1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 2: This is the day at All Crashes and Barns. Yeah, hello, 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 2: and welcome to the Money Stuff Podcast. You're a weekly 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: podcast where we talk about stuff related to money. I'm 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: Matt Levigne and I write the Money Stuff column for 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Opinion. 7 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: I'm Katie Greifeld, a reporter for Bloomberg News and an 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: anchor for Bloomberg Television. I also write a newsletter called BTFIQ. 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 2: Katie, you're like gracing us with a little bit of 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 2: your presence between sessions at the big ETF conference. 11 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: Huh, Yeah, you know, we were well. I was joking 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: as I walked in ten minutes late. Matt had been 13 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: sitting here miked up. There's an ETF conference at Bloomberg. 14 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: It's Thursday when we're recording this. Matt's a celebrity in 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: a lot of context. I'm a celebrity in an ETF context, 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: and you know, walking through an ETF event, it's hard 17 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: to get anywhere on time. 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: I feel like this is a challenge and I'm gonna 19 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: have to come back to the ETF. 20 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, now you're gonna walk upstairs and everyone's 21 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: gonna just stop in their tracks. 22 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 2: Plimberg once side a crypto conference in which I interviewed 23 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 2: Sam Bankman Freed on stage. A real a real highlight. 24 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 2: But at a Boomberg crypto conference, I'm like a little 25 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: bit of a celebrity, and like before this interview, people 26 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: were coming up to me and being like, I'm a fan. 27 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 2: And then after this interview I walked back to the 28 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 2: green room with Sam Bankman Freed and like he yeah, 29 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 2: is a celebrity. Yeah, people were pushing each other as 30 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: loud to get to Sam Bankman Freed. 31 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: There's this is better times for him certainly. Levels Yeah, 32 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: that's a real uh like a time capse happened. 33 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was like it was like summer twenty twenty one. 34 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 2: I introduced him on stage, said something like Sam Bankman 35 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 2: Fried probably needs no introduction. He's probably bought most of 36 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: your companies. Like this is back between like when everything 37 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: else scratched and when. 38 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, like the Terror Luna stuff. 39 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 40 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: Man. Anyway, well, anyway, what are. 41 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: You talking about today, Katie. 42 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about the onions and info wars. We're 43 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: willing to talk about some proof that everything is securities fraud. 44 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: I've described that correctly, right, yeah, okay, and then we're 45 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: going to talk about Ken Peterman who was fired and 46 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: then right, but did he sit so the Onion, this 47 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: was interesting. I haven't checked in on this story in 48 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: a while, and then you published on it, and I 49 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: thought that the Onion was for sure buying info Wars. 50 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: That's the service level headline reading that I had done. 51 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: But turns out not exactly right. 52 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: So info Wars Alex Chrenz's company that he used to 53 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 2: spread various writing conspiracy theories, one of which is that 54 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: the Sandy Hook massacre was a hoax. The parents of 55 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: the Sandy Hook children who are killed suit him and 56 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 2: won like a billion dollars of damages, which is considerably 57 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: more money than Alex Chans and info Wars have, and 58 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 2: so they filed for bankruptcy, and you know, like kind 59 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 2: of that means that the Sandihug parents kind of own 60 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 2: his assets kind of, but like what it literally means 61 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: is that the bankruptcy trustee has an auction of the assets, 62 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: which is basically like the info Wars like company and 63 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: brand and website and stuff, and the highest bidder at 64 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 2: the auction wins the assets, and like the money from 65 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: the bid goes to Alex Jones's creditors, which means mainly 66 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: the Sandiak families, but there are also some other people 67 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: who he owes money to, either because he borrowed money 68 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,839 Speaker 2: from them or because they also sued him. And so 69 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: they had an auction and there were two bidders, and 70 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: one of them was this thing called First United American 71 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: Companies FUAK, which is like kind of Alex Jones. It's 72 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: like someone's putting up money for Alex Jones to buy 73 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: back Info Wars so you can continue running it his 74 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 2: Info Wars. And then the other bidder was the Onion 75 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: or it's corporate parrot, which has the great name Global 76 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: Tetrahedron llcfully great name, like really like the Onion. You know, 77 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: although at the corporate structure they're. 78 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: Committed to comedy, they committed to the bid. 79 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so they were they bid for the assets, 80 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 2: and they had less cash than FUAK, but what they 81 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 2: had was the support of the Sandy Hook parents because 82 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: if you think about the parents, like one thing they 83 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: want is money. Another thing they want is for Alex 84 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 2: Jones to stop running Info Wars and stop broadcasting conspiracy theories. 