1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning. 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: episode is going to be a longer one part of 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: the series where I interview fascinating people about how they 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: take their days from great to awesome and any advice 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: they have for the rest of us. So today I 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: am delighted to welcome Sarah hart Hunger back to Before Breakfast. 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: Sarah is my co host on the Best of Both 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: Worlds podcasts, so some of you may know her from there. 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: She also hosts the Best Laid Plans podcast and is 11 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: the author of the brand new book which is out 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: next week called Best Laid Plans. So, Sarah, welcome to 13 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: the show. 14 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited 15 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 2: to be on Before Breakfast. 16 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're excited to have you back. So tell our 17 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: listeners a little bit about yourself. 18 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, first of all, I am Laura's podcasting partner 19 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: on Best of Both Worlds, as she mentioned, and I 20 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: am a physician. I'm a pediatric endocrinologists working in South Florida. 21 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: I have three kids, ages eight. I'm trying to think 22 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: of how how old they'll be when this airs eleven 23 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: and thirteen. As of this airing, I just wrote a 24 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 2: book called Best Laid Plans, a simple planning System for 25 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 2: living a life that you love, and I have my 26 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: own website and podcasts called Bestlaid Plans about all Things 27 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: planning and planning Adjacent. 28 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you are an expert in all things planning 29 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: and planning adjacent, and now you have written a book 30 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: about would you say it's about how to plan? Is 31 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: it about the theory of planning? Why don't you tell 32 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: us a little bit about that? 33 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 2: There's a little bit of theory in that I work 34 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 2: very hard to convince readers that most people benefit from 35 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 2: spending a bit more time planning than they currently do, 36 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 2: as well as thinking about how they plan, not just 37 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: haphazardly going about it, but creating systems with thought and 38 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: a spirit of iteration and experimentation, something I sometimes call metaplanning. 39 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: But then, there is a very cohesive set of systems 40 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: that are introduced in the book, both for managing inputs 41 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: that come at you and tasks that you have to 42 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 2: deal with from day to day, as well as setting 43 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: goals on every level, from big annual goals to daily goals. 44 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: That get checked off on a task list. 45 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the book came out of some of the 46 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: courses you have been teaching over the past few years. 47 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: I mean, what need did you see when you are 48 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: teaching these courses that you're like, oh, I really need 49 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: to expand on that more. 50 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 2: Yes, I saw people overwhelmed by the idea of planning 51 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 2: and listening to people share that they would love to 52 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 2: have systems that they were pleasurable to use, and also 53 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 2: systems that they felt they could stick with so that 54 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 2: they could set big goals and not forget them just 55 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: a few months down the road in the year. And 56 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 2: also a big common theme was just managing the barrage 57 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: of inputs that come at us from every direction day 58 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: to day. How to keep one's inbox manageable and make 59 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 2: sure that we decide the priorities of our day before 60 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: our day kind of swallows us whole in a sea 61 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: of reactivity or something like that. 62 00:02:59,160 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 63 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: So I all these were struggles and I felt that 64 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: obviously I can't solve these problems entirely for anyone, but 65 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: I had accumulated a lot of strategies that can be helpful, 66 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 2: and I put this together into a course where we 67 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: actually went through the specifics of having a very accurate calendar, 68 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 2: what to do with all those inputs, and categorizing your 69 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 2: tasks that you see them at the right time and 70 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 2: not be stressed out by them at the wrong time. 71 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 2: And again that kind of nested goal setting system that 72 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: goes from really small things on a daily level all 73 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 2: the way to the goals that you set through the year, 74 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: and how to both have these lists be realistic but 75 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: also connected in some way so that you're not losing 76 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: sight of those bigger picture goals as you move throughout 77 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: the day and get things done that need to happen. 