1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: The Superman needed Lex Luthor, the Batman needed to joke her. 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 2: And I don't need to pick to put Angel Reese 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 2: in some kind of villain as well, because I don't 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 2: consider her a villain. 5 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 3: But I think every great player needs a foil. 6 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: The reason why we watch that women's basketball is not 7 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 2: just because of one person. 8 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 3: It's because of me too. And you know, I don't 9 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 3: think there should be any criticism for what she did. 10 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 3: I honestly didn't see it when the game was going on. 11 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 4: But the story became more compelling, and the desire to 12 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 4: watch and talk about it became more compelling when she 13 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 4: had a foil. 14 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 3: Angel won a Nashville Championship. 15 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: She has four million plus followers. 16 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 3: She's at the met gala. 17 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 4: Sizza and Magde Stallion want to come sit courtside and 18 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 4: watch her naked sports. 19 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 5: The Making of a Rivalry a six episode docuseries that 20 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 5: explores the media frenzy surrounding two super novas in Kitlyn 21 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 5: Clark and Angel Reese. I'm your host, Carrie Champion, and 22 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 5: welcome to the Making of a Rivalry. This docuseries focused 23 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 5: on the perceived rivalry of Caitlyn Clark and Angel Reese. 24 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 5: I wanted to show you that rivalry is a good 25 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 5: thing for any sport or industry. I also hope that 26 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 5: I was able to give you some insight into who 27 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 5: Angel and Caitlin are on and off the court. And 28 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 5: I wanted to highlight how America, for better or for worse, 29 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 5: is addicted to a black and white narrative. But above all, 30 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 5: I hope you can see the excellence in the women's game. 31 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 5: It's so important to be seen, especially for women, but 32 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 5: seen in a way that's not only acknowledging our excellence 33 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 5: but also celebrating it because oftentimes, across the board, no 34 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 5: matter the profession, women are not seen or heard. I 35 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 5: would argue as of late, the sport has changed that 36 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 5: perception for women, but more specifically, basketball has changed it. 37 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 5: The WNBA has changed the narrative for women's sports as 38 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 5: an entity. The slogan everybody watches women's sports is no 39 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 5: longer a qt phrase. But I truly believe everyone watches 40 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 5: women's sports. I believe the world no longer sees women's 41 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 5: sports as an obligation or or something that is politically correct, 42 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 5: but women's sports are now a priority, nipping at the 43 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 5: cotails of equity and inclusion. 44 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 3: I needed to win, and not just in sports, in 45 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 3: like Chess, Monopoly, checkers, I had to win, and if 46 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 3: I didn't win, I was a kid who was throwing 47 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 3: the game, throwing the pieces. I've gotten much better now, 48 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 3: Gina Prince Spie with I'm a writer, director and what's 49 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 3: my resume? Loving Basketball, Secret Life of Bees, Old guard Woman, 50 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: King and now upcoming Children of Blood and Boom. 51 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 5: I've seen a few. Gina, thank you for doing this. 52 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 5: I really appreciate you for being here. We have been 53 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 5: trying to with our docu series talk about the way 54 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 5: sports really meets at the intersection of politics, of culture, 55 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 5: of just about anything and when you think about it, 56 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 5: at least for me, one of your early films really 57 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 5: gave me insight into what a female athlete could be. 58 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 5: And I'm really curious about your sports background. 59 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 3: Growing up? What sports did you play? I played everything. 60 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: I was super fortunate to have parents who saw the 61 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 3: value in girls playing sports because it was a game changer. 62 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 3: I have two older sisters and younger brother. We were 63 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 3: in soccer since I think probably aged four. Back then, 64 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 3: they didn't have girls' leags, so we had to play 65 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 3: with boys. Which didn't always go great because boys didn't 66 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 3: like the fact that we were out there and that 67 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 3: we were better than them, So we got kicked and 68 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 3: punched a lot, but my parents said just keep going 69 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 3: out there. Once I got to middle school, fell in 70 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 3: love with basketball. 71 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 5: For the last episode of this docu series, we had 72 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 5: a very special guest. I wanted to describe the past, 73 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 5: the present, and the future of the WNBA while also 74 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 5: sharing what I've learned from making up a rivalry, and 75 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 5: for me, there was only one way that I could 76 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 5: do it. There was only one film that envisioned and 77 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 5: centered a woman as a professional basketball player, and that 78 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 5: was Love and Basketball. 79 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 6: The last scene where she's playing and Omar's got her 80 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 6: kid in his lap and he's cheering her on courtside. 81 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: That is the dream. That is the dream. 