1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Whatever business you're in, growth isn't just about getting bigger. 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: At ADP, we believe it's about getting stronger. By turning 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: data into insights so you can build teams that work 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: as teams, by using our AI technology to help catch 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: payroll errors before their errors, and by keeping ahead of 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: thousands of changing regulations so you can keep ahead of 7 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: everything else. ADP helps businesses like yours grow stronger every day. 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: ADP hr talent, time and payroll, as up Man called those. 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: Miller of the eighty five South Show and do me favors, 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: make sure you check out The Black Market, hostly by 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: me only on the eighty five South Show. Fee subscribe 12 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: to the eighty five South Show to hear and tune 13 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: into the black Market. Here amazing interviews with entrepreneurs, creatives 14 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: and thought leaders to people who are doing amazing things 15 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: in the black community. Listen to The Black Market on 16 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: my Heart radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you listen 17 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: to podcast Piece of the Planet, Charlemagne the God Here 18 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: and you don't want to miss Hello Somebody with Senator 19 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: Nina Turner on the Black Effect Podcast Network. I love 20 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: Hello Somebody simply because I love Nina Turner. She's feeless turner, 21 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: hell raising, humanitarian, sister in the struggle, and recovering elected official. 22 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: Listen to Hello Somebody every Thursday on the Heart Radio 23 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: at Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome 24 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: to Money Making Conversations. It's the show that she has 25 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,279 Speaker 1: the secrets of success experience firsthand by marketing and Brandon 26 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: expert Rashan McDonald. I will know he's giving me advice 27 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: on many occasions. In the case you didn't notice, I'm 28 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: not broke, you know, he'll be interviewing celebrity CEOs, entrepreneurs 29 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: and industry decision makers. It's what he likes to do. 30 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: It's what he likes to share. Now it's tim to 31 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: here from my man, ra Sean McDonald money Making Conversations. 32 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: Here we come. Welcome to Money Making Conversation. I have 33 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 1: your host, ra Sean McDonald. I'll tell people every week 34 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: as we start this show it's time to stop reading 35 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: other people's success stores and actually start writing your own. 36 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: A lot of people are held back. I always tell 37 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 1: people you here by gifts you hear about passion. I 38 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: tell people to leave with their gifts and don't let 39 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: their age, especially their age friends family or co workers 40 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: stop you from planning or living your dream. My interviews 41 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: I bring on money main conversations you might see with 42 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: celebrity ceo, entrepreneurs, and what I like to call industry 43 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 1: decision makers. My next guest is a Craig Melvine. He's 44 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: the co host of the Today Show and the author 45 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: of the book Pops Learning to Be a Son and 46 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: the Father. You may know Crickets and the war winning 47 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: news anchor. As I said earlier on the Today Show. 48 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: You also have seen him on MSNBC Live and the 49 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: host of Dateline. He's on the show discussed this book, 50 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: Pops Learning to Be a Son and the Father. It's 51 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: the story of all the father figures in Craig's life 52 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: and that includes inspiring men from his program on his 53 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: series called Dad's Got this series on NBC NBC News Today. 54 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: These experiences, encounters of shapes, creates understanding of his own 55 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: role as a dad. And I'm sure I can be 56 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: related and we'll have a nice conversation. Since Father's Day 57 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: has recently passed. He has two young children. Please wop 58 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: me the money making conversation, my man, Craig Melvin, how 59 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: you doing, Craig Sean, I'm well, I'm well, thank you 60 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: so much for having me always enjoy your conversation. So 61 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: I have to be a part of one. Thank you man. 62 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: Southern boy, South Carolina. Okay, you know, uh, you know 63 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: when I when I see people on TV and you 64 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: so articulate, there's no yaws, there's no access. How does 65 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: a man come straight out of Columbian? I know color 66 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: because Steve Harvey. I used to go down a lot 67 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: of performative town center selling that place out all the time. 68 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: So I'm fair familiar with South Carolina, Charleston, that whole 69 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: low country. There's no low country in your tone? What's 70 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: going on there? Are you? Are you break that low 71 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: country accent? Low country accent? Because I didn't ever I 72 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: never had my mom. Uh, you'll appreciate this growing up 73 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: in Houston, Uh, the way that you grew up. My 74 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: mom grew up in the projects and first in the 75 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: family to go to college and first in the family 76 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: to get a graduate degree. So when we came along, 77 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: she wanted to expose us to two things and places 78 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: that she had not been exposed to. And consequently, I 79 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: think it's I was probably fourteen or fifteen, and she 80 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: had us uh take part in these oratorical contests. Um 81 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: and and that was was kind of how it started. 