WEBVTT - Kristen Bitterly Michell on Wealth Management 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:05.960 M This is Mesters in Business with Very Results on 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:10.960 Bloomberg Radio. This week on the podcast, I have an 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:14.520 extra special guest. Her name is Kristin Biddoly Michelle. She 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:18.920 is head of North America Investments for City Global Wealth, 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:23.520 which is a giant wealth management arm of the giant 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:27.280 City Bank. They run over eight hundred billion dollars in 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:32.760 client assets, and Kristen's group, the North American Group, is 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.760 responsible for about half of the revenue that that massive 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:42.680 organization generates. She really has an incredible background in everything 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:46.559 from capital markets to derivatives to wealth management. And I 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:51.080 found this to be an absolutely fascinating conversation covering everything 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:57.680 from risk to inflation to how to manage markets and 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:00.760 how to manage investments when market show a lot of 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:04.520 volatility and everybody starts to get a little nervous. I 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:07.000 thought this was quite fascinating, and I think you will 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:11.759 also with no further ado, my conversation with City Global Wealth. 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:18.400 Kristen Bitterly Michelle, So, you have really very interesting background. 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:22.240 You've been involved with capital markets for your entire career. 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:26.080 What led you to this area. It's really interesting because 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:27.920 I'm not someone that you would think would be the 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.440 typical profile to end up in capital markets or or 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.959 sales and trading. I'm from a very small town in 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.160 the middle of Pennsylvania. It's a town of about four 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:41.720 thousand people. So exposure to markets or investment banking, or 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.240 any of the careers in finance was not something that 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.560 you really envisioned. And so coming out of school, I 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:53.080 studied economics and Spanish literature, and I applied to a 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:56.760 program that actually targeted liberal arts majors. It was at 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.200 Bank one at the time. It was called the First 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.160 Scholars Program AM, and they targeted liberal arts majors, and 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.280 the whole concept of it was, why don't we take 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:07.200 liberal arts majors, give them on the job training, give 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.840 them exposure to a variety of different areas of banking 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.440 and finance. And so this gave me exposure to everything 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:18.640 from investment banking to retail looking at like checking account 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:21.240 campaigns like how do you get more assets in the door? 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.600 To credit risk, and ultimately, to make a very long 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:28.200 story short, I fell in love with derivatives. So derivatives 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.600 were a part where I was very intimidated. I wasn't 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:33.720 that typical person that did a number of you know 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:39.120 internships during the summer had that with no No, I 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:42.040 was econ and kind of geeky. I love statistics, I 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.079 loved math, but really I was going to go down 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.080 that literature route more than anything else and and study 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.600 Spanish literature. And so when I arrived and got this 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:55.040 exposure and on the job training, I really challenged myself 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:56.320 to do the thing that I thought was going to 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.840 be the scariest, and so derivatives at the time seemed 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:03.520 like the scariest, the scariest area, and so I said, 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.400 all right, it's six months, let's see, let's see how 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:09.600 this goes. And so it was within the corporate equity 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:15.040 Derivatives team. I was very lucky to have amazing mentors, 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.360 amazing people around me who really taught me about the business, 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.360 taught me about markets. And once I started making that 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.480 translation in my mind that it's just a different language, 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:27.480 it's different vernacular. Like when you think of derivatives, it's 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.960 like statistics, right, if you have a base foundation in statistics, 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:34.560 it's just translating those different concepts to a new language. 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:36.560 I very quickly fell in love with it. I I 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:38.480 fell in love with equity derivatives. I thought they were 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:42.280 amazing building blocks and a really creative part. And it 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.800 was this combination of being, like I said, kind of 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:48.040 geeky kind of quantity, but then being client facing. And 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:50.320 so that was really kind of the early formation where 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:52.040 I'm like, this is the area where I want to be. 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.160 I want to be client facing, I want to help 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:58.840 client solve problems. But having this very creative, almost modular 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:03.200 part in terms of designing solutions and structuring solutions I loved. 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:08.240 So let's talk exactly about that at City in two 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:12.200 thousand and seven fantastic time, and you take over as 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.520 head of structured solutions. Tell us a little bit about 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:19.360 what that job entailed under normal circumstances, and then we'll 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.720 talk about the couple of years that followed. Sure, so 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:24.839 I'll tell you a little bit about how I came 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:27.920 to City. So I spent a long time in markets, 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:30.640 Like I said, big focus on derivatives, both on the 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.160 sales as well as structuring side. I covered corporate clients, 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.000 institutional clients, as well as ultra high net worth and 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.200 high net worth clients. At the time when I started 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.520 really focusing in that part of the industry, a lot 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.280 of those corporate equity derivative teams. They covered both, they 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:48.760 covered individuals as well as as well as the corporations. 