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Speaker 1: This is a question that became something of a joke.

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Speaker 1: My answer is direct. We are not getting prepared. We

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Speaker 1: are not working on a dirty bomb. With protests gripping

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Speaker 1: the country's universities and high schools, and strike action by teachers,

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Speaker 1: business owners, factory workers, even oil refinery workers the backbone

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Speaker 1: of Iran's economy, the call for a form and for

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Speaker 1: regime change is only growing louder. So what you first

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Speaker 1: heard there was a spokesman for somebody in the government

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Speaker 1: with Ukraine scene, We're not building a dirty bomb. That's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: And then there is some belief from some people involved

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Speaker 1: in the Russian military that Putin is never going to

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Speaker 1: use nuclear weapons, which I hope is true. I really

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Speaker 1: really hope it's true. We welcome to the program, Miclines.

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Speaker 1: He's a military analyst we'd like to have on all

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Speaker 1: the time. I served with various military organizations in both

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Speaker 1: the United States and Europe throughout his career. UM I

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Speaker 1: went to West Point, all kinds of really cool stuff

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Speaker 1: that make you a regular guest to CNN. I see

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Speaker 1: you there all the time. I look for your your

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Speaker 1: shots on CNN. Mic Lines. Uh, thanks for joining us today.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate it, ob Jack, thanks so much for having me back. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm following this story closely, but I feel like there's

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Speaker 1: been a dead spot in coverage for the last week

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Speaker 1: or so over what's going on with Kirsan and that

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Speaker 1: region with Can you fill us in on what's happening? Sure, So,

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Speaker 1: the tactical military guys, right, the generals and the people

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Speaker 1: that like to see the moving tanks on the ground

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Speaker 1: are noticing that the Ukraine military is doing very well.

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Speaker 1: They're winning battles in this area there, and they're taking

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Speaker 1: advantage of the Nepro River, which is a natural boundary

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Speaker 1: between um, let's say, Kersan and kind of the rest

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Speaker 1: of that occupied region within Ukraine that Russia has been

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Speaker 1: instance and um if if um, Ukraine can push Russia

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Speaker 1: out of Kirsan back across that river, and then the

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Speaker 1: question gets through Ukraine is how do they cross the

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Speaker 1: river if they want to keep this attack going. But

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Speaker 1: then also if you go a little bit further east

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Speaker 1: there there's a separation that could take place. They could

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Speaker 1: they could basically cut off the Russian military from its

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Speaker 1: supply chain that would come from from the east, and

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Speaker 1: you could have ten to twenty Russian soldiers surrounded and

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Speaker 1: potentially surrender. They're gonna get cold to the winner's coming, right,

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Speaker 1: So they're gonna get cold here in December and January,

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Speaker 1: and and so I think from the tactical perspective, from

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Speaker 1: the battleship space perspective, the military guys were looking at

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Speaker 1: this saying, we have a real opportunity to really put

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Speaker 1: Russia in a binding. However, Russia is still fighting the

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Speaker 1: strategic battle and they're coming back with drones, they're hitting Kiev,

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Speaker 1: they've got swarms, they've got all other kinds of things,

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Speaker 1: and so Ukraine has got to also worry about air defenses.

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Speaker 1: So there's multidimensional military chess taking place right now. And um,

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Speaker 1: you know, if the Ukraine military on the ground, in

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Speaker 1: the chaotic face of the battle can force Russia to

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Speaker 1: large area surrenders, they might bring them to the negotiations table.

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Speaker 1: Who knows. There is a pretty consequential battle perhaps being

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Speaker 1: lined up right now. Yeah, that's why I see it.

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Speaker 1: And it's not only for Carson, it's for that whole

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Speaker 1: southern region because now it threatens crime and which I

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Speaker 1: think is their alimo. Um that is non negotiable from

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Speaker 1: Russia's perspective. They have to have that warm water port,

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Speaker 1: and they've had it for the last hundred plus years.