82 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: So I took some public speaking classes and then these 83 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: oratorical contests, and then the next thing you knew, I 84 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: had what they what they like to call in the 85 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: business a nondescript dialect. Right, you can't really tell based 86 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: on listening to me where I'm from. It's a blessing. Now. 87 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: When I was growing up, it was always he's to 88 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: white absolutely he talks, liked when he talks second white boy. 89 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: So it's you know, it's it was a curse. Now 90 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: it's a blessing. Well, you know, it's interesting because I 91 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: knew in my middle school. I remember my teacher used 92 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: to always ask me to read, just always ask me 93 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: to read. And you know, people talk about bullying, and 94 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: you know when you people are talking about they call 95 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: you snowflake. That was a talma bully. And then so 96 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: it's it's popularized now because people are willing to talk 97 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: about it. But we all grew up in some form 98 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: of physical or mental abuse from high school kids or 99 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: people in the neighborhood. And my remember this, this this girl, 100 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: she made such a big deal that I was always 101 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: asked to read that. It almost, I have to say, 102 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,799 Speaker 1: traumatized me because I went exactly the opposite. I wanted 103 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: to talk, I wanted to say, ain't I wanted to 104 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: have I wanted to slur my words. I wanted to 105 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: fit in. And so what you I bring that story 106 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: up because you talk about because you was hit with it. 107 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: You was hit, you know, talking why I didn't want 108 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: to act white you you're calling you snowflake? What keept 109 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: you focused? What kept you from from fearing off? Like 110 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: I heared off? I veered off and I said, hey, man, 111 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: I want to fit in and not beat me. You know, 112 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: I think it was And I write about in the 113 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: book my mother. My mother really sean. I mean she 114 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: um she she kept us on the straight and narrow 115 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: at the time. Uh. We we resented the strictness. I 116 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: mean my mom, she knew all of our friends, all 117 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: of the parents. We weren't allowed to stay out past 118 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: you know, during the week maybe nine o'clock, maybe on 119 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: the weekends when kids were going to parties and having fun. 120 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: I was doing oratorical contests and activities. And I went 121 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: to in high school. I think I probably went to 122 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: maybe three high school football games on Friday night. I 123 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: just I didn't. I grew up on a very tight leash, right, um. 124 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: And And plus of it was my mother overcompensating for 125 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: for my father not being the kind of dad that 126 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: he should have been. But part of it was mom knew. 127 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: She knew back then, I think kind of what it took. 128 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: She was a school teacher and then she went into 129 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: an administration. She knew what it took um to to 130 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: shape and mold young black boys, especially right, and and 131 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: that was it. Had it not been for her, had 132 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: I grown up in another house, we wouldn't be having 133 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: this conversation right now. Well, you know I writing your book, 134 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: you know the book we're talking for talking to interviewer 135 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: Craig Melvin, his book Pops, Learning to Be a Son 136 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: and the Father. Is it because the fact that your 137 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: father wasn't there, that she may be overcompensated and wanted 138 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: to make sure you didn't you had a better life, 139 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: or you pursued the options even though I knew she 140 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: went to college and think in the age of twenty 141 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: two is when she became pregnant with you. But talk 142 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: about that in the middle because as we talked about 143 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: trying to shape you because of the fact that you've 144 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: been shaped by a lot of people, especially to the 145 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: stories we're gonna talk about. The the president incident when 146 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: you was out of camp grades had that really kind 147 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: of like started you in this direction of humanizing all men, 148 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: especially men who are incost already talk about your mom, 149 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: mom and her role versus your dad role because you 150 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: mentioned it just a little bit, but that sent us 151 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: around us getting into the story and your father changed 152 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: his life at the age of six or seven. Mom, Yeah, mom, Mom. 153 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: Mom had to play the role of mom and dad 154 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: for the better part of my childhood. Um, it was, 155 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: it was. It was a role that she was. Yeah, 156 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: she was unfortunately well prepared for it because she ended 157 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: up she had to take care of her three younger siblings. 