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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants Huddle on giants

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Speaker 1: dot com, part of the Giants Podcast Net. Were welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the Giants Rewind and the Giants Huddle podcast. Folks.

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Speaker 1: This is our final Giants Rewind podcast, So if you're

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Speaker 1: a subscriber, make sure you go and you subscribe to

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Speaker 1: the Giants Huddle. Will still have all the same great

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Speaker 1: guests we have on Giants Rewind, whether it's Sean O'Hara

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Speaker 1: will be with me in a second, Karl Banks, Howard

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Speaker 1: across David Deal will get you doing those under the

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Speaker 1: Giants Huddle label, So make sure you go there and

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Speaker 1: you subscribe whatever podcast service you happen to have. So

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Speaker 1: we're drawn by Sean O'Hara and showing of course, the

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Speaker 1: Giants Podcast Network is presented by Investors Bank. You can

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Speaker 1: find the archive of this show on all of our

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Speaker 1: podcast at giants dot com, Slash Podcast to Jihan's Mollblap

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Speaker 1: and all your favorite podcast platforms. So we're kind of

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Speaker 1: right before the chaos starts here, Sean. We've got about

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Speaker 1: a week until free agency opens and then of course

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Speaker 1: the draft a couple of months after that. What are

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Speaker 1: your main thoughts here with the Giants as to what

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Speaker 1: they're thinking about are heading into this offseason. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a great question, John, And and what a strange time,

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Speaker 1: not just from a pandemic standpoint, but from the standpoint

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Speaker 1: that there was no combine, and you know, not having

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Speaker 1: the combine, obviously you can't see the players. You can't

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Speaker 1: evaluate these kids coming out. You don't get a chance

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Speaker 1: to see him up close to personal, talk to them,

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Speaker 1: visit with them, find out if they love the game. Um,

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Speaker 1: but then the medical aspect of it as well. You

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Speaker 1: don't get that evaluation. But you also don't get the

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Speaker 1: conversations that happen organically between teams or even Hey, you

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Speaker 1: guys have a player that's a free agent or and

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Speaker 1: you're not resigning them? Why or what? You know? Where

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Speaker 1: we like him? What? What should we know about him?

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Speaker 1: So show it. A lot happens at those bars and

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Speaker 1: Indianapolis at one o'clock in the morning. Well, you know, look,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you do in Indianapolis, but I'm

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Speaker 1: a stake a shake, um, so you know it's I

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Speaker 1: tell you what. People spill their beans over some French

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Speaker 1: fries and a milkshake at one am no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: So it's you know that aspect of it. It's going

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Speaker 1: to change everything. And now obviously in the virtual world

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Speaker 1: everybody everything has to go through, uh, through Zoom and Skype.

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Speaker 1: But it's definitely gonna be an interesting free agency because

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Speaker 1: we don't have that foundation. Now for the Giants, it's

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Speaker 1: a very interesting point to be in because they don't

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Speaker 1: have a ton of cap space, so free agency, they

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Speaker 1: can't really be super aggressive because they just don't have

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Speaker 1: the room to do that. So, uh, it's definitely an

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Speaker 1: interesting time, you know. I think first and foremost, the

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Speaker 1: Giants have to figure out what are they doing with

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Speaker 1: Leonard Williams. I think that Domino is a big part

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Speaker 1: of their off season puzzle. And if they're able to

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Speaker 1: work out some sort of long term deal and and

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Speaker 1: a cap friendly deal, then they they'll have some other options.

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Speaker 1: But if if they can't and they end up losing

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Speaker 1: their best defensive player, I don't know that they can

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Speaker 1: afford to go out and buy a big defensive uh

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Speaker 1: you know, playmaker like Leonard uh um, So they're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to to try to find some more veteran guys

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Speaker 1: kind of like what they did with Kylo fac Roll

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Speaker 1: and um and see if they can find some value picks.

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Speaker 1: But that's gonna make the draft even more important. And

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Speaker 1: I think one of the challenges right now, Man, imagine

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Speaker 1: being a general manager and you have probably half of

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Speaker 1: the film on some of these big time draft picks. Um.