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:52.279 And so throughout that journey and covering different regions, different 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.760 types of clients, I found that with the high net 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:59.360 worth ultra highnetworth clients you developed a much stronger relationship. 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:03.080 So this was a part of the market that it 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:07.479 really challenged your own understanding of these strategies because these 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:11.160 were clients that some of them were very sophisticated when 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.480 it came to financial products. Some of them it was 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.320 their first experience. They had a big liquidity event, they 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.280 sold their company to another company, their company just went public, 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.080 and it's the first time that they're talking about options, 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.880 right and strategies to exactly to be able to hedge, 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:29.480 maintain wealth, monetize wealth. And so this ability to either 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.680 go super technical with someone who was an expert in 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:34.599 that field, and also be able to roll it back 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.320 and just explain at a very high level, you know, 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.320 what is the purpose of the strategy, what is it 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.560 helping you do? What could go wrong? And so ultimately, 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.279 given the different types of client segments that I had covered, 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:46.919 I made the decision that I really wanted to be 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.120 in wealth management, and so two thousand seven, UM, I 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:53.599 came over to city. My husband, UM always teases me 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:55.440 on this point that he says, you know, aren't you, 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:57.599 in some aspects kind of a trader? And when you 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.800 think about market timing, was two thousands even the best 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.240 time to make a move, um, But it ended up 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.080 being a perfect time actually long term for for my career. 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.080 And so coming into the city a lot of changes 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.159 right on the brink of the Great Financial Crisis. And 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.520 you know, the one challenge there, Berry was the fact 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.680 that we were selling these these products and solutions that 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:24.720 actually were extremely relevant given market conditions. But obviously, you know, 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:29.800 protecting your wealth, hedging downside risk, providing liquidity, helping people 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:34.200 navigate margin calls. But obviously it was a really challenging environment, 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.159 a lot of market volatility, and anything that had the 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.880 counter party of a large bank was not something that 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.360 was going to go over well. So there's always risk 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:47.160 involve with which people tend to ignore when things are 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:50.760 pretty well, Let's say in two thousand seven, a lot 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.720 of people weren't thinking about counter party risk. Tell us 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.479 what it was like when everything hits the fan. In 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.599 O eight oh nine, derivatives blow up, not that you 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:05.680 were playing in the leverage, not at all. Risk management. 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.680 That's a different sort of derivative than c d O CMOS, 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:15.880 CDO squared, etcetera. You were basically doing more rational We're 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:19.080 helping people customize their risk return profile across asset classes, 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:20.960 is the way that I think about it. And so 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:23.160 there's definitely a pre in post. I mean, when you 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:25.800 look at that pre it was you know, the thought 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.880 counterparty risk of a bank was solid, right, Like that 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.280 was something it wasn't even questioned. I'm sure you remember 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:33.560 this as well in terms of the bond market, whether 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.040 you were looking at structured products bonds, this idea that 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.600 hey it's issued by this bank, that bank, well known, 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:43.240 diversified financial services institution. And then the interesting thing is 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.400 before we really saw that the unwinding of risk, I mean, 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.080 you saw credit spreads widen, right. You started to see 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:53.240 credit spreads to sniff things out. Kind of I hate 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:57.440 to anthropomorphous size markets, but there's a sense that some 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.960 participants in the market are sniffing us out and it 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.560 gets reflected in prices. You can see credit spreads widen, 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.280 and it's something you people are like Wow, that's great, Right, 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.040 they're willing to pay me more. Now I'm getting a 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.520 higher yield on this. And so I think for a reason, 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:14.280 looking back, you learn from every experience. But I think 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:16.600 that's one of those one of those moments in time 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.000 where you're like, if something is too good to be true, 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:21.920 it probably is too good to be true, and questioning 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:25.200 why something is yielding the amount that it's yielding, and 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:29.000 so living through that experience, I mean, from a personal standpoint, 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.600 it was tragic, right, Like lives were completely changed across 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.480 obviously the United States, the global economy, and then you 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:39.680 saw a lot of people that you really respected, really 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.960 cared about. There is a massive amounts of layoffs, and 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.000 so I think it was a very very seismic shift 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.800 in terms of just what we thought finance was, what 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.400 we thought sales and trading was, the stability of that 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.800 type of career. And so I think from that perspective, 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.920 you really realize that nothing is guaranteed. You have a 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.959 lot of gratitude for being able to work in this industry, 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:03.560 and then you also have to really make sure that 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.720 people realize and again we carry this through to wealth 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.400 management more broadly. If you don't understand what you're doing, 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:11.920 you should not invest in it, to say the very least. 