WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 216 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:03.080 Al Zone Media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.720 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.680 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:24.880 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:30.639 Welcome to you can happen here a podcast where so 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:34.120 many things are happening here that we frankly have borne 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:36.880 out the bit about trying to use this as our introduction. 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:42.760 I am your host, Bio Wong. One of the many, many, many, 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:47.880 many many crises that are unfolding in this country right 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:52.040 now is a rolling ethnic cleansing carried out by Ice 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.520 and Border Patrol with the assistance of the cops. And 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:00.960 we have talked about this from a lot of angles. 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.920 But a thing I want to sort of draw attention 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:09.160 back to in this moment where there's increased attention and 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:14.720 scrutiny from truly a series of really hideous ice shootings 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:19.280 is what it's like to be in detention right now 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:24.120 and how possibly people can be gotten out of the 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:28.240 tension and with me to talk about something that I 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.040 feel like I can't even describe as the horrors because 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.960 it's simply worse than that. Is Ellie Bell, who is 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:40.400 a community organizer, does many things, wears many hats. Welcome 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:41.080 to the show. 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:46.600 Thank you. Hello, I'm Ellie. And the reason I am 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:51.680 here right now for this specific podcast conversation is that 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:57.280 I am on a team that is trying to help 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:00.960 many immigrants by one in tourchainicular that I will be 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:05.760 talking about tonight Alberto, who is a father and a 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:10.799 husband and is currently detained in an ICE attention center 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.920 in Indiana after being transferred from his home in Chicago. 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.760 And you know, we are trying to get him out 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.639 and to get his family's story out there and his 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:25.760 story out there, and you know, among many other things 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.520 that ICE is doing in a way that it's into 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:31.839 all of that. That's what I am here to talk 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:32.480 about today. 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:38.280 Yeah, so let's begin. So I guess one thing that 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.080 I want to sort of lead off with here is 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:46.160 obviously the sort of the most intense ICE repression and 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:50.680 raids have shifted to places like Minneapolis right now. I mean, 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.000 who knows, as you're listening to this, maybe they've pivoted 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.720 it to another place. I don't know. Everything is moving 0:02:55.760 --> 0:03:00.560 so unbelievably fast and horribly but also raised are still 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.919 continuing in the places where ice has normally pulled out. 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.080 Now the frequency of those raids has decreased because they 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.440 simply don't have the personnel to run these kind of 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.160 I don't know. They describe it as operational tempo. I 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:14.399 describe it as they don't have the people to kidnap 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:16.640 this many people at once. 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.200 They can't kidnap or kill us all. 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.960 Yeah, which, you know, not enormously happy to see people 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.040 chanting that here. I have a bunch of visceral memories 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:30.000 of the last two times that I saw people chanting 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:34.000 that and didn't go great. So let's not go on 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:38.280 the likes to Dan twenty nineteen tangents. Yeah, actually no, no, sorry, sorry, 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:40.680 I am wrong there. The su Dan one was we 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.160 are not Afraid to Die, which is in some weeks 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:43.920 bleaker there. 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.000 There is so much, there's so much history packed in here. 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:51.760 Moving to the presence of you know, our version of 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.520 the ethnic cleansing. Can you go to sort of the 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:58.680 start of this and talk about what the specific raid 0:03:58.760 --> 0:03:59.480 here looked like. 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:04.720 Yeah, So, I mean, I think I want to zoom 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:09.800 out for a moment before I get into the specifics 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:15.760 of what happened with this man, this father, and hasban 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.600 done his family and then get into it. But you know, 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:23.240 as I'm sure you know we are all talking about, 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:30.920 we are being Ice escalating their tactics in just an 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.720 egregious way. They killed a woman in cold blood and 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:38.280 just executed her in the street the other day, Rene 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.719 and Good. Now, of course this is not the first 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:45.400 or only person that they've killed recently. It's one of many. 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.720 I think there are now eleven, it might be twelve. 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:50.400 The number just keeps rising every day. 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.240 Yeah, so we still don't having very good information about 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:58.080 what happened. But literally the next day in Portland, someone 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.760 either ICE work border patrol. At the time I'm recording this, 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.200 it's Tuesday the thirteenth. We still don't know whether it 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:10.000 was iberdoctil, but someone shot two people in Portland. So yeah, 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:12.040 and I think they're being charged right now for terrorism 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:13.599 because this is just what happens. Now. 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:17.880 Yeah, these are all connected, but you know we know 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.080 that there are I believe there's been it was nine 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.279 two days ago, then now it's like eleven or twelve. 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.599 It just keeps rising. The number of people that we 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.400 know of, I want to be really clear that we 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.679 know of and as you said, we don't have good 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.640 data on this. We do not have correct data on this, 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:40.120 which is also an intentional tool of the state to 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.719 obscure what is happening. But there are so many people 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:47.120 who have been killed by ice, and those are the 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:49.400 ones that we know of. You know, since let's say 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:51.719 in the last two or three months, there are so 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:55.080 many more. There are so many people missing from Alligator Alcatraz. 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:59.640 What we saw happen in Minneapolis last week is horrendous. 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:03.599 And you know, the same way that al Berrow, who 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.640 I am part of this team trying to help get 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:10.159 him out of detention. He did nothing wrong. He has 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:14.359 had no criminal activity. There was nothing to warrant the 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:18.520 excuse that he must be detained or treated violently. It's 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.440 the same as how Renee did nothing wrong and nothing 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:25.760 to deserve being murdered. He was witnessing, He was witnessing 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:31.280 and being there for her neighbors, and she was sitting 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.200 there in her car, and that is what we know, 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:39.359 but her murder the same way that these raids and 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:43.880 everything going on. It's an escalation tactic used by ICE. 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:48.200 That's part of deep rooted old school fascist and authoritarian 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.279 measures to test what they can get away with while 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:56.040 people remain complacent in times of genocide and ethnic cleansing, 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.280 and for societal people, you know, they just want to 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:01.520 see what they can get away with and how much 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:05.320 control they can exercise. So that being said, to get 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:10.960 into what happened to Albero and his wife is they 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.920 are in Chicago and they've been there for a little 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.880 over a year since they came here to seek asylum, 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.080 and they were first in a shelter and then they 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.160 finally were able to get the work they needed to 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:31.040 have a home with their three kids. You know, I 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.480 want to be really explicit that this person is a father, 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:39.560 a husband. He has other family members here who look 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:41.800 up to him, who he is a father figure or 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:46.920 an uncle too. He is a community figure and a leader. 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.200 After he was taken, you know, I was told by 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.480 a family friend who is part of the team that 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:57.320 I'm working with. They told me that the women in 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.240 the neighborhood the other like immigrant women in all like 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:05.120 work together and know each other. Called him a pendados, 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.960 like a loving term for someone who is just like 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:13.720 a community member, like a shining beacon in a community, 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.160 and that is that is who he is. And I 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.760 also really want to emphasize that it wouldn't really matter 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.000 if that wasn't who he was, and if he was 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:27.200 somehow quote unquote lesser than that or not a saint, 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.160 because there's no such thing as like a good or 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:37.160 bad immigrant. Nobody deserves to be treated this inhumanely, unless, 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.560 of course, you're a fascist, then I think you know 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:40.400 fair game. 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.560 Hey, look, I'm gonna put my foot down there and 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:46.800 say we are more than capable of dealing with fascists internally. 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:49.000 Yeah, yeah we can. 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:51.679 We can simply hold the line on no deportations and 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.280 simply right right us. 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:59.320 But but so so, what happened was it was early 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:03.480 early morning the morning of Monday, December twenty ninth. Okay, 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:07.600 it's officially been two weeks since this happened. Monday, December 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.760 twenty ninth. It's like somewhere between maybe five and six am, 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:15.520 six thirty. It's still dark out. He and his wife, 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.360 whose name I'm not going to use to protect her 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.480 anonymity and her identity, but he and his wife got 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:26.600 into their car and the windows were rolled down. The 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.800 slightest bit they were getting in their car to drive 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.600 to work, so that then she could go back home 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.240 and be with her kids after taking him to work. 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:40.720 And I want to be really explicit that we know 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:44.800 that when ICE agents came to do this raid, they 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:47.920 didn't have their names when they approached them. They didn't 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:51.439 know anything about them until they took them in in 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:53.960 the Chicago area. You know, you can talk about this 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.040 a little if you want, but ICE has to have 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.160 a warrant for the people they're picking up. They can't 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.480 just pick up anyone. Based on the novel Cancaid decree, 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.280 which was just extended by the appeals court, we know 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.320 that in Chicago this is something that has been continuously happening. 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:09.839 And as we look at this from a broader context, 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.600 they go after non white people, kidnap them, and ask 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.600 questions later just because they think no one is going 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.440 to care. And part of the reason that I'm talking 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.440 about all of this is because I want to be 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.760 very clear that people are watching, people care, and more 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:27.960 people need to be watching, and more people need to 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:32.200 care when it happens to people who are not white, 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:36.479 not just white women, because obviously Renee's murder is horrific, 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.960 and I saw her be able to raise one point 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:43.720 four million dollars in less than a day, and Albero's 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.320 campaign has been at fourteen thousand dollars for more than 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.920 a week, and we can't raise more money because people 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.800 have so much more sympathy and empathy for white people. 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:57.360 And that is actually so tied into why ICE does 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:01.520 the things they do because of that same whiteness, that 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.199 same white supremacy where they think we can do whatever 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.160 we want to immigrants and brown people. Who's going to care? 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.480 Yeah, And that's that is one of the major constituent 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:16.320 elements of this entire rolling ethnic cleansing is that you know, 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:18.400 and this is this has been a thing in Chicago 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.720 and since the raids really kicked off, is that every 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:27.319 fucking day someone just disappears and everyone just goes about 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:28.439 their lives. 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:30.880 Absolutely, and they count on us to do that, and 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:36.120 they count on us to not be paying enough attention 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.880 that we can't keep track of how shitty their data 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.600 is and how inconsistent their data is, and all of 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:45.280 the numbers we don't have. 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.480 Yeah, well, and the everything they're relying on is they're 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.560 relying on their not being any tend to stop them, right. 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:55.360 What they're relying on is you know, once once they 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.440 grab someone, everyone just going okay, well, that's just you know, 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.679 this is this is a statistic counting an encounter and 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.000 not this is a life that needs to be fought 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:05.400 for exactly. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.079 And that is why I find it so important and 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:11.840 why I am doing the work that I am doing 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.120 alongside everyone else who's doing this kind of work to 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:20.880 uplift stories and tell them because they can't be told 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:25.080 by the immigrants themselves right now, because they're being tortured 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:30.160 inside detention. And it's so crucial for people to understand 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.040 that these are not numbers, These are not just names 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.199 on a page. These are real people's lives. This is 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:41.080 a real man who's three children, whose three young children 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:45.440 have now gone to bed without him every night for 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.240 two weeks. They don't know where their dad is. They 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:53.120 don't know why he's not there, they don't know why 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.720 he's apparently being tortured. They just know that their dad 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:01.880 isn't there. And I need people to under stand you 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:06.520 know think about Can you imagine can you imagine being 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:12.080 away from your family for two weeks and counting, not 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.480 knowing when you're going to come back, if you're going 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:17.880 to come back, if you're going to die in distension? 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.600 Can you imagine being the child of someone? And a 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:23.680 lot of people don't have to imagine. I'm saying this 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.400 for like, you know, white people and privileged people who 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:29.839 don't have to think about these things or can get 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.960 away with just going about business as usual, because there 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.120 are a lot of us who have immigrant family and 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.920 have loved ones who this has been done to, and 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.920 we don't get to go about our day's business as 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:49.920 usual because it's just not possible. It's just not possible. 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.360 It would be like asking me to go about my 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:57.040 life business as usual when my family in Lebanon and 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:01.520 Palestine are being bumped. Yeah, it's not possible. It is 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.800 not possible. All of these things are connected, Our lives 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.800 are connected, and we owe it to each other to 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:13.560 pay attention and to witness, especially because we are seeing 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.200 that they will kill you for paying attention and witnessing 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.440 because they don't want you to be able to exercise 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:21.280 that right. 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.240 Yeah, well, and you know. The secondary thing, and this 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.800 is something that's been pretty well known for a very 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.760 long time, is that the more of you that there 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.400 are at a thing, the less likely they are to 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.400 kill you. Yeah, and then this has been a thing 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:40.160 with you know, US police killing the protest forever, which 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.640 at the US doesn't like fire regular bullets into crowds 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:47.000 because it's a terrible idea. It's how you get uprisings, right, 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:48.680 Like you know, I mean I say this on the 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.000 show all the time. This is how the Mexican government 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:56.000 lost control of the city of Wahaka. Like they literally 0:14:56.080 --> 0:15:00.720 accidentally started like like a pseudo anarchistra in that city 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:02.760 by doing that. Right, So normally what they do is 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:04.600 they pick off people when they're on their own. 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:06.920 I'm going to be totally honest, I kind of wish 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.120 that the government would make a ridiculous mistake right now 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:15.680 that lends itself to people being able to get justice. 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.360 That's all I'll say. I'm not going to give specifical yes. 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.280 But I mean, you know, but it's also the other 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.120 thing gonna say about that that right is, like whether 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.640 or not they get away with this is also up 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:26.320 to us. 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.440 It is, it absolutely is and that is that is 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.120 why I say we owe each other everything, and we 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.880 owe each other witnessing, because the thing is the job 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:42.000 of telling these stories, of trying to help get people vulnerable, 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:48.040 vulnerable people out of detention is also falling to a 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:54.360 select few people who are the most vulnerable already, and 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:58.680 who have things on the line and things We're risking 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:00.840 to do this because we know it's the right thing. 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.160 And there are so many people with so much privilege 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:07.960 who could be doing something, whether it's really really small 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:13.800 like donating five dollars or sharing someone's story, or calling 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:17.840 Congress to have them pressure Ice to let immigrants out, 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.160 whatever it is that you could be doing, there are 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.400 so many people who are not doing that. And when 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:26.720 there are so many people who are not doing any 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.720 of the labor, all of that labor gets distributed so 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:35.560 unevenly among a few people. You know. I always think 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:39.520 about the what is it James Baldwin quote about how 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:43.000 it is the job of you know, like a few people. 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.920 It's only a few people on this earth who are 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.080 like doing the job of like loving people. Well, I'm 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:51.480 completely butchering it right now because it's late at night, 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:53.720 and I you know, can't think of it, but it's 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:55.760 it's something like that, and I think about that all 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.680 the time and something that I'm thinking about right now 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:02.360 a lot, and having a lot of conversations, mostly with 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:08.560 white people, about Hey, you need to start doing something 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.040 because you have a lot of privilege that you're not utilizing, 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.040 and when you don't utilize it, you actually are doing 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.080 a lot of harm. Not in necessarily the same way 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.880 that the ice agents are, but you're still kind of 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.800 capitulating to what they want you to do by putting 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:29.720 all of this labor on vulnerable people who have so 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.199 much to lose and so much to risk. And we 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:37.840 can't afford to burn out constantly because we don't have 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:42.320 the support and the more equitable division of labor that's needed. 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:48.560 Like we need everyone. We need everyone who can possibly 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.399 do anything, whether that's putting your bodies on the line 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.560 in person, or or if you're a disabled person and 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.679 you're in bed and you can post something online or 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.919 you can tell someone like we need to activate our 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.440 community networks for each other. 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.160 Yeah, and there's also a lot of sort of logistical stuff, 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:11.240 you know. I mean, there's like the old line about 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:13.720 the army that like five or ten to one, like 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.640 logistics people for every person who's out on the front. 