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Speaker 1: And for the Giants, they don't have a ton of

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Speaker 1: draft picks, um. But you know, you you really have

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Speaker 1: to do your homework on these first and second rounders.

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Speaker 1: Let's circle back to Lyndard Williams for a second, because

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Speaker 1: you're right, I think it's it's kind of the key

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Speaker 1: to the whole deal here, right Are you approaching him

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Speaker 1: as though he's a player that has now broken out

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Speaker 1: and maybe not double digit sacks every year because that's

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Speaker 1: just tough for a defensive tackle, right, but eight sacks

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Speaker 1: a year? Or do you look at it all right,

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Speaker 1: this is a career year, or maybe he's gonna drop

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Speaker 1: back down or is it the system that makes them work?

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Speaker 1: Just how do you view Williams given the eleven and

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Speaker 1: a half sacks last year is just such an outlier

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Speaker 1: compared to the rest of his career. Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: that I would look at Leonard Williams and say he's

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Speaker 1: a double digit sack guy every single year, and I

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Speaker 1: just don't think that's that's not a knock on his

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Speaker 1: ability or his talent, it's the position that he plays.

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Speaker 1: Very few defensive tackles are are averaging double digit sacks

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Speaker 1: that aren't named Aaron Donald. So I look at it

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Speaker 1: and I say it's probably more in between what he

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Speaker 1: did last year and what he had done previously. But

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Speaker 1: when you look at not just the sacks job, I

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Speaker 1: look at at the quarterback hits and the pressures over

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Speaker 1: the last two years, that's been the most consistent factor.

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Speaker 1: And you know, look, I know as an offensive linement,

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Speaker 1: and look, there's times where you get beat and the

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Speaker 1: ball is out and so no harm, no foul. As

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Speaker 1: a defensive linement, that's the most frustrating thing. When you

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Speaker 1: make a good move, you beat a guy and you

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Speaker 1: get home and the ball is out and it's a

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Speaker 1: quarterback hit as opposed to a sack. Um you know,

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Speaker 1: that can be frustrating. But for Leonard Williams, I think

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Speaker 1: the way that he played the run as well as

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Speaker 1: the past was extremely impressive and he was downright unblockable.

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Speaker 1: So the question for for the Giants, and really for

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Speaker 1: Leonard Williams is what is he trying to place his

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Speaker 1: value on? Is he valuing himself as a pass rusher

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Speaker 1: and that's what we're gonna focus on or are we

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Speaker 1: focusing on? Look, he is an every down defensive linement.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't come off the field. If that's the case,

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Speaker 1: you could pay him more than just somebody who was

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Speaker 1: a one trick pony. So I think the versatility in

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Speaker 1: this defense is why Leonard Williams thrived and why why

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Speaker 1: he's such a great fit for what Patrick Graham is

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Speaker 1: doing because he can play pretty much anywhere across the

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Speaker 1: board and you can do it effectively. Um. You know.

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Speaker 1: The tough thing is I think if you're the Giants,

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Speaker 1: you'd probably love the franchise, tag him and and play that.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's see if we can parley this into another

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Speaker 1: big year. But it's such a high cap number and

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Speaker 1: and for the Giants, they're already up against it, so

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Speaker 1: it would behoove them financially to to do a long

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Speaker 1: term deal. Um. But with if you're Leonard Williams, you've

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Speaker 1: been waiting for five years for this opportunity. Um, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna want to test it and see what's out there,

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Speaker 1: and then the trick to your point, if you have

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Speaker 1: to put the tag on them, then it becomes very,

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Speaker 1: very difficult to resign Dalvin Tomlinson, who is a teammate

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Speaker 1: of his just as important to the defense, just in

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Speaker 1: a different way, different role, same position, But he's a

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Speaker 1: guy in a defensive tackle market showing that, frankly is

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Speaker 1: not very deep, He's gonna be sought after. So just

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Speaker 1: from a team building perspective, can you dedicate that many

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Speaker 1: resources up front? You have Dexter Lawrence already on the

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Speaker 1: roster as a as a former first round pick, or

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Speaker 1: do you have to then decide, all right, as much

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Speaker 1: as we love Dalvin, we it's better to use those

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Speaker 1: resources elsewhere. How do you just view that whole situation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a great question. Dalvin Thompson was a second round pick, right,