85 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 2: And then the third thing they want is that I 86 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: think they liked what the onions plans for info Wars were, 87 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 2: which is sort of like running as a satire of 88 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 2: the conspiracy side. And also I think you know, there 89 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 2: was like a teaming up with every Town for Gun Safety, 90 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,559 Speaker 2: the Eco Bloomberg fact initiative. They would use info Wars 91 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 2: in part to sort of work against gun violence. And 92 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: so the parents liked that plan and they supported it. 93 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: And so you had this auction in which on the 94 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 2: one side was a higher cash bid from FUAC and 95 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 2: on the other side was like the bid that was 96 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 2: supported by the Lion's share of the creditors. And so 97 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 2: the bankruptcy t you said that the Onion won, and 98 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: then FUEK went to court to stop it, and the 99 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 2: judge said, actually, this was not a fair auction. You 100 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 2: have to run the auction again and kind of give 101 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 2: it the highest bidter. 102 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: So is that what happens now that we have another auction. 103 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 2: I think what happens now is we have another auction. 104 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: And it seems like the decision was that the bankruptcy 105 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: trustees procedures weren't good enough, and like you can have 106 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: another auction where the Onion could win. The way it 107 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: worked is that FUEX bid was cash. It's three point 108 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 2: five million dollars. The Onion's bid was one point seventy 109 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 2: five million dollars in cash. And also the parents, the 110 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 2: Sandy Hook parents, signed a waiver basically saying whatever money 111 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: other creditors, other people who ALEX, JANDZ have money to 112 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,679 Speaker 2: whatever money the other creditors would get from any other bid, 113 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 2: they will get one hundred thousand dollars more from this 114 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 2: Onion bid. So basically, like you know, if the Onion 115 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 2: puts in one point seven five million dollars, as much 116 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:58,679 Speaker 2: as all of that can go to the other creditors, 117 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: whereas a FUEC puts in three five million dollars, you 118 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: know three quarters of that or something is going to 119 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: go to the Santiagog parents because they have most of 120 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: the claims and pankruptcy. And so because of that waiver, 121 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 2: they could go to the court and say, look, we 122 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 2: can guarantee that the other creditors will get more money 123 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: from our bid than from any other bid, and like, 124 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: these creditors support it. So it's the highest bid even 125 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 2: though it has less money. 126 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: Interesting, so what needs to happen in round two of 127 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: this auction for the Onion to be successful, do they 128 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: just simply need more money. 129 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 2: Well, so there's a couple of things. One is that 130 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: like the procedure at the auction got sort of wonky 131 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 2: at the end, where like it was supposed to be 132 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 2: an open auction and it sort of turned to a 133 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: sealed bid auction. And part of that is because the 134 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 2: Onion bid was we will pay one hundred thousand dollars 135 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 2: more than anyone else. So there's not really a point 136 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 2: of having multiple rounds of bids. But you could imagine 137 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 2: just structuring the bid again so that they can do 138 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 2: a more open auction and then sort of coming too 139 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: the same result. The other possibility is that, you know, 140 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: a reader suggested this to me, like if FUEX says, 141 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: this waiver from the parents isn't real, like it doesn't 142 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 2: count as real value. And I think the trustee argued, 143 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 2: and the Onion argues, and I think it's clearly true 144 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 2: that this is like a normal way to provide value 145 