1 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 8 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 9 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 10 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 11 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: for joining me for session three thirty four of the 12 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: Therapy Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after 13 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors introducing the new Therapy for 14 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: Black Girl's holiday gift collection. Our new ensemble of drinkwaar totes, journals, 15 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: and sweatshirts were designed with coziness and utility in mind, 16 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: while offering a gentle reminder that we are precious cargo 17 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: and should be handled with care. Happy holidays, y'all, remember 18 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: to take good care and give good gifts. In passing, 19 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: you've likely heard the phrase the eyes are the windows 20 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: to the soul. But did you know that there is 21 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: an emerging body based modality that works to process client 22 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: trauma through movement in the eyes. It's called brain spotting, 23 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: and today's guest is here to share all about it. 24 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: Nicole Bryant is a licensed mental health clinician practicing in 25 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: North Carolina. Nicole specializes in neural psychotherapy and is currently 26 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: a certified brain spotting practitioner. In our conversation, we discussed 27 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: the science behind brain spotting, how brain spotting can serve 28 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: as an alternative for clients to dissatisfy with talk therapy, 29 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: and why she believes communities of color could benefit most 30 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: from this treatment. If something resonates with you while enjoying 31 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: our conversation, please share it with us on social media 32 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: using the hashtag TBG in session or join us over 33 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: in the sister circle To talk more about the episode. 34 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: You can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls 35 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: dot Com. Here's our conversation. 36 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us today. 37 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: Nicole, Thank you for having me very excited. 38 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 2: To chat with you. 39 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: So you specialize in neural psychotherapy and you're a certified 40 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: brain spotting practitioner. Can you tell us a little bit 41 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 1: about what both of those things are. 42 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 3: Wow, So certify brain spotting practitioner. I'm certified in the 43 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 3: practice of brain spotting. Brain Spotting is a psychological little 44 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 3: neurological technique that has psychological benefits. 45 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 4: The founder, doctor David Grant. He came upon. 46 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 3: Brain spotting almost twenty years ago, so we're talking about 47 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 3: a fairly new treatment modality. He is certified in EMDR 48 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 3: and he founded his practice in New York. When he 49 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 3: was using EMDR with a patient. This particular patient was 50 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 3: a figure skater, so she was an athlete and she 51 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 3: was having difficulty meeting this particular technique as it relates 52 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 3: to ice skating. She was coming up and then coming 53 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 3: back down and falling, and she's meeting with doctor Graham 54 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 3: and she's starting to discuss just what's taking place with 55 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 3: her as an athlete as far as what's taking place 56 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 3: with this technique. And he was doing EMDR with her 57 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 3: and he found while doing a particular technique during EMDR 58 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 3: eye reflexes, he found that her eye began to flicker 59 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 3: when he got to a particular spot, and something in 60 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 3: him said, just stop. MDR is very protocol driven. There's 61 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 3: a way to go about MDR. With this particular reflex 62 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 3: that he was noticing with her eye, he stopped with 63 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 3: the pointer instead of continuing with the MDR technique, and 64 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 3: this overflow of emotion took place. She started crying profusely. 65 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 3: She started talking about her childhood. She started talking about 66 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 3: the effects of the divorce and how mom blamed her 67 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 3: for the divorce, everything that had basically been held in 68 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 3: her for this particular time. And come to find out, 69 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 3: she basically had this fear of rejection and fear of 70 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 3: messing up, fear of not being a followed through. This 71 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 3: was one session she went back to the ice skating 72 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 3: and she was able to nail the particular technique that 73 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 3: she had all this trouble, all these weeks, all these 74 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: months of being able to nail. 75 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: Wow, So I wonder what kinds of questions was he 76 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: asking her related to the way her eye was flirting. 77 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: Made him think something's going on there, like how did 78 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: he get to this rejection story? 79 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 3: Doctor Graham talks about in brain spotting the uncertainty principle. 80 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 3: Brain spotting has a lot to do with a felt sense. 81 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 3: So his attunement and how attuned he was in the 82 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 3: therapeutic relationship as well as that particular session, his attunement 83 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 3: with her, holding space, with her being present with her 84 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 3: without a neurological background, medical degree background, different things that 85 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 3: nature to basically be able to pinpoint, Okay, this is 86 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 3: what's taking place with her eye. He decided to just 87 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 3: stop talking. He decided to just stop as far as 88 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 3: the particular technique that he was going to do with 89 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 3: EMDR and based off of his felt sense, he just 90 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 3: allowed her to process and she began to process on 91 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 3: her own from a neurobiological level, was processing, crying, talking. 