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Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On.

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Speaker 1: You're here to make a significant announcement. I've registered as

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Speaker 1: an Arizona Independent. He is very disappointed that he was

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Speaker 1: left behind again. This is the second time that an

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Speaker 1: Americans has been released Floomberg sound On Politics, Policy and

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Speaker 1: Perspective from DC's top names each week, and we all

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Speaker 1: stopped saying how strong he is in building Russia. I've

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Speaker 1: decided to leave that partisan process. I've told her over

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Speaker 1: the last few years that if she wanted to dip

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Speaker 1: a toe and the Republican Party's poul, we'd be happy

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Speaker 1: to have her. Jop a Bloomberg Sound On with Joe

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Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Cinem Exit. I think we're going

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Speaker 1: with that, either that or sindependent, or maybe it was

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Speaker 1: just a cinematic day discussing Kirsten Cinema, the Senator, her

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Speaker 1: exit from the Democratic Party. She is an independent. Will

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Speaker 1: get into what does that mean for committees? What does

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Speaker 1: that say about the I think newly minted swing state

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Speaker 1: of Arizona. We've got a great panel coming up. We've

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Speaker 1: got Samara clar political science professor at the University of Arizona.

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Speaker 1: Rick Davis, our Bloomberg Politics contributor as a former McCain

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Speaker 1: John McCain campaign manager, John la Bombard, the senior vice

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Speaker 1: president at Rock Solutions, and a former coms director for

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Speaker 1: Kirston Cinema, as well as Joel Rubin, the former Deputy

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Speaker 1: Assistant Secretary of State, who's going to tell us the

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Speaker 1: latest on the Brittney Grinder, Victor Boots swap and the

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Speaker 1: significance of that big news for a Friday afternoon. We

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Speaker 1: also have to talk about everything Congress has to do.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to that. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick stepping in for

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Speaker 1: Joe Matthew today. What a day. We're gonna lead with

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Speaker 1: the sound from Senator Kirsten Cinema. I want you to

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Speaker 1: hear how she described her exit from the Democratic Party,

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Speaker 1: the fact that she is now an independent. She said

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Speaker 1: the following to Jake Tapper on CNN. You're here to

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Speaker 1: make a significant announcement. I've registered as an Arizona Independent.

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Speaker 1: I know some people might be a little bit surprised

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Speaker 1: by this, but actually I think it makes a lot

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Speaker 1: of sense. You know, a growing number of Arizonans and

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Speaker 1: people like me just don't feel like we fit neatly

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Speaker 1: into one party's box or the other, and so, like

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Speaker 1: many across the state in the nation, I've decided to

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Speaker 1: leave that partisan process and really just focus on the

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Speaker 1: work that I think matters to Arizona into our country,

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Speaker 1: which is solving problems and getting things done. We're joined

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Speaker 1: now by Samara clar the political science professor from the

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Speaker 1: University of Arizona. Professor, thank you so much for joining

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Speaker 1: us as an Arizona State grad. We don't need to

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Speaker 1: turn this into a rivalry on our show. I'm grateful

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Speaker 1: to have you here with us now. The Senator said,

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Speaker 1: some people might be surprised. I just have to suss

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Speaker 1: out was this actually surprising. Well, we all have the

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Speaker 1: benefit of hindsight now, so of course we can all say, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: I saw that coming. But you know it's it's a

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Speaker 1: surprise on time only as a major party, because we

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Speaker 1: know that typically independent and it DIDs have a hard

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Speaker 1: time winning. Chris and Cinema is in a bit of

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Speaker 1: a different situation. She's got low approval rating among Democrats

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Speaker 1: in Arizona, she doesn't have a democratic basis that she

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Speaker 1: can rely on, and she had a real legitimate fear

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Speaker 1: of facing potentially a strong primary challenge before race. So

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Speaker 1: she seemed to cast this as a matter of how

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Speaker 1: she views herself in Washington, that she doesn't fit with

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Speaker 1: either party. This is sort of an ideological issue. But

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Speaker 1: it sounds like, maybe you think this is about her polling,

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Speaker 1: this is about her stance in Arizona. Is this about

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Speaker 1: her place in the caucus or her security and potentially

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Speaker 1: lack of popularity with her constituents. Sure well, you know,

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Speaker 1: um Christ and Cinema has made a lot of big

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Speaker 1: headlines for obstructing or delaying Biden's legislative agenda in a

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Speaker 1: number of ways. But ultimately she's voted with the Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party sohere between nine and ninety seven percent of the time,

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Speaker 1: depending on how you're calculating her party loyalty score. So

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Speaker 1: her party, her your voting record actually doesn't look like

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Speaker 1: a real moderate necessarily. You know, we are in an

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Speaker 1: age now we expect a lot of party loyalty out

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Speaker 1: of our representatives. But she does typically vote with the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party, as I said, upwards of seven percent of

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Speaker 1: the time. Arizonans, on the other hand, are plurality Republican.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of Republican voters in Arizona, the outnumber Democrats.

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Speaker 1: The second most populous group of voters in Arizona are Independence.

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Speaker 1: So I think this was a strategic move on her part,

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Speaker 1: of course, to try to figure out how she can

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Speaker 1: get the most support possible in advance of her run.

