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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if.

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Speaker 2: You've had experience with manipulation or abusive power that you'd

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Speaker 2: like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or.

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Speaker 1: Showed us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, trust me, trust me.

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Speaker 1: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 2: I've never lived to you, and if you think that

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Speaker 2: one person has all the answers, don't welcome to trust Me.

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Speaker 2: The podcast about cult, extreme belief and manipulation from two

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Speaker 2: great listeners who've actually experienced it. I am Lola Blanc

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Speaker 2: and I'm making Elizabeth and today our guests are two

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Speaker 2: of our listeners, Stephanie and Annie. Stephanie is going to

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Speaker 2: talk to us about being married to a controlling partner

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Speaker 2: who eventually began stalking her, the financial abuse that she

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Speaker 2: experienced within that relationship, and how she was able to

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Speaker 2: leave and become independent.

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Speaker 3: Annie's going to talk to us about growing up Mormon,

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Speaker 3: what it was like going on a mission, often going

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Speaker 3: hungry and helped. She became depressed and suicidal because she

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Speaker 3: had realized she was gay and did not feel accepted

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Speaker 3: for who she was in the Mormon community.

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Speaker 2: Plus how she came to choose herself and is turning

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Speaker 2: her own experience into a way to help LGBTQ kids

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Speaker 2: going through something similar. Our listeners are amazing. Alrighty, before

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Speaker 2: we start talking to these gals, Megan, what's the cultyest

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Speaker 2: thing that's happening this week?

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Speaker 3: Amazon has hired a former private prison corrections worker as

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Speaker 3: their fulfillment center warehouse person.

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Speaker 2: So a CEO from a prison.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so an ex prison executive is running the fulfillment

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Speaker 3: center warehouse training where staff complain of zero breaks while

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Speaker 3: drivers have to pee and bobble.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, so actually at the executive level, so he

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Speaker 2: is running this shit like a fucking prison, which also

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Speaker 2: should not be run like a prison. Even prisons shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be run like prisons.

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Speaker 3: And also it's a woman. Her name is Dana Howard.

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Speaker 2: Well, Dana can suck my dick. I know it's culty

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Speaker 2: in that they are not treated humanely, like onto a

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Speaker 2: very controlling cult, but it's also culty in that it's

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Speaker 2: just kind of the cult of capitalism and the prison

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Speaker 2: industrial complex. I mean, it's just bad on a lot

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Speaker 2: of levels. It's bad.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pretty wild. What about you?

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Speaker 2: So remember I told you that I had attended Sanctum

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Speaker 2: the sex party a couple of times.

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Speaker 3: Yes, how could I forget?

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Speaker 4: So?

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Speaker 2: The founder of Sanctum is this guy named Damon and

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Speaker 2: Damon Lonner I think is his last name. He Damon

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Speaker 2: who now goes by father Damon Damon. If you all

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Speaker 2: have like showtime and you watch like it's like the

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Speaker 2: Showtime version of Skinemax, I think they have naked Sanctum

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Speaker 2: and it was a reality show, a slash docu series

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Speaker 2: and quotes following him and Sanctum, so you can see

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Speaker 2: this man in a show and how he is. He's

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Speaker 2: fucking creepy. But now so he sold Sanctum I guess

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Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen and started a website called father Damon

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Speaker 2: dot com. This fool is like literally trying so hard

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Speaker 2: to make everyone think he's a cult leader. Like every

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Speaker 2: single move on this website. He's wearing a white flowy shirt.

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Speaker 2: There are images of him like with his hands together

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Speaker 2: with the sky behind him. There's a poem by him.

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Speaker 2: It talks about retreats. It talks about the journey. It

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Speaker 2: talks about an eternally unanswerable circular argument, trying to live

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Speaker 2: every day conscious, to wear and ingratitude. And then you

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Speaker 2: can buy his stupid fucking shirts for five hundred dollars.

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Speaker 2: It says, shop for charity. What is the charity? Okay?

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Speaker 2: He has this page for retreats, so you can pay

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Speaker 2: a bunch of money to go on these like sex

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Speaker 2: retreats with him where he's gonna teach you about your

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Speaker 2: own sexuality. So here's a paragraph from that. You might

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Speaker 2: find during these lessons that you are with the right

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Speaker 2: or wrong partner. When you become authentic to your heart's desires,

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Speaker 2: it can go either way. Sometimes what you have is

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Speaker 2: a valuable friendship but not a romantic love. When this

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Speaker 2: is the case, an open and honest conversation can be

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Speaker 2: had about overcoming whatever is in the way of mutual bliss.

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Speaker 2: If all else fails, there's the option of a conscious uncoupling. Basically,

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Speaker 2: this is how I'm reading this, yo, This is father Damon,

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Speaker 2: come on my sex retreat. You might not want to

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Speaker 2: be with your partner anymore, and you might decide you

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Speaker 2: want to fuck me instead, and that's okay, and that

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Speaker 2: means you're enlightened. And then there's a photo of him

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Speaker 2: with his eyes closed in a naked girl on top

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Speaker 2: of him.

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Speaker 3: Well, he's also touching her with a flower with a flower.

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Speaker 2: And then the next photo down his head is up

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Speaker 2: to the sky and his hands are out like he's

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Speaker 2: Jesus and he's in this like robe thingy. I can't,

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Speaker 2: I cannot. And then the pricing for you can get

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Speaker 2: an annual membership for fifty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: You have to admit that's a deal.

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Speaker 2: That is a really honestly coupon. Is this is this

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Speaker 2: a group on? Yeah? Is it's not Sanctum anymore? It's

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Speaker 2: father Damon?

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Speaker 5: Apologies, father damon, Father damon?

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Speaker 2: Will you be my father?

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Speaker 4: Wow?

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Speaker 2: So when you watch Naked Sanctum, there are moments where

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Speaker 2: I'm like, he's just grabbing this girl's boob like he's

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Speaker 2: hired her to be in their sex show, but he

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Speaker 2: is fully like just grabbing her boob at his own

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Speaker 2: Like there's all kinds of stuff like that. And I

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Speaker 2: am one, like ninety seven percent sure that there are

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Speaker 2: people who have really bad stories about this guy, and

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Speaker 2: it has not come out yet. So I'm just waiting

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Speaker 2: for that day, y'all, just waiting for that day. I

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Speaker 2: see him and I immediately get the creeps, Like I know,

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Speaker 2: I just like, I know this type of man, you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean?

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Speaker 5: Yep.

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Speaker 3: And actually this made me realize an episode that we

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Speaker 3: have to do. So listeners be prepared because I just

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Speaker 3: remembered a man who is equally psychotic, definitely a cult leader,

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Speaker 3: and I know someone that was.

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Speaker 4: In the cult.

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Speaker 2: Wow, can't wait? Well, wait to pique our interests. When

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Speaker 2: we don't get to hear about it.

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Speaker 4: You'll get a whole episode. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, not making any accusations of father Damon. I'm just saying,

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Speaker 2: gives me the creeps. I think there's some inappropriate stuff

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Speaker 2: that goes on. That's all all right, let's go to

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Speaker 2: the show. Welcome Stephanie. Thank you so much for joining us,

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Speaker 2: and thank you for reaching out to us. I really

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Speaker 2: appreciate when our listeners do that because so many of

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Speaker 2: you have such valuable stories that I think a.

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Speaker 6: Lot of people will be able to relate to.

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Speaker 2: So very excited to hear your story. So tell us

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Speaker 2: what you're here to talk to us about today.

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Speaker 5: Well, I wanted to talk to I know like you,

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Speaker 5: your topic is controlled groups, but also there could be

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Speaker 5: a cult of one. And I do truly believe I

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Speaker 5: was in a marriage and in a relationship that was fat,

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Speaker 5: and I was so almost brainwashed in a way. I

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Speaker 5: feel it's I'm four years removed, so I feel like

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Speaker 5: I'm still debrainwashing. I don't even know if the term

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Speaker 5: from that experience of that relationship to him, but looking back,

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Speaker 5: having some forgiveness for myself because I was successful. I

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Speaker 5: had a graduate degree, I had a career, I was

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Speaker 5: living on my own, I was financially independent and on

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Speaker 5: my own. I was educated. When I met him, I

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Speaker 5: was twenty three. And then it just gradually over the

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Speaker 5: sixteen years, whittled away at my self confidence, my self esteem,

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Speaker 5: even the work I had to leave a career. I mean,

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Speaker 5: it was just a lot of parts of myself that

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Speaker 5: I gave up, and I almost became a shell of

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Speaker 5: who that woman was before. It's like a prime I

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Speaker 5: feel like there's a before Stephanie, and then there's and now,

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Speaker 5: And I don't feel like the victim. I do feel

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Speaker 5: like I'm the victor here. I am thriving. I didn't

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Speaker 5: just survive the nightmare, but I'm thriving from it, so

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Speaker 5: that's amazing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so many different types of these guys. I guess,

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Speaker 2: was he trying to remove you from the things that

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Speaker 2: gave you independent and like your own sense of self?

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Speaker 2: Like how did that work?

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Speaker 5: Everything? And it was so insiduous. That's just it's like

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Speaker 5: it was always portrayed like the narrative, and he's really

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Speaker 5: good at the narrative. I have died. I am actually

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Speaker 5: my profession is in clinical psychology, even though I'm now

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Speaker 5: in a corporate environment working, but I have diagnosed him

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Speaker 5: as a borderline personality disorder with some narcissistic, deaferite narcissistic traits,

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Speaker 5: and the mental illness runs in his family, like he's

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Speaker 5: had family members commit suicide. He's had a very toxic

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Speaker 5: narcissistic mother, two sisters that have a lot of issues,

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Speaker 5: a brother who's completely a strange and now I understand why,

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Speaker 5: and he lives in another state. Left the family system,

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Speaker 5: which it's not a healthy family system. But what the

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Speaker 5: interesting part was is he had twisted it that my background,

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Speaker 5: my upbring I come from a very working class he's

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Speaker 5: upper middle class family, and I'd come from a very

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Speaker 5: working class, more humble family. But he would always twist

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Speaker 5: it as that was like a bad thing, like my

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Speaker 5: upbringing was bad and it's why I was who I was.