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: in bankruptcy. You know, I wrote about credit bids where 146 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 2: the creditor who has a mortgage on a house could 147 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: get that house without paying more cash for it. Because 148 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: they can bid the amount of their lean Here. You know, 149 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 2: these parents have a huge claim in the bankruptcy, and 150 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: if they're wave a portion of their claim, then that 151 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: provides value to the other creditors. But if you don't 152 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: like that, then the answer is finance it. The answer 153 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 2: is the onion could go out and borrow like two 154 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: million dollars from a bank and pay it back. That 155 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: two million dollars would then go to the Santiego parents 156 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: when they win the auction, and then they could rout 157 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 2: it back to the Onion and then to the bank. Right, 158 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: if the parents want a non financial benefit from this 159 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 2: and like are bidding a portion of their claims, you 160 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: could probably find a way to like get the bank 161 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: to put up the money and then have a circle 162 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 2: back to the bank. So that might be another thing 163 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: that happens here. 164 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: Do you think that something that that actually would? I mean, 165 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: how do the bids change? But also like how the 166 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: auction change is when it's run again. 167 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: I think that if the auction is run again it 168 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,559 Speaker 2: might be more transparent or whatever. But the trustee thinks 169 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: that the waiver of claims provides a lot of value, 170 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: and I think he's right. And it's sort of hard 171 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 2: to imagine the trustee changing his mind on that, And 172 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 2: I don't think the court ruled that he was wrong. 173 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 2: But you could imagine something where the Onion puts up 174 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: more cash and then gets the cash back so that 175 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 2: they have a higher optical cash bid, but like ultimately 176 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 2: come to the same place. 177 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: Well, this will be interesting to follow, but I kind 178 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: of wish that I just stayed in my ignorant little 179 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: bubble and only had read the first headline, because it 180 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: seems like really good poetic justice that the Onion, with 181 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: the backing of the parents would buy info wars. 182 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 2: I still would guess that that's what's going to happen. Yeah, 183 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 2: but I'm not sure. 184 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: Let's talk about Target. Do you remember the twenty twenty 185 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: three Pride marketing event from Target? 186 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: No? I remember solely the controversy about it. 187 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: I don't remember it either. I also remember the controversy, 188 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: but only very vaguely. 189 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 2: I mean, they had like LGBT Pride themed merchandise at 190 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: like the end of the aisle or something people got 191 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: really mad about. 192 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: It was this before or after the bud Light thing. 193 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: I want to say it was after the buddlet I think, 194 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 2: but I'm not sure. Man, is it around the same 195 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: time it was after. 196 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: The bud was after man, why do the companies keep 197 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: doing this? It led to a boycott, the stock went down. Yeah, 198 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: Target has a lot of problems that aren't related to this, 199 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: whereas it feels like the bud Light thing like really 200 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: jeopardized bud Light's position, as. 201 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 2: The bud Light thing was like a sort of switch 202 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 2: flipped on. 203 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, but in any case, security is fraud. 204 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 2: So you do something in the stock goes down, someone's 205 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 2: going to see you for securities for And here what 206 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 2: happened is that America First legal group, like a Stephen 207 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 2: Miller backed like sort of Trump official backed, anti Woke, 208 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: anti DEI sort of legal entity. 