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Speaker 1: So is it I guess would you characterize it as

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Speaker 1: a move of desperation because she was not in a

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Speaker 1: safe space politically with the Democratic electorate, Or I guess

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Speaker 1: how would you characterize the polling outlook for Senator Cinema

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Speaker 1: in her home state. Sure, well, politicians want to win.

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Speaker 1: They're all about re election. That's the first thing we

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Speaker 1: learned in political science. When when you get elected to power,

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Speaker 1: you want to keep power. And they're all trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out how they can successfully win re election. Her

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Speaker 1: polling has been very low in Arizona, and there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of discussion of primary challenges. What we've seen

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Speaker 1: in recent elections in Arizona is that this large proportion

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Speaker 1: of Independence are willing to move across the aisle. We

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Speaker 1: are seeing Independence in Arizona who typically vote for Republicans

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Speaker 1: not supporting Republicans. That's why we're seeing so many Democrats

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Speaker 1: win in recent elections. So I think she is seeing

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Speaker 1: a somewhat electorally malleable group of independence here in Arizona,

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Speaker 1: given that they outnumber Democrats, she is ostensibly perceiving independence

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Speaker 1: to be a winning voting block for her. We know

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Speaker 1: independence are not a block, They're an ideologically incoherent group.

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Speaker 1: But in Arizona, independence do seem to lean liberal. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Katie Hobbs won independence in Arizona by thirty percentage points.

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Speaker 1: Mark Kelly one independence in Arizona by twenty percentage points.

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Speaker 1: An independent Democrat has the best chance in Arizona of

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Speaker 1: getting those those voters out. So that raises the question

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Speaker 1: if someone sin on the Democratic side, it could be

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Speaker 1: Reuben Diego. I saw a very interesting tweet by Greg

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Speaker 1: Stanton seeming to indicate he had good UH statewide polling.

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Speaker 1: If a Democrat, a registered Democrat, jumps in wins the

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Speaker 1: Democratic nomination, and we've got a three way race with Cinema,

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Speaker 1: a Democrat, and a Republican, what is the most likely

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Speaker 1: way that that shakes out. Yeah, that's a big question.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's the gamble that Christian Cinema is facing.

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Speaker 1: You know, I, as an Arizona resident, I can tell

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Speaker 1: you moments after her announcement, I was getting the room

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Speaker 1: and diego texts, just like everybody else, asking for money,

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Speaker 1: trying to get this race going. But you know, that's

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Speaker 1: that's the question if if Independence here in Arizona are

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Speaker 1: going to break for Cinema or if they're going to

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Speaker 1: support the Democratic candidate. Typically Independence will vote for one

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Speaker 1: of the two major parties. Cinema is hoping that she

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Speaker 1: can cobble together those among the Democrats who do support her,

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Speaker 1: as well as moderate Independence who are going to potentially

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Speaker 1: align with this new narrative she's trying to create for himself.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like you don't necessarily think this is

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Speaker 1: a matter of mutually assured destruction between Cinema and a Democrat,

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Speaker 1: where a Republican just sweeps through and wins. That is

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Speaker 1: that right. You know what's gonna be really tricky here

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Speaker 1: in Arizona is that we have seen Republicans falter so

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Speaker 1: consistently over the last several election cycles. But one thing

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Speaker 1: that has been consistent has been Trump. Arizona Republicans have

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Speaker 1: not been supportive of Trump. Trump lost Trump's endorsed candidates

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Speaker 1: Martha McSally, Blake masters carry late, they're losing. With Trump

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Speaker 1: potentially off the ballot, off the presidential ballot, in Republicans

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Speaker 1: will have a chance to regain lost ground in Arizona. If, however,

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Speaker 1: Trump maintains sort of this shadow he is casting over

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party, then we could see Republicans continue to

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Speaker 1: falter here in Arizona. It's really going to attend not

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Speaker 1: only on how Democrats play this out, but also on

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Speaker 1: the candidates the Republicans choose to run. That is a

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Speaker 1: very important point I have to say. Through the Trump

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Speaker 1: lens uh the I guess shifting perspective of Jeff Flake

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Speaker 1: from a Tea Party guy to almost coming across as

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Speaker 1: a moderate over the course of the Trump years was

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Speaker 1: a fascinating thing. I do have to ask on the

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Speaker 1: Democratic side, though, because I think that clearly matters. Is

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Speaker 1: it clearly Ruben Diego? Is it potentially somebody else? Are

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Speaker 1: we looking at a very obvious front runner who is

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Speaker 1: going to go after her? I don't think there's a

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Speaker 1: clear front runner. I mean, we've had, you know, just

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Speaker 1: a few hours here to process all its in Arizona,

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Speaker 1: so I think we're gonna have to see who is

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Speaker 1: Rubind Reuben Diego has made it quite clear that he

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Speaker 1: is eager uh to be that Democratic candidate. But I

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Speaker 1: think we'll probably see another few good candidates emerge out

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Speaker 1: of the wood where, especially over the next few weeks

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Speaker 1: and months. Here, well, I want to play another clip

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Speaker 1: for you and hear what you think about this. UH.