158 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: UM when she was in college and her father skipped 159 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: out of the family, ended up essentially dying on the 160 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: streets and square. But no a mom. Because my father 161 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: was not physically present as often as I would have liked, 162 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: and my younger brother would have liked my older brother 163 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: as well. Mom stepped in the trip to fill the gap. 164 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: She filled she filled a boy and not just not 165 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: just being present in a sense of sean a little 166 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: league games or soccer games, or or con service. Not 167 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: just physically president, but but but emotionally president, right A 168 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: spiritually present. I mean that the relationship that I have 169 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: uh with God is because of my mother's relationship with God. 170 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 1: So it was it was divine intervention. You know, had 171 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: I had any other mother, things would not have gone 172 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: the way that they did. But you know it's it's 173 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: also and I write about in the book as you know, 174 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: and I do appreciate the fact that you read the book. 175 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: You'd be surprised how often to talk to people about 176 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: books and they hadn't read word one. But I can 177 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: tell you read the whole thing. And I write about 178 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: in the book. My father. I asked him doing the 179 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: course of my my interviews with him for the book, 180 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: I said, Pops, what was the most money you ever 181 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: was sed h Without missing a beat, he said it 182 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: was about fifts back in nineteen six. I said, that 183 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: was a lot of money back then, when you spend 184 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: that money on he said, that's how much. That's how 185 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: much it cost to put my daddy in the ground. 186 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: And in that moment I realized, um that while I 187 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: had been frustrated by the lack of relationship I had 188 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: with my dad. It was exponentially better than the relationship 189 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: he had with his own father. Right, he didn't know 190 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: who his dad was until he was almost a teenager, 191 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: So it was it was wholly unrealistic of me to 192 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: expect him to be the kind of dad that I 193 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: had had come to to to idolize. He couldn't be 194 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: it because he hadn't seen it, And you can't be 195 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: something that. It's really hard to be something. Yes, if 196 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: if you if you haven't seen it, if you haven't 197 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: been exposed to it. So that's what my dad was 198 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: up against. It's finally here the season of celebration, and 199 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: no matter how you celebrate with family and friends, whether 200 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: you're preparing for Reyus Magos or Karamu lighting the Manura, 201 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: are going to midnight Mass, Coles has just what you 202 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: need to make those traditions special. Plus you'll find gifts 203 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: for all your loved ones. Send warm wish is with 204 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: cozy fleeces, sweaters, loungeware, blankets and throws. Support minority owned 205 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: or founded brands by giving gifts from Human Nation and shame, 206 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: moisture or treat them to everyone's favorite active wear from 207 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: top brands like Nike, Adidas, and under Armor. And in 208 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: the spirit of giving, Coals Cares is donating eight million 209 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: dollars to local nonprofits nationwide committed to the health and 210 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: well being of our communities. No matter how you celebrate, 211 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: when you shop at Coals, you're right where you belong. 212 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: So this season, give with all your heart with great 213 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: gifts from Coals or Coals dot com. What grows in 214 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: the forest trees? Sure no? What else grows in the forest, 215 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds 216 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect 217 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is 218 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: closer than you think. Find a forest near you and 219 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: start exploring a Discover the Forest dot Org brought to 220 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: you by the United States Forest Service and the ad Council. 221 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: What grows in the forest trees? Sure you know? What 222 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, 223 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect 224 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. 225 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest 226 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,719 Speaker 1: near you and start exploring. I Discover the Forest dot org, 227 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: brought to you by the United States Forest Service and 228 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: the AD Council. You know, when I when I read 229 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: the book, you know, um, you know I heard shotgun house. Okay, 230 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: I grew up in there. I was born in the 231 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: shotgun house. Two very shotgun house. A lot of people. 232 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: If you're listening to shotgun house, over to the front door, 233 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: shoot the gun out, shotgun out through the go out 234 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: the front back door. Don't hit anything that's a shotgun house. Okay, 235 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: you reference pig feats. Grew up with big feast, my man, hey, 236 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: Greg a touch, but big fees to or part of 237 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: our lifestyle. And so that's the Southern I from Houston, Texas. 238 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: I'm from the South. It was it was a lifestyle 239 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: that was normal to me. But it was also a 240 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: community lifestyle of people taking care of each other, and 241 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: that was really important. Not only your dad, even though 242 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: there were some missteps, there were still people there to 243 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: take care of him, you know, to make sure he 244 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: was focused, to shout at him as he became an adult. 