82 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 6: When we are the ones being celebrated. We are the 83 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 6: center for a league. 84 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 5: Whose story is rarely documented. Love and Basketball would live 85 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 5: in the mind of this creator long before the WNBA 86 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 5: was even a reality. It was a dream for Gina 87 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 5: and I'm sure for many other women who played sports 88 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 5: in high school and in college, all the while excepting 89 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 5: the fact that their love of the game would never 90 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 5: materialize into a professional opportunity, not here in the United 91 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 5: States at least. I hear all the time writers and 92 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 5: director say, I've been working on this for a decade. Yeah, 93 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 5: and it finally came into fruition in terms of bringing 94 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 5: it all together. When did that that love and basketball 95 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,799 Speaker 5: concept into your mind. 96 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 3: I feel like it was bubbling while I was in 97 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 3: college because so much of it is autobiographical. But it 98 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 3: wasn't until I graduated and decided that I wanted to 99 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 3: write a screenplay. I knew I wanted to write a 100 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 3: love story. I knew I wanted to write a black 101 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 3: love story because there was nothing for us at all. 102 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 3: And I said, I'm going to write a black Harry 103 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 3: met Sally. That was like my favorite movie at that time. 104 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 3: But what does that mean? And so it really was 105 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 3: that mantra that you're told, like, write what you know, 106 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 3: write something personal is your first thing. And so I 107 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 3: just thought about me and wanting to be the first 108 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 3: film in the NBA and just the way that I 109 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 3: grew up, but also being able to honestly talk about 110 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 3: what it is to be female athlete because there was 111 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 3: no examples at all for me, certainly in film or television. 112 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 5: Genus film, which is autobile biographical to me, represents every 113 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 5: woman who has played, will play and is currently playing 114 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 5: in the WNBA. 115 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 3: I grew up so often being told I was a 116 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 3: tomboy and something's wrong with me and I'm weird. So 117 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 3: to be able to put a character and celebrate this 118 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 3: character for who she is that meant a lot to 119 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 3: me because it was really kind of an apology to 120 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 3: myself to be able to put that. And so it's 121 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 3: like these pieces just started coming together, and the beauty 122 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 3: of writing is you get to put so much of yourself. 123 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 3: I mean, my first kiss was that it was ten 124 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 3: seconds on our fingers, but like just real moments like that. 125 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 3: But certainly the way I felt as a girl and 126 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 3: a young woman playing sports, it was beautiful for me 127 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 3: to be able to pour that and as I said, 128 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 3: celebrate her as opposed to being somebody that was made 129 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 3: fun of basketball. 130 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 5: Obviously the sport. Is that a metaphor for you? 131 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 3: I don't think it's a metaphor so much as it 132 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 3: was absolutely my north star. It represented everything that I 133 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 3: am today, certainly everything I learned playing ball and how 134 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 3: to be leave it all out on the floor. Ambition 135 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 3: is good, aggression is good, go after it. All these 136 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 3: things that I learned playing ball that I apply to life. 137 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 3: I am so grateful that I had sports growing up, 138 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 3: but because it taught me how to be a woman 139 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 3: in this world and succeed as a woman in this 140 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 3: world because so many of our spaces, of course, are 141 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 3: male dominated. Certainly Hollywood is so to be able to 142 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 3: go in with a swagger that if I didn't have sports, 143 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 3: I would not have that. I don't know how I 144 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 3: could actually move in this industry if I didn't have 145 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 3: that swagger that sports gave me. A great example was 146 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 3: Love and Basketball. My meeting to hopefully get us sold, 147 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 3: because I've said often, I wrote the script to a 148 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 3: year and a half, went out with it, and every 149 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 3: single studio turned it down. Every production company turned it 150 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 3: down like I got crickets, and finally went through the 151 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 3: Sun Dance Program, and then New Line Cinema heard about it. 152 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 3: So I had one chance. And I remember sitting outside 153 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 3: of Mike de Luca's office and I was literally shaking, 154 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 3: scared to death, and I was like, I'm gonna choke. 155 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 3: I have this one chance. Finally I'm gonna choke and 156 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 3: I walked away from the office and I said, where 157 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 3: are you most comfortable? I'm like, on the court, all right, 158 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 3: so walk into that room like you're walking on the court. 