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:18.879 And that's also the way that if you're going to 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:22.120 have an organizing thing that works, there's a massive sort 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.040 of logistical tale behind everyone who's out doing stuff. 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:29.160 Absolutely right, you need you need safety people too at home. 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:39.560 Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of stuff to be done. 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.440 I'll finish telling the story of what happens to Albero 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:48.720 two because I want to you know, center that because again, 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:53.000 you know, this is a this is a community issue, 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.680 and this is a community member who is missing now 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.280 who can't do his part as a part of a 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:04.199 whole community because he has he's been taken. And like 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.480 when he was taken, they had guns. They had one 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:11.320 pointed right at his wife. He was saying, you know, 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:15.639 they were saying, we're not resisting, but they kept danging 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.240 on the car window, and they reached inside the car 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.640 window and they like, you know, he and his wife 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:22.680 emphasized that they were just going to work. They weren't 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:27.200 doing anything, and I didn't care. They see a non 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:29.640 white person and they grow hungry for violence. And after 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:31.560 detaining her, you know, they asked her to sign a 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:33.960 document so that she could go get for kids. She 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:37.280 refused because she didn't trust them, and she told them 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.000 that she wasn't going to sign anything. And then later 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:40.960 they found out I think the lawyers found out that 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.399 what it was is that they were giving her a 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.840 voluntary deportation paper yep, for the whole family. 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.360 And that level they do this all the time. 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:51.240 They do this all the time. That level of deceit 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.879 and trickery is just horrible. Because they did it. They 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.240 gave it to her in English, and she doesn't speak English. 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.280 They thought they could get her to sign it to 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.919 get them out. This is being run by like the 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:13.639 same people who are banging doors down and just going 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:19.399 into houses in Minneapolis. It's all connected. They use the 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:27.560 same pactics of violence and fearmongering, and it's terrible. 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:30.199 Yeah, And I mean they've been moving personnel around so 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.560 like there's like a non zero chance that was literally 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.760 the same person, Like that person could be in Minneapolis 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:40.000 now we don't know. And this has become the sort 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.919 of background noise of American life. And he used to 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:46.080 fucking not be the background noise because they're fucking grabbing 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:46.960 people out of cars. 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:52.960 It shouldn't be I mean, every day I see people 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:59.640 posts some type of video on TikTok or Instagram reels 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:02.399 or or Twitter or a blue sky, Like, I just 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:07.800 see people everyday people post God. You know, it feels 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:12.720 so horrific to watch all of this happen and have 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.679 to go to a nine to five. And I have 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:21.159 empathy for that, especially as someone who does community organizing. 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:27.320 And I mean, I think there is a lot of sacrifice. 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:29.520 I know there's a lot of sacrifice in the types 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:31.280 of things that I do, and there's also a lot 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:36.920 of privilege in the fact that I even have community 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:41.439 and loved ones who help me to pay my rent 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.959 so that I can do this kind of organizing without 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:50.440 worrying about not having shelter. And it's like we were 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:54.919 saying before we, you know, started the recording, like I 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:58.359 take it very seriously that I need to rest and 0:21:58.440 --> 0:21:59.959 I need to feed myself, and I need to take 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:05.320 care myself because rest is not resistance, but me getting 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:07.800 the rest that I need and the care that I 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:11.359 need allows me to resist in a way that helps 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:14.119 someone else to get free. And that's like what we 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.320 all need to be doing for each other. 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:20.960 I'm just gonna say this because you know, there used 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:23.720 to be a thing people would do whatever. There is 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:26.119 a large social upheaval. It was called the occupation of 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:28.720 the factories. Yeah, you could go read Mella Testa writing 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:32.240 about it in like nineteen twenty one. Very old thing. 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:34.359 See the Seattle general strike was like the most famous 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.160 example people doing this in the US. But it was like, Okay, 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:41.760 so there's some shit going on. We need to stop 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:44.920 something from happening. So we are going to take over 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:46.879 our workplaces and run the parts of it that need 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:48.439 to be run so that people could get food, and 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:50.200 then otherwise we're not and otherwise we're control. 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:52.720 You don't actually just have to go to your line to. 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:56.399 Buy the people in Seattle. Those people didn't know what 0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:59.399 a television was. Wow, and they were able to do this. 0:22:59.880 --> 0:23:02.399 You showed one of the people in like in like 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:05.239 the Seattle, like nineteen nineteen general strikes, people who who 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:07.919 did this, Like if you showed them a computer, they 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:10.439 would have a heart attack. And they did this. So 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:13.280 I believe that all of you you have seen things 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:15.480 that would have obliterated these people's minds. 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:20.840 Oh it's I have like a slightly different take. I 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:22.879 don't know if it is like a hot take or 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:26.719 a cold take or a lukewarm take. But my perspective 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:31.080 is one who said that you just have to go 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:34.119 to your nine to five while you watch all of 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:37.879 this happen. Who said that you are saying, oh, I 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:40.879 have to do that. No one is actually making you 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:44.000 do that. The consequences of that are that if you 0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:47.520 don't go to your nine to five, or you take 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.119 a sick day or something, you might get fired, and 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:53.679 you might be in a similarly vulnerable position to someone 0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:56.960 whose life is already on the line. But if we 0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:01.280 all stood in solidarity with each other, that would be 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:06.240 less dangerous, Like if we chose each other over capitalism, 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:10.280 that would be so radical. But that's my take. 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:14.280 There are not enough cops to evict us all. There 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:15.440 simply aren't. 0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:19.960 There, really just aren't. I think that people forget or 0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:27.840 conveniently compartmentalize the truth that we as a collective, when 0:24:27.880 --> 0:24:34.960 we band together, when we refuse to participate in individualism 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:39.920 the ways that they want us to, we are so powerful. 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:43.320 And I think that that scares people because that's a 0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:47.960 lot of responsibility. But again, that's really only so much responsibility. 0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:51.919 If you see yourself as an individual as opposed to 0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:56.160 part of a collective. If you see yourself as bearing 0:24:56.600 --> 0:25:00.040 a piece of responsibility as part of a collective, the 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:03.040 same way that ants all move in a colony and 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:08.120 carry like a piece of bread together, maybe you wouldn't 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:13.040 feel so much overwhelmed because you would understand that we 0:25:13.119 --> 0:25:16.280 are in this together. And I think that we really 0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:20.360 owe that to each other to reframe that in our 0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:23.800 minds and in our nervous systems as well, so that 0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:26.760 we can just like maybe shut up and show up. 0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:28.120 Yeah. 0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:31.879 Now, speaking of showing up, Okay, yeah, we're locking back 0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:35.959 on shoes, We're locking in, We're locking the fucking we 0:25:35.960 --> 0:25:40.120 can do this, I believe in us. So going back, 0:25:40.200 --> 0:25:44.239 I guess from the sort of macro perspective to the 0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:50.320 micro individual perspective of yeah, the exact specific ways that 0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:53.680 one individual person gets treated. 0:25:53.640 --> 0:25:59.040 Totally, so sure, locking back into what is happening on 0:25:59.080 --> 0:26:03.560 a more micro level. Giving an example of how Ice 0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:11.840 is dehumanizing immigrants in attention whether they are here quote 0:26:11.920 --> 0:26:16.919 unquote illegally or not. Alberto is not here illegally, Okay, 0:26:17.000 --> 0:26:22.320 he's going through the asylum process. When the immigration attorneys 0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:25.959 on our organizing teams spoke with Alberto and specifically asked 0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:31.639 about his conditions at Fay County. He said that and 0:26:31.720 --> 0:26:34.040 granted this, I believe with some him in the last week. 0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:36.200 I think they haven't spoken to him in maybe a week. 0:26:36.680 --> 0:26:40.639 It's been hard too, But when they asked about his conditions, 0:26:40.680 --> 0:26:43.760 he said that he had all the basics, is now 0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:46.920 being given three meals a day, and was at least 0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:51.440 at that point being administered medication. We don't have very 0:26:51.440 --> 0:26:57.199 good context and accurate data on how often that's actually 0:26:57.200 --> 0:27:00.879 been happening. He has a severe seizure disorder and he 0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:05.600 requires medication to be administered at least I think twice 0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:09.879 a day, and even one missed dose can be fatal. 0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:12.320 It's been a while since they've been able to talk. 0:27:12.720 --> 0:27:15.679 I do know that he checks in with his family 0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:18.719 and a family friend every morning, only briefly. I spoke 0:27:18.840 --> 0:27:23.760 to them just before this call to get any updated information. 0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:27.960 There was a day this week where he didn't xt 0:27:28.000 --> 0:27:30.240 first thing in the morning, and we were all really worried, 0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:33.679 and we had no idea what that meant. It turns 0:27:33.680 --> 0:27:37.040 out that the WiFi just was down, but oh my god, 0:27:37.200 --> 0:27:40.119 how horrifying. Every day I wake up and I just 0:27:40.200 --> 0:27:41.800 I don't know if he's still alive. 0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:43.000 And he is. 0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:47.480 Only one of many many immigrants that I have worked 0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:49.880 on cases for and that I am trying to bring 0:27:49.920 --> 0:27:54.280 attention to. And it's terrifying to never know if he's 0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:57.440 going to be one of the many, many people who 0:27:57.480 --> 0:28:01.600 have died in there, because it's been weeks or months 0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:05.040 or a year, and so, you know, as far as 0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:09.600 as conditions go, we don't have a lot of information 0:28:09.640 --> 0:28:13.119 about his specific condition. We know that he has been struggling. 0:28:13.560 --> 0:28:16.760 We know that it's been very hard on his health. 0:28:16.920 --> 0:28:19.880 It would be hard on anyone's health, whether they were 0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:24.200 disabled or sick or not, because the conditions are inhumane. 0:28:24.320 --> 0:28:27.040 We do know as reported by other clients of the 0:28:27.040 --> 0:28:31.480 immigration attorneys on our team. We know that at different 0:28:31.520 --> 0:28:36.280 attention centers, many have told her that it's very cold. 0:28:36.680 --> 0:28:38.720 One who is with the gen pop and could only 0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:41.720 speak with her from a tablet in the room while 0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:45.160 other detainees were around. Several have told her that they 0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:49.200 were denied access to nurses and medical care when they 0:28:49.320 --> 0:28:52.840 had headaches or a sore throat. I also want to 0:28:52.880 --> 0:28:55.960 tie this back to, you know, the global pandemic. We've 0:28:56.000 --> 0:29:00.920 seen a lot of people die of COVID or other 0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:04.560 illnesses well in detention. This is a public health issue. 0:29:04.920 --> 0:29:08.720 This is a public health and safety issue. Just the 0:29:08.760 --> 0:29:13.680 same way that people who are in prisons are treated 0:29:13.720 --> 0:29:16.360 poorly and not given the medical care they need, and 0:29:16.520 --> 0:29:20.240 that faulty is part of the point. Immigrants and detention 0:29:20.400 --> 0:29:24.600 are also completely deprived of medical care that they need, 0:29:24.720 --> 0:29:27.760 and again that would be really dangerous for anyone, but 0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:33.320 for Albero, he has a severe seizure disorder, Like one 0:29:33.520 --> 0:29:37.280 thing could go wrong and he would be done. Yeah, 0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:42.680 like his life hangs in the balance. There's another client 0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:46.640 she has with castro intestinal problems told her that they 0:29:46.680 --> 0:29:49.760 basically can't eat anything because the food quality is so 0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:53.240 poor and coupled with their condition, they just vomit and 0:29:53.280 --> 0:29:58.560 have diarrhea constant meat. This is what is happening in 0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:05.680 IC attention facilities. They are just completely overrun with these 0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:10.040 public health and safety disasters and they don't have the 0:30:10.200 --> 0:30:17.440 care or attention because those conditions happening are orchestrated. 0:30:17.760 --> 0:30:20.480 Yeah, like they don't give a shit or they're orchestrated. 0:30:20.480 --> 0:30:23.720 They're a part of the cool feed. They don't care. Yeah, 0:30:23.800 --> 0:30:27.960 what's worse is they do care, but they care about 0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:29.680 creating the suffering. 0:30:30.400 --> 0:30:32.760 Yeah, well, it's like like for them, it's like these 0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:35.480 people's ultimate goal is to not have non white people 0:30:35.520 --> 0:30:37.800 in the US, right you could. You can look at like, 0:30:38.440 --> 0:30:42.560 you know, Stephen Miller's wife, like, yeah, last week was 0:30:42.600 --> 0:30:45.120 like posting shit about what will happen when they deport 0:30:45.160 --> 0:30:47.720 one hundred million Americans. It's like, yeah, right. 0:30:47.560 --> 0:30:50.360 They want enough no estate, absolutely. 0:30:49.840 --> 0:30:52.280 No, like they and they don't it doesn't really matter 0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:55.280 to them, Like you know, it's it's kind of bad 0:30:55.360 --> 0:30:58.040 PR if people die in their in their fucking camps, 0:30:58.040 --> 0:30:59.520 but they don't give it gives. These people don't give 0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:01.800 a shit whether if people die or like are sent away, 0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:05.200 Like they don't fucking care, Like they care about hurting people. 0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:06.480 They don't care where they live or die. 0:31:06.920 --> 0:31:11.360 They don't care about bad PR either to an extent, 0:31:11.840 --> 0:31:16.000 because I mean, you know, this is what the show 0:31:16.080 --> 0:31:23.520 is about. Authoritarian regimes and fascism is about control. Yeah, 0:31:23.720 --> 0:31:27.400 I mean sure, I guess maybe if there's enough bad 0:31:27.480 --> 0:31:32.000 PR and they can't literally control people on the streets 0:31:32.520 --> 0:31:37.680 who are overtaking the situation and fighting back because they've 0:31:37.680 --> 0:31:41.560 gotten bad PR. That's a problem, But in and of itself, 0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:43.640 I don't really know if they care about the bad PR. 0:31:44.440 --> 0:31:47.960 They should care about the results of the bad PR, 0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:52.200 which is why we should all keep giving them bad PR. 0:31:52.680 --> 0:31:55.040 We've seen a lot of that. There are so many 0:31:55.040 --> 0:32:00.880 things that have happened since the escalation in Minneapolis last 0:32:00.920 --> 0:32:05.800 week where Renee and Good was shot and killed. Okay, 0:32:06.120 --> 0:32:10.240 I was collecting notes before this call, and I'd already 0:32:10.280 --> 0:32:13.800 had many, and then when I was collecting notes just 0:32:13.880 --> 0:32:16.720 from today alone, I was like, oh my god, twenty 0:32:16.840 --> 0:32:19.840 things have happened. We found out in the last day alone. 0:32:19.880 --> 0:32:22.600 There was a huge piece published in Slate today that 0:32:22.760 --> 0:32:26.160 ICE is doing zero background checks on their applicants. A 0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:31.160 journalist got officially hired despite being a prominent person who 0:32:31.600 --> 0:32:35.480 speaks about leftism online. They failed a drug test, They 0:32:35.480 --> 0:32:39.280 didn't even complete all the proper paperwork. ICE has literally 0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:42.840 no idea who they're hiring, and they don't care because 0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:47.160 they'll take anyone who is willing to terrorize people like 0:32:47.320 --> 0:32:50.000 that's going to cause it's already causing a lot of 0:32:50.000 --> 0:32:53.560 community ruptors. It's going to ruin communities. And the reality 0:32:53.600 --> 0:32:55.720 is they don't care if it does, because it's actually 0:32:55.800 --> 0:32:59.160 the point. If this were about accuracy or a real 0:32:59.320 --> 0:33:04.080 quote unquote justice or Americans who are you know, quote 0:33:04.160 --> 0:33:07.880 unquote being wronged by immigrants or whatever their narrative is, 0:33:08.240 --> 0:33:11.080 they would have a vetting process. They would want the 0:33:11.120 --> 0:33:13.960 best of the best. But they don't because it's just 0:33:14.000 --> 0:33:15.480 about annihilation and control. 0:33:15.560 --> 0:33:16.160 Yeah. 0:33:16.200 --> 0:33:17.880 Well, and the other part of that too, if you 0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:19.440 want to look at the sort of more positive angle 0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:21.480 of it, is like part of what's going on here 0:33:21.600 --> 0:33:25.800 is that they can't find enough people who want to 0:33:25.800 --> 0:33:26.880 commit an ethnic cleansing. 0:33:27.640 --> 0:33:30.680 Here's my thing. I'm a little concerned that's not true. 0:33:31.360 --> 0:33:38.200 They are incentivizing people to betray their values. And part 0:33:38.240 --> 0:33:40.440 of what's going on in this country is that people 0:33:40.480 --> 0:33:43.400 are out of work. People need to stay bet in house. 0:33:44.240 --> 0:33:45.960 Yeah, but here's the thing, Like, if they were able 0:33:46.000 --> 0:33:50.200 to really easily like recruit those people into doing this, 0:33:50.600 --> 0:33:53.200 then they wouldn't be continuously upping the bonus rates, and 0:33:53.200 --> 0:33:56.080 they wouldn't be trying to like store cops from other agencies, 0:33:56.080 --> 0:33:59.760 Like I think they seem to be having legitimate problems 0:33:59.800 --> 0:34:01.920 even in a shitty job market, and. 0:34:02.000 --> 0:34:04.040 We should we should give them more. I think we 0:34:04.080 --> 0:34:06.840 should give them more. I think that we should incentivize 0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:10.560 I personally would love to figure out how to incentivize 0:34:10.680 --> 0:34:14.759 ice agents to quit their jobs. Like, I don't know 0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:17.080 what I have to do. Maybe I'll gather my like 0:34:17.120 --> 0:34:22.920 sex worker friends to organize them kind of campaign. I 0:34:22.960 --> 0:34:25.239 don't I don't know. I don't know. 0:34:25.640 --> 0:34:28.080 Well, you can you just just make their lives miserable 0:34:28.160 --> 0:34:32.160 until they quit, Like that's the that's the easy, sure. Yeah. 0:34:32.200 --> 0:34:34.080 And I And by the way, I say sex worker 0:34:34.120 --> 0:34:41.040 friends specifically because doms are tough and they would bully 0:34:42.160 --> 0:34:45.680 ice agents to no end. And I say this as 0:34:45.680 --> 0:34:46.400 a former DOBS. 0:34:46.840 --> 0:34:48.719 I believe in US. I believe in US. We can. 0:34:48.760 --> 0:34:50.799 We can. We can make these people's lives hell. We 0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:51.359 could do this. 0:34:52.440 --> 0:34:55.359 I really think that if we take collective action and 0:34:55.400 --> 0:34:59.719 we all take stock of what are my skills and 0:34:59.800 --> 0:35:03.640 I and use that to put the pressure on the 0:35:03.719 --> 0:35:08.200 people who are making this terror possible, I think that 0:35:08.239 --> 0:35:10.040 we can. I think we can take them all down. 0:35:10.120 --> 0:35:10.520 Yeah. 0:35:10.719 --> 0:35:14.080 I think that we truly could convince people to quit 0:35:14.520 --> 0:35:16.759 if we make their lives a living hell. Do not 0:35:17.000 --> 0:35:20.520 let them stay at hotels, do not let them buy groceries. 0:35:20.840 --> 0:35:23.239 Don't let them show their faces anywhere in public. Okay. 0:35:23.280 --> 0:35:25.480 This is also another thing that happened today. I think 0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:29.440 it was there was the largest data breach ever. There 0:35:29.480 --> 0:35:32.480 was a data breach today or yesterday that was forty 0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:35.359 five hundred names got leaked YEP, with info in them, 0:35:35.400 --> 0:35:38.400 so they can't be anonymous. We have to take that 0:35:38.600 --> 0:35:39.560 and run with it. 0:35:40.080 --> 0:35:43.919 Yeah. Now, legal disclaimer, we are not advocating legal actions here. 0:35:45.040 --> 0:35:46.640 We are simply not doing this. 0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:50.720 I'm just saying anything is possible if you believe. 0:35:50.960 --> 0:35:53.560 Yeah, however, coma what other people do with this data 0:35:53.600 --> 0:35:57.880 is or something we can really control it exists now, Yeah. 0:35:57.600 --> 0:35:59.759 I actually think it would be a shame if we 0:35:59.800 --> 0:36:00.759 did something with that. 0:36:01.080 --> 0:36:07.000 Yeah, you know, now, speaking of doing things with our data, 0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:09.319 I don't know. I was probably supposed to have taken 0:36:09.360 --> 0:36:11.359 like two outbreaks right now, but fuck it, we're gonna 0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:25.480 We're doing one here. I believe in us, and we 0:36:25.680 --> 0:36:30.680 are back now. One of the bleak things something that 0:36:30.719 --> 0:36:34.440 you want to talk about, Alie, is that the conditions 0:36:34.920 --> 0:36:40.400 that we're seeing here are things that have already killed people, 0:36:40.920 --> 0:36:44.480 and that the danger here compounds. The more risk you're at, 0:36:44.600 --> 0:36:46.800 the more you know, for a few again, but to 0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:50.680 take to take it. To take a completely non abstract example, 0:36:50.719 --> 0:36:53.360 if you need seizure meds twice a day when you 0:36:53.440 --> 0:36:57.360 might die, the odds of terrible stuff happening to you increases. 0:36:57.760 --> 0:36:59.960 But yeah, can we talk a bit about the other 0:37:00.200 --> 0:37:02.120 people who if this has already fucking happened to. 0:37:03.160 --> 0:37:06.440 I mean, yeah, there's so many, and we can't name 0:37:06.480 --> 0:37:09.439 them all because we don't know all of their names 0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:12.239 because again we don't have all the proper data. We 0:37:12.360 --> 0:37:15.600 only know some things. But that's why we're part of 0:37:15.800 --> 0:37:18.840 a big part of this campaign has been asking people 0:37:18.920 --> 0:37:22.719 to put pressure on congress people to release Albero, to 0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:24.719 show that we're not going to give up on him 0:37:25.840 --> 0:37:28.880 the way that other people have just been given up 0:37:28.880 --> 0:37:30.840 on and died in detention, and that we're going to 0:37:30.880 --> 0:37:34.000 work relentlessly to get him out because he matters. But 0:37:34.080 --> 0:37:37.640 you know, as ICE escalates its attainments across the country 0:37:37.680 --> 0:37:42.560 and in the Midwest, specifically in Ohio and Minnesota and 0:37:43.239 --> 0:37:47.399 all these places Chicago, Minneapolis, Columbus, what happens to him, 0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:49.960 so that's a precedent for others, the same way that 0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:53.719 what's been happening to other immigrants. Has set the precedent 0:37:53.840 --> 0:37:57.480 that this is going to keep happening, you know, showing 0:37:57.520 --> 0:38:00.399 that Ice can't just take someone and disappear and get 0:38:00.440 --> 0:38:04.000 away with it really matters for everyone else. People are 0:38:04.000 --> 0:38:08.279 watching for every immigrant detained recently and everything that ICE 0:38:08.320 --> 0:38:12.439 is rolling out and this is God the I don't 0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:15.920 even know I've lost pack because the numbers keep changing 0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:18.480 and growing. I wanted to say that the second person 0:38:18.480 --> 0:38:20.920 that we know of that that Renee was the second 0:38:20.920 --> 0:38:23.279 person that we knew of that Ice had murdered since 0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:26.359 New Year's Eve. But it wouldn't be surprising if there are, 0:38:26.400 --> 0:38:29.040 you know, so many. There's just so many immigrants who 0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:31.759 have died in Pestidina are currently dying in fusity, which 0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:33.880 is what we're trying to prevent. For Alberto and like 0:38:33.960 --> 0:38:37.560 in La I still keep Porter in his own home. Meanwhile, 0:38:38.120 --> 0:38:42.399 you know, in Chicago or now I guess Indiana, because 0:38:42.400 --> 0:38:45.920 that's where they're keeping him. They're violating and detaining families 0:38:45.960 --> 0:38:48.560 like Albero's who have done nothing to deserve this treatment. 