245 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: There were people in the community. That's really important in 246 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: this book that no matter what, there's some form of 247 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: family tied to your story and the people in your 248 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: life talk about that, you know, it's a it's it's 249 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: funny because long before people started talking about it taking 250 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: a village, uh to to to rear a child, I 251 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: had a village. You know, it wasn't called that back 252 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: back in the eighties in South Carolina, back in the 253 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: eighties and nineties when I grew up. But I had 254 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: a village. And and yes, there were a number of 255 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 1: men who played the role of dad alone the way 256 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: my uncle James, my uncle Jake, my uncle frank Um. 257 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: But there were also a lot of women that that 258 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: that played the part as well. I was disciplined, and 259 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: I think that's the politically correct term I was. I 260 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: was disciplined by more women growing up than men, whether 261 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: it's my mom or one of my aunts and my grandma. 262 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time with my two grandmothers 263 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: growing up, and they really shaped me in myriad ways 264 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: that I didn't fully appreciate until I was older. But 265 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: and then after that, I had coaches along the way. 266 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: I always God always blessed me with with with people 267 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: along the road, right, Uh. That that gave me a 268 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: little part of something that I was. I was able 269 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: to take and build on. Right. It's difficult for young 270 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: black men especially, it's it's difficult to to learn how 271 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: to carry yourself in this world, um with without examples 272 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: of it. And I had lots of examples, thankfully along 273 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: the way. But the reality is, you know, Sean, a 274 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: lot of kids don't have that. A lot of kids 275 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: don't they just you know, through no fault of their 276 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: own mind, they they don't have a mother or a father, 277 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: or an uncle or an aunt to take their hands 278 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: on this journey of life. And so they end up 279 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: finding role models, uh that they should not be held up, 280 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: but that should not be on the battle still, and 281 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: they begin to to emulate them. You know. The thing 282 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: I really like about your book is that sometimes uh, 283 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: because my father was a truck driver, you know, so 284 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: you know, when he wasn't driving trucks, you know he 285 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: was he was he wasn't really connected to me. I 286 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: can I can tell you he was my father. I 287 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: can tell you that my mom was there for me. 288 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: My mom pushed me. My mom always felt that could 289 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: be somebody special in life. When your father showed up 290 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: for or ball game, that that memory. You don't know, 291 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: if you got to hit a home runner, got got 292 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: struck out over time you went up the bat, but 293 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: you remember that moment. And then when your mom rescued you, 294 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: when you thought, uh you had in an entered early fatherhood. 295 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: You know, those are two moments that really I bring 296 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: up those two moments prayer because despite of all the 297 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: things we do in our life, there are always memories 298 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: that really some haunt people, some inspire people. Your father 299 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: showing up for your game and your mom basically coming 300 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: to the rescue because she did something that enabled you 301 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: to relax. Talk about those two key moments of parenting. 302 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: Even though your father wasn't there, that was a key 303 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: parenting moment that he provided for you that stays with 304 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: you today. It probably cares into your parenty with your 305 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: with your children today and then your mom being there 306 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: for you at a moment of doubt, frustration, fear. But 307 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: both of them were there at different times. I mean, 308 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: you're you're you're talking about Department book where I am. 309 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: I almost became a teenage father. I was almost a 310 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: statistic at the age of fourteen. Uh No, that's I 311 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: made a a bad choice. I made a bad choice, 312 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: and you know what I write about it because I 313 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: wrote about it because I wanted people to understand. Uh, 314 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: there but for the grace of God go I and 315 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: and and and I think a lot of folks can 316 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: relate to this, this idea that you know, there's that 317 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: night or sometimes that day, but usually it's it's that 318 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: night where you went left, but you could have gone 319 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: right right right, and and and had you made a 320 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: different decision, it would have altered the course of your 321 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: life in a dramatic way. Um, that almost happened to me. 322 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: I got lucky and and and at that point in 323 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: my life, I was I didn't have much of relationship 324 