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Speaker 5: Like I couldn't manage money, I couldn't have a career

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Speaker 5: and raise two we have two daughters and raise a

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Speaker 5: family at the same time. I couldn't handle it. You know,

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Speaker 5: It's just it was always like I was crazy and

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Speaker 5: I literally you all, like I would have these moments

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Speaker 5: for him, and I don't know if you relate to this,

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Speaker 5: were deep down almost my intuition or inside I'm like,

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Speaker 5: I'm not the crazy, Like he would make it like

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Speaker 5: he would say these things and I would like, but yeah,

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Speaker 5: And I would intellectual like, oh is he right? Is

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Speaker 5: he right? But my body and my heart didn't believe it,

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Speaker 5: Like I was like, this is not yeah. And looking back,

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Speaker 5: during that marriage, I had a lot of digestive issues.

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Speaker 5: I had skin issues. I lost fifteen pounds, Like, looking

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Speaker 5: at photos of myself, I don't even recognize the woman

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Speaker 5: that I was in those photos. I was like a shell.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that so interesting how our body react to being

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Speaker 2: in toxic relationships? Like I definitely had that experience where

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Speaker 2: I kept having like recurring infections of a particular kind,

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Speaker 2: which kind like with when within a relationship where I

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Speaker 2: just was in a constant state of stress, Like I

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Speaker 2: literally noticed like I felt like my blood pressure would

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Speaker 2: raise when we were together and it would lower once

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Speaker 2: he would go.

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Speaker 5: I would have anxiety, panic attacks. I was having insomnia.

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Speaker 5: The sex, oh, don't even get me on the sexual relationship,

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Speaker 5: Like I didn't even have a desire, and it was

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Speaker 5: really weird some more that I would almost it was

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Speaker 5: like I would reach I didn't want him even touching me.

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Speaker 5: He would really become more possessive and controlling. And he

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Speaker 5: had a schedule. I afterwards found out on when he

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Speaker 5: thought we should have.

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Speaker 2: Oh really and that was schedule.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, wow organized me so organized.

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Speaker 5: And he is a computer programmer to so I was like,

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Speaker 5: oh my god, he's programming. He's good at programming. I

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Speaker 5: didn't know in the marriage what financial abuse was, but

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Speaker 5: looking back, I was highly, highly financially abused by this man.

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Speaker 5: Like I had no access to our money. My name

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Speaker 5: was not on any of our accounts. And this is

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Speaker 5: one thing that I'm really with women and divorces, like

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Speaker 5: and I know a few women, right now going through

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Speaker 5: it is like get yourself together in that sense, You've

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Speaker 5: got to take care of yourself as a woman because

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Speaker 5: we don't necessarily farewell when we leave a marriage. And

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Speaker 5: my marriage, I was married to someone who was very wealthy,

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Speaker 5: so I was leaving a very wealthy, you know, privileged situation.

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Speaker 4: So can you can.

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Speaker 2: You explain what financial abuse is because we actually really

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Speaker 2: haven't talked that much about it, and it's so important.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, financial abuse is basically so it's when someone kind

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Speaker 5: of to have that total control and possession, and this

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Speaker 5: is where I feel like the narcissism comes in with

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Speaker 5: him because they need to be fed, they need to

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Speaker 5: have a source, right, a source where they get to

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Speaker 5: and I was the perfect perfect person for that because

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Speaker 5: I am very empathic. I do have a good heart.

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Speaker 5: I do tend to be a little bit more optimistic

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Speaker 5: and trusting and see the good. Even now I'm more

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Speaker 5: discerning and I don't really trust a lot of people

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Speaker 5: anymore because I've learned the hard way. But back when

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Speaker 5: I was only twenty three and he was very attractive,

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Speaker 5: so I feel like that's what attracted him to me,

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Speaker 5: But inside him there was like really, I mean it

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Speaker 5: was really dark. It was really ugly. So the financial

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Speaker 5: abuse like taking me away from the city where I

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Speaker 5: built my network of professional colleagues and I was set

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Speaker 5: financially and like I said, I was on my own.

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Speaker 5: I had a career, and moving me out of that

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Speaker 5: to a place where it was not as easy for

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Speaker 5: me to rebuild what I had established.

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Speaker 2: Did he want you to start working altogether?

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Speaker 5: So that ended up happening. So what ended up happening

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Speaker 5: Once we came to this new location together and I

255
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Speaker 5: got pregnant with our first child, he was like, I

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Speaker 5: make enough money, and he would always compare it to

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Speaker 5: this is how much I make, and this is what

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Speaker 5: your income is, and it makes no sense for you

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Speaker 5: to work. So that's how it would start. Or childcare

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Speaker 5: is so expensive for our child, it makes no sense

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Speaker 5: for you. It's almost like you're canceling out what we

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Speaker 5: have to pay this nanny so that you can stay,

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Speaker 5: you know, in your profession. So that's how it would start.

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Speaker 5: And then I would kind of second guess myself like, oh,

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Speaker 5: like yeah, you know, maybe he has a point, or

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Speaker 5: he would even throw like you're making more money, it's

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Speaker 5: just going to put us in a higher tax bracket

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Speaker 5: that's going to hurt us overall, Yes, exactly. So those

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Speaker 5: kinds of things, and the fact that I always did

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Speaker 5: keep my own separate bank account and my own separate card.

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Speaker 5: I don't know why, but I did have that separate

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Speaker 5: from him, and I would basically get an allowance. So

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Speaker 5: as I started to go away from making my own

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Speaker 5: income and losing, you know, my identity as this woman

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Speaker 5: in her career, as a professional woman, and more of

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Speaker 5: into the mom and the homemaker role, I got an

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Speaker 5: allowance from him every month, and I didn't have my

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Speaker 5: name on any of our accounts so retirement. The first

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Speaker 5: house we bought together, he actually quit claimed my name

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Speaker 5: off of the house and I thought I was signing

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Speaker 5: papers to refinance with the mortgage on it. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 5: he tricked me. Yeah. And then the second house we

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Speaker 5: purchased together, I actually insisted on having a living trust.

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Speaker 5: Only for the reason not even this is where I

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Speaker 5: was so brainwashed. It wasn't even like, oh, he's going

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Speaker 5: to take care of me financially, I believe that for

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Speaker 5: that time being, but for my kids, like I wanted

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Speaker 5: to have something in place in this living trust to

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Speaker 5: protect them if something happened to the both of us, right,

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Speaker 5: And so that's the only way I got my name

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Speaker 5: on the second house. And the only reason I found

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Speaker 5: out is it was a two year divorce battle. It

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Speaker 5: was a nightmare. He was a nightmare. He had the

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Speaker 5: best lawyer, by the way, I guess money buys the best.

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Speaker 5: I found all this out because I ended up having

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Speaker 5: to pay him back for the down payment on that

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Speaker 5: old house because he was like, he was like, it's

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Speaker 5: separate property, even though we bought it together, but he

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Speaker 5: quit claimed it out of my name, and then I

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Speaker 5: ended up having.

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Speaker 2: To make who has lots of money? And oh my gosh, okay, am.

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Speaker 6: I reading this correctly?

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Speaker 1: That he quit his job and he was home a

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Speaker 1: lot and kind of or was he just working for me?

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Speaker 6: Was he working for me?

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Speaker 3: He was?

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Speaker 5: So what ended up happening with this? And this is

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Speaker 5: looking back to you, I'm like, they probably didn't want

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Speaker 5: him in the office because he's toxic, you know, And

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Speaker 5: looking back there like just stay home, don't worry about

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Speaker 5: coming in. And now I'm like, yeah, now I understand

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Speaker 5: why they don't want him around them. So yeah, so

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Speaker 5: it got to the point I think I want to

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Speaker 5: say in two thousand and eight. In two thousand and

315
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Speaker 5: eight is when I actually had my body, like I

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Speaker 5: was telling you guys, was like telling me, this is

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Speaker 5: not okay. And I was already six years into the

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Speaker 5: marriage with a five year old and that's when he

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Speaker 5: started working from home correlation. I ended up having like

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Speaker 5: a full on panic attack, ended up in the U

321
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Speaker 5: sale psych board for any value because he's like, you're

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Speaker 5: the one crazy, You're the one breaking down. But I

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Speaker 5: remember the psychologist at usale saying, you're not crazy, you're

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Speaker 5: having an episodic you're stress. What is going Like she

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Speaker 5: kept trying to like what's wrong? Because he presented himself.

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Speaker 5: They're great actors, right, like he for he was attractive,

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Speaker 5: and he's professional, and he's this wealthy man and so

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Speaker 5: everyone always saw him as, oh, he's a good husband

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Speaker 5: to her, he's a good father to their baby, and

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Speaker 5: that's how he presented himself in public. But it was

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Speaker 5: validation from her. I don't even remember her name, but

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Speaker 5: I'm like, thank you you Sale psychologist like, yeah, it's

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Speaker 5: not me. And that's when I started to kind of uh.

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Speaker 2: That was the moment when your relationship gets you to

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Speaker 2: that breaking point. Like, yeah, that I can see how

336
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Speaker 2: that would be the impetus for realizing you need to leave.

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Speaker 5: But I didn't leave. I ended up getting pregnant with

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Speaker 5: our second daughter, and I didn't file divorce papers with

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Speaker 5: this man until twenty nineteen, So I was there for

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Speaker 5: another almost ten years with this person.

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Speaker 2: Having children with people. I mean, I think that this

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Speaker 2: happens so much more than we realize when women in

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Speaker 2: particular or anyone are tied to their partner because of

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Speaker 2: children and because of financial just money, lack of dependence.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and he would use it against me. How are

346
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Speaker 5: you going to go out there and support yourself with

347
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Speaker 5: your hobb I was working part time, but he would

348
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:41,720
Speaker 5: call it my hobby job. How are you going to

349
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,679
Speaker 5: support yourself with your So it was always the belitting

350
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Speaker 5: of any type of creativity or any type of And

351
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Speaker 5: the truth is is that I'm way more intelligent than

352
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Speaker 5: this man. I really am, Like I four years down

353
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Speaker 5: the line, I have my finances together, I have my

354
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Speaker 5: I am Oh, I'm independent, don't I don't take speusal

355
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Speaker 5: support from him at all. I'm good. But he always

356
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Speaker 5: made me to believe like I couldn't do that. So, yeah,

357
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Speaker 5: there was that fear. He would use fear and intimidation

358
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Speaker 5: to keep me, to keep me in that relationship.