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.120 So from there you rise to the position head of 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:19.960 Investments for North America for City Global Wealth. It sounds 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.319 similar to a c i A role Chief Investment officer role. 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.440 Tell us a little bit about your current role and 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:30.040 what it involves. Sure, I love my current role. I 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:33.800 love leading investments for North America for City Global Wealth. 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:37.400 This is an area where if you hear Jane Fraser speak, 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.559 it's it's an area where we're heavily investing UM. As 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.160 an institution, one of our key objectives is to be 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.360 a global leader in wealth management, and so my mandate 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.640 in leading North America is really to lead the investments organization. 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.400 And so that's a combination bury to your point about 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.400 the c i O role in terms of what strategy, 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:57.520 How are we advising our clients, how are we breaking 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:59.959 down markets? So there's a strategy component to that. They're 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:04.520 a client coverage component to that. Depending upon UM, your wealth, 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.600 depending upon your objectives, who are you interacting with, whether 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:11.160 it's an investment advisor, investment counselor, or whether it's product 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.520 specialists who have deep expertise in a particular asset class 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.560 or product. It's our product organization making sure that we're 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:22.439 offering the right products and solutions, how we're analyzing what 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.360 we offer to our clients, how we're differentiating that versus 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:27.920 the competition. And the last piece of it, which I've 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:31.120 become really passionate about over the past really kind of 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:33.559 five to ten years of my career, is the technology 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.080 and platform. So if you think about some of the 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:40.120 trends within wealth management, it's not just about the personalization 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:43.760 bespoke solutions, although that is something that is certainly gained 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.439 um a lot of popularity and grounded and is almost 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.000 becoming table stakes. But there's a big piece of it 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:52.640 that's digitization, right and the platform and how easy is 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:56.040 it to access your advice and put capital to work. 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:58.480 And you can see some of the trends just from 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.800 the digital world, right it and that comparison, if someone's 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.880 going to do an online transaction and online trade that 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.080 is almost like I use the example, it's like seamless 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.840 grubhub right where you call up and like this idea 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:15.120 of ordering a pizza right and calling a pizza place 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.400 if you go on like on an app, and if 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:19.680 that pizza place isn't open, You're going to the next one. 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.480 No one's calling anymore. And so those trends within our 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:26.120 industry as to some of those experiences that our clients 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.439 want where it's contactless, right, this should be frictionless, it 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.000 should be pretty easy for me to do versus where 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:35.640 we're really adding value in terms of advice. So the platform, 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.840 digital experience and technology is really really critical as well, 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:43.000 really quite quite interesting. So you've been at City for 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.600 over sixteen years. That's a long time at any one place. 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:48.960 Tell us about what's kept you there for this long? 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.960 It will be seventeen come December. Yeah, so it's been 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:57.320 a great experience. Look, I've been very fortunate at City. 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.200 I've had a lot of support, a lot of eight 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.000 people around me, a lot of great mentors, right, And 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:05.319 I think that one of the things that citied as 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:09.120 remarkably well is really allows you to transition throughout your 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.000 career in terms of exploring different areas of the business. 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.200 And so while you can see that concentration and markets 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.280 and sales and trading, once I started really working with 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.000 our private bank in a meaningful way, I was then 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.520 able to lead teams of investment counselors and investors. I 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.760 ran investments for the East region. I then came back 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:31.440 into capital markets and and got to really kind of see, Okay, 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.319 how are we running this business and really setting the 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:38.120 up this business for this client segment of family offices, 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:42.280 ultra highnetworth, highnetworth investors. And so while you could see 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.320 this common vein, it really has given me the ability 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.800 to flex different muscles. And that's not just me. I 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.800 mean that's something that's really really common throughout our organization. 