government could sort of help manage and 176 00:08:59,520 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 3: create a wealth. 177 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 4: They're hoping the stock market can be. 178 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 3: That, but you know, it remains to be seen if 179 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 3: they can get all of that money, that unproductive money 180 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 3: into in real estate into the more productive long term 181 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 3: investment in stock market. 182 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 2: So say more about the consumer and the state of 183 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 2: the Chinese consumer, is that another facet that's under pressure 184 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 2: right now in China. 185 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 3: I think that is the biggest problem right the consumers 186 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 3: China and Bay I guess Paging specifically has been hoping 187 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 3: that China wouldn't just be explore oriented economy where everyone 188 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 3: just works so really hard in the factory and shook 189 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 3: everything overseas and then you know, never spend money. Right. 190 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 3: That's been a bit of a sort of traditional, uh, 191 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 3: you know, Chinese mentality when it comes to working excessively, 192 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 3: saving excessively, and not consuming enough. So it's too dependent 193 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 3: on our export. So gradually domestic consumptions has actually picked 194 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 3: up quite a bit more, seeing GDP going from you know, 195 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 3: thirty six percent export today only about sixteen percent export. 196 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 3: So consumption has sort of picked up, but more recently 197 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 3: consumption gone fairly flat. And part of that was COVID, Right. 198 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 3: I mean, when Americans came out of COVID, we go, yes, 199 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 3: we saved up money. We haven't been spending money, so 200 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 3: let's go spend money. Right, the rebnge spending. When Chinese 201 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 3: got at COVID, they go, my god, now that was horrible. 202 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 3: So that's save more money so we can self ensure. 203 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 4: Right. 204 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 3: It was a complete different mentality, right, So Chinese after 205 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 3: any major crisis and disaster, they just go and save 206 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 3: more money. So part of was that, and of course 207 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 3: part of was I think disappointment with how Beijing has 208 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 3: both managed, you know, the COVID lockdown and opening up, 209 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 3: and also disappointment with how poorly GDB has performed post COVID. 210 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 3: So again, both of those has caused I think consumer 211 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 3: to go into a weight and see mode. So you're 212 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 3: not seeing people spending money. It's not because they don't 213 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 3: have money. Right, there's about thirty trillion dollars not even 214 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 3: renting BIA dollars equivalent of household savings and bank accounts 215 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 3: and sort of quasi bank accounts in money markets. Trust products, 216 00:10:58,679 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 3: but they're just not spending money. 217 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 4: It's a confidence issue. 218 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 2: Thirty trillion. 219 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, they save a lot of money. 220 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,719 Speaker 1: You launched the Ralliant Quantinmental China ETF. I guess it 221 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: was at the end of twenty twenty, and it's been 222 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: a bit of a rocky launch. It's down about forty 223 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: two percent from the launch. Talk to us a little 224 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: bit about the strategy, you know, how you pick stocks 225 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: for that ETF and and why you know why this 226 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: early couple of years of it have been so rough. 227 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, So, you know, the beta has been a major 228 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 3: major headway. You know, I think we launch a product 229 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 3: at the time where we believe, oh, you know, as 230 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 3: trying to gets incorporated more into the sort of MSCI basket, 231 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 3: there's going to be sort of natural flow going into 232 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 3: the ascid claus and people are going to start to 233 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 3: get more curious about, oh, can you directly invest in 234 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 3: China rather than just buying Ali Baba as an American 235 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,719 Speaker 3: ADR made me that's looking at the next Audibaba right, 236 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 3: an unknown firm listed on shore. So you know, we 237 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 3: launched an onshore product that focused on issuers, and of 238 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 3: course we ran headlong into essentially three years of turbulence 239 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 3: all the way from the COVID lockdown to really government 240 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 3: uh you know, experimental experimenting with policies of you know, 241 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 3: how to manage e commerce platform companies. 242 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 4: H and I would say huge imping. 243 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 3: As he's marching in this third term, there's just a 244 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 3: lot of uncertainty with regard to what will that look like, right, well, 245 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 3: Beijing after power consolidation, uh still kind of pursue the 246 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 3: same kind of pro growth policy from the previous. 247 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 4: Eras or would there be a majorship? Right So there's 248 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 4: just a lot of uncertainty. 