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Speaker 6: What happened in twenty nineteen?

360
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Speaker 5: What was the twenty nineteen Okay, so I want to

361
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 5: say January of twenty nineteen. I found out he was

362
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Speaker 5: tracking my phone, and I got to a point where

363
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Speaker 5: I was a little nervous, like I would get scared

364
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,760
Speaker 5: about telling him, and I literally this is it was

365
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 5: really looking back petty, Like I would meet my girlfriend

366
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Speaker 5: for lunch, but I would be like, oh, I have

367
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,680
Speaker 5: a client that I'm meeting with. I'm not going to

368
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,880
Speaker 5: be home till this end the time. Because he would

369
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,800
Speaker 5: always get jealous if I went to have fun without him, right,

370
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Speaker 5: So that's another thing, like he'd be working and if

371
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Speaker 5: I want to have lunch with my girlfriend for two

372
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Speaker 5: hours without him, oh, you're off having a good time

373
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Speaker 5: that you must have a nice life. Like I would

374
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Speaker 5: get that when I got home, So to avoid it,

375
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 5: I'd just be like, oh, I'm off, I'm going to

376
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 5: be at work for this time. But he tracked my

377
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,399
Speaker 5: phone and it got out later on the night, and

378
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,119
Speaker 5: I literally the guy, like I thought, I didn't call

379
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:17,640
Speaker 5: the police, and I should have been the only reason

380
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,320
Speaker 5: I didn't is I didn't want to scare my kids.

381
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Speaker 5: But he was like choking me. He threw me up

382
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Speaker 5: against the wall because he was like you you weren't

383
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 5: at your work, you were like flat and he said

384
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Speaker 5: the location where I was, and that was it. I

385
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,679
Speaker 5: was done. I'm like the fact that not only was

386
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,480
Speaker 5: I dealing with all of the verbal and you know,

387
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 5: emotional abuse from this guy, which I think is worse,

388
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 5: by the way, not that I'm saying that physical abuse

389
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:46,680
Speaker 5: is better, but you can't see the scars. The scars

390
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,959
Speaker 5: are inside. Yes, But after that, I was just like,

391
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,399
Speaker 5: there's no way that I am going to raise my

392
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Speaker 5: two daughters in this situation.

393
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Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, amazing. I mean, I'm so sorry that that happened,

394
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Speaker 2: but it is amazing that you were able to get

395
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Speaker 2: yourself out of that. Did you find that you were

396
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 2: walking on eggshells like constantly word.

397
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Speaker 5: That all three of us were myself and my two daughters. Yeah,

398
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:17,160
Speaker 5: there was. There was this level of tension. And I'm

399
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,880
Speaker 5: a very like I love. I come from a big

400
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 5: Mexican family and I love and it's even like not

401
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 5: even blood family, like we have friends at our family

402
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,440
Speaker 5: and we always our houses were always open, we always hosted,

403
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,119
Speaker 5: We always loved people coming over, and it got to

404
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 5: the point where nobody was coming over to our house anymore.

405
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 5: Like it just wasn't it wasn't pleasant, you know. Yeah,

406
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,919
Speaker 5: it wasn't like a fun environment, and so yeah, it

407
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,879
Speaker 5: really it was that tension and isolation and it wasn't

408
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 5: it wasn't healthy. I know, divorce is hard for children,

409
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 5: and that was heartbreaking for me that they went through it,

410
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 5: But ultimately, I do believe it was the best thing

411
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 5: for them.

412
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Speaker 2: I think that people would be surprised how resilient children are,

413
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 2: speaking as a child of divorce who was so grateful

414
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 2: that my parents got divorced because they were so incredibly

415
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 2: they were just so much less happy together and we

416
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 2: were all able to flourish much better when they were apart.

417
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, like children really are resilient, and like if

418
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 2: you are stuck in a toxic situation, the kids can

419
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 2: see that, they can hear that, that's the example that

420
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:25,399
Speaker 2: they're seeing.

421
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 5: I'm so happy you said, and I'm happy that you

422
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 5: felt that way too, because they did come out both.

423
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Speaker 5: I have a nineteen year old and a fourteen year

424
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 5: old and it came out that they were like, we

425
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 5: felt it, mom, we knew how unhappy you both were

426
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 5: and the flourishing Yes, I did see that the last

427
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,479
Speaker 5: four years, it's been really good. It's been really healthy.

428
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Speaker 2: That's amazing. Yeah, I really I was with someone who

429
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 2: was very controlling it. But it got to the point

430
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:54,920
Speaker 2: where I was like, not, I have a lot of

431
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 2: male friends, and I wasn't hanging out with my male

432
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 2: friends because I knew it would upset him. I made

433
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 2: sure to be like I'm with my girlfriends or I'm

434
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: with my gay friend, you know, and like every little

435
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 2: thing I did, I'd be worried, like is this gonna

436
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 2: upset him? Is this gonnaupset him? Is this gonna set

437
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 2: him off? Like that is just such a horrible feeling.

438
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 2: And and to what you were talking about earlier also

439
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 2: about feeling like you're the crazy one. It really anytime

440
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 2: I would be like I think, what you're the way

441
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 2: you're behaving to me right now, or the fact that

442
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 2: you're yelling at me or like being shutting me out,

443
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 2: like if this feels emotionally abusive, he would start to

444
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 2: then say that emotionally abusive.

445
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,360
Speaker 1: Yes, funny you should say that because that's emotionally abusive.

446
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

447
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 5: But and my my I call him my husband. My

448
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 5: husband was really good at gas fighting, and like I said, spinning,

449
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 5: he still tries to spin a narrative. I'm always having

450
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 5: to undo and having to outwit and be a step

451
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 5: ahead of this person because I co parent with one

452
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 5: one daughter still the other one luckily is out on

453
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 5: her own and she's thriving and doing well, and that

454
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 5: makes me feel really good and really happy. But I

455
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 5: do still have one that I do But that is

456
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 5: actually when I filed the divorce in twenty nineteen, he

457
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 5: in his mind he had it said that I was

458
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 5: sleeping with another man and that's why I was leaving him,

459
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,640
Speaker 5: and he was determined to catch me in that by

460
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 5: breaking into my house, by following me, so I'd be

461
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 5: at the grocery store or getting gas and he would

462
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 5: be right there. And it got to the point, yeah,

463
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 5: I was really scared. I had all the locks changed

464
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 5: to my home, an alarm system placed, I got a dog.

465
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 5: I was sleeping with a hunting knife near my bed

466
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 5: because I wasn't sure if he was going to break

467
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 5: in again. I almost filed a restraining order, and the

468
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 5: police were like, well you don't have This is where

469
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 5: the system is so weird when it comes to these situations. Well,

470
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 5: you've never called on him, there's no report on him.

471
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 5: We can't do anything about it. So I basically was

472
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 5: like vigilant for all of twenty nineteen because I just

473
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 5: was like, I don't know what this guy is capable.

474
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 2: Of, right, that's so scary. The system really does not

475
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 2: take care of victims of stocking at all.

476
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 5: It doesn't take care of victims of stocking. And also

477
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 5: the family court system does not take care of children

478
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 5: from individuals similar to him, you know, very very narcissistic, unhealthy,

479
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 5: like they have parenting rights. It's just, oh, it makes me,

480
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 5: it makes me sad and angry. Yeah, I think about those.

481
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 6: What have you found to be the most helpful thing

482
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 6: on moving forward?

483
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 5: Reallyan forward? Educating myself, realizing that I'm not a mess

484
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 5: financially so literally putting myself through a financial class, an

485
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 5: investment class, getting my finances in order, feeling really confident

486
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 5: and empowered in that sense because he really took that

487
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 5: power away from me, and knowing and trusting myself that

488
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 5: I do have me, I'm my own inner resource. I

489
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 5: can take care of myself. A shit, I'm sorry, I hope.

490
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 2: I say.

491
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 5: A ship ton of therapy when it's an amazing therapist

492
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 5: who also does E M d R. And I did

493
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 5: that for probably two years of em DR therapy.

494
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've both done that. I love like it wasn't

495
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 2: the whole like puzzle. There were more pieces to my

496
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 2: healing puzzle, but it was an important one for sure

497
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 2: because there were just these men. I would just get

498
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 2: stuck on these like difficult memories that felt like it

499
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 2: really connected with my sense of self and who I

500
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: was and that was really damaged. So that's awesome that you.

501
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 5: Did moving my body. I have been training jiu jitsu

502
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 5: for almost a year and a half. I went to

503
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 5: jiu jitsu for the self defense because I was, like

504
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 5: I said that, I'm still vigilant. I still there's I

505
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 5: don't feel comfortable and I don't really have any outside

506
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 5: of communication on email and text. I don't I don't

507
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 5: see him, I don't chat with him. He's not he's

508
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 5: not my friend.

509
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, good, No, those boundaries are so important. Also, my

510
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: boyfriend does jiu jitsu, uh and now I think jujits

511
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 2: is really cool. So maybe you guys go to the

512
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: same chip. I don't know, that's fine, that'd be weird awesome. Well, like, yeah,

513
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 2: is there anything If someone who's listening is maybe in

514
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 2: a relationship that they're struggling to get out of or

515
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: they're feeling like is unhealthy, do you have any words

516
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: of advice for them?

517
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 5: I would just tell them to trust that where they're

518
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 5: at is not always going to be where they're going

519
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 5: to be, that taking the first step, no matter how

520
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 5: scared it might feel. That fear sometimes is so intense

521
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 5: and real, but just doing it, whether it's reaching out,

522
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 5: like for me, I had to make a plan with

523
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 5: a therapist actually, like this is how I'm going to

524
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 5: get him out of my house, this is what I'm

525
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 5: going to say, these are the things I'm wanting to do.