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: with my father. I was I was afraid of my mother. Uh, 325 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: definitely afraid. I couldn't talk to her about it. And 326 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: it was a situation where you know, this young lady 327 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: was convinced she was pregnant, and I like, I had 328 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: to I had to do something. This was not one 329 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 1: of the situations where in action was an option. And 330 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: uh and I write in the book about how I 331 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: went to my my aunt, and it was my aunt 332 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: that finally convinced me that I had no choice but 333 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: to talk to my mother. But my mom has always 334 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: been long before we started calling people fixers. My mom 335 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: was a fixer like it was. It was that that 336 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: obviously was an extreme example, but there were so many 337 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: other times in my life where I thought I was 338 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: out an option. I didn't know what I was gonna do, 339 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: and I prayed to God and put trust in Betty 340 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: Joe Melvine and and Betty Joe Melvine always came through 341 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: and still does now. Mind you, in a different way, 342 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: my dad, you know, rute about that, that that part 343 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: in the book with Shan where he showed up at 344 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: my little league game, and the memory steed with me 345 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: because it was so rare to that point my dad. 346 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 1: Uh And and again now looking back on it, knowing 347 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: what we know about addiction, about it being a disease 348 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: and not a weakness, I understand why he wasn't there. 349 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: I understand why he had walled himself off from our 350 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: family and society at large. But back then I was 351 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: a kid, you know, I was a kid, and one 352 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: of my my my dad to to be proud of 353 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: me and see me, uh and certainly watch watch my 354 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: little league games. And so when he showed up that evening, 355 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: I saw him down the third base line there on 356 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: the on the fence. It's a it's a memory that 357 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: that stayed with me because it was so weird that 358 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: being said. Now, um, he's everywhere, like you know, he 359 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: was up. Two weeks ago, my son had a soccer game. 360 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 1: My dad was right there with me on the sideline 361 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: and thirty seconds in my my boy hadn't scored a 362 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: goal all season. Thirty seconds in, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, 363 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: shoot score first goal of the game. And and me 364 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 1: and my pops are half five and like he had 365 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: just won a green jacket and Augusta. And we're live 366 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for the 367 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: and there they go, almost on time. This morning. Mom 368 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: is coming out the front door, strong with a double 369 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: arm kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter 370 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag 371 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. But mom has 372 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. 373 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about 374 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. 375 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: Dad SIPs the bag clothes and they're off, but looks 376 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on 377 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: the roof of the car, and there it goes. Oh, 378 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: that's a shame that mug was a fan favorite. Don't 379 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: sweat the small stuff, just nailed the big stuff, like 380 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right 381 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: seat for their agent's eyes. Learn more n h t 382 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: s A dot gov slash the Right Seat visits h 383 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: s A dot gov slash the Right Seat, brought to 384 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: you by MIZZA and the AD Council. Look for your 385 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. 386 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: It's a storybook world for them. You look and see 387 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard 388 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. 389 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: They see a windy path that could lead to adventure, 390 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: and they see you. They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? 391 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: Find a forest near you and start exploring a Discover 392 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: the Forest dot org brought to you by the United 393 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: States Force Service and the AD Council. Look for your 394 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. 395 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: It's a storybook world for them. You look and see 396 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: a tree, they see the wrinkled face of a wizard 397 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles, 398 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: They see a windy path that could lead to adventure, 399 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: and they see you. They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? 400 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: Find a forest near you and start exploring a Discover 401 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 1: the Forest dot org. Brought to you by the United 402 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: States Force Service and the ad Council. You know, UM 403 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: it was. The book is um an emotional book. I 404 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: would say emotional because I told people when I get 405 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: a book like this, after slow read it, because sometimes 406 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: they hit points where I go, oh ho, I'm about 407 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: to about to go there and not let me finish 408 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: this moment. And because I remember a moment with my dad, 409 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: uh two when I owned a comedy club and my 410 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: dad had never ever been to anything I've been, and 411 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: he just showed up at the comedy club and uh 412 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: it was sold out and I looked at the lobbists. 