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Speaker 1: b J. Hill was I think a fifth rounder, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, and then you look at Desha Lawrence and

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Speaker 1: he was seventeenth overall. So it kind of looks like

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Speaker 1: the Giants have already been layering themselves for a situation

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Speaker 1: like this. You know, you might say, look, we're going

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Speaker 1: with b J. Hill and Dalva and you know, we

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Speaker 1: can try to get Dalvin Thomason back, but even if

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Speaker 1: we lose him, maybe we replace him with a draft pick,

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Speaker 1: another you know, second or third round player. So you

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Speaker 1: know that that's where the moneyball aspect of it really

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Speaker 1: comes into it. But if you don't, if you lose

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Speaker 1: Leonard Williams, then now you say, all we we need

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Speaker 1: to keep Dalvin Thomason and all and try to bring

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Speaker 1: in somebody else like a Coan short Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: or a Sheldon Rankins from the Saints. So I think

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Speaker 1: that's you know, you gotta kind of figure out, all right,

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Speaker 1: what are we doing Leonard, and then that will dictate

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Speaker 1: how we're doing everybody else. How do you prioritize that

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Speaker 1: we'll sending the defensive side of the ball, that second

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Speaker 1: cornerback spot, which is kind of a just a game

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Speaker 1: of musical chairs last year for the most part, is

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Speaker 1: that critical you think to upgrade that second quarterback spot

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Speaker 1: And how much how many resources, whether it's draft or

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Speaker 1: free agency, do you dedicate to it. Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 1: great question. I think when you look at what James

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Speaker 1: Bradbury was able to do for the Giants and solidify

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Speaker 1: that corner position. That's a huge, huge pickup, and obviously

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Speaker 1: it was a big con track too. So I think

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Speaker 1: if you're the Giants, you're kind of hesitant to pay

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Speaker 1: another corner a lot of money because you have so

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Speaker 1: much already invested in that position. On the other side,

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Speaker 1: I think for the Giants, you know, look, I think

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Speaker 1: that Darnay Holmes that they hit a home run with him.

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Speaker 1: I think he's he's got a really big upside. Uh

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Speaker 1: He's a special kid, and and you know, I would

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Speaker 1: be tempted to kind of move him the outside. Sam Beale,

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Speaker 1: who opted out last year, is going to be coming back,

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Speaker 1: and I know they really liked his athletic ability. So

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Speaker 1: I think from the Giants standpoint, create some competition out

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Speaker 1: there that will make everybody better. And they also have

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Speaker 1: some really versatile players in Xavier McKinney and Logan Ryan

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Speaker 1: who could move out to corner if you need to. Hey,

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Speaker 1: Giant fans, don't forget. Limited gizs and Giant season tickets

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Speaker 1: are on sale now for the one season. In addition

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Speaker 1: to ticket savings, membership benefits include access to exclusive events, experiences,

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Speaker 1: d I C all right, so let's shift over the

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Speaker 1: offense now, where Dave Gettleman and Joe Judge and John

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Speaker 1: Barra all made it very clear in their postseason press

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Speaker 1: conferences that this team needs to add a playmaker. So

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Speaker 1: I guess my question for you is it just add

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Speaker 1: a playmaker or do they need to add a legit

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Speaker 1: number one playmaker, whether it's a wide receiver or somewhere else. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I agree the Giants that they need offense, that they

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Speaker 1: need somebody that can move the needle. And when se

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Speaker 1: Kwon Barkley went down last year, I think the entire

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Speaker 1: offensive identity shifted, and um, they really were kind of left,

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Speaker 1: you know, with just trying to pick up the pieces

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Speaker 1: and figure out how can we be functional. So there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of really good wide receivers out there right now,

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Speaker 1: and you know, like probably one of my favorites right

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Speaker 1: now is Allen Robinson. The question is just you know,

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Speaker 1: what are the Bears gonna do? If you're Matt Neege,

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Speaker 1: I can't believe he would want to let his best

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Speaker 1: defensive player, you know, hit free agency. Um, but I

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Speaker 1: think that's yet to be determined. Obviously Allen Robinson would

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Speaker 1: be a huge pickup, but there's some really quality wide

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Speaker 1: receivers out there as well. Obviously Kenny Galladay for the

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Speaker 1: Detroit Lions, UM, he could be in the same situation.