78 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and speaking of getting things done, I think 79 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: of your book sort of as a modern day twist 80 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: on David Allen's favorite book, getting a famous book, Getting 81 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: Things Done. Maybe you could talk a little bit about 82 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: what the similarities are to that and then of course 83 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: some differences. Yes. 84 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I want to say I love 85 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: David Allen's Getting Things Done. I've read that book at 86 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 2: least three times, and a lot of what he talks 87 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: about does inform some of what is in my book. 88 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: And I always tried to give him credit where credit 89 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: was due, But one thing that never really worked for 90 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: me is the idea of having one giant list of 91 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 2: every single thing that I could possibly do, and then 92 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: being able to organically look at that and decide what 93 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: to do from moment to moment. I didn't feel there 94 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 2: was an easy way of kind of connecting that moment 95 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 2: to moment. This is my priority to this massive barrage 96 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 2: of things that are out there, and I do think 97 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 2: part of that has to do with the fact that 98 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 2: today things are coming at us a little bit faster, 99 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: and also that I'm just managing multiple realms. I have 100 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 2: a kind of structured job. I have a job that's 101 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: more free form. I have my whole household life to 102 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: deal with. I have to keep track of my kids 103 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: and just all of these different spheres. 104 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 3: If I were to make one giant list of things, I. 105 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,119 Speaker 2: Would be so overwhelmed by that list that I probably 106 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 2: would never even get started. So I kind of took 107 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 2: a spin on this that makes things at least feel 108 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: more manageable, but still took his idea of complete capture, 109 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: And like his book, I really do feel like it's 110 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 2: an instructive manual. It definitely has some personal elements in it. Vignettes. 111 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: I tried to make it fun to read and not 112 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: terribly dry. But at the same time, if I were 113 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 2: gonna kind of compare it to any book that's out there, 114 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 2: that probably would be the closest comp even though it 115 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 2: came out more than twenty years ago. 116 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely well, they'll both be pillars of the you know, 117 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: planning and organizational literature for sure. So what do most 118 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: people get wrong about planning? I'm sure a lot of 119 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: people are listening to this and thing, well, I bought 120 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: a planner, Is that what I need to do? 121 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I love planners. 122 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 2: But one thing people get wrong is that the tool 123 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 2: matters immensely and that if you have exactly the right book, 124 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 2: that all of a sudden you're going to be a 125 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 2: planning genius because you know the book is going to 126 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 2: do all the work for you. And I think it's 127 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 2: so much less about the tools and so much more 128 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:03,119 Speaker 2: about the rituals, which include adding clear descriptions and having 129 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 2: thought put into when you're going to do your planning, 130 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: how you're going to do your planning, exactly what elements 131 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: you're going to incorporate into your planning rituals. There's so 132 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 2: much more how than there is of a kind of 133 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 2: physical what whether that's a very flashy app or a book. 134 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: So I think that's number one, and. 135 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 2: Then the number two would be I've heard people say 136 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: I don't have time to plan, and to me that 137 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 2: is like a harried chef running around a kitchen saying, well, 138 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 2: I don't have time to sharpen my knife. Because to me, yes, 139 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 2: planning does take time, and it's it's a significant amount 140 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 2: of time, but the time dividends and the sort of 141 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 2: directional dividends in that you're probably going to be spending 142 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 2: more time doing things that actually move forward on the 143 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: things you want are so valuable that for me that 144 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: time trade off is just so so so worth it. 145 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 3: So I guess that. 146 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 2: Would be number one, and number two. 147 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I might even add to that a third that 148 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: I think there's this sort of misconception about planning that 149 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: it's about planning things you don't want to do, and 150 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: so it doesn't sound very appealing because it's like, well, 151 00:06:58,320 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: who wants to put more in that I don't want 152 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: to do? 153 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I totally agree with you, and the 154 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 2: idea that the goals mean, you know, all work tasks 155 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 2: or like you know, sweeping the cellar or something like that. 156 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 2: Your goals should be things you're excited to do in life. 157 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 2: Of course, there are going to be things on your 158 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 2: list that you're not like sparkling. Your eyes don't light 159 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: up when you see a state planning on there. But 160 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 2: I tell people to aim for like a two to 161 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: one ratio of things they are excited about and things 162 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: that just have to be done, so that most of 163 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 2: it is moving forward to things that are fun and 164 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,559 Speaker 2: that make life feel worth living. 