413 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: What you're doing? Her? Dad? He goes, I come to 414 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: see my son, and he looked around. He looked, wow, 415 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: this you this you this you? And I went, uh, yes, sir, yes, 416 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: sir you. Because I always said cirtain to my dad 417 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: and uh he said. He he said, I'm proud of 418 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: your son, and and and like I said, this is 419 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: because that's what the book did to me as a dad. 420 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: Because when you start talking about incarceration, and you talked 421 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: about when you're talking, you said earlier, right, turn, left, 422 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: turn those turns. I always say that. When I was 423 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: in college, you know, you you played the fraternity. I 424 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: played to make a side fire, and you always do 425 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: stupid things. I remember the Big brothers said, we want 426 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: some plants. Well, we didn't have no money, and so 427 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: I remember just this giant open field where they had 428 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,959 Speaker 1: plants back in the day, and reminded the Lyon brothers. 429 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: We went and stole these plants. Man. I mean, if 430 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: you look back on the Craig from the freeway, you 431 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: would have seen those running across this field with these plants. Okay, 432 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: So anybody could have went, what are those black dudes 433 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: boys doing running with all these giant plants. And I 434 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: had a little Fiat X one nine, which is a 435 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: two seater, and the truck was in the front, so 436 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: I had to put the plants in the front. And 437 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 1: it were black and my winsil so all along the 438 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: way I could have stopped and stopped by the police 439 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: and been incarcerated, and my life could have changed on 440 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: that right turn left turn that you were talking about earlier. 441 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 1: You are meeting men who've done something far worse than 442 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: what I've talked about, but they have made a mistake. 443 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: And sometimes because they've made a mistake, we don't give 444 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: them a second chance because we feel that they're unworthy 445 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: of that second chance. And then in your book you 446 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: talk about guess what they are fathers too. Let's talk 447 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: about their journey of you doing a story I think 448 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: basically changed your life, and it started with Camp Grace. Yeah, 449 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: it was one of the most impactful stories I've ever done. Uh, 450 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: there's a I don't even remember how we found out 451 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: about this camp, but um, I was probably reading some 452 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: article in an obscure publication about this um summer camp 453 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: at a maximum security prison in uh California. Salina's State 454 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: Valley Prison was the name of the facility, and for 455 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: one week every summer um they bring in about a 456 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: dozen or so kids to basically have a camp experience 457 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: with their dad's I mean, you know, arts and crafts, 458 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: and they play games, and they sing songs and they 459 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: do all this stuff. That do out of camp. And 460 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: these kids are between the ages of you know, seven 461 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: or eight and in fifteen or sixteen, and the guys 462 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 1: who are part of the program have to UM exhibit 463 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: good behavior for a full year. The camp is a 464 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: it's a privilege. And UM. I went out and spend 465 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: some time talking to these guys and it ended up 466 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: being just an emotional day because these these are being 467 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: First of all, most of them are not going to 468 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: be getting out of prison. I mean they've some of 469 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: them have have have been convicted of doing some pretty 470 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: heinous things. UM. But the two women that started the camp, 471 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: both of their husbands were incarcerated and consequently weren't really 472 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: a part of the child's lives. They would get the 473 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: occasional visit, you know, on a weekend and you've got 474 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: the glass, and but they weren't able to really be 475 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: a part of the child's lives. So they came up 476 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: the side there for a camp and I talked to 477 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: one of the guys out there, and I asked him 478 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: the question I knew a lot of people are going 479 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: to be asking when they watched them or read the story, 480 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: how can someone um accused of some of the things 481 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: these guys were accused of. How in what universe do 482 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 1: they deserve the right to spend time with with it 483 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: with the child. And without missing a beat, he said 484 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: to me, tears in his eyes. Um, they might be right. 485 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: I may not deserve it, but you know what, credit 486 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: my kids do, Like my kids deserve to know their father. 