526
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 5: So someone that you trust, maybe that cannot also be

527
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 5: a support to you as you make a plan to

528
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 5: get yourself out and just patience and grace and kindness

529
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 5: for wherever you're at, that there's always a possibility, there's

530
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 5: always a way out of whatever it is. You're never stuck.

531
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I like people who I have seen people

532
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 2: who go back to toxic relationships and feel so much

533
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 2: shame about going back that they feel like that must

534
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: mean they're never going to get out.

535
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 5: That's the one thing I want to address too. It's

536
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 5: like the shame. I had a lot of the shame too.

537
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 5: You didn't. I did nothing wrong. They are doing nothing wrong.

538
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 5: And in a sense, like the mental illness that he has,

539
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 5: like he's a behavioral pattern. He doesn't know how to

540
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 5: relate or to be with another human. It's just that's

541
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 5: how he's learned. That's what he was conditioned to learn.

542
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 5: But it's not that you're bad because you're in a

543
00:27:58,040 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 5: situation like.

544
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 2: That, right, I mean, it's what's the average number, It's

545
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 2: like seven nine times or something. It takes I can't

546
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 2: remember the number, but it takes like seven tries or

547
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: nine tries. I'm getting the number one. But to leave

548
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 2: an abusive relationship, it is very It's because that cycle

549
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 2: is so difficult to extricate yourself from. It's and everyone

550
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 2: struggles with it. It's like not, you know, well, it's

551
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 2: a cult. Yeah, it's a tiny cult.

552
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 5: It is a cult. And that's another thing too, Like

553
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 5: your podcast, I've I've read all kinds of you know,

554
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 5: just knowledge knowledge is power, educate, research yourself, know that

555
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,719
Speaker 5: you do have like right, like there's other there's resources

556
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 5: for you. Yeah alone, You're not alone, so true.

557
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 2: Thank you, Stephanie, Thank you for sharing with us. Is

558
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 2: there anything else you'd like to share?

559
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 5: Just to stay financially independent from any man, don't ever

560
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 5: ever let them, don't ever. And I know it's so hard,

561
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 5: but and I don't want to be judgmental, but just

562
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,959
Speaker 5: keep yourself your own inner self, resource self, you know,

563
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 5: especially as women or person, take care of yourself. Don't ever, Yeah,

564
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 5: don't ever let yourself be too try. I hate to

565
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 5: say that, but don't let yourself be too trusting. Don't believe.

566
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 5: Don't believe everything someone tells you. Their behaviors are going

567
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 5: to show you who they are. Can I tell that,

568
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 5: don't believe what people tell you.

569
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: Words are not that important. What's important is behavior and

570
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: actions and patterns. Yeah.

571
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 5: And I want to thank you both for doing what

572
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 5: you're doing because it is such a good service to

573
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 5: so many people out there who were in my situation,

574
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 5: you know, four years ago.

575
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: Thank you You're amazing.

576
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 2: I appreciate your reaching out. And yeah, thank you so

577
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: much for sharing your story.

578
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 5: Thank you have a good rest to your day.

579
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 6: You two.

580
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 2: Welcome, Annie, thank you so much for coming on.

581
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 4: Yes, my pleasure.

582
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 2: So fellow former Mormon here. Hello, you might be other

583
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: than my mom. We were just talking about this, but

584
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: you might be our first former just like you know,

585
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: mainstream Mormon that we've had on, which is which is exciting.

586
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 2: So we have lots to talk about. So you grew

587
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: up in Utah. Where in Utah?

588
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 4: Yeah? Great questions. So I was mostly Logan, just Cash

589
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 4: valleyed northern Utah and then Davis County Bountiful, Utah, which

590
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 4: is just north of Salt Lake City, so fifteen minutes

591
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 4: away from Salt Lake City.

592
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: Gotcha, gotcha? So you were born and raised debout Mormon.

593
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 2: Tell us about your childhood.

594
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, so both of my parents were raised in it

595
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 4: as well born and raised in it. And so they say, like,

596
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 4: you're born into the Covenant, right, So if your parents

597
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 4: were so, my grandparents were also members, and so that

598
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 4: means that you're automatically sealed to them because they've been

599
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 4: married in the temple. So so born in the Covenant

600
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 4: both of my parents, and then I would say that

601
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 4: they were true blue Mormons or the Exmo community calls

602
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 4: them TBMs true Blue Mormons, and so incredibly devout. They

603
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 4: follow every the little little rule and every every big one.

604
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 4: They talk about church, they go, they live the lifestyle.

605
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 4: So that's how I grew up going to weekly church,

606
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 4: church meetings. There was a youth group meeting every week.

607
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 4: We went to you know, Christmas parties and block parties,

608
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 4: and we read scriptures every night. We fasted it once

609
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 4: a once a month. Just that was my whole That

610
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 4: was my whole life. That was my from the minute

611
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 4: that I got up in the morning morning to when

612
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 4: I went to bed at night. That was my whole life.

613
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 4: And it influenced everything that I did. And so and

614
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 4: that's just that's just the way it was. And everybody

615
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 4: that I knew was like that mostly every what I do.

616
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: Can I ask you the questions really quickly about comminism?

617
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: So how I was raised, If your parents were in it,

618
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: or your grandparents or whatever, and then you're also raised

619
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: in it. If you leave, you're a certain sort of evil,

620
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: like you're is that the same you're nodding, yeah, yeah, yeah,

621
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: it's pretty.

622
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I think it's family dependent to

623
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: an area dependent because like, my family hasn't been a

624
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: problem really wise, and I don't think it's as extreme

625
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 2: overall as Jeovah's witnesses, but there are many individual stories

626
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: and sorry continue.

627
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that's a very very good point. Yeah, there's

628
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 4: I say, some family shun not that's not a doctrine

629
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 4: though it's not ro I see so scientology or the

630
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 4: Jehovah's Witnesses, they usually don't cut off communication. So I'd

631
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 4: say that's that would be the exception and not the rule,

632
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 4: because they want you to come back right exactly exactly.

633
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 4: But so, and growing up in the Mormon Church, I

634
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,479
Speaker 4: so and I was, like I said, I was very devout,

635
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 4: and but I always felt like I never fit in

636
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 4: and I could never place a reason why. I just

637
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 4: felt different. And I didn't talk about that with anybody.

638
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 4: I didn't mention it even out loud to myself. But

639
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 4: I knew I might have my first crush on a

640
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 4: girl when I was in fifth grade and so, but

641
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 4: I that was not even that was not even something

642
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 4: in my mind. Didn't know what a gay person was

643
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 4: until I was about fourteen. So just a whole different

644
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 4: world that I had no idea about. And that that

645
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 4: was normal to feel those feelings, right, yeah, but so

646
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 4: I did. I was in I did everything. So I

647
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 4: was like a leader for like the youth groups. I

648
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 4: went to seminary for four years and seminary, graduate from seminary,

649
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 4: and you in Utah you can have you CA. I

650
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 4: can go to seminary during school.

651
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 2: We did that.

652
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 4: So it's an actual It's an actual class where you

653
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 4: get grades and you have road tests and you memorize scriptures.

654
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 4: And I was the know it all in in seminary.

655
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 4: I need the answer to every question I could expound,

656
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 4: got my funnel for it. That's and so I just

657
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 4: live in my normal Molly Mormon life. As we say,

658
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 4: Molly Mormon is the very very devout right Peter Priestoo

659
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 4: is the male.

660
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,439
Speaker 2: I forgot about that term.

661
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 4: There's no non binary term. Sorry, right, But I decided

662
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 4: I wanted to go to BUYU made it in and

663
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 4: I was really excited to either in a culture where

664
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 4: I felt comfortable. You were nineteen an hourly nineteen.

665
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: You were nineteen when you went to BYU correct eighteen eighteen.

666
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 2: And for anyone who doesn't who doesn't know the culture

667
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 2: of BYU, BYU is like a Mormon School, they have

668
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,399
Speaker 2: like moral rules. I mean, I don't know what, if

669
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 2: anything has changed since I was living in Utah, but

670
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 2: it was like if you have premarital sex, you can't

671
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 2: be there. There's no drinking, there's like all you have

672
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 2: to adhere to all the church's rules. It's not a

673
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 2: secular It.

674
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 6: Says there's need to be endorsements. What's an endorsement?

675
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,439
Speaker 4: Yes, so you have to go to your So non

676
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 4: members can go to BUYU.

677
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: Why very interesting choice, but you have to go.

678
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 4: So even if you're not a member, you have to

679
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 4: go to your local bishop or the branch leader. The branch.

680
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 4: A branch is a smaller version of a word, which

681
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 4: is just a your local congregation. So you have to

682
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 4: go to the local leader of the congregation and say hey,

683
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 4: and they interview you and see if you are living

684
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 4: a life that is clean enough for you to go

685
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 4: in the way you And so if you don't get

686
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 4: that endorsement, then you can't go, and that has to

687
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 4: be renewed every single year.

688
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: So you have to confess and be like, no, I

689
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 2: ain't been fucking.

690
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 6: And had you and had you not been? Like did

691
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 6: you lie on any of it? Or were you just

692
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 6: you were Molly Mormon. You were like, check check your

693
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 6: I'm I'm killing on the straight and air.

694
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 4: Can we talk about my sexual fantasies about women? Yeah,

695
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 4: well myself, yeah, yeah, by everything else. Yeah. I didn't

696
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 4: didn't drink, didn't do didn't have sex, didn't masturbate, didn't

697
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,919
Speaker 4: do any of my I know, right right.

698
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 2: I tried not to masturbate, but it was, uh, you guys,

699
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 2: let's just say I felt guilty a lot.

700
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 6: See, I didn't have any of those rules. Like people

701
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 6: would you, like, can you come over after school? They're like, no,

702
00:36:58,400 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 6: I have to go home.

703
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 4: Are you? Oh my god.

704
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 2: I'd read like one kissing page in a like Sweet

705
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 2: Valley High book and be like, oh my.

706
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: God, yeah I didn't have the sex stuff. You guys

707
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 1: really got hammered with this.

708
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 4: You guys a chiller teenager than we were then.

709
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It sounds so much repression.