159 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 3: And that called me. And I walked in there with 160 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 3: my little bop that I have on the court, and 161 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 3: I was a different person. I went from freaking out 162 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 3: to calm and I got this. So yeah, it absolutely 163 00:08:59,120 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 3: guides me. 164 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 5: That's a beautiful story because I don't know if many 165 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 5: of us think about where we're most confident, where we excel, 166 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 5: and literally transport yourself to that place whenever you're not 167 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 5: feeling adequate. I believe sport does so much for women 168 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 5: in a world where it takes forever to find our 169 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 5: voice and then feel comfortable in society. When the league 170 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 5: started in nineteen ninety eight, what do you remember about 171 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 5: the WNBA when it started? What do you what were 172 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 5: your earliest memories in terms of the fanfare, the popularity, 173 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 5: the stars, if you will. 174 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 3: I remember that inaugural season. I was so excited that 175 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 3: it was happening. It was it was like a fever dream, 176 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 3: like this is really happening. And then all my favorite players, 177 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 3: Don Staley and least Leslie Shmikua, Cynthia Cooper, Cheryl Swoops 178 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 3: like they all had this place to go and the 179 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 3: games were packed. The excitement was huge. It was just fun. 180 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 3: It was fun. You felt like this thing that we 181 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 3: had wanted for so long had finally happened. But there 182 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 3: was also for me, there was a anxiety of would 183 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 3: it last, which I know a lot of people felt, 184 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 3: but because I felt if this didn't work, it was 185 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 3: never going to come back. 186 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 5: Wow, that's so interesting. How long do you think that 187 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 5: feeling happened. I would say for the first five years. 188 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 5: Maybe people didn't know. 189 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I would say it went on longer 190 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,719 Speaker 3: than that. It felt like the WNBA. After maybe the 191 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 3: first two seasons, you know, the audience started to dip 192 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 3: and there were so many questions about was it going 193 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 3: to continue, and then a couple teams folded. It felt 194 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 3: very precarious, I'm gonna say honestly up until this last year. Wow, 195 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 3: when it exploded again like it did that in an 196 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 3: inaugural year. Interesting. This is when you were like, it's 197 00:10:59,240 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 3: here to stay. 198 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 5: So a little I don't think many people would disagree 199 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 5: with that, and we went back and looked there was 200 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 5: so much excitement, especially after the ninety six Olympics, of 201 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 5: what would this be? And you mentioned some of the greats. 202 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,719 Speaker 5: I want to tie that back into loving basketball for 203 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 5: my understanding. You interviewed Don Staley, Sheryl Swoops, and Lisa Leslie, 204 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 5: and I think you said Shemika also to be teammates, 205 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 5: to be, to be, to be Monica. 206 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 3: Okay, I don't know, not Monica, though I did. I 207 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 3: did read Marion Jones, who at that time was one 208 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 3: of my heroes as well. She was so she auditioned Wow, 209 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 3: But I knew ultimately I needed an actor, but I 210 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 3: wanted my vision was to have all her teammates be 211 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 3: Litha and Don and all that. But the Olympics fell 212 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 3: right when I was going to shoot, and so I 213 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 3: was able to get them in. I had them all 214 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 3: come in an audition anyway, and it was it was 215 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 3: my opportunity one to meet my heroes, but to just 216 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 3: to talk about basketball, use it as research as well. 217 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: And they loved talking about what it was like to 218 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 3: go overseas when they didn't have the WNBA, What did 219 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 3: that feel like? And so that authenticity was everything to me. 220 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 5: If you were too right, love and basketball today. What 221 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 5: would it look like? 222 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 3: Would it still be that same love story? Wow? You 223 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 3: know what's interesting? I think the saddest thing is as 224 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 3: hard as it was to get it made. And I 225 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 3: don't know that I could get it made today unless 226 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 3: it was on Netflix. So I want to start there. 227 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 3: But how would it be different? Let me be honest, 228 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 3: I don't think I would change. I don't think it 229 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 3: would change. I think the only element I would probably 230 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 3: add it was made in this moment is nil and 231 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 3: how that's changed the game, and also the racial component 232 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 3: and how because it's been so amplified, what do you 233 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 3: mean by that? Like it's always there's always been an 234 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 3: underlying feeling about that, but this year it was very 235 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 3: obvious who was getting amplified as d Star, as the 236 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 3: second Coming. And that's not to take anything away from Caitlyn. 237 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 3: She's dope, she's a baller, and the pressure that was 238 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 3: on her and she succeeded anyway, Like I'm a fan, 239 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 3: but there were also other folks coming in and people 240 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 3: who have been there grinding and being amazing, but also 241 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 3: the way that you know, Angel and Caitlin were pitted 242 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 3: against each other in that game, it was so racial 243 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 3: it was so obvious, and these folk who had never 244 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 3: even cared about the WNBA all all of a sudden 245 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 3: had something to say because it actually wasn't even about 246 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 3: the WNBA. It was about they had a space now 247 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 3: for their racism and their sexism. So that's been really tough. 