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Speaker 1: Senator Cinema, at a food bank in Mesa described her

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Speaker 1: issues with the angry rhetoric and politics. Here's what she

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Speaker 1: had to say. I will not be a part of

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Speaker 1: what I considered to be an escalating to pertact, the

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Speaker 1: angry rhetoric, the desire to get one over on the

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Speaker 1: other party, the desire to punish each other. Everyone knows

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Speaker 1: I don't function like that. So is that, Professor clar

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Speaker 1: a good representation of what a large number of Arizona

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Speaker 1: voters want to hear? How does that resonate with them? Well,

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Speaker 1: I can tell you that the vast majority of independence

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Speaker 1: this is not only an Arizona but nationally as well,

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Speaker 1: typically do support one of the two major parties. But

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Speaker 1: the reason they are so loth to publicly identify with

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Speaker 1: that party is exactly the reasons that Senator Cinema is outlining.

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Speaker 1: They are not associating themselves with the vitriol and the

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Speaker 1: fighting and the conflict that we see so regularly associated

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Speaker 1: with partisans, be it in media or you know, on campaigns.

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Speaker 1: So by appealing to sort of this normal civility, by

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Speaker 1: appealing to a refusal to to sort of engage in

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Speaker 1: that kind of a battle, she is hitting the heart

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Speaker 1: of why so many Americans are growing percentage of Americans

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Speaker 1: won't identify with either party. So, you know, she's got

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Speaker 1: the right talking points when it comes to appealing to independence.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna matter, though, what her policy positions actually are

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Speaker 1: and whether they will align with the majority of independence

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Speaker 1: as well as a substantial portion of partisans, so that

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Speaker 1: she can get a plurality of votes. Well, then, just

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Speaker 1: at the end here, I wanna get you to identify

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Speaker 1: what the issue really is between her and Democrats and

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Speaker 1: how that plays into votes. You mentioned that she voted

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Speaker 1: a very high percentage of the time with Democrats, but

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Speaker 1: there were some high profile, uh instances of back and

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Speaker 1: forth in which she ended up voting for a piece

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Speaker 1: of legislation but but pulled some things out of it.

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Speaker 1: There was a carried interest loophole that Democrats wanted to

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Speaker 1: take out of their tax bill. She got the party

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Speaker 1: to take a measure out of that. There's also been

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Speaker 1: some frustration with her uh standing behind the filibuster. Emily's

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Speaker 1: List went after her a little bit earlier this year,

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Speaker 1: saying that, you know, on voting rights, you need to

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Speaker 1: you need to go after the filibuster. Aside for the

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Speaker 1: percentage of times that she votes with the party, what

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Speaker 1: do you see as the real sticking point between Senator

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Speaker 1: Cinema and the bulk of Democrats? What what made them

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Speaker 1: so dissatisfied with her and vice versa. Yeah, I know,

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Speaker 1: that's a great point. We have to distinguish between the

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Speaker 1: regularity with which she's voting with the Democrats, which is

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Speaker 1: very high, but also the salience of the issues where

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Speaker 1: she's not voting with the Democrats and she is being

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Speaker 1: obstructive or delaying or amending things in ways that are

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Speaker 1: chipping away at what Democrats were hoping to be a

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Speaker 1: more of a progressive legislative agenda. So she seems to

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Speaker 1: be a bit of an obstructionist when it comes to

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Speaker 1: some of the more more progressive, more impactful pieces of

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Speaker 1: legislation that Biden and many Democrats were hoping to achieve

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Speaker 1: a good analogy of frankly is John McCain, who has

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Speaker 1: loyal to the Republican Party. John McCain also voted with

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party the vast majority of the time. He

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Speaker 1: narrative that he was a disloyal party member. Samara clar

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Speaker 1: political science professor at the University of Arizona. Great to

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Speaker 1: have you on excellent insights. I've got to go to

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Speaker 1: our panel now because we've got a perfect panel for

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Speaker 1: Arizona News, where we've got on Rick Davis are Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Politics contributor and a former John McCain campaign manager, as

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Speaker 1: well as John la Bombard, senior vice president at Rock Solutions,

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Speaker 1: any former communications director for Senator Cinema. Given that we

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Speaker 1: just heard the McCain comparison, I have to ask Rick,

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Speaker 1: is that an accurate comparison is Senator Cinema setting herself

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Speaker 1: up to be the the John McCain of the Democratic Caucus. Well,

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Speaker 1: I do know that at least in my interactions with

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Speaker 1: ah wanted to do what she could to uh sustain

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Speaker 1: a legacy of independence and uh uh and I think

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Speaker 1: just describing that, you know, uh, somebody who thinks for

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Speaker 1: what party uh is uh supporting the measure. And I

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Speaker 1: think she largely has done that. I mean, her impact

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Speaker 1: on bipartisan legislation is second to none, uh since she's

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Speaker 1: been in the Senate. And even though some Democrats focus

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Speaker 1: on things like build back Better that she um, you know,

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Speaker 1: helped obstruct uh. You know, most of the things that

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Speaker 1: we consider uh Joe Biden's greatest accomplishments legislatively are things

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Speaker 1: that she co sponsored with Republicans. So I think she

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Speaker 1: actually has done a really interesting job of fitting into

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Speaker 1: that John McCain mantle. And and I wouldn't be surprised

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Speaker 1: if she tries to uh do the same thing electorally

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Speaker 1: in Arizona. Well, that's an important point by Rick that

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Speaker 1: she did end up voting for major accomplishments for the

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Speaker 1: Biden administration and mainstream Democrats. John to what would you