710
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, sorry continue.

711
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 4: Oh no, you're great. So went t b y U

712
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 4: and doing great doom. I think you have to you

713
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 4: have to take specific religious classes in order to graduate,

714
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 4: even if you're not a member. So so now I

715
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 4: was fine with that. I was like cool, Like we're

716
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 4: doing this thing and you're not allowed to drink, You're

717
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 4: not allowed to take any type of you know, illegal

718
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:52,919
Speaker 4: substances or legal substances for pet for that point. Yeah,

719
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 4: no premarital sex. No, the boys have to be out

720
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 4: of your apartment by I forget midnight.

721
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 6: You're like, no problem, but my girlfriend's stay all.

722
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 4: Night, right, she just here a problem? Yeah, but right,

723
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I wish no. But but yeah, so

724
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 4: I'm doing great, my best life. And then two times

725
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 4: a year Mormons have General Conference, and so that's where

726
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 4: the leaders of the church talk to you and tell

727
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 4: you things that the church as a whole needs to

728
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,479
Speaker 4: improve on. Or sometimes it's really kind and like God

729
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 4: loves you. Another time that's like you guys sucking me

730
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 4: to kind of buckle up. And so it was exciting.

731
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 4: So this was October of twenty twelve. They made the

732
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 4: announcement that the mission changed, the mission age had changed.

733
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 4: So this is exciting for me because girl missionaries had

734
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 4: to you had to wait till you were twenty one

735
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 4: to go on a mission, and boys had to wait

736
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 4: till they were nineteen. So they changed this girl cell

737
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 4: boys were at eighteen girls at nineteen. I had just

738
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 4: turned nineteen, and so I felt this huge call inside myself, like,

739
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 4: oh my God, like, this is my time because as

740
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 4: women like I talked about it with lots of my

741
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 4: friends who are the same Inche like, I would go

742
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 4: on a mission if they didn't make us way because

743
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 4: by that time, I expect how to be married and

744
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 4: have babies, right and so because that's the Mormon expectation

745
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 4: if you were older than twenty one year an old maid, Yeah, okay.

746
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 4: So I was super excited, like I like, this is me.

747
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 4: I've got to go. And luckily my parents dissuaded me,

748
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 4: and they're like, you need to finish this year at

749
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 4: BYU first, this whole school year. So I do that.

750
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 4: But in the meantime, I'm filling out all my paperwork.

751
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 4: You have to apply to go on a mission, so

752
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 4: you have to be medically checked out, you have to

753
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 4: go to the dentist, you have to get immunisations, you

754
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 4: have to be make sure you're like meant health isn't

755
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 4: a good spot. You have to fill all this paperwork

756
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 4: about yourself. You have really intense and I was taken

757
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 4: her back at the intensity of the of the interviews

758
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 4: that they had the worthiness interviews, and so my whole

759
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 4: wife had been like, do you believe in Jesus Smith? Yes?

760
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 4: Do you believe in the Book of Mormon? Yes? Do

761
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 4: you love God? Yes? So he's following the rules. Yes,

762
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 4: these are very, very detailed. Have you ever masturbated? And

763
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 4: there's this like fifty six year old guy who's asking

764
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 4: me these detailed questions. Have you ever masturbated? Have you

765
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 4: ever watched porn? Have you ever watched a girl porn?

766
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 4: Have you ever kissed a woman? Have you ever touched

767
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 4: a woman? Like all of these things where I was.

768
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 2: Like alone, need to know this alone in a room

769
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 2: with a man?

770
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 4: Right?

771
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, inappropriate.

772
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 4: I know that they did change the policy that they're

773
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 4: allowing allowing parents to be in the room with their

774
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 4: underage child as they're talking to a grown man about

775
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 4: their sexual Oh.

776
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 6: I'm sure that's even better. Your parents can hear it.

777
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 6: You've masturbated?

778
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 4: Oh my one rite.

779
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 6: No shame whatsoever? Wait, you said you got shots.

780
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: Were you thinking like, my mission is going to be

781
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: in another country or something like that?

782
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 4: Oh?

783
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 6: Okay, So where was the dream? Where were you like

784
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 6: fantasizing about.

785
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 4: My family's from Italy, so I'm trying really hard to

786
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 4: keep my hand just so that was the dream. I

787
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 4: was like, oh my gosh, if I could go to Italy,

788
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 4: to Europe anywhere with the dream. And I was the

789
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 4: first kid in my family to go on a mission.

790
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 4: I had two older sisters and so I'm the middle

791
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 4: middle of five, and so I was like, oh my gosh,

792
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 4: like this is this is gonna be so so great.

793
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 4: So I'm thinking, yeah, I'm thinking I'm going for it.

794
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 4: And so finally, like the day rolls around again my

795
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 4: mission Colin. I'm reading it and it says Saint Louis, Missouri.

796
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 4: That is so mean, and in my heart, I'm like,

797
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 4: oh God, like I just feel like I like myself.

798
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 4: So I was like great, because like the Mormon idea

799
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 4: in the culture is that if you don't go foreign,

800
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 4: you're not good enough.

801
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 2: Oh Mormon goodness, is that true. I didn't realize that.

802
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: So they you feel like you're being punished, like they

803
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: send the really rigorous ones off to Europe and then

804
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,919
Speaker 1: Saint Louis because I'm imagining that there's already some save

805
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,919
Speaker 1: people in Saint Louis, so you're not doing as big

806
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: of work as somebody going to the middle of nowhere?

807
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 4: Got it?

808
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, my mom was sent to I think it

809
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 2: was California. It was like some California town. But then

810
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: she broke records for how many people stick for it?

811
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 6: Oh my goodness.

812
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 4: Anyway, yeah, yeah, no, and you can't. I mean, utah.

813
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 4: It has helped some of the highest baptizing and the

814
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 4: best missionaries numbers in the world. So, but nobody really

815
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 4: talks about that. Yeah. So, like I felt kind of like, shit,

816
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 4: like am I of course I didn't say shit frick

817
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 4: Oh my heck, I'm a bad Like. I was like,

818
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 4: what did I do?

819
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 5: They were like yeah, yeah, so, but.

820
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 4: Outwardly I'm trying to be like, oh, like, I'll go

821
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 4: wherever I love.

822
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 6: Saint Louis. You have to pay to do this? Yeah,

823
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 6: I'm sorry? What are what are you talking about? How much?

824
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 4: Yep? So it's about they've changed it recently and so

825
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 4: I believe it's around three hundred and fifty dollars.

826
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 6: So you paid to go a month be a uh servant?

827
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah yeah, So okay, are you are you okay?

828
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 4: If I like throw some math that you real fast,

829
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 4: I'm gonna register.

830
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 2: But yeah, we'll get composed.

831
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 4: But so this is math that I've done personally, and

832
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 4: so while I am an educator, I still don't do

833
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 4: math very well. So here we go. So some of

834
00:43:55,719 --> 00:44:01,240
Speaker 4: the math is let's see, so three hundred, three hundred

835
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 4: and fifty ish bucks a month I've rounded. But so

836
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 4: that's nine thousand dollars for a girl because she goes

837
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 4: for eighteen months. Right, for boys, that's gonna be twelve

838
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 4: thousand dollars. And that's not including like things that you

839
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 4: could buy for yourself. So or like the suitcases that

840
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 4: I like, you have to have. You're allowed two suitcases.

841
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 4: You have everything in those two suitcases, and that's it.

842
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 4: So you're literally it's almost like you're living like a

843
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 4: non or a month's experience where you're living kind of

844
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 4: in poverty. And then they would give us a monthly

845
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 4: stipend out of that three hundred bucks. So like, don't

846
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 4: get me wrong, they are putting a huge part of

847
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 4: the bill. So on my mission, I didn't have to

848
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 4: pay for like my apartment, the car that we used.

849
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 4: Because you're assigned to an area and then it would switch,

850
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 4: you could be transferred. You had the possibility of being

851
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 4: transferred every six weeks, and so you could you would

852
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 4: be just and it was mostly like the towns that

853
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 4: you would be assigned to. So like my first place,

854
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 4: I was assigned to Lichfield, Illinois, tiny, tiny little town

855
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 4: about twenty minutes from Saint Louis. And so our surrounding

856
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 4: area was maybe that we covered with maybe fifty sixty

857
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 4: square miles. So we had a car, you had an apartment.

858
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 4: I didn't have to pay for that for utilities, for

859
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 4: car insurance or gas. They give you a monthly stipend

860
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 4: of about one hundred and thirty bucks. You guys get

861
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 4: one hundred and twenty bucks because girls need tampons, so feah,

862
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 4: which thoughtful, thoughtful, But that's your cool. That's your whole month.

863
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 4: That is your month. Like you're living at your food.

864
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 4: That's like you know you're that's not.

865
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 2: Enough feed you often, right, you have dinner with your

866
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:40,879
Speaker 2: families from church.

867
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, so they'll sign up. You pass around a sign

868
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 4: up sheet, but you're really at the mercy you've kind

869
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 4: of budgeted out that you're only going to be only

870
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 4: having to provide yourself two meals every day and so

871
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 4: U but if members don't sign up for you to

872
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 4: feed you. No, it's have to happen. So mean, you're

873
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 4: kind of they're add a lot. Yeah.

874
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 6: Would you go hungry sometimes?

875
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,240
Speaker 4: Yeah? Wow, there was. There was one particular area where

876
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 4: we went hungry for about like two weeks. So we'd

877
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 4: like go to bed, go to bed hungry. And it

878
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 4: was not it was not a fun it was not

879
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 4: a fun time. And I didn't feel like you could

880
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 4: have a card from home. They didn't discourage that. But like,

881
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 4: my family wasn't having the best financial time and I

882
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 4: had two somethings at home, so I wasn't about sorry.