487 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 1: They didn't do anything wrong, They didn't make any bad choices. Uh. 488 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: At his larger point, and I think this was just 489 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: a valid If we're serious about stopping the prison pipeline 490 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 1: that we always talk about, then we need to make 491 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: sure that kids of of incarcerated individuals have relationships with them. 492 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: He spent a fair amount of his time talking to 493 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: his daughter about choice, this making good choices, not ending 494 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: up where he ended up. It's a fantastic program, and 495 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: it moved me. It also moved me, Sean because my grandmother, 496 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: and it's the first line in the book. Not to 497 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: give away too much, but you know my my grandmother. 498 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: Uh Now, when I knew her, she was here, she 499 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: was going to church, at the church or coming home 500 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,479 Speaker 1: from church. Like she she only loved the Lord, but 501 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: apparently long before I came along. But this just just 502 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: say she's a bootleg. I want to give it no 503 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: more than that. Just say she's a bootleg. I don't 504 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: want to give her the earther part. Okay, she's a bootlegger. 505 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: She was a bootlegger. She was a bootlegger. And and 506 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,239 Speaker 1: and and got a second chance, Yes he did. And 507 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: had she not gotten a second chance, who's to say 508 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: whether I would be here right now, you know. But 509 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: it is the thing I want to point out about 510 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: that now, his grandmother was in the same jail that 511 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: Martha Stewart was in. So she got how many chances 512 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: as she's got, Okay, but in the same for Selity 513 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: down and so so when I when I when I 514 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: read the book and and and and and it's, like 515 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: I said, an emotional journey because it's your story. But 516 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: it's a relatable story because I remember when my younger 517 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,479 Speaker 1: brother was incarcerated in California and uh glass talking and 518 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,959 Speaker 1: uh and I was in tears, and and and he 519 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: told me he couldn't cry. He's I reached. I can't cry. 520 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: I keep they can't, he said, I kidd and my 521 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: nicknames Ricky Ricky, I can't cry because they see me 522 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: crying out here. I pay a price when I go 523 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: back inside and in that book, you know, you know, 524 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 1: when you interview and he said, look, he said, thank 525 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: god I have a sale by myself because now I 526 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: can't cry. And so I love the fact that you 527 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: were humanizing people because we we see these we see this, 528 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: we see the violent size, and nobody's trying to downplay that. 529 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: But we have made mistakes. There are people on the 530 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: other side of this that have to deal with the 531 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: emotionalities of kids, and like one of them said, look, um, 532 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: it's all right early on when you're playing all to 533 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: you plan catch, but when it become teens, the conversation 534 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: becomes different. And that's what fatherhood's all about, which leads 535 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: to your whole life or being a father, being connected 536 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: to your dad and not being a present day father. 537 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: Let's talk about that great, you know it. I think 538 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: that I think that you can be shaped by negative examples, um, 539 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: just as much as you can be shaped by positive examples. 540 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: In fact, I think in so many instances, maybe even 541 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: more so so. You know, growing up, I didn't know 542 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: the kind of man that I wanted to be. I 543 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: didn't certainly know the kind of father that I wanted 544 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: to be. But up until a few years ago, I 545 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,479 Speaker 1: knew I didn't want to be anything of anything like 546 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: my dad. Yes, um and and and and that was 547 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: what what motivated me personally and professionally, probably to a 548 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: certain extent now that I'm talking about it. But no, 549 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: it's it's it's funny because I have to remind my 550 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: kids sometimes and I have a job, and and and 551 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: consequently I cannot be at their back and call uh 552 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: day and night. Because you know, when my dad was 553 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: there when we were younger, it was it was big, 554 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: like it was a wedding or funeral or graduation or 555 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: that that Little League game that I write about that 556 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: I remember because it was so weird. Dad didn't show 557 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: up with stuff, in part because he worked third shift 558 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: at the post office, but in larger part because because 559 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: of the addiction issues that he had. UM. So as 560 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: a result, I'm going to the other end of the spectrum. 561 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: So if you know, I'm there for soccer games and 562 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: my daughter had a gymnastics recital last Sunday morning, and 563 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: you know, some I'm physically present as often as and 564 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: as much as I can to you know, pick I 565 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: do school pick up, and I'm trying to do it 566 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: all because you know, my dad didn't do any other no. No. 567 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: The problem that that that you create when you do that, 568 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: and it took me a while to pigure this out. 569 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: I've created expectations. So if if I'm not there to go, 570 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,239 Speaker 1: Daddy has got to travel for work, Well Daddy, why 571 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: can't you can you take a later flight? And they 572 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: can you go tomorrow? And I've had to say a 573 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,719 Speaker 1: few times, you know that it's the job that pays 574 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: for all of this. You don't get to go to 575 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: dance or you don't get to go the soccer if 576 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: daddy's not hopping on playing. So that that's the that's 577 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: the that's the the unfortunate part. But there you know 578 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: they're starting to understand. But it's funny as you become 579 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: a parent, how you at some point become you become 580 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: the kind of for me at least, the kind of 581 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: father that I used to mock. Yes, hate it when 582 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: my dad would talk about, you know how much something costs. 