0:38:48.880 --> 0:38:51.319 We saw a forty four year old woman, Marie and 0:38:51.560 --> 0:38:54.800 Blaze from Haiti who died in a US ice facility 0:38:55.160 --> 0:38:59.680 two or three weeks ago, after being detained since February 0:39:00.120 --> 0:39:03.880 of twenty twenty five, I believe who was captured and 0:39:03.920 --> 0:39:07.839 taken into custody at an airport outside of US territories 0:39:08.080 --> 0:39:11.120 and you know, once again showing ices lack of regard 0:39:11.239 --> 0:39:15.279 for the law, just total lawlessness. She was transferred to 0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:19.359 Louisiana and then somewhere else where she died after vocalizing 0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:21.760 trust pain. And as far as I know, she didn't 0:39:21.800 --> 0:39:24.680 go in with the disability, she didn't go in with 0:39:24.920 --> 0:39:30.800 health condition. But the conditions are so horrifying there that 0:39:30.800 --> 0:39:35.680 that is just to be expected, which is terrible, and 0:39:35.760 --> 0:39:39.080 this dangerous pattern can't continue to unfold. We don't want 0:39:39.120 --> 0:39:42.000 this to be Albero and his family's reality, nor any 0:39:42.080 --> 0:39:46.880 immigrants living nightmare. You know, like this is such a 0:39:46.880 --> 0:39:50.839 community issue across the world, Like every one of the 0:39:50.920 --> 0:39:55.720 people connected to anyone who has died in ice attention 0:39:56.640 --> 0:39:58.960 is impacted for the rest of their life by this, 0:39:59.680 --> 0:40:01.560 you know, Like it's what I was saying when I said, 0:40:02.400 --> 0:40:06.480 people who have immigrant family, we can't just go about 0:40:06.560 --> 0:40:09.759 business as usual. Every day I wake up and I 0:40:09.800 --> 0:40:12.360 don't know if something is going to happen to one 0:40:13.160 --> 0:40:16.880 or all of my loved ones who might be targeted 0:40:16.920 --> 0:40:22.200 by virtue of having dark skin, which is not a crime, 0:40:22.360 --> 0:40:25.200 but in America we're trying to make it one. And 0:40:25.960 --> 0:40:28.840 like again, we don't want this to happen to Albero. 0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:32.719 He's a community member. Everyone in the community is saddened. 0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:38.760 He's a father, he is an uncle, he is a husband. 0:40:39.440 --> 0:40:44.040 His wife is so upset and so worried and doesn't 0:40:44.080 --> 0:40:48.640 understand why this is happening, because to her, he is 0:40:48.719 --> 0:40:52.040 a man who goes to work day and night to 0:40:52.120 --> 0:40:57.480 help his family, to provide for his family, and there 0:40:57.680 --> 0:41:01.080 just is absolutely no reason for him to be in there. 0:41:01.120 --> 0:41:05.040 And she was originally in detention too, they were both detained, 0:41:05.120 --> 0:41:09.360 but they let her out, and that also feels like 0:41:09.480 --> 0:41:13.120 part of the cruelty, you know, part of the cruelty, 0:41:13.160 --> 0:41:17.440 and the conditions of dyeing in ice custody are also 0:41:17.560 --> 0:41:21.120 rooted in being separated from hair. 0:41:22.120 --> 0:41:23.000 Yeah, and love. 0:41:24.080 --> 0:41:26.319 They let her out, you know. Probably we don't know, 0:41:26.400 --> 0:41:29.600 We have no idea why. We can't begin to imagine 0:41:29.640 --> 0:41:32.319 our guests, but it probably has something to do with 0:41:32.480 --> 0:41:36.920 separating them because it makes the experience more expruciating. 0:41:37.680 --> 0:41:41.680 Yeah, and you know, as as bleak as the situation is, 0:41:41.719 --> 0:41:46.239 and it's really really fucking bad, we do in terms 0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:49.680 of being able to turn this a try to save 0:41:49.760 --> 0:41:52.440 one person's life and be use this as a precedent 0:41:52.480 --> 0:41:54.239 we can use to fucking try to get other people out. 0:41:55.080 --> 0:41:57.560 There is a legal advantage we have here that we 0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:00.960 don't in most places, which is, Yeah, as you were 0:42:01.000 --> 0:42:07.200 talking about earlier, this stop was so illegal. They literally 0:42:07.239 --> 0:42:09.240 did a whole bunch of things that they were specifically 0:42:09.360 --> 0:42:11.480 ordered by a judge not to do. Yes, and that 0:42:11.520 --> 0:42:14.200 gives us, That gives us a little bit of hope 0:42:14.520 --> 0:42:17.520 in a situation where it allows us to put pressure 0:42:17.920 --> 0:42:21.040 in ways that normally, like would be very very difficulty. 0:42:21.080 --> 0:42:22.600 So can you talk a bit more about. 0:42:22.400 --> 0:42:25.760 That the NAVA consent decree. 0:42:25.480 --> 0:42:28.160 Yeah, or like or how it can be deployed here. 0:42:28.960 --> 0:42:34.960 Yeah, I mean so right, there was nothing remotely legal 0:42:35.320 --> 0:42:39.799 about what they did. The NAVA Consent decree that exists 0:42:39.960 --> 0:42:49.600 in Chicago specifically, you know, limits ICE's ability to carry 0:42:49.640 --> 0:42:58.520 out warrantless arrests and vehicle stops. They require predetermined fallible cause, 0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:05.440 with the most recent rulings enforcing that despite constant violations 0:43:05.880 --> 0:43:11.360 by ice, but you know, groups like the National Immigrant 0:43:11.560 --> 0:43:18.120 Justice Center used that to successfully challenge those violations, leading 0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:24.759 to potential releases and actual releases for people who have 0:43:24.880 --> 0:43:30.279 been detained and orders for officers being retrained. 0:43:30.640 --> 0:43:33.120 Which I mean, they're just gonna be doing it, right, 0:43:33.160 --> 0:43:34.759 but like they're just gonna keep doing it. 0:43:34.800 --> 0:43:37.759 But you know, wait, what happened in Minneapolis for example 0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:42.600 with Renee and good they got in trouble. Actually the 0:43:42.680 --> 0:43:45.680 officers had something sent to them to remind them, like, hey, 0:43:45.760 --> 0:43:47.920 so you actually like can't do things the way that 0:43:47.960 --> 0:43:51.399 you did, and things like the NAVI consent decree. Right, 0:43:51.560 --> 0:43:55.920 they cause problems because you can wave around a paper 0:43:55.960 --> 0:43:59.200 and say hey, like you can't do this, and like 0:43:59.760 --> 0:44:02.839 is it kind of as fake as the constitution in 0:44:02.880 --> 0:44:07.200 some ways? Yeah, like they kind of don't care about it. Yeah, 0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:10.560 But it is the tool that can be used by 0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:14.319 lawyers like the wonderful immigration lawyers that we have on 0:44:14.360 --> 0:44:19.719 our team, and we have Pala and and who are 0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:24.400 or the immigration attorneys helping Alberto and his wife, and 0:44:25.200 --> 0:44:29.000 they can use that like they've filed a habeas and 0:44:29.640 --> 0:44:32.040 they can use all of this evidence of how they 0:44:32.080 --> 0:44:38.000 were illegally detained and violated without any grounds to push 0:44:38.040 --> 0:44:40.360 back and say you need to release him immediately. 0:44:41.040 --> 0:44:43.360 The piece of paper for the judge does give us 0:44:43.400 --> 0:44:46.160 a little bit of openings here. And could you explain 0:44:46.239 --> 0:44:48.719 to people, like what you know what people listening to 0:44:48.719 --> 0:44:50.600 the show right now can do to help here? 0:44:51.280 --> 0:44:55.120 Yeah, I mean, I would say two folds. If we 0:44:55.160 --> 0:44:59.839 are looking at Alberto's case and his family's case, they're 0:45:00.440 --> 0:45:04.279 is a crowd fund that they can donate to. I 0:45:04.320 --> 0:45:06.640 can send you the link that you can share. 0:45:07.080 --> 0:45:08.360 Yeah, we will link in the description. 0:45:09.040 --> 0:45:12.440 We really need people to donate to that. Again, Renee 0:45:12.480 --> 0:45:15.279 and Good was able to her wife was able to 0:45:15.360 --> 0:45:20.360 raise one point four million dollars in a day, and well, 0:45:20.400 --> 0:45:24.160 I am hoping and have faith that they will redistribute 0:45:24.239 --> 0:45:27.120 that to other people in need who are impacted by 0:45:27.200 --> 0:45:31.880 situations like this. It doesn't really feel great to see 0:45:32.040 --> 0:45:35.640 white people get all that money when we can't even 0:45:35.680 --> 0:45:39.879 push past fourteen thousand dollars for Albero. So we really 0:45:39.960 --> 0:45:42.600 need people to donate. There is also a change dot 0:45:42.760 --> 0:45:45.799 org petition for people to sign. We have a few 0:45:45.840 --> 0:45:47.880 thousand people who have signed it, but we need more. 0:45:48.480 --> 0:45:54.560 Asking for Congress to pressure Ice to release him. This 0:45:54.640 --> 0:45:59.240 would also be monumental for other immigrants and attention. Yeah, 0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:02.600 if we can use this as a case study, we 0:46:02.880 --> 0:46:06.640 know what we can get done through people power, through 0:46:06.719 --> 0:46:11.479 sheer will, and through not allowing things to just fall 0:46:11.600 --> 0:46:14.640 through the cracks of social media because you're too busy 0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:18.160 doom scrolling. That being said, what people can also do 0:46:18.520 --> 0:46:22.959 is they can post. I mean, I think that people 0:46:23.000 --> 0:46:26.680 should doom scroll less if it means that their nervous 0:46:26.680 --> 0:46:30.520 systems will be more regulated so that they can go 0:46:30.800 --> 0:46:37.239 up to defend community members and protect community members. But 0:46:38.360 --> 0:46:41.440 if what you have is your phone in bed and 0:46:41.520 --> 0:46:47.040 you're scrolling post fair, let people know what is happening. 0:46:47.080 --> 0:46:50.799 Refuse to be silent, refuse to just go about your 0:46:50.880 --> 0:46:55.759 day business as usual. Talk about things. Let them know 0:46:56.400 --> 0:47:00.319 that people see what's happening and they're paying attention. And 0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:03.640 we are not going to just let people be disappeared 0:47:03.840 --> 0:47:08.600 or killed and die in detention. We are not going 0:47:08.600 --> 0:47:12.200 to abandon vulnerable people. I every single one of us 0:47:12.920 --> 0:47:16.120 as the opportunity to use our voice. You don't have 0:47:16.239 --> 0:47:20.440 to be me, you don't have to be a well 0:47:20.480 --> 0:47:25.799 known person who has large platforms. Every single one of 0:47:25.880 --> 0:47:30.360 us has a community that we can activate at any time. 0:47:31.120 --> 0:47:34.600 You text five people and tell them about something that 0:47:34.680 --> 0:47:37.840 is being done to someone, and they text five people, 0:47:37.960 --> 0:47:41.880 and they text five people. That's the entire world. Baby, Like, 0:47:41.960 --> 0:47:42.879 we got this shit. 0:47:43.239 --> 0:47:47.920 I believe we can appropriate pubids, keep tactics to help people. 0:47:48.680 --> 0:47:50.080 I believe in us. 0:47:50.440 --> 0:47:53.840 Pete Seeger said, solidarity forever. Okay, I believe that we 0:47:53.880 --> 0:47:59.160 will win. If what you do is make memes, make 0:47:59.200 --> 0:48:02.840 a meme, make a copy pasta, make a copy pasta 0:48:02.920 --> 0:48:06.239 and send it to people. Like if your method is 0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:09.759 shit posting, sure, take whatever you got and find a 0:48:09.760 --> 0:48:12.839 way to spread the news. And you know, do it 0:48:12.880 --> 0:48:17.560 for other immigrants too, you know, do it for do 0:48:17.640 --> 0:48:21.600 it for whoever. But the more you speak out, the 0:48:21.640 --> 0:48:26.200 more you make it possible for other people to speak out, Yeah, 0:48:26.200 --> 0:48:29.160 because they realize they're not going to be the only 0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:31.160 ones even if they're afraid to say something. 0:48:31.440 --> 0:48:34.760 Yeah, And it's hard, it's harder to crack down on everyone. Sure. 0:48:34.960 --> 0:48:40.080 And also the more you show people like I actually 0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:43.719 have no idea. If he knows how much support he has, 0:48:43.840 --> 0:48:47.400 I would love for him to know that so that 0:48:47.520 --> 0:48:51.319 it helps him to get through. I know he knows 0:48:51.360 --> 0:48:53.640 that he has his family's support, and that's a lot. 0:48:53.760 --> 0:48:56.759 That's more than enough. But I would also, you know, 0:48:57.120 --> 0:49:04.040 love for people to just really like hair for immigrants 0:49:04.400 --> 0:49:09.200 and non white people in general right now who are 0:49:09.800 --> 0:49:13.879 on this soil that we call, you know, the land 0:49:13.880 --> 0:49:17.880 of the United States, because basically, anyone who is not 0:49:18.000 --> 0:49:21.759 white right now is terrified of what might happen to 0:49:21.800 --> 0:49:25.920 them if they're on the wrong street at the wrong time, 0:49:26.120 --> 0:49:30.400 and they're rolling out these terror campaigns in Oregon and 0:49:31.400 --> 0:49:36.200 Columbus and Minneapolis and Chicago and New York. I knew 0:49:36.239 --> 0:49:38.560 they were going to escalate things in New York after 0:49:38.880 --> 0:49:42.960 Zoron took office, because it's a great excuse. Everyone is 0:49:43.080 --> 0:49:46.160 terrified right now. And the best thing that you can 0:49:46.200 --> 0:49:49.640 do is show up every day and be human to 0:49:49.760 --> 0:49:53.560 each other. Buy someone a coffee, like offer to just 0:49:53.719 --> 0:49:57.879 listen to a non white person in your life, take 0:49:57.880 --> 0:50:01.919 an anti racism course up as a human being who 0:50:02.000 --> 0:50:05.560 cares about other human beings, because that is the thing 0:50:06.160 --> 0:50:11.120 that matters most. When I think about stories that we 0:50:11.280 --> 0:50:15.000 have from way back in history, like all just flag 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:17.920 you know, Anne Frank, because that's the one that everyone knows. 0:50:18.239 --> 0:50:20.600 The thing that mattered for her. The thing that kept 0:50:20.640 --> 0:50:24.680 her alive for longer than she could have maybe been 0:50:24.719 --> 0:50:28.920 alive is people being human to each other. Like, I 0:50:28.960 --> 0:50:33.200 think that's such an underrated way to show up, and 0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:36.640 we take it for granted every day because we don't 0:50:36.719 --> 0:50:40.640 consider always how our smallest actions impact each other. And 0:50:40.680 --> 0:50:44.600 the truth is that your smallest actions could be the 0:50:44.640 --> 0:50:48.480 difference between someone losing their life or not. 0:50:49.480 --> 0:50:52.800 Yeah, I don't know. I'm to close this by doing 0:50:55.000 --> 0:50:58.480 as this tradition about what in every twelve episodes I 0:50:58.640 --> 0:51:03.719 do answer something from the fucking and Darnamic manifesto. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:51:04.200 --> 0:51:06.600 this is the he has this lie, hecauys. Remember that 0:51:06.640 --> 0:51:09.520 the frontiers of the rebellion is everywhere, and even the 0:51:09.560 --> 0:51:15.759 smallest act if insurrection pushes our lines forward, and it does, right, 0:51:15.960 --> 0:51:20.640 It's impossible to know until it happens what the single 0:51:20.800 --> 0:51:23.080 push that makes the damn break is going to be. 0:51:23.760 --> 0:51:28.120 But it will be something, yeah, And it is literally 0:51:28.239 --> 0:51:32.080 impossible to tell what it's going to be until you 0:51:32.080 --> 0:51:34.200 know the The The only way you can find out 0:51:34.400 --> 0:51:36.160 if the action that you are taking is going to 0:51:36.200 --> 0:51:38.279 be the one that knocks everything over is by doing it. 0:51:38.960 --> 0:51:40.600 So go do. 0:51:41.840 --> 0:51:46.120 Absolutely, Yeah, we owe each other everything, and I'm gonna 0:51:46.880 --> 0:51:50.279 I'm gonna do something kind of silly because I am 0:51:50.480 --> 0:51:53.640 who I am. But this is one of my favorite 0:51:54.440 --> 0:51:59.360 songs in the world. And this is a Shrek reference. 0:51:59.560 --> 0:52:01.040 Oh my God, all. 0:52:00.840 --> 0:52:07.920 Star by smash Mouth, Like you know all Flickwitters's gold 0:52:08.080 --> 0:52:11.719 only shooting Stars, break the mold. You'll never know if 0:52:11.760 --> 0:52:13.640 you don't go, You'll never shine if you don't go. 0:52:14.080 --> 0:52:20.160 Like that, it's a directive. That's a directive. I think 0:52:20.200 --> 0:52:23.280 we should listen to smash Mouth and we should try. 0:52:23.760 --> 0:52:26.239 We should just try for each other. I take that 0:52:26.280 --> 0:52:28.160 song very serious. 0:52:27.800 --> 0:52:31.080 You know, I really, really truly. When I was planning 0:52:31.120 --> 0:52:33.560 this episode like a week ago, it did not think 0:52:33.600 --> 0:52:35.680 it was going to end with and Or and Shrek. 0:52:35.840 --> 0:52:40.040 But you know, this is why you could never look. 0:52:40.200 --> 0:52:42.799 You never know how things are going to go, and 0:52:42.840 --> 0:52:46.080 sometimes they end well. Yeah, Allie, do you have anything 0:52:46.080 --> 0:52:47.960 else that you want to make sure people know? And 0:52:48.040 --> 0:52:49.120 where can people find you? 0:52:50.040 --> 0:52:52.560 I don't have anything else that I think people should know. 0:52:53.200 --> 0:53:01.080 People can find me on Instagram at literally l I 0:53:01.280 --> 0:53:04.960 T E R E l l Y like literally but 0:53:05.120 --> 0:53:06.160 with my name E. 0:53:06.200 --> 0:53:09.319 L L Y incredible. Well, we'll have this in the 0:53:09.320 --> 0:53:10.359 description too great. 0:53:10.400 --> 0:53:15.120 That's been my username everywhere on social media since I 0:53:15.200 --> 0:53:19.680 was fifteen, so it's been sixteen years. People are always like, 0:53:19.719 --> 0:53:23.520 how did you get that user name gil gil baby? 0:53:25.480 --> 0:53:28.160 You had to you had to be on on Twitter 0:53:28.200 --> 0:53:31.080 as a as a kid. But yeah, that's that's It's 0:53:31.160 --> 0:53:35.920 my same username everywhere. I have a newsletter that you 0:53:35.920 --> 0:53:39.640 could find on my social media where I write about 0:53:39.640 --> 0:53:42.560 community care and what we owe to each other. I'm 0:53:42.600 --> 0:53:44.920 way less concerned about people being able to find me 0:53:45.719 --> 0:53:49.560 except to just, you know, go go share the campaigns 0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:53.880 that I've shared on my page for Alberto and other immigrants, 0:53:54.320 --> 0:53:57.960 because I am constantly sharing things. If you know, this 0:53:58.200 --> 0:54:00.600 helps me to get more of a plot so that 0:54:00.640 --> 0:54:04.360 people share more of the crucial campaigns that I share. 0:54:04.520 --> 0:54:08.920 That is great. My main concern is I don't need 0:54:08.960 --> 0:54:13.520 to be seen or heard or listened to any more 0:54:14.120 --> 0:54:17.560 than is necessary to get people to take action to 0:54:17.600 --> 0:54:22.440 help more vulnerable people than me. But if people also 0:54:22.440 --> 0:54:24.719 want to listen to things I have to say, or 0:54:24.880 --> 0:54:29.279 go for it. I quote Mashmouth a lot, and I'm 0:54:29.360 --> 0:54:31.440 very gay. 0:54:31.480 --> 0:54:34.920 We love to see it. Okay, this has been it 0:54:34.920 --> 0:54:37.520 could happen here a podcast done by the girl who 0:54:37.600 --> 0:54:41.120 posted iost be destroyed after every single post for eight 0:54:41.120 --> 0:54:44.520 goddamn years. And now we're here, so let's go fight. 0:54:44.920 --> 0:54:48.520 And now we're here, and for its ebooks, everything happens 0:54:48.560 --> 0:54:49.080 so much. 0:54:49.520 --> 0:55:07.400 Yes, welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. 0:55:08.120 --> 0:55:12.360 Last September, President Trump announced a federal crackdown on left 0:55:12.400 --> 0:55:16.480 wing radical terrorism by signing an executive order dubbing quote 0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:21.719 unquote Antifa a domestic terrorist organization and directing federal law 0:55:21.760 --> 0:55:25.480 enforcement to investigate potential federal crimes related to political violence, 0:55:25.840 --> 0:55:31.160 especially stemming from quote anti Americanism, anti capitalism, anti Christianity, 0:55:31.440 --> 0:55:38.000 and hostility towards traditional American values. Last month, the FBI 0:55:38.239 --> 0:55:42.120 claimed one of their first big victories against so called 0:55:42.200 --> 0:55:48.000 Antifa terrorism since Trump's National security directive. On December twelfth, 0:55:48.120 --> 0:55:52.120 the FBI arrested four people in southern California, who the 0:55:52.160 --> 0:55:56.560 government claims are members of a far left group called 0:55:56.680 --> 0:56:01.960 the Turtle Island Liberation Front. The criminal complaint, signed on 0:56:02.000 --> 0:56:05.880 December thirteenth by an FBI agent working at the Joint 0:56:05.960 --> 0:56:10.160 Terrorism Task Force office in Los Angeles, alleges that these 0:56:10.200 --> 0:56:14.400 four individuals conspired to construct and detonate a series of 0:56:14.440 --> 0:56:18.920 bombs in southern California on New Year's Eve twenty twenty five. 0:56:19.719 --> 0:56:23.640 The four defendants were first charged with conspiracy and possession 0:56:23.760 --> 0:56:28.520 of an unregistered destructive device. Then on December twenty third, 0:56:28.920 --> 0:56:33.719 a federal grand jury indicted them on additional terrorism related felonies. 0:56:34.280 --> 0:56:37.279 Here's a brief clip from the FBI press conference announcing 0:56:37.320 --> 0:56:42.680 the arrests where First Assistant US Attorney Bill Assley compared 0:56:42.880 --> 0:56:46.799 the Turtle Island Liberation Front group to Antifa. 0:56:47.600 --> 0:56:51.160 This case is another reminder about the dangers that radicalized 0:56:51.480 --> 0:56:55.160 Antifa like groups posed to public safety and the rule 0:56:55.280 --> 0:56:55.760 of law. 0:56:56.400 --> 0:56:59.319 In court documents, the defendants are not just referred to 0:56:59.440 --> 0:57:03.400 by their eagle names, but also by their direct action 0:57:03.719 --> 0:57:10.120 or signal code names. Audrey Eileen Carrol aka Asanach or 0:57:10.440 --> 0:57:17.440 Black Moon, Zachary Aaron Paige aka ak Ash Carrington or 0:57:17.640 --> 0:57:23.919 Cuthulhu's Daughter, Dante Garfield aka Nomad, and Tina Laie aka 0:57:24.120 --> 0:57:29.160 kickwere The criminal complaint states that after forming the initial 0:57:29.280 --> 0:57:34.480 bombing plan, Carol and Page recruited additional co conspirators who 0:57:34.560 --> 0:57:39.360 participated in further planning meetings and helped procure bomb making materials. 0:57:40.400 --> 0:57:43.440 On December twelfth, the four defendants traveled to a remote 0:57:43.440 --> 0:57:46.680 location in the Mohave Desert with the alleged intent to 0:57:46.840 --> 0:57:51.840 build and test explosive devices. An undercover FBI agent was 0:57:51.880 --> 0:57:55.880 present at the testing site and a surveillance plane observed 0:57:56.040 --> 0:58:01.920 from overhead. Before the defendants completed assembling a functional explosive device, 0:58:02.280 --> 0:58:06.920 the FBI arrested Carol, Paige Garfield, and Lie. From the 0:58:07.000 --> 0:58:11.080 court documents that are currently available, the earliest allusion to 0:58:11.240 --> 0:58:14.280 this New Year's Eve bombing plot is in a signal 0:58:14.280 --> 0:58:18.880 message dated November twenty fourth, twenty twenty five, allegedly from 0:58:19.040 --> 0:58:22.960 one of the defendants, Audrey Eileen Carroll, to whom they 0:58:23.000 --> 0:58:26.800 believed was a genuine co conspirator but was actually a 0:58:26.920 --> 0:58:32.080 confidential human source working with law enforcement. According to the indictment, 0:58:32.760 --> 0:58:36.240 this alleged signal message from Carol stated that she and 0:58:36.320 --> 0:58:39.440 quote unquote four comrades were planning to go to the 0:58:39.480 --> 0:58:43.000 desert from December eleventh to December thirteenth, twenty twenty five, 0:58:43.280 --> 0:58:46.720 to quote test the items we are going to use 0:58:46.960 --> 0:58:53.040 for those party plans unquote. This message references pre existing 0:58:53.120 --> 0:58:57.919 quote unquote party plans, which any prior origin of has 0:58:58.040 --> 0:59:03.160 not yet been elaborated on. This confidential Human Source appears 0:59:03.200 --> 0:59:08.800 to be an individual embedded in the Los Angeles activist scene. 0:59:08.880 --> 0:59:13.040 The criminal complaint describes them like this quote. The confidential 0:59:13.120 --> 0:59:16.240 Human Source is cooperating with law enforcement and is a 0:59:16.320 --> 0:59:20.800 validated and vetted source. The Confidential Human Source has been 0:59:20.840 --> 0:59:25.040 a reliable source information since in or around August twenty 0:59:25.120 --> 0:59:29.840 twenty one. The confidential Human Source is cooperating for financial compensation. 0:59:30.520 --> 0:59:34.120 The confidential Human Source does not have any criminal history. 0:59:34.440 --> 0:59:38.560 The Confidential Human Source provided past reliable reporting on other 0:59:38.640 --> 0:59:42.680 cases and has provided reliable reporting in this case. 0:59:43.080 --> 0:59:44.520 Unquote. 0:59:44.600 --> 0:59:48.400 The quote unquote. Turtle Island Liberation Front appears to be 0:59:48.440 --> 0:59:51.720 a relatively new group with a social media footprint that 0:59:51.760 --> 0:59:56.000 only goes back to July twenty twenty five. The Instagram 0:59:56.040 --> 1:00:01.760 bio for their LA chapter reads quote liberation through decolonization 1:00:02.080 --> 1:00:03.480 and tribal sovereignty. 1:00:03.960 --> 1:00:04.280 Quote. 1:00:05.080 --> 1:00:08.240 Their most recent post, from December twelfth, the day of 1:00:08.280 --> 1:00:12.080 the arrests, is promoting a quote unquote Palestine pop up 1:00:12.120 --> 1:00:16.480 market in Culver City. A post from November twenty eighth 1:00:16.520 --> 1:00:20.240 reads quote if they hurt you, they hurt me too. 1:00:21.000 --> 1:00:25.840 Our destinies are intertwined. Liberation for one must mean liberation 1:00:26.040 --> 1:00:29.600 for all. The empire must fall, and from within the 1:00:29.640 --> 1:00:32.120 belly of the beast, we must be the ones to 1:00:32.240 --> 1:00:36.840 dismantle it. Revolution is the only way stop quote unquote 1:00:36.880 --> 1:00:42.040 peaceful protesting, rise up, fight back. We are not outnumbered. 1:00:42.360 --> 1:00:47.640 They are organize and be ready unquote. As news of 1:00:47.800 --> 1:00:50.520 this group and the bombing plot spread around the Internet 1:00:50.600 --> 1:00:53.560 last month among the left, there was a lot of 1:00:53.640 --> 1:00:57.800 skepticism pointed at the authenticity of the story and the 1:00:57.840 --> 1:01:02.520 Turtle Island Liberation Front grid group itself, with questions pointed 1:01:02.560 --> 1:01:06.000 at its name and some language used in their social 1:01:06.040 --> 1:01:09.640 media posts. The name derives from a term that some 1:01:09.880 --> 1:01:14.240 Indigenous tribes used to describe the North American continent and 1:01:14.440 --> 1:01:17.680 is common language among a certain sect of quote unquote 1:01:17.760 --> 1:01:22.720 land back activists. The Liberation Front moniker has been used 1:01:22.760 --> 1:01:26.560 by a collection of direct action based groups, most notably 1:01:26.960 --> 1:01:30.920 the Earth Liberation Front and the Animal Liberation Front in 1:01:30.960 --> 1:01:35.440 the two thousands. Though the Turtle Island Liberation Front group 1:01:35.560 --> 1:01:39.400 doesn't seem to have been a formalized activist group for 1:01:39.520 --> 1:01:43.880 very long, there were genuine people involved with this group, 1:01:43.960 --> 1:01:47.960 as evidenced by there being for defendants in this criminal case. 1:01:48.640 --> 1:01:51.919 The Turtle Island Liberation Front Instagram account was run by 1:01:52.040 --> 1:01:54.680 one of these defendants, and the language used in their 1:01:54.720 --> 1:01:58.440 posts is not uncommon among the quote unquote anti imperialists 1:01:58.800 --> 1:02:01.840 whose ideology is grown in influence among the American left 1:02:01.960 --> 1:02:06.560 during Israel's genocide in Palestine. And though both an FBI 1:02:06.640 --> 1:02:11.320 informant and an undercover employee played a part in this investigation, 1:02:11.880 --> 1:02:14.360 the group seems to have contained a collection of genuine 1:02:14.360 --> 1:02:19.000 individuals who have participated in the wider Los Angeles activist 1:02:19.000 --> 1:02:24.360 scene and especially anti Israel protests. The indictment and criminal 1:02:24.360 --> 1:02:29.280 complaint outlined the material steps that defendants allegedly took to 1:02:29.480 --> 1:02:34.640 detail the plans of this bombing plot and procure materials 1:02:34.680 --> 1:02:39.920 to construct explosive devices without material support from FBI sources 1:02:40.040 --> 1:02:44.560 or undercover employees. All the information in the indictment and 1:02:44.640 --> 1:02:48.160 criminal complaint is alleged, and all the defendants should be 1:02:48.240 --> 1:02:53.120 considered innocent until proven guilty. The indictment claims that Carol 1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:56.920 set up an in person meeting for November twenty sixth 1:02:57.080 --> 1:03:00.840 to discuss the bombing plot with another allegedly Island Liberation 1:03:00.880 --> 1:03:04.760 Front member Zachary Aaron Page, and the Confidential Human Source, 1:03:05.080 --> 1:03:09.960 who were instructed to quote where casual block no devices. 1:03:10.440 --> 1:03:12.320 If you can't leave it at home, have it turned 1:03:12.360 --> 1:03:15.400 off and wrapped in tinfoil makeshift Faraday bag. 1:03:15.960 --> 1:03:16.280 Quote. 1:03:17.000 --> 1:03:20.800 During this in person meeting, Carol allegedly distributed an eight 1:03:20.960 --> 1:03:27.560 page handwritten document titled Operation Midnight Sun, outlining the plan 1:03:27.680 --> 1:03:30.560 for the bombing to both the Confidential Human Source and 1:03:30.640 --> 1:03:34.400 co defendant Zachary Page. Carol allegedly retained two to four 1:03:34.480 --> 1:03:38.440 additional copies of the handwritten plan. The indictment says that 1:03:38.520 --> 1:03:41.520 Carol explained that the document was handwritten because she quote 1:03:41.720 --> 1:03:44.840 did not want any traces of the attack plan on 1:03:45.000 --> 1:03:49.840 a computer. After this meeting, Carol allegedly sent an encrypted 1:03:49.880 --> 1:03:53.280 message to the Confidential Human Source about the bomb testing 1:03:53.360 --> 1:03:58.040 camp out in the desert. Quote this trip is very spicy, LOL. 1:03:58.480 --> 1:04:01.360 Will be testing the things were going to make for December, 1:04:02.040 --> 1:04:05.240 like the things in the instructions on that document I 1:04:05.320 --> 1:04:09.200 gave you. Testing first is important so we know how 1:04:09.240 --> 1:04:13.800 well they work, lol unquote. The plan was for teams 1:04:13.880 --> 1:04:18.720 of four on the ground participants to plant backpacks containing 1:04:18.800 --> 1:04:24.040 quote unquote complex pipe bombs or IED's improvised closive devices 1:04:24.640 --> 1:04:28.920 outside of buildings at five locations targeting two US companies, 1:04:29.280 --> 1:04:33.120 and then simultaneously detonate the bombs at midnight on New 1:04:33.200 --> 1:04:37.000 Year's Eve twenty twenty five. There would be one off 1:04:37.040 --> 1:04:40.080 the ground member assisting the teams remotely by listening to 1:04:40.080 --> 1:04:43.760 police scanners or stationed in a vehicle in case quote 1:04:43.920 --> 1:04:48.560 an emergency getaway is needed unquote, and one member of 1:04:48.760 --> 1:04:51.760 each on the ground team would create graffiti of quote 1:04:52.080 --> 1:04:55.760 a red triangle and one message of the teams, choosing 1:04:55.920 --> 1:04:59.240 on the sidewalk closest to the building while the other 1:04:59.400 --> 1:05:01.280 three are placing the devices. 1:05:01.800 --> 1:05:02.120 Quote. 1:05:02.920 --> 1:05:06.360 The indictment claims that the handwritten plan also instructed co 1:05:06.360 --> 1:05:10.280 conspirators quote, once you plant your IEDs, if there is 1:05:10.360 --> 1:05:14.440 any time to safely do so, dump an accelerant around 1:05:14.520 --> 1:05:18.640 the premises, such as gasoline for added effect. We want 1:05:18.680 --> 1:05:23.280 to do as much damage as possible unquote. The plan 1:05:23.360 --> 1:05:28.120 identified five target locations as quote unquote marks with five 1:05:28.200 --> 1:05:33.960 more blank slots captioned add more if enough comrades. The 1:05:34.000 --> 1:05:37.720 criminal complaint states that these targets were quote property and 1:05:37.800 --> 1:05:41.400 facilities operated by two separate companies that are used or 1:05:41.440 --> 1:05:45.840 engaged in activities affecting interstate and foreign commerce. 