883
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 4: I wasn't about to ask them. Of course, hey, I

884
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 4: you know so, And I wanted to be strong and

885
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 4: I wanted to be a good missionary. I wanted to

886
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 4: not complain because I tell you, definitely you need to

887
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 4: be positive when you write home. So but so, yeah,

888
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 4: one hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty dollars a month,

889
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 4: and that's you're living under the poverty wage. That's under

890
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 4: the poverty for those stats, that's under the poverty line

891
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 4: in the United States. And so luckily we would volunteer

892
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 4: a lot at Food Bay to the different areas that

893
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 4: I work and these lovely cute little church ladies that

894
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 4: were not from our church would say, we know that

895
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 4: you guys are struggling, that you don't get a lot

896
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,760
Speaker 4: of money. Tell us what like, you can have whatever

897
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 4: you want, just let us know that you're taking it.

898
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 4: And so they would literally, I was said by these

899
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 4: little old church ladies that just knew we were trying

900
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 4: to do the same thing as them, which and they

901
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 4: really I mean they really like saved saved my sanity, yeah,

902
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 4: and a lot of places. So but so getting back

903
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 4: to the numbers for you, So you're working ninety hours

904
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 4: a week, that's the standard and so and that's so

905
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 4: you wake up at seven, you don't stop working until

906
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 4: nine and then so that's about seven thousand hours of

907
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,479
Speaker 4: work that you've done in about eighteen months that I did.

908
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 4: So right now in Utah, the minimum wage is kind

909
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 4: of getting out there. So fourteen fifteen dollars an hour,

910
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 4: I would have made one hundred thousand dollars.

911
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 5: Wow. Wow.

912
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 4: And so but my parents pay nine thousand dollars. What

913
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 4: a place they need one hundred and thirty five thousand,

914
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 4: and so the just the they're taking advantage of young people

915
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 4: who can work their hardest. My head with him a pillow,

916
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 4: I'd be out, My alarm would be going off.

917
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to say that, like, senior missions I

918
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 2: think are totally fine. My dad and his wife chose

919
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 2: to go on a senior mission. There's no cultural pressure

920
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 2: to do that, you know, and they volunteer because they're

921
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: interested in I'm healthy. And you can say, well, you

922
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: still choose, but you don't choose.

923
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: You don't know what you're choosing right when you're younger.

924
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think there's a lot more pressure. Well,

925
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 2: there is a lot more pressure as a young person,

926
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 2: I would say, especially as a young man, to be honest,

927
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,359
Speaker 2: typically to go and do this thing that you think

928
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 2: is the right thing to do. I don't think there's

929
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 2: anything wrong with choosing to volunteer, but like when you

930
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 2: feel like it's something that you have to do and

931
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: it's not something that you're choosing, that's an entirely different dynamic.

932
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: What is the what is the point of it? Like,

933
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: what are you guys trying to do converting people? But

934
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 1: I'm seeing that there's the missionary Training Center and you

935
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: had you did hard sell tactics, which is like, yeah,

936
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: you're trying to find people who are more vulnerable, single,

937
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: older widows, weaponized family relationships.

938
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 6: Like you are you are salesman? Salesmen, Yeah, yeah, salespeople.

939
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 4: They would tell us that we were the best, that

940
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 4: we were the best advertisement for our church, so that

941
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 4: the missionaries were which is interesting. The boys are started.

942
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 4: Just going back to tiny bit, the boys are told

943
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 4: that they don't have a choice to go on a mission,

944
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 4: but it is a part that is their priested duty

945
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 4: to go on a mission. And personally, this is just

946
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 4: what I personally think because girls are it's suggested that

947
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 4: you go. If you can go, it's highly encouraged. But

948
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 4: I think so that age is the age where cult

949
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 4: leaders try. That's the age that they target is eighteen

950
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 4: to twenty four ish right in there, and so you're

951
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 4: you're trying to form your new ideas about life and yourself.

952
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 4: You're kind of you've started a new phase, and so

953
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 4: they're trying to nab you at that crucial stage in

954
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 4: your life. And I think for the men, specifically for

955
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 4: the boys, the again just my personal opinion, they want

956
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 4: to keep the guys in the church because guys the

957
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 4: preestige holders. That's how they measure growth in the church.

958
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 4: So if you have so many preseage holders in an area,

959
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 4: you can make a branch. If you get a few more,

960
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 4: you can make a ward. If you get a couple

961
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 4: of wards, you can make a steak. You have so

962
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 4: many steaks, you can build a temple. And so that

963
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 4: brings in revenue for them. The more members they have,

964
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 4: the more tithing they're going to get, because going to

965
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 4: the temple means you have to get you have to

966
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 4: go to the temple to be in order to make

967
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 4: the covenance with God to be able to enter the

968
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:08,760
Speaker 4: highest level of heaven.

969
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, and you got you got codes to heaven? Yeah,

970
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 6: what does that mean?

971
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 5: Wait?

972
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 4: I want it.

973
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 2: I don't want to make it a quick comment. If they

974
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,919
Speaker 2: would just change their policy and have women also able

975
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 2: to hold the priesthood, they could make more money if

976
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 2: they just you know what I'm saying, it would be

977
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 2: in their financial interest.

978
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 6: Women can't hold the priesthood.

979
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 2: Lolah, don't read my goodness or non binary people.

980
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 4: We have the babies and we make the food. That's

981
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 4: what we do.

982
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 5: That's all we're good for.

983
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 6: What are what are the cheek codes to heaven?

984
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so before I went on my mission. You

985
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 4: have to be in dowbt. Okay, you only get in

986
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 4: doubt if you're going on a mission or you're going

987
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 4: to get married. And that's where the Magic Woman underwhere

988
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 4: it comes into play.

989
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god, what you've heard of, right, the temple garments?

990
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, couple of garments. Yeah. So you go and

991
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 4: it's very hush hush beforehand. Everybody knows that you get

992
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 4: in doubt, but nobody tells you what's going to happen,

993
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 4: what you're going to promise. It's so ambiguous. There's a

994
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,800
Speaker 4: lot of alre and mystery. And this is a sacred

995
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 4: to dress that has been passed down since the time

996
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 4: of Moses. No Joseph Smith plagiarized it from the Freemasons,

997
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 4: so unbelievable. Yeah, but so so you get in there

998
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 4: and there's a part where all the men and women

999
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 4: are together, and and that for the main endowment part.

1000
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 4: And the men are sitting on the one side, the

1001
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 4: women are sitting on the other side. And you might

1002
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 4: recognize that if you've seen Under the Banner of Heaven.

1003
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 4: They show a very very they show a scene that

1004
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 4: is very accurate of the endowment session. And so there's

1005
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 4: a voice that comes on overhead that says, today you

1006
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 4: are going to receive your endowment. Of course it's a

1007
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 4: man's voice. You are going to receive her in talent,

1008
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 4: and these blessings are special. God is not to be mocked.

1009
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 4: If you don't want to be here and make these covenants,

1010
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 4: raise your hand and you can leave.

1011
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 2: So this is before left.

1012
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: And and it was like very funny, that would be

1013
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,879
Speaker 1: fun amazing.

1014
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, skip down the aisle out. Yah, yeah,

1015
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 4: I wish. But so it took everything in my mind,

1016
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 4: in my heart somehow I already knew like that cognitive

1017
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 4: dissonance was already starting. And it took everything I had

1018
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 4: in my body to sit in my seat and knock

1019
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,919
Speaker 4: it up and run out. But like my family was there,

1020
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 4: my mom, my sisters, my brother, my dad, church leaders

1021
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,240
Speaker 4: that I had, so like I can't and I'm about

1022
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 4: to go on a mission. And they encourage you to

1023
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 4: these people, for you to bring these people, and so yes,

1024
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 4: it's a choice that they've offered you to leave. That's

1025
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 4: not a choice. Yeah, that's not a choice. And you

1026
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 4: can't tell somebody, oh you can leave before you tell

1027
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 4: them what they're promising that's not informed consent. So you

1028
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 4: go through the you go through the endowment, and it's

1029
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 4: very They show a video for the same video every time,

1030
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,959
Speaker 4: and it's just about how the earth was created, which

1031
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 4: wasn't too weird to me. It wasn't really new information.

1032
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 4: But then they and then they ask you. They say

1033
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 4: that you you're gonna coven it, So you're gonna promise

1034
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 4: with God. If you promise with God, he's gonna bless you.

1035
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 4: And that's what a covenant is. It's a two way,

1036
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 4: two way street. And so they say when you so

1037
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 4: you're not gonna have premarital sex, you're gonna marry uh,

1038
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 4: you're gonna marry the opposite sex. And then that you're

1039
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 4: Another one is that you're gonna give all your time,

1040
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 4: your talent, your money to the Church of God, and

1041
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 4: you promise to do that. Yeah, it's an all encompassing thing.

1042
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 4: And so like an I'm just sitting there and in

1043
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 4: the middle while they're having you promise these things, they're

1044
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,879
Speaker 4: having their teach you need these like handshakes and these

1045
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 4: words that you need to say at specific times. Things

1046
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 4: that go along with the handshakes and they're like, you

1047
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 4: need to remember this later because it's an important part.

1048
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 4: And I was like, bro, I can't remember all this

1049
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 4: information right, Oh, so so stressful and so but they

1050
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 4: do help you your first time. Like you get up

1051
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 4: there and there's like and there's a it's a veil,

1052
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 4: it's a really thin curtain, and they say that you're

1053
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 4: basically practicing for when you're going to go to heaven.

1054
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 4: And so there's a guy on the other side that's

1055
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 4: pretending to be God, and everybody there's like spots. Everybody

1056
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 4: goes up to this and there's like this is it's

1057
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 4: so hard to explain, but there's like slits that are

1058
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 4: cut in this curtain where you have to put your

1059
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 4: hands in and like give God this person these handshakes

1060
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 4: and tell him these passwords so that you can get

1061
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 4: into Heaven. And then when you do that, you go

1062
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 4: into the room which is called the Celestial Room, which

1063
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 4: is the supposed to be the closest thing to Heaven

1064
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 4: on earth. Yeah, so like that Heavenly looked like because

1065
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 4: it's just like it's beautiful. It's white. I mean, the

1066
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 4: whole temple was white on the inside, and they had

1067
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 4: this beautiful chandelier and it is pretty. It's serene. People

1068
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 4: are talking in the whispers, and I just was confused

1069
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 4: the funk out of my mind. Yeah, so like I

1070
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,919
Speaker 4: have no idea what just happened, and everybody's like, isn't

1071
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 4: it so amazing?