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Speaker 1: But a guy like Marvin Jones is a very capable

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Speaker 1: wide receiver and somebody that can give that offense the production.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he's not, you know, uh Davante Adams number one

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Speaker 1: receiver from that standpoint, or maybe not as explosive as

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Speaker 1: Kenny galladhy, but eighteen touchdowns in the last two years

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Speaker 1: is something I'm sure the Giants would love to have.

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Speaker 1: The tough thing with the Giants offenses, you know, you

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Speaker 1: want a playmaker, where are you gonna put him? Because

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Speaker 1: Sterling Shepard is your slot guy, Darius Slayton is your

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Speaker 1: is your speed receiver, but defenses were able to take

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Speaker 1: Darius Layton away and too many times he disappeared on

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Speaker 1: game day and that can't happen. So for the Giants,

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Speaker 1: they need somebody that can create that matchup, that nightmare

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Speaker 1: matchup um. But then it's flexible enough to be outside

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Speaker 1: as well as move inside when you need him too.

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Speaker 1: So I think for that the Giants need to do that.

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Speaker 1: And then also they need to they need to bring

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Speaker 1: in a running back that can be a good one

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Speaker 1: to punch for Sakewan Barkley, because it's to me, it's

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Speaker 1: not just kn' sa Kwan come back healthy. It's I

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Speaker 1: don't want him to have three fifty touches in a

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Speaker 1: year where he just came off an a c L injury.

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Speaker 1: So if you're looking at Sea Kwon Barkley, I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at him from a long term standpoint. He's not going anywhere.

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Speaker 1: I don't want him to play for any other team ever.

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Speaker 1: I want to prolong Sakekwon Barkley's career. So I think

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Speaker 1: the Giants are gonna have to be aggressive and bringing

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Speaker 1: in another running back. Would you feel okay about just

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Speaker 1: waiting for the draft and using that to add a playmaker.

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Speaker 1: We've seen the last few years, how even in the

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Speaker 1: second round you can find really good wide receivers. A. J.

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Speaker 1: Brown was a second round pick, Deebo, Samuel DK Metcalf

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Speaker 1: go down the list as a bunch of them. Are

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Speaker 1: you comfortable with that given how wide receivers are really

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Speaker 1: transitioning better? Now, Sean Our, would you want to add

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Speaker 1: more of a sure thing in free agency? I think

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Speaker 1: right now I would take the shut thing. I think.

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Speaker 1: You know, to your point, yeah, you can find some

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Speaker 1: good receivers in the second round, and that's great, But

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Speaker 1: in a pandemic situation where you have less time, give

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Speaker 1: me the shirt thing all day long, right now, you know?

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Speaker 1: And I think when you kind of look at and

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Speaker 1: there's some good receivers coming out in this draft, you know,

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Speaker 1: and you look at Davante Smith down in Alabama. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know this guy was playing behind Jerry Judy and

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Speaker 1: Henry Ruggs. Um, so you know he's a talented kid. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know there there there's some good receivers out there

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Speaker 1: that you can get in the draft, but you just

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Speaker 1: don't know how long it's going to take them to

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Speaker 1: become that game changer. And you know, you saw Ceedee

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Speaker 1: Lamb down on Dallas. You know, the first couple of

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Speaker 1: games of the season, he was trying to get his

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Speaker 1: bearings and figure things out. His second half of the

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Speaker 1: season was much stronger. I don't know that the Giants

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Speaker 1: can wait that long. You know, when you look at

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Speaker 1: last year how things started out, it was it was

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Speaker 1: a brutal and rough start. Um, you know, for the

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Speaker 1: entire offense, and in the second half of the season

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Speaker 1: they were a different offense. You can't risk that, and

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Speaker 1: you can't you can't afford to have a slow start

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Speaker 1: this year. All right, let's finish with the offensive on

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Speaker 1: here Sean Because to me, I think it's an interesting conundrum,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's kind of a good one if

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Speaker 1: you understand where I'm going with this, Because they have

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Speaker 1: a lot of young guys that they drafted, whether it's