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Speaker 1: attribute this rift which is significant enough for her to

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Speaker 1: be a registered independent? Now? What what really is the

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Speaker 1: rift between Senator Cinema and Democrats? Yeah, thanks for having me,

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Speaker 1: and I'll say that Rick is exactly right. Senator Cinema has,

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Speaker 1: ranging from her victory speech in eighteen to her maiden

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Speaker 1: speech on the Senate floor after she was elected, she

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Speaker 1: cited Senator McCain quite often and continues to um. You know,

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Speaker 1: they don't see I they didn't see eye to eye

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Speaker 1: on a lot of policy, but she looked to him

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Speaker 1: as somewhat of a personal hero. And the one character

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Speaker 1: trait that she always pointed out about Senator McCain was

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Speaker 1: his willingness to do what he believed was right for

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Speaker 1: Arizona in the country, even if there was pressure in

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Speaker 1: his party or or either party to do something different.

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Speaker 1: And you know, with respect too, I think that your

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Speaker 1: previous guest, the professor, made some good points, but with respect,

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Speaker 1: I just have to disagree in terms of this being

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Speaker 1: about campaign politics. As somebody who knows Senator Cinema, who

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Speaker 1: worked for her for years and now counts myself as

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Speaker 1: a supporter and a friend of hers. What she is,

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Speaker 1: first and foremost is a policymaker. That's what her passion is.

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Speaker 1: She's kind of a walk when it comes to this stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I never have seen her happier, uh and more

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Speaker 1: engaged and more fulfilled than when she's sitting at the

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Speaker 1: table with the G ten UH negotiating the bipartisan infrastructure Law.

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Speaker 1: She worked with Senator Murphy on gun safety and mental health,

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Speaker 1: Senator Baldwin with marriage quality, the Chips Act. Her work

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Speaker 1: now with Senator tillis to protect dreamers. Um. That's where

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Speaker 1: she throught. She is that convener between the parties, and

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Speaker 1: so to me, what what was the impetus for this

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Speaker 1: decision on Center Cinemas part I don't actually look at

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Speaker 1: it as a rift explicitly between her and the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 1: I think she's looking at what's happening in both parties.

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Speaker 1: And it's really hard to look at these last few

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Speaker 1: years especially and not not see that it gets harder

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Speaker 1: every single day to get to that bipartisan sweet spot

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Speaker 1: of compromise. That, by the way, in my view, Senator

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Speaker 1: McCain was quite a champion of as well because of

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Speaker 1: those partisan pressures pulling us to the fringes in both

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. Right, some great

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Speaker 1: insights on I guess who is Senator Cursten Cinema? Is she? Uh?

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Speaker 1: In a sense the the Democratic John McCain and and

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Speaker 1: what does this mean in d C as well as

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Speaker 1: in Arizona politics. Coming up, we're gonna talk about Congress

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Speaker 1: is very very lengthy to do list. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you've noticed, but they have to avoid a shutdown

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Speaker 1: by next Friday. We've got a great panel and we'll

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Speaker 1: get into the latest in foreign policy as well. This

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg. Sound on on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: December sixteenth, one week from today is the deadline to

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Speaker 1: avoid a shutdown. Congress has to get moving. They are

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Speaker 1: not particularly close uh to a deal to fund the government,

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Speaker 1: but they've only got a week left. So let's get

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Speaker 1: into the details, uh, and the big picture of how

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Speaker 1: this is going to shake out, shake out and what

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Speaker 1: exactly they're waiting for. Guys. I'll give you a brief

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Speaker 1: introduction to this I've been on the hill asking about

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Speaker 1: it a number of times. UM. Republicans want to cut

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Speaker 1: non defense spending. They're okay with a deal to increase

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Speaker 1: military spending UH in the upcoming government funding package, but

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Speaker 1: they want a lower amount for domestic agencies than Democrats want.

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Speaker 1: And they're pointing to the big bills that Democrats have

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Speaker 1: already passed, the Inflation Reduction Act UH, the money that

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Speaker 1: went out in the stimulus in March. There is still

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Speaker 1: some lingering resentment and some some economic points that Republicans

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Speaker 1: have made about not wanting to allow an equivalent increase

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Speaker 1: in domestic agency funding levels. Rick Davis and John La

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Speaker 1: Bombard are with me. Rick is a Bloomberg Politics contributor

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Speaker 1: and a former John McCain campaign manager. John la Bombard

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Speaker 1: senior vice president at Rock Solutions and a former communications

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Speaker 1: director for Senator Kingston Cinema. Rick, I want to start

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Speaker 1: with you. Do you see any point in Republicans trying

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Speaker 1: in this lame duck session at least trying very hard

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Speaker 1: to strike a deal with Democrats to UH get a

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Speaker 1: government funding measure done. Or should they just do as

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Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy has said, kick it into next year? Republicans

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Speaker 1: will have the House, they'll have a bit more leverage.