248 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 3: And even who's getting the endorsements and there I won't 249 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 3: name the pro but it was really surprising to me 250 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 3: to see this product advertised and it was a group 251 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 3: of five women and the woman that was in the 252 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:17,559 Speaker 3: center was a white woman, and then the sisters were 253 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 3: on the sides, and that white woman is a rookie, 254 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 3: not Caitlyn, It was somebody else. But I saw that. 255 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 3: It was so glaring to me because the people around 256 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 3: her are amazing ballplayers, So why did it happen? 257 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 5: Centering the white narrative has been very very much point 258 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 5: of discussion, especially in a w NBA, especially based on 259 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 5: what you just said. But I want to go back 260 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 5: to the amplification and I'll just I'll focus on that word. 261 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 5: Cannice Parker was in two thousand and eight the Rookie 262 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 5: of the Year and MVP, but the amplification for her 263 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 5: was not there, not in the way in which it 264 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 5: was for Caitlin. When you look at your work, I 265 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 5: feel like there are similar stories. Love in basketball greatest 266 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 5: of all time? 267 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 3: Go did right? The Woman King? 268 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 5: I never The Woman King came out after COVID. Post COVID, 269 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 5: I never wanted to go to the movie theaters again. 270 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 5: And I'm giving you my experience, me and seven of 271 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 5: my girlfriends wearing King hats, Burger King hats. She bought 272 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 5: us some Burger King hats. They better pay for our 273 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 5: ad and we put them on our heads. 274 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 275 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 5: And we sat in a movie theater and we laughed 276 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 5: and we cried, and we were inspired, and we left 277 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 5: filling so much pride. One of my girlfriends bought her 278 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 5: daughter too, and she was just locked in with us. 279 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 5: And the message was there were so many messages. I 280 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 5: could watch it over and over again, but it broke 281 00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 5: my heart to not see that film be amplif in 282 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 5: a way that it deserved. He articulated it very carefully, 283 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 5: and I think, honestly, the lack of not acknowledging our excellence, 284 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 5: how did that make you feel? 285 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 3: It was? It was I'm not gonna lie with that. 286 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 3: They was surreal to have that happen, though, given the 287 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 3: history of the Academy, given the history of our country, 288 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 3: I shouldn't have been surprised because it happens across every medium, 289 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 3: every element of our life. There is a lack of 290 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 3: acknowledgment of our excellence. We don't get the assumption of 291 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 3: excellence that others do. And so it wasn't for me. 292 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 3: It was bigger than of the film didn't get recognized 293 00:16:54,960 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 3: because across the board, the work of my cost steam designer, 294 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 3: you know, my actors, Viola, my editor. These are all 295 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 3: black women who did incredible work. The hair and makeup 296 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 3: just next level work that was just ignored. So it 297 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 3: was like every single element of the film was not recognized. 298 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 3: And that's that's what was so disheartening, because that's so 299 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 3: many black women doing excellent work and that work being ignored. 300 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 6: You. 301 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 5: I think of Viola talking about the way she trained 302 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 5: and even the way those women trained, and I was 303 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 5: like to me that in itself they were athletes. You 304 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 5: were giving them this opportunity and then the acting was 305 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 5: just on another level. I I don't want to put 306 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 5: my frustration on you, because I think that we all 307 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 5: have experienced that in the marginalized community where we feel 308 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 5: like our work is not being acknowledged properly and or 309 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 5: given it's just due. And with this perceived rivalry that 310 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,239 Speaker 5: we have been talking about in this docuseries, there was 311 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 5: this idea that Angel was the villain and that Caitlin 312 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 5: Clark was America's darling. Yeah, and in my mind should 313 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 5: have been Angel Reese's crowning achievement winning a nation, winning 314 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 5: the natty A National championship. She had to defend her character, 315 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 5: not for words she said, but just because she actually won. 316 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 5: And she trash talk because to me, that is a 317 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 5: rite of passage. You lose I get to trash talk. 318 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 5: Is this the right of passage when you consume that story? 319 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 5: When you read that story, did it were there any 320 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 5: parallels for you in Hollywood? 