583 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: You don't have money, and and when we were younger, 584 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: we didn't like he wasn't lying, Like we knew we 585 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of money. We had enough with 586 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: my kids, you know I've said a few times and 587 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: we can't afford this, and myself and I'm missing the 588 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: beetles say yes we can again and I'm like, and 589 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: then you then you find yourself trying to come up 590 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: with a new excuse like, uh, well maybe we can't 591 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: afford it, but that we don't need it. You don't 592 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: need that, right right, right, It's hard, And I know 593 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: we're about to wrap up. I want to bring up 594 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: a very um, a fun moment as a parent, and 595 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: I want to share with you because you wrote about 596 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: it when your son climbed into bed, and you know, 597 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: and then your kids when they sleep. If you if 598 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: you don't have kids children off you got a very 599 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: young child. When they climb in the bed, they forget 600 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: you in bed. They kids about the worst sleepers in 601 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: the world, especially when they get that six to ten 602 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: years of age were sleep And so when you said 603 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: that in the book, you said you you may miss that. 604 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: I remember I talked to my daughter when she was 605 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: like seventeen. I said, hey, what you what your hopping 606 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: bed and watch the TV? Ship what you're talking about? 607 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: I said, you know, can we not watching TV? Can 608 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: we not watch TV? Together? And then when used to go, 609 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: I don't do that no more, Dad, No, no, we're 610 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: not doing that. So I would tell you this, Craig, 611 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: that moment brought brought laughter to me. It brought back 612 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: memories as your book, you know, the amazingly good book 613 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: Pops Learning to Be a Son and the Father Man. Uh, 614 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: it's a great read. And like I said, it slowed 615 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: me when I said the words slowed me because I 616 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: was becoming emotional because, like I said, my father was 617 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: a beer drinker. My father worked hard as a truck driver. 618 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: My father, like I said, was he in my life? 619 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: I don't know, But did he shape me to be 620 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: the man I am today? Yes he did because he 621 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: had a role in it and that that role has 622 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: made me to be the man I am. I like 623 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: to believe I'm a good parent to my daughter, a 624 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: good husband to my wife. And those are the things 625 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: that that the stories that you tell out of this book, 626 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: from the incarcerated to individuals who raised you as a family, 627 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: the community, and whether teachers who shaped you as third grade, 628 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: teachers who shaped you as as you go through life 629 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: and you went to school and you didn't wanna didn't 630 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: want to shame your Ancle when you didn't play cap oppside, 631 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: but it was all good man. I love your book, Craig. 632 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: I want to appreciate you for putting it out there. Man, 633 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for your time. I've enjoyed this conversation. 634 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: You're very good at what you do. Thank you for 635 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: having Okay, we talked soon, man, I'm gonna put this on. 636 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: I got look, I got a nice little social media 637 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: I'm gonna put that out there and my news letter. 638 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: We're gonna get that out there for you. Okay, Craig, 639 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: All right, bye bye. If you want to see you 640 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: here in my interviews and money making Conversation, please go 641 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: to want to Make a Conversation dot com. I'm with 642 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: Sean McDonald. I am your host. In this season of giving, 643 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 1: Coles has gifts for all your loved ones. 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Don't waste two perfectly good Saturdays each year. 662 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 1: Let us work our magic for you. Give us a 663 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: call and we'll give you back your Saturday's goal. One 664 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: under God Jump or visit one eight hundred got junk 665 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: dot com. I'm Sarahcustack. I'm the NBA analyst for the 666 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: S Network, and I'm hosting a new podcast called NBA Flashback. 667 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: NBA Flashback takes you back to the best moments in 668 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 1: NBA history through exclusive archival audio from the NBA Vault, 669 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,720 Speaker 1: and each week we'll have new interviews with the legends 670 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: who were actually on the court. 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