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Speaker 1: Is there any point in Republicans working with Democrats? And

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Speaker 1: in these last couple of weeks, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: that uh. Certainly from the Senate side, I think there's

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Speaker 1: a real desire to get an omnibus. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that the two chairman UH and ranking UH members of

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Speaker 1: the Appropriations Committee want to have their last UH budget

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Speaker 1: go down as a continuing resolution. UH. And so I

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Speaker 1: think there's there is a sincere effort on the part

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Speaker 1: of leadership to not kick it downstream. UH. We we

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Speaker 1: know from the past, when we've done this before, that

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Speaker 1: the crs never turned out the way you want them

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Speaker 1: to write. There there tends to be a UM disproportionate

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Speaker 1: relationship between how much time goes by and what little

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Speaker 1: effort is made to pass a budget. And so this

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Speaker 1: is the pressure period. It's not surprising to me that

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Speaker 1: they haven't got a final top line number usually the

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Speaker 1: hard parts the defense bill and UH and and in

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Speaker 1: the defense number. But UH, the reality of this is, UH,

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Speaker 1: they can easily get an omnibus done if they can

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Speaker 1: just get to that number and then let it apply

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Speaker 1: to all the different uh categories of departments. Right, once

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Speaker 1: they agree on some basic numbers, here's what we want

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Speaker 1: to spend on the mill terry, Here's what we want

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Speaker 1: to spend on domestic agencies. That clearly seems to be

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Speaker 1: something that clears the way. Now, as I mentioned, the

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Speaker 1: deadline is next Friday, December six. I can tell you,

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Speaker 1: as somebody who has covered these before, the real deadline

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Speaker 1: tends to be lawmakers not wanting to work on Christmas.

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Speaker 1: The friday before Christmas is the twenty three Uh. John,

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Speaker 1: what do you see as the outlook for them accomplishing

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Speaker 1: something that doesn't ruin my personal holiday plans, which clearly

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Speaker 1: is the most important thing here, that is the priority.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you completely. Uh No, I I find

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Speaker 1: myself again agreeing with Rick here. This is um. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna remain optimistic. I think you know, those jet fumes

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Speaker 1: always impact, uh, you know, the thinking of members of

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Speaker 1: Congress who want to get out of town and spend

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Speaker 1: the holidays with their family as well. And in addition

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Speaker 1: to you know Rick's very good point that Center Shelby Center, Lahy,

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Speaker 1: this is kind of their last rodeo. They want to

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Speaker 1: get this done. The their long term perspective to keep

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Speaker 1: in mind here is if usink this uh potential omnibus

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Speaker 1: process is hard, just wait till next time when there's

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Speaker 1: a Republican Leadhouse of Representatives UM with a super close

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Speaker 1: margin a democratically controlled Senate with an equally very close margin. UM,

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Speaker 1: things could get wild next go around when we're trying

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Speaker 1: to keep the government open. So so as hard as

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Speaker 1: this seems, this could be kind of the easy part UM.

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Speaker 1: And I do remain optimistic only because a CR would

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Speaker 1: UH the numbers seem to indicate be pretty damaging for

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Speaker 1: veterans services, for the v A UH and for military

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Speaker 1: spending as well. You know, I really I tend to

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Speaker 1: think we'll probably see a little bit more posturing from

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Speaker 1: both sides, but hopefully getting that out of their system

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Speaker 1: will clear the way to actually get this done in

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Speaker 1: the form of an omnibus. As the pressure builds, I

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Speaker 1: think that seems to be the game of chicken that

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Speaker 1: forces somebody to make some concessions as we get closer

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Speaker 1: to the deadlines. Rick, what does Kevin McCarthy have to

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Speaker 1: gain or to lose here? I mentioned that he has

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Speaker 1: said we can just kick this into early next year.

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Speaker 1: And try to get on it. In January or February,

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Speaker 1: when he hopes to be the Speaker of the House,

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Speaker 1: it will be a Republican house. How how do you

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Speaker 1: see that? I guess political calculus playing out for Kevin McCarthy.

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Speaker 1: Does he need to come up with some sort of

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Speaker 1: win here in order to shore up his stance as

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Speaker 1: the leading contender to be speaker? How does this play

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Speaker 1: into that? You know, I'm actually surprised that economic issues

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Speaker 1: that that things like that haven't played more in the

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Speaker 1: public discourse of the leadership fight in the House. Um,

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Speaker 1: it really seems to be driven by personalities an ideology

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Speaker 1: and not by issues. Um, there's little he can actually

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Speaker 1: do to influence the Omnibus outcome. Uh if if they

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Speaker 1: come to a number and the Democrats hold tight in

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Speaker 1: the House to pass it, So I think he just

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Speaker 1: as soon keep it simple stupid, right, I mean, like

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Speaker 1: the fewer things that he has to talk to anybody

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Speaker 1: about right now to try and cobble together this to

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Speaker 1: eighteen the number of O team needs to be speaker, Uh?

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Speaker 1: Is is I think the only thing he's really focused on,

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Speaker 1: and from what I can tell, the calls he's making

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Speaker 1: two members. It's all they're talking about is leadership issues

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Speaker 1: and rules, not policy. And UM, I find it fascinating

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Speaker 1: because in the past, when we've had big speaker fights,

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Speaker 1: it's usually over a policy issue, and uh, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem to be the case in this one right well,

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Speaker 1: speaking of policy issues that are not really being discussed

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Speaker 1: or not the focus. Uh, there was quite a bit

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Speaker 1: of hubbub about the debt limit and the idea that

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Speaker 1: maybe Democrats would try to address that potentially on their

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Speaker 1: own in the lame duck, even though the deadline isn't

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Speaker 1: until well into next year. Um, John, why are Democrats

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Speaker 1: not pushing harder to get something done on the debt

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Speaker 1: limit on their own before there's a Republican House. Yeah, honestly,

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Speaker 1: I think that a lot of Democrats would want to. Um.