1:05:46.200 --> 1:05:47.680 Unquote. 1:05:47.760 --> 1:05:50.280 I'm going to quote from three sections of the criminal 1:05:50.280 --> 1:05:54.960 complaint that outline some of the opsec or operational security 1:05:55.080 --> 1:06:00.120 precautions that are allegedly included in this handwritten plan. Quote. 1:06:00.240 --> 1:06:04.240 The plan described multiple operational security measures the co conspirators 1:06:04.240 --> 1:06:07.360 should take to conceal their identities, such as the use 1:06:07.400 --> 1:06:09.800 of a burner phone that would be disposed of after 1:06:09.840 --> 1:06:12.920 the bombings by quote submerging it in a concrete brick 1:06:13.040 --> 1:06:16.120 after destroying the sim and then disposing of the brick 1:06:16.240 --> 1:06:19.800 in a body of water unquote. The target date of 1:06:19.840 --> 1:06:23.080 the operation, New Year's Eve, was identified as an opportune 1:06:23.120 --> 1:06:26.479 time because quote fireworks will be going off at this time, 1:06:26.600 --> 1:06:28.960 so explosions will be less likely to be noticed as 1:06:28.960 --> 1:06:33.120 immediately as any normal day unquote. The plan emphasized that 1:06:33.240 --> 1:06:36.760 quote absolutely no mistakes can be made. 1:06:37.040 --> 1:06:37.320 Quote. 1:06:37.920 --> 1:06:41.400 The plans outline the use of quote unquote black block 1:06:41.880 --> 1:06:45.720 over top of a layer of quote gray slash casual 1:06:45.800 --> 1:06:50.000 block on top of normal street clothes, and noted to 1:06:50.080 --> 1:06:53.320 keep hair very tightly concealed, and to wear gloves for 1:06:53.400 --> 1:06:57.640 the purpose of avoidance of leaving behind DNA. The plan 1:06:57.760 --> 1:07:01.040 further instructed that participants should leave their personal devices at 1:07:01.040 --> 1:07:03.720 home and to make sure the devices were set up 1:07:03.760 --> 1:07:07.080 to stream a long movie during the time of the attacks, 1:07:07.560 --> 1:07:10.920 as so to craft an alibi or quote unquote, plausible 1:07:10.920 --> 1:07:14.680 deniability by having it appear as though the actor was 1:07:14.840 --> 1:07:20.120 actively using their devices. The plan discussed pre operational surveillance 1:07:20.120 --> 1:07:24.560 of targets, identification of D block or D clothing locations, 1:07:25.360 --> 1:07:30.480 and not leaving quote anything other than the IED's behind unquote, 1:07:30.960 --> 1:07:34.560 as they could not quote risk any evidence tracing back 1:07:34.600 --> 1:07:38.560 to us unquote. The plan also noted the benefit of 1:07:38.680 --> 1:07:42.680 placing a small pebble in a shoe to alter natural 1:07:42.720 --> 1:07:47.360 gait to obfuscate their identification. Instructions on how to purchase 1:07:47.400 --> 1:07:51.280 materials to construct a pipe bomb suggested using cash only, 1:07:51.720 --> 1:07:56.320 purchasing in small quantities to avoid suspicion, and splitting purchases 1:07:56.360 --> 1:08:00.360 amongst a team rather than individually. In addition into the 1:08:00.360 --> 1:08:04.680 plan of action and operational security tactics, detailed instructions were 1:08:04.680 --> 1:08:08.000 provided on the components required to build a pipe bomb, 1:08:08.280 --> 1:08:24.400 as well as how to create homemade gunpowder. On December second, 1:08:24.560 --> 1:08:27.480 there was another in person meeting between the law enforcement 1:08:27.560 --> 1:08:32.400 source Carol and Page, as well as two other co conspirators, 1:08:32.520 --> 1:08:35.719 to go over the plan. They met again on December 1:08:35.760 --> 1:08:39.320 seventh to review the bombing plot an allegedly discussed intent 1:08:39.520 --> 1:08:44.519 to conduct future attacks against federal offices. This meeting was 1:08:44.560 --> 1:08:48.920 also attended by an undercover FBI employee who was being 1:08:48.960 --> 1:08:53.599 recruited to join the operation. The undercover asked Carol about 1:08:53.600 --> 1:08:57.679 the black powder instructions in the handwritten plan, and Carol 1:08:57.760 --> 1:09:02.280 responded that she conducted the recent search herself and discussed 1:09:02.360 --> 1:09:06.360 wanting to test several different types of bomb to determine 1:09:06.479 --> 1:09:10.920 which could quote unquote completely pulverize their assigned building on 1:09:11.000 --> 1:09:14.920 New Year's Eve. To quote the criminal complaint quote, Carol 1:09:14.960 --> 1:09:19.000 stated that she had acquired some components thirteen PVC pipes 1:09:19.520 --> 1:09:23.040 and that she had bought potassium nitrate on Amazon using 1:09:23.080 --> 1:09:25.479 a burner account that was scheduled to be delivered on 1:09:25.520 --> 1:09:29.880 December eleventh, twenty twenty five. During this in person meeting, 1:09:29.960 --> 1:09:34.519 Carol confirmed that she operated the Turnal Island Liberation Front 1:09:34.600 --> 1:09:38.160 Instagram account and that she had met a co conspirator 1:09:38.280 --> 1:09:42.000 through said Instagram account. The indictment claims that Carol told 1:09:42.080 --> 1:09:45.879 co conspirators in this meeting quote what we are about 1:09:45.960 --> 1:09:51.680 to do that's gonna be like a Luigi level situation unquote, 1:09:52.080 --> 1:09:54.479 and that it was time for America to fall, and 1:09:54.520 --> 1:09:59.000 that America falling will make Israel fall. According to the indictment, 1:09:59.200 --> 1:10:03.960 during this December seventh meeting, Page told attendees again, including 1:10:04.080 --> 1:10:08.479 an undercover FBI employee, that they were doing everything quote 1:10:08.800 --> 1:10:12.799 to be as clean as possible because one hundred thousand 1:10:12.840 --> 1:10:17.799 percent the FBI is gonna be like on that shit. Yeah, 1:10:17.880 --> 1:10:22.280 so we all know what we're getting into unquote. In person, 1:10:22.479 --> 1:10:26.320 Page outlined some of the operational security precautions to avoid 1:10:26.720 --> 1:10:31.000 law enforcement detection, like covering shoes with socks to cover 1:10:31.080 --> 1:10:35.439 shoe prints, and burning shoes after the bombing. Page also 1:10:35.479 --> 1:10:39.280 allegedly asked attendees if they would like to receive firearms 1:10:39.320 --> 1:10:41.920 training from a group that held a training about a 1:10:42.000 --> 1:10:45.320 month prior, and Carol said that she had a contact 1:10:45.360 --> 1:10:50.160 who could obtain unregistered ars. This wasn't the first time 1:10:50.320 --> 1:10:55.320 Turtle Island Liberation Front members allegedly brought up firearms. The 1:10:55.320 --> 1:10:59.120 indictment claims that on quote December third, twenty twenty five, 1:10:59.520 --> 1:11:03.559 defended an page using an encrypted messaging application, asked the 1:11:03.680 --> 1:11:07.280 confidential human source if the human source was interested in 1:11:07.360 --> 1:11:12.440 receiving firearms training. Explaining his plan to shoot ICE officials 1:11:13.000 --> 1:11:16.280 in a voice message to the Confidential Human source, defendant 1:11:16.280 --> 1:11:20.280 Page stated quote, I just had this day dream. I 1:11:20.400 --> 1:11:23.639 was like, we're just patrolling or whatever, and we're strapped 1:11:23.720 --> 1:11:26.320 right and we see ICE trying to pull up on 1:11:26.360 --> 1:11:28.840 someone or a group of people, and we just like 1:11:29.200 --> 1:11:31.880 roll up on them, like strapped up, and we're like, nah, 1:11:32.000 --> 1:11:34.400 get the fuck out of here. They're gonna get shot 1:11:34.400 --> 1:11:37.000 if they try to do anything like, we shoot first, 1:11:37.120 --> 1:11:40.680 we ask questions later. That's the policy. I told that 1:11:40.800 --> 1:11:45.320 too in Brackets Defendant Carol. Defendant Carol knows all about this, 1:11:45.560 --> 1:11:48.840 and Brackets Defending Carol was like, yeah, let's fucking do it. 1:11:49.600 --> 1:11:53.360 But I'm like, seriously, that is what's needed. Maybe if 1:11:53.400 --> 1:11:55.479 ICE agents they're like, wait, I don't want to get 1:11:55.479 --> 1:11:58.120 fucking shot right now, they ain't gonna do it. And 1:11:58.200 --> 1:12:00.519 if they still try to do it, well, well guess what. 1:12:00.840 --> 1:12:02.240 Welcome to the dirt, motherfucker. 1:12:02.560 --> 1:12:03.760 Unquote. 1:12:03.800 --> 1:12:08.920 After sending this voice message, Page told the Confidential Human source, quote, 1:12:09.160 --> 1:12:11.280 let me know when you listen. So I can delete 1:12:11.320 --> 1:12:14.519 it unquote. Small lines like that are part of what 1:12:14.600 --> 1:12:18.160 I find really interesting in this Turtle Island Liberation front case, 1:12:18.479 --> 1:12:22.080 because the indictment and criminal complaint are just full of 1:12:22.240 --> 1:12:27.080 the defendants recommending these security folklore practices like setting up 1:12:27.120 --> 1:12:30.160 your phone to stream a long movie to create an alibi, 1:12:30.200 --> 1:12:33.439 and placing a small pebble in your shoe to alter 1:12:33.560 --> 1:12:37.960 your gait, deleting these messages after you send them, which 1:12:38.040 --> 1:12:41.960 they're trying to do, all while working with not just 1:12:42.000 --> 1:12:47.559 an FBI informant but also an undercover agent. During the 1:12:47.560 --> 1:12:52.040 December seventh in person meeting, Page and Carol discussed plans 1:12:52.040 --> 1:12:56.000 for future attacks after this New Year's Eve bombing plot, 1:12:56.479 --> 1:12:59.840 specifically a plan to target ICE agents and vehicles with 1:13:00.080 --> 1:13:04.479 hype bombs starting around January or February twenty twenty six, 1:13:04.960 --> 1:13:08.400 with Carol noting in the meeting quote that would definitely 1:13:08.439 --> 1:13:11.040 take some of them out and would probably scare the 1:13:11.080 --> 1:13:16.640 rest of them unquote. Now, following this meeting, more co conspirators, 1:13:16.640 --> 1:13:20.960 including an undercover FBI employee, were added to the signal 1:13:21.000 --> 1:13:25.320 group chat called the Order of the Black Lotus, which 1:13:25.400 --> 1:13:29.439 Carol described as the radical faction of the Turtle Island 1:13:29.439 --> 1:13:35.040 Liberation Front and which Page described as quote unquote super underground. 1:13:35.840 --> 1:13:39.919 The indictment contains some alleged messages sent to an encrypted 1:13:39.960 --> 1:13:43.800 group chat. It's unclear this is specifically the Order of 1:13:43.840 --> 1:13:47.320 the Black Lotus chat or another Turtle Island Liberation Front 1:13:47.439 --> 1:13:51.120 related chat, but I will read through some of these messages. 1:13:51.200 --> 1:13:51.639 Quote. 1:13:52.120 --> 1:13:57.200 Page messaged co conspirators, including defendants Carol and Garfield quote 1:13:57.479 --> 1:14:01.200 death to Israel, death to the USA, death to colonizers, 1:14:01.520 --> 1:14:06.400 death to settler colonialism. In response to defendant Pages message, 1:14:06.439 --> 1:14:10.160 defendant Carol stated, quote death to them all, burn it 1:14:10.200 --> 1:14:14.959 all down, three burning heart emojis unquote. Defendant Carol messaged 1:14:15.040 --> 1:14:20.080 co conspirators, including Page and Garfield, quote I identify as 1:14:20.160 --> 1:14:24.520 a terrorist and I am a Hamas fangirl. 1:14:24.760 --> 1:14:26.120 Unquote. 1:14:26.240 --> 1:14:30.760 Garfield messaged co conspirators, including Carol and Paige, quote I 1:14:30.800 --> 1:14:34.599 am here to destroy Zionism by any means necessary. Real 1:14:34.640 --> 1:14:39.120 activism equals destroying Zionism by any means necessary, even if 1:14:39.160 --> 1:14:42.200 it's risky. If you aren't willing to die for or 1:14:42.360 --> 1:14:45.560 lose your freedom, then you're just another toy in the machine. 1:14:45.600 --> 1:14:46.840 Unquote. 1:14:46.920 --> 1:14:50.719 Carol messaged. Quote glory to the martyr's death to Israel 1:14:51.200 --> 1:14:56.920 three salute emojis, and on December third, defendant Carol told 1:14:56.920 --> 1:15:00.759 the confidential human source quote, these fucking SJA you peaceful 1:15:00.800 --> 1:15:04.000 protest libs are insane, Like it's wild to me that 1:15:04.040 --> 1:15:06.840 I've seen state violence enacted on some people like that 1:15:07.280 --> 1:15:09.839 and they still think they can keep going with peaceful 1:15:09.880 --> 1:15:15.960 protest bs and indirect roots unquote. Defendants used the BLACKLOADUS 1:15:15.960 --> 1:15:19.559 group chat what Carol described as quote our group for 1:15:19.720 --> 1:15:24.759 everything radical unquote, to discuss sourcing bomb making parts including 1:15:24.800 --> 1:15:27.880 cotton string and PVC pipes, as well as coordinates for 1:15:27.960 --> 1:15:31.760 the explosives testing site in the desert quote where we 1:15:31.800 --> 1:15:35.400 will set up camp and where we will test unquote. 1:15:35.439 --> 1:15:39.000 On the afternoon of December tenth, Page messaged the group 1:15:39.080 --> 1:15:42.880 about just having acquired two parts for the bomb recipe 1:15:43.200 --> 1:15:46.080 and that starter would be picked up later that day. 1:15:46.880 --> 1:15:51.040 Page was under FBI surveillance around the time this message 1:15:51.080 --> 1:15:54.559 was sent, and fifteen minutes prior to sending this message, 1:15:54.840 --> 1:15:58.599 Page was seen grabbing a package from an Amazon pickup location. 1:15:59.360 --> 1:16:03.680 Hours later, FBI agent's watched Page by pistol primers from 1:16:03.720 --> 1:16:07.960 a store in Irving, California. Quote dressed in a manner 1:16:08.040 --> 1:16:13.000 to obscure pages identity, namely wearing a medical mask, gloves, 1:16:13.479 --> 1:16:17.840 ball cap, and longsleeve shirt. To quote the criminal complaint, 1:16:18.439 --> 1:16:21.920 Carol replied to Page's messages about obtaining more items from 1:16:21.960 --> 1:16:26.120 the ingredient's list, writing that another package was quote already delivered, 1:16:26.280 --> 1:16:29.719 got to pick it up tomorrow, but yay with four 1:16:29.760 --> 1:16:33.880 whys unquote. The criminal complaint says that quote. According to 1:16:33.920 --> 1:16:37.599 Amazon records, on December seventh, twenty twenty five, Carol purchased 1:16:37.600 --> 1:16:40.799 two five pound bags of potassium nitrate ninety nine percent 1:16:41.080 --> 1:16:46.519 pure prilled Kno three five pounds for industrial and technical 1:16:46.520 --> 1:16:49.840 applications to be delivered to the Amazon counter at the 1:16:49.880 --> 1:16:53.080 Whole Foods located at three three seven seven South La 1:16:53.160 --> 1:16:58.320 Sienna Boulevard, Los Angeles, California. The potassium nitrate was delivered 1:16:58.439 --> 1:17:01.200 on December eleventh, twenty twenty five. 1:17:01.600 --> 1:17:02.160 Unquote. 1:17:03.320 --> 1:17:07.280 In early December, Carol messaged the confidential human source on 1:17:07.400 --> 1:17:11.360 signal a list of components chemicals and tools, along with 1:17:11.439 --> 1:17:15.519 prices of the required items. Several of these components were 1:17:15.560 --> 1:17:19.360 either listed as already purchased or designated to be acquired 1:17:19.360 --> 1:17:23.360 by another quote unquote Comrade Carol advised the confidential human 1:17:23.400 --> 1:17:25.960 source quote with the list, write it and down when 1:17:26.000 --> 1:17:28.800 you have some time, then I'll delete that message, so 1:17:28.920 --> 1:17:30.760 it's no in the chat, a'll well. 1:17:31.120 --> 1:17:31.439 Quote. 1:17:32.120 --> 1:17:35.080 Carol also told the confidential Human source that they should 1:17:35.120 --> 1:17:38.679 get some burner phones quote unquote bought with cash only 1:17:39.760 --> 1:17:42.639 for the bomb testing camp out in the desert. Page 1:17:42.640 --> 1:17:45.559 instructed the group to only bring two burner phones to 1:17:45.680 --> 1:17:48.240 use in case of emergencies and for directions on the 1:17:48.240 --> 1:17:51.719 way out to quote the complaint quote. Once everyone arrived, 1:17:51.720 --> 1:17:54.320 their phones would be put in a small cardboard box 1:17:54.360 --> 1:17:57.080 completely sealed with aluminum. The phones would not be returned 1:17:57.160 --> 1:17:59.720 until the caravan was out of the campsite and back 1:17:59.760 --> 1:18:03.360 on the main road. Quote forgetting to the desert, Page 1:18:03.400 --> 1:18:07.160 wrote that each navigator should have a burner phone, quoting 1:18:07.280 --> 1:18:10.559 page in the complaint quote no phones besides burners, and 1:18:10.600 --> 1:18:13.600 all phones except navigators to be wrapped in foil or 1:18:13.640 --> 1:18:16.640 a Faraday bag for the entirety of the trip and 1:18:16.800 --> 1:18:20.640 install OSM. And it is an open source maps, so 1:18:20.840 --> 1:18:25.559 no corporate tracking unquote. Garfield wrote, quote, I have a 1:18:25.560 --> 1:18:28.880 few burners, but I'm saving for the big event, the 1:18:28.960 --> 1:18:35.280 big party, celebrate emoji quote. On December tenth, Carol sent 1:18:35.360 --> 1:18:38.919 the Confidential Human Source a message on signal, reading quote, 1:18:39.280 --> 1:18:41.679 I kind of hand this notebook where I wrote down 1:18:41.800 --> 1:18:45.720 multiple plans that never happened or got delayed, so it's 1:18:45.800 --> 1:18:51.679 like my terrorist diary. Lmaoooo. I have to get rid 1:18:51.680 --> 1:19:06.160 of that unquote. On the morning of December twelfth, twenty 1:19:06.280 --> 1:19:10.519 twenty five, Carol, Page, Garfield, and Lye traveled to the 1:19:10.680 --> 1:19:14.439 desert in two vehicles, the Confidential Human Source in one 1:19:14.520 --> 1:19:18.160 car and the undercover in the other. To quote from 1:19:18.240 --> 1:19:22.479 the complaint quote. In the undercover vehicle, Page discussed using 1:19:22.560 --> 1:19:25.679 cigarettes as a delayed fusing device for the explosives. Once 1:19:25.680 --> 1:19:28.679 they arrived in the desert, in the other vehicle, Carol 1:19:28.840 --> 1:19:31.599 explained to Lie that the day's events were meant as 1:19:31.640 --> 1:19:34.120 a test run for the New Year's Eve bombing plot, 1:19:34.320 --> 1:19:37.639 which Carol described in detail, stating, quote, what we're doing 1:19:37.920 --> 1:19:42.720 will be considered a terrorist act unquote. In response to 1:19:42.920 --> 1:19:46.400 Carroll's detailing of the New Year's Eve plot, Lie asked 1:19:46.439 --> 1:19:49.720 if there would be any people at the bombing target locations. 1:19:50.280 --> 1:19:53.559 Carol responded in the negative, but noted that if they 1:19:53.600 --> 1:19:56.479 saw any people such as a security guard at any 1:19:56.520 --> 1:20:00.000 of the locations they would warn them. At approximately ten 1:20:00.000 --> 1:20:02.120 one am, the co conspirators arrived at the desert and 1:20:02.160 --> 1:20:05.639 began setting up a campsite including tents and tables based 1:20:05.640 --> 1:20:09.200 on information from the undercover and confidential human source. Carol 1:20:09.400 --> 1:20:13.680 Page and lie All brought bomb making components to the campsite, 1:20:13.720 --> 1:20:19.439 including various sizes of PVC pipes, suspected potassium nitrate, charcoal, 1:20:19.600 --> 1:20:23.599 charcoal powder, sulfur powder, and material to be used as fuses, 1:20:23.680 --> 1:20:27.640 among others. After the undercover alerted law enforcement with a 1:20:27.680 --> 1:20:31.799 predetermined signal indicating that bomb testing was imminent, FBI personnel 1:20:31.800 --> 1:20:35.960 intervened and placed Carol Paige, Garfield, and Lye into custody. 1:20:37.400 --> 1:20:40.400 This is a clip from the law enforcement press conference 1:20:40.439 --> 1:20:44.240 announcing the arrests with a Keel Davis, Assistant Director in 1:20:44.360 --> 1:20:47.920 charge of the FBI Los Angeles Field Office. 1:20:48.360 --> 1:20:51.439 On December twelfth, a group of individuals, again members of 1:20:51.479 --> 1:20:56.639 this antigovernment group, traveled out to the desert to test 1:20:56.720 --> 1:21:01.160 their explosive devices. They had precursor can mmicals there and 1:21:01.240 --> 1:21:04.799 they were going to make They were going to create 1:21:04.840 --> 1:21:07.880 these these bombs in the desert. What they are starting 1:21:07.920 --> 1:21:10.479 to do is put their chemicals and wares and the 1:21:10.560 --> 1:21:14.200 components out on the on the table on the table there. 1:21:14.760 --> 1:21:18.240 This footage that you're watching is from our surveillance plane. 1:21:18.560 --> 1:21:22.440 And then what happened after this is the Los Angeles 1:21:22.520 --> 1:21:26.160 FBI SWAT team, along with the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team 1:21:26.479 --> 1:21:29.799 moved in and arrested all four subjects without without incident. 1:21:31.120 --> 1:21:34.200 The criminal complaint notes at the end that quote based 1:21:34.240 --> 1:21:38.120 on conversations with the bomb technician. While no quote unquote 1:21:38.200 --> 1:21:41.280 end caps were found at the campsite, the co conspirators 1:21:41.320 --> 1:21:44.960 could have improvised using other material to plug the end 1:21:45.040 --> 1:21:48.559 of the PBC pipe, though such method would have been 1:21:48.640 --> 1:21:52.519 less effective than using a proper end cap. As noted above, 1:21:52.760 --> 1:21:57.360 there were also sufficient parts to create several molotov cocktail 1:21:57.400 --> 1:22:03.200 devices quote. After the arrests, law enforcement also raided the 1:22:03.200 --> 1:22:07.559 homes of the Turtle Island Liberation Front members. In Page's residence, 1:22:07.640 --> 1:22:11.440 police found a copy of the handwritten attack plan Operation 1:22:11.680 --> 1:22:17.360 Midnight Sun. That same day, December twelfth, another Turtle Island 1:22:17.360 --> 1:22:21.520 Liberation Front related arrest was made all the way in Louisiana. 1:22:22.240 --> 1:22:25.040 A former marine who was member of the Order of 1:22:25.080 --> 1:22:28.439 the Black Lotus Signal group under the name Darkwitch. She 1:22:28.600 --> 1:22:31.160 her who was also planning to instruct the group on 1:22:31.240 --> 1:22:37.200 quote urban tactics, accuracy, and combat shooting. She was arrested 1:22:37.240 --> 1:22:41.680 while driving from New Iberia to New Orleans with a rifle, handgun, 1:22:41.720 --> 1:22:45.600 gas canister, and body armour. The FBI believes that she 1:22:45.720 --> 1:22:48.280 was going to carry out an attack based on a 1:22:48.320 --> 1:22:51.680 Facebook post commenting on a border patrol rest in New 1:22:51.840 --> 1:22:56.720 Orleans captioned quote shit time to recreate Waco, Texas with 1:22:56.800 --> 1:23:01.600 these fuckers thuck Ice unquote. Three of the defendants in 1:23:01.720 --> 1:23:06.040 the Los Angeles case, Paige, Carol and Lai, have pled 1:23:06.120 --> 1:23:09.519 not guilty. Garfield is set to be arraigned the day 1:23:09.520 --> 1:23:13.280 that I'm recording this, and the Turtle Island Liberation Front 1:23:13.400 --> 1:23:27.960 trial is currently scheduled for the end of February. 1:23:29.040 --> 1:23:33.160 Welcome to It Could Happen? Here a podcast about which 1:23:33.240 --> 1:23:38.000 calamity this country and many others are going through. This week, 1:23:38.160 --> 1:23:42.599 I am your host, Mia Wong, and today we are 1:23:42.640 --> 1:23:47.800 going to be talking about the Federal Reserve. Now, those 1:23:47.840 --> 1:23:51.040 of you who have listened to Executive Disorder are aware 1:23:51.240 --> 1:23:54.719 that a bit over a week ago, as this episode 1:23:54.760 --> 1:24:00.240 is being released. Federal Reserve Chairman Jiromage Powell released what 1:24:00.960 --> 1:24:06.960 again I can really only describe as someone escaping from 1:24:06.960 --> 1:24:10.920 a kidnapping and releasing a video about it in which 1:24:11.240 --> 1:24:17.200 he discussed a Justice Department grand jury subpoena and a 1:24:17.360 --> 1:24:22.240 threat to indict him over cost overruns on a new 1:24:22.320 --> 1:24:28.280 Federal Reserve building. Now, Jerome Powell has claimed that these 1:24:29.520 --> 1:24:34.280 charges are really about removing him and about eliminating the 1:24:35.320 --> 1:24:39.040 independence of the Federal Reserve. He also claims that he 1:24:39.320 --> 1:24:45.639 was directly threatened with these charges unless he was willing 1:24:45.720 --> 1:24:50.719 to adjust the Federal Reserve policy to fall in line 1:24:50.960 --> 1:24:58.439 with the Trump administration. And this is an astonishing video 1:24:58.680 --> 1:25:02.640 for a number of reasons. One is that it's, in 1:25:02.840 --> 1:25:06.439 a lot of ways one of the most direct points 1:25:06.479 --> 1:25:10.800 of defiance that a government official has taken directly to 1:25:11.280 --> 1:25:18.440 the presidents. It's also astonishing because it is actually technically 1:25:18.920 --> 1:25:22.360 the second time that Trump has tried to do something 1:25:22.400 --> 1:25:25.040 like this to a member of the Federal Reserve Board. 1:25:25.800 --> 1:25:29.679 Because as you're listening to this, the Supreme Court has 1:25:29.720 --> 1:25:35.160 been hearing arguments about Trump's attempt to fire one of 1:25:35.200 --> 1:25:38.040 the other members of the Federal Reserve Board, a woman 1:25:38.120 --> 1:25:43.040 named Lisa Cook. Now, obviously I don't know yet what 1:25:43.200 --> 1:25:47.160 the outcome of that deliberation is going to be. It 1:25:47.280 --> 1:25:53.160 seems right now that the Supreme Court is uncompelled with 1:25:53.280 --> 1:25:57.920 Trump's ability to fire a Federal Reserve board member over 1:25:58.840 --> 1:26:04.400 really truly very trumped up charges about mortgage fraud. I'm 1:26:04.439 --> 1:26:08.479 going to quote here from the Supreme Court in what 1:26:08.560 --> 1:26:13.080 has become a very important statement. Quote, the Federal Reserve 1:26:13.280 --> 1:26:17.360 is a uniquely structured, quasi private entity that follows in 1:26:17.400 --> 1:26:20.080 the distinct tradition of the First and Second Banks of 1:26:20.120 --> 1:26:24.160 the United States. The importance of this statement is that 1:26:24.200 --> 1:26:27.160 the Supreme Court has been willing to allow Trump to 1:26:27.240 --> 1:26:30.559 fire the heads of other you know, what are supposed 1:26:30.600 --> 1:26:33.040 to be independent entities, right, or fire members of what 1:26:33.080 --> 1:26:37.080 are supposed to be independent federal agencies. He's been able 1:26:37.120 --> 1:26:39.320 to just completely illegally, by the way, but with the 1:26:39.320 --> 1:26:42.599 approval the Supreme Court, been able to fire a lot 1:26:42.760 --> 1:26:46.080 of people who were appointed under the Biden administration to 1:26:47.520 --> 1:26:53.040 posts in independent regulatory agencies. However, so far, the Supreme 1:26:53.120 --> 1:26:58.360 Court has balked at doing this for the Federal Reserve. Now, 1:26:58.520 --> 1:27:02.960 why is that and why is this entire thing so 1:27:03.040 --> 1:27:06.840 important to understand that question and to understand why I've 1:27:06.880 --> 1:27:10.800 spent so much time talking about what in the grand 1:27:10.800 --> 1:27:15.000 scheme of things seems like a kind of minor, you know, 1:27:15.240 --> 1:27:18.880 just like another example of Trump attempting to use the 1:27:18.960 --> 1:27:24.160 judiciary and investigations to go after as political enemies. We 1:27:24.840 --> 1:27:28.400 need to talk about what the Federal Reserve is and 1:27:28.479 --> 1:27:34.720 what it does, because this is our guably the central 1:27:34.800 --> 1:27:41.559 institution of global capitalism, and its importance in maintaining the 1:27:41.560 --> 1:27:47.120 global capitalist economy is to a large extent, the reason 1:27:47.360 --> 1:27:53.040 why this is the point at which US senators, who 1:27:53.040 --> 1:27:56.480 are aligned with Trump on every other issue have actively 1:27:56.560 --> 1:28:01.200 taken a stand against this sort of prosecut of Jerome Powell. 1:28:01.240 --> 1:28:05.559 It's why the Supreme Court seems to not be interested 1:28:05.600 --> 1:28:08.479 in allowing Trump to wield the executive power. And this 1:28:08.640 --> 1:28:11.680 is because fucking with the Federal Reserve is fucking with 1:28:11.760 --> 1:28:17.719 the money. So what is the Federal Reserve? The Federal Reserve, 1:28:18.280 --> 1:28:22.960 to put it mildly, is an extremely confusing entity. So 1:28:23.680 --> 1:28:26.960 if you remember back to a few minutes ago when 1:28:27.000 --> 1:28:31.240 I said that the Supreme Court said that the Federal 1:28:31.280 --> 1:28:36.280 Reserve is a uniquely structured, quasi private entity, we can 1:28:36.360 --> 1:28:39.200 ask the question. Okay, so it's a quasi private entity. 1:28:39.479 --> 1:28:41.880 Is it a public entity or is it a private entity? 1:28:42.560 --> 1:28:45.320 This is a relatively simple question. Here is the answer 1:28:45.360 --> 1:28:50.120 provided by the Saint Louis Federal Reserve's website quote. The 1:28:50.160 --> 1:28:53.759 Federal Reserve Banks are not a part of the federal government, 1:28:53.760 --> 1:28:56.960 but they exist because of an Act of Congress. Their 1:28:56.960 --> 1:29:00.400 purpose is to serve the public. So is the Fed 1:29:00.720 --> 1:29:05.920 private or public? The answer is both. While the Board 1:29:05.960 --> 1:29:09.960 of Governors is an independent government agency, the Federal Reserve 1:29:10.040 --> 1:29:14.800 Banks are set up like private corporations. Member banks hold 1:29:14.920 --> 1:29:19.080 stock in the Federal Reserve and earn dividends. Holding this 1:29:19.200 --> 1:29:22.800 stock does not carry with it the control and financial 1:29:22.840 --> 1:29:27.520 interests given to holders of common stock and for profit organizations. 1:29:27.880 --> 1:29:32.360 The stock may not be sold or pleasures collateral for loans. Okay, 1:29:33.040 --> 1:29:36.040 so here's the Federal Reserve's answer to is it a 1:29:36.080 --> 1:29:40.000 public or private entity? Is both? The Board of Governors 1:29:40.040 --> 1:29:42.240 is an independent agency. The Federal Reserve Banks are set 1:29:42.320 --> 1:29:45.320 up like private corporations. So it's sort of both. Okay, 1:29:45.479 --> 1:29:49.320 question settled, it's both. We can move on. Wait, hold on, 1:29:49.520 --> 1:29:53.639 I am receiving word that the Federal Reserve has comments 1:29:53.680 --> 1:29:56.760 on this idea. Hold on, hold on, let me, let me. 1:29:56.880 --> 1:30:02.800 Let me turn to the Federal Reserve, the Federal Reserve's website, 1:30:03.160 --> 1:30:06.479 which has a comment on the idea that the Federal 1:30:06.600 --> 1:30:11.040 Reserve banks or private entities. Okay, here we go, here 1:30:11.080 --> 1:30:16.360 we go quoting them. Now, some observers mistakenly consider the 1:30:16.360 --> 1:30:20.240 Federal Reserve to be a private entity because the Reserve 1:30:20.320 --> 1:30:25.559 banks are organized similar to private corporations. For instance, each 1:30:25.600 --> 1:30:28.679 of the twelve Reserve banks operates within its own particular 1:30:28.720 --> 1:30:32.320 geographic area or district of the United States, and each 1:30:32.439 --> 1:30:35.800 is incorporated, is separately incorporated and has its own board 1:30:35.800 --> 1:30:40.240 of directors. Commercial banks that are members of the Federal 1:30:40.280 --> 1:30:45.120 Reserve system hold stock in their district's reserve bank. Now, okay, 1:30:45.600 --> 1:30:48.120 let's look at what we have here. These are two 1:30:48.200 --> 1:30:53.679 different websites run by two different parts of the Federal Reserve, 1:30:54.560 --> 1:30:58.479 one of which says that the Federal Reserve Banks are 1:30:58.479 --> 1:31:00.880 not part of the of the federal government, but they 1:31:00.880 --> 1:31:03.320 exist because of an Act of Congress. So is the 1:31:03.320 --> 1:31:06.800 Fed public or private? The answer is both, because the 1:31:06.800 --> 1:31:09.840 Federal Reserve Banks are set up like private corporations. That's 1:31:09.960 --> 1:31:14.320 the Saint Louis at are Reserve. Now the National Federal Reserve, 1:31:14.800 --> 1:31:18.519 says quote, some observers mistakenly considered the Federal Reserve to 1:31:18.560 --> 1:31:21.000 be a private entity because the reserve banks are organized 1:31:21.000 --> 1:31:24.479 similarly to private corporations. So you can see that we 1:31:24.520 --> 1:31:29.160 are dealing here with an absolute goddamn mess because if 1:31:29.160 --> 1:31:33.720 you read the two websites of different federal versions of 1:31:33.760 --> 1:31:36.680 the Federal Reserve, National and sort of branches of the 1:31:36.680 --> 1:31:41.120 Federal Reserve, they say different things about what it is, 1:31:41.280 --> 1:31:44.759 and they sound like they're arguing each other. Now, Okay, 1:31:44.840 --> 1:31:48.800 I am doing this because it's funny. Technically both of 1:31:48.800 --> 1:31:50.800 these agree with each other. But this is a shit 1:31:50.840 --> 1:31:55.479 show because part of the purpose of the Federal Reserve 1:31:56.120 --> 1:31:58.679 is to be an entity that does research and distribute 1:31:58.720 --> 1:32:02.080 information to the public, and its websites can't agree on 1:32:02.120 --> 1:32:05.280 what it is. Now again, I'm being slightly pedantic here. 1:32:05.360 --> 1:32:08.559 Technically both versions of this story do you say that 1:32:08.760 --> 1:32:12.040 this is both a public and a private entity? Sort of? 1:32:12.880 --> 1:32:16.040 Now again, And this is a basic question about the 1:32:16.040 --> 1:32:19.960 Federal Reserve. Is it a public or private entity? And 1:32:20.840 --> 1:32:23.559 they can't agree on it. And this is, to use 1:32:23.600 --> 1:32:27.439 a technical term, a fucking nightmare, because again, the actual 1:32:27.479 --> 1:32:30.599 answer is that it is sort of both. The banks 1:32:30.600 --> 1:32:34.400 themselves are like technically private, but they're run by the 1:32:34.400 --> 1:32:37.400 Board of Governors, which is technically a government agency, and 1:32:37.439 --> 1:32:41.599 they were established by the government. So tending to sort 1:32:41.640 --> 1:32:46.479 out this colossal mess has inside of academia, this has 1:32:46.640 --> 1:32:49.799 caused a change in the conception of what the state 1:32:50.040 --> 1:32:55.679 is because what is this crap? So okay, let's actually 1:32:55.800 --> 1:33:01.080 run through the structure of the Federal Reserve. So importantly, 1:33:01.120 --> 1:33:06.800 the Federal Reserve is kind of three entities in a way. 1:33:06.840 --> 1:33:09.400 You can think about this like the Holy Trinity. Right. 