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Speaker 1: They've had a an agreement with the Ukraine government to

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Speaker 1: have it. You see Elon Musk, you know, in his

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Speaker 1: tweets about trying to make peace, saying that you know,

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Speaker 1: Russia gets it. I mean, it's almost like a fate

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Speaker 1: to complete um. You know that that is something that

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Speaker 1: without that, Russia does not project power in in the

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Speaker 1: Middle East, doesn't project power in the Mediterranean or in

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Speaker 1: the Atlantic. It creates a significant problem for the Black Fleet.

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Speaker 1: Where does the Black Fleet go at that point? So,

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Speaker 1: so that's there, that's their Alimo, and that might be

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Speaker 1: this place where they do use those tactical nukes to

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Speaker 1: to to create a boundary between them and Ukraine as

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Speaker 1: they as they try to formulably try to retake it. Well,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you about that, but before we

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Speaker 1: get to that, you know, Zelinski says it it's non

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Speaker 1: negotiable from him stand point to that you're staying in Crimea.

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Speaker 1: Of course that could be a negotiating position. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's gonna be hard, difficult for the Ukraine people

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Speaker 1: and him in particular to you know, actually any territory.

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Speaker 1: I think back to Russia, even though they've occupied a

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Speaker 1: lot of those reasons. Since they've they've had influence over

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Speaker 1: at the very least, and they've influenced their Congress. It's

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Speaker 1: part of the reason why the Ukraine government was in

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Speaker 1: such turmoil for the past few years because they so

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Speaker 1: many of the politicians in that part of Ukraine were

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Speaker 1: on Russia's side. And um, you know, it's hard again

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Speaker 1: today's world, all of a sudden cutting up this country

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Speaker 1: and then having its slice to Russia. But that might

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Speaker 1: be the likely scenario espectly, you know, they could start

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Speaker 1: building a wall, you know, get back to the nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifties technology here, and they start building up wall between

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Speaker 1: those two areas, and then it becomes, you know, really

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Speaker 1: a pretty large demarcation line. I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: the nuke thing before I get to that. I was

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Speaker 1: going to read from a piece later in the program

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Speaker 1: from Day but French and the Dispatch, who continues to

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Speaker 1: make the argument that this is the most consequential story

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Speaker 1: in the world, is what happens with Ukraine and Russia,

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Speaker 1: and making the argument for why we need to continue

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Speaker 1: to support the Ukrainians etter, etcetera. Would you agree that

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Speaker 1: it is the most consequential thing going on right now? Um,

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Speaker 1: for now, I say it's no. It's it's a regional

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Speaker 1: conflict and it has more impact on what happens in Europe.

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Speaker 1: And for those people who are globalists, they might think

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Speaker 1: that's the case. But really, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: this is a regional conflict. It does not. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's important for the United States from a from a

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Speaker 1: national security perspective, but it's not. It's not the most important.

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Speaker 1: We've got to keep our eye clearly on our main threat,

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Speaker 1: and that's China, and that's what could happen in the Pacific.

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Speaker 1: I think we can do what we can as an

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Speaker 1: infrastructure to support the Ukraine military. I mean what's happening is,

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Speaker 1: for example, of year defense platforms that we ordered the

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Speaker 1: the army order fifty of them. Let's say I think

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Speaker 1: that's what the number was fifty from raytheon and I

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Speaker 1: think we've bumped that number down to allow twenty of

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Speaker 1: them to be built for Ukraine. They won't get there

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Speaker 1: till the spraying, and it might not even matter. So

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Speaker 1: those are the kind of things we're doing in our country.

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Speaker 1: To try to help this, but from our national security perspective,

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Speaker 1: it's not you know, up in troops there, it's not

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Speaker 1: it's not enough to start World War three, that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: Well I'm glad to ask you. So you don't think

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Speaker 1: if this went the wrong way in Russia gets to

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Speaker 1: keep a big chunk of Ukraine, that that destabilizes the

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Speaker 1: world so much that it's the most important story out there.