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Speaker 1: Certainly the Democrats I've worked with in the past. Center

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Speaker 1: Cinema in particular was um very interested whenever this is

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Speaker 1: issue has cropped up to find a way to kind

432
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 1: of diffuse that metaphorical time bomb that could do some

433
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 1: truly extensive damage to our economy, ranging from pension benefits

434
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: to you know, jobs and and and the wealth of Frankly,

435
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: everyday ordinary people. Um. But the next thing is the

436
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: most important thing, and that's literally keeping the lights on

437
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 1: in the federal government. UM. There's other issues that throughout

438
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: this lame duck I think leadership in both chambers really

439
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: wants to see addressed. There's even, you know, hope springs eternal,

440
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: and while it will be really hard to see this done,

441
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: there's even hope for a bipartisan paths forward on some

442
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: kind of immigration policy to boost border security and protect dreamers. UM.

443
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily predicting that that's going to be easy,

444
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: but there's just a lot on the plate for folks

445
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: in both chambers. And as much as this Congress has been,

446
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: in my view, remarkably productive in terms of legislation that

447
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: has gotten done and passed, there's always more to do.

448
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 1: I certainly wish that we would sort of take this

449
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 1: time bomb off the table permanently. UM. I'm not sure

450
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: if that's a popular position, but it just seems like

451
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: we're playing games with the national and even global economy

452
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: on two regular basis, and if there was more time,

453
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 1: I think Democratic leaders would love to address it. Well.

454
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: I know what you just said is a pretty popular

455
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: thing with some Democrats. I wanna know what you know

456
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: about Senator Cinema's position on this and in particular whether

457
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: they can get rid of the debt limit or not.

458
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: Where where do you think she would come down on

459
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: addressing this Democrats only through the reconciliation process, I asked,

460
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: because Joe Manchin has said no, this should be bipartisan.

461
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 1: Is Cinema somebody who might consider doing this to get

462
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: it off the table in a partisan way? Well, my

463
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: experience with Center Cinema related to the debt ceiling, uh

464
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 1: and and to a degree also government funding. To her,

465
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: those are truly monumentally important issues. Right, keeping the government

466
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: open is important. That's Congress's primary function, UH and their

467
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: number one task. The debt ceiling in particular is just

468
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: has the potential to be so catastrophic for so many

469
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: people that I have never heard her drawn the red

470
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: lines around those issues about how they should be addressed. Um.

471
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: You know, certainly Center Cinema's preference is always for legislation

472
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: to be bipartisan, because that's how we get lasting results

473
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: that don't just get reversed by the next Congress. The

474
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 1: debt ceiling obviously occupies a slightly different place. This is

475
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,239
Speaker 1: something that pops up perennially for both parties that are

476
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: in charge, and both parties tend to struggle if the

477
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: minority party tries to exercise its will over raising the

478
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: debt's going. So my guess is that if there's any

479
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: opportunity to address the debt ceiling, Senator Cinema would not hesitate.

480
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: But that's just a guess. Well, that is an important

481
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: guess and some important insights because even if they don't

482
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: do this in the Lamb Duck, that's going to be

483
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: very important next year. You're listening to Bloomberg sound On

484
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. W NBA star Brittany Grinder is back

485
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: in the US. That was big news yesterday in the

486
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: swap for Victor Boot, the Russian arms dealer accused of

487
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: supplying weapons to al Qaeda and the Taliban, among others.

488
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: Paul Wheeland, the Marine Corps veteran arrested in accused of spying,

489
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: is still held in Russia. And yes, this big news

490
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: is subject to some political debate, uh some I don't

491
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: know if we'll call it Monday morning quarterback, And clearly

492
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: a difficult situation, but some doubts about whether this was

493
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: the fairest trade, whether this was even uh. The former

494
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: Defense Secretary William Cohen had this to say about Vladimir

495
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: Putin's stance on all of this, were Republicans are saying, Wow,

496
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: this really rewards Putin. He's stronger. He's not stronger, He's weak,

497
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: and we all stopped saying how strong he is and

498
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: building Russia up. Russia is the enemy of freedom UH

499
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: and liberty for individuals, and we're seeing that play out.

500
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: I'm joined now by Joel Rubin, the former deputy Assistant

501
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: Secretary of State in the Bush and Obama Administration's perfect

502
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: person to talk to about making sense of this decision

503
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: uh and the level of disappointment with an American who

504
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: is still in Russia. U. Joel, thank you so much

505
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: for joining us. What do you make of this? Uh?

506
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: Including those comments by former Secretary Cohen? Was this an

507
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: even trade? Here? Here to Secretary Cohen, because it's it's

508
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: really uh frustrating, frankly to hear people complain about American

509
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: being brought home who's in in captivity abroad, uh and

510
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: using it for political purposes to try to to criticize

511
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: the Biden administration. And I think John Bolden for example,

512
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: was criticizing it. Well, John Bolden passed on on doing

513
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: a deal in two thousand and eighteen to get Paul

514
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: Wheeling out early on, and uh, um, you know, getting

515
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: getting Britney grinder out was a high priority. And kudos

516
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: to the President for making a tough call and having

517
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: his team negotiate this this end state. And uh, it's tough,

518
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: but it's needed and it was a good move. Well.