321 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 3: I mean, foremost when that happened, it was shocking the 322 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 3: vitriol coming from grown men to this young black woman 323 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 3: like literally, I'm social and I'm there podcasts and calling 324 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 3: her names, and it was it was as if there 325 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 3: was no humanity shown to her. It's she's twenty twenty 326 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 3: one years old and you're the name calling and the 327 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 3: hate that you're putting on her and thus putting out 328 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 3: in the world and that's making it acceptable to pile 329 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 3: on her. It was shocking to me. And props to 330 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 3: Shack who came out real quick to try and shut 331 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 3: that down. Jamel Hill came out super quick. But it is, 332 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 3: it is. It was so hard to watch. And yet 333 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 3: because I think all of us, as black women, at 334 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 3: some point in their lives have felt that and so 335 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 3: you you know, you want to protect Angel but also 336 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 3: that it wasn't it was so strange. It wasn't just 337 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 3: she was getting it from everybody. 338 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 5: It's a difference between being a foil and then having 339 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 5: everyone root against you. I don't mind the rivalry. I 340 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 5: think it's good for the sport, but when everyone is 341 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 5: rooting against you, that's more than that. Because if they 342 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 5: when they do the comparisons to Larry and Larry Bird 343 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 5: and Magic Johnson, people were rooting. 344 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 3: For Larry, people were rooting for Magic. It was it 345 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 3: was fair. 346 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 5: We now now the narrative when you think of and 347 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 5: this is why the comparisons are similar but not fair 348 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 5: in the sense of social because there is no humanity 349 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 5: for for angelries. Yeah, and I feel that's that is 350 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 5: a feeling across the board when we talk about refusing 351 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 5: to acknowledge our excellence, but. 352 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 3: Also it's because she had the audacity to show swagger, 353 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 3: to believe in herself. How dare to trash talk's dare? 354 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 3: And that's the thing. Also, we not only do people 355 00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 3: not recognize our excellence, but when we dare to to 356 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 3: acknowledge our own excellence, then you're immediately slapped down. 357 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 5: Being in the WNBA is not a lucrative gig. It's 358 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 5: purely for the love of the game, which is why 359 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 5: it's so hard to understand why there is any hatred 360 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 5: towards these women. When making of rivalry returns, we talk 361 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 5: about the love of basketball. 362 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 3: Think about the liberty. I give such props to Claire 363 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 3: Wu who took it over just a couple of years ago. 364 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 3: They were playing at the Westchester Community Center, Like, why 365 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 3: would anyone do that with nobody coming and floors that 366 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 3: were that you know when it rained, it would get 367 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 3: flooded and it's warped, and no one's there, no one's 368 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 3: cheering for you. But you show up and you're balling 369 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 3: out and you're given everything. Now I love it because 370 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 3: you go to the Barklay Center and it's packed every 371 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 3: game back in the moment. 372 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 5: When you see these women on the court, they are 373 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 5: at home. They are their most authentic, pure selves. Basketball 374 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 5: is their art, as filmmaking is genius. What is that love? 375 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 5: What is that love of basketball? Feel like? 376 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 3: It's interesting because I sometimes say that female ball players 377 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 3: love it more because of everything that you just said. 378 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 3: You are playing strictly for the love of the game, 379 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 3: because there are no you're not getting accolades, you're not 380 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 3: getting fame, you're not getting money. In fact, it's a 381 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 3: sacrifice to play. But that feeling, the feeling on the court, 382 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 3: the feeling of like breaking someone's ankles, hitting that shot, 383 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 3: playing defense, getting a steal, it's like you it's it's 384 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 3: like on that court you can be your true self. 385 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 3: There's such joy in for the moment, being able to 386 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 3: feel like the best person, the joy of collectively you 387 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 3: and your teammates coming together, being in a war. And 388 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 3: that's what it feels like on the court, like you're 389 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 3: in a battle, you're war. That feeling it's an amazing high, 390 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 3: and then you step off the court and it dissipates. 391 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 3: But for that moment it is I think it's just 392 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 3: chasing that high chasing that high, and once you've tasted it, 393 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 3: it's like you can't let it go. And so I 394 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 3: just think, Yeah, any chance that you have to play, 395 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 3: you're gonna you're gonna take it as hard as it is. 396 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 3: I feel such like it's emotional to think about those 397 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 3: women just in the span of two years, how their 398 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 3: lives has changed. I'm grateful for everything that's happened, because 399 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 3: so many women have grinded in the shadows and been 400 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 3: excellent in the shadows. I wonder how they feel. Honestly 401 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 3: looking at what it is now is bittersweet. 