209 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: Very in vogue right now, it. 210 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 2: Feels right now. They sued Target for securities fraud. And 211 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 2: what they said was that you did this thing, you like, 212 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: did this marketing event, you didn't disclose that it would 213 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: cause a customer boycott and your stock went down, and 214 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: so therefore we were defrauded because we bought the stock 215 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 2: not knowing that you were doing this thing that would 216 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 2: cause a customer boycott, and then when the stock went down, 217 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 2: we lost because of that front, which struck me at 218 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 2: the time. This is they sued in like August the 219 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 2: last year. It struck me as sort of a crazy 220 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: theory because it's not like Target was concealing that they 221 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: were doing a Pride marketing event. It was marketing. It 222 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 2: was quite public and you might say, well, okay, but 223 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 2: they didn't warn investors that the event might lead to 224 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 2: a boycott. But they actually did do that, Like there's 225 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 2: actually a risk factor in their annual report saying that 226 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 2: our position or perceived lack of position on environmental, social 227 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 2: and governance ESG matters such as sustainability, responsible sourcing, and diversity, 228 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 2: equity and inclusion de and I could harm a reputation 229 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: and could result in consumer boycotts. 230 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: That's pretty clear, Well not enough, Matt. 231 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 2: That you know, you're saying our DEI initiatives could like 232 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: harm a reputation and lead to consumer boycotts. And so 233 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 2: what the people suing said is, well, okay, you said that, 234 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 2: but you didn't say specifically this twenty twenty three marketing 235 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: initiative could lead to a consumer boycott. You didn't specifically 236 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 2: call out this thing as a problem. And last week 237 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 2: a judge agreed with them and said, yes, this is 238 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 2: not sufficient disclosure, and the case can go forward because 239 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: Target really might have defrauded shaholders by not telling them 240 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 2: about the possibility that there would be a boycott for 241 00:11:58,559 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 2: this marketing initiative. 242 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: So that's wild. 243 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 2: It's pretty wild. 244 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you talk about this in the column. But 245 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: it's kind of fun to imagine, like what does this 246 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: mean going forward? Like when you see a Target ad 247 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: on TV. I like to imagine, like you know, at 248 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: the end of medicine and like pharmaceutical ads, they have 249 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 1: that sped up voice talk about the side effects, like 250 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: they should have that at the end of every commercial 251 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: that's sped up voice. 252 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 2: You No, it's not in the ad, that's in the 253 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,079 Speaker 2: ten K that the securities fields have to be much 254 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 2: much longer and say every possible risk. 255 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: But I don't think that's what they should They should 256 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: go overboard. 257 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 2: I don't think it's really what it means. I think 258 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 2: what it means is like, technically this is about disclosure, 259 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 2: but it's not really because you can't possibly disclose everything 260 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 2: that could go wrong, right, Like you have a risk 261 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 2: factor and that's like what we do about DEI could 262 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 2: cause a customer boycott. That's pretty good. That's like a 263 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 2: pretty specific disclosure, but it's not specific enough. I think 264 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 2: that what it means on its face is that everything 265 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 2: is security is ruight. What it means on its face 266 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: is that if you do something then the stock price 267 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 2: goes down, doesn't matter what your disclosure said, there's some 268 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 2: problem with the disclosure. No matter what, there's always something 269 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 2: that you could have said that you didn't say, and 270 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 2: you can always get sued. And so it's a true 271 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 2: case of everything is security is for rud It's a 272 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: true case of like any bad thing that a company 273 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: does that causes it stock price to go down, it 274 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: can be security as fraud without worrying about what its disclosure. 275 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 2: So that's like one possible reading, and I think that's 276 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 2: the right reading. I think the right reading is that 277 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 2: this is a conservative legal group picking a place to 278 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 2: file this case with like a very republican judge. And 279 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: this sort of like anti dei, anti woke advocacy is 280 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 2: like on the rise politically. And I've been writing about 281 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 2: like the idea that everything is security is rude for 282 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 2: a long time, right, the idea that like anything you 283 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 2: don't like that a public company does you can say, well, 284 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: what they really did is they felt to disclose it, 285 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 2: and so it's security is fraud. And when I started 286 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 2: writing about this like a decade ago, it was because 287 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 2: the New York Attorney General was suing i think Exxon 288 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: Mobile for not disclosing enough about climate change and basically saying, well, 289 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 2: climate change is this like fraud political topic. But we 290 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 2: can point to your securities disclosure and say, oh, you 291 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 2: didn't like warn investors enough that like climate change was 292 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: coming and it would be bad for oil companies, and 293 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 2: therefore you're committing securities run. Ultimately, the New York ag 294 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 2: lost that case, but that was like where this idea started. 