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Speaker 1: I don't. And it all comes down to back to

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Speaker 1: what these European countries do when that potentially happens. If

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Speaker 1: they you know, everybody wants the world to go back

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Speaker 1: to February twenty three, right, they all want they want,

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Speaker 1: they want the oil, they want, you know, they want

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Speaker 1: to happen. But that that won't happen. So look at

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Speaker 1: the Germans. The Germans have decided to go ahead and

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Speaker 1: sell China a quarter of one of their major ports

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Speaker 1: in Hamburg. I mean, like no one's learning, no one's

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Speaker 1: realizing where the world is going here and how it's getting,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of divided up. I think that we

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Speaker 1: have to recognize it. You know, when when there's finally

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Speaker 1: peace in Ukraine, at some point, there will be something

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Speaker 1: called Ukraine left over and the and the west to

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Speaker 1: do what it can to rebuild that country. But but

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Speaker 1: anything to the east of it, we've got to be

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Speaker 1: dealt with, and we've got to recognize we have to

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Speaker 1: cut that off and not have these kind of relationships

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Speaker 1: with that that will allow them to expand their imperialistic motives,

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Speaker 1: because that's what they're trying to do. Great Glad, I asked, Glad,

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Speaker 1: we got that point of view. Now to the nuclear

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Speaker 1: weapon thing. Why is Russia claiming that the Ukrainians are

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Speaker 1: going to use a dirty bomb? What do you think

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Speaker 1: is going on there? Yeah, it's false flag stuff, you know,

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Speaker 1: the Prutent playbook right, all that, all those things, you know,

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Speaker 1: these guys talk about it. It is. Um it's a

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Speaker 1: scorched earth type uh strategy or tactic. Actually that doesn't

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Speaker 1: do anybody any good. If they decide to destroy the

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Speaker 1: nuclear plant and typ of Reza for example, or um,

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Speaker 1: you know, use some kind of chemical that will have

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Speaker 1: a long term effect. I mean obviously a nuclear type

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Speaker 1: implosion or something would be a lot worse. Um, the

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Speaker 1: dirty bombs are you know terror type weapons systems that

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Speaker 1: that you know deployed in subway systems for example, designed

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Speaker 1: to you know, kind of killed quickly and terrorize the population.

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Speaker 1: Russia is going to wreck anything that can't keep it's

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Speaker 1: going to wreck, and we have to say that that's

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Speaker 1: what's gonna happen and know that they have the capability

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Speaker 1: to do that, and they're not going to stop. It's

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Speaker 1: in their DNA. They're not stopping, and they're going to

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Speaker 1: continue to fight this. They're not going to give up

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Speaker 1: the winner. For example, They're gonna do whatever they can

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Speaker 1: as the drones and the and the missile systems they're

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Speaker 1: targeting right now, the infrastructure, energy, infrastructure. They're going right

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Speaker 1: after the heart of Kiev. They're going to try to

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Speaker 1: put as many Ukraine in the cold and the dark

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Speaker 1: as possible they can for for this winter. They're not

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Speaker 1: gonna They're not gonna give that opportunity up. So you

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Speaker 1: are uniquely qualified to talk about this whole using a

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Speaker 1: tactical nuke, Explain what your background is in that, and

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Speaker 1: then how Russian might Russia might use that to escalate

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Speaker 1: to de escalate there in Crimea. So I was a

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Speaker 1: tactile nuclear officer in Europe in the in the nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighties when we had those weapons systems, and if we

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Speaker 1: were going to use them, we'd use them in the

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Speaker 1: retreat um as because they fire a certain distance let's say,

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Speaker 1: anywhere from eighteen to twenty miles ahead, and they would

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Speaker 1: render that area, you know, in an inhabitable for a

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Speaker 1: certain period of time. They they are combat multipliers, and

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Speaker 1: they also kind of fixed conventional forces in play because

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Speaker 1: they can't then come through those areas, and that's likely

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Speaker 1: what they could possibly do in crime if they if

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Speaker 1: they use that as kind of the last ditch effort.