402 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, right, like, especially those who are coming to the 403 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 5: end of their career, right, Like I want to celebrate 404 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 5: and this is just from some reporting. Yes, I'm celebrating 405 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 5: where we are, but did it really need to take 406 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 5: this long? 407 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 3: Yeah? 408 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 5: Conversely, do you also? Can you also relate to that 409 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 5: when you were trying to get your projects done, feeling like, 410 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 5: look at all I did, and this is this is 411 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 5: the this is what I get in return? Obviously the 412 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 5: fans will love you and hold you down, but what 413 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 5: I And let me ask the question another way, Do 414 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 5: you do it for the luck? 415 00:24:58,920 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 3: Yes? 416 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 5: Obviously it's not you know, like the w NBA in 417 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 5: terms of you know, not being able to you know, 418 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 5: have chartered flights and back, but there is this lack 419 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 5: of when you give your you know what I mean. 420 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, No, my journey in this industry, in the work 421 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 3: that they do in both centering us but also centering 422 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 3: black women, those are the hardest films to get made. 423 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 3: And I am forever humbled. Spike with this says, to 424 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 3: be humble. Yeah, the fact that Love and Basketball is 425 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 3: still around after all these years. But there were years 426 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 3: on years of doing work but not really being acknowledged 427 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 3: for it. And it's strange until The Old Guard, which 428 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 3: I did, which amazing, yes, but it only it didn't 429 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 3: the leads, only one the leaves was black. That was 430 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 3: the first time I got foreign press, and what was 431 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 3: shocking to me is how many spoke about Love and 432 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 3: Basketball when I was told my whole life that my 433 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 3: films don't travel, nobody cares about them outside of America. 434 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 3: I had no idea until The Old Guard, which was 435 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 3: what twenty twenty one. I had no idea but to 436 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 3: do all the films I did, but never have a 437 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 3: budget like that, never have the respect. During the press process, 438 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 3: it was a stunning and very I was very telling. 439 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,199 Speaker 3: But once you have a taste of that, it's the 440 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 3: thing you're not going to go back. So being able 441 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 3: to take that energy into the woman King and go 442 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 3: back to centering black women in this story that hadn't 443 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 3: been told, Like I was going to fight for that, 444 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 3: and that's what it has been. I've been in a 445 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 3: sustain and fight for the last thirty years to tell 446 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 3: these stories. But sports gave me that fight. Amen. 447 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 5: Now you're like, look, I get extra wacamole every time 448 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 5: I go to Chipotle. Y'all cannot be trying to say 449 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 5: I can extra brocamole. This is what it is. 450 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 6: I did. 451 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 5: I did our guard and it was it okay. And 452 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 5: if you don't want to give me this extra quaalk, 453 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 5: you got a problem. Do you ever think that there 454 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 5: is a space and time and our and our culture 455 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 5: and our community and politics and sport that the audacity 456 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 5: of sharing our excellence won't be met with vitriol? Or 457 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 5: will there always be this hesitation and I'm talking about 458 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 5: black women when we're centering black women, will there always 459 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 5: be this hesitation to take the high road? Like when 460 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 5: they go low, you know, we go hi shout out 461 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 5: to Michelle. I don't know if I always go high though, 462 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 5: but yeah, we. 463 00:27:52,359 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 3: We have the most excellent candidate for president and she 464 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 3: is being questioned constantly. We we have so far to go. 465 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 3: It's just it's real. She has to win. That will help. 466 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 3: But watching her journey, so many of us know exactly 467 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,479 Speaker 3: what it is because we feel it. Our talent in question, 468 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 3: our our space, the fact the spaces that we want 469 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,360 Speaker 3: to be in is questioned. The fact that I love 470 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 3: the thing that she said the other day. We don't 471 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 3: aspire to be humble like I dug that, and that's 472 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 3: you know, obviously the women in WNBA, there's so much 473 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 3: trash talking and they get slammed for it, you know, 474 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 3: So it is a I there's so far to go, 475 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 3: But what's important is the conversations to call it out 476 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 3: and then for you know, people who are benefiting from 477 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 3: it need to stand up and be loud. Pagebeckers like 478 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 3: love her. 479 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 5: She can do no she I really I'm hoping she 480 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 5: uses her voice in such a powerful way, and she 481 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 5: already has. 482 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 7: The SPS as a white woman who leads a black 483 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 7: lead sport and celebrated here. I want to show a 484 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 7: light on black women, they don't get the media coverage 485 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 7: that they deserve. 