1072
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm stun That's like when the scientologists finally see

1073
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: the the like end, you know, what I'm doing, and

1074
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 1: they're like, it's like a drying of a stick person.

1075
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 6: That's like, I.

1076
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,919
Speaker 2: Will say, though, I loved the temple, Okay, beautiful, well

1077
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 2: the inside that like do I mean? I only I

1078
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 2: had never gotten down because I left before I was

1079
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 2: before that, but I went uh and did baptisms for

1080
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 2: the dead and stuff and it felt.

1081
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:57,919
Speaker 4: So it did.

1082
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 2: Really They're really good at creating an environment that feels

1083
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 2: holy with all of the white and with the lighting

1084
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 2: and everyone's wearing white and everyone's quiet, like there is

1085
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 2: something really beautiful about it, almost like an art installation.

1086
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 6: You know, isn't just all white people. It depends on

1087
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 6: where you are, Okay, but okay, I would.

1088
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 2: Say the majority I'm getting I'm getting a picture depends

1089
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 2: on the state and yeah, yeah, okay, and.

1090
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 4: You can look up pictures online of the inside of temples.

1091
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 4: Of course, you can watch videos of the endowment online

1092
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 4: if you really feel someone to watch fore hours of

1093
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 4: Wow those secret camp.

1094
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 2: But it's my favorite thing to do at the end

1095
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 2: of the day.

1096
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 6: Oh, somebody did a secret I kind of might do that.

1097
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 6: To be honest, I'm very curious.

1098
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 2: You aren't allowed in the temple.

1099
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 6: Okay, great, well I mean YouTube, okay, great, I just

1100
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 6: didn't know somebody did that. I didn't know somebody secretly.

1101
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 2: There is still a little part of me that's like,

1102
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 2: but that's wrong.

1103
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 6: But that's wrong that you're very supposed to do that.

1104
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Well, can you tell us about your journey

1105
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 2: in terms of your sexuality and how that process, like

1106
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 2: realizing that about yourself came about.

1107
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 4: Sure? Sure, so so on my mission, I so you're

1108
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 4: paired off with one person and those could change over

1109
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 4: six weeks. But so I would have and so it

1110
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 4: was a woman, it was another girl, and so yeah,

1111
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 4: part time is a lesbian having, you know, being a

1112
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 4: care a girl for twenty four hours. But so, but

1113
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 4: I would have like these. It was weird for me

1114
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 4: because I'd have these really intense connections with people that

1115
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 4: I still am friends with but we're just friends. Those

1116
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 4: very platonic But then I would have other experiences where

1117
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 4: I was like, God, she's fucking hot, you know. And

1118
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 4: so it was a really confusing time. And then at

1119
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 4: the end of my mission, I got reprimanded because my

1120
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 4: hair was in a faux hawk and they told me

1121
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 4: that I needed to change it because it was too lesbian. Wow,

1122
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 4: and so, and I was very offended by that. But

1123
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 4: so that was kind of like the one of the

1124
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 4: big and people had said it, like they're in high

1125
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 4: school and things, but I kind of was just always

1126
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 4: like no, whatever, Like I have three sisters. I just

1127
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 4: am really used to having really intense feminine connections with people,

1128
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 4: and so I just kind of wrote it off that way.

1129
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,959
Speaker 4: Went back to b YU after I got home from

1130
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 4: my short of a mission and just kind of started

1131
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 4: to realize that this was not the place that I

1132
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 4: wanted to be, that people weren't being authentic in their worship,

1133
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 4: that they weren't trying to have a relationship with God.

1134
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 4: And so I left the church because I didn't feel

1135
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 4: good there anymore. And that was something I taught people

1136
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 4: in my mission. If you don't feel good, then it's

1137
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 4: not a good thing, and so my own words kind

1138
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 4: of came back to buy me in the ass, and

1139
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 4: I was like, all right, like I'm not going, and

1140
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 4: I kind of felt at that time, I kind of

1141
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 4: felt like God was like and I don't really believe

1142
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 4: in God, but higher Power whatever it she they whatever

1143
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 4: it is, was like I don't care. I don't care. Yeah,

1144
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 4: And so I was like, cool, I'm gonna leave. And

1145
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 4: then after I had left. It was after I had left,

1146
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 4: I started going to I switched to university, started going

1147
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,959
Speaker 4: to school studying social work because I wanted to be

1148
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 4: a therapist and still do still in the process and

1149
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 4: in my social work. When I went gus, we talked

1150
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 4: about the Kinsey scale and I'm looking at this scale,

1151
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,479
Speaker 4: going dear God.

1152
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, okay, so can you tell us what

1153
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 1: the Kinsey scale is, because.

1154
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, yes, So on one scale I always get

1155
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 4: the numbers mixed up. But on one side of the scale,

1156
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 4: you're extremely heterosexual, so you are very very attractive to

1157
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 4: the opposite sex. And that will say is like a one,

1158
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 4: so you're very very attractive to the opposite sex. But

1159
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 4: two is like you've had maybe one or two interactions

1160
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:07,919
Speaker 4: with the same sex, but you're still very much into

1161
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 4: the opposite sex. And then it goes all the way

1162
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 4: over to being very very gay. And I was of

1163
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 4: like a five and a half so and I and

1164
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 4: it's nice because I love that visual because I really

1165
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 4: I had always thought that sex that or that my

1166
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 4: that like gender identity, and that my sexuality was needed

1167
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 4: to be binary. And I like this having this model

1168
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 4: at this scale of that sexuality is fluid, that it

1169
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 4: doesn't have to be just one thing. And so I

1170
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 4: realized in this class, oh my god, I'm gay. As

1171
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 4: I'm driving home. I have one sister who's out of

1172
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 4: the Mormon church and she is my life saver, my

1173
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 4: best friend.

1174
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 5: I love her so much.

1175
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:02,919
Speaker 4: But so I take her and I was like, oh

1176
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 4: my god, Luce, I think I'm gay. All right, I

1177
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 4: told her, Actually I think i'm by is what I said.

1178
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 4: And she was like, oh, what are you to do

1179
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 4: about that? Just so just so chill this phone, calm

1180
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 4: just so like oh, like I had told her, like

1181
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 4: my favorite color was green, which was the greatest, was

1182
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 4: the best response I could have had that she was like, yeah, okay,

1183
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 4: like and then about twenty minutes later, I texted her

1184
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 4: back and was like, no, I'm gay because the thought

1185
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 4: of kissing a man with pulses me.

1186
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: So your attorney went from zero to sixty real quick.

1187
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, so fast, And so I and everything clicked into place.

1188
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 4: I realized, like me feeling the way that I felt

1189
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 4: in the moment church where I felt out of place

1190
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 4: for so long. I felt like I really came into

1191
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 4: myself and was like, oh my god, everything makes sense

1192
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 4: now and I feel like I finally understood myself for

1193
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 4: the first time, and I was just riding this euphoria.

1194
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 4: And then I kind of came back down to earth

1195
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 4: about two months later when I realized I'm going to

1196
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 4: have to tell my very devout parents. I told all

1197
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 4: of my siblings, who were very very very supportive and

1198
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 4: very loving, but did the last to tell my parents.

1199
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 4: It was it was Easter. And then it all kind

1200
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 4: of came to a culmination on an Easter Sunday, and

1201
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 4: my mom had requested that we all go to church

1202
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 4: with her, and I wasn't dating anybody because I was

1203
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 4: not ready yet. So I had only been helped to

1204
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 4: myself for three months, so I was like, we're putting

1205
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 4: a pause on it. But so my mom requested that

1206
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 4: we come to church, and I again was just like,

1207
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 4: this is the worst fucking possible place that I want

1208
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 4: to be right now. I feel so horrible. And I

1209
01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 4: helped my mom clean up after and I left and

1210
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 4: I was going back home to my place, and I

1211
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 4: when I was like leaving, I just like looked deep

1212
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 4: into her eyes and I realized how much it's going

1213
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 4: to break her when I told her that I was

1214
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 4: gay and that her perception of me like I had

1215
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 4: already left, and I knew that her ideas about me

1216
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 4: had changed, But as soon as I told her that

1217
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 4: I was gay, that she was gonna it was going

1218
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 4: to change forever, and I didn't want it to. And

1219
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 4: I went home and I luckily texted my amazing therapist

1220
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 4: and I told her how I was feeling, and she said,

1221
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 4: you need to go to the er right now, and

1222
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 4: so I listened to her, and another one of my

1223
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 4: sisters took me to the er, and we're sitting there

1224
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 4: and I have hours. It's the er, so you have

1225
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 4: hours and hours to wait before they see you. They

1226
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 4: didn't admit me, which I know now is was a

1227
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 4: terrible mistake, but I was fined so it turned out okay,

1228
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 4: but you really have to mental health is so hard.

1229
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 4: You really have to fight for really for help, which

1230
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 4: is sad. So but so I'm sitting there and in

1231
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 4: a psychiatric room where there's nothing, there's no windows, and

1232
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 4: just in this like little you know, those little, thin

1233
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:27,160
Speaker 4: little towns, and I had to really kind of come

1234
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 4: to Jesus moment where I said, like in my brain,

1235
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 4: like I I can't do this. I can't. I either

1236
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 4: it's either the church or it's me. Because I was

1237
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:42,240
Speaker 4: willing to literally die for it, because I thought it

1238
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:44,720
Speaker 4: would be better to be dead and that I would

1239
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 4: still go to heaven, I would still be with my family,

1240
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 4: I wouldn't have broken any commandments. And I was willing

1241
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 4: to make that sacrifice so I could be with my

1242
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 4: family forever. And but in that moment, I was like,

1243
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 4: you know what, that's that's not what I want. I

1244
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 4: need to live authentically. I want to be myself. I

1245
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 4: want to have a wife, I want to have a family.

1246
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:14,439
Speaker 4: I want to have a dog and a picket fence.