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Speaker 1: Now we would be able to monitor whether they're in

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Speaker 1: theater or not, using satellites, using different technologies to say

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Speaker 1: um but um. But they're also dangerous and given the

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Speaker 1: fact that they haven't necessarily have fired one, they're like

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Speaker 1: they're most likely delivered by artillery. They could blow up

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Speaker 1: in the twos, they could destroy Russian units that are

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Speaker 1: trying to use them themselves. So there's lots of things

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Speaker 1: that can go wrong still with what's going there when

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Speaker 1: it comes to using a nuclear weapon, which in most

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Speaker 1: cases that's why they'll be used at the at the

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Speaker 1: episolute very last use. So was our policy. See back

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Speaker 1: when you're dealing with this during the Cold War, if

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Speaker 1: we were getting overrun by you know, the Soviet Union,

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Speaker 1: I'll have decided, you know what, We're gonna try to

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Speaker 1: take more of Europe. If we were getting overrun, we

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Speaker 1: would have used a tactical nuke to to give us

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Speaker 1: ourselves some time to regroup or whatever. Yeah, absolutely, we

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Speaker 1: had them in our in our battery. We would have

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Speaker 1: we practice taking them on our tactical exercises, and we

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Speaker 1: practice going through the authentication codes of having them released

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Speaker 1: and actually using them. And they were not used in

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Speaker 1: the office. They weren't intensively used in the offense. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can talk about this now. It's all be classified.

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Speaker 1: The General Defense Plane of Europe's called the thirty three

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Speaker 1: double A one. I'm shore any of your listeners that

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Speaker 1: were back then, they probably bringing back a good memory

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Speaker 1: of it. But but that's what it was all about.

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Speaker 1: It was using a tactical nuke in order to buy

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Speaker 1: us time to to retreat because we were outnumbered and

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Speaker 1: outguns six to one, ten to one in terms of

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Speaker 1: people back then, and that was the way we were

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Speaker 1: going to defend Western Europe in the mid eighties. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's interesting. So I'm and I'm far from a Putin apologist.

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Speaker 1: But so it wasn't unthinkable for us to do that

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Speaker 1: if we were getting our asses kicked in retreating, so

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Speaker 1: Russia might do the same. Yeah, that's exactly right, and

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Speaker 1: it's their perception. If they are, you know, not doing

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Speaker 1: well and if their conventional forces aren't aren't doing that

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Speaker 1: that I The thing is, they probably have enough conventional

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Speaker 1: firepower to at least hold that off, and if they

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Speaker 1: if they have to cross it, it's going to again

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Speaker 1: it's likely that last piece in CRIMEA that they would.

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Speaker 1: They would if they think that that's being threatened. That

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Speaker 1: might be that only time. But what it does, again

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Speaker 1: fixes the conventional forces on the other side, because once

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Speaker 1: you fire tactical nukes across the front, then you're not

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Speaker 1: seeing conventional forces going in that area or anytime soon.

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Speaker 1: It renders that area uninhabitable. Aren't some of these videos amazing?

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Speaker 1: And these fat old men are young kids with buying

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Speaker 1: their own uniforms and no weapons, no food, no water

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Speaker 1: and everything. It's just incredible. Yeah. The thing is, you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't fight that way obviously, but for every one

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Speaker 1: of those you see, there's nine other Russians that are

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Speaker 1: doing because they know that if they don't do it,

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Speaker 1: you know, if they try to get away, they're gonna

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Speaker 1: get shot in the back or something like that. And um,

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Speaker 1: you know, Russia is trying to buy time. You saw

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Speaker 1: them making a deal with Belarus, for example, to use

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Speaker 1: some kind of joint task force. They need, you know,

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Speaker 1: twenty troops right now. If they had twenty kind of

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Speaker 1: shock troops that were trained for the last six months

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Speaker 1: that were you know, good at soldiering and good at

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Speaker 1: doing this, it would be very influential on the battle

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Speaker 1: field right now. They just don't have that. So both

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Speaker 1: sides are war atrition taking place on both sides are

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Speaker 1: being treated down and Russia is just peacemealing holes in

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Speaker 1: the lines here. But if they can, if either side

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Speaker 1: can come up with affordable force, it would influence the

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Speaker 1: tactical battle and and and really you know, win the

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Speaker 1: day for for example. Interesting stuff. That's why I follow

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Speaker 1: Mike Lions on Twitter and perk up whenever I see

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Speaker 1: him on cable News. Thanks for coming on with us today.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Thanks for me