249 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 3: And I think so early signs has not really you know, 250 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 3: caused people to develop confidence. And certainly you got the 251 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 3: China US tension that started with you know, President Trump 252 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 3: and continued to present by them. So we ran into 253 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 3: a lot of sort of beta headwinds, unexpected of course, 254 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 3: but it is I would say, part for the core 255 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 3: when it comes to investing in emerging markets. You know, 256 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 3: this is China. Now, If it's not China, I'm sure 257 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 3: there are many many other emerging countries that also run 258 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 3: into such your political tensions you know with someone you know, 259 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 3: beal with China, beal with the US and also their 260 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 3: own domestic election cycle can can play heavily into sort 261 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 3: of the betahead wind as well. But I would say 262 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 3: part for the course for EM investing. 263 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 2: So can you talk about how you're making sense of 264 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 2: what else is happening in the emerging market space? Because 265 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: emerging market stocks gave up their gains for the year, 266 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 2: So any gains that we had had up until I 267 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 2: think it was a couple of days ago, actually they 268 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 2: gave up all of those gains. I'm wondering what the 269 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 2: biggest pain point for emerging market stocks has been this year. 270 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: Is it what's going on in the US in terms 271 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 2: of rising interest rates? Is it China? 272 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: Is it? 273 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 2: You know, a multiple of those factors weighing on EM stocks. 274 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: How are you making sense of what's going on? 275 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 4: Yeah? You basically have the perfect storm. 276 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 3: So you know, our quant data process looks all the 277 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 3: way from kind of the micro bottoms up and then 278 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 3: you know, taking into account kind of all the macro 279 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 3: data and unfortunately you got everything going against you. Right 280 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 3: kind of on a fundamental side, right, EM is still 281 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 3: so dependent on DM consumption, right, So when. 282 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 4: EM is performing poorly, oftentimes it's because EM is looking to. 283 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 3: D M to drive consumption growth, so they can explore right, 284 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,359 Speaker 3: you know, EM is very much a raw resource exporting 285 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 3: manufacturer good exporting. So Europe has clearly been weak and 286 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 3: most of the manufacturer in EM has been sort of 287 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 3: forecasting a US hard landing, so they weren't aggressively seeking 288 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 3: to build capacity, and so you got you got that 289 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 3: going against EM. And then of course you have the 290 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 3: dollar at record high yield and so you know, EM 291 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 3: have historically dependent on a lot of global capital and 292 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 3: now you have this global capital flight away from EM 293 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 3: back to the dollar because they're dollars, safety and yield 294 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 3: there is just so much more attractive. So it's pulling 295 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 3: Calta away from some of the capital poor economy. So 296 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 3: that's a that's a that's a major headwind as well. 297 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 3: So you kind of got a fundamental against you. Now 298 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 3: you've got kind of the financing, the liquidity part against you. 299 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 3: And from a sentiment perspective, you know, EM sentiment is 300 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 3: more fragile by local stock markets are shallow. 301 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 4: So when we you. 302 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 3: Know, when our quant scores look at sort of sentiment scores, 303 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 3: what we've seen is sort of you know, as floor 304 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 3: of a sentiments score across the board for EM, not 305 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 3: just for China, but really across the board for EM 306 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 3: and not just domestic flows, but even you know, more 307 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 3: long term institutional global folks are showing very poor sentiment. 308 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 2: Where do you see opportunities in EM right now? Then 309 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: how are you thinking about the broader landscape? 310 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 4: So I would say, you know, short term versus long term. 311 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 3: Short term, I would say the interesting and fun place 312 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 3: are really all the French shoring themes, and then you 313 00:15:58,080 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 3: know those could could last all the way from a 314 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 3: few months path maybe you. 315 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 4: Know a year or two. 316 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 3: Uh, so you know, you have you know, Mexico now 317 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 3: being I think front and center for a lot of 318 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 3: people thinking, hey, you know, friend shorwing Mexico is an 319 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 3: obvious candidate as an EM economy that's big enough and 320 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 3: obviously close enough to to the US for that theme 321 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 3: to really thrive investment in the in New Mexico, India obviously, 322 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 3: you know, Vietnam, you know, being where a lot of 323 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 3: Chinese entrepreneurs and the factories have moved production to. And 324 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 3: so that friend showing exercise has sort of pushed a 325 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 3: lot of foreign direct investments from China, you know, and 326 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 3: from Chinese into Vietnam. So I would say there are 327 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 