486 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 3: So I think it's time for change. Change. So we 487 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 3: know when she's coming in and hopefully she'll go the sparks. Yeah, 488 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 3: and we know she's going to continue to be that 489 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 3: vocal and it's important you have to shut that down. 490 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 3: But yeah, we got a long way to go. We 491 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 3: have a really long way to go. You know, we 492 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 3: have to be together, we have I mean, I love 493 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 3: that you're talking about with the angel. What you're talking 494 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 3: about is you're being honest about it, but you're also 495 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 3: supportive of her, you know, and we just we need 496 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 3: that support amongst each other more than ever. And you know, 497 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 3: it's interesting, like I didn't even see a friend of 498 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 3: mine sent me you know, Asia was on a podcast, 499 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 3: Oh bad Mouth and Love and Basketball. It was like 500 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 3: everyone can have their opinion. It's like you can absolutely 501 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 3: have your opinion. What surprised me was how far she went, 502 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 3: you know, about something and a film that's meant so 503 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 3: much to black girls and black women, the fact that 504 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 3: there's a black woman behind it. You know, I think 505 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 3: I just hope that she forgot about that. 506 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 5: When Making of a Rivalry returns the league has come 507 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 5: a very long way, but there's still more work to do. 508 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 5: We look ahead at what's the future of the WNBA. 509 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 6: Once you have a transcendent star like Jordan, now we 510 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 6: can get the staffs. Now we can get the Lebrons, 511 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 6: and I think that's what's going to happen. So Page 512 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 6: is next, and then Juju, and Juju could be the 513 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 6: biggest star of them all, like Juju getting this shoe 514 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 6: deal as the biggest shoe deal for a women's basketball 515 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 6: player in the history of the game. As a sophomore 516 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 6: at USC. When you think about like USC basketball, I 517 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 6: always think about loving basketball and snihlight thin and just 518 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 6: like me as a kid wanting to hoop. 519 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: And that's great too. So what we're going to see 520 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: I think moving forward. And then Malaysia full. 521 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 6: Wiley, who's nasty, also like she's going to come into 522 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 6: the league and be awesome. 523 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: So you're gonna have this new group of WNBA players and. 524 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 3: They all like each other back in a moment. 525 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 6: I'm a host and a content creator in the Basketball 526 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 6: Space podcast name is the Heat Check with Christi Crik. 527 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 6: I just talked to you about basketball. Make fun of things, 528 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 6: make fun of people, make fun of places. 529 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 5: Tristan is a personality that has a very unique but 530 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 5: I believe spot on take of the league's future and 531 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 5: it's player. But when you think of this new crop 532 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 5: of rookies, how would you describe their personalities? And I'm 533 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 5: i'm and I'm specifically talking to obviously about the Angel 534 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 5: Reeses and the Caitlin Clarks and the Camilla Cardoso's, Like 535 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 5: how how did they enter the league as opposed to 536 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 5: what you've seen when you look. 537 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 6: At with this new generation, is its post nil, right? 538 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: And so post nil. They're coming into the. 539 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 6: League with money, They're coming into the league with followings 540 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 6: and audience of their own. 541 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: They're coming into the league with brand deals. 542 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 6: They're coming into the league loud and proud and unapologetic, 543 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 6: and I think that causes a lot of unintentional consequences 544 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 6: with the older generation of w NBA players who have 545 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 6: had to fight and claw and scratch for every shred 546 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 6: of attention, every dollar, everything, and they've had to make 547 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 6: decisions to sacrifice who they were and in order to 548 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 6: continue to keep those things as a possibility. And this 549 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 6: is like a new generation of workers, right, Like you've 550 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,479 Speaker 6: got a new generation that says, no, I'm not going 551 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 6: to just do what you tell me to do how 552 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 6: you tell me to do it, because I can go 553 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 6: and access this million followers and monetize that on my own. 554 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: So what you're seeing is like league fits. You're seeing 555 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: this the tongue out. 556 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 6: You're seeing almost a backlash to traditional female in the 557 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 6: workforce kind of a thing, and that's caused all kinds 558 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 6: of good things for the league and some friction in 559 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 6: the league. 560 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 5: I think along with these new players and their new money, 561 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 5: they bring the new fans just to says the league 562 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 5: used to be an exclusive party. Everybody did not watch 563 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 5: women's sports, and that's okay, but now it's general admission. 