519
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: Second day politics aside, what does this say about the

520
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: relationship between the US and Russia, between Vladimir Putin and

521
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: Joe Biden? Is this in any way a sign of

522
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: um easing tensions or what can we make of that? Yeah,

523
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,959
Speaker 1: you know, Jack, I think this is really the core point, right, Like,

524
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: this relationship is in addiction and even lower than the dicks.

525
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: Right now, the United States is actively and we are

526
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 1: appropriately actively supporting Ukraine in defending its territory against Russia.

527
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: Russia is losing on the battlefield. It's now turned to

528
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: Iran to become its weapons supplier of choice. And uh,

529
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: essentially just using drones to bomb civilian areas inside Keep

530
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: without military value, just to freeze and star of Ukrainians

531
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: for no real strategic purpose. So things are bad. Without

532
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: a doubt. Vladimir Putin is losing. He knows it. His

533
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: people don't want to fight this war. He's looking for

534
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: any salve that he can get, So for him, getting

535
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: Victor boot out is a sort of a temporary victory.

536
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: But really the trajectory of this conflict is in no way,

537
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: shape or form change today, and it's going in the

538
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: wrong direction for Russia. The problem is is how long

539
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: can Russia continue to create pain for innocent Ukrainian civilians?

540
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: And that it seems like Putin has a lot of patients. Well,

541
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: I have to ask you, especially because I know you've

542
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: got a background working on nuclear security issues, given past

543
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: the past comments by Putin alluding to the possibility of

544
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: using nuclear weapons, how would you characterize the conversation of

545
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: the state of play on on nuclear in this context?

546
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: I mean, he really has recklessly thrown around language about

547
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: use of nuclear weapons, the world's most dangerous weapons weapons

548
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: that if it's discharged, and the two to a couple

549
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: of hundred, according to the Union of Concerned Scientists, we'd

550
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: have a nuclear winter, killing a billion people. Uh at

551
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: the United States and Russia between our two countries own

552
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: about ninety plus percent of the world's nuclear weapons, so

553
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: he's reckless in his language. It's a sign of desperation.

554
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: The United States nuclear arsenal is much more potent and

555
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: powerful and effective. Uh And interestingly, just yesterday Putin made

556
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: some comments essentially trying to steer away now from that rhetoric,

557
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: understanding full well that there is zero support inside the

558
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: Kremlin for a nuclear war that would annihilate Russia. But

559
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: it is dangerous and reckless rhetoric, and it demonstrates a

560
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: real uncertainty about his country's military capacity at this stage.

561
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: And trying to use that to extort, threatened, and intimidate

562
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: was his intent. It did not work by any stretch.

563
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: He did not push back on military support for Ukraine's sovereignty.

564
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: And I think we're seeing now that prudent understands that

565
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: it's a threat that's really not worth actually putting into effect.

566
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,239
Speaker 1: Well in case there are further discussions on this, not

567
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: on the nuclear topic, but on people held in Russia.

568
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: I'm curious what what comes next for a Paul wheel

569
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: And let me play you this comment from his brother,

570
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: David Wheeling. He is very disappointed that he was left

571
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: behind again. This is the second time that an American

572
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: has has been released from Russia and that Paul didn't

573
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: come home. UM. I hope that he understands that, you know,

574
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: there are other factors that caused it to happen. UM.

575
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: But I think it must be very hard for his

576
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: mental health and to figure out how he can continue

577
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: to survive day to day UM with that sort of disappointment.

578
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: So Joel, what what do you how would you characterize

579
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: the outlook in the near future or the foreseeable future

580
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: as it relates to any discussions on Paul Wheeling. It's

581
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: very tough. It truly is. Paul wheel And now twice

582
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: has seen other Americans leave and he's he's still held

583
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: captive there in in Russia, in in Iran, they're running Americans.

584
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: There are Americans that have been held in Cuba and

585
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: North Korea, still in Syria. It's very difficult, it's painstaking. UH.

586
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: The executive branches. State's Department has a leading presidential envoy

587
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: in charge of what they call hostage affairs. Multiple as

588
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: these are involved the White House. UH. It's a full

589
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: full effort to try to spring these these these unjustly

590
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: detained individuals, But without a doubt, Vladimir Prutin is going

591
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: to milk this. He is looking for more concessions. He

592
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: did not get any concessions on anything related to American

593
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: support for Ukraine as part of this deal North should

594
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: he have. It's painful. We can have nothing but sympathy

595
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: for the wheel and family and and for for Paul

596
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 1: at this moment. But certainly there are assets available out there.

597
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,959
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna now see a more focused negotiation

598
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: just about him. Now that one person is out, it's

599
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: one less variable to have to worry about, right Joel Rubin,

600
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: former Deputy Assistant secretary at the State Department, thank you

601
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. I want to wrap this

602
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 1: one up with our panel because we've got Rick Davis,

603
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor and former John McCain campaign manager with us,

604
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: and and Rick, I just want to hear your thoughts

605
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 1: briefly on the Republican criticisms that have come out from

606
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: the likes of Tom Cotton on on this prisoner exchange.