3: a lot of opportunities around the French shoring concept. That's 328 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 3: kind of the short term and obviously we saw a 329 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 3: major rally for for India before it pulled back more 330 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 3: recently as well. In the long run, I would say 331 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 3: in the long run, where I think the opportunities are UH, 332 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 3: it'll continue to be the explot oriented and high value 333 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 3: add economies. You know, you're China, You're in the UH, 334 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 3: and increasingly so your your Vietnam, your Indonesia is more 335 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 3: foreign direct investments, you know, lead China to to go 336 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 3: to these smaller economies They're going to follow kind of 337 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 3: the Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and of course the China 338 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 3: model of exporting UH and then through exporting, improving corporate profits, 339 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 3: improving GDD growth UH. And I'm probably a bit more 340 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 3: mixed about purely resource based EM economy because they seem 341 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 3: to go through these boom bus cycles are just driven 342 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 3: by commodities prices and have commodity devices could sustain the 343 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 3: current high level due to your political tension, but without 344 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 3: really strong on value add I'm a little you know, 345 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 3: less fond of a pure resource oriented em economy. So 346 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 3: very fond of the the Asian EM because you can 347 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 3: see all of them are climbing the productivity curve, and 348 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 3: the French showing is certainly going to accelerate the process. 349 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: I like that expression, friendshuring. It's a lot more UH 350 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: friendly expression than the rest of the world is at 351 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: each other throats, you know, friendsuring is the positive side 352 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,959 Speaker 1: of that, I guess. But Jason, I'm glad you brought 353 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: up the dollar because one of the things I wanted 354 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: to ask you about is, you know, the really severe 355 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: weakness in the Chinese currency lately. Uh it's even been 356 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: sort of testing that two percent trading band that the 357 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: People's Bank of China sets every day. I mean, is 358 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: there a risk of the PBOC sort of losing control 359 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: of the exchange rate? Where do they always have enough 360 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: sort of firepower to keep it in that you know 361 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: range that they wanted in. 362 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 3: Yes, I would say the PBOC is pretty mixed when 363 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 3: it comes to managing the remming bet. You know, part 364 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 3: of the PBOC clearly understands that it is still an 365 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,959 Speaker 3: export oriented economy and for you know, stimulating the export sector, 366 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 3: which is really great for domestic employment. And obviously the 367 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 3: key cities that have thrived because of manufacturing, like a 368 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 3: weaker remming Bee helped, right, So I understand. And now, 369 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 3: of course it doesn't like to be labeled as a 370 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 3: currency manipulator, doesn't want sanctioned that. 371 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 4: Comes with that. 372 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 3: So this is sort of perfect time as the dollar 373 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 3: increased rates and then have strengthen, you know, for rending 374 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 3: be too weakend it's really it's certainly weakening at the 375 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 3: perfect time when China is experiencing sort of deflation, right, 376 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 3: And so I don't think the PBOC minds it now. 377 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 3: Of course, the PBOC is sort of you know, constantly 378 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 3: watching to see if intervention is necessary. Again, I mean 379 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 3: from an intervention perspective, given that person of China has 380 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 3: a sort of massive dollar reserve and you know, other 381 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 3: currency reserve, and given that increasingly, you know, China has 382 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 3: been successful in marketing renming b as a viable reserve 383 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 3: certainly for for clearing, uh for for some of the 384 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 3: energy related resource. 385 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 4: Remming Bee in the position it is in right now, 386 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 4: it doesn't. 387 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 3: Really have a an issue much like you know, the 388 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 3: Latin currency when they're trying to defend a peg, right, 389 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 3: you don't you just don't have that issue because of 390 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 3: the reserve they have, and also the reserve status that 391 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 3: rending be is increasingly achieving. 392 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 2: Jason, I'm curious how you think investors are thinking about 393 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 2: EM opportunities right now, because we've had, barring the last 394 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: couple of weeks, maybe we've had really strong performances from 395 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 2: US large cap tech companies so far this year, and 396 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 2: so I'm just wondering how you think people in general 397 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 2: are thinking about investing in EM versus investing in large 398 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 2: cap US tech companies, or even to make it maybe 399 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 2: more relevant to the last couple of weeks, investing in 400 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 2: shorter dated bonds or cash like instruments where you can 401 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 2: maybe get you know, north of five percent. Some of 402 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 2: the yields are like five and a half percent currently. 