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Speaker 1: Will Hernandez, former second round pick, Shane lem You, Andrew Thomas,

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Speaker 1: Matt Parrott last year, all draft picks. We don't Andrew

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Speaker 1: Thomas plug and play left tackle. Go get him, kid,

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Speaker 1: But the rest of these guys, you want to give

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Speaker 1: him a chance to grow and earn a starting role

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Speaker 1: if they're good enough. But at the same time, you

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Speaker 1: don't want to depend on them to be the starter, right,

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Speaker 1: So how do you think they navigate this offseason where

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Speaker 1: you give those guys a chance to improve and earn

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Speaker 1: a starting spot if they're good enough, but at the

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Speaker 1: same time have somebody there that gives you at least

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Speaker 1: a high baseline level of play in case maybe those

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Speaker 1: guys don't develop the way you want. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: the biggest aspect of it is chemistry and competition, and

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Speaker 1: and then you need to bring in players they're gonna

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Speaker 1: push them. And just because you started x amount of

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Speaker 1: games as a rookie doesn't mean that in year two

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Speaker 1: anything he's given to you. Uh, You've got to earn

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Speaker 1: all that. So I think that the offensive line to

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Speaker 1: me that finished in the second half of the season

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Speaker 1: was a completely different group than we saw in the

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Speaker 1: first eight games. But I think the key to that

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Speaker 1: whole offensive line puzzles Nick Gates and Nick Gates and

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Speaker 1: Daniel Jones in this offense not being fooled by anything.

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Speaker 1: And in year two, that's the most important part of

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Speaker 1: this because it doesn't matter who you put it in

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Speaker 1: a guard and a tackle if they're not all working

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Speaker 1: together and they don't all know who they're going through.

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Speaker 1: From a blocking standpoint, it's not gonna work. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's where we saw the Giants offensive identity struggle

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Speaker 1: last year was there were too many times that they

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Speaker 1: were dysfunctional and beat themselves. That can't happen. But I

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Speaker 1: think the group and the culture that they've started to

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Speaker 1: create that started last year was that their physical group,

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Speaker 1: they love to compete. Shane Lemieu, I love watching film

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Speaker 1: on him. I thought he was very contagious and I

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Speaker 1: thought when he came in next to Andrew Thomas and

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Speaker 1: Nick Gates, I thought it was it was a real

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Speaker 1: spark plug to that offense. Now, the interesting piece to

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Speaker 1: this is gonna be Will Hernanda is a where does

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Speaker 1: he fit? Because he can play right guard and you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that that competition I talked about, either Will

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Speaker 1: Hernanna is gonna step up and and and his play

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Speaker 1: is going to improve, or he's gonna end up being

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Speaker 1: a backup and not be able to get on the field.

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Speaker 1: So uh, it's it's gonna be good for the group.

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Speaker 1: Um as well as you know Daniel Jones in this

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Speaker 1: offense in year two, how ready do you think Parrot

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Speaker 1: and Lemieux specifically are two stepping in and being full

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Speaker 1: time starters to begin the year. Yeah, I think Shane

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Speaker 1: lemiuse ready. I think he proved it last year with

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Speaker 1: the way that he came in and you know, look,

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Speaker 1: there are some things he can certainly improve on his past,

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Speaker 1: his past sets in his hands and just getting bigger

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Speaker 1: and stronger. Uh, same thing with Parrot. And I think

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Speaker 1: the big thing with Parrot is that he's a tall

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Speaker 1: guy with long arms, and he gets in trouble when

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Speaker 1: he starts bending at the waist. So you know that's

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Speaker 1: something that he can really work with the footwork with

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Speaker 1: the technique. UM. But I'm really looking forward to seeing

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Speaker 1: I thought Matt Parrot was was very stout, UM and

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Speaker 1: I thought he showed that he was a lot stronger

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Speaker 1: than people thought he was. And you are resident center expert,

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Speaker 1: you're good with Nick Gates at center or would you

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Speaker 1: rather maybe slide him to guard and bringing another center?

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Speaker 1: I think Nick Gates is a better center than a guard,

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Speaker 1: so I don't like moving him out to guard. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I think the thing when Nick Gates is you know,

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Speaker 1: it centers a different world. Things happen up close and personal.