295 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: It was this idea that like, we can use securities 296 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: laws to pursue the substance of political purposes. And what's 297 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 2: happening now is like the same thing, but like from 298 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 2: the other side politically, right, Like what's happening now is 299 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 2: like if you don't like DEI initiatives, you can sue 300 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 2: and call them securities fraud and like now you can 301 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: win or you can like you know, your case doesn't 302 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: get dismissed. You've seen in the current sec like there's 303 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: been a lot of securities cases about climate disclosure. There's 304 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 2: a case that I talk about a lot. This is 305 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 2: a long time ago that the SEC sued Sea World 306 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 2: for mistreating its orcas with Securities Red, and it's like 307 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: all these like things that you can wrap up into 308 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 2: securities for Red. In the next four years with like 309 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 2: a very Republican judiciary and like a Trump sec it's 310 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 2: going to be the reverse. It's going to be everything 311 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 2: that conservatives don't like is going to be Security's rud. 312 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: How does that make you feel because that feels like 313 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: a lot of fodder for the money stuff column and 314 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: potentially the podcast. Does that excite you or do you 315 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: feel tired? 316 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 2: I feel tired. This decision seems wrong and not like 317 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 2: traditional securities fraud reasoning. So I think there's going to 318 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: be a lot of stuff where it's like, yeah, this 319 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 2: doesn't really make sense. Yeah, you know, fodder for the column. 320 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: Totally different from esg Ordi. But in just talking about 321 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: the disclosures and like thinking about, you know, how does 322 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: this change things about you know, how companies disclose possible risks. 323 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: It kind of reminded me of that short seller I 324 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: think it was Carstille Capital with that very tongue in 325 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: cheek letter, which was basically just like, assume we don't 326 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: hold the stock anymore. I don't know, I could see 327 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: some parallels there. 328 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's harder to do in like the 329 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 2: corporate risk factor. Yeah, context, you can't be a sarcastic. 330 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: No, that's too bad. I do wonder at what point 331 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: you know it turns in on itself if it does 332 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: it all, Like if you're disclosing every possible risk factor, 333 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: if the stock does go down because of that risk factor, 334 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: I mean, could they then get sued because hello, you 335 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: knew this was going to you know, potentially hurt the 336 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: stock price and you did it anyway? Or is that silly? 337 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 2: Technically that's not a securities FROD clan, I'd say, like 338 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 2: state law fiduciary duty clan, Yeah, which people are less 339 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 2: excited to bring for various reasons. But now sure, I mean, 340 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 2: like even when it's in a risk factor, like often 341 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 2: what happens is like a company says, if we got hacked, 342 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 2: that would be really bad for us, and then like 343 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: once they get hacked, it's like you have this risk 344 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: factor saying if we get hacked, but you already got hacked, 345 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 2: you haven't updated that risk factor, Like you're deceiving us 346 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 2: by saying if we get hacked, when you did get hacked. 347 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 2: So like there's a lot of that where like even 348 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 2: the exist thin so that the risk factor like creates 349 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 2: a potential for more liability because like you have to 350 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: update the risk factor to to sort of cover what's 351 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 2: actually happened already. 352 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: How should be on this section? 