403 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 3: I mean historically people bought EM because they say, hey, 404 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 3: I'm happy you take some risks if this allows me 405 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 3: to buy kind of foundational components for growth. You look 406 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 3: at EM, I go, yes, a young, hungry workforce, and 407 00:20:58,359 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 3: that's got a drive growth. Right. 408 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 4: Hey, it's an indefficient market, so you. 409 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 3: Know that's got to provide lots of opportunity, uh for 410 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,959 Speaker 3: for growth because you know, capital is dearth in those markets. 411 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 3: So if you can go supply capital, you can return 412 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 3: you know, a fantastic return. But I would say more recently, uh, 413 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 3: you kind of have you know, those thesis going against 414 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 3: you a little bit in that of people are now 415 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 3: looking at US and say, oh, you know, if the 416 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 3: US is going to be at ground zero of the 417 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 3: AI innovation, right, I mean, maybe that's where I go 418 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 3: buy growth. Right, Maybe growth is not about buying you know, young, 419 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 3: lesser skilled labor cheap, but it might be buying AI 420 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 3: technology that. 421 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 4: Will replace you know that that that that labor. 422 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 3: Now, I think that thesis is wrong because you know, 423 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 3: most of our AI is replacing American white color worker 424 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 3: rather than factory workers, right, because we don't actually have 425 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 3: very functioning robots, right, we just have chat GPT that 426 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 3: can write law bries. You know, that's not what we're 427 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 3: getting the Chinese factory workers do. But be as I may, 428 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 3: I think there's just a lot of now believe that, oh, 429 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 3: if I want to buy growth, maybe I should just 430 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 3: dump a lot of money into video and that I'll 431 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 3: by growth that way. I don't need to take the 432 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 3: risk of em And certainly historically there's a lot on 433 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 3: fixed incomes are right, you also have a lot of 434 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 3: people going to uh EM fixed income for the higher 435 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 3: you knowing that they're taking currency risks, they're taking a 436 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 3: lot of these government mismanagement risks. But today you look 437 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 3: at how much the dollars yielding at, it's harder to 438 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 3: make that case. So you kind of got a bit 439 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 3: of a double m against EM right now. The two 440 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 3: key pieces, you know, growth uh and that additional yield 441 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 3: US seems to be making that available through the large 442 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 3: cap tech and then just the dollar treasury yielding at 443 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 3: the you know, five five and a half percent, So 444 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 3: rather tough as a headwind for EM in the short run. 445 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 3: Right in the short run, I mean we expect, we 446 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 3: fully expect, you know, the US interest rate is going 447 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 3: to get cut because we owe you know, thirty four 448 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 3: trillon dollars, so we prefer to owe thirty four trillion dollars. 449 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 4: At zero interest rate than six percent. 450 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 3: So you imagine that's going to get cut, and the 451 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 3: attractiveness of the EM currency and yield is going to 452 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 3: come back. You also expect that we'll quickly realize, you know, 453 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 3: there's tech growth, but then there's a lot of manufacturing 454 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 3: that's needed to produce that tech. So EM is still 455 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 3: going to be important driver. So in the long run, 456 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 3: I think those thesis are true. But short run, you know, 457 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 3: past perform and tends to draw a lot of flow, 458 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 3: so you as is that the best performance? 459 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: You know, Jase, I know you've done some work looking 460 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: at whether it would make sense to sort of carve 461 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: China out of the emerging market stock indexes, you know, 462 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: as China decoupling from the US and maybe even the 463 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: other emerging markets. Talk to us a little bit about 464 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: your thinking around that. You know, where we going to 465 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: hear more and more about sort of E M X 466 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: China type of funds. What's your take on, you know, 467 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: the notion of EM indexes that exclude China. 468 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 3: You know, Mike, when I originally did the research, you know, 469 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 3: my my rationale for exiting out China was more about, well, 470 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 3: China is so big inside EM, right, so if you 471 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 3: don't exil China, then China has a bad year. EM 472 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 3: as a bad year, so you're not getting a lot 473 00:23:58,720 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 3: of diversication benefit. 474 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 4: Take out China. 475 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 3: Chinnea's not very correlated with the rest of EM, so 476 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 3: you got more flexibility correlation benefit is better, and then 477 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 3: it just seems to make sense. It's like, how we 478 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 3: took us out of global acuity, so people did us 479 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 3: and global us, right, that makes sense. 