1:33:10.000 --> 1:33:13.879 You have the twelve Federal Reserve banks, and those banks 1:33:13.960 --> 1:33:18.479 are collectively managed by what are called governors, who serve 1:33:18.560 --> 1:33:21.040 on what is called the Board of Governors, which is 1:33:21.360 --> 1:33:25.120 the second entity. And then there's also the Federal Open 1:33:25.160 --> 1:33:29.240 Market Committee, which for our purposes we don't care about 1:33:29.280 --> 1:33:32.560 that much, but is composed of the seven members of 1:33:32.600 --> 1:33:34.719 the Board of Governors, and this is the quote defend itself. 1:33:35.560 --> 1:33:37.960 Is composed of the seven members of the Bord of Governors, 1:33:38.000 --> 1:33:40.000 the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, 1:33:40.040 --> 1:33:42.600 and four of the remaining eleven Reserve Bank presidents. You 1:33:42.680 --> 1:33:46.120 serve one year terms on a rotating basis. So, okay, 1:33:46.240 --> 1:33:50.799 we have three entities, right. We have the centralized Federal 1:33:50.880 --> 1:33:54.160 Reserve banks, which there's twelve of them. They cover different 1:33:54.200 --> 1:33:57.760 geographic regions of the country. We have the Board of Governors, 1:33:57.920 --> 1:34:01.040 which oversees them. And the Board of Governors is the 1:34:01.080 --> 1:34:05.120 part that is technically a government agency. And these governors 1:34:05.680 --> 1:34:10.559 are importantly, for our purposes, nominated by the President and 1:34:10.800 --> 1:34:15.000 confirmed by Congress. And this Board of Governors. The purpose 1:34:15.040 --> 1:34:18.799 of this Board of Governors is to sort of run 1:34:19.280 --> 1:34:22.160 all of it. Now they're running all of this at 1:34:22.160 --> 1:34:25.840 a macro level. Each of those twelve federal reserve banks 1:34:25.880 --> 1:34:28.400 also have their own border directors and their own structures 1:34:28.439 --> 1:34:31.800 that each run all of the different banks. So this 1:34:31.880 --> 1:34:37.280 is complicated. And again why talking about the Federal Reserve 1:34:37.400 --> 1:34:40.479 is so complicated. If you just like start looking at 1:34:40.640 --> 1:34:43.400 political stuff people have written about the Federal Reserve, it's 1:34:43.400 --> 1:34:46.439 a nightmare. Like if you try to like do your 1:34:46.479 --> 1:34:49.400 own research, your options are, I'll less you know where 1:34:49.439 --> 1:34:52.080 to look, right, your options are at the Federal Reserve itself, 1:34:52.120 --> 1:34:58.080 which is actually not a terrible resource for the most part, 1:34:58.160 --> 1:35:03.799 because again, conducting economic research is one of the points 1:35:03.880 --> 1:35:08.840 of the Federal Reserve, but it's not ideal. And then 1:35:08.960 --> 1:35:11.719 also immediately you get a bunch of very weird, anti 1:35:11.720 --> 1:35:17.479 Semitic conspiracy theories about sound money and the sort of 1:35:17.720 --> 1:35:21.479 Rand Paull people who want to eliminate the Federal Reserve 1:35:21.720 --> 1:35:24.960 because they're mad at the US dollar not being based 1:35:24.960 --> 1:35:31.440 on gold. Nightmare, terrible, zero out of ten. We absolutely 1:35:31.439 --> 1:35:34.760 hate it. Now, speaking of things that we absolutely hate, 1:35:34.800 --> 1:35:51.200 it is not buying these products and services. We are back. 1:35:51.880 --> 1:35:54.559 So all right, we've gone over the structure of the 1:35:54.600 --> 1:35:58.360 Federal Reserve. So what does the Federal Reserve actually do? 1:35:58.560 --> 1:36:01.800 And why are we talking about this at such length. 1:36:02.760 --> 1:36:05.599 If you know one thing about the FED, it's that 1:36:05.640 --> 1:36:08.320 the FED can print money. You may or may not 1:36:08.400 --> 1:36:13.400 remember the FED printing money memes from twenty twenty in 1:36:13.439 --> 1:36:16.640 that sort of era, and this is one of the 1:36:16.680 --> 1:36:20.080 conceptions of the FED that is true. The Federal Reserve 1:36:20.320 --> 1:36:23.200 is the entity given power by the US government to 1:36:23.320 --> 1:36:29.120 print money. So when dollar bills are created, the Treasury 1:36:29.160 --> 1:36:33.439 commissions the FED to print the bills. Technically speaking, coins 1:36:33.439 --> 1:36:37.120 are still minted by the Treasury, which is a whole 1:36:37.600 --> 1:36:39.880 side showed tangent that I had to cut out of 1:36:39.880 --> 1:36:43.479 the story because it's like twenty minutes long. But you know, 1:36:43.600 --> 1:36:46.759 if you are holding a US dollar, basically the odds 1:36:46.840 --> 1:36:50.200 are very very very very very very very very good. 1:36:50.360 --> 1:36:53.439 The way you were holding is technically a Federal Reserve note. 1:36:54.120 --> 1:36:56.800 Now what does that mean? Be a what is happening here? 1:36:56.960 --> 1:36:59.200 Why is it the government doesn't print money? Why is 1:36:59.240 --> 1:37:03.759 it this quas I private public entity that's printing the money. Now, 1:37:04.160 --> 1:37:09.120 what's happening here is slightly more complex than FED money printer. 1:37:10.040 --> 1:37:15.120 An American dollar is US debt. Right, what you are 1:37:15.120 --> 1:37:19.599 holding in your hands is a promise from the US 1:37:19.680 --> 1:37:23.040 government to pay one dollar to the Federal Reserve. The 1:37:23.040 --> 1:37:27.000 Federal Reserve is having this money distributed and is having 1:37:27.040 --> 1:37:29.880 this debt distributed. And this is what US currency is. 1:37:30.479 --> 1:37:34.599 It is based on debt held by in this case, 1:37:34.600 --> 1:37:37.760 the Federal Reserve banks, which have been given a monopoly 1:37:37.840 --> 1:37:41.439 to print this debt as Federal Reserve notes, and the 1:37:41.479 --> 1:37:44.439 Federal Reserve can just sort of create this. It's also 1:37:44.479 --> 1:37:45.920 worth noting that, you know, when we talk about the 1:37:45.920 --> 1:37:49.080 FED creating money, I mean obviously like it prints money 1:37:49.240 --> 1:37:51.080 for stuff commissioned by the treasury, so you can have 1:37:51.120 --> 1:37:54.799 more bills in circulation, But most of the actual money 1:37:54.840 --> 1:37:58.040 that's being created or not created is you know, this 1:37:58.080 --> 1:38:02.040 is all happening digitally. It is funds appearing in the 1:38:02.080 --> 1:38:05.200 bank accounts of the banks that use the Federal Reserve. 1:38:05.920 --> 1:38:10.439 So the other thing you may have heard about the 1:38:10.479 --> 1:38:13.840 FED is the FED funds rate or what's called the 1:38:13.840 --> 1:38:16.639 FED interest rate, or you'll hear a bunch of talk 1:38:16.680 --> 1:38:20.280 about the FED setting interest rates. So to understand what 1:38:20.360 --> 1:38:22.679 this is, we need to kind of take a step 1:38:22.720 --> 1:38:27.760 back and look at what these banks actually are. The 1:38:27.800 --> 1:38:30.519 way this is commonly described is that the FED is 1:38:30.560 --> 1:38:33.120 the bank of banks, right, which is when a bank 1:38:33.280 --> 1:38:35.920 needs alone, they go to the Federal Reserve, and banks 1:38:35.960 --> 1:38:38.479 put their money in the Federal Reserve and they use 1:38:38.520 --> 1:38:42.519 it to move their money around. That's true enough for 1:38:42.600 --> 1:38:45.439 our purposes. I should also state here that a lot 1:38:45.520 --> 1:38:48.000 of what I'm going to be saying this episode, particularly 1:38:48.040 --> 1:38:54.559 from here forward, is technically probably a simplification of what's 1:38:54.600 --> 1:39:00.400 actually happening, because the mechanisms here are very very compt located. 1:39:01.240 --> 1:39:05.000 But okay, so the FED interest rate, right, this is 1:39:05.040 --> 1:39:07.720 the thing that is the source of all of the 1:39:07.800 --> 1:39:12.160 tension here, right. What Trump is pissed about to a 1:39:12.240 --> 1:39:15.160 large extent is that he thinks that FED interest rates 1:39:15.200 --> 1:39:18.240 are too high and he wants them to be lower 1:39:18.320 --> 1:39:22.719 because he thinks this will cause the economy to grow more. So, okay, 1:39:22.800 --> 1:39:25.439 what does that mean is what is the FED interest rate? 1:39:26.200 --> 1:39:28.720 The way this is explained to the public is that 1:39:28.760 --> 1:39:32.840 the FED sets the cost of borrowing. That's like true, 1:39:33.320 --> 1:39:37.120 kind of. Basically, there is a rate that is decided 1:39:37.160 --> 1:39:41.160 on by the Federal Reserve Board. On a more technical level, though, 1:39:41.720 --> 1:39:45.639 it's slightly more complicated than that. So when you hear 1:39:45.680 --> 1:39:49.680 someone talk about the Fed's interest rate, what they are 1:39:49.720 --> 1:39:53.600 talking about is the Federal funds rate, And technically what 1:39:53.640 --> 1:39:57.760 they're talking about is the target Federal funds rate. So 1:39:58.000 --> 1:40:01.120 I'm going to quote from the Federal Reserve self quote. 1:40:01.760 --> 1:40:05.720 The effective Federal funds rate is the interest rate at 1:40:05.720 --> 1:40:12.400 which depository institutions, banks, savings institutions, thrifts, and credit unions, 1:40:12.880 --> 1:40:17.160 and government sponsored enterprises borrow from and lend to each 1:40:17.160 --> 1:40:21.759 other overnight to meet short term business needs. The target 1:40:21.880 --> 1:40:24.720 for the Federal funds rate, which is set by the 1:40:24.760 --> 1:40:28.960 Federal Open Market Committee, has varied widely. Over the years 1:40:29.000 --> 1:40:32.680 in response to prevailing economic conditions. So yeah, Also, by 1:40:32.680 --> 1:40:35.080 the way, it is technically the Federal Open Market Committee 1:40:35.080 --> 1:40:38.960 that sets the fund rate. But okay, when we're talking 1:40:39.040 --> 1:40:45.320 about the FED setting the interest rates, right, there's kind 1:40:45.360 --> 1:40:51.040 of two things going on. So the effective Federal funds rate, 1:40:51.120 --> 1:40:54.080 which is the thing that they're trying to control, is 1:40:54.120 --> 1:40:56.719 the interest rate at which all of these different banks 1:40:56.720 --> 1:40:58.640 that have their money in here are all using it 1:40:58.680 --> 1:41:01.760 to lend to each other overnight. Through the money they 1:41:01.760 --> 1:41:04.280 have the Federal reserve, they're all lending it to each other. 1:41:04.840 --> 1:41:07.559 The average of the rate of interest that whist are 1:41:07.600 --> 1:41:10.679 lending to each other overnight, the average of that rate 1:41:10.800 --> 1:41:12.920 is the federal funds rate. When people talk about like 1:41:12.920 --> 1:41:14.840 the interest rates like three point two percent or whatever. 1:41:15.280 --> 1:41:17.280 What the FED is trying to do is make sure 1:41:17.320 --> 1:41:19.759 that at the end of the night, this effective federal 1:41:19.760 --> 1:41:22.160 funds rate, which is the rate that all these banks 1:41:22.160 --> 1:41:25.000 are lending each other money at, is at that rate. 1:41:25.520 --> 1:41:28.559 But they don't actually technically directly have control of this, 1:41:28.640 --> 1:41:32.280 because it is to be clear, the average rate of 1:41:32.320 --> 1:41:34.240 which all of these banks are lending to each other 1:41:34.720 --> 1:41:39.559 what the FED is manipulating directly usually is the interest 1:41:39.640 --> 1:41:43.840 on reserve balances or IRB. So this is the thing 1:41:43.840 --> 1:41:46.840 the FED does control. The interest on reserve balances is 1:41:46.880 --> 1:41:49.120 how much interest they pay out for just putting your 1:41:49.160 --> 1:41:51.320 money in the FED and leaving it there. I'm going 1:41:51.320 --> 1:41:54.680 to quote the FED again. The Fed's primary tool for 1:41:54.800 --> 1:41:58.200 influencing the Federal funds rate is the interest the FED 1:41:58.280 --> 1:42:02.240 pays on funds that banks whole as reserve balances at 1:42:02.240 --> 1:42:05.599 their Federal Reserve bank, which is the interest on reserve 1:42:05.720 --> 1:42:09.720 balances rate. Because banks are unlikely to lend funds in 1:42:09.760 --> 1:42:12.400 the federal funds market for less than they get paid 1:42:12.439 --> 1:42:15.879 on their reserve balances at the Federal Reserve, the interest 1:42:15.960 --> 1:42:18.759 rate on reserve balances is an effective tool for guiding 1:42:18.760 --> 1:42:23.240 the federal funds rate. Okay, Mia, you've been spouting gibberish 1:42:23.479 --> 1:42:26.559 for many minutes. Now what the fuck does that mean? 1:42:27.160 --> 1:42:30.640 So what the FED is normally doing is all right, 1:42:30.680 --> 1:42:33.240 so you put your money in a bank, right, and 1:42:33.240 --> 1:42:35.040 that bank has an interest rate, and it pays you 1:42:35.160 --> 1:42:38.680 out that amount of interest at the end of the year, right, 1:42:39.080 --> 1:42:41.599 And that's the money that you are making for putting 1:42:41.680 --> 1:42:45.559 your money in this corporation. The FED also has their 1:42:45.640 --> 1:42:48.720 own interest on reserve balances, so that they have their 1:42:48.720 --> 1:42:51.280 own interest rate for how much money you can get 1:42:51.320 --> 1:42:55.479 from just leaving your money in the Federal Reserve. And 1:42:55.760 --> 1:42:57.880 the theory, and this is like you know, true, is 1:42:57.920 --> 1:43:00.840 that banks aren't going to lend each other money at 1:43:00.920 --> 1:43:04.840 interest rates that are lower than what you can get 1:43:05.560 --> 1:43:08.280 from the FED because otherwise you just leave your money 1:43:08.320 --> 1:43:11.160 in the FED and you get them out amount of money. 1:43:11.560 --> 1:43:16.280 So if you're going to you know, loan someone something, right, 1:43:16.439 --> 1:43:18.880 the interest that's being charged here is going to be 1:43:19.560 --> 1:43:21.680 higher than the FED rate. And that's when we talk 1:43:21.720 --> 1:43:24.439 about FED setting interest rates. That that's what's happening on 1:43:24.479 --> 1:43:27.800 a technical level, and this is actually very important in 1:43:27.840 --> 1:43:30.960 the global economy because what this does, and this is 1:43:30.960 --> 1:43:33.479 where everything gets extremely murky, and I'm going to go 1:43:33.600 --> 1:43:37.519 to a very very high level of abstraction down from 1:43:37.560 --> 1:43:41.240 sort of the very low technical details. Now in theory, 1:43:41.840 --> 1:43:44.639 what this means is, this is how easy it is 1:43:44.680 --> 1:43:49.120 to obtain money to invest in stuff. Right, This sets 1:43:49.120 --> 1:43:52.679 the rate at which you can borrow money. And in theory, 1:43:52.760 --> 1:43:56.559 if you have a very very low interest rate right 1:43:56.560 --> 1:43:58.800 the FED, if the FED funds rate is really low, 1:43:59.160 --> 1:44:01.360 then it's very read cheap and easy to get a 1:44:01.400 --> 1:44:03.519 bunch of money, and that money flows to the economy, 1:44:03.560 --> 1:44:07.840 and theoretically that money will you know, be used to 1:44:07.920 --> 1:44:11.120 invest in stuff and that will increase economic growth. Okay, 1:44:11.160 --> 1:44:13.160 so why wouldn't the FED rate just always be zero? 1:44:13.600 --> 1:44:15.840 And the answer to that is that the FED is 1:44:15.880 --> 1:44:18.759 an institution and this this is part of its legal 1:44:18.800 --> 1:44:22.200 framework that established it is also trying to control inflation. 1:44:23.080 --> 1:44:25.800 And the theory, effectively is that if you leave these 1:44:25.800 --> 1:44:29.080 things for too low for too long, it will cause inflation, 1:44:29.200 --> 1:44:32.920 and it will cause economic bubbles that are not actually 1:44:32.920 --> 1:44:35.000 supported by the return on investment. Because if you can 1:44:35.040 --> 1:44:39.559 just always continuously borrow money for zero dollars, then you 1:44:39.600 --> 1:44:41.759 can just invest in anything as long as the return 1:44:41.880 --> 1:44:46.120 is like slightly more than like nothing. However, comma raising 1:44:46.160 --> 1:44:48.719 interest rates used as a way to try to slow 1:44:48.760 --> 1:44:54.680 economic growth in order to not have inflation results, right 1:44:54.720 --> 1:44:57.639 and also to not have there be sort of speculative bubbles. 1:44:58.760 --> 1:45:01.400 And right now we've entered period in which interest rates 1:45:01.439 --> 1:45:05.360 have been rising. After a pretty prolonged period of interest 1:45:05.439 --> 1:45:08.240 rates being effectively zero, like following the two thousand and 1:45:08.240 --> 1:45:11.280 eight financial collapse, they've been really low for like a while, 1:45:11.479 --> 1:45:13.600 for some stuff in the nineties that we're going to 1:45:13.640 --> 1:45:16.519 get to you later. But this is basically the primary dispute, 1:45:16.760 --> 1:45:19.880 which is that Okay, now, obviously the FED is to 1:45:19.920 --> 1:45:22.840 some extent a political actor. But the question here is 1:45:23.200 --> 1:45:25.040 who is going to get to set these sort of 1:45:25.080 --> 1:45:27.960 interest rates? Right? Is it going to be the President 1:45:28.000 --> 1:45:30.720 of the United States? Right, is it going to be 1:45:30.800 --> 1:45:33.439 that Donald Trump can just be like, oh, economy look bad, 1:45:33.600 --> 1:45:37.160 turned down the interest rate? Or is it going to 1:45:37.200 --> 1:45:39.599 be the Federal Reserve itself, which is how it presently 1:45:39.640 --> 1:45:45.080 functions running this And that's what FED independence means. So 1:45:45.160 --> 1:45:49.720 what is that stake here is one of the defining 1:45:50.479 --> 1:45:54.639 the defining mechanisms of sort of economic control, of control 1:45:54.680 --> 1:45:56.720 over the function of the economy. You know that this 1:45:56.760 --> 1:46:00.200 is called like a macroeconomic policy lever Right. This is 1:46:00.600 --> 1:46:05.320 one of the largest, most important and most powerful tools 1:46:05.360 --> 1:46:08.640 that exists in the entire world economy for managing and 1:46:08.720 --> 1:46:12.880 regulating the American economy. And the question is is this 1:46:12.960 --> 1:46:17.320 going to remain with this sort of quasi technocratic independent 1:46:17.439 --> 1:46:19.800 staff or is it going to be directly set by 1:46:19.800 --> 1:46:23.839 the president. And that is a huge fucking deal because 1:46:23.880 --> 1:46:26.519 as you mentioned last time I talked about this, there 1:46:26.560 --> 1:46:29.960 have been times where presidents have gotten control over central banks. 1:46:30.240 --> 1:46:32.400 For example, the sort of scare story that everyone is 1:46:32.439 --> 1:46:37.840 talking about is Turkey where Airdwan, they're effectively dictatorial leader, 1:46:38.280 --> 1:46:42.280 managed to break the independence of his own central bank 1:46:42.479 --> 1:46:48.360 and inflation rates are now merely forty percent. So this 1:46:48.400 --> 1:46:51.840 is what's at stake. It's who gets to control this thing? 1:46:52.800 --> 1:46:56.160 Is it Donald Trump or is it the Federal Reserve? 1:46:56.840 --> 1:46:58.400 Now we are going to go to ads and we 1:46:58.439 --> 1:47:01.280 are going to come back and talk a bit more 1:47:01.400 --> 1:47:15.519 about some of the nightmares that can happen here. Now. Okay, 1:47:15.520 --> 1:47:17.680 so we've been talking mostly about the FED interest rate 1:47:17.680 --> 1:47:20.040 because that is most of what it does, or that's 1:47:20.080 --> 1:47:22.920 not most of what it does. That's the most important 1:47:23.080 --> 1:47:26.000 thing that it does on a political level in terms 1:47:26.080 --> 1:47:31.519 of you know, this is why Donald Trump wants it. However, coma, 1:47:31.760 --> 1:47:35.200 the FED does a bunch of other shit, like, for example, 1:47:35.680 --> 1:47:38.320 a whole bunch of the world's gold supply owned by 1:47:38.320 --> 1:47:40.360 a bunch of countries across the world sits in a 1:47:40.479 --> 1:47:45.360 vault under the Federal Reserve building. The FED has a 1:47:45.600 --> 1:47:49.799 balance sheet right of like the assets that it owns 1:47:49.840 --> 1:47:54.120 and that balance sheet is right now about six and 1:47:54.120 --> 1:47:58.519 a half trillion dollars. The payment system that the FED 1:47:58.640 --> 1:48:04.519 maintains has two trillion dollars a day moving through it. Right, 1:48:05.040 --> 1:48:08.640 This payment infrastructure, the infrastructure of the Federal Reserve is 1:48:09.400 --> 1:48:14.599 the core of the functioning of the entire American banking system. 1:48:15.720 --> 1:48:17.840 Like I kind of emphasize this enough, and this is 1:48:17.880 --> 1:48:20.880 also you know, important on a macro international level, right, 1:48:21.040 --> 1:48:26.879 Like this institution functioning sort of normally is the difference 1:48:26.920 --> 1:48:30.719 between capitalism working kind of normally, which is not good 1:48:30.760 --> 1:48:35.599 but is working, and it's not working, and Trump is 1:48:35.640 --> 1:48:38.640 trying to take control of it. And again, this is 1:48:38.680 --> 1:48:41.880 a guy who wants to invade Greenland, and she is 1:48:41.920 --> 1:48:45.400 trying to take control over one of the most powerful 1:48:45.600 --> 1:48:50.559 economic institutions that has ever existed in human history. So 1:48:51.000 --> 1:48:52.840 these are the sort of the stakes of the fight 1:48:52.880 --> 1:48:55.280 that's happening here, because again, the FED is supposed to 1:48:55.280 --> 1:48:59.080 be an independent entity, right The President is not supposed 1:48:59.120 --> 1:49:01.160 to be able to order the FED to just do 1:49:01.280 --> 1:49:04.559 whatever it wants. And this is what's at stake with 1:49:05.160 --> 1:49:08.360 Trump trying to fire one of these Reserve board presidents, 1:49:08.520 --> 1:49:12.519 with Trump trying to prosecute the current head of the 1:49:12.520 --> 1:49:16.519 Federal Reserve and use that threat to bring the Fed 1:49:16.640 --> 1:49:19.679 into line with doing what he wants to do. Now, 1:49:19.680 --> 1:49:23.200 Trump is also again attempting to install his own guy 1:49:23.960 --> 1:49:27.800 when Jerome Powell's term as the Chairman of the Federal 1:49:27.880 --> 1:49:32.280 Reserve Board ends. And Okay, in terms of could the 1:49:32.280 --> 1:49:37.040 Trump administration actually run this, right, I'm gonna read this 1:49:37.160 --> 1:49:41.439 quote from actually a very good Yahoo story about the 1:49:41.520 --> 1:49:45.240 search for Trump's knew who he wants to run the 1:49:45.240 --> 1:49:49.519 Federal Reserve. This is starting with a quote from Trump's 1:49:49.560 --> 1:49:54.800 Treasury Secretary Scott Bessett, Who's been the guy who is 1:49:55.160 --> 1:49:59.280 running the candidate search. Quote, who can bring the board 1:49:59.320 --> 1:50:03.200 along with them? Who has the gravitas, Bessett said, who 1:50:03.280 --> 1:50:06.799 is going to have an open, green span like mind 1:50:07.080 --> 1:50:09.559 that we could be going through a productivity boom like 1:50:09.560 --> 1:50:12.559 we did in the nineties and not just throw the 1:50:12.640 --> 1:50:17.040 brakes because we're alarmed at a high GDP number. Okay, 1:50:17.960 --> 1:50:23.519 if you have spent your life closely following American macroeconomic policy, 1:50:24.040 --> 1:50:31.880 that is nuts. That is a terrifying statement, utterly horrifying. Now, Mia, 1:50:31.960 --> 1:50:34.360 why is it scary to say that he wants a 1:50:34.400 --> 1:50:37.360 green span like mindset that doesn't throw the brakes on 1:50:37.880 --> 1:50:40.200 the economy because they're alarmed by a GDP number. Why 1:50:40.280 --> 1:50:42.639 is that scary? And this is also you know, why 1:50:42.680 --> 1:50:44.519 is it scary for the Trump administration to have direct 1:50:44.520 --> 1:50:46.720 control of the Federal Reserve. Part of the reason we 1:50:46.760 --> 1:50:49.160 haven't had a full scale economic collapse in two thousand 1:50:49.160 --> 1:50:52.439 and eight has been that there has been a bunch 1:50:52.479 --> 1:50:57.320 of very very careful management of the economy by the 1:50:57.360 --> 1:50:59.960 Federal Reserve. Right, they have done a lot of technical stuff. 1:51:00.439 --> 1:51:02.439 You know, I'm saying they've done a lot of technical stuff. 1:51:02.520 --> 1:51:05.040 Well when I say well, I mean for the functioning 1:51:05.080 --> 1:51:08.840 of capital, like you and me and everyone listening to this. 1:51:09.520 --> 1:51:12.760 Is it working for us? No, not really, but it's 1:51:12.760 --> 1:51:16.599 working for capital, right, And they've been able to prevent 1:51:16.680 --> 1:51:19.879 an economic collapse through a lot of sort of technical means. 1:51:20.479 --> 1:51:22.439 In twenty twenty, and you see this now, they did 1:51:22.439 --> 1:51:26.200 these things called overnight repo injections where they would pump 1:51:26.320 --> 1:51:29.599 like one hundred billion dollars in liquidity into the bank 1:51:29.640 --> 1:51:32.799 markets overnight in order to make sure there was liquidity 1:51:32.840 --> 1:51:34.200 to because that was one of the things that cost 1:51:34.320 --> 1:51:37.120 two thousand and eight collapse so they've been doing a 1:51:37.120 --> 1:51:39.200 bunch of very careful management, some of it in these 1:51:39.320 --> 1:51:42.640 large swings that have very little public attention, some of 1:51:42.680 --> 1:51:45.519 it in just the way they've been doing policy. What 1:51:45.680 --> 1:51:49.080 these guys want to do is the Greenspan stuff from 1:51:49.080 --> 1:51:51.320 the nineties. So okay, meyah, what the fuck is that? 1:51:52.120 --> 1:51:55.559 So what he's talking about is the green Span put now, 1:51:55.560 --> 1:51:58.640 what happened to the nineties To simplify the story a 1:51:58.680 --> 1:52:01.439 little bit, but I'm not evenly simplifying it much. Every 1:52:01.520 --> 1:52:05.920 time the market went down, Greenspan would just lower the 1:52:05.920 --> 1:52:07.960 interest rate to make the market go back up. Right, 1:52:08.400 --> 1:52:11.120 So every single time it even sort of looks like 1:52:11.160 --> 1:52:14.280 the market might be going down, he makes the cost 1:52:14.320 --> 1:52:16.280 of borrowing from the Fed cheaper, so you can just 1:52:16.360 --> 1:52:18.679 take more money out of the Federal Reserve and plunge 1:52:18.680 --> 1:52:21.599 that money back into the stock market. Right, that's the 1:52:21.600 --> 1:52:25.160 theory here. The economist Robert Brenner called it asset Kanesianism. 1:52:25.160 --> 1:52:28.360 This is something we have talked about on the show many, many, 1:52:28.400 --> 1:52:32.000 many times, and it is to a large extent, the 1:52:32.000 --> 1:52:35.120 thing responsible for the two thousand and eight economic collapse, 1:52:35.680 --> 1:52:38.800 and also the dot com bo will before that, and 1:52:39.400 --> 1:52:43.879 arguably also the Asian market collapses in the nineties. Okay, 1:52:43.960 --> 1:52:45.800 you know you're you're dealing with a problem, which is 1:52:45.800 --> 1:52:48.839 that you don't have a manufacturing economy that can support 1:52:49.520 --> 1:52:52.120 economic growth. So what are you gonna do instead? Okay, 1:52:52.160 --> 1:52:54.080 we're gonna give everyone a bunch of money so they 1:52:54.120 --> 1:52:56.880 can do speculative investing in stocks. And we're gonna give 1:52:56.920 --> 1:52:58.400 him one a bunch of money so that they can 1:52:59.240 --> 1:53:02.040 go invest in housing market because housing prices will only 1:53:02.080 --> 1:53:05.479 ever go up, and that's the thing that these people 1:53:05.560 --> 1:53:08.920 want to do. Right And in terms of why, okay, 1:53:08.960 --> 1:53:10.280 why should you be scared about this? 1:53:10.439 --> 1:53:10.599 Right? 1:53:10.880 --> 1:53:13.880 This is like saying that, Okay, we need to bring 1:53:13.960 --> 1:53:17.599 back the guys who did all of the mortgage backed 1:53:17.600 --> 1:53:20.040 securities in two thousand and eight that went up and 1:53:20.080 --> 1:53:22.360 put them in charge of like the world's most powerful 1:53:22.400 --> 1:53:27.439 economic institution. So the candidates that Trump is talking about 1:53:27.479 --> 1:53:30.200 putting in place, I don't know if any of them 1:53:30.240 --> 1:53:32.519 are going to make it right now, because I think 1:53:32.560 --> 1:53:34.360 the kind of person Trump is looking for is not 1:53:34.400 --> 1:53:37.760 the kind of person who like runs this kind of 1:53:37.800 --> 1:53:40.800 thing normally. In terms of like what Trump would do 1:53:41.160 --> 1:53:43.840 with the guy that he sort of installed there, we 1:53:44.240 --> 1:53:48.439 can look at who they've already installed, right, And the 1:53:48.640 --> 1:53:52.400 one Federal Reserve Board member that Trump has successfully gotten 1:53:52.439 --> 1:53:55.840 in place is Stephan Miren who, and I kind of 1:53:55.840 --> 1:53:58.479 emphasizes enough, I talk about how nuts this guy is 1:53:58.760 --> 1:54:01.080 all the time. This is this's the guy who wants 1:54:01.320 --> 1:54:05.559 other countries to pay taxes on holding US bonds. And 1:54:05.600 --> 1:54:07.400 this is the guy that, again, is now one of 1:54:07.439 --> 1:54:09.519 the governors of the Federal Reserve, war because Trump put 1:54:09.600 --> 1:54:12.639 him there. I could spend another forty minutes ranting about 1:54:12.640 --> 1:54:15.559 how bad of an idea his Mara Lago Accords, which 1:54:15.600 --> 1:54:18.040 is his version of the Plaza Chords, would be. It's gibberish, 1:54:18.080 --> 1:54:24.120 it's atrocious. And these people are simply not good enough 1:54:24.240 --> 1:54:27.599 at technical economic management to be put in charge of 1:54:27.960 --> 1:54:31.120 the Federal Reserve, the most powerful economic agency in the 1:54:31.240 --> 1:54:34.600 entire world. And again, as I've been saying, right, this 1:54:34.680 --> 1:54:37.360 economic management has been good for capital. Has it been 1:54:37.440 --> 1:54:44.960 good for us? Like? No, not really. However, putting that 1:54:45.040 --> 1:54:48.160 power directly into the hands of Donald Trump is an 1:54:48.240 --> 1:54:51.880 even worse idea. But it's also very important that this 1:54:51.920 --> 1:54:55.160 has been good for capital, because FED independence is the 1:54:55.240 --> 1:54:58.680 red line for a lot of very very powerful sectors 1:54:58.680 --> 1:55:01.720 of capital who would be fine with things like like 1:55:01.760 --> 1:55:04.200 you could, like Trump could do public executions in the streets, 1:55:04.680 --> 1:55:08.240 and like GP Morgan eventually would be okay with it. Right, 1:55:08.800 --> 1:55:12.560 JP Morgan is like panicking over this Federal Reserve stuff. 1:55:13.040 --> 1:55:16.400 So this is actually a line at which segments of 1:55:16.440 --> 1:55:20.320 capital are willing to break with Trump because this is 1:55:20.360 --> 1:55:23.360 an existential threat to them. Now, before I sort of 1:55:23.400 --> 1:55:26.440 close this out, you know, I've been giving what is 1:55:26.520 --> 1:55:30.800 essentially a very conventional analysis of what the Federal Reserve is, 1:55:30.880 --> 1:55:33.160 because to some extent you need a conventional analysis of 1:55:33.160 --> 1:55:37.400 what the Federal Reserve is to understand what the fuck 1:55:37.480 --> 1:55:40.960 is going on with these board things. But I want 1:55:40.960 --> 1:55:43.640 to give the final word to the anthropologist David Graper. 1:55:44.160 --> 1:55:48.200 This is from his book Debt the First five thousand Years. Quote. 1:55:48.880 --> 1:55:52.960 One element, however, tends to go flagrantly missing in even 1:55:53.040 --> 1:55:56.560 the most vivid conspiracy theories about the banking system, let 1:55:56.600 --> 1:56:00.400 alone in official accounts. That is the role of war 1:56:00.520 --> 1:56:04.200 and military power. There's a reason why the Wizard has 1:56:04.200 --> 1:56:06.800 such a strange capacity to make money out of nothing. 