92 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 3: I don't know why, but I just thought of this 93 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 3: memory just came up and I'm thinking of such as such, 94 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 3: and she begins to process based off of that and 95 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,239 Speaker 3: from their brain spotting, what was born. 96 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: Got it? 97 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: It was almost like a free association thing like he 98 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: just stopped the protocol and gave her a space to 99 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:14,679 Speaker 1: kind of talk. 100 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 2: Through what was happening. Absolutely got it. 101 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: Okay, so he unlike this for her, and then what 102 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: does this look like then in terms of him creating 103 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: brain spotting? 104 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 2: What does he do in brain spotting? 105 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 3: He creates brain spotting? He starts learning a little bit 106 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 3: more neurobiologically, what's taking place. He starts getting with other 107 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 3: particular scientists and neurobiologists and neuroscientists, and he learns even 108 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 3: more in regards to EMDR and he's getting with different 109 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 3: people and they're letting him know what is taking place 110 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 3: neurobiology and what is taking place from a neurological standpoint 111 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 3: in different things that nature, and he starts to develop 112 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 3: a little bit more and a little bit more and 113 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 3: a little. 114 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 4: Bit more in regards to brain spotting. 115 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 3: So me particularly in order to become certified in brain spotting, 116 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 3: you have to go through two phases of treatment, Phase one, 117 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 3: in phase two, and in phase one, we're learning the 118 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 3: basic techniques such as why access access, We're learning as 119 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 3: far as inside window, outside window resourcing and different things 120 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 3: that nature, and we evolve a little bit more in 121 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 3: phase two. And then from phase two, I'm meeting with 122 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 3: a consultant and I'm basically getting some supervision in regards 123 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 3: to my. 124 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 4: Techniques and different things that nature. 125 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 3: And after I complete a certain amount of hours and 126 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 3: a certain amount of supervision consultation hours, I go before 127 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 3: the Brain Spotting Institute and I'm awarded certification. 128 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: And you also mentioned having specialization in neuropsychotherapy, So what 129 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: is that. 130 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 3: So I'm a lover of all things knowledge and learning 131 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 3: a little bit more and my first training session you'll say, 132 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 3: with brain spotting and learning a little bit more about it. 133 00:07:58,080 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 4: For me, it was wanting to take. 134 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,239 Speaker 3: It a little bit further and learn from a neurological 135 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 3: neuroscience level what is taking place within the brain and 136 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 3: sensations and all of that good stuff. And my facilitator 137 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 3: as a related to brain spoting is explaining it to 138 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 3: us that there's different schools that you'll be able to 139 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 3: learn a little bit more as it relates to neuroscience 140 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 3: getting the fundamentals. So Harvard University offers fundamentals and neuroscience 141 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 3: program and I enroll and I'm completing the different series 142 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 3: and I've completed completely and I get the certification as 143 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 3: it relates to fundamentals. So now being able to take 144 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 3: this background knowledge of neuroscience and perception and sensation in 145 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 3: regards to the brain and tying that to what I 146 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 3: know now with certified brain spotting practitioner, I've basically developed 147 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 3: my practice as far as being able to from a 148 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 3: psycho physiological level, how can I help the person sitting 149 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 3: in front of me who tends to be black and 150 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 3: brown and tends to be a woman. What complex trauma? 151 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 3: Not just PTSD, but complex PTSD. Bringing in body awareness, 152 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 3: helping her understand what's taking place as to why you're 153 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 3: possibly feeling like this from a neurological level, and then 154 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 3: from there giving her the space as far as being 155 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 3: able to process whatever she needs to process in the 156 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 3: time that she is with me. 157 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: God is so the neuropsychotherapy piece is really much more 158 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: sharing with clients. Okay, what's happening in your body when 159 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: maybe you're having a panic attack, or when you talk 160 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: about this experience with your mom, Here's what's. 161 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 2: Happening in your brain? 162 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 4: Correct? 163 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: Got it? Okay? 164 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: Okay, So you mentioned that brain spotting started as a 165 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: spin off basically from EMDR. He was practicing EMDR. So 166 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: how is it different? In what ways are they maybe similar? 167 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 3: I have no training MDR. From what I know what 168 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 3: brain spotting again goes back to the uncertainty principle. MDR 169 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 3: is more protocol driven as far as what they're learning 170 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 3: from MDR, being certified in MDR protocol, how to go 171 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 3: about the different techniques. Brain spotty not as much. You're 172 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 3: allowing the client really to guide you as to really 173 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 3: what is taking place. So let's say inside window or 174 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 3: even outside window, I'm watching them from a therapist standpoint, 175 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 3: when I'm observing what I may be seeing in their 176 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 3: eyes other different type of reflexes they may on. This 177 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 3: is the reflex that I'm seeing seeing based off of 178 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 3: what I'm doing with the pointer. Just focus right there 179 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 3: and what the felt says? Can you let me know 180 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 3: what's taking place before we're starting the technique. On a 181 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 3: scale of zero to ten, what are you feeling right 182 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 3: now in your body? Someone might say, I'm coming in 183 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 3: with a little bit more anxiety. I've just felt this panic. 184 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 3: Where do you feel that from head to toe? Where 185 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 3: would you pinpoint that? And then once they let me 186 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 3: know when they pinpoint that on a scale of zero 187 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 3: to ten, what would you rate that? Zero being nothing, 188 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 3: ten being what it is? Okay, well, we're gonna look 189 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 3: for maybe if there's any type of activation, and I'm 190 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 3: going to bring this point, but I'm going to take 191 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 3: it three spots across your visual field. The only thing 192 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 3: you need to do is just focus on the pointer. 193 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 3: That's all I need to do. Just keep your eyes 194 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 3: on the pointer, and then based off of what I'm 195 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 3: seeing when them do is they're looking at the pointer, 196 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 3: I may be able to give them some feedback us too. 197 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 3: I just notice a lot of blinking right now as 198 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 3: you're looking at that particular spot. 199 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 4: I just noticed you took a yawn. I did. 200 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, you just took a big yawn, which could be 201 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 3: a reflex. I'm noticing something taking place with your head 202 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 3: or your neck. Just focus there for a bit. Do 203 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 3: you feel a bit of an activation? You say you 204 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 3: were about a six when we started. What are you 205 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 3: feeling now? I'm at a ten. I don't know why. 206 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 3: I'm just feeling really really anxious. I'm getting really really okay, Okay, well, 207 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 3: just focus there on the corner and just let me 208 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 3: know what you're noticing about that ten. And then a 209 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 3: lot of times, if they haven't had experience with brain spotting, 210 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 3: they're looking at the porner. Then they're looking back at 211 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 3: me because they're wondering why I'm not talking. So a 212 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 3: lot of times I'll let them know before brain spotting. 213 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 3: Talk therapy versus brain spotting is a bit different. Don't 214 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 3: do a lot of talking. I'm allowing you to process 215 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 3: anything that comes up for you, it doesn't have to 216 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 3: make sense. Feel free to process it. 217 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 4: Anything. 218 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 3: It could be a thought, it could be a feeling 219 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 3: and emotion, it could be a memory, maybe a song 220 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 3: just popped up. Anything that comes up to you, feel 221 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 3: free to process. And then something comes up and they 222 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 3: start processing. I don't know why. I just thought of 223 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 3: my dad, tell me about that, and they're starting to 224 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 3: process X, Y and Z and a. 225 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 4: Lot of times what they do. 226 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 3: Going back to the neural psychotherapy, I'm explaining to them 227 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 3: as it relates to the brain, and I'll let them know. 228 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 3: Just take your fist and inside right here is the 229 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 3: middle part and outside here is the outer part of 230 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 3: the brain, and we have what's called the prefuntal cortext our. 231 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 3: Cerebral cortext has taken place outside here and inside here 232 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 3: probably the middle part mid part brain. Well outside here 233 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 3: we do a lot of talking, like in talk therapy 234 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 3: or the only mammals that have. 235 00:12:58,200 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 4: A prefuntal cortex. 236 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 3: That's why we talk, and mammal stay in the fight 237 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 3: and flight and do other different type of things to 238 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 3: communicate what they need. Well, what we're doing with brain spotting, 239 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 3: we're bypassing the cerebral cortex, and we're going straight into 240 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 3: the mid part here where emotions are stored. Every emotion 241 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 3: that you've had since birth, whether you remembered or not, 242 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 3: is stored there in our limbic system which houses our emotions. 243 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 3: And what we're doing right now is going straight into 244 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 3: the subcortical with the use of your eyes, and you're 245 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 3: starting to process, and then a memory or something just 246 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 3: popped up for you. Because keep in mind, in your 247 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 3: o limbic system, where our emotions are stored, it's something 248 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 3: called our hippocampus. And the way you can think about 249 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 3: the hippocampus is like a file cabinet, and all of 250 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 3: us have a file cabinet in our desk at our 251 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 3: home office XYZ where we have files where we file them. 252 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 3: We pull it out when we need to get that file, 253 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 3: and then when we're done, we place it back. Well, 254 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 3: sometimes trauma impairs that. It impairs the ability to be 255 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 3: able to file away the memory because the event was 256 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 3: so traumatic, stressful, and impaired the brain's natural ability to 257 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 3: be able to tuck it away, file it away and 258 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 3: pull it out when I need to. In other words, 259 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 3: I have control trauma impairs that because we know what 260 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 3: the Olympics system. There's no sense of time, there's no 261 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 3: sense of language. So whether it happened five years ago 262 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 3: or whether it happened fifty years ago, it's replaying and 263 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 3: it's coming up for us in this traumatic experience. 264 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 4: And it worked. It did. 265 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 3: You're sitting in front of me as a human being. 266 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 3: You have a fight and a flight system that's going 267 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 3: to help keep you surviving, that's going to help keep 268 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 3: you here. 269 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 4: It worked. 270 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 3: And the brain, almost like a computer, is still trying 271 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 3: to do the different downloads and uploads and all that 272 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 3: good stuff that it does, and it's having difficulty doing that, 273 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 3: so it goes into these fits of rages, or it 274 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 3: has hyper arousal, or it gets angry. It's pacing nightmares 275 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 3: flashbacks as a way to try to process the files 276 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 3: that are in the file cabinet, but instead of all 277 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 3: over the desk, and what we're going to try and 278 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 3: do with the processing that you're doing right now is 279 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 3: put those papers away back into the hippocampus where they're 280 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 3: supposed to be, and you take them out when you 281 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 3: want to, not when someone upsets you, when you're. 282 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: Triggered more from our conversation after the break, So I 283 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: feel like you've already given us a little bit of like, Okay, 284 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: what's happening in these sessions? 285 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 2: But can you set the stage for us? 286 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: So let's say somebody calls your office, they maybe found 287 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: your website or something, they say, I want to try 288 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: brain spotting. Can you set the stage for us for 289 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: what happens in your first session? Would do subsequent sessions 290 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: look like? How long does it take? Can you kind 291 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: of walk us through that process? 292 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 4: Absolutely? 293 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 3: Each client is different and almost always already out with 294 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 3: the consultation first, deciding what's in the best interests of 295 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 3: them as well as myself as it relates to the therapeutic relationship. 296 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 3: And then after we make the decision to go ahead 297 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 3: and decide to move forward, we schedule the first session, 298 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 3: and I'm letting them know in the first session and 299 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 3: the intake, we're probably not going to get into brain 300 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 3: spotting too quickly, wanting to get to know you a 301 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 3: little bit more, wanting to do a little bit more 302 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 3: psycho education. I do a lot of psycho education first 303 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 3: leading into the brain spotting session. 304 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 4: Some of my clients have heard of brain. 305 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 3: Spotting, some of them haven't, and because it is a 306 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 3: different technique in comparison to quote unquote talk therapy. I'm 307 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 3: explaining to them about fighting flight. Some of them have 308 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 3: heard of it, some of them haven't, explaining to them 309 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 3: about what the nervous system is looking like under fight 310 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 3: and flight, and different things of that nature. Some homework assignments, 311 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 3: all of that good stuff. And then maybe about the 312 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 3: fourth fifth session in they're ready. They're talking a little 313 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 3: bit more, building a little bit more rapport, getting to 314 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 3: know me a little bit more. 315 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 4: And what we'll do first is we'll start out with 316 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 4: some music. 317 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 3: So with brain spot David Grant he invented biolateral music, 318 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 3: so biobing two lateral music that they're putting in the 319 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 3: headphones earphones, and it's too because it's going in both sides. 320 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 3: As far as the hemispheres of the brain, we know 321 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 3: that the audio sensation aids as it relates to a 322 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 3: feeling of a neutralness, then maybe start to feel calm. 323 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 3: They don't have to be calm in order to do 324 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 3: brain spotting, but they're going to start to feel a 325 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 3: bit of a neutral feeling or relaxed feeling. I'll just 326 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 3: remind them of where they are. Just remember that you're 327 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 3: sitting down. You may start to feel a little bit 328 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 3: more relaxed. And then I'm asking them what are you feeling? 329 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: So is the music a particular kind of music? Is 330 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: it like standardized music that you play for every first 331 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: session or just some music you pick. 332 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 3: So the biolateral music has like the beach wavy sound, 333 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 3: and then there's drums, and then there's something else that's 334 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 3: being played. And what I'll tell them is just press play. 335 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 3: They'll get the link and I say, just press play anything. 336 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 3: I can listen to anything, anything, Just press play. Just 337 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 3: put it at a comfortable level where you can hear 338 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 3: it and me so if you need to adjust it, 339 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 3: that's fine because I just want you to baby to 340 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 3: hear me just in case I have any questions, and 341 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 3: just listen to the music as we focus. 342 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 2: On the pointer. 343 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: Oh so the music is playing as you are doing 344 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: the pointing. Absolutely, And so what happens like after the 345 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: session and like how do you maybe bring them out 346 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: of this and you know, allow them to kind of 347 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 1: move on with the rest of their day. 348 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 3: Again, it goes back to David Grant the uncertainty principle, 349 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 3: and he talks about the brain being designed to do 350 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 3: exactly what it needs to do. The brain knows what 351 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 3: it needs to do. The brain is healing as we're 352 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 3: doing these particular brain spotting techniques, and it's going to 353 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 3: continue to heal. And I'll let them know that your 354 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 3: brain knows exactly what it needs to do. As far 355 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 3: as any particular side effects or anything like that, No, 356 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 3: just allow the brain to take place. Now, this is 357 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 3: a body based modality. So you may feel so certain 358 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 3: type of things within your body. 359 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 4: You may not. You may have dreams, you may not. 360 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 4: You may have crying spells, you may not. 361 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 3: You may be just aokay and back and sitting in 362 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 3: front of me the next week and I don't know 363 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 3: that pointer thing. 364 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 4: I feel better. 365 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 3: I don't know why, but I'm just feeling a little 366 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 3: bit more relieved from feeling a little bit more. 367 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 4: Can we try that again? 368 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 3: Sure, and we go back into as far as that 369 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 3: particular technique. O. They're saying, I feel anything. Just went 370 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 3: on with my day. It was fine. I didn't feel 371 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 3: any type of effect. That's okay too. We are helping 372 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 3: to bring down the activity level, right, We're helping to 373 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 3: with this particular technique. 374 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 4: Hopefully they're going down to a four to a two, 375 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 4: to a three, to a one to a zero. 376 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 3: There are times they go up to a ten and 377 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 3: they stay at a ten and the session ends with 378 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 3: them being at a ten, and we're letting them know 379 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 3: that that's okay too, and obviously bringing in other different 380 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 3: type of techniques that we learned in therapy school like 381 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 3: CBT and other different type of techniques that we can 382 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 3: do as far as talk therapy, so that they have 383 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 3: the techniques and the tools to be able to process 384 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 3: and cope as a relate to the particular feelings that 385 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 3: they're feeling because I won't see you until next week. However, 386 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 3: the goal isn't for them to feel one hundred percent 387 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 3: better or feeling as far as no particular feeling after 388 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 3: the end of the brain spoty session. 389 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: And you mentioned that you are not typically doing a 390 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: lot of talking, so you're kind of just moving the 391 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: pointer and checking in with them around. 392 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 2: You know what got activated when you move. 393 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: To a certain place and you're just allowing them to talk. 394 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: At what point are you kind of like either wrapping 395 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: it up or moving the pointer again? Like, how does 396 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: the flow of the session because you do say like, Okay, 397 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: we're not going to see each other for another week. 398 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: So it sounds like sessions are still about an hour 399 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: fifty minutes or so. So at what point are you 400 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: kind of like wrapping up the processing that they're doing. 401 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 3: I do a little bit more talking and I'm explaining 402 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 3: to them, Okay, we've got about maybe ten minutes left 403 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 3: in the session. Five minutes and left in the session. 404 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 3: I'm just checking in. Maybe they're process a little bit more, 405 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 3: maybe they won't. Maybe they're just completely focused there on 406 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 3: that poinner or whatnot, and that's the processing, just them 407 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 3: being focused on a porner. Others may talk and do 408 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 3: more what they're talking. Others may cry and do more 409 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 3: with the crying or whatnot. But as we're moving towards 410 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 3: the latter part of the minutes of the sessions, I 411 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 3: am communicating with them and letting them know as far 412 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 3: as the session coming. 413 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 2: To a close. 414 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 3: Then once they're agreeable that everything is complete for them 415 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 3: in that particular session, this is what we're going to 416 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 3: work through. I'll bring down the pointer, check back in 417 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 3: with them, talk about next steps when we meet next 418 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 3: and different things that nature. 419 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 4: What you may feel after the sessions. 420 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 3: What you may not feel You may feel like you 421 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 3: can go run and do XYZ. You may just need 422 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 3: to take a couple of minutes like any other therapy 423 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 3: session and just sit over to yourself for a little bit 424 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 3: and collect your thoughts. 425 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 1: I want to know who would be maybe a good 426 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: candidate or maybe not a good candidate for brain spotting. 427 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 3: Everybody is a good candidate for brain spotting. 428 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 4: Everybody. 429 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 3: It does not matter your background, socioeconomic status, raise everybody 430 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 3: is a good candidate for brain spotting. I actually had 431 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 3: the special privilege of participating in both of my training sessions. 432 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 3: Want to become certified in a BIPOC training Black Indigenous 433 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 3: Practitioners of color. 434 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 4: And when David would come in to introduce. 435 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 3: Himself the founder, he talked about that particular question and 436 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 3: he talked about everyone having the opportunity to be exposed, 437 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 3: to understand and to learn more about brain spotting. That 438 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 3: brain spotting is not just for someone writing a Mercedes 439 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 3: or owns XYZ. 440 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 4: Brain Spotting is just as. 441 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 3: Effective and may be more needed for someone who's taken 442 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 3: the bus. And you know, for me, as a black clinician, 443 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 3: what can I do and how can I be purposeful 444 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 3: and intentional as far as getting brain spotting out to 445 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 3: the community where people look like myself, my features and 446 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 3: all of that good stuff, that can learn a little 447 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 3: bit more about this body based modality and how we 448 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 3: can bring the body into the healing process. When it 449 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 3: comes to psychotherapy, they do tell us that if you're 450 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 3: working with certain populations, obviously to take that under consideration 451 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 3: and what particular training you may need. That's another benefit 452 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 3: of brain spotting. Therapists are not the only people trained 453 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 3: in brain spotting. Nurses, medical doctors, psychiatrists, occupational therapists, physical 454 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 3: therapists are trained in brain spotting have become consultants or 455 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 3: international trainers. My consultant actually when I was getting my 456 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 3: clinical hours for my certification, she was a registered nurse. 457 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 3: And is there I know, I'm sure this is different 458 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 3: for every client, but is there like an average number 459 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 3: of sessions that. 460 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 2: People typically complete of brain spoting? 461 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 3: There is no average number of sessions. So when they 462 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 3: ask how many sessions is it going to take for 463 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 3: me to start to feel better? You can feel better 464 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 3: after the first session, you can feel better after the 465 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 3: fifth session. Some it may take a little bit longer, 466 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 3: but you will start to feel better. 467 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 2: And how are you gauging effectiveness? 468 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 4: That is a really good question. 469 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 3: They come back and effectiveness looks different for each person. Obviously, 470 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 3: going back to what brought them effectiveness could be I 471 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 3: started out as a five. By the end of that session, Nicole, 472 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 3: I was at a ten. But for some reason something 473 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 3: different took place after I ended with you. I just 474 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 3: felt as though I was able to cope. 475 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 4: It was just a. 476 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 3: Different experience of a ten. So that felt sense coming 477 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 3: back into play for them, and I'll ask them what 478 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 3: did you mean by that? Can you tell me a 479 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 3: little bit more about what that meant? I don't know 480 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 3: whereas before I may have been prone to do something maladaptive, 481 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 3: you know, unhealthy. I just found myself this will pass. 482 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 3: Maybe it goes back to some of the psycho education 483 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 3: that we were doing prior, as far as what I 484 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 3: was learning a little bit more about my body. Okay, 485 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 3: I'm just in panic. This is what's going on. This 486 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 3: is why I'm feeling this tightness. This is why I'm 487 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 3: feeling this. This is why I'm feel knowing that and 488 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 3: I called a friend, or I started a journal, or 489 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 3: I ran a bath, or I took a walk, So 490 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 3: even though I was feeling these symptoms, I can cope 491 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 3: and I'm back here and I would like to try 492 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 3: it again. 493 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 4: That's effective. 494 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, So how did 495 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: you become interested in this nicole? And I'm curious to 496 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: know how learning more about like some of these body 497 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: and movement based modalities have really expanded your practice. 498 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 3: So from a personal standpoint, I have experienced loss, grief 499 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 3: and loss, specifically both of my parents passing at a 500 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 3: very young age. By the time I was thirty one, 501 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 3: I buried both of my parents. My father died tragically. 502 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 3: My mother died eight years to the day after he passed. 503 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 3: So May first, my father died May second, my mother died. 504 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 3: We actually transitioned her into hospice the day that he died, 505 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 3: on his eighth anniversary. She died twenty four hours later. 506 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 3: So as you can imagine that time of year, this 507 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 3: time of year has always been like a boom boom, 508 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 3: it's always been like a double whammy or whatnot. And 509 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 3: had a really good mentor licensed clinical social worker at 510 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 3: that particular point, both of my parents had died via hospice, 511 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 3: so I had the privilege of seeking services through hospice, 512 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 3: and she said, well, is anyone doing body based modalities 513 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 3: with you? And of course I was body based modalities 514 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 3: And she's explaining to me a little bit more as 515 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 3: far as what that may mean, as far as unlocking 516 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 3: some of the grief that was taking place with me 517 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 3: because of the double deaths and experiencing them as simultaneously 518 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 3: as I did. And I said no, She said, it 519 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 3: just might be something you may want to look into. 520 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 3: And she just started sending me some research and some information, 521 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 3: knowing me and knowing that I'm something of a lover 522 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 3: of all knowledge, and I would, you know, research myself 523 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 3: and look into a little bit more. And I just 524 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 3: started doing that. And she had already been trained, i 525 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 3: want to say, in brain spotting and was explaining to 526 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 3: me that might be something that I may want to 527 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 3: look into as far as also being trained in, particularly 528 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 3: with the work that I was doing with young black women. 529 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 4: And I signed up and I took. 530 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 3: A course and I started the training, and I guess 531 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 3: the rest is history, as they say. 532 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 1: So you already talked a little bit about, you know, 533 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: really wanting to bring this to black and brown communities. 534 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: Why do you think modalities like this are very good 535 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: or could be a really good fit for the black 536 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: women clients that you see. 537 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 3: Culture mental health has a stigma in the black community, 538 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 3: just the stigma associated with mental health. And when we 539 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 3: hear counseling and when we hear therapy and culture, what 540 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 3: happens in this house stays in this house. We don't 541 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 3: talk about it, talk talk, We don't talk about it. 542 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 3: So who am I to say what someone needs to 543 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,880 Speaker 3: be doing as far as talking about it when we 544 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 3: may be a part of a culture where we don't 545 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 3: talk about it, And how can you when we already 546 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 3: said when we first started out and the Olympic system, 547 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 3: trauma has no sense of time, has no sense of language. 548 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 3: We hear people say after a traumatic event sometimes I 549 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 3: just had no words. I literally had no words for 550 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 3: what happened to me. I had no words. 551 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 4: No, you did it. 552 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 3: And part of what I do to validate them in 553 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 3: that therapeutic process, how could you? The Olympic system has 554 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 3: no sense of time, and it has no sense of language. 555 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 3: And keep in mind, you don't talk with your mouth. 556 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 3: We talk out of our mouth. But there's a particular 557 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 3: part in the brain that's aiding in us talking, just 558 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 3: like you see with your brain, you hear with your brain, 559 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 3: you feel with your brain. How we touched, how we 560 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 3: were touched those first five years of life, the attachment 561 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 3: that went back to nine times out of tend a 562 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 3: primary caregiver, which was a mother. That all was taking place. 