353 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 2: My summing up would be, like I've said for ten 354 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 2: years that every bad thing that a public company does 355 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 2: is security is for raud. And like what's happening now 356 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 2: is that what counts as a bad thing is shifting, right, 357 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 2: Like you might think that, like polluting is bad, but 358 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 2: the new vibe is that having ESG policies is bad. 359 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 2: And so a lot of stuff is going to be 360 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 2: treated as bad and is then going to be treated 361 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: as securities fraud because everything is security is for I don't. 362 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: Know everything subjective. What is bad? I don't know. You 363 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: know what's bad? No being fired? But you know what 364 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: else I don't want that super bad is insider trading. 365 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 2: Wow, I don't want to be fired. I like insider trading. 366 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 2: Oh I mean no, I mean I enjoyed writing about 367 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 2: insider trading. I have a soft spot for insider traders, 368 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 2: so incredibly a sec case this week. Ken Peterman was 369 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 2: the sea of a pretty small company called ComTech Telecommunications, 370 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 2: and the following sequence of events allegedly occurred. One he 371 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 2: got like their earnings results like a few weeks before 372 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 2: they were announced that they were terrible. Two he got 373 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 2: called into a meeting with like a lawyer doing an 374 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 2: investigation of his alleged sexual relationship with a subordinate. In 375 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 2: this meeting, he won confessed to that relationship, and two 376 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: confessed that he had had someone else watched the like 377 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 2: mandatory sexual harassment training video for him because he was 378 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 2: too busy. 379 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: To do it. 380 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 2: Just like right, right, Probably not, But I write a 381 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 2: lot about like accounting firm partners or whatever, who you 382 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 2: know don't take their regulatory continuing education or civement seriously. 383 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 2: But if you're like doing sexual arrassment, you should really 384 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 2: watch the sexual arrassment video. You'll learn something. 385 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: Well, maybe he thought it wasn't, which is also why 386 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: he should have watched the video, but I maybe realized 387 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: the error of his ways. 388 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 2: Anyway, anyway, so that happened at this meeting and shortly 389 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 2: after the meeting, the board called him and said we're 390 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 2: going to fire you for cause, and then he called 391 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 2: his breaker and tried to sell all of his stock 392 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: in the company, sell it all. Then the next day 393 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 2: the company announced that he was fired. In the stock 394 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 2: felt like twenty seven percent, and then like a few 395 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 2: days later they announced their earnings of the stockfell even more. 396 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 2: So by selling the stock, he avoided something like twelve 397 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 2: thousand dollars of losses, which is like, this is a 398 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 2: small company, right, right, the SEC says is inside of trading. 399 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 2: You read the description of what he was doing, he 400 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 2: was in a blackout period, right, So the company had 401 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 2: a policy saying executives can't trade the stock in the 402 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 2: like couple of weeks before earnings, right because like they 403 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 2: worry about exactly what happened, which is that here he 404 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 2: knew the earnings before they were public, and he was 405 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 2: trying to trade stocks during the earnings, and so he 406 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 2: tried to sell stock and his broker was like, aren't 407 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 2: you in a blackout period for executives, And he said, 408 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 2: I'm not an executive anymore. Yeah, he's not an insider. 409 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 2: It's not insider trading. 410 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: That seems pretty water tight. 411 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 2: No, it's not. 412 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: Promise. 413 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 2: But in any case, it's it's a little unclear what 414 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 2: his what his defense or what his resuoning was. But 415 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 2: like to be like one, you're not an insider anymore, 416 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 2: not subject to the black out. And by the way, 417 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 2: the company told him he was subject to the black 418 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: eyed even after he was fired, and like he probably was. 419 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 2: But there's an argument, Ah, I didn't know a subject 420 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 2: to a black euy i'd been fired. But then the 421 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 2: other thing is like I just think that you should 422 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 2: be able to do a little insider trading out of 423 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 2: like peak, he was mad at them, they fired him. 424 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 2: Why should he keep owning the. 425 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 1: Store all entitled to fits of passion where we just 426 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: sell a lot of stocks. 427 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 2: Right, it's not that he was I mean it probably was, 428 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 2: but like it maybe wasn't that he was like trying 429 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 2: to sell the stock before it went down. He was 430 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 2: just like mad at the company. Didn't want to own 431 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: the stock anymore. 