165 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Well, We're going to take a quick ad break 166 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 1: and then I will be back with more from Sarah 167 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:42,239 Speaker 1: Hart Hunger. Well, we are back. We're talking all things 168 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: planning with Sarah Hart Hunger, who has a brand new 169 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: book out next week called Best Laid Plans. That is 170 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: also the name of her podcast, which you should go 171 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: check out. So we talk a lot about weekly planning 172 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: on this show. Sarah, I know it's a core part 173 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: of my planning processes. What does your weekly planning which 174 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: will look like these days? 175 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 2: I do some of it on Wednesday and some of 176 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: it on Sunday recently, so this is a little bit quirky, 177 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 2: but it has to do with the fact that I 178 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 2: generally have full days of patient care on Thursday and 179 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: Friday and there just isn't much bandwidth for planning. But 180 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 2: Wednesday is a more creative day for me. It's also 181 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 2: not typically a big recording day. I tend to do 182 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: more of that on Mondays. So on Wednesday afternoon, I 183 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: tend to make sure my inboxes are relatively up to current, 184 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 2: and I sit there and think through what do I 185 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: want to get done for the rest of this week 186 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 2: and then into the next week, and then when it 187 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 2: comes into kind of more I don't know, loftier goal 188 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 2: setting and actually looking at my big month goals and 189 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 2: figuring out what to carry forward, as well as setting 190 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 2: up logistical plans for our household types of things. I 191 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 2: do all of that on Sundays, and that involves actually 192 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 2: physically setting up my planner spread on that Sunday, as 193 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: well as what I call our weekly board, where the 194 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 2: kids can then see who has what activities. We also 195 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 2: always have some kind of an interactive component. Typically over 196 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: Sunday dinner we review what is on that board, like oh, 197 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 2: are you still going to go to that volunteer event 198 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 2: on Wednesday? And who's going to be picking you up, 199 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 2: and of course we also know ask for input as 200 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 2: to whether there are things that need to change. Therefore, 201 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 2: by the end we have had a discussion and we 202 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 2: have a written component and everything feels pretty set moving 203 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 2: into the week. 204 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: And what does your daily planning ritual look like, because 205 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: there's different levels that this all works on. 206 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, my daily planning ritual is quick. I probably spend 207 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 2: less than ten minutes planning daily. And that's even an 208 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 2: overstatement really because part of what I call planning is 209 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 2: setting up my planner page in the planner that I use, 210 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 2: which is almost a little bit of a meditative arts 211 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 2: and crafts ritual that I just really enjoy and it 212 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: gets my day started on the right foot. But I 213 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 2: will spend time looking at my weekly spread, figuring out 214 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 2: what I have for the day, whether I can figure 215 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: out whether I can fit in some additional tasks, put 216 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 2: those tasks on my to do list, kind of map 217 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: out my timeline for the day, and get the bowl rolling. 218 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: And really that that takes ten minutes or less. 219 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: And you're doing this in the early morning, if I 220 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: remember correctly, we are big on morning routines here at 221 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: before breakfast. Maybe you could talk us through what a 222 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: morning routine tends to look like for you. 223 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 2: Yes, and I know you talk about in your podcast 224 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 2: how you like to surprise people and tell them you're 225 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 2: not one of those annoying early five am people. 226 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: You are one of those early five am people, aren't you. 227 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 2: I'm totally annoying, but this has been I'm just wired 228 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: this way. Even in residency, when I had to be 229 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 2: at the hospital at five am, I wouldn't get up 230 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 2: at four thirty in rush. I'd be getting up like 231 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: at four so I could sit there with my coffee 232 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 2: and have a little bit of morning time. I crave 233 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 2: it so much, and I don't have difficulty waking up early. 234 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: I do have difficulties staying up late, so you know, 235 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 2: trade offs, but yes, I do it. I set my 236 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 2: alarm these days for around five, which is actually later 237 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: than I used to when I did tons of running, 238 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 2: But around five am, and then by five point fifteen 239 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 2: I'm done with my planning aspects of my routine and 240 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 2: starting some of the other things that I like to do. 241 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: Which include exercising. I believe you have a pretty elaborate 242 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: at many mornings you're doing at home exercising, correct. 243 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have about a sixty to forty split between 244 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 2: at home exercise and then plates classes in a studio, 245 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 2: So my at home exercise days are usually lifting weights 246 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 2: for about thirty minutes. 247 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 3: I love using guided. 248 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 2: Videos from various sources, and generally aim to get that 249 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 2: workout started by five point fifty or six because I 250 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 2: know if I don't, then the whole driving to school 251 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 2: rush is going to be thrown off. So that's kind 252 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 2: of my deadline to stop with anything else that I 253 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 2: might be doing during the morning. 