1:56:07.560 --> 1:56:11.640 Behind him, there is a man with a gun. True, 1:56:11.840 --> 1:56:15.160 in one sense, he's been there from the start, I 1:56:15.200 --> 1:56:18.120 have already pointed out that modern money is based on 1:56:18.160 --> 1:56:21.280 government debt, and that governments borrow money in order to 1:56:21.320 --> 1:56:25.600 finance wars. This is just as true today as it 1:56:25.760 --> 1:56:28.360 was in the age of King Philip the Second. The 1:56:28.440 --> 1:56:33.120 creation of central banks represented a permanent institutionalization of that 1:56:33.320 --> 1:56:36.440 marriage between the interests of warriors and financiers that had 1:56:36.480 --> 1:56:40.840 already begun to emerge in Renaissance Italy, and that eventually 1:56:40.880 --> 1:56:45.360 became the foundation of financial capitalism. And this is something 1:56:45.400 --> 1:56:48.200 that's very very important. Right. We've been talking about how 1:56:48.240 --> 1:56:52.839 important the FED is as an economic institution, and obviously 1:56:52.840 --> 1:56:55.440 the importance of the Federal Reserve is tied in with 1:56:55.520 --> 1:56:58.480 the fact that the dollar is the world's reserve currency, 1:56:58.520 --> 1:57:01.480 which makes it the most important currency on Earth. It 1:57:01.560 --> 1:57:04.680 means that every other country is doing a bunch of 1:57:04.680 --> 1:57:08.120 transactions denominated in American dollars, and it turns out when 1:57:08.120 --> 1:57:10.680 you can make American dollars that is an enormous advantage 1:57:10.720 --> 1:57:16.320 for you. But this is all based on American military power. Right. 1:57:16.400 --> 1:57:18.720 The reason that the dollar is the world reserve currency 1:57:18.800 --> 1:57:22.440 is because all of the countries that had competing currencies 1:57:22.440 --> 1:57:24.240 that could have been the international standard were sort of 1:57:24.280 --> 1:57:26.560 annihilated during World War Two, and at the end of 1:57:26.600 --> 1:57:28.960 World War Two it was the United States left standing 1:57:29.160 --> 1:57:33.160 with the richest and most powerful economy on Earth. Yes, 1:57:33.240 --> 1:57:36.920 but also like it was the country with nukes and 1:57:37.600 --> 1:57:41.520 the largest army that wasn't the Soviets. Right. The element 1:57:41.560 --> 1:57:43.760 here that Graber is pointing out right is that the 1:57:43.800 --> 1:57:46.440 debt that you and me and everyone is like carrying 1:57:46.480 --> 1:57:50.879 out our day to day stuff with is war debt. 1:57:51.280 --> 1:57:54.560 Literally the thing that we used to like buy groceries 1:57:55.040 --> 1:57:58.320 is to a large extent, it's a tiny bit more 1:57:58.320 --> 1:58:01.200 complicated than this, but like loads that were taken out 1:58:01.200 --> 1:58:05.879 to like go bomb Vietnam. And part of what's happening 1:58:05.960 --> 1:58:09.240 under the Trump administration is that all of the things 1:58:09.520 --> 1:58:13.959 that used to be under the table, right, the US, 1:58:14.320 --> 1:58:17.400 you know, always had the kind of military power that 1:58:17.440 --> 1:58:19.760 Trump is sort of throwing around to try to you know, 1:58:19.800 --> 1:58:23.200 invade Greenland or just kidnap the president of Venezuela and 1:58:23.240 --> 1:58:26.560 like run the country by gunboat. The US has always 1:58:26.640 --> 1:58:29.800 had the ability to do this. It's just that it 1:58:29.880 --> 1:58:33.920 was largely agreed upon by everyone involved running the system 1:58:33.960 --> 1:58:36.560 that using this power under the table was more effective 1:58:36.560 --> 1:58:39.800 than using it openly. The Trump administration thinks that, you know, 1:58:40.360 --> 1:58:44.600 using soft power or not explicitly, just like saying we're 1:58:44.640 --> 1:58:48.400 going to invade you is like womanly pussy coock shit, 1:58:48.720 --> 1:58:51.800 Like that's effectively what's happening here, is it? And these 1:58:51.840 --> 1:58:54.160 people think that these relationships need to be drawn out 1:58:54.240 --> 1:58:58.000 into the open, right, And so what we're left with 1:58:58.240 --> 1:59:03.000 here is a war between two sectors of capital, one 1:59:03.040 --> 1:59:05.480 of which wants to immolate the world to satisfy the 1:59:05.520 --> 1:59:09.040 ego of a tyrant, and the other of which wants 1:59:09.080 --> 1:59:13.240 to let climate change immolate the world slightly slower, because 1:59:13.800 --> 1:59:16.440 doing anything about climate change would hurt their bottom line, 1:59:16.480 --> 1:59:19.800 but allowing the god king to immolate the world by 1:59:19.880 --> 1:59:23.640 himself would hurt their bottom line too. And this is 1:59:23.760 --> 1:59:28.880 effectively the problem with the moment that they're in, which 1:59:28.920 --> 1:59:33.200 is that neither of these institutions, right, Donald Trump is 1:59:33.200 --> 1:59:35.120 not on your side. The Federal Reserve is also not 1:59:35.160 --> 1:59:39.600 on your side. What is necessary here, though, is not 1:59:40.080 --> 1:59:44.440 for sort of comrade Federal Reserve to join us. What 1:59:44.560 --> 1:59:49.680 is necessary here for our purposes is that enough sectors 1:59:49.720 --> 1:59:53.520 of capital when the time comes right, when Trump finally 1:59:53.560 --> 1:59:56.440 does something and when there's a popular reaction enough that 1:59:56.560 --> 2:00:01.280 forces a confrontration between Trump and the American people. When 2:00:01.320 --> 2:00:06.440 that time comes, what is necessary is that these massive 2:00:06.480 --> 2:00:12.200 and powerful economic institutions stand aside and not defend the regime. 2:00:12.640 --> 2:00:15.200 As I've talked about to a significant extent on this 2:00:15.240 --> 2:00:18.520 podcast already, this is how the Bolsheviks won their revolution. 2:00:18.600 --> 2:00:21.000 It's also how the February Revolution won, which was that 2:00:21.800 --> 2:00:26.440 large portions of the populace, large portions of the ruling class, 2:00:27.080 --> 2:00:29.480 and to some extent, large portions of the state simply 2:00:29.520 --> 2:00:33.720 sat the conflict out because they didn't particularly like the revolutionaries, 2:00:33.720 --> 2:00:36.600 but they also weren't going to go die for some 2:00:36.840 --> 2:00:42.280 random tyrant. And that, in the end, is what's important 2:00:42.320 --> 2:00:45.080 about this conflict. Right there is, on the one hand, 2:00:45.120 --> 2:00:48.720 the possibility of Donald Trump just immolating the entire economy, 2:00:49.120 --> 2:00:51.800 and on the other there is the possibility of these 2:00:51.840 --> 2:00:54.920 people standing aside when we attempt to build a world 2:00:55.800 --> 2:01:00.760 when we are not being lit on fire for profit. Husband, 2:01:00.800 --> 2:01:01.760 it could happen here. 2:01:16.840 --> 2:01:20.680 What's getting assaulted by federal agents? 2:01:20.720 --> 2:01:25.840 No, don't I love when we start episodes both sleepy and. 2:01:26.360 --> 2:01:29.840 I'm Wired, I'm awake, I'm wide awake, baby, I'm a 2:01:29.880 --> 2:01:30.400 white awake. 2:01:30.480 --> 2:01:33.120 Will you will you start? Will you do you are? 2:01:33.200 --> 2:01:33.400 Yeah? 2:01:33.520 --> 2:01:35.440 We already started, We already started. 2:01:35.600 --> 2:01:36.080 We have it. 2:01:36.280 --> 2:01:37.959 This is Executive Disorder. 2:01:38.080 --> 2:01:41.800 This is it could happen here. Executive Disorder, our weekly 2:01:41.840 --> 2:01:44.760 newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, 2:01:44.840 --> 2:01:47.080 and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today 2:01:47.120 --> 2:01:50.680 I'm joined by James Stout, Mio Wong, Robert Evans, and 2:01:50.840 --> 2:01:55.400 Margaret Kiljoy. This episode, we are covering the week of 2:01:55.520 --> 2:01:58.040 January fourteenth to January twenty. 2:01:58.200 --> 2:02:00.960 First, you know a lot of news organizations don't go 2:02:01.040 --> 2:02:03.880 woot woot geither cowards fucked up. 2:02:04.280 --> 2:02:05.600 That's because they don't drink fago. 2:02:06.040 --> 2:02:06.840 I know that's right. 2:02:07.600 --> 2:02:10.920 The official beverage of this journalist. This episode's printed by 2:02:10.920 --> 2:02:13.560 four Loco at tea mugget. You're a in allowed test. 2:02:13.720 --> 2:02:14.320 Yeah. 2:02:14.440 --> 2:02:17.200 Speaking of drinking, Actually, we will start this episode with 2:02:17.760 --> 2:02:20.120 a big glass of whole milk. Everyone has one, right, 2:02:20.200 --> 2:02:21.800 let's all go up at the same time. 2:02:22.360 --> 2:02:24.440 We finish it as we leave for the toilet. 2:02:24.600 --> 2:02:27.640 There we go, delicious, delicious whole milk. 2:02:27.720 --> 2:02:29.240 We drink a gallon every hour. 2:02:29.640 --> 2:02:32.040 We are not sponsored by the dairy lobby. There's nothing 2:02:32.120 --> 2:02:35.800 fishy going on whatsoever. We're not a drinking whole milk now. 2:02:35.680 --> 2:02:41.520 Not at all, not at all, Garrison Heifer, Davis. 2:02:41.920 --> 2:02:45.920 Heffer, even even Margaret Yeah, who's been a vegan for 2:02:46.200 --> 2:02:47.320 how many decades? 2:02:47.880 --> 2:02:49.560 Look, you can be a vegan and still have a 2:02:49.720 --> 2:02:52.360 lot of money in the dairy industry, Sophie. 2:02:52.560 --> 2:02:55.080 Well, all I'm saying is that if I increase my 2:02:55.160 --> 2:02:58.040 meat diet by twenty five percent, it will stay the same. 2:02:59.080 --> 2:03:01.640 Look, that's that's accurate. 2:03:02.080 --> 2:03:03.680 We love we love that math Huber. 2:03:03.840 --> 2:03:04.040 Yeah. 2:03:04.320 --> 2:03:07.320 And also, thanks to some of the new changes in 2:03:07.360 --> 2:03:09.400 the way the Food and Drug Administration works, I can 2:03:09.400 --> 2:03:12.520 guarantee you that American whole milk has almost no dairy 2:03:12.560 --> 2:03:18.800 in it. It's mostly chalk and baby laxative, just like 2:03:18.800 --> 2:03:19.440 our heroine. 2:03:20.480 --> 2:03:22.480 I have a theory about this. Can I sham my 2:03:22.520 --> 2:03:26.400 bog theory? I think the grand unifying principle about which 2:03:26.400 --> 2:03:28.560 we could bring American people together is that there are 2:03:28.600 --> 2:03:31.360 too many milks. Everyone agreed, that's right. 2:03:31.360 --> 2:03:36.040 Principle, that's right, what should take over from class? Yeah, yeah, milks, 2:03:36.920 --> 2:03:38.680 the great unifying milk principles. 2:03:38.840 --> 2:03:40.000 Yeah, the milk productionist. 2:03:41.040 --> 2:03:43.920 You know what place loves milk? Minnesota. 2:03:44.080 --> 2:03:46.640 Yeah, let's turn to Minneapolis. The continuing ICE raids. In 2:03:46.680 --> 2:03:52.600 the fallout from ICE killing Renee Goody. On Wednesday, January fourteenth, 2:03:52.920 --> 2:03:55.680 ICE agents attempted to pull over a vehicle whose tag 2:03:55.880 --> 2:03:59.440 was registered to someone illegally in the country. The driver 2:03:59.680 --> 2:04:02.520 was not the owner of the vehicle and tried to 2:04:02.720 --> 2:04:06.560 evade arrest. After a fifteen to twenty minute car chase, 2:04:06.560 --> 2:04:09.680 the driver crashed into a light pole, but continued to 2:04:09.760 --> 2:04:13.600 run on foot. The man ran towards a nearby apartment building, 2:04:13.680 --> 2:04:16.440 with agents now chasing on foot, catching up with him 2:04:16.480 --> 2:04:19.800 after the man tripped and fell. A fedral Affidavid claims 2:04:19.800 --> 2:04:23.720 that another man watching from a porch named Julio Caesar 2:04:24.120 --> 2:04:29.080 Sosa Seles used a broom to assault the agents, while 2:04:29.080 --> 2:04:32.960 an unnamed individual hit the agents with a snow shovel. 2:04:34.080 --> 2:04:36.960 After the man they were chasing freed himself, one of 2:04:36.960 --> 2:04:41.280 the ICE agents fired his pistol, hitting Soceles, who was 2:04:41.320 --> 2:04:45.640 then hospitalized with a non life threatening injury. This information 2:04:45.760 --> 2:04:50.360 is from an FBI report, which contradicts initial statements made 2:04:50.560 --> 2:04:54.440 by DHS, which claimed that ICE was conducting a targeted 2:04:54.480 --> 2:04:59.880 traffic stop for Julio Caesar Sosacelees, a Venezuelan national cool. 2:05:00.680 --> 2:05:03.800 I think it's worth noting that this is essentially ice 2:05:03.960 --> 2:05:06.200 shooting the guy who saves the day at the end 2:05:06.240 --> 2:05:08.600 of home alone. Just as a quick note, that's all 2:05:08.600 --> 2:05:09.280 I've got to say. 2:05:10.240 --> 2:05:14.520 So, we haven't gotten very much good information about the 2:05:14.520 --> 2:05:17.720 shooting that's not from the government. What we do have 2:05:17.960 --> 2:05:21.960 is there is a livestream Facebook video of some of 2:05:22.040 --> 2:05:24.640 the nine to one one call that the family member's 2:05:24.640 --> 2:05:27.560 maids and I'm just going to quote from CNN here 2:05:27.840 --> 2:05:30.120 in the video, the family tells a nine to eleven 2:05:30.160 --> 2:05:33.240 dispatcher that agent shot so to sell Us as he 2:05:33.280 --> 2:05:36.120 tried to enter his home. They were following my husband 2:05:36.120 --> 2:05:38.840 for about thirty minutes. They were trying to crash into him. 2:05:38.880 --> 2:05:41.800 He arrived at home, and because we closed the door 2:05:41.840 --> 2:05:43.640 to them, they shot him. A woman can be heard 2:05:43.640 --> 2:05:47.080 telling the dispatcher it's not clear who is speaking or 2:05:47.160 --> 2:05:50.120 whether so sell Us is the person referred to as 2:05:50.160 --> 2:05:55.080 being followed. So that's the only kind of independent thing 2:05:55.240 --> 2:05:59.160 that we have on this right now, which also significantly 2:05:59.200 --> 2:06:02.800 contradicts the story that they got attacked by a guy 2:06:02.840 --> 2:06:05.280 with a snowshovel or brim. 2:06:05.360 --> 2:06:08.560 I mean, I don't think it necessarily contradicts that there 2:06:08.680 --> 2:06:12.080 was a shovel getting moved in the direction of an 2:06:12.080 --> 2:06:14.040 ICE agent at some point. 2:06:13.720 --> 2:06:16.160 Right, Yeah, attacked. It may have just been a guy 2:06:16.200 --> 2:06:19.120 trying to create distance in space between itself and an 2:06:20.080 --> 2:06:20.680 armed man. 2:06:20.880 --> 2:06:22.720 Yeah, knocked it over as he ran past it, right, 2:06:22.760 --> 2:06:23.720 and then they tripped over it. 2:06:23.800 --> 2:06:26.560 Like, there's a wide variety of things that police officers 2:06:26.560 --> 2:06:29.080 have framed as I was assaulted with this, and then 2:06:29.080 --> 2:06:31.000 if you look at the video, it does not look 2:06:31.080 --> 2:06:33.000 like someone assaulting a police officer. 2:06:33.440 --> 2:06:33.680 Yeah. 2:06:33.720 --> 2:06:36.600 It might have just literally been a snowshovel on the porch. Honestly, 2:06:36.760 --> 2:06:39.880 they might have assaulted a police officer. Yeah, I don't 2:06:39.920 --> 2:06:42.000 care either way. I'm just saying we don't know what happened. 2:06:42.120 --> 2:06:42.600 Yeah. 2:06:42.760 --> 2:06:45.000 The main report, which is in federal court documents that 2:06:45.000 --> 2:06:48.800 were unsealed on Tuesday, have this FBI agent giving his 2:06:49.120 --> 2:06:53.560 report based on his knowledge of the incident, which had 2:06:53.720 --> 2:06:57.440 ICE chasing someone that bystanders used a broom and a 2:06:57.480 --> 2:06:59.600 shovel trying to get the agents off a man who 2:06:59.640 --> 2:07:03.720 was tackled on the ground. One ICE agent deflected a 2:07:03.800 --> 2:07:07.040 shovel blow and it created a small gash in his hand. 2:07:07.840 --> 2:07:10.040 The men that they were chasing was able to free 2:07:10.120 --> 2:07:12.720 himself from being held, and as that man was running away, 2:07:12.920 --> 2:07:17.760 an agent fired a pistol. That is the the most 2:07:17.920 --> 2:07:20.040 detailed report that we have at the moment. 2:07:20.240 --> 2:07:23.920 Yeah, sure, and like we can't categorically say what happened, right, 2:07:23.920 --> 2:07:26.360 You can't report a law enforcement testimony as you only saw, 2:07:26.440 --> 2:07:27.600 so what you shouldn't Yeah. 2:07:27.520 --> 2:07:28.120 Sure, shouldn't. 2:07:28.160 --> 2:07:30.280 I guess I can say that, like I'm in Minneapolis 2:07:30.360 --> 2:07:33.600 right now, right, and so Margaret, you're comfortable with. 2:07:33.520 --> 2:07:34.960 Me saying you're also in Minneapolis. 2:07:35.160 --> 2:07:36.960 It's true, I am in Minneapolis right now. 2:07:37.840 --> 2:07:38.880 They are co located. 2:07:38.920 --> 2:07:41.480 As they say, It's very hard to report on these 2:07:41.520 --> 2:07:45.920 things because essentially they happen extremely quickly, right and like 2:07:46.600 --> 2:07:51.440 on almost every corner in most of the like dense 2:07:51.560 --> 2:07:53.680 urban parts of town, there are people hanging out just 2:07:54.120 --> 2:07:57.880 trying to keep their neighbors safe. And these things happen 2:07:57.920 --> 2:08:00.480 so fast that big crowds aren't even able to gather 2:08:00.560 --> 2:08:02.160 for the most part. If you combine that with the 2:08:02.160 --> 2:08:06.320 fact that these iceage de germanly aren't wearing body worn cameras. 2:08:06.360 --> 2:08:10.400 You're only going to get a couple of accounts, and 2:08:10.440 --> 2:08:13.240 it's going to end up in he said, she said, right, right, 2:08:13.280 --> 2:08:16.000 and then they're going to go with the law enforcement testimony. 2:08:15.480 --> 2:08:17.840 Which is what they want, which is exactly yep. 2:08:18.120 --> 2:08:20.240 And I think it is also worth noting that the 2:08:20.360 --> 2:08:24.520 last three shootings that we've gotten, like the federal agents 2:08:24.560 --> 2:08:28.520 lied about what happened. Yeah, and we got the videos 2:08:28.560 --> 2:08:30.320 later on it showed that they were lying about it. 2:08:30.400 --> 2:08:33.800 So at this point, my default assumption is that, absent 2:08:33.920 --> 2:08:36.480 other information, they are not telling the truth. 2:08:36.720 --> 2:08:37.000 Yeah. 2:08:37.200 --> 2:08:37.400 Yeah. 2:08:38.040 --> 2:08:41.760 Also they're framing the Asians, framing his decision to fire 2:08:41.840 --> 2:08:45.760 as related to being afraid of his life, and yeah, 2:08:46.120 --> 2:08:49.240 in the document, the fear would be based on the 2:08:49.280 --> 2:08:51.800 presence of a broom handle and trumps. 2:08:52.840 --> 2:08:53.040 It is. 2:08:53.320 --> 2:08:55.480 It is a broom based assault that he cites as 2:08:55.520 --> 2:08:57.240 the reason that you fired. 2:08:57.640 --> 2:08:59.640 Yeah, it's someone running away, right. 2:09:00.200 --> 2:09:03.000 And the woman who says that her son was the 2:09:03.000 --> 2:09:06.000 one being pursued by ice, I'm just gonna read the 2:09:06.080 --> 2:09:09.200 quote here because this is something that does directly contradict 2:09:09.200 --> 2:09:13.320 the testimony. But in an interview with CNN, Mabel Lajorna, 2:09:13.440 --> 2:09:17.240 the mother of Alfredo Alejandro Aljerno disputed both of those 2:09:17.280 --> 2:09:19.160 claims on the basis of her connection with her son. 2:09:19.200 --> 2:09:22.280 Immediately after the shooting, Aljorna said her son told her 2:09:22.320 --> 2:09:24.200 he was the one being pursued on foot by Ice 2:09:24.880 --> 2:09:27.040 and that the other guy was already inside the building 2:09:27.760 --> 2:09:30.640 when the agent shot him, not outside where Ice said 2:09:30.640 --> 2:09:31.760 the agent fired the shot. 2:09:33.160 --> 2:09:34.040 Geez. Yeah. 2:09:34.160 --> 2:09:35.840 Yeah, So that's the testimony that we have that's not 2:09:35.880 --> 2:09:38.840 from the ICE people, and I think we'll figure out 2:09:38.840 --> 2:09:41.800 in the coming weeks, like what happened. 2:09:42.360 --> 2:09:46.600 Yeah, maybe maybe three people were arrested after this incident. 2:09:46.600 --> 2:09:49.240 The person that they were chasing, who they have claimed 2:09:49.480 --> 2:09:51.920 two different people at some point, the man that Mea 2:09:52.000 --> 2:09:53.920 just referenced, as well as the person who was shot. 2:09:54.120 --> 2:09:56.640 And there's also this third individual who is allegedly the 2:09:56.960 --> 2:10:02.320 shovel wielder, which is not named in the BIAFFA David, Yeah, 2:10:02.480 --> 2:10:04.400 but all of these three people have been arrested. 2:10:04.640 --> 2:10:05.360 Yeah. 2:10:05.440 --> 2:10:09.320 During a protest that same night, dozens of people broke 2:10:09.360 --> 2:10:13.640 into two parked FBI vehicles, finding challenge coins and US 2:10:13.640 --> 2:10:17.560 Marshall documents. One person has been arrested for stealing a 2:10:17.640 --> 2:10:20.560 rifle from one of the vehicles. 2:10:20.360 --> 2:10:23.920 Bad challenge coins much safer, also safer. 2:10:23.960 --> 2:10:28.600 Today on Saturday, Governor Walls mobilize the Minnesota National Guard 2:10:28.640 --> 2:10:32.400 and place them on standby to assist local law enforcement. 2:10:32.920 --> 2:10:36.360 If deployed, the Guard will be wearing yellow reflective vests 2:10:36.440 --> 2:10:39.080 to distinguish themselves from federal forces. 2:10:39.760 --> 2:10:42.320 Yeah. That's this is an interesting moment in and of itself, 2:10:42.440 --> 2:10:46.360 just the acknowledgment from the both the military command and 2:10:46.440 --> 2:10:49.160 the governor that like, yeah, you can't tell the difference 2:10:49.200 --> 2:10:51.920 between a soldier and a cop anymore. Like we have 2:10:52.000 --> 2:10:54.640 to do this so that people don't think the army 2:10:54.760 --> 2:10:56.640 is the police. Yeah. 2:10:56.720 --> 2:10:56.880 Right. 2:10:56.920 --> 2:10:59.000 And it's a very like oraboris moment too, because you 2:10:59.080 --> 2:11:02.240 have just like the cops are dressing up like the soldiers, 2:11:02.280 --> 2:11:04.120 so the soldiers are like, oh, well, I guess we 2:11:04.200 --> 2:11:05.480 got to change how we dress now. 2:11:05.760 --> 2:11:08.000 Yeah, this could actually fuck up our ability to carry 2:11:08.040 --> 2:11:09.560 out our mission. Yeah. 2:11:10.040 --> 2:11:14.919 Further complicating matters, fifteen hundred soldiers from the eleventh Airborne 2:11:14.920 --> 2:11:18.000 Division at Fort Waynworth and Alaska have been placed on standby, 2:11:18.400 --> 2:11:22.280 with Pentagon officials telling CBS News that they are preparing 2:11:22.400 --> 2:11:26.960 to deploy to Minneapolis due to the Eleventh Airborne Division's 2:11:27.120 --> 2:11:29.520 Arctic Forte. There has also been public speculation that this 2:11:29.560 --> 2:11:32.760 activation may be related to rising tensions over Greenland, but 2:11:32.920 --> 2:11:35.680 that has no basis based on what officials are saying 2:11:35.680 --> 2:11:39.320 at the moment. Yeah A Sunday protest in Saint Paul 2:11:39.480 --> 2:11:43.120 disrupted a church service because protesters believe that one of 2:11:43.120 --> 2:11:45.440 the pastors is also the head of the Saint Paul 2:11:45.560 --> 2:11:50.280 ice Field Office, David Easterwood. Easterwood's profile on the church's 2:11:50.280 --> 2:11:54.080 website does appear to match the identity of the head 2:11:54.200 --> 2:11:58.000 of the local ice Field office. Later that day, Attorney 2:11:58.000 --> 2:12:01.840 General Pambondi released a statement quote attacks against law enforcement 2:12:01.920 --> 2:12:05.120 and the intimidation of Christians are being met with the 2:12:05.160 --> 2:12:07.000 full force of federal law. 2:12:07.360 --> 2:12:07.640 Quote. 2:12:08.320 --> 2:12:10.360 The Department of Justice announced that it was launching an 2:12:10.400 --> 2:12:14.400 investigation into the protesters, including TV journalist Don Lemon, who 2:12:14.440 --> 2:12:17.800 was streaming inside the church, for possible violations of the 2:12:17.960 --> 2:12:20.959 Face Act, which makes it a federal crime to interfere 2:12:20.960 --> 2:12:24.440 with people trying to access reproductive clinic services or exercise 2:12:24.520 --> 2:12:27.800 their Firstmendment right of religious freedom at a place of worship. 2:12:29.360 --> 2:12:33.320 Harmet Dylan, Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights, has also 2:12:33.400 --> 2:12:37.360 invoked the Clan Act as a justification to bring conspiracy 2:12:37.440 --> 2:12:42.720 charges against protest attendees, darkly ironic since this very protest 2:12:42.760 --> 2:12:46.080 was partially put on by Black Lives Matter Minnesota. 2:12:47.120 --> 2:12:50.760 Yeah, that's also particularly well given like we've been driving 2:12:50.760 --> 2:12:54.160 around today and seen multiple churches with like ice go 2:12:54.320 --> 2:12:58.360 home kind of messaging. Obviously those people are not going 2:12:58.400 --> 2:13:00.280 to be protected in the same way, right if they 2:13:00.360 --> 2:13:02.760 choose to take care of migrants, Like I don't think 2:13:02.760 --> 2:13:05.919 I've seen any churches with like anything other than that messaging. 2:13:05.960 --> 2:13:08.240 And in time cruising around today, I. 2:13:08.160 --> 2:13:12.760 Haven't seen any pro ice messaging anywhere, any pro Trump 2:13:12.760 --> 2:13:17.000 messaging period. I have never seen a more united this 2:13:17.120 --> 2:13:18.839 city in my life. 2:13:19.080 --> 2:13:23.240 Yeah, it's genuinely remarkable, like to see people who's I 2:13:23.240 --> 2:13:26.000 don't think they would like identify as having radical politics, 2:13:26.400 --> 2:13:28.960 but they are like out standing on street corners in 2:13:29.000 --> 2:13:32.600 the freezing cold just to try and keep their neighborhoods safe. 2:13:32.760 --> 2:13:34.680 Yeah, this is the this is the warmer day of 2:13:34.720 --> 2:13:36.440 the week. And I went and got all this like 2:13:36.520 --> 2:13:39.960 extra snow gear, and I live in the mountains, right 2:13:40.040 --> 2:13:42.440 that is like where I live, and I'm standing there 2:13:42.480 --> 2:13:45.200 in most of my extra snow gear and everyone's like, 2:13:45.400 --> 2:13:48.800 today's the warm day. Everything's fine, and I'm like I 2:13:48.840 --> 2:13:49.960 need to get inside soon. 2:13:50.720 --> 2:13:53.839 Oh yeah, I will die. Welcome to walk to Minnesota. 2:13:53.880 --> 2:13:55.160 Winters die. 2:13:55.160 --> 2:13:57.680 We're talking to a seventy six year old with no 2:13:57.800 --> 2:13:58.120 hat on. 2:13:58.400 --> 2:14:04.800 Yeah, degree is incredible, warmed by pure anger. I mean, 2:14:04.800 --> 2:14:08.520 that is warm, but she was ready to take on 2:14:08.560 --> 2:14:11.280 the world. It was really Yeah, it's genuinely really wonderful 2:14:11.320 --> 2:14:12.760 to see Like we went out, we talked to these 2:14:12.760 --> 2:14:15.520 people for a while, some folks stop by and it's 2:14:15.600 --> 2:14:20.040 just feeding everyone. It's really nice to see a community 2:14:20.120 --> 2:14:23.680 like entirely in lockstep taking care of one another. 2:14:24.280 --> 2:14:26.120 And I feel like, to me so far, like the 2:14:26.160 --> 2:14:30.560 actual headline around Minneapolis is that, like, obviously there's like 2:14:30.600 --> 2:14:34.920 these instances of really horrific violence coming from the state 2:14:35.040 --> 2:14:38.200 or coming from the federal government, right, But the actual 2:14:39.120 --> 2:14:41.640 story that so far, the people we've talked to want 2:14:41.880 --> 2:14:45.000 to get across is this. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, 2:14:45.040 --> 2:14:46.560 journalists come here and just want to cover all the 2:14:46.600 --> 2:14:51.760 bad stuff that's happened here. But this horizontal organizing and 2:14:51.800 --> 2:14:55.960 this like feeling of togetherness and also more than anything else, 2:14:56.040 --> 2:14:58.080 like I think even when you talk about the bad 2:14:58.120 --> 2:15:01.800 thing that's happening, it's federal occupation, right, and like people 2:15:01.840 --> 2:15:04.560 are very very aware of the fact that this is 2:15:04.600 --> 2:15:09.800 an outside force occupying the city and it and so 2:15:09.920 --> 2:15:13.320 even like anything that's happening, like individual bad actions taken 2:15:13.360 --> 2:15:15.800 by the federal police, I think it needs to be 2:15:15.880 --> 2:15:18.880 understood that, like, no one here is buying any other 2:15:19.000 --> 2:15:23.320 line besides, no, this outside force is here to steal 2:15:23.320 --> 2:15:25.839 our neighbors, right and us. 2:15:26.960 --> 2:15:31.200 You'll go past like fancy coffee shops and random like 2:15:30.880 --> 2:15:34.040 like businesses, like I've seen businesses before having signs that 2:15:34.080 --> 2:15:37.000 say like refugees welcome and we cherishow migrant neighbors. But 2:15:37.200 --> 2:15:38.920 the ones here will also say like Ice get out 2:15:38.960 --> 2:15:40.840 of town, Ice, go home. We don't want you here, 2:15:41.040 --> 2:15:44.960 Like people like yeah, yeah, yeah, Like people are not 2:15:45.440 --> 2:15:48.120 having it to a degree, which like I don't think 2:15:48.160 --> 2:15:51.040 I've seen that. You know, I wasn't in Chicago during 2:15:51.080 --> 2:15:53.200 the time that Ice was there, was in Los Angeles. 2:15:53.720 --> 2:15:58.720 But like every neighborhood here feels like the neighborhoods sort 2:15:58.720 --> 2:16:02.000 of most in lockstep in those cities, right, every neighborhood 2:16:02.000 --> 2:16:05.240 we've been to, right, like in heavily Latino neighborhoods where 2:16:05.240 --> 2:16:07.960 I live. Yeah, everyone's watching out for each other. Meant 2:16:08.000 --> 2:16:10.400 in San Diego that is, but like here and every 2:16:10.480 --> 2:16:12.920 single neighborhood, everyone is watching out for each other from 2:16:12.960 --> 2:16:17.280 what we've seen, And like it is folks of every 2:16:17.480 --> 2:16:21.600 age and demographic standing on street corners in the freezing cold, 2:16:22.000 --> 2:16:24.160 just pulling a shift to keep an eye out. 2:16:24.280 --> 2:16:25.120 It's remarkable. 2:16:25.720 --> 2:16:25.880 Yeah. 2:16:25.920 --> 2:16:28.000 I was like, there's no way. People are like, oh, 2:16:28.080 --> 2:16:30.280 every neighborhood has like a neighborhood watch, and I'm like, yeah, 2:16:30.320 --> 2:16:33.040 I don't know. There's like two people per neighborhood wandering 2:16:33.120 --> 2:16:35.280 at any given time. Like I was like, how can 2:16:35.320 --> 2:16:37.360 you watch a whole city? And like, oh, the answer 2:16:37.480 --> 2:16:38.760 is everyone in the city does it. 2:16:39.560 --> 2:16:40.199 Yeah. 2:16:40.360 --> 2:16:42.600 That's the story that I want people to take from this, 2:16:42.760 --> 2:16:47.440 is that like nobody here wants this, and they're not 2:16:47.600 --> 2:16:50.320 just like angry and going on the internet. They're angry 2:16:50.360 --> 2:16:53.760 and getting to know their neighbors, going and organizing each other, 2:16:53.920 --> 2:16:56.600 taking care of one another, and doing the things that 2:16:57.200 --> 2:16:58.960 they can do to keep each other safe. 2:17:00.240 --> 2:17:03.920 During Trump's three hundred and sixty five days in office 2:17:03.959 --> 2:17:07.800 press conference this past Tuesday, he discussed the killing of 2:17:07.879 --> 2:17:12.400 Renee Good and expressed hope that Good's parents would continue 2:17:12.440 --> 2:17:14.279 to support President Trump. 2:17:15.360 --> 2:17:17.279 Let's watch amazing. 2:17:17.560 --> 2:17:19.959 Yeah, come damn, I haven't seen it. 2:17:20.320 --> 2:17:23.959 Well you are unlucky enough to see it now. 2:17:24.080 --> 2:17:25.520 No, we'll do it live. 2:17:26.200 --> 2:17:27.960 It's gross, it's weird. 2:17:28.080 --> 2:17:30.400 Garson'spootingaupex dot com the everything website. 2:17:32.640 --> 2:17:34.400 And you know they're going to make mistakes. 2:17:34.400 --> 2:17:36.720 Sometimes Ice is going to be too rough with somebody, 2:17:36.879 --> 2:17:38.680 or you know they're dealing with rough people. 2:17:39.320 --> 2:17:41.800 Are they going to make a mistake? Sometimes it can happen. 2:17:41.879 --> 2:17:47.119 We feel terribly. I felt horribly. 2:17:46.720 --> 2:17:50.280 When I was told that the young woman who was 2:17:51.640 --> 2:17:54.560 I had the tragedy. It's a tragedy. It's a horrible thing. 2:17:54.600 --> 2:17:57.800 Everybody would say. Ice would say the same thing. But 2:17:58.680 --> 2:18:03.160 when I learned her parents, and her father in particular, 2:18:03.280 --> 2:18:05.840 is like, I hope he still is, but I don't know. 2:18:06.640 --> 2:18:10.160 It was a tremendous Trump fan. He was all for Trump. 2:18:10.240 --> 2:18:15.560 I loved Trump, and uh, you know, it's terrible. I 2:18:15.840 --> 2:18:18.720 was told that by a lot of people. They said, oh, 2:18:18.760 --> 2:18:20.680 he loves you, he he was. 2:18:21.000 --> 2:18:21.480 I hoped. 2:18:21.760 --> 2:18:24.040 I hope he still feels that way or that's hard, 2:18:24.400 --> 2:18:28.119 hard situation. But her father was a tremendous and parents 2:18:28.640 --> 2:18:30.600 were tremendous Trump fans. 2:18:31.720 --> 2:18:34.520 That's so sad it just happens. It's terrible. 