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Speaker 1: I call it c QB right close quarters combat UM,

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Speaker 1: and I think, you know, once he kind of settled

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Speaker 1: into that and realized how to use his hands, he

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Speaker 1: got better. The mental side of the game is always

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Speaker 1: the big task, and I think for him there were

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Speaker 1: too many times where the center and the guards were

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Speaker 1: not on the same page, the running back wasn't on

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Speaker 1: the same page, the quarterback didn't seem to be on

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Speaker 1: the same page. So that side of it's got to improve.

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Speaker 1: And I think that in year two he can handle that. UM.

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Speaker 1: But just like I said about Matt Parrot and Shane Lemieu,

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Speaker 1: you know, he can get bigger, he can get stronger,

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Speaker 1: and I think that you know, look, he's an athletic

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Speaker 1: kid who played tackle in college. UM, he can handle

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. But this should be a big off

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Speaker 1: season for him, and real quickly the people talk about

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Speaker 1: whether or not for salary cap purposes, you maybe have

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Speaker 1: to move on from Kevin Zeisler. He's obviously under contract,

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Speaker 1: was a good player last year. Can you afford them

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Speaker 1: to do that, Sean, because then you have to bring

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Speaker 1: somebody else in in theory? Or do you trust Hernando

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Speaker 1: Is on the munemn Those two guard spots. How do

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Speaker 1: you view that whole situation. Yeah, that's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: tough one for both Kevin's eiler and the Giants to

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Speaker 1: figure out. Because if your zeisler, you know, you may

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Speaker 1: not want to go to another team, and you may

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Speaker 1: be willing to restructure or renegotiate if if that means

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Speaker 1: you can you know, you can stay and not have

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Speaker 1: to move the family. So there's definitely gonna have to

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Speaker 1: be some some adaptability and some pliability on both sides

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Speaker 1: with that. But there are some other options free agent

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Speaker 1: wise that are out there that could be cheaper too,

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Speaker 1: so you don't have to desk, like go back to

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Speaker 1: ground zero at right guard. And you mentioned Will Hernandez

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Speaker 1: as well, So there are options all right. When we

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Speaker 1: sit down on June one, or let's say July one,

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Speaker 1: after all fragens he's done, the draft is done. One

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Speaker 1: of the most important additions or improvements that you need

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Speaker 1: to see the Giants make, so when we get to

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Speaker 1: regular season game one next year, we're legitimately talking about

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Speaker 1: this team can and should win the NFC East. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think the Giants definitely need they need some some

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Speaker 1: more offensive production at wide receiver. You know, they need

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Speaker 1: some some ability there. So I think definitely h somebody

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Speaker 1: that can win some one on one matchups can be

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Speaker 1: press coverage would be huge. UM. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: running back wise, there needs to be a counterpart to

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Speaker 1: say Juan Barkley. UM. Offensively, I mentioned that they have

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Speaker 1: to stop beating themselves and to me that this offseason,

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Speaker 1: Jason Garrett and the offense, they should work on the

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Speaker 1: blitz pick up and handling pressure pack from defense, that's

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Speaker 1: where they have to improve on the most um defensively,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's again it's it's a lot like what

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Speaker 1: last year. I think they fixed the back end of

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Speaker 1: the defense. This year it's all about fixing that pass

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Speaker 1: rush on the front end and they need to find

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Speaker 1: a way to replace that production if they lose Leonard Williams,

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Speaker 1: Joe and great stuff, my friend, always a pleasure. All right,

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Speaker 1: Thanks for shonaher. I'm John Schmelk. That's another edition or

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Speaker 1: the final edition i should say, the Giants Rewind podcast

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Speaker 1: and another edition of the Giants hunte podcast. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. Just as a reminder, everybody, uh,

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Speaker 1: New York Giants, they have sweets available, so don't miss

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00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,760
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Speaker 1: can be found of the Giants podcast now. We're presented

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Speaker 1: by Investors Bank on giants dot com slash podcast to

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Speaker 1: John Small Black and all your favorite podcast platforms. For Shonaha,

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Speaker 1: I'm John schmlk nicy being with us. We'll see you

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Speaker 1: next time. Everybody, stay's safe out there.