254 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 1: And you also incorporate some reading time into all this. 255 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: Yes, so that's really the other main things that I 256 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: do are completing my five year journal. Currently, I've been 257 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 2: experimenting with doing some other freeform journaling and then also 258 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: doing some nonfiction reading, maybe just you know, ten pages 259 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 2: or so, but I just find the books really do 260 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: add up over the course of the year and it 261 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: gets my day started off on a fun note. 262 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: And you are able to exercise at home without waking 263 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: people up. 264 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I am past this phase where a 265 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: pin drops in your house and you hear a baby wail, 266 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 2: but no one really wakes up. I have to drag 267 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,719 Speaker 2: everyone out of bed in the morning, I'm able to 268 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 2: kind of go to a corner of our house and 269 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 2: we have a mat setup, we have weights all set up. 270 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 2: I do set my workout clothes on my bedroom floor 271 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 2: the night before, so I kind of have a whole 272 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 2: ritual going. But yeah, generally it's not too much of 273 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 2: an issue. And of course I use headphones when I'm 274 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 2: doing these guided workouts, but the AirPods seem to stay 275 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 2: in my ears despite squats and deadlifts and all those things. 276 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: Pretty amazing. It's amazing what technology can do. So but 277 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: that allows us to pivot to a different topic, which 278 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: when you came on this show last time, longtime listeners 279 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 1: may recall we were sort of celebrating how you had 280 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: achieved some of your big athletic goals, you know, like 281 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: qualifying for the Boston Marathon in the middle of a 282 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: very full life of practicing as a physician, having your 283 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: creative job, three kids. That took a big turn this year. 284 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: Maybe you could talk about the development since our last 285 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: recording together. 286 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy. 287 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 2: I mean I still remember that day of crossing the 288 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,719 Speaker 2: finish line and knowing I had met the goal I 289 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: had set for so many years and was really having 290 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 2: a blast in my running life. In March of this year, 291 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 2: I set out to run a half marathon. I've run 292 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 2: tons over the course of the year. It was like 293 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 2: a regular day like any other, but midway through the race, 294 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: or actually towards the end of the race, I felt 295 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 2: something really weird happened to me where I just felt 296 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 2: like I couldn't go anymore. And I assumed it was 297 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 2: the bunk I had heard about so many times but 298 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 2: never really experienced. But I got to the finish line somehow, 299 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 2: and then it didn't seem to be going away, even 300 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 2: though I was at that point walking and was like, huh, 301 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 2: Usually you know when you stop you should feel better, 302 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 2: but I was not feeling better. I ended up going 303 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 2: to the medical tent and a couple times. The first 304 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: time they were like, yeah, you seem fine. The second 305 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: time they started to look a little bit more concerned 306 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 2: and put a heart monitor on me, which is when 307 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: we found out that my heart was going two hundred 308 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 2: and sixty five beats a minute, completely ventricular tact cardia 309 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 2: and did not seem to want to stop doing that. 310 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 2: You cannot really live long term like that. So my 311 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 2: blood pressure started to drop and I got dizzy and 312 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: I ended up getting taken to the hospital right near 313 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 2: the race, where I got sedated a million ivs put 314 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 2: in and shocked out of it, and you know, woke 315 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 2: up in the hospital. And turns out that I ended 316 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 2: up getting a ton of testing done over the next 317 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: few days, because why was this healthy runner who's done 318 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 2: you know, tons of racism, was running sixty miles a 319 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 2: week on a regular basis having this arrhythmia. And it 320 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 2: turns out I have a cardiac issue that causes a 321 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 2: rhythmias that develops over time. Is more common if you've 322 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: had a lot of endurance exercise, but it's probably also genetic. 323 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 2: It's called a rhythmagenic cardiomyopathy. It took a couple months 324 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: to get the formal, finalized diagnosis from experts, But long 325 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 2: story short, I did find out my running career was 326 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 2: to a final, permanent end by spring of twenty twenty 327 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: five and had to spend some time processing that. But 328 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 2: I would say at this point have pretty much come 329 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 2: out on the other side. 330 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, but let's talk about that. I mean, just resiliency. 331 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: Are there practical tips like you could share it with people? 332 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: On resiliency? You had something that was a big part 333 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: of your life sort of taken away in a very 334 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: spectacular fashion. I imagine a lot of people would be bitter 335 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: about this, and you know, it was your social outlet, 336 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: it was your kind of fun outlet. What did you 337 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: do to kind of get to a place where you 338 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: can be just you know, saying it matter of factly 339 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: like this. 340 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. 341 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 2: Well, and to add a little other layer, I ended 342 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 2: up having a defibrillator implanted into me, and it's also 343 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 2: a condition with a bit. 344 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 3: Of an uncertain prognosis over time. 345 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 2: But I actually think of anything that kind of helped 346 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 2: me a little bit because I had just had instant 347 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 2: perspective of I guess how much like worse things could 348 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 2: have been, or how lucky I am that I still 349 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: have like normal cardiac function and an overall good outlet. 