607
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: What what what is at play here when you hear

608
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,959
Speaker 1: Republicans say that kind of thing. Yeah, I'm a little

609
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: surprised by Senator Cotton's remarks, because look, this is this

610
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 1: is a situation has plagued both administrations Republican and Democratic alike.

611
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: And you know, as Joel has described, UH, it's very situational.

612
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 1: There's a really good group of people who are charged

613
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 1: with the UH hostage affairs that work over time to

614
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: ensure that Americans have the best chance they have of

615
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: liberty and getting out of these incarcerations, and and and

616
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: the reality is taking political advantage of something like this

617
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: at this time really doesn't help UH any of these

618
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: hostages or Paul Whalen specifically. We had a tough issue

619
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: that we will stay on going forward with a lot

620
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: of interest in Paul Wheeland still held in Russia. Thanks

621
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: again to Joel Rold Reuben for joining us in this segment.

622
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: Coming up, we gotta make the little lighter. On a

623
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: Friday afternoon, we'll talk about the latest from NASA. I'm

624
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 1: Jack Fitzpatrick. This is Bloomberg. About five thousand degrees fahrenheit

625
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: and roughly roughly twenty thousand miles per hour. That's how

626
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: fast on Sunday a spacecraft is going to enter Earth's atmosphere.

627
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: This is the Orion spacecraft. UH supposed to splash down

628
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: on Sunday in the Pacific Ocean. A nice little accomplishment

629
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: to see that happen. This is the unmanned ship that

630
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: is sort of paving the way for an eventual Artemis

631
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,760
Speaker 1: three project to send people back to the Moon. Here's

632
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,720
Speaker 1: how NASA Administrator Bill Nelson described what's coming up this weekend.

633
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: We want to know that that heats your works at

634
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: about five thousand degrees parent height um, almost half as

635
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: hot as the sun come in in at thirty two March.

636
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 1: So I I did the math on thirty two mock

637
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: two miles per hour. Some public service journalism there in

638
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: translating that. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick filling in for Joe Matthew

639
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: today rounding out your Friday with Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics

640
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: contributor and former John McCain campaign manager and John la Bombard,

641
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: senior vice president at Rock Solutions and a former communications

642
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: director for Senator Kirsten Cinema. I have to ask the

643
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: political angle of this. I love watching these things just

644
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: when they happen, but Rick can use sum up. As

645
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: the federal government gears toward an eventual mission to Mars,

646
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: this Artemis program is gearing up for an eventual mission

647
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: with people going to the moon. Again, what is the

648
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: political significance of this, if it's symbolic or if it's

649
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: a major achievement for whoever's president at the time, what's

650
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: the political lens on sending people back to the moon

651
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: and eventually to Mars. Know. Ever since President Kennedy challenged,

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00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 1: you know, our corporations and government to join together to

653
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: go to the moon. Uh, I think it's always been

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00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 1: like this big think thing for a president. Right. Oh,

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00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: I just love to be able to get beyond the

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00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: confines of the political gravity of the United States and

657
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: what we do every day and and and and think big.

658
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: And I think this is exactly that. I don't think

659
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: people's thirst for adventure has changed much since then. And uh,

660
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: this is one of the few things that seems right

661
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 1: now to be kind of non political and and it's

662
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: refreshing because it shows in technical technological prowess at the

663
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: United States has in this area. But I think also,

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00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: you know, at some point there's going to be a

665
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: big debate on sort of what is space to us?

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00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: And you know, both from a security perspective, from an

667
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: environmental sustainabilities perspective from uh, A lot of different resources

668
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: are available. So I'm very excited about the fact that

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00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: right now this is sort of a i'm an interest

670
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: by anybody who's part of a party, and uh, I

671
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: hope it stays that way. And and John, I'm curious

672
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: how you see this playing into you know, President Biden

673
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: has played up funding for federal research and development. I mean,

674
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: where where are we headed with the federal government's role

675
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: in the sciences And what does this say about that? Oh? Yeah,

676
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: I mean this is the news that I'm here for.

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00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: What what Hassa is doing with Artemis and with the

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00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: other missions and incredible news that they're creating over the

679
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: past year. I mean, this is, as Rick said, just

680
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: the stuff that unites us as human beings. It's it's

681
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: beyond party, it's beyond nation. We are explorers and we

682
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: are daring and we break down these barriers. And look,

683
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not the youngest guy anymore, but I

684
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: really feel like I missed my era with the old

685
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: Apollo missions, and I just I long for these days

686
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: where all of us as human beings are looking up

687
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: at the stars united um and see these kind of

688
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: adventures play out. I think whether it's President Biden or

689
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: president of any party, I mean, let's just say we're lucky.

690
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,240
Speaker 1: I am not in Congress because I would be dumping

691
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: all the money into NASA that they don't even need.

692
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: I just think this is the kind of stuff that

693
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: as human beings we need to be doing, and I'm

694
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: so so excited for the work that NASA is doing

695
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: these days. It is a generational thing. I'll point out

696
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,240
Speaker 1: that an early memory I was pretty young the last

697
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: time John Glenn went to space. I I could not

698
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: forget it. Didn't see people go to the moon. But

699
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: maybe someday I will. Thank you guys for your insights.

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Speaker 1: Rick Davis, John la Bombard, Thank you again to Joel

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00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: Ruben and Samara Flaer in Arizona. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg