WEBVTT - The Russian Alamo: Mike Lyons Talks To Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>This is a question that became something of a joke.

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<v Speaker 1>My answer is direct. We are not getting prepared. We

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<v Speaker 1>are not working on a dirty bomb. With protests gripping

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<v Speaker 1>the country's universities and high schools, and strike action by teachers,

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<v Speaker 1>business owners, factory workers, even oil refinery workers the backbone

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<v Speaker 1>of Iran's economy, the call for a form and for

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<v Speaker 1>regime change is only growing louder. So what you first

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<v Speaker 1>heard there was a spokesman for somebody in the government

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<v Speaker 1>with Ukraine scene, We're not building a dirty bomb. That's ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 1>And then there is some belief from some people involved

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<v Speaker 1>in the Russian military that Putin is never going to

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<v Speaker 1>use nuclear weapons, which I hope is true. I really

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<v Speaker 1>really hope it's true. We welcome to the program, Miclines.

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<v Speaker 1>He's a military analyst we'd like to have on all

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<v Speaker 1>the time. I served with various military organizations in both

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<v Speaker 1>the United States and Europe throughout his career. UM I

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<v Speaker 1>went to West Point, all kinds of really cool stuff

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<v Speaker 1>that make you a regular guest to CNN. I see

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<v Speaker 1>you there all the time. I look for your your

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<v Speaker 1>shots on CNN. Mic Lines. Uh, thanks for joining us today.

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<v Speaker 1>Appreciate it, ob Jack, thanks so much for having me back. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm following this story closely, but I feel like there's

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<v Speaker 1>been a dead spot in coverage for the last week

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<v Speaker 1>or so over what's going on with Kirsan and that

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<v Speaker 1>region with Can you fill us in on what's happening? Sure, So,

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<v Speaker 1>the tactical military guys, right, the generals and the people

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<v Speaker 1>that like to see the moving tanks on the ground

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<v Speaker 1>are noticing that the Ukraine military is doing very well.

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<v Speaker 1>They're winning battles in this area there, and they're taking

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<v Speaker 1>advantage of the Nepro River, which is a natural boundary

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<v Speaker 1>between um, let's say, Kersan and kind of the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of that occupied region within Ukraine that Russia has been

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<v Speaker 1>instance and um if if um, Ukraine can push Russia

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<v Speaker 1>out of Kirsan back across that river, and then the

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<v Speaker 1>question gets through Ukraine is how do they cross the

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<v Speaker 1>river if they want to keep this attack going. But

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<v Speaker 1>then also if you go a little bit further east

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<v Speaker 1>there there's a separation that could take place. They could

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<v Speaker 1>they could basically cut off the Russian military from its

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<v Speaker 1>supply chain that would come from from the east, and

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<v Speaker 1>you could have ten to twenty Russian soldiers surrounded and

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<v Speaker 1>potentially surrender. They're gonna get cold to the winner's coming, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So they're gonna get cold here in December and January,

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<v Speaker 1>and and so I think from the tactical perspective, from

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<v Speaker 1>the battleship space perspective, the military guys were looking at

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<v Speaker 1>this saying, we have a real opportunity to really put

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<v Speaker 1>Russia in a binding. However, Russia is still fighting the

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<v Speaker 1>strategic battle and they're coming back with drones, they're hitting Kiev,

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<v Speaker 1>they've got swarms, they've got all other kinds of things,

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<v Speaker 1>and so Ukraine has got to also worry about air defenses.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's multidimensional military chess taking place right now. And um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, if the Ukraine military on the ground, in

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<v Speaker 1>the chaotic face of the battle can force Russia to

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<v Speaker 1>large area surrenders, they might bring them to the negotiations table.

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<v Speaker 1>Who knows. There is a pretty consequential battle perhaps being

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<v Speaker 1>lined up right now. Yeah, that's why I see it.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's not only for Carson, it's for that whole

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<v Speaker 1>southern region because now it threatens crime and which I

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<v Speaker 1>think is their alimo. Um that is non negotiable from

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<v Speaker 1>Russia's perspective. They have to have that warm water port,

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<v Speaker 1>and they've had it for the last hundred plus years.

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<v Speaker 1>They've had a an agreement with the Ukraine government to

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<v Speaker 1>have it. You see Elon Musk, you know, in his

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<v Speaker 1>tweets about trying to make peace, saying that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Russia gets it. I mean, it's almost like a fate

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<v Speaker 1>to complete um. You know that that is something that

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<v Speaker 1>without that, Russia does not project power in in the

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<v Speaker 1>Middle East, doesn't project power in the Mediterranean or in

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<v Speaker 1>the Atlantic. It creates a significant problem for the Black Fleet.

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<v Speaker 1>Where does the Black Fleet go at that point? So,

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<v Speaker 1>so that's there, that's their Alimo, and that might be

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<v Speaker 1>this place where they do use those tactical nukes to

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<v Speaker 1>to to create a boundary between them and Ukraine as

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<v Speaker 1>they as they try to formulably try to retake it. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to ask you about that, but before we

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<v Speaker 1>get to that, you know, Zelinski says it it's non

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<v Speaker 1>negotiable from him stand point to that you're staying in Crimea.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course that could be a negotiating position. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean it's gonna be hard, difficult for the Ukraine people

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<v Speaker 1>and him in particular to you know, actually any territory.

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<v Speaker 1>I think back to Russia, even though they've occupied a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of those reasons. Since they've they've had influence over

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<v Speaker 1>at the very least, and they've influenced their Congress. It's

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<v Speaker 1>part of the reason why the Ukraine government was in

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<v Speaker 1>such turmoil for the past few years because they so

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<v Speaker 1>many of the politicians in that part of Ukraine were

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<v Speaker 1>on Russia's side. And um, you know, it's hard again

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<v Speaker 1>today's world, all of a sudden cutting up this country

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<v Speaker 1>and then having its slice to Russia. But that might

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<v Speaker 1>be the likely scenario espectly, you know, they could start

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<v Speaker 1>building a wall, you know, get back to the nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>fifties technology here, and they start building up wall between

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<v Speaker 1>those two areas, and then it becomes, you know, really

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty large demarcation line. I want to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>the nuke thing before I get to that. I was

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<v Speaker 1>going to read from a piece later in the program

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<v Speaker 1>from Day but French and the Dispatch, who continues to

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<v Speaker 1>make the argument that this is the most consequential story

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<v Speaker 1>in the world, is what happens with Ukraine and Russia,

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<v Speaker 1>and making the argument for why we need to continue

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<v Speaker 1>to support the Ukrainians etter, etcetera. Would you agree that

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<v Speaker 1>it is the most consequential thing going on right now? Um,

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<v Speaker 1>for now, I say it's no. It's it's a regional

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<v Speaker 1>conflict and it has more impact on what happens in Europe.

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<v Speaker 1>And for those people who are globalists, they might think

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<v Speaker 1>that's the case. But really, at the end of the day,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a regional conflict. It does not. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's important for the United States from a from a

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<v Speaker 1>national security perspective, but it's not. It's not the most important.

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<v Speaker 1>We've got to keep our eye clearly on our main threat,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's China, and that's what could happen in the Pacific.

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<v Speaker 1>I think we can do what we can as an

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<v Speaker 1>infrastructure to support the Ukraine military. I mean what's happening is,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, of year defense platforms that we ordered the

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<v Speaker 1>the army order fifty of them. Let's say I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's what the number was fifty from raytheon and I

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<v Speaker 1>think we've bumped that number down to allow twenty of

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<v Speaker 1>them to be built for Ukraine. They won't get there

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<v Speaker 1>till the spraying, and it might not even matter. So

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<v Speaker 1>those are the kind of things we're doing in our country.

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<v Speaker 1>To try to help this, but from our national security perspective,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not you know, up in troops there, it's not

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<v Speaker 1>it's not enough to start World War three, that's for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Well I'm glad to ask you. So you don't think

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<v Speaker 1>if this went the wrong way in Russia gets to

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<v Speaker 1>keep a big chunk of Ukraine, that that destabilizes the

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<v Speaker 1>world so much that it's the most important story out there.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't. And it all comes down to back to

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<v Speaker 1>what these European countries do when that potentially happens. If

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<v Speaker 1>they you know, everybody wants the world to go back

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<v Speaker 1>to February twenty three, right, they all want they want,

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<v Speaker 1>they want the oil, they want, you know, they want

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<v Speaker 1>to happen. But that that won't happen. So look at

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<v Speaker 1>the Germans. The Germans have decided to go ahead and

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<v Speaker 1>sell China a quarter of one of their major ports

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<v Speaker 1>in Hamburg. I mean, like no one's learning, no one's

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<v Speaker 1>realizing where the world is going here and how it's getting,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, kind of divided up. I think that we

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<v Speaker 1>have to recognize it. You know, when when there's finally

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<v Speaker 1>peace in Ukraine, at some point, there will be something

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<v Speaker 1>called Ukraine left over and the and the west to

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<v Speaker 1>do what it can to rebuild that country. But but

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<v Speaker 1>anything to the east of it, we've got to be

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<v Speaker 1>dealt with, and we've got to recognize we have to

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<v Speaker 1>cut that off and not have these kind of relationships

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<v Speaker 1>with that that will allow them to expand their imperialistic motives,

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<v Speaker 1>because that's what they're trying to do. Great Glad, I asked, Glad,

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<v Speaker 1>we got that point of view. Now to the nuclear

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<v Speaker 1>weapon thing. Why is Russia claiming that the Ukrainians are

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<v Speaker 1>going to use a dirty bomb? What do you think

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<v Speaker 1>is going on there? Yeah, it's false flag stuff, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the Prutent playbook right, all that, all those things, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>these guys talk about it. It is. Um it's a

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<v Speaker 1>scorched earth type uh strategy or tactic. Actually that doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>do anybody any good. If they decide to destroy the

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear plant and typ of Reza for example, or um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, use some kind of chemical that will have

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<v Speaker 1>a long term effect. I mean obviously a nuclear type

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<v Speaker 1>implosion or something would be a lot worse. Um, the

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<v Speaker 1>dirty bombs are you know terror type weapons systems that

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<v Speaker 1>that you know deployed in subway systems for example, designed

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<v Speaker 1>to you know, kind of killed quickly and terrorize the population.

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<v Speaker 1>Russia is going to wreck anything that can't keep it's

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<v Speaker 1>going to wreck, and we have to say that that's

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<v Speaker 1>what's gonna happen and know that they have the capability

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<v Speaker 1>to do that, and they're not going to stop. It's

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<v Speaker 1>in their DNA. They're not stopping, and they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>continue to fight this. They're not going to give up

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<v Speaker 1>the winner. For example, They're gonna do whatever they can

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<v Speaker 1>as the drones and the and the missile systems they're

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<v Speaker 1>targeting right now, the infrastructure, energy, infrastructure. They're going right

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<v Speaker 1>after the heart of Kiev. They're going to try to

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<v Speaker 1>put as many Ukraine in the cold and the dark

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<v Speaker 1>as possible they can for for this winter. They're not

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<v Speaker 1>gonna They're not gonna give that opportunity up. So you

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<v Speaker 1>are uniquely qualified to talk about this whole using a

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<v Speaker 1>tactical nuke, Explain what your background is in that, and

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<v Speaker 1>then how Russian might Russia might use that to escalate

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<v Speaker 1>to de escalate there in Crimea. So I was a

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<v Speaker 1>tactile nuclear officer in Europe in the in the nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>eighties when we had those weapons systems, and if we

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<v Speaker 1>were going to use them, we'd use them in the

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<v Speaker 1>retreat um as because they fire a certain distance let's say,

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<v Speaker 1>anywhere from eighteen to twenty miles ahead, and they would

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<v Speaker 1>render that area, you know, in an inhabitable for a

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<v Speaker 1>certain period of time. They they are combat multipliers, and

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<v Speaker 1>they also kind of fixed conventional forces in play because

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<v Speaker 1>they can't then come through those areas, and that's likely

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<v Speaker 1>what they could possibly do in crime if they if

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<v Speaker 1>they use that as kind of the last ditch effort.

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<v Speaker 1>Now we would be able to monitor whether they're in

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<v Speaker 1>theater or not, using satellites, using different technologies to say

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<v Speaker 1>um but um. But they're also dangerous and given the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that they haven't necessarily have fired one, they're like

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<v Speaker 1>they're most likely delivered by artillery. They could blow up

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<v Speaker 1>in the twos, they could destroy Russian units that are

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<v Speaker 1>trying to use them themselves. So there's lots of things

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<v Speaker 1>that can go wrong still with what's going there when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes to using a nuclear weapon, which in most

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<v Speaker 1>cases that's why they'll be used at the at the

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<v Speaker 1>episolute very last use. So was our policy. See back

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<v Speaker 1>when you're dealing with this during the Cold War, if

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<v Speaker 1>we were getting overrun by you know, the Soviet Union,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll have decided, you know what, We're gonna try to

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<v Speaker 1>take more of Europe. If we were getting overrun, we

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<v Speaker 1>would have used a tactical nuke to to give us

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<v Speaker 1>ourselves some time to regroup or whatever. Yeah, absolutely, we

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<v Speaker 1>had them in our in our battery. We would have

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<v Speaker 1>we practice taking them on our tactical exercises, and we

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<v Speaker 1>practice going through the authentication codes of having them released

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<v Speaker 1>and actually using them. And they were not used in

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<v Speaker 1>the office. They weren't intensively used in the offense. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I can talk about this now. It's all be classified.

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<v Speaker 1>The General Defense Plane of Europe's called the thirty three

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<v Speaker 1>double A one. I'm shore any of your listeners that

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<v Speaker 1>were back then, they probably bringing back a good memory

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<v Speaker 1>of it. But but that's what it was all about.

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<v Speaker 1>It was using a tactical nuke in order to buy

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<v Speaker 1>us time to to retreat because we were outnumbered and

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<v Speaker 1>outguns six to one, ten to one in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>people back then, and that was the way we were

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<v Speaker 1>going to defend Western Europe in the mid eighties. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's interesting. So I'm and I'm far from a Putin apologist.

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<v Speaker 1>But so it wasn't unthinkable for us to do that

0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:07.800
<v Speaker 1>if we were getting our asses kicked in retreating, so

0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Russia might do the same. Yeah, that's exactly right, and

0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.120
<v Speaker 1>it's their perception. If they are, you know, not doing

0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.280
<v Speaker 1>well and if their conventional forces aren't aren't doing that

0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:20.480
<v Speaker 1>that I The thing is, they probably have enough conventional

0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.040
<v Speaker 1>firepower to at least hold that off, and if they

0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.080
<v Speaker 1>if they have to cross it, it's going to again

0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.760
<v Speaker 1>it's likely that last piece in CRIMEA that they would.

0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.200
<v Speaker 1>They would if they think that that's being threatened. That

0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:32.880
<v Speaker 1>might be that only time. But what it does, again

0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.000
<v Speaker 1>fixes the conventional forces on the other side, because once

0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.840
<v Speaker 1>you fire tactical nukes across the front, then you're not

0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:41.600
<v Speaker 1>seeing conventional forces going in that area or anytime soon.

0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.720
<v Speaker 1>It renders that area uninhabitable. Aren't some of these videos amazing?

0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:47.520
<v Speaker 1>And these fat old men are young kids with buying

0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.840
<v Speaker 1>their own uniforms and no weapons, no food, no water

0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.320
<v Speaker 1>and everything. It's just incredible. Yeah. The thing is, you know,

0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:56.720
<v Speaker 1>we don't fight that way obviously, but for every one

0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.679
<v Speaker 1>of those you see, there's nine other Russians that are

0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:01.560
<v Speaker 1>doing because they know that if they don't do it,

0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:03.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, if they try to get away, they're gonna

0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.800
<v Speaker 1>get shot in the back or something like that. And um,

0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, Russia is trying to buy time. You saw

0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.800
<v Speaker 1>them making a deal with Belarus, for example, to use

0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.800
<v Speaker 1>some kind of joint task force. They need, you know,

0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.320
<v Speaker 1>twenty troops right now. If they had twenty kind of

0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.600
<v Speaker 1>shock troops that were trained for the last six months

0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.480
<v Speaker 1>that were you know, good at soldiering and good at

0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.319
<v Speaker 1>doing this, it would be very influential on the battle

0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.080
<v Speaker 1>field right now. They just don't have that. So both

0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.160
<v Speaker 1>sides are war atrition taking place on both sides are

0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.320
<v Speaker 1>being treated down and Russia is just peacemealing holes in

0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.360
<v Speaker 1>the lines here. But if they can, if either side

0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:40.920
<v Speaker 1>can come up with affordable force, it would influence the

0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.440
<v Speaker 1>tactical battle and and and really you know, win the

0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.800
<v Speaker 1>day for for example. Interesting stuff. That's why I follow

0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Mike Lions on Twitter and perk up whenever I see

0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.920
<v Speaker 1>him on cable News. Thanks for coming on with us today.

0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.600
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate it. Thanks for me