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:52.600 And you'll see that with a lot of people. And 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.160 it doesn't have to be all within wealth management. It 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:57.320 can be a cross lines of business. So I think 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.000 city and our culture is one of let's keep our 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.880 good people, Let's give them opportunities, whether it's in their 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.080 immediate world or outside. And then the other thing that 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.080 I will say is that I think culturally it's a 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:14.880 very flat organization. There's access to everyone's accessible. And what 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.120 I've seen that's really special about our culture is even 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.719 when we've had those situations where we lose people, they 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:26.319 tend to come back. We call them boomerang um. They 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.760 try something else for one to two years and then 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.000 they say you know what this this place just in 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.559 terms of the access, the culture, that drive to kind 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:38.239 of grow together do stuff as a team. It feels entrepreneurial, 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.760 even though we're such an old bank, right, So that's 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.280 really what's kept me here. And I think now that 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:47.400 we're embarking upon with Jane taking over at CEO, this 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.440 massive focus and wealth, which is my passion as well. 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.280 I am so excited for the next several years. So 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.880 let me make sure I understand the path that led 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.760 you to City. You were at Bank one, yeah, right, 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:03.320 and if I recall correct, they were required by JP Morgan, 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.280 So that's how you ended up at JP Morgan. Then 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.600 Credit Swiss, that's right, what led you to go from 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:13.280 Credit Swiss to City. So each part of my career, 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:16.079 I would say, is it's something I learned a lot. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.440 I experienced a lot um so it's like different building blocks. 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.360 But the Bank one JP Morgan days, that was out 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.920 in Chicago, So I worked out in Chicago. That was when. 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.520 It's a very fun town. I have a soft spot 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.400 for Chicago. The food. We could talk about the food first. 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:36.040 I'm in Chicago every year for Thanksgiving, so it's Turkey 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.360 is just where we start. Then it's yeah, we gotta yeah, 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.160 we definitely need to get into pizza. I'm a Luma 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:44.400 Natis girl. I don't know how i could go Mill 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.920 Natis or Eduardo's. I'm very I'm very New York, open 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:52.160 mind people, opportunity, there we go. But so in Chicago, 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:53.960 it was a really interesting time because if you remember, 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.080 that's when Jamie Diamond was running bank, right, so talk 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.840 about a flat organization, someone who at that moment in 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:06.479 time was truly a rising star, and he was very accessible, 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:08.640 spent a lot of time. I always remember him being 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:12.400 like very client centric, very very client centric. So if 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:15.720 it was a client of the firm, um making himself accessible, 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.280 making himself available to close those transactions. And so obviously 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:24.920 the rest is history. In terms of JPMorgan I'm a 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:26.600 big fan. Though I'm a big fan, I know it's 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.920 a compeating it's a competing bank. He's a phenomenal leader. 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.000 How do you not appreciate a person who steps into 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:37.800 that role through the takeover and just basically revitalizes the 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.760 whole organization, who was a very impressive career And I 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.480 admire him a lot and and everything that that he's 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.440 done and so I think then like the transition in 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:49.600 my own career. Right, So when we were going through 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:53.080 all of those transitions with JP Morgan acquiring Bank One, 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.840 you know, one of the downsides to that talking about 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.280 you know, our our fondness of the city of Chicago 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:00.320 is a lot of jobs moved to New York, Right, 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.360 So a lot of UM what was kind of that 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.920 big bank that was like one of the last banks 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:09.320 in Chicago and trading floors and things like that. I'm 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.520 talking about diversified financial services. Obviously we weren't going to 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:14.440 have two of everything, and we we had to to 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.160 move that to New York. And so with that experience 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.880 moving to New York, I did move to to credit 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.400 suite and really that was to flex a slightly different 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.840 muscle in the job. There was building out the Latin 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:32.080 American business UM selling derivatives, structured products UM to Latin 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.760 American UM banks and broker dealer. So let me stop 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:40.040 you right there. You have a background undergraduate your economics 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:44.360 degree from Notre Dame, but you were dual major Spanish 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:49.560 language and literature degree. How useful was that in Latin America? Like, 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:53.120 how did you end up in finance Spanish language and literature. 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.600 It was incredibly useful and it's still useful to this day. 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.600 So I am a fluent Spanish speaker. I lived in Spain, 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:03.320 I lived in Mexico, my husband's from Mexico. Um so 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.560 I speak Spanish and my personal life, I've I've used 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.240 it in my professional life, and so when I was 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.639 covering Latin America, I will say it was a competitive 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.840 advantage in which everybody speaks English, but you show up 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.840 speaking the local language. I have to think that's well received. 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.040 It is well received, and I think Americans have have 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.200 a reputation for not being multi lingual, for not speaking 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.760 another language, and you know, working at a global bank 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.720 like city where we're constantly interacting with people from around 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:34.920 the globe, and you see how many other languages are 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.560 our colleagues speak. But at that moment in time, really 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.960 kind of focusing on Latin America and then going in region, 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.600 going down to Miami, being able to have meetings in Spanish. 