564 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 6: I think about the WNBA like a party, right, and 565 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 6: the party's been very curated and selective, and it's been 566 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 6: poppin and Caitlin comes in and she's Middle America, right, 567 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 6: and she's bringing new folks to the party. So I 568 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 6: think for those who also have been around this sport 569 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 6: a long time, we have to give grace too. 570 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: We can't allow the nonsense in the. 571 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 6: Books, but we also have to know, like we want 572 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 6: the league to grow, so these women who can get 573 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 6: paid don't have to go overseas and end up in 574 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 6: a prison because they weren't making a living wage. Like 575 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 6: we want this league to grow, but there's going to 576 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 6: be growing pains, and sometimes a broad mainstream fan base 577 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 6: brings things that we don't really feel comfortable with because 578 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 6: we've been all like minded in a way where we 579 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 6: accept everybody. 580 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 5: But as our vice president Kamala Harris would say, we 581 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 5: ain't going back love in basketball. While I use that 582 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 5: film as an example and I see the parallels currently 583 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 5: in the WNBA, I really want the last word to 584 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 5: be given to the women of the league. This is 585 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 5: my life letter to you all. You've worked so hard. 586 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 5: We've watched you grind, We've watched you demand respect and dignity, 587 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 5: and now you receive it because you deserve it. This 588 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 5: is for the women who built this league. Lisa Leslie, 589 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 5: Don Staley, Cheryl Swoops, Cynthia Cooper, Maya Moore, Candice Parker. 590 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 5: We thank you, ladies for what you have given us. 591 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 5: We thank you for what you have built. We thank 592 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 5: you for the excellence because we see it and we 593 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 5: honor it. The league is in a beautiful place, and 594 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 5: I want to thank the ladies of the past the 595 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 5: ladies of the present and the ladies who are coming. 596 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 5: We thank you for what you've given us, and we 597 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 5: can't wait to have more. 598 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 8: Even more sold out crowds, so many of your people 599 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 8: coming to the games. 600 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: I love where we are right now, and we just 601 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: continue to go. 602 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 8: I can't say, well it will be in five years, 603 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 8: but I know that tennis is going to be higher. 604 00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 3: The money will go up. 605 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 2: We have a new CBA coming out coming up in 606 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. So I'm this my love here in 607 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 2: the league. The growth, the game's gonna grow, and I 608 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 2: think like the biggest thing is just a salary cap, 609 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 2: Like we're actually gonna get the money we desire. We 610 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 2: just is it gonna take some more years, but it's coming. 611 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 9: I love this league and I think that when the 612 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 9: next CBA comes around, they're gonna do the right thing. 613 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 9: And it's not gonna be perfect, it's not gonna be 614 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,439 Speaker 9: where we want it all the way, but when growth 615 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 9: comes haying and vice versus. So I think really good 616 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 9: things are gonna come out of this. 617 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 8: If I could predict the future, I think it'll be 618 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 8: on the same level as the NBA in terms of pay, 619 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 8: in terms of salaries in terms of opportunities, marketability, all 620 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 8: that kind of stuff, accessibility, everything. I agree it'd be 621 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 8: on the same standard, just be basketball. I think it's 622 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 8: so many first first social women's basketball, but I think 623 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 8: and the few are gonna need a standard regarding load 624 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 8: basketball if people are gonna be like you mean men's 625 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 8: or women. So this league's gonna go through the riff, 626 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 8: and I hope everybody's a ready. 627 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 3: It's ready, It's ready. 628 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 5: The Making of a Rivalry Caitlin Clark Versus Angel Rees 629 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 5: is a Be Honest production in partnership with the Black 630 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 5: Effects podcast Network. In iHeart Women's Sports, Written and executive 631 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 5: produced by me Carrie Champion. Supervising producers are in Santana, 632 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,280 Speaker 5: Produced by Jocksvice Thomas, sound design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. 633 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 5: Associated producer Olubusail Shabby. Naked Sports is a part of 634 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 5: the Black Effect podcast Network in iHeartMedia. Hey everybody, if 635 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 5: you're new to Naked Sports, welcome to the podcast. And 636 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 5: for those who've been with us since season one, thank 637 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 5: you for right now. We're kicking off season four with 638 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,399 Speaker 5: this six episode docu series that you're listening to right 639 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 5: now and after that Naked Sports will continue to live 640 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,320 Speaker 5: at the intersection of sports, politics, and culture for covering 641 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 5: all things from the presidential race to the WNBA Rookie. 642 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:37,280 Speaker 3: Of the Year contests. 643 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 5: This season will be bold, as you can already tell, 644 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 5: no holds barred, but also we'll bring you that same 645 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 5: vulnerable storytelling technique that makes our show so very unique. 646 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 3: We appreciate you for being. 647 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: Here and thank you all for the support. 648 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 3: We'll talk to you next week.