432 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, very reason. It's all been ticked off before it, 433 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: so would it. 434 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 2: I should be a defense there, not real there maybe. 435 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: Hey Ken Peterman, if you're listening, but I mean it's 436 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: insider trading whatever, But what if the earnings had been 437 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: really great and the stock actually went up by twenty 438 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: five percent after earnings, but he had sold all his stock. 439 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 1: Do you think that you know, he would still be 440 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: in hot water? 441 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: No, because the only really been cases where it's like 442 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 2: you had material non public information and like active on it, 443 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 2: and here in your hypothetically it wouldn't seem like he 444 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 2: was acting on material information because it went the other way. 445 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: He was just following his emotions and selling his emotions. 446 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, man, like you like you sell 447 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 2: the stock like an hour after get fired. You're not 448 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 2: like making a calculation of Like no, maybe you are, 449 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 2: I don't know what. Once about the CEO of Ias 450 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 2: the Dutch Socker Club, like yeah, they hired him and 451 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 2: after his job interview, he was like, I'm going to 452 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 2: be the CEO. I crushed that that maybe the CEO. 453 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 2: I went on the stock of the company in the ceo. 454 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 2: So he went out and bought a bunch of stock. 455 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 2: And then the Christen did the job offer because they're 456 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 2: like he's inside of treading. 457 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: Wow. 458 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,959 Speaker 2: Ultimately he got like a different job there, Like it 459 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 2: was I toned down the punishment, but they initially thought 460 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 2: it was not okay for him to buy the stock 461 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 2: before he was announced the CEO. 462 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: That feels like thin cruel, But what do I know. 463 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: I cover ETFs in a newsletter called Etfiq. 464 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 2: People love it in the ETF world. You're a celebrity. 465 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: I mention it because we got an email to the 466 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: podcast mail bag asking why I don't promote the fact 467 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: that I also have a newsletter. But it just felt, 468 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:38,479 Speaker 1: you know. 469 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 2: Some emailers to the podcast wish that it was much 470 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 2: much more about ETFs, some others much less. 471 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: Some writers to the mail bag wish that we didn't 472 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: talk about ETF so much. But thank you for writing it, 473 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: and thank you for reading etfiq mail Bag. Hey write 474 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:00,360 Speaker 1: in to the. 475 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 2: Podcast Moneypod at Bloomberg dot bet. 476 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, the holidays quickly approaching. We want to do another 477 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: mealbag episode. Appreciate everyone who's written in so far, but 478 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: keep them coming. 479 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 2: And that was the Money Stuff Podcast. 480 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: I'm Matt Levian and I'm Katie Greifeld. 481 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 2: You can find my work by subscribing to the moneystuffnewsletter 482 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 2: on Bloomberg dot com. 483 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 1: And you can find me on Bloomberg TV every day 484 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: on Open Interest between nine to eleven am. 485 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 2: Eastern we'd love to hear from you. You can send 486 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 2: an email to Moneypod at bloomberg dot net, ask us 487 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 2: a question, and we might answer it on air. 488 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: You can also subscribe to our show wherever you're listening 489 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 1: right now and leave us a review. It helps more 490 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: people find the show. 491 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 2: The Money Stuff Podcast is produced by Anna Maserakus and 492 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:47,239 Speaker 2: Moses onm Our. 493 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: Theme music was composed by Blake. 494 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 2: Maples, Brandon Francis Nunims our executive. 495 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: Producer, and Stage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. 496 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to The Money Stuff Podcast. We'll be 497 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 2: back next week with more stuff. 498 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Money Stuff Podcast. If you 499 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: never want to miss a story, become a bloomberg dot 500 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: com subscriber today. Check out our special intro offer right 501 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: now at bloomberg dot com Slash Podcast Offer, or click 502 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: the link in our show notes. You also unlock deep 503 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: reporting data and analysis from reporters around the world.