480 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 1: China is what close to half of the like the 481 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: MSCI em indux stuff like that. 482 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 3: You know, when before it declined forty percent, it was 483 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 3: about and so you know that I thought was like 484 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 3: a very academically uh defensible reason, but you know, no 485 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 3: one paid attention to that. But today people are liking 486 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 3: that concept because they sort of have a sort of 487 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 3: bad taste in their mouth. It's like, ah, you know, 488 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 3: China's fallen too much. If I've taken China out of 489 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 3: my EM, I EM would have done better. Right, So 490 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 3: there's a little exposed regret. And there's also I think 491 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 3: a lot of value judgments. And again you know I'm I'm, 492 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 3: I'm you know, perfectly happy or people both invest and 493 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 3: impost some kind of ESG. 494 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 4: Value judgment in their portfolio. 495 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 3: So it makes sense, right, like take China l It 496 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 3: gives you that flexibility, right, you can be you can 497 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 3: be an e investors and say, oh, China doesn't come 498 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 3: you know, you know the fact that government is communists, 499 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 3: so that's not consistently. 500 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, that's fine. 501 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 3: You could be like a contrarian investor and say, wow, 502 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 3: you know everyone hates China, so I'm good buy China, 503 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 3: and that could work as well. 504 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 4: So you take China out of EM. 505 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 3: It allows people to sort of ask allocate whether because 506 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 3: you know, they really like China or they really hate China, 507 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 3: and they don't just have to do it within the 508 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 3: context on EM basket. 509 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 2: Jis and I can't even imagine all of the things 510 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 2: you have to be keeping up with in the world 511 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 2: to be able to formulate some of these thoughts. Like 512 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 2: I'm thinking about some of the elections that are coming 513 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 2: up in major EM countries, lots of stuff happening in Argentina, 514 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 2: et cetera. I'm wondering how you're thinking about the remainder 515 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: of this year and whether or not you see more 516 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 2: volatility if there are some opportunities to be buying, you know, 517 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 2: different EM stocks. 518 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 3: So we really like EM again, the short term is 519 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 3: it's hard to predict, and my guess is for the 520 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 3: rest of the year, sentiment will remain negative. The volatility 521 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 3: will be there, but you know, you know, most of 522 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 3: our clients are large institutions. So at least I can 523 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,479 Speaker 3: tell you for institutions to build a position too. You know, 524 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 3: the dollar cost averaging into a position is a great 525 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 3: way to invest. 526 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 4: For the long run and form a valuation perspective. EM 527 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 4: is cheap. 528 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 3: You know, you can't expect to go into EM and 529 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 3: immediately see it sort of turn around and start recovering. 530 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 3: But you can probably bet on in ten years if 531 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 3: you buy at such a cheap level, if your willingness 532 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 3: is like no short term fluctuation, you're gonna do plenty well. 533 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 4: Right. 534 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 3: And then, like I said early in a program like 535 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 3: the world's always like the twin engine, right, like kind 536 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 3: of you us as the head of DM really innovating. 537 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 3: So it's driving growth through innovation, and EM is achieving 538 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 3: growth through imitation. Right, So you got innovation and imitation. 539 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 3: Those are two amazing engines that keep the world going. 540 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 3: And then you should you know, have both. 541 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: You know, Jason, you touched briefly on the trade tensions 542 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: between the US and China. I'm wondering how you're thinking 543 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: about that going forward. I mean, what is sort of 544 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: the status there? It seems to me like kind of 545 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: a stalemate, a standoff, but is there a path towards reconciliation? 546 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 1: You know, where does this relationship go? 547 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 3: So, yeah, there's a lot of you know, bickering back 548 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 3: and forth. I tend to see the US China relationship 549 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 3: as a abusive code dependent marriage, right, Like if you 550 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 3: think about it, right, Like, the US is the world's 551 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 3: biggest consumer, right, and we run a massive trade deficit, 552 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,719 Speaker 3: and that just means someone must be a big producer. 553 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 3: We can't all be consuming, right, Someone's got to make stuff, 554 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 3: and we can't all be borrowing. Someone's got to let, right, 555 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 3: Like US consumes and we borrow from foreign countries, and 556 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 3: China needs to be the willing partner to produce and 557 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 3: lend us money to consume, So we can't break away 558 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 3: from each other, right, and then we're both too big. Right. 