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.560 And one thing that I did have to learn though, 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.399 is I so while I was fluent in Spanish, I 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:54.280 wasn't fluent in let's call it financial language. And so 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:56.199 you start to learn things like well, so, how do 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.840 you say call option? How do you say so? As 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:01.720 I was like chating with different people are communicating with 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.800 different people on on Bloomberg, let's say I would, then 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:06.840 you know what word are they saying? What does that 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.520 mean in terms of financial slang. So it was really 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.640 fun because it developed that part of my language skills. 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.119 But most importantly it was great because, like the client 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:18.560 base was different, their risk appetite was different. And one 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:20.280 of the things that I learned is, you know, the 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.240 difference when you look at a US average let's say 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.720 wealth client versus someone who grew up in Latin America. 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:29.360 Someone who grew up in Latin America has and I'm 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.840 just saying on average, right, this isn't a generalization, but 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:37.560 they have a higher risk tolerance, they've seen hyper inflationary environments, um, 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.560 they understand currencies, and so when you think of the 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.920 area that I was very passionate about in derivatives, there's 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.359 a natural understanding just by growing up in an economy 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:51.720 like that that interest rate risk matters, f X risk matters, 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:57.479 commodity risk matters, and so inflation really can impact, right, 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.000 can severely impact you were net worth, and so it 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:03.720 was almost like this client base grew up with a 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:07.280 natural understanding of derivatives and markets, even though maybe they 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.240 didn't recognize that it was derivatives. But there is such 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.040 an easy and it was very facile because of what 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.480 they lived through. So it was definitely an advantage. But 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.439 then when I ran capital markets UM in North America 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:21.960 and Latin America. UM, you can ask many of my 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:25.080 colleagues if the dominant language is Spanish, we have meetings 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.520 in Spanish if it's a one on one meeting, and 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.720 you find you know, people's personalities can be different in 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.960 different languages. Their sense of humor, for sure, can be different. 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.439 And so it's been a great experience. So let me 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.560 flip that on its head. The concept of being more 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:45.840 risk embracing, more aware of inflation, currencies, etcetera. Here in 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:49.879 the US, how complacent are we because the dollar is 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.240 the reserve currency of the world. We don't think about currencies. 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:58.119 We don't usually think about inflation, except since the pandemic. 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:00.480 I haven't thought about it int years. It was a 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.800 little spike pre financial crisis, but for the most part 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:08.720 it's been a deflationary environment. How does working in North 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:14.000 America with a client base that doesn't have those same 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.480 sort of sensitivities. How different is that than Latin America. 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:19.520 So I would say there's a couple of things that 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.280 are really important from a and i'll say US perspective, right, 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:27.320 So from a US perspective, um, how you hold your 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.080 assets is just as important as what you hold, right, 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:34.159 So the ship or meaning custodians of course, like in 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.800 terms of of counterparty, but also thinking of like your 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.080 wealth planning and the structure of your assets, um, the 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.320 trusts that are available to you, how you want to 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:45.399 think about trust and estate planning, and so within the 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:47.479 U s there's a big focus on how do we 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:51.359 optimize for tax efficiency too? And so what you'll notice is, 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:54.040 you know, I think there's almost this thought process that 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:56.679 everyone wants to be an active trader, And what you 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.680 realize is, yes, there are people who are sincerely interested 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:02.520 in gets and they follow them and they're passionate about them, 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:05.120 but they're also really concerned about the after tax impact 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:07.840 of what they're doing and how they're investing. So I 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:10.679 think that's a piece of it. I think your average 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:13.480 US investor aware of interest rates, right, So aware of 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:15.199 interest rates in terms of what am I earning on 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.199 my deposits, kind of what are the average yields an 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:21.800 investment grade debt and understanding mortgage rates and and the 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.640 impact in terms of liabilities f X is almost absent 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.720 to a large degree, right for the the average investor. 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:32.920 That being said, like I mentioned earlier, we're a global bank, 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.080 and so like one of the major advantages we have 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:39.920 is bringing those international opportunities to our clients, to investors 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:42.240 and making sure that we're not we don't suffer from 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:45.080 that home bias in terms of how we're allocating capital. 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:48.280 And so that's an area where you can then combine 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.560 all of these things that I've that I've talked about. 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.159