2:18:35.800 --> 2:18:37.920 What is there even to say? You know, what do you? 2:18:38.320 --> 2:18:43.160 How do you the fuck? Yeah, it's it's interesting that 2:18:43.240 --> 2:18:47.199 he's he seems to be capable of, like legitimately being 2:18:47.280 --> 2:18:49.160 upset at the thought of one of his fans not 2:18:49.240 --> 2:18:52.680 liking him anymore. Yeah, Like that's weird the fact that 2:18:52.720 --> 2:18:54.200 he like he brings it up in a way that 2:18:54.280 --> 2:18:58.400 suggests like there's no artifice there, right, Yeah, like that 2:18:58.400 --> 2:19:01.959 that's the genuineness of like, oh, he actually seems to 2:19:01.959 --> 2:19:04.200 be slightly disturbed at the thought of one of his 2:19:04.240 --> 2:19:07.720 fans no longer liking him, even though his secret police 2:19:07.800 --> 2:19:13.000 murdered that guy's daughter. That's fascinating. It doesn't change anything, Like, 2:19:13.000 --> 2:19:14.960 I don't know, there's nothing to do with that information, 2:19:15.640 --> 2:19:21.439 but it's a fascinating understanding Donald Trump's mind data point. Yeah. 2:19:21.640 --> 2:19:23.560 No, it is one of the weird things where you 2:19:23.720 --> 2:19:26.440 kind of see him be sincere and genuine briefly, but 2:19:26.440 --> 2:19:28.560 it's for such a fucking weird thing. 2:19:28.920 --> 2:19:29.200 Weird. 2:19:29.360 --> 2:19:33.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah, like he understands that You're like, well, 2:19:33.879 --> 2:19:36.480 you know, maybe maybe he doesn't like me anymore, but 2:19:36.879 --> 2:19:37.520 I hope he does. 2:19:37.600 --> 2:19:40.000 Yeah, this would be a reason to change his opinion 2:19:40.040 --> 2:19:41.840 of me. But yeah, I. 2:19:41.920 --> 2:19:42.959 Murdered his child. 2:19:43.400 --> 2:19:47.360 Yeah yeah, I don't know what else to say about that. 2:19:48.120 --> 2:19:50.119 Yeah I didn't either. 2:19:51.120 --> 2:19:53.320 So part of the whole reason why ICE is doing 2:19:53.440 --> 2:19:59.000 this operation in Minnesota, Operation Metro Surge. This was started 2:19:59.160 --> 2:20:02.119 in part due to allegations of COVID relief of fraud 2:20:02.200 --> 2:20:07.080 among the Somali community in Minnesota. ICE Dirrector Todd LLINs 2:20:07.240 --> 2:20:09.760 went on Fox News earlier this month in the lead 2:20:09.840 --> 2:20:12.640 up to ICE's mass deployment to address this. 2:20:13.200 --> 2:20:15.640 You know, one thing we're really focused on is the 2:20:15.680 --> 2:20:20.039 fact that unfortunately, with Minnesota's sanctuary laws and jurisdictions, it 2:20:20.080 --> 2:20:21.640 attracts these type of frousts. 2:20:21.959 --> 2:20:24.080 It attracts people that do take. 2:20:23.920 --> 2:20:26.240 Money away from the hard working Americans in the people 2:20:26.240 --> 2:20:29.920 of Minnesota. We want to help root out these people 2:20:29.920 --> 2:20:31.959 that are committing fraud. And you look at the billions 2:20:32.000 --> 2:20:34.440 of dollars that potentially could have been stolen, that could 2:20:34.440 --> 2:20:37.560 have gone to foreign terrorist organizations that we're really focused on. 2:20:37.840 --> 2:20:39.280 So we're hoping to get to the bottom of that. 2:20:40.280 --> 2:20:43.160 So as ICE is currently hoping to get to the 2:20:43.200 --> 2:20:48.080 bottom of this fraud problem in Minnesota. Just this past week, 2:20:48.200 --> 2:20:52.760 Trump has pardoned at least eleven white collar fraudsters. 2:20:53.600 --> 2:20:55.280 I think we can all agree the biggest problem with 2:20:55.320 --> 2:20:58.920 that clip was the type oe in ice at the 2:20:58.959 --> 2:21:02.480 bottom where they Fox News didn't put the period after 2:21:02.520 --> 2:21:04.560 the E in ice, but they put the period after 2:21:04.560 --> 2:21:06.840 the I in the sea. I think we can all agree. 2:21:07.400 --> 2:21:11.879 Yeah, get on it, Todd. Actually, uh, Fox News is 2:21:11.360 --> 2:21:14.720 hiring is hiring a graphic design position in New York 2:21:14.760 --> 2:21:16.680 right now. So if you want to apply to fix 2:21:16.840 --> 2:21:18.960 the graphics, see you later, losers. 2:21:19.680 --> 2:21:23.520 Yeah, can you use Chad Gpt They probably did. 2:21:23.640 --> 2:21:24.480 Here's a job for you. 2:21:25.280 --> 2:21:26.320 Yeah. 2:21:26.440 --> 2:21:28.920 Let's go on break and then talk about as Trump 2:21:28.959 --> 2:21:30.360 calls it, Iceland. 2:21:30.640 --> 2:21:49.039 Jesus and we're back. First off, if you need to 2:21:49.040 --> 2:21:52.840 tell the difference between Greenland and Iceland, just remember the 2:21:53.080 --> 2:21:55.280 words of wisdom from either the first or the second 2:21:55.360 --> 2:22:01.080 Mighty Ducks movie. Right, quack quack Greenland is and Iceland 2:22:01.120 --> 2:22:03.640 is nice? Is the is the way to remember the two? 2:22:03.800 --> 2:22:06.080 Well, he can't spell nice without ice, Robert. 2:22:06.000 --> 2:22:09.200 That's rights in Iceland. Yeah, Yeah, that's that's how you 2:22:09.240 --> 2:22:11.040 tell the difference. That's a little that's a little tip 2:22:11.080 --> 2:22:14.080 for the president and everyone else, I guess trying to remember. 2:22:14.120 --> 2:22:17.040 That's probably that's how I've known the difference my entire life, 2:22:17.080 --> 2:22:19.600 and it's almost certainly because of watching The Mighty Ducks and. 2:22:19.600 --> 2:22:24.199 The Mighty Ducks. Yeah, exactly, exactly the Mighty Ducks films. Sorry, yeah, 2:22:24.280 --> 2:22:27.520 shout out to my Iceland friends. I enjoyed Iceland very much. 2:22:27.680 --> 2:22:30.280 Shout out to whoever made the Mighty Ducks. Yeah, I know, 2:22:30.360 --> 2:22:33.000 the knowledge of the creation has been lost in time. 2:22:33.480 --> 2:22:35.800 It was actually the whole thing was actually a propaganda 2:22:35.800 --> 2:22:39.000 film by the Iceland tourist industry, a little known in fact. 2:22:39.280 --> 2:22:42.680 That's right, big Iceland. We are reporting this on the 2:22:42.760 --> 2:22:45.880 day that it looks like Donald Trump may have just blinked. 2:22:46.080 --> 2:22:50.960 He put up a truth announcing that he had reached 2:22:51.280 --> 2:22:54.440 an arrangement with NATO and that tariffs would not be 2:22:54.560 --> 2:22:58.320 necessary against all of Western Europe. Basically, it's kind of 2:22:58.400 --> 2:23:02.480 unclear the details of the deal. He's saying that it's 2:23:02.560 --> 2:23:06.440 a big, permanent thing. The US has sorted out its 2:23:06.480 --> 2:23:10.080 security needs. Doesn't seem like we're going to be invading Greenland. 2:23:10.160 --> 2:23:12.440 But you know, it's also Donald Trump, So we could 2:23:12.440 --> 2:23:14.840 be in a very different position tomorrow. But that's kind 2:23:14.840 --> 2:23:16.600 of the big update right now. 2:23:16.840 --> 2:23:18.720 Yeah, let's talk about kind of the lead up to 2:23:18.800 --> 2:23:23.520 this ye moment. I suppose sure, multiple EU nations and 2:23:23.600 --> 2:23:27.920 Denmark have sent troops to Greenland the past two weeks 2:23:28.360 --> 2:23:32.680 for the Arctic Endurance military exercise aimed at countering Russian 2:23:32.720 --> 2:23:36.800 security threats and to demonstrate that European NATO countries have 2:23:36.840 --> 2:23:41.200 the capacity to defend Arctic territory without the US needing 2:23:41.240 --> 2:23:44.960 control over Greenland. Now, Trump took this military deployment as 2:23:45.000 --> 2:23:49.080 a personal slight and levied tariffs in retaliation, posting on 2:23:49.200 --> 2:23:53.280 true social quote. Denmark, Norway, Sweden, France, Germany, the United Kingdom, 2:23:53.360 --> 2:23:58.039 the Netherlands and Finland have journeyed to Greenland for purposes unknown. 2:23:58.520 --> 2:24:01.600 This is a very dangerous situation for the safety, security 2:24:01.640 --> 2:24:05.879 and survival of our planet. Those countries who are playing 2:24:06.000 --> 2:24:09.600 this very dangerous game have put a level of risk 2:24:09.720 --> 2:24:13.440 in play that is not tenable or sustainable. Therefore, it 2:24:13.520 --> 2:24:17.680 is imperative that, in order to protect global peace and security, 2:24:18.040 --> 2:24:21.959 strong measures be taken so that this potentially perilous situation 2:24:22.320 --> 2:24:26.680 and quickly and without question unquote. He then announced ten 2:24:26.720 --> 2:24:30.440 percent tariffs against all of these nations, which would increase 2:24:30.480 --> 2:24:32.480 to twenty five percent next month. 2:24:33.160 --> 2:24:37.440 Yeah, I guess my gut feeling is, you know, to reef, 2:24:37.640 --> 2:24:41.320 you know, like it. But beyond that, this is kind 2:24:41.360 --> 2:24:45.600 of just what Trump does now, right, is he threatens 2:24:45.680 --> 2:24:48.920 everyone with like whatever the nuclear option is, short of 2:24:48.959 --> 2:24:51.480 the literal nuclear option, which in this case is nuking 2:24:51.560 --> 2:24:54.360 global trade. And then it kind of blows up in 2:24:54.360 --> 2:24:57.320 his face because the EU actually has the ability to 2:24:57.600 --> 2:25:01.280 collapse the dollar status as a reserve currency, and the 2:25:01.360 --> 2:25:03.160 money awardens of the world are aware of that, which 2:25:03.200 --> 2:25:05.880 is why the draft Dow plunged eight hundred points yesterday 2:25:06.480 --> 2:25:09.440 and probably why Trump felt pressured to come to an 2:25:09.480 --> 2:25:13.080 accommodation with NATO. I don't know that he ever literally 2:25:13.080 --> 2:25:15.000 planned on invading, although at this point I think you 2:25:15.080 --> 2:25:18.000 can't take that out of the equation. But like, this 2:25:18.120 --> 2:25:21.280 is just what he does now, right, Like none of 2:25:21.280 --> 2:25:24.920 this is like it's wild because he might have literally 2:25:25.080 --> 2:25:29.440 bombed a fucking NATO member. But I don't know what 2:25:29.520 --> 2:25:30.400 to say other than. 2:25:30.240 --> 2:25:33.240 That, Yeah, I can I can explain a little bit 2:25:33.240 --> 2:25:37.119 more about the unhidden series of messages that Donald Trump 2:25:37.200 --> 2:25:41.560 has been sending to various world leaders. God, we know 2:25:41.600 --> 2:25:44.920 about these because they have all been released. 2:25:44.600 --> 2:25:47.400 Right, fantastic from Planetary Security. 2:25:47.640 --> 2:25:49.800 Yeah, thing is Fred's text? 2:25:50.080 --> 2:25:54.600 Well not just that, right, the Norwegians released the text 2:25:55.080 --> 2:25:58.160 that was sent by him to Norwegian Prime minister. Right, 2:25:58.400 --> 2:26:01.640 like the Norwegians, they're not normally like an impulsive nation. 2:26:01.959 --> 2:26:04.160 That's not what people know the Norwegians for now. 2:26:04.600 --> 2:26:08.320 No, they don't make big swings on the international scale 2:26:08.720 --> 2:26:11.000 very much, but they have done this time. So I'm 2:26:11.000 --> 2:26:13.359 just going to quote write from his message to Norwegian 2:26:13.600 --> 2:26:17.480 Prime minister quote, considering your country decided not to give 2:26:17.480 --> 2:26:20.080 me the Nobel Peace Prize for having stopped eight wars 2:26:20.120 --> 2:26:23.560 plus pluses all in caps, I no longer feel an 2:26:23.560 --> 2:26:26.400 obligation to think purely of peace, although it will always 2:26:26.400 --> 2:26:28.920 be predominant, but can now think about what is good 2:26:28.959 --> 2:26:33.199 and proper for the United States of America. Then Trump 2:26:33.520 --> 2:26:37.440 released text from Mark Rutter, the NATO Secretary General, that 2:26:37.920 --> 2:26:41.680 read quote, mister President, dear Donald, what you accomplished in 2:26:41.680 --> 2:26:45.080 Syria today is incredible. We will get onto that. Return 2:26:45.120 --> 2:26:47.120 to the quote, I will use my media engagement to 2:26:47.200 --> 2:26:50.120 Davos to highlight your work there in Gaza and in Ukraine. 2:26:50.600 --> 2:26:53.160 I am committed to finding a way forward on Greenland. 2:26:53.320 --> 2:26:56.199 Can't wait to see you. Do you have the French 2:26:56.280 --> 2:27:00.440 text as well? It's a French text. 2:26:59.640 --> 2:27:00.039 I do. 2:27:00.600 --> 2:27:02.960 I don't have it in here, but yes, the Macran 2:27:03.040 --> 2:27:05.320 text message I'm more than happy to read because that 2:27:05.320 --> 2:27:09.120 one was pretty funny. Actually, so we are totally in 2:27:09.120 --> 2:27:12.440 line on Syria. We can do great things in Iran. Interestingly, 2:27:12.480 --> 2:27:15.279 none of these sentences end with any punctuation. No punctuation, 2:27:15.520 --> 2:27:17.840 no punctuation Macran rejoicing. 2:27:17.920 --> 2:27:21.720 It not helpful, so I'll just read them in one 2:27:21.800 --> 2:27:22.760 continuous breath. 2:27:23.600 --> 2:27:25.680 I do not understand what you're doing on Greenland. Let 2:27:25.720 --> 2:27:29.840 us try to build great things one lowercase. I can 2:27:29.920 --> 2:27:33.199 set up a G seven lowercase G meeting after Davos 2:27:33.280 --> 2:27:36.640 in Paris on Thursday afternoon. I can invite the Ukrainians 2:27:36.640 --> 2:27:39.360 to Danish Assyrians and the Russians in the margins. 2:27:39.640 --> 2:27:39.879 Two. 2:27:40.240 --> 2:27:42.280 Let us have a dinner together in Paris together on 2:27:42.400 --> 2:27:45.720 Thursday before you go back to the US. I manuel 2:27:46.000 --> 2:27:48.400 lots of flowercase in there. Actually, none of the countries 2:27:48.440 --> 2:27:49.240 getting up a case. 2:27:49.600 --> 2:27:52.680 Imagine setting your situationship this text and then he just 2:27:52.720 --> 2:27:55.959 posts it on true social Yeah, it's so violated. 2:27:56.000 --> 2:27:58.000 Well, that's what's so weird to me is that this 2:27:58.160 --> 2:28:00.920 is almost word for word the text. I say, James, 2:28:03.959 --> 2:28:04.640 it's true. 2:28:05.400 --> 2:28:07.720 I've posted it on a new website. 2:28:09.879 --> 2:28:13.160 I do not understand what you were doing on Greenlands. 2:28:13.240 --> 2:28:13.640 Yeah. 2:28:14.080 --> 2:28:17.800 I love that sentence, just floating on its own, like 2:28:17.920 --> 2:28:19.519 it's it's magnificent. 2:28:19.600 --> 2:28:23.160 It's magnificent. And it's also like, yeah, that is basically 2:28:23.160 --> 2:28:25.080 everyone feels like, man, I don't know what you're doing 2:28:25.120 --> 2:28:28.000 on Greenlands, Like what is actually happening here? 2:28:28.320 --> 2:28:29.800 I mean, what do you do when like there's a 2:28:29.840 --> 2:28:32.720 petulant child who also has a handgun or a nuke, 2:28:32.879 --> 2:28:35.039 you know, and you're just like shut up kid, Oh 2:28:35.080 --> 2:28:37.720 wait no, you could shoot me. Uh no, it's time 2:28:37.760 --> 2:28:38.520 for nap. 2:28:38.800 --> 2:28:40.920 Yeah. This is why I have, like you know how 2:28:41.040 --> 2:28:43.840 hotels have those like little sprinklers in the roof. I've 2:28:43.840 --> 2:28:47.240 got one of those just for cs gas. Yeah, yeah, 2:28:47.320 --> 2:28:49.160 just to keep just to clear out the house in case, 2:28:49.360 --> 2:28:52.000 you know, you gotta calm everybody down. That's what we 2:28:52.040 --> 2:28:55.200 need for the country. Yeah, we only need little holiday. 2:28:55.640 --> 2:28:59.320 Let's talk about Greenland, right, Greenland's a semi autonomous territory 2:28:59.320 --> 2:29:02.279 of denmarkt as a colony, and then over the twentieth 2:29:02.320 --> 2:29:06.360 century Greenlanders became Danish citizens and now they have like 2:29:06.400 --> 2:29:09.119 the semi autonomous situation where that they have a lot 2:29:09.160 --> 2:29:13.160 of home rule, but they are still part of Denmark. Denmark, 2:29:13.160 --> 2:29:15.279 of course, is part of the EU and of NATO, 2:29:15.440 --> 2:29:17.680 so therefore they are part of the EU and part 2:29:17.720 --> 2:29:18.240 of NATO. 2:29:18.360 --> 2:29:18.600 Right. 2:29:19.120 --> 2:29:22.200 As we said earlier, Germany, France, Sweden, Norway, finn and 2:29:22.240 --> 2:29:25.039 the Netherlands and the UK have also very small numbers 2:29:25.080 --> 2:29:27.400 of troops to the territory in the past couple of weeks. 2:29:28.080 --> 2:29:31.320 But the US is the one that has the most 2:29:31.320 --> 2:29:33.880 troops on Denmark, right, because the United States has a base, 2:29:33.920 --> 2:29:36.280 so they've kept this base that since World War Two. 2:29:36.480 --> 2:29:38.959 It was there in World War two because the Nazis 2:29:39.000 --> 2:29:43.520 occupied Denmark, right, and then the United States garrison Greenland 2:29:43.800 --> 2:29:46.160 because it does have like they're not wrong in saying 2:29:46.160 --> 2:29:49.879 it has an important strategic position right where it is now, it's. 2:29:49.600 --> 2:29:52.680 Really well located. And the reality of again this is 2:29:52.680 --> 2:29:57.240 another mark in the column of like conservatives pretending climate 2:29:57.320 --> 2:29:59.640 change isn't real and acting based on the realities of 2:29:59.680 --> 2:30:03.120 climate change. Because of the warming oceans in that part 2:30:03.160 --> 2:30:05.760 of the world, it's going to become much more navigable. 2:30:05.800 --> 2:30:08.440 It used to not be as strategic because there was 2:30:08.840 --> 2:30:12.119 just less possibility of moving naval assets through the area. 2:30:12.640 --> 2:30:15.279 And now that that's not going to be a problem 2:30:15.320 --> 2:30:17.560 because the world's warming and there's going to be less 2:30:17.560 --> 2:30:21.359 ice there, Greenland has much more much higher like strategic 2:30:21.440 --> 2:30:24.879 value just in terms of like as a place to 2:30:25.200 --> 2:30:26.920 have as a potential naval joke point. 2:30:27.000 --> 2:30:28.800 Right, Yeah, are you saying that the people who named 2:30:28.840 --> 2:30:31.560 it were actually being prescient ahead of the curve. 2:30:31.920 --> 2:30:33.680 Yeah, Yeah, they were ahead of the curve. They weren't 2:30:33.720 --> 2:30:35.840 just trying to stop people from coming to Iceland. They 2:30:35.879 --> 2:30:36.959 foresaw it in the ruins. 2:30:38.000 --> 2:30:40.760 So the US you speak, called Tula Air Force Base, 2:30:41.080 --> 2:30:45.039 and essentially the US has the right according to Defense 2:30:45.080 --> 2:30:49.640 Treaty creates Greenland to use Greenland to defend itself and 2:30:49.680 --> 2:30:50.840 to defend the Arctic. 2:30:51.000 --> 2:30:51.160 Right. 2:30:51.520 --> 2:30:53.760 So what they previously had that during they kept the 2:30:53.760 --> 2:30:55.840 base during the Cold War because it was where they 2:30:55.879 --> 2:30:58.280 would be able to identify missile launches coming from the 2:30:58.320 --> 2:30:59.280 former Soviet Union? 2:30:59.720 --> 2:31:00.960 Was it time the Soviet Union? 2:31:01.040 --> 2:31:01.200 Right? 2:31:01.800 --> 2:31:04.200 And then they could intercept from from there with their 2:31:04.240 --> 2:31:07.240 air Force base. They now it is now a space 2:31:07.320 --> 2:31:11.840 Force space. Yeah, it's now the Petrifix Spaceport Space. 2:31:11.920 --> 2:31:13.320 Yeah. 2:31:13.360 --> 2:31:16.360 And the US can expand or garrison this base as 2:31:16.400 --> 2:31:20.119 it needs to write, like the majority of Greenland, it's 2:31:20.200 --> 2:31:23.680 all occupied, right, but it is not like I guess, 2:31:23.879 --> 2:31:25.280 urbanized or built upon. 2:31:25.400 --> 2:31:25.520 Right. 2:31:25.560 --> 2:31:27.480 The US could expand this base, it could add more 2:31:27.480 --> 2:31:30.520 assets to this base, but the United States has decided 2:31:30.600 --> 2:31:33.720 that it's not enough and that it needs total sovereignty 2:31:33.800 --> 2:31:36.560 over Greenland. So there are a few ways it could 2:31:36.600 --> 2:31:39.480 achieve that, and we should just be explicit about those, right. 2:31:39.560 --> 2:31:43.840 The first is obviously by direct military action. That still 2:31:43.879 --> 2:31:46.840 seems relatively unlikely, but who knows these days. 2:31:46.840 --> 2:31:47.360 Hopefully. 2:31:47.760 --> 2:31:52.039 Yeah, there is an influence campaign that they're trying, right, 2:31:52.040 --> 2:31:55.800 that they're attempting to influence Greenlanders into wanting to become American. 2:31:56.360 --> 2:31:59.160 The polling data I have shown so that Greenlanders do 2:31:59.280 --> 2:32:02.760 favor in the hindants. But yeah, they do not favor 2:32:03.000 --> 2:32:06.119 joining the United States. They wouldn't mind leaving Denmark, and. 2:32:06.120 --> 2:32:09.760 Also overwhelmingly when presented with a choice between the United 2:32:09.800 --> 2:32:12.640 States or Denmark, would prefer to remain part of death. 2:32:12.680 --> 2:32:16.880 Yeah, yeah, that situation right now, it's one that like 2:32:17.320 --> 2:32:18.920 they don't want to go out the frying pan into 2:32:18.920 --> 2:32:19.800 the fire, so to speak. 2:32:19.840 --> 2:32:22.440 I guess yeah, for reasons that make no sense to 2:32:22.480 --> 2:32:24.720 me as I text my friend about the doctor visit 2:32:24.800 --> 2:32:25.959 they can't afford. 2:32:26.320 --> 2:32:29.000 Yeah, Like it's interesting seeming as interviews where they're like, 2:32:29.000 --> 2:32:30.760 why would we want that? We've seen what you people 2:32:30.800 --> 2:32:31.480 have for healthcare? 2:32:32.000 --> 2:32:35.359 Yeah, what sucks? What is the appeal of being America? 2:32:36.000 --> 2:32:38.920 If Denmark has any spaces, California you know will join you. 2:32:39.640 --> 2:32:42.880 So yeah, the other option will be to purchase it, right, 2:32:42.959 --> 2:32:45.480 which is not on the card. It's like Greenland is 2:32:45.560 --> 2:32:48.680 not for sale. So yeah, me, do you want to 2:32:48.680 --> 2:32:51.840 talk about this this tariff campaign they've been suggesting that 2:32:51.840 --> 2:32:52.760 they're going to leverage. 2:32:53.040 --> 2:32:58.480 Wait a second, what's that, James? Did you say? 2:33:00.560 --> 2:33:07.199 Jazz rocky jazz, bot. 2:33:07.360 --> 2:33:10.640 Rock, jazz rocky jazz. 2:33:10.400 --> 2:33:10.879 Bob. 2:33:12.640 --> 2:33:15.000 By God, it's Mia Wong's music. 2:33:15.240 --> 2:33:16.960 Yeah, I bet you would have picked that. 2:33:18.480 --> 2:33:20.840 We asked me what she wanted. She wrote it so made. 2:33:20.920 --> 2:33:22.760 She went into a room, she wrote down music notes 2:33:22.760 --> 2:33:24.280 on a piece of paper, and she came out with 2:33:24.320 --> 2:33:24.840 something that. 2:33:25.120 --> 2:33:26.520 Turned out somebody else had done it before. 2:33:27.600 --> 2:33:29.760 Well we couldn't. We couldn't licensed Barracuda. So this is 2:33:29.840 --> 2:33:31.039 this is this is what we got. 2:33:31.879 --> 2:33:34.080 That we actually were not trying to make a parody. 2:33:34.080 --> 2:33:35.720 This is one of those things like the evolution of 2:33:35.760 --> 2:33:38.280 the bow and arrow. We just kind of independently recreated 2:33:38.360 --> 2:33:41.400 rock the kasba, but based around tariffs from fresh principles. 2:33:41.600 --> 2:33:43.160 That's the carsonization of songs. 2:33:43.280 --> 2:33:46.600 That's right, carsonalization of songs. All music becomes rock the 2:33:46.680 --> 2:33:49.119 kasvo if you if you had given it up, give. 2:33:48.959 --> 2:33:51.560 It long enough on the Galapagos Islands. That's what we 2:33:51.560 --> 2:33:52.920 sent me here to write a song on. She was 2:33:52.959 --> 2:33:54.320 on the Glapica Islands for a long time. 2:33:54.840 --> 2:33:57.920 That's right, very nice there, so so speaker speaking of 2:33:57.959 --> 2:34:02.840 things changing very very quickly. So two days ago, as 2:34:02.920 --> 2:34:06.280 we are recording this, Trump was interviewed about these terrorists 2:34:06.280 --> 2:34:08.760 he was going to impose by I think it was NBC, 2:34:08.959 --> 2:34:12.879 and he said, quote, I will one hundred percent. It 2:34:12.959 --> 2:34:16.560 is now Wednesday, and he has backed off of the tariffs. 2:34:17.480 --> 2:34:21.119 Tomorrow truly another day, who knows. 2:34:21.560 --> 2:34:24.720 Who knows. I think it's kind of worth noting as 2:34:24.760 --> 2:34:27.440 of right now when we're recording this. Everyone is kind 2:34:27.440 --> 2:34:30.120 of treating this as if this is over. But except 2:34:30.160 --> 2:34:33.440 for the German finance minister who said, quote, it's good 2:34:33.440 --> 2:34:35.800 they are engaged in dialogue. We have to wait a 2:34:35.800 --> 2:34:38.320 bit and not get our hopes up so soon. Yeah, 2:34:38.320 --> 2:34:42.280 which is significant. That's that's the smart play too. Yeah. Yeah. 2:34:42.320 --> 2:34:44.879 And this is significant because Germany, as we'll get you 2:34:44.920 --> 2:34:47.120 in a second, Germany has been one of the major 2:34:48.160 --> 2:34:51.480 EU countries that does not want to deploy what is 2:34:51.520 --> 2:34:53.800 being called and I can't believe I'm saying this, the 2:34:53.879 --> 2:34:58.920 trade bazuka. So it's called the every single to go 2:34:59.040 --> 2:35:01.760 today it is called what is the trade bazuka? 2:35:01.879 --> 2:35:04.400 It's okay, we're all asking ourselves that, aren't. 2:35:04.200 --> 2:35:07.800 We I okay. So before we get to the trade 2:35:07.800 --> 2:35:10.600 of bazuka, it's worth noting that in terms of the 2:35:10.640 --> 2:35:13.960 retaliation that has been being planned by the EU against 2:35:14.000 --> 2:35:15.959 the US for trying to do this, there's actually two 2:35:15.959 --> 2:35:19.920 different things on the table. One is a package of 2:35:20.000 --> 2:35:22.320 tariffs that we've actually talked about before on this show. 2:35:22.360 --> 2:35:24.840 That was the package of tariffs that EU developed as 2:35:24.920 --> 2:35:27.640 part of the trade negotiations. Well, basically it was developed 2:35:27.920 --> 2:35:31.000 in response to Liberation Day tariffs last year. They'd been 2:35:31.040 --> 2:35:33.840 suspended as part of trade negotiations with the US, and 2:35:33.879 --> 2:35:36.880 the US and the EU had finally reached an agreement, 2:35:38.000 --> 2:35:40.360 and then Trump said this and the EU backed out. 2:35:40.760 --> 2:35:44.240 So who knows what the tariff's status is going to 2:35:44.280 --> 2:35:46.280 be and if the EU and the US are going 2:35:46.280 --> 2:35:48.760 to continue to have come to this agreement that was 2:35:48.760 --> 2:35:52.320 supposed to stave these things. So these retaliatory terrorists were 2:35:52.320 --> 2:35:55.240 supposed to go into effect on February seventh. We had 2:35:55.720 --> 2:36:00.200 just negotiated it not coming in. These are there are 2:36:00.200 --> 2:36:03.080 a bunch of targeted tariffs on a bunch of US 2:36:03.160 --> 2:36:05.520 goods that are specifically designed to hit red States. The 2:36:05.600 --> 2:36:07.720 most famous of these is, for example, there's there's specific 2:36:07.760 --> 2:36:12.640 tariffs on like Kentucky bourbon and whiskey and stuff, but 2:36:12.680 --> 2:36:16.080 it also hits Boeing, a bunch of Rydom consumer goods. 2:36:16.120 --> 2:36:19.520 It's just like chewing gum. It's on roughly one hundred 2:36:19.560 --> 2:36:22.600 billion dollars of US goods. I think the biggest pressure 2:36:22.600 --> 2:36:25.600 points here are Boeing in general dynamics. There's tariffs on 2:36:25.680 --> 2:36:28.640 car companies. There's also very importantly there was a twenty 2:36:28.680 --> 2:36:31.119 five percent tariff in here on soybeans, which I think 2:36:31.160 --> 2:36:34.240 is a major leverage point because the US continues to 2:36:34.280 --> 2:36:36.480 need a market to sell all the soybeans that China's 2:36:36.520 --> 2:36:37.039 not buying. 2:36:37.200 --> 2:36:39.360 And yeah, China ain't buying them right now. We just 2:36:39.400 --> 2:36:41.760 had another month where they bought none of our soybeans. 2:36:42.200 --> 2:36:42.560 Yeah. 2:36:42.720 --> 2:36:44.720 So these are the tariffs that the EU was going 2:36:44.760 --> 2:36:48.039 to put into effect on February seventh in response to 2:36:48.200 --> 2:36:49.920 the Greenland tariffs. 2:36:50.000 --> 2:36:52.560 No, okay, sorry, back this up. This is a tariff 2:36:52.560 --> 2:36:55.840 measure that was originally designed back in May of last 2:36:55.920 --> 2:36:58.480 year in response to Trump's original ride of tariffs a 2:36:58.480 --> 2:37:02.320 Liberation Day tariffs. Yeah, they've been suspended until now, and 2:37:02.440 --> 2:37:04.920 they were about to just not go into effect at all. However, 2:37:04.959 --> 2:37:07.240 the EU immediately has been like, okay, maybe we are 2:37:07.320 --> 2:37:08.480 going to impose these ones. 2:37:08.560 --> 2:37:13.080 Ah, got it because of Trump's new because greenlands leverage tariffs. 2:37:13.240 --> 2:37:15.879 Yeah, I see. So this is this is one of 2:37:15.920 --> 2:37:18.560 the two options that EU has. The other option and 2:37:18.720 --> 2:37:22.039 this is okay, getting those tariffs would be a little 2:37:22.040 --> 2:37:25.440 bit difficult, but that's significantly the more likely option. The 2:37:25.560 --> 2:37:28.000 other option, the thing you've been hearing about, which is 2:37:28.080 --> 2:37:30.600 the trade Bazuka, which. 2:37:30.440 --> 2:37:33.560 Was also my grinder screen name at the RNC. 2:37:33.640 --> 2:37:36.560 Trade bzuk you either get it? 2:37:36.600 --> 2:37:37.160 Are you deaf? 2:37:37.320 --> 2:37:40.760 You can? This is great? This is great. Okay, So 2:37:41.080 --> 2:37:45.360 all right, what is the trade bazuka? We're just going 2:37:45.440 --> 2:37:46.039 to move past that. 2:37:47.520 --> 2:37:50.039 So it's what a lot of Republicans were asking themselves 2:37:50.080 --> 2:37:51.000 in twenty twenty four. 2:37:51.760 --> 2:37:55.720 Oh god, gogo trending term in Minneapolis, ORGA. 2:37:55.760 --> 2:37:59.760 Okay, So the trade Bazuka is an anti coercion instrument 2:37:59.760 --> 2:38:02.720 that was originally designed by the EU in the early 2:38:02.760 --> 2:38:06.440 twenty twenties as a response to some bullshit that China 2:38:06.520 --> 2:38:11.039 pulled with Lithuania over embassy stuff in Taiwan. It's a 2:38:11.040 --> 2:38:13.280 whole thing. I'm not going to explain it here, but 2:38:14.360 --> 2:38:20.240 these measures are I think maybe the most extraordinary measures 2:38:20.240 --> 2:38:23.920 that I've seen. These measures, if they went into effect, 2:38:23.959 --> 2:38:27.080 would be more serious than the Liberation Day tariffs. They 2:38:27.160 --> 2:38:30.840 are very, very difficult to enact. They require fifteen of 2:38:30.840 --> 2:38:32.800 the twenty seven EU members, there has to be an 2:38:32.840 --> 2:38:36.560 investigation process, there's a whole thing, and the negotiations have 2:38:36.600 --> 2:38:40.680 to actually break down. And this is where it's really difficult, 2:38:40.720 --> 2:38:43.760 because Germany in particular does not really seem to want 2:38:43.800 --> 2:38:47.400 to do this. However, Trump has played this very badly 2:38:47.440 --> 2:38:49.600 in the sense that two of his natural allies in 2:38:49.640 --> 2:38:51.920 the EU are the UK and Norway, who he just 2:38:52.080 --> 2:38:53.680 was threatening to leverage tariffs on. 2:38:54.320 --> 2:38:56.720 So you can't part of the EU anymore. 2:38:56.720 --> 2:39:00.360 But yeah, well for yeah, but those are those are 2:39:00.440 --> 2:39:03.720 his two European allies, and the UK still has significant 2:39:04.040 --> 2:39:08.440 leverage inside of their Now what is interesting is that 2:39:08.520 --> 2:39:14.240 Macron has called first deployment if Trump presses to move 2:39:14.280 --> 2:39:16.560 on Greenland. So the question sort of is what does 2:39:16.560 --> 2:39:20.120 this thing do? And the short answer is everything. The 2:39:20.160 --> 2:39:24.080 long answer is incredibly long, and the medium answer is 2:39:24.160 --> 2:39:27.440 if you go read the document. I read it, I'm 2:39:27.440 --> 2:39:29.160 going to roughly based by description of what it can 2:39:29.200 --> 2:39:32.959 do on Willer Hail, which is a law firms version 2:39:32.959 --> 2:39:35.720 of it. So there's ten things they can do. They 2:39:35.720 --> 2:39:38.640 can put on tariffs. They can do important export restrictions 2:39:38.640 --> 2:39:41.200 on goods. They can impose trade restrictions in general. They 2:39:41.200 --> 2:39:44.680 can impose restrictions on government procurement and contracts and what 2:39:44.720 --> 2:39:47.880 goods are bought by governments. They can do services restrictions. 2:39:48.400 --> 2:39:51.920 They can do foreign direct investment restrictions. They can do 2:39:52.040 --> 2:39:56.520 restrictions on intellectual property. Right protections. They can do capital 2:39:56.520 --> 2:40:00.440 controls of financial services restrictions. They can do chemicals and 2:40:00.480 --> 2:40:04.640 like sanitary goods restrictions, so they can stop the US 2:40:05.320 --> 2:40:08.360 from importing goods to the EU. They can prevent EU 2:40:08.400 --> 2:40:10.960 governments from giving contracts to the US companies or buying 2:40:11.000 --> 2:40:14.280 anything from the US. They can restrict American intellectual property rights, 2:40:14.280 --> 2:40:15.680 which I don't even know what that would do. 2:40:15.800 --> 2:40:17.800 I think that means that they can all pirate whatever 2:40:17.840 --> 2:40:18.400 they want. 2:40:18.320 --> 2:40:20.760 Right, yeah, right, that rules. 2:40:20.840 --> 2:40:22.440 Spain did this for a long time. 2:40:22.840 --> 2:40:24.640 Yeah, it's like we're firing the trade Bizuka and now 2:40:24.640 --> 2:40:28.039 you can use every Disney character like Disney would rise up. 2:40:28.240 --> 2:40:31.400 Yeah, just flood the market with with Mickey Mouse pornography. 