559 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 4: It's not like US can. 560 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 3: Go replace China with Vietnam and say, hey, we'll give 561 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 3: you the Chinese deal, right where you do all of 562 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 3: our manufacturing and lend money to us. Because Vietnam's got 563 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 3: what a population of sixty million, right, China's got you 564 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 3: one point three billion people. So just the math of 565 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 3: the two conage being so large, and they almost are 566 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 3: like the perfect fit for each other well. 567 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: Jason Sue. He is the chairman and chief investment Officer 568 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: at Ralliant Global Advisors. Always great to catch up with you, Jason, 569 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: and hear how you're thinking about the world. You've got 570 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: such a great way of explaining everything, and as Wodanna said, 571 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: you've got your eye all over the world, which we 572 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: really appreciate. But we can't let you go quite yet. 573 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: We do have a tradition on the podcast of sharing 574 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: the craziest things we've seen in markets this week, Pildatta, 575 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: let's start with you. 576 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 2: I have a good one that I found on X 577 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 2: Mine is about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelcey. Okay, yeah, 578 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 2: I know you. You prefer the Swift a separate Swift 579 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 2: Kelsey pairing on the Eagles, probably this one. This one's 580 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 2: more important to the world of pop culture and swifties 581 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 2: like me. But just to show you the Taylor Swift effect, 582 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 2: this is This is a tweet from Joe Panpliano. Taylor, 583 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 2: as we as the entire world knows now, was at 584 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 2: the Kansas City Chiefs game over the weekend. She was 585 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 2: in a box with Travis Kelcey's mom and a bunch 586 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 2: of friends and they were having a really great time 587 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 2: x slash. Twitter went wild and people everywhere went wild 588 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 2: for this. Anyway, after you know, Taylor Swift visited him 589 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 2: at this game, he gained more than three hundred thousand 590 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 2: social media followers. Wow, he saw They saw a four 591 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 2: hundred percent increase in merchandise sales, and his jersey became 592 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 2: one of the top five selling jerseys in the NFL. 593 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 2: The NFL changed their Twitter X well, I can't say 594 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 2: X honestly, their their X description to say, like Taylor 595 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 2: Swift was here, like it just the impact was mind 596 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 2: blowing to me. 597 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: My wife has a conspiracy theory that ratings were going 598 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: down for the NFL games and they needed they needed 599 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: to bring it in. 600 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 2: And I've heard this conspiracy theory before. I'm not in. 601 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 2: I don't buy into it, but I like it. 602 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: I like it. That's a good as far as conspiracy 603 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: theories go. That's it. That's a good. 604 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 2: One four hundred percent increase in merchandise sales. 605 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: That's that's your market angle. 606 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, exactly, I need to hire Taylor Swift 607 00:30:58,720 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 3: to sell my et. 608 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: You got to make a friendship bracelet with the checker 609 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: symbol on it. Jason, that's what That's what Kelsey did. 610 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: You made a friendship bracelet with her number. Who would 611 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: have thought that would work? 612 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 2: Well? 613 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: How about you, Jason, you see anything crazy in the 614 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: last week or so. 615 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 3: I mean, it's a long running theme for me. And 616 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 3: because I have such a grudge against Nvidia. 617 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 4: I saw this on X. I saw this on X 618 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 4: but it. 619 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 3: May have been on there for a while. I'm in 620 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 3: the Middle East. I'm a little out of touch, right. 621 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 3: Someone actually said, like, Nvidia maybe a bit of a 622 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 3: Ponzi scheme because apparently they bought a company who's like 623 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 3: the biggest buyer of their chips, and like, if you 624 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 3: work out the accounting, all of their sales growth was 625 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 3: driven by you know this other company. So there there 626 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 3: may be some funky, weird thing going on. But in 627 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 3: full disclosure, right, my big, big grudge against Nvidia is 628 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 3: not because I got a short position in it. 629 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 4: And got my clocks clean, none of that. 630 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 3: It's because my mom bought Nvidia and one hundred bucks 631 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 3: a share it went up to two point fifty on 632 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 3: that crazy upgrade, and I. 633 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 4: Said, Mom, this this makes no sense. 