563 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 3: As far as the development of the brain, so the 564 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 3: olympics system, the occipital lobe which helps us to see, 565 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 3: which overlaps with other loaves, as far as the perietal 566 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 3: lobe which helps us to feel in touch, which also 567 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 3: overlaps with the temporal lobe that goes back to sound, 568 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 3: which also is over here near the prefrontal cortex. As 569 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 3: far as language and different things that nature we learn language, 570 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 3: acquisition and comprehension and speech, all of that with the brain. 571 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 3: Wouldn't it help us to have techniques that aid us 572 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 3: in regards to helping someone who has no words to. 573 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 4: Not have to have words. 574 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 3: Do I necessarily need to know exactly what happened when 575 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 3: you were ten years old in that particular situation that happened. 576 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 3: David Graham says, No, the specifics and the details aren't 577 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 3: necessarily what's important helping my individual or putting an environment 578 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 3: as a clinician. We learn that in therapy school as 579 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 3: far as the achievement and as far as the therapeutic 580 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 3: alliance and person centered thinking, all that good stuff that's 581 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 3: going to aid them and being able to process however 582 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 3: they need to process. Possibly is what's more of importance 583 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 3: for me than knowing specifically based off of your language, 584 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 3: specifically what happened to you. If that person just needs 585 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 3: to cry for thirty minutes, that's how they processed. 586 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: So if somebody is interested in finding a brain spoting 587 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: practitioner to work with. 588 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 2: Where would they find these people? 589 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: Like is there a directory you talked about like needing certification? 590 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: So how can they find somebody who is credential to 591 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: do this kind of work? 592 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 3: Right on the brain spotting website brainspotting dot com, every 593 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 3: certified brain sparting practitioner, every consultant, and every international trainer 594 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 3: is listed on the website their particular state, their name, 595 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 3: their license, and what their expertise is. Like myself certified 596 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 3: brain sparting practitioner, you will find that on the website. 597 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 2: Got it. 598 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: And for therapists who may be enjoying our conversation, what 599 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: kinds of things do they need? To know if they're 600 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: interested in getting trained in this kind of modality, go. 601 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 4: Straight on that website. 602 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 3: You'll be able to see as far as what's listed, 603 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 3: as far as different particular trainings where they're listed. He 604 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 3: has trainings, different trainers from all over the world, almost 605 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 3: every continent. David Brand has been to talk a little 606 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 3: bit more as it relates to the benefits of brain 607 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 3: spotting and how all different types of people of all 608 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 3: different topic walks of life and cultures are getting trained 609 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 3: in brainspotting. 610 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 2: Perfect. 611 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: So it sounds like that website is a great source 612 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: of resources if people have any kinds of questions or 613 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: want to learn more about brainspotting in general. Right there, Perfect, Well, 614 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: what is your website, Nicole? Is there a website that 615 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: you can share any social media handles where people can 616 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: stay connected with you. 617 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 4: Yes, the name of my practice is Jeweler's Health. 618 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 3: I practice here in the local area of Charlotte, North Carolina, 619 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 3: and you can go on Jewelerhealth dot org health dot 620 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 3: org to. 621 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 4: Find me Perfect. 622 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: We'll be sure to include all of that in the 623 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time 624 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: with us today, Nicole. I appreciate it. 625 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 4: I appreciate meeting doctor Joy. 626 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. 627 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: I'm so glad Nicole was able to share her expertise 628 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: with us today. To learn more about her and her work, 629 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for 630 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot Com slash Session three thirty four, And don't 631 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: forget to text two of your girls right now and 632 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: tell them to check out the episode. If you're looking 633 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist 634 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And 635 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: if you want to continue digging into this topic or 636 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: just be in community with other sisters, come on over 637 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy 638 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: corner of the Internet, designed just for black women. You 639 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. 640 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and 641 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all 642 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: so much for joining me again this week. I look 643 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. 644 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 2: Take good care. 645 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: What introducing the new Therapy for Black Girls holiday gift collection, 646 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: our new ensemble of Drinkwaar totes, journals, and sweatshirts were 647 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: designed with coziness and utility in mind, while offering a 648 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: gentle reminder that we are precious cargo and should be 649 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: handled with care. Happy holidays, y'all, remember to take good 650 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: care and give good gifts.