2:40:31.520 --> 2:40:34.800 That that is that is part of the EU's response package. 2:40:35.000 --> 2:40:37.400 I mean that, No, that that already falls under fair 2:40:37.480 --> 2:40:38.560 you Strabert. 2:40:39.160 --> 2:40:41.440 Not the way I do it, Garrison, not the way 2:40:41.480 --> 2:40:42.119 I do it. 2:40:43.280 --> 2:40:45.240 These are technically two different Mickey Mouses. 2:40:45.320 --> 2:40:48.560 Technically, no, no, no, I've been very clear about which 2:40:48.560 --> 2:40:51.880 Mickey Mouse is in my pornography. 2:40:52.120 --> 2:40:55.680 So so the reason this is being called like the 2:40:55.680 --> 2:40:59.200 trade bizuk or the nuclear option is that the actual 2:41:00.080 --> 2:41:02.520 once this is enacted, which is very difficult. The actual 2:41:02.520 --> 2:41:04.560 limits and what they can do are almost on existence. 2:41:04.600 --> 2:41:07.480 They can once they've targeted it, it can kind of 2:41:07.560 --> 2:41:10.520 do whatever you wanted to do to the extent that 2:41:10.560 --> 2:41:12.720 they could in theory basically shut down all trade with 2:41:12.760 --> 2:41:13.840 the US. 2:41:13.840 --> 2:41:16.480 Why didn't they call it the trade death Star? I honest, 2:41:16.520 --> 2:41:19.000 Zook is not thinking big enough, like that takes out 2:41:19.000 --> 2:41:21.240 a tank, Jenny Widely. 2:41:21.320 --> 2:41:23.400 I think it's being called the Bazuko because the people 2:41:23.440 --> 2:41:25.800 reporting on this haven't actually read it and have not 2:41:25.879 --> 2:41:28.320 thought through the implications of what this thing does, which 2:41:28.360 --> 2:41:31.240 is that, like Jesus Christ. 2:41:31.120 --> 2:41:33.000 The trade mutually assured destruction device. 2:41:33.360 --> 2:41:35.680 Yeah, yeah, it's isn't. 2:41:35.520 --> 2:41:38.480 Mutually assured destruction? Is that what this whole thing is 2:41:38.520 --> 2:41:39.080 built around. 2:41:40.120 --> 2:41:44.320 Yeah, because the EU's economy will also plunge. 2:41:44.360 --> 2:41:49.199 But yeah, so this was originally designed around China specifically, 2:41:49.959 --> 2:41:53.280 but it's designed effectively as a nuke. Right, You're not 2:41:53.480 --> 2:41:56.119 supposed to have to ever get to the point where 2:41:56.160 --> 2:41:58.360 you're invoking it. It's designed to be a set of 2:41:58.360 --> 2:42:00.160 trade things that is so damaging that no one in 2:42:00.200 --> 2:42:04.840 their right mind would possibly risk it happening. Unfortunately, our 2:42:04.920 --> 2:42:07.680 president is Donald Trump. Heah, we are Yeah, yeah, so 2:42:07.720 --> 2:42:11.039 that's the sort of nuclear option here. I want to 2:42:11.120 --> 2:42:14.520 mention one other thing which Robert Bluefly touched on earlier, 2:42:15.520 --> 2:42:19.320 which is there's been a lot of discussion of a 2:42:19.720 --> 2:42:23.440 quote from a report by the guy who is Deutsche 2:42:23.520 --> 2:42:27.640 Banks head of Foreign Exchange Research, and he's talking about 2:42:27.640 --> 2:42:28.920 how much treasury bond is owned. 2:42:28.959 --> 2:42:31.800 But you, I mean a lot. There are primary treasury 2:42:31.840 --> 2:42:34.199 bond holders, right, like the four In terms of foreign 2:42:34.240 --> 2:42:35.280 treasury bond holders. 2:42:35.360 --> 2:42:38.480 Yeah, yeah, between that and stocks, it's like eight trillion dollars. 2:42:38.640 --> 2:42:41.280 Yeah, and treasury bonds. By the way, the fact that 2:42:41.360 --> 2:42:44.279 the EU is like our primary foreign treasury bond holder, 2:42:44.400 --> 2:42:47.720 like treasury bonds and foreign countries holding them is why 2:42:47.800 --> 2:42:51.560 the dollar is the reserve currency. It's why if you 2:42:51.640 --> 2:42:55.959 are wanting to like ransom someone or buy illegal guns 2:42:55.959 --> 2:42:58.600 and drugs anywhere in the world, they're more likely to 2:42:58.680 --> 2:43:02.040 use dollars than euro. That is changing, you know, in 2:43:02.120 --> 2:43:06.000 the in the international crime game, but the dollar is 2:43:06.040 --> 2:43:09.920 still the default foreign currency. People around the world needed 2:43:09.920 --> 2:43:13.160 a currency that's universally valued, the dollar is is the 2:43:13.160 --> 2:43:17.880 best bet, and it's because of how treasury bonds work, right, 2:43:17.959 --> 2:43:20.560 Like that's I'm oversimplifying but that's. 2:43:20.360 --> 2:43:23.240 A big part of it. Yeah, so okay, I'm going 2:43:23.320 --> 2:43:27.160 to read the actual quote here. In an environment where 2:43:27.200 --> 2:43:31.480 the geoeconomic stability of the Western Alliance is being disrupted existentially, 2:43:31.560 --> 2:43:34.000 it is not clear why Europeans would be willing to 2:43:34.080 --> 2:43:39.440 play this part. To translate this from like banking into 2:43:39.920 --> 2:43:42.720 what is he actually saying. What he is arguing here 2:43:42.840 --> 2:43:44.840 is that there is the potential for these countries to 2:43:44.840 --> 2:43:48.880 stop buying US treasury bonds and effectively pull out of 2:43:48.879 --> 2:43:53.640 American assets. It's not quite that easy, but this, this 2:43:53.760 --> 2:43:55.880 would be the what we're talking about is like, is 2:43:55.920 --> 2:43:58.160 the is the end of the US al res reserve currency. 2:43:58.200 --> 2:44:02.000 And he's also very specific. This is about the fact 2:44:02.000 --> 2:44:05.119 that the dollar status is reserve currency is a thing 2:44:05.160 --> 2:44:07.400 that is allowing the US military to carry out these 2:44:07.480 --> 2:44:12.600 kind of operations. Up until yesterday when he said this, 2:44:12.760 --> 2:44:15.480 the only people I have ever seen actually say this 2:44:16.080 --> 2:44:18.440 are you know, I mean economist who I like as 2:44:18.440 --> 2:44:22.520 people like David Hudson, David Graber talks about this, but like, 2:44:22.840 --> 2:44:24.560 this is a thing that you could only say if 2:44:24.560 --> 2:44:27.360 you were like a Marxist or an anarchist. And now 2:44:27.400 --> 2:44:30.240 you have Deutsche Bank analysts saying it. And this is 2:44:30.280 --> 2:44:34.440 something that was impossible like two days ago, that there 2:44:34.440 --> 2:44:38.039 would actually be serious discussion of, you know, using as 2:44:38.040 --> 2:44:41.680 a geopolitical tool like getting out of US Treasury bonds, 2:44:41.680 --> 2:44:43.920 which means ending the US dollar as a reserve currency. 2:44:44.760 --> 2:44:47.120 And this was a big enough deal that the U 2:44:47.120 --> 2:44:49.800 s Secretary of the Treasury is claiming that Deutsche Bank 2:44:49.920 --> 2:44:53.320 called him to disavow the analysis. Wow, it's unclear if 2:44:53.320 --> 2:44:57.800 that's true or not. But this, I think is one 2:44:57.840 --> 2:45:00.440 of the things that really panicked them in terms of 2:45:00.480 --> 2:45:04.960 why Trump backed off. Was there are multiple nuclear options 2:45:05.040 --> 2:45:06.440 that are being put on the table for the first 2:45:06.480 --> 2:45:10.600 time ever. And I think that that and the down 2:45:10.640 --> 2:45:13.199 route was enough to just panic them for at least 2:45:13.240 --> 2:45:17.039 one day. And we'll see what tomorrow holds. But yeah, 2:45:17.080 --> 2:45:20.480 this is a really significant shift in what is able 2:45:20.560 --> 2:45:24.160 to be discussed in terms of reactions to what the 2:45:24.280 --> 2:45:25.080 US is doing. 2:45:25.640 --> 2:45:29.040 Well, you know what else is the United States? 2:45:29.520 --> 2:45:41.360 These ads another flawless Robert Evans molment everybody. 2:45:44.720 --> 2:45:48.320 And we're back, all right? What else we got to 2:45:48.320 --> 2:45:50.520 talk to? Anything else happened in the entire world? 2:45:50.800 --> 2:45:51.440 I don't think so. 2:45:52.160 --> 2:45:55.560 Yes, there actually there is two more Davos thinks very 2:45:55.560 --> 2:45:58.200 briefly that I think we should get to before we 2:45:58.320 --> 2:46:01.400 kind of end with some other updates on ongoing stories 2:46:01.400 --> 2:46:03.600 and situations that we've been covering on the pod for 2:46:03.640 --> 2:46:08.520 a while. But when Mia was talking about how this 2:46:08.520 --> 2:46:10.720 this sort of analysis was only used by you know, 2:46:10.800 --> 2:46:13.440 like Marxists or certain tymes of anarchists before that is 2:46:13.480 --> 2:46:17.200 now getting kind of paid lip service on the national stage, 2:46:17.440 --> 2:46:21.199 that reminded me a little bit of Canadian Prime Minister 2:46:21.280 --> 2:46:27.160 Mark Carney's Davos speech yesterday who which addressed some similar 2:46:27.200 --> 2:46:32.440 things on the fiction of the quote rules based international order. 2:46:33.000 --> 2:46:37.240 Christ, holy shit, I mean I agree with that description 2:46:37.280 --> 2:46:39.800 of the rules based international order. Mark conn has been 2:46:39.800 --> 2:46:40.480 reading my book. 2:46:40.840 --> 2:46:43.440 Yeah, let's let's take a lesson. 2:46:43.840 --> 2:46:47.080 We knew the story of the international rules based order 2:46:47.200 --> 2:46:52.040 was partially false, that the strongest would exempt themselves when convenient, 2:46:52.480 --> 2:46:58.520 that trade rules were enforced asymmetrically, and we knew that 2:46:58.600 --> 2:47:01.959 international law applied with varying rigor depending on the identity 2:47:02.000 --> 2:47:05.480 of the accused or the victim. 2:47:05.800 --> 2:47:06.920 This fiction was useful. 2:47:07.640 --> 2:47:12.840 An American hegemony, in particular, helped provide public goods, open 2:47:12.879 --> 2:47:17.320 sea lanes, a stable financial system, collective security, and support 2:47:17.400 --> 2:47:22.160 for frameworks for resolving disputes. So we placed the sign 2:47:22.280 --> 2:47:27.160 in the window, We participated in the rituals, and we 2:47:27.280 --> 2:47:31.800 largely avoided calling out the gaps between rhetoric and reality. 2:47:32.640 --> 2:47:34.760 This bargain no longer works. 2:47:35.879 --> 2:47:36.760 Let me be direct. 2:47:37.480 --> 2:47:40.440 We are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition. 2:47:41.640 --> 2:47:45.879 Over the past two decades, a series of crises in finance, health, energy, 2:47:45.879 --> 2:47:49.760 and geopolitics have laid bare the risks of extreme global integration. 2:47:50.520 --> 2:47:54.920 But more recently, great powers have begun using economic integration 2:47:55.160 --> 2:48:02.640 as weapons. Tariffs's leverage, financial infrastructures, coercions, apply chains as vulnerabilities. 2:48:01.879 --> 2:48:02.879 To be exploited. 2:48:04.560 --> 2:48:07.960 You cannot live within the lie of mutual benefit through 2:48:07.959 --> 2:48:13.400 integration when integration becomes the source of your subordination. 2:48:15.280 --> 2:48:16.160 Jesus Christ. 2:48:16.600 --> 2:48:20.400 Yeah, it's really remarkable to hear the political leader of 2:48:20.440 --> 2:48:24.240 Canada being like it was always very clearly a lie, 2:48:24.400 --> 2:48:28.240 the rules based international order where the United States exempted 2:48:28.280 --> 2:48:32.200 itself because it had power, but we pretended that this 2:48:32.360 --> 2:48:35.760 wasn't happening. We like acknowledging that, Like, we ignored them 2:48:35.800 --> 2:48:39.039 breaking the rules because it was convenient for Canada. 2:48:39.120 --> 2:48:41.000 Yeah, it totally worked out well for us, until now 2:48:41.000 --> 2:48:43.119 it doesn't work out well for us anymore. 2:48:42.959 --> 2:48:45.760 Like I should invading a rock. It was fine, but 2:48:45.879 --> 2:48:49.840 now like that fucking it might invade us one day. 2:48:49.920 --> 2:48:53.160 So oh yeah, it's really interesting, just totally pulling back 2:48:53.200 --> 2:48:55.680 the curtain on this type of neoliberalism here. 2:48:55.800 --> 2:48:57.000 Yeah, I love too. 2:48:57.040 --> 2:49:00.560 Every time you get someone who would never ever give, 2:49:00.840 --> 2:49:03.520 like anarchists or anarchist political theory the light of day, 2:49:03.920 --> 2:49:07.440 like independently come to a conclusion very late. That is 2:49:08.000 --> 2:49:10.360 like that anarchists has been yelling after you, like, yes, 2:49:10.440 --> 2:49:12.680 it's a fiction. The rules based international order is a 2:49:12.720 --> 2:49:16.279 fiction all the like. Everyone's playing lip service to these ideas, 2:49:16.280 --> 2:49:19.200 knowing the US has exempted itself because hiding behind the 2:49:19.240 --> 2:49:22.520 big guy is convenient. But that's a bad idea. The 2:49:22.560 --> 2:49:25.039 thing that people who knew anything were saying when we 2:49:25.080 --> 2:49:27.800 invaded Iraq, which was if you let them get away 2:49:27.840 --> 2:49:30.760 with this, no one will ever be safe, that's the way. 2:49:30.800 --> 2:49:33.119 And all those people got pushed aside is like, no, 2:49:33.200 --> 2:49:36.039 you're just being hysteric, Like you're just being like that 2:49:36.360 --> 2:49:39.600 you don't have like a real understanding of politics and 2:49:39.640 --> 2:49:43.080 how it works, and there will never be any kind 2:49:43.120 --> 2:49:45.080 of reckoning of people being like, oh yeah, all of 2:49:45.200 --> 2:49:48.560 like the all of the people who were like inconveniently 2:49:49.560 --> 2:49:53.600 critical were right twenty something years ago. They'll never say that, 2:49:54.000 --> 2:49:56.480 but it's fun to see them admit it, like, you know, 2:49:56.640 --> 2:49:57.800 kind of obliquely. 2:49:58.080 --> 2:50:00.160 Yeah, it sounds like he's been reading Charles Tilly. It's 2:50:00.240 --> 2:50:02.039 kind of kind of remarkable. 2:50:02.879 --> 2:50:05.560 Carney did write this speech himself. That's something that he 2:50:05.560 --> 2:50:07.080 has come out and said that this was not like 2:50:07.160 --> 2:50:10.160 some speech writer who's pulling from like whatever, like you know, 2:50:10.280 --> 2:50:12.920 Neil Liberal bookshelf is popular right now, Like he specifically 2:50:12.959 --> 2:50:13.760 wrote this himself. 2:50:13.879 --> 2:50:15.720 Yeah, I mean he just crimmed from that book I 2:50:15.720 --> 2:50:18.119 read as a kid. The Emperor has no clothes. 2:50:17.800 --> 2:50:19.199 Like clothes. 2:50:22.560 --> 2:50:27.400 So before the announcement of this ambiguous Greenland deal, which 2:50:27.720 --> 2:50:32.600 neither the European authorities nor Trump has really given any 2:50:32.640 --> 2:50:35.600 details of yet. But but before this, Trump did speak 2:50:35.600 --> 2:50:40.039 Outdavos on Wednesday, where he confused to Greenland for Iceland 2:50:40.520 --> 2:50:45.080 and said that they called him quote unquote, daddy, God 2:50:45.200 --> 2:50:46.320 damn it. Play the clip. 2:50:46.520 --> 2:50:50.760 I'm helping Europe, I'm helping NATO, and I've until the 2:50:50.879 --> 2:50:53.720 last few days when I told him about Iceland they 2:50:53.800 --> 2:50:59.080 loved me. They called me daddy right last time. Oh god, 2:50:59.480 --> 2:51:02.840 very smart man said he's our daddy. He's running it. 2:51:02.959 --> 2:51:03.879 I was like running it. 2:51:03.920 --> 2:51:06.040 I went from running it to being a terrible human 2:51:06.080 --> 2:51:07.760 being very cool. 2:51:07.840 --> 2:51:12.240 Mister President, based on the reporting, acknowledging that he multiple times, 2:51:12.280 --> 2:51:15.280 not just in this clip, said Iceland when he meant Greenland. 2:51:15.840 --> 2:51:19.600 Carolyn Levitt, pres Secretary, responded by saying no, his written 2:51:19.680 --> 2:51:23.879 remarks referred to Greenland as a quote unquote piece of ice, 2:51:24.520 --> 2:51:27.680 because that's what it is unquote, so saying that he 2:51:27.800 --> 2:51:33.160 was literally calling Greenland like an ice land. Anyway, the 2:51:33.200 --> 2:51:35.800 emperor is totally wearing clothes. I don't know what you're 2:51:35.840 --> 2:51:36.520 talking about. 2:51:36.800 --> 2:51:39.040 What's that mon moth? But quote about they don't even 2:51:39.040 --> 2:51:40.600 bother to lie badly anymore. 2:51:40.879 --> 2:51:41.119 Yeah. 2:51:42.840 --> 2:51:45.560 Yeah, that's the worst excuse I've ever heard. 2:51:45.600 --> 2:51:47.840 It's incredible ice Land. 2:51:48.080 --> 2:51:51.240 I mean, it's going to be a remarkable thing to 2:51:51.320 --> 2:51:53.160 be in her position right and just be like, what 2:51:53.200 --> 2:51:54.600 the fuck am I going to come up with? 2:51:54.760 --> 2:51:54.880 Like? 2:51:54.920 --> 2:51:58.000 How do I what? What are we going to spin here? 2:51:58.520 --> 2:51:59.720 Ice? Pause? 2:52:00.600 --> 2:52:06.080 Spacelaneah Land one word? It's incredible? Wait what you go? 2:52:06.240 --> 2:52:06.520 Girl? 2:52:07.240 --> 2:52:07.720 Go off? 2:52:07.920 --> 2:52:08.280 Yeah? 2:52:08.800 --> 2:52:09.240 Wow. 2:52:11.600 --> 2:52:17.920 Later at the CEO reception dinner, Trump said this, Oh god, we. 2:52:18.000 --> 2:52:19.360 Had good reviews in that speech. 2:52:19.440 --> 2:52:22.520 Usually they say he's a horrible dictator type person. 2:52:22.560 --> 2:52:27.080 I'm anna dictator, but sometimes you need a dictator. But 2:52:27.160 --> 2:52:28.680 they didn't say that in this case. 2:52:29.640 --> 2:52:30.840 Sure, my guy. 2:52:32.200 --> 2:52:34.080 Share oh man, of. 2:52:34.040 --> 2:52:37.280 Course they didn't. I wonder why. Yeah. 2:52:37.440 --> 2:52:39.680 Multiple times during this speech he was like, if it 2:52:39.680 --> 2:52:41.480 weren't for the United States and you'd all be speaking 2:52:41.480 --> 2:52:44.920 German and maybe a little Japanese, it's like incredible. 2:52:46.080 --> 2:52:48.480 How did he think? Like, yeah, how did he think that, 2:52:48.600 --> 2:52:52.160 like control was going to break down between those two countries. 2:52:52.320 --> 2:52:57.000 Slowly giving Japan right on Sundays it's Japan and the 2:52:57.040 --> 2:52:58.520 rest of the time it's German. 2:52:58.879 --> 2:53:02.360 Incredible, Yeah, pan pulling up like your deadbeat dad to 2:53:02.440 --> 2:53:04.720 be like, look this weekend your mind. 2:53:05.120 --> 2:53:08.520 If it wasn't a horrific monster, be really funny. 2:53:08.560 --> 2:53:09.560 We're eating sushi. 2:53:10.160 --> 2:53:11.440 He's so funny. 2:53:11.720 --> 2:53:14.520 He is really he's our funniest president by a wide margin. 2:53:15.000 --> 2:53:17.760 Evil, but he's so funny. Yeah. 2:53:17.800 --> 2:53:21.039 The way he pronounced dictator where there was like a 2:53:21.200 --> 2:53:22.640 slight pause, like. 2:53:22.840 --> 2:53:26.320 He legitimately has good timing as a presenter. It's actually 2:53:26.320 --> 2:53:27.119 two words Sophie. 2:53:27.160 --> 2:53:29.520 He was saying dick and then tata like the contraction 2:53:29.560 --> 2:53:30.720 of potato like. 2:53:30.800 --> 2:53:33.120 It sounded like he was giving a recipe. 2:53:33.600 --> 2:53:35.760 I was like, what are we doing here? 2:53:35.959 --> 2:53:39.959 Oh my gosh, here, do we have anything else from Davos? 2:53:40.720 --> 2:53:42.360 No, I think that's all for DeVos. One of the 2:53:42.440 --> 2:53:46.680 funnier DeVos isn't in recent memory. I agree, Yeah, Now 2:53:46.720 --> 2:53:49.080 we just have some sad news that James is probably 2:53:49.080 --> 2:53:49.600 gonna say. 2:53:50.360 --> 2:53:52.840 Yeah, so, I guess if we start with a run 2:53:52.920 --> 2:53:57.000 right protesta continuing. The BBC had a piece today where 2:53:57.000 --> 2:53:59.879 they were leaked to photos of hundreds of the people 2:54:00.600 --> 2:54:03.879 who have been killed. Jesus, there's three hundred and twenty 2:54:03.920 --> 2:54:08.480 six items, including eighteen women. The reason that they were 2:54:08.560 --> 2:54:12.760 able to get these images is it seems that people 2:54:13.520 --> 2:54:16.360 went to the mortuary and had to look through a 2:54:16.440 --> 2:54:20.320 slide show of the faces of people who have been killed, 2:54:20.560 --> 2:54:25.200 many of whom are so disfigured that they're unrecognizable, and 2:54:25.520 --> 2:54:28.800 they have to flick through hundreds of images of these 2:54:28.840 --> 2:54:33.480 brutalized human remains in order to try and identify their 2:54:33.520 --> 2:54:41.520 loved ones. Right, it is unimaginable the scale of state violence. 2:54:42.440 --> 2:54:47.600 Godoyen had an interview on his Twitter or his ex 2:54:47.680 --> 2:54:50.800 dot com right that with people with someone inside Iran, 2:54:50.840 --> 2:54:52.520 which I'd encourage people to read and which we will 2:54:52.560 --> 2:54:56.120 link in the show notes. But like people continue to 2:54:56.240 --> 2:54:58.480 be in the streets there and the state continues to 2:54:58.520 --> 2:55:04.600 meet them with absolutely horrific violence. And talking of horrific violence, 2:55:04.720 --> 2:55:08.360 I want to move now to Syria, right, specifically to 2:55:08.440 --> 2:55:13.039 Syrian Kurdistan and the I guess majority Arab parts of 2:55:13.040 --> 2:55:15.920 Syria that had previously been part of the Autonomous Administration 2:55:15.959 --> 2:55:16.959 of North and East Syria. 2:55:17.080 --> 2:55:17.240 Right. 2:55:18.040 --> 2:55:22.160 Last week we talked about fighting in Aleppo and then 2:55:22.160 --> 2:55:26.080 we spoke about like fighting moving towards Euphrates. Right, fighting 2:55:26.120 --> 2:55:29.640 has now moved past where it was last week, and 2:55:29.720 --> 2:55:33.560 it's moving dangerously closed to Comeichlo and Hesseka, which are 2:55:33.840 --> 2:55:38.240 the two biggest Kurdish cities. Hesseica is not just a 2:55:38.280 --> 2:55:39.480 city where Curdish people live. 2:55:39.600 --> 2:55:39.760 Right. 2:55:39.840 --> 2:55:41.920 Arab people, I mean not neither of these are right, 2:55:41.959 --> 2:55:45.920 Arab people, are Syrian people, are Meinian people, right yuzds. 2:55:46.520 --> 2:55:51.160 The ANES was a multi ethnic project like that. That's 2:55:51.200 --> 2:55:54.400 what distinguished the SDF from the from the YPG and 2:55:54.440 --> 2:55:56.800 the YPG right that they were multi ethnic, they weren't 2:55:56.840 --> 2:55:57.440 just Kurdish. 2:55:57.560 --> 2:55:58.400 Yeah. 2:55:59.120 --> 2:56:02.560 The the way that this has occurred is that the 2:56:02.600 --> 2:56:08.119 Syrian Transitional Government has been able to flip multiple tribal 2:56:08.240 --> 2:56:12.039 groups who are mostly Arab who had previously fought alongside 2:56:12.240 --> 2:56:15.440 the SDF as part of the SDF right, but have 2:56:15.600 --> 2:56:18.400 now flipped to the side of the Syrian Transitional Government. 2:56:18.440 --> 2:56:22.240 So it's leaves the SDF with previously units that have 2:56:22.240 --> 2:56:26.000 been there suddenly flipping, and they have lost huge amounts 2:56:26.000 --> 2:56:29.759 of territory to include Raka, famously. 2:56:29.400 --> 2:56:31.080 Formber capital of the Islamic State. 2:56:31.560 --> 2:56:35.920 Yeah, the former capital where thousands died both as a result 2:56:35.920 --> 2:56:38.360 of is violence and in the fighting for the city 2:56:38.400 --> 2:56:41.000 and a result as a result of civilians died as 2:56:41.000 --> 2:56:43.320 a result of coalition bombing during the fighting for the city. 2:56:43.400 --> 2:56:43.600 Right. 2:56:44.480 --> 2:56:50.400 There have been absolutely horrific images of the brutalization of 2:56:50.440 --> 2:56:54.959 the remains of captured YPG and YPGA fighters. 2:56:55.040 --> 2:56:55.920 Right, men and women. 2:56:56.720 --> 2:57:01.439 We have seen executions. This is not just executions are happening. 2:57:02.000 --> 2:57:06.000 It is that people who are fighting not necessarily in 2:57:06.040 --> 2:57:10.280 the Syrian Arab Army, but in at least alliance with 2:57:10.400 --> 2:57:14.720 the Syrian Transitional Government, have been so comfortable carrying out 2:57:14.760 --> 2:57:17.680 summary executions that they have decided to film and share them. 2:57:18.240 --> 2:57:22.000 So on Monday, muslium Abdi, right, the general of the 2:57:22.000 --> 2:57:25.279 Syrian Democratic Forces, traveled to Damascus to attempt to negotiate 2:57:25.320 --> 2:57:28.960 a peace and was not able to do that. It 2:57:29.280 --> 2:57:31.680 seems that he was offered some kind of position, but 2:57:31.760 --> 2:57:34.840 he didn't want the position. There was not also some 2:57:34.920 --> 2:57:40.039 kind of autonomy backstops for the remaining areas of the 2:57:40.080 --> 2:57:42.680 AA and E S right, and so as a result, 2:57:43.320 --> 2:57:47.440 there was a general mobilization in the AAN E S. 2:57:47.879 --> 2:57:51.800 People from Bakur so, people from northern Kurdistan have crossed 2:57:51.840 --> 2:57:55.440 the border. There's a border wall, fence wall, depending on 2:57:55.440 --> 2:57:58.560 where you're at, in between Turkish Kurdistan and Syrian Kurdistan, right, 2:57:58.600 --> 2:58:00.760 And at one point people have broken that down and 2:58:00.840 --> 2:58:04.120 young people have entered into Syrin Kurdistan to fight to 2:58:04.160 --> 2:58:06.879 defend the cities that are still part of the A 2:58:07.120 --> 2:58:10.760 and E S. The counter terrorism group of the p 2:58:11.120 --> 2:58:16.640 UK has entered Syrien Kurdistan. That's quite surprising, right, Yeah. 2:58:16.879 --> 2:58:20.000 Which is the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, Yeah, which is 2:58:20.040 --> 2:58:23.920 an Iraqi Kurdish political party effectively, Yeah. 2:58:23.720 --> 2:58:24.760 It is not aligned. 2:58:24.920 --> 2:58:28.000 Oh, Yeah, they're not lefty, right, or they're not democratic 2:58:28.000 --> 2:58:28.560 and federalist. 2:58:28.920 --> 2:58:32.400 No, they I mean were at some point like. 2:58:32.560 --> 2:58:36.080 They are now today basically like an arm of the 2:58:36.160 --> 2:58:40.000 Kurdish quote unquote state in northern Iraq. Right, they were 2:58:40.040 --> 2:58:42.800 originally more of an actual political party and did have 2:58:42.840 --> 2:58:46.760 some socialist elements. That's not really super relevant to what's 2:58:46.800 --> 2:58:47.240 going on. 2:58:47.680 --> 2:58:49.760 Yeah, the ideology is not the same as the ideology 2:58:49.920 --> 2:58:53.240 that you have seen in Imbrishava, right. Yeah, but like 2:58:53.680 --> 2:58:57.439 I have not since Kabani have you seen more unity 2:58:57.959 --> 2:59:02.040 of Kurdish people, regardless politics, right, Like a sort of 2:59:02.040 --> 2:59:05.440 statement from the gacy stuff from Bazani, from Talibani. So 2:59:05.480 --> 2:59:09.160 these are the two major political figures in Iraqi Kurdistan. 2:59:10.120 --> 2:59:14.160 I've seen Kurdish religious leaders making statements right because people 2:59:14.200 --> 2:59:16.879 are afraid of an ethnic cleansing, because they have seen 2:59:16.920 --> 2:59:19.840 the ethnic cleansings of the Drus and the Ala Whites 2:59:19.879 --> 2:59:23.640 that have already happened under the STG. Right, it's worth noting. 2:59:23.640 --> 2:59:26.039 I guess at this point, like for whatever reason, they 2:59:26.080 --> 2:59:29.160 have not chosen to remove the name Arab from the 2:59:29.160 --> 2:59:32.600 country's name, like the Syrian Arab Republic, And I think 2:59:32.720 --> 2:59:35.840 like that Syria is a multi ethnic and very diverse country, 2:59:35.840 --> 2:59:39.240 and if it is to succeed under any form of administration, 2:59:39.320 --> 2:59:43.360 it needs to acknowledge that, right. And it's it's really 2:59:43.840 --> 2:59:48.800 worrying to see this horrific inter ethnic violence, and it 2:59:48.879 --> 2:59:54.360 is being massively accelerated by people in the media right 2:59:54.400 --> 2:59:56.960 to include a lot of like people who who might 2:59:57.080 --> 2:59:59.039 be referred to as experts. I don't think that's a 2:59:59.080 --> 3:00:03.400 reasonable appalach like they're their expertise. It was pretty limited, 3:00:03.440 --> 3:00:08.040 but nonetheless, people who like to include journalists, telegram influencers 3:00:08.080 --> 3:00:11.000 and then think tankers in the West. People are sharing 3:00:11.040 --> 3:00:14.039 things that are either not true or that have not 3:00:14.160 --> 3:00:17.240 happened in this time, like telegram videos are actually not 3:00:17.800 --> 3:00:20.000 taken in Syria this week, right, that have taken different 3:00:20.000 --> 3:00:25.720 places and times, And we are careening towards this not 3:00:25.840 --> 3:00:30.840 becoming a fight between two different administrative projects, but becoming 3:00:30.879 --> 3:00:34.200 an inter ethnic conflict, right, And I think we're pretty 3:00:34.240 --> 3:00:37.040 much there at this point, and nobody seemed to be 3:00:37.080 --> 3:00:41.160 looking for an off ramp, which is tragic. Like I 3:00:41.200 --> 3:00:43.920 was in Hesseca two years ago and I was conducting 3:00:44.000 --> 3:00:45.880 interviews there and a member of this little kid whose 3:00:45.879 --> 3:00:49.160 father had died fighting Isis and like it was dark outside. 3:00:49.200 --> 3:00:51.040 You know, this was during a time when when Turkey 3:00:51.120 --> 3:00:55.200 was bombing the region quite heavily, and the little kid, 3:00:55.200 --> 3:00:56.800 I think had been struggling to sleep because he's. 3:00:56.640 --> 3:00:57.520 Sleeping in the middle of the day. 3:00:57.520 --> 3:00:59.360 And then when he woke up, we were just hanging 3:00:59.400 --> 3:01:02.000 out with his mother and I gave a little kids 3:01:02.000 --> 3:01:03.480 some toys to play with that I brought with me, 3:01:03.600 --> 3:01:06.520 and like, I can't help but thinking how scared that 3:01:06.560 --> 3:01:09.400 poor little guy is now, you know, and his dad's 3:01:09.440 --> 3:01:12.000 not there, right, yeah, because like twelve thousand members of 3:01:12.040 --> 3:01:14.840 the SDF. He died fighting the Islamic state, right and 3:01:14.879 --> 3:01:18.840 now another state is coming to put his family, his 3:01:19.200 --> 3:01:23.040 kid in danger. Like that's horrific. What people have gone 3:01:23.080 --> 3:01:26.320 through in Syria already is too much. And like to 3:01:26.360 --> 3:01:31.400 see more killing and dying there is heartbreaking for me. Yeah, yeah, 3:01:31.640 --> 3:01:34.080 it's very briefly. On the immigration update, it appears that 3:01:34.480 --> 3:01:39.080 immigration and Customs enforcement are now under the impression or 3:01:39.120 --> 3:01:42.760 there they believe that they can enter homes without the 3:01:42.800 --> 3:01:44.800 consent of the homeowner, so they can use force to 3:01:44.959 --> 3:01:49.280 enter in order to remove someone with a final removal order, 3:01:49.600 --> 3:01:52.400 so long as they have an administrative warrant that is 3:01:52.400 --> 3:01:54.760 a different thing from a judicial warrant. 3:01:54.920 --> 3:01:55.120 Right. 3:01:55.280 --> 3:01:57.080 This is often what people talk about when they talk 3:01:57.120 --> 3:01:58.840 about does ICE have a warrant? They're looking for a 3:01:58.879 --> 3:02:01.440 judicial warrant as opposed to warrant that they have issued 3:02:01.480 --> 3:02:06.240 themselves at administrative warrant, and so this will obviously broaden 3:02:06.320 --> 3:02:09.480 the amount of places that they can enter and times 3:02:09.480 --> 3:02:13.000 when they end up entering people's homes by force. Right, 3:02:13.080 --> 3:02:17.480 So we will likely be seeing more violence here as well. Yay, 3:02:20.879 --> 3:02:22.640 I'm going to put a link to a have ASAW 3:02:23.160 --> 3:02:25.480 fundraiser at the bottom of this if you'd like to 3:02:25.480 --> 3:02:26.560 help people in Kurdistan. 3:02:26.680 --> 3:02:28.359 There are people who have been displaced. 3:02:27.959 --> 3:02:31.160 Four times now in the last few years versince twenty eighteen, 3:02:31.200 --> 3:02:32.920 so if you'd like to help, you can do that. 3:02:33.600 --> 3:02:36.480 Will also include a fundraising link for Minneapolis if you'd 3:02:36.520 --> 3:02:38.960 like to spend some money closer to home. If you'd 3:02:39.000 --> 3:02:41.560 like to email us, you can do so by emailing 3:02:41.600 --> 3:02:45.240 cool Zone Tips at proton dot me. If you want 3:02:45.280 --> 3:02:46.920 the email to be encrypted, you should send it from 3:02:46.920 --> 3:02:47.959 a proton address. 3:02:48.480 --> 3:02:52.200 Well, we look forward to hearing more from Margaret and 3:02:52.360 --> 3:02:57.200 James in Minneapolis, and I don't know. I guess that's it. 3:02:57.959 --> 3:03:02.680 We reported the news, did we We reported the news, Yeah, 3:03:03.160 --> 3:03:03.600 all of it. 3:03:04.040 --> 3:03:06.040 Yeah, that's kind of how it feel. 3:03:06.040 --> 3:03:06.440 Awesome. 3:03:09.400 --> 3:03:10.480 We reported the news. 3:03:15.760 --> 3:03:18.920 Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 3:03:18.959 --> 3:03:20.880 from now until the heat death of the universe. 3:03:21.640 --> 3:03:24.160 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:03:24.320 --> 3:03:27.360 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:03:27.440 --> 3:03:31.040 Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:03:31.120 --> 3:03:33.160 Apple Podcasts, or wherever. 3:03:32.800 --> 3:03:34.080 You listen to podcasts. 3:03:34.440 --> 3:03:36.360 You can now find sources for It Could Happen here, 3:03:36.400 --> 3:03:39.359 listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.