634 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 3: You could sell it, right, It reminds me of Cisco 635 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 3: during a tech bubble where everyone says, oh, of course 636 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 3: everyone would need to buy a router, and you know, 637 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 3: Cisco will own the world. And so you know, that's 638 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 3: kind of seemed narrative. I hear about video, So I 639 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 3: told my mom son video he makes us a good game, 640 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 3: and of course then it goes to. 641 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 4: Like four hundred and fifty. So every time my mom sees. 642 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 3: Me, right, he's like, I have an idiot for a son. 643 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 3: Untold in video falls below two fifty, I'm going to 644 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 3: be like putting a X curse. 645 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 4: On that stock. 646 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: That's hilarious. Well that's kind of I think very indicative 647 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: of uh, the mania that takes over. That just doesn't 648 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: seem to make sense. Now, I credit in video has 649 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: got a decent a very good book case. But uh, 650 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: you know what are your mom's not performing you you know, 651 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: you know, you know something, something's out of whack with markets. 652 00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: I love that story. That's hilarious. Uh, all right, your mine, 653 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: vil donna. Do you know what the highest denomination Federal 654 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: Reserve Bill is? In other words, the highest denomination currency 655 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: paper currency is right. 656 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 2: Now, one hundred bucks. 657 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: Did you know during the Great depression, and prior to that, 658 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: I assume too, there were bills denominated in ten thousand. 659 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: There were ten thousand dollars banknotes available. They never circulated publicly. 660 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: They were basically just used to transfer funds between various 661 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: Federal Reserve banks. But this is according to a story 662 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 1: in the New York Post, one of them that was 663 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: printed in nineteen thirty four just came up for auction, 664 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: and the picture on it is President Abe Lincoln's Treasury 665 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: Secretary Salmon P. Chase. The question for you to game 666 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: show consstants right now is what do you think this 667 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars bill from night teen thirty four, pristine condition, 668 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: sold for at the Long Beach Currency Expo. 669 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 2: You can't use it, right, you know? 670 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 1: That's a third good question. 671 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,839 Speaker 2: You would just have it like to hang on your wall. 672 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: That's a very good question. I assume I'd have to 673 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: zoom in on the picture and see if it says 674 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: legal tender for all debts, blah blah blah. That's a 675 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: good question. I don't know. I will tell you this, 676 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: for what it's sold for, you would not want to 677 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: spend it. That's one hint to the value that I 678 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: have for. 679 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 3: I'm going to guess it's below two point three million, 680 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,439 Speaker 3: which is I think what the Tom Brady baseball car fetch. 681 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 4: It can't be more valuable than that. 682 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm for a crazy number out there. 683 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 4: Half a million dollars. 684 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: Half a million dollars? All right, vill Donna, what's your 685 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: bid for a ten thousand dollars Salmon p Chase bill 686 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 1: from nineteen thirty four? 687 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 2: I literally have no guess what like at all, So 688 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 2: I'm just gonna go with ten thousand. 689 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: Ten thousand. You think it's just sold. 690 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 2: For part Yeah, I'm just going with that. 691 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. Jason. It's a shame your mom's not 692 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 1: here because you just got some redemption here. You're very 693 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: close four hundred and eighty thousand. Wow, yeah, Wow. Apparently 694 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: it's a big This is a huge collector's market is 695 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: old bills of high denominations like this. Who knew you 696 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: learned something new? 697 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 2: Usually I have like at least a little bit of 698 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 2: like a feeling toward what something might be, you know, 699 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 2: even if I'm wildly off. But on this one, I 700 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 2: had absolutely nothing. I just would not even know. Your 701 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 2: hint didn't help at all for what it sold for 702 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 2: you wouldn't want to spend it. 703 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, because there's no there's no NFC options now, 704 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 3: so people need something to collect. 705 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. Jason Seu of Ralliant Global Advisors, thank 706 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: you so much for your friend. 707 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 4: Thanks Mike, Thanks Madonna, thank you, Jason. 708 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,439 Speaker 1: Well, thank you for listening to What goes Up. While 709 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: we're on hiatus. You can follow or subscribe to What 710 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: goes Up to stay tuned for updates. We'll be dropping 711 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: information about what's next here in this feed. You can 712 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 1: also follow Bloomberg Podcasts at podcast on x. What Goes 713 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,879 Speaker 1: Up as produced by Stacy Wang. Our head of podcasts 714 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: is Sage Bauman. Thanks for listening.