350 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 2: I think if you had told me, you know, running 351 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 2: was going to be taken away and there was no 352 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 2: other context, I'd be mad. But it's like, well, running 353 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 2: was taken away, but this was caught in time for 354 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 2: you to avoid heart failure, and maybe you know you 355 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 2: could have died on a run by yourself. There's instantly 356 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 2: a little bit of perspective there, so in a way, 357 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 2: I'm grateful for how things played out and how they happened. 358 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: I also went to therapy. I think sometimes you just 359 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 2: need to talk through things incessantly with someone else who's 360 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 2: willing to listen. And I didn't go for a million weeks. 361 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 2: I probably went for two or three months every week 362 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 2: or so, but I found that really helpful in processing things, 363 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: and definitely just talking with friends and sharing my story 364 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 2: with others was helpful. 365 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 3: But I don't know. 366 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 2: I think the biggest overarching thing is that I'm just like, Wow, 367 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 2: my life has so many other amazing things to offer. 368 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 3: I'm still here. 369 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 2: I still feel pretty good day to day, Like I 370 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: just think there's so much of a bright side to 371 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 2: look on that that's what I choose to focus on 372 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 2: most of the time. 373 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: Absolutely well, and also looking for ways to spend some 374 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: of that same time. I know you got very into 375 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: other forms of athletic. 376 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 2: Totally, and that is another aspect I feel really grateful 377 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 2: for that I still can do some exercise. There are 378 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 2: certain forms of what I have with certain gene mutations 379 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 2: where I really couldn't do anything other than walk, but 380 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 2: that's not my situation. So I can lift weights, and 381 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 2: I appreciate that I can do that. I decided I 382 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: needed some sort of in person exercise that would just 383 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 2: feel a little bit more I don't know consuming, I guess, 384 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 2: so I decided to try pilates, and it turned out 385 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,239 Speaker 2: I do enjoy it. Kind of brings me back to 386 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 2: my like gymnastics or cheerleading days a little bit, and 387 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 2: it's just kind of a little bit inherently fun. 388 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: So that's great. 389 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 2: I think the one thing that's still missing for me 390 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 2: is the social aspect of running. Since I had some 391 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 2: great running friends i'd see many mornings that I don't 392 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: see much of anymore, and just the big hobby aspect. 393 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 2: It was also something fun I shared with my husband 394 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 2: because you know, we qualified for Boston together at the 395 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 2: same race. And yeah, I feel like I'm still in 396 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 2: search of something to kind of replace that void life. 397 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: All right, Well, a goal for the next year, for sure. 398 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: We're going to take one more quick ad break and 399 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: then I will be back with more from Sarah hart Unger. 400 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: So I am back talking with Sarah hart Hunger, who's 401 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: the author of the brand new book which is out 402 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: next week called Best Laid Plans. Some of you may 403 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: recognize her as my co host on the Best of 404 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: Both Worlds podcasts as well. So, Sarah, one of the 405 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: things we've been talking about on this show more in 406 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: the last few months as evening rituals. So obviously Before 407 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: Breakfast is all about mornings as well, but how we 408 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: end the day matters as well. And you mentioned you're 409 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: kind of a going to bed sort of early person. 410 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 1: I wonder what your evenings look like, if you have 411 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: any rituals that you are thinking make life better Right now. 412 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 2: I love reading, so I almost always read before bed, 413 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 2: so that's one thing. And I have come to terms 414 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 2: with myself that after a certain point in the day 415 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 2: I'm not going to be very productive, and I think 416 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 2: it was helpful to just be like, this is kind 417 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 2: of your experiencing heyng out time rather than getting things 418 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 2: done time. Once I realized that I could settle into 419 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: it a little bit more. So, I'm super excited to 420 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 2: hear what is in the book Golden Hours, but I 421 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 2: hope there's a lot of room for like just hanging 422 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 2: out with your family and sitting on the couch. 423 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: Well, definitely, I mean we all we talk about is 424 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: like thirty minute intentions. Is there something you want to 425 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: do for thirty minutes and it sounds like reading? Is 426 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 1: that for you? How do you figure out what you're 427 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: going to read next? 428 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 3: Yeah? 429 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 2: I always have a few books that I've had recommended 430 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 2: to me. They're sitting on a list somewhere, or I 431 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 2: put them on my library holds list and then they 432 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 2: come in. Like recently, someone had mentioned the book Culpability 433 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 2: and they said, oh, it has Ai and it was 434 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 2: like kind of like White Lotus, and I was like, okay, 435 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 2: I'm so sold. And then it happened to come from 436 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 2: my library and I read it in a few days 437 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 2: because it was just so good. Mostly in the evenings, Yeah, wonderful. 438 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 2: So nonfiction in the morning, fiction in the evening, if 439 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 2: you want to read. 440 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: Like Sarah here, So Sarah, I ask all my guests 441 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: this question, what is something you have done recently to 442 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 1: take a day from great to awesome? 443 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 2: Anytime that I can get out and experienced some kind 444 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 2: of event that I had planned for my future self 445 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 2: is really really fun and exciting and so. 446 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 3: Well, this was kind of a fail, but it was 447 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 3: also a success. 448 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 2: So the other day my friend and I she wanted 449 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 2: me to come try out her pilate studio. And this 450 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 2: took a little bit of doing. It also took my 451 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 2: wonderful family not minding me leaving on a weekend to 452 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 2: go to a workout class kind of in the meal 453 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 2: of the afternoon. But we planned it in and I 454 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 2: went and I had a great time. And even though 455 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 2: it seems like a small thing, it was friend time. 456 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: It was a different type of exercise, and it was 457 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 2: just sort of like something we had come up with 458 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 2: that had come to fruition. So I would say, like 459 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 2: making little plans with friends and then enjoying them when 460 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 2: they happened. 461 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: But wait, why was there You said there was something 462 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: of a fail to it. I'm curious. 463 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 2: Well, yes, so it was also supposed to be our 464 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 2: friends giving and my husband was going to join us 465 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 2: there later, but they drove on a nail And yeah, 466 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: but at least I got to hang out with my friend. 467 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: Bestaid plans as we say, they did. Yeah, because things 468 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: that we planned don't always work out right. But that 469 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: doesn't mean you shouldn't. 470 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I totally agree. And in fact, you know, 471 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 2: my friend and I were laughing about the fact that 472 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 2: it didn't happen but they're like, well, at least we 473 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 2: kind of have the men you figured out, because we 474 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 2: picked another date that we're going to do it. And 475 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 2: the truth is, let's say you for every ten things 476 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 2: you plan, eight of them happen. And I do think 477 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 2: you should always try your best to make sure you 478 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 2: can have them happen. But actually his battery then died 479 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 2: as he was changing the tire and we're like an 480 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 2: hour away, so like it could not happen. We just 481 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 2: had to like wave the white flag at that point. 482 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 2: You know that one couldn't happen. But if eight out 483 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 2: of ten things do happen, that's still a lot of 484 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 2: great things. 485 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, and many of those might not happen if we 486 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: were just trying to, you know, see how life went. 487 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 2: Oh, none of them would happen. I mean, like one 488 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 2: of them would serendipitously happen. I'll take eight over one. 489 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, eight over one is a good ratio. So, Sarah, 490 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: what are you looking forward to right now? 491 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 2: I am looking forward to my family trip to Montana 492 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 2: to go skiing. It's actually our fourth time. We're big 493 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 2: repeaters of destination. But I am just I have very 494 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 2: busy month of December ahead. I'm going in with a 495 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 2: very clear head. I know how much time I have 496 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 2: and what I need to get done in those weeks. 497 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,959 Speaker 2: But you know, there's like a light at the end 498 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 2: of the tunnel. And I'm also looking forward to my 499 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 2: book coming out into the world. That's been a long 500 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 2: time calming and I'm just very excited to share it 501 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 2: with everyone. 502 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, so everyone can check out the book Best 503 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: Laid Plans by Sarah hart Unger. So, Sarah, where can 504 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: people find you? 505 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,959 Speaker 2: Yes, so, well, you can find me with Laura of 506 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 2: course at Best of Both Worlds podcasts. You can find 507 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 2: me on Best Laid Plans podcasts, and you can find 508 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 2: me at my website, which is the shoebox dot com 509 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 2: th e s h u box dot com. You can 510 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: find all my show notes, you can find book information 511 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 2: everything else there. 512 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: Excellent. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for joining us. 513 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: Thank you to everyone for listening. If you have feedback 514 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: on this or any other episode, you can always reach 515 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 1: me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. In the meantime, 516 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and here's to making 517 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: the most of our time. Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. 518 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach 519 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 1: me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast 520 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts from iHeartMedia, 521 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 522 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.