1247
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 4: And I can't be I'm not going to be in

1248
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:20,919
Speaker 4: a church that makes me feel like I want to die,

1249
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 4: and that's not where I belong anymore. And so I

1250
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 4: mean it's it's still been a road to recovery. But

1251
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 4: that was a huge changing point for me where I

1252
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 4: was like, I'm not I can't be here. I'm not

1253
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 4: going to be here, and I it's hard for me

1254
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 4: to hear because I still have siblings in church. Right,

1255
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 4: my parents are still in their ish supportive not really.

1256
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:47,439
Speaker 4: They didn't acknowledge my wife, my then girlfriend at the time,

1257
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 4: for about a year. They wouldn't even acknowledge her presence.

1258
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 4: We're not allowed to touch at my parents' house. But when

1259
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:57,840
Speaker 4: people say they're like we still they're like lbs and

1260
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 4: they say, oh, like we love the LGBTT people and

1261
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:05,040
Speaker 4: we support them. No, you don't, No, you don't. And

1262
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 4: in Utah, the numbers for a team suicide or astronomical,

1263
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 4: and they're always like, well, we don't know. Maybe it's

1264
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 4: the maybe it's the you know, the how high we

1265
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 4: are we don't get enough oxygen. No, like like right, right,

1266
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 4: we live in the mountains that our altitude is too high,

1267
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 4: so we don't get enough oxygen to our brains. No,

1268
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 4: it's because we live in a society. The Utah has

1269
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 4: a culture of not accepting people who are different from them. Yeah,

1270
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 4: and and so so through through COVID, I had a

1271
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 4: job change where one of my best friends invited me

1272
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 4: to come work at with her at a district or

1273
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 4: at a Title one school, excuse me, in the Salt

1274
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 4: Lake City School district. And we created an allyship bub

1275
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 4: together and so and just creating trying to create a

1276
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 4: space for kiddos who not that they have to be,

1277
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 4: not that they're really LGBTQO. There's lots of straight kids

1278
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 4: in there, but we talk about aapi issues. We talk

1279
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 4: about Black Lives Matter, we talk about Women's Month, we

1280
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 4: talk about all different types of things and LGBTQ Month

1281
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 4: and so, but just giving them a place and trying

1282
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 4: to help break down the barriers of Uh, if I'm different,

1283
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 4: I don't belong. No, if you're different, you do belong

1284
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,679
Speaker 4: and you have a voice, and it's so important, it's

1285
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 4: so important for you to be here. So I did

1286
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:36,960
Speaker 4: come out to it's weird to come out again. It

1287
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 4: came out against my third graders that first year because

1288
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 4: I was kind of like kids. I mean, their parents

1289
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 4: obviously knew that I was, that I was very very gay.

1290
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:49,800
Speaker 4: Kids are a little bit less in tune with with

1291
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 4: society norms. I guess, yeah, and so, but I came

1292
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:57,440
Speaker 4: out just really generally. I just was like, like, I

1293
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 4: just really it was. I tried to be as nonchal

1294
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 4: as possible but told them I was gay. And a

1295
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 4: girl came up to me. We had recessed like five

1296
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 4: minutes after that, she came up to me and told

1297
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 4: me that she's by And it took everything I had

1298
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 4: to be cool, like composed, and I just was so

1299
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 4: so excited that she felt that I was a safe person. Yeah,

1300
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:25,599
Speaker 4: that she could talk to me about that, And and

1301
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 4: I really just try and be a very out and

1302
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:30,680
Speaker 4: proud educator now to show kids, you know, you can

1303
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 4: have a wife, you can be successful, you can be

1304
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,680
Speaker 4: happy in Utah, in the worlds being yourself.

1305
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 2: So wow, I commend you so much. Your voices like

1306
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 2: yours are so needed in that fucking state like you are.

1307
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:50,679
Speaker 2: I can imagine just like you existing proudly let alone

1308
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 2: like in front of children who are impressionable is making

1309
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 2: such a difference to so many kids who would otherwise

1310
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 2: be in this just like sea of shame and the

1311
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:05,759
Speaker 2: opposite of acceptance. So I just think it's so fucking cool.

1312
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 2: Good job, good job, thank you.

1313
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:13,559
Speaker 4: It's it's it's hard, but it's so rewarding. And this

1314
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 4: is never the career that I wanted to get into,

1315
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 4: and I still want to be a therapist. But but

1316
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:22,120
Speaker 4: it's I feel so so lucky to be able to

1317
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 4: to have a voice.

1318
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, oh, thank you for fighting through uh yeah,

1319
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:31,720
Speaker 2: all the all the trials and tribulations to get to

1320
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 2: the other side.

1321
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 4: Thank you, beautiful.

1322
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:36,600
Speaker 2: My my, I have family members who went through a

1323
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 2: very similar experience to you, and has been very challenging

1324
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 2: dealing with that. And and you know, like you assume

1325
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 2: your parents are going to like love your partner and

1326
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 2: love you for who you are, and that is not

1327
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 2: always the case, and it's really unfortunate.

1328
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's it is a bummer. My So, my

1329
01:10:55,760 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 4: wife and I we eloped four months ago, almost four

1330
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:00,639
Speaker 4: months ago.

1331
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:04,800
Speaker 2: Congratsw So.

1332
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 4: So we've been but we've been together two years now,

1333
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:12,639
Speaker 4: so it's been it's it's interesting. She is I gonna

1334
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 4: cry again. She's been most kind and compassionate human and

1335
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 4: she's a never mo so never be a Mormon. But

1336
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 4: she was raised in Utah and in very understanding and

1337
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:33,840
Speaker 4: always is supportive of everything that I do, and she's

1338
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 4: just an amazing woman. And it's sad to me that

1339
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 4: they my parents always tell me, we just want you

1340
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 4: to be happy. No, you want me to be happy

1341
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 4: the way that you want me to be. So it

1342
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 4: makes sense. They want me to be happy how they

1343
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 4: feel I should be happy, not in the way that

1344
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 4: I am. And so yeah, it's a it's a struggle.

1345
01:11:55,200 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 4: But but my siblings are My siblings are my savings.

1346
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:04,680
Speaker 4: They're so incredible and so so awesome. So and all

1347
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:08,760
Speaker 4: my nieces and nephews left my wife, so my mom

1348
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 4: can stuck it.

1349
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad you have them. How is your

1350
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 2: relationship with your parents now? Has it improved at all?

1351
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 4: To some degree? We disagree. I we disagree on a

1352
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:26,880
Speaker 4: lot of political things as well, which kind of makes

1353
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 4: it harder. And so I honestly, I don't really talk

1354
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 4: to them a whole ton. And uh, I don't know,

1355
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,800
Speaker 4: it's it's weird. It's kind of touch and touch and go. Yeah,

1356
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 4: so so I do. I mean, they're not. We just

1357
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 4: kind of let each other live our own minds. Really

1358
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 4: what kind of happens. So see each other for big events, have.

1359
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,640
Speaker 1: You been able to deconstruct all the beliefs of Mormonism

1360
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 1: or do you still have some residual hang on?

1361
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:59,599
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, it's a great question. So I got

1362
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 4: out a new because I was gay, right, so I

1363
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 4: didn't feel like I belonged, and then I was Later

1364
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:11,600
Speaker 4: about a year later, I started listening to different podcasts

1365
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 4: and things started looking up. Things started reading, started reading

1366
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:19,800
Speaker 4: stuff from I just respect a social worker. We researched

1367
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 4: the Ship out of Shit, So so started reading all

1368
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,960
Speaker 4: these things about and really like Joseph Smith was kind

1369
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 4: of That's the things that I started studying first were

1370
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 4: about him and reading about how he had he was

1371
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 4: raping underage girls, that he was having affairs behind his

1372
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 4: wife's back. That when he is put into place the

1373
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,559
Speaker 4: ceiling ceremony, so getting married in the temple, they call

1374
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 4: it ceiling. He got sealed to his affairs first and

1375
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:56,599
Speaker 4: then got sealed to Emma, his wife that his family were.

1376
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,719
Speaker 4: It was legal back then. They were culture treasure diggers,

1377
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 4: treasure hunters, so they would pretend to know where buried

1378
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:09,720
Speaker 4: treasure was and they would trick people into paying the

1379
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 4: money and then they would say, oh, there's there's like

1380
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 4: a big thing of like gold here, and then they'd

1381
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 4: be like it disappeared because somebody doesn't believe. And so

1382
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:20,760
Speaker 4: he got he got put in jail a few times,

1383
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 4: had to play a pay a bunch of fines, but

1384
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 4: his whole family did that. Just lots of anachronisms in

1385
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 4: the Book of Mormon where things shouldn't exist, and he

1386
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,240
Speaker 4: lots of people feel like he plagiarized the whole Book

1387
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 4: of Mormon from a book called View of the Hebrews,

1388
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:42,519
Speaker 4: because a popular view at the time was that people

1389
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:45,720
Speaker 4: in South America were Jews that had come on a

1390
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 4: boat from Israel, and so so he just kind of

1391
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:53,759
Speaker 4: stuck it and put it over there. He also committed

1392
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:57,160
Speaker 4: fraud with he started the bank and then stole people's money,

1393
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 4: just like all of these things where I fellow my

1394
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 4: whole it was. It was I was sad because I

1395
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:09,519
Speaker 4: knew I was sad when I left, when I was gay,

1396
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 4: because I was like, I don't wlong here. But when

1397
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:15,240
Speaker 4: I started deconstructing the beliefs, I was like, oh my god,

1398
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 4: everything I was taught my whole life was a lie.

1399
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 4: And then the things that I taught on my mission

1400
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 4: taught people on my mission were a lie. Yeah, and

1401
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:28,760
Speaker 4: so trying to come to terms of that fact it

1402
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 4: was a it was very very difficult. So, yeah, therapists

1403
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 4: to have that are trained in trauma totally, that was yeah.

1404
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes me really sad too, for for loved

1405
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 2: ones of mine. And I'm not gonna We've talked about

1406
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:47,840
Speaker 2: this before. I'm like, I'm not going to try to

1407
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:50,679
Speaker 2: interrupt their beliefs at this point in their lives because

1408
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 2: it's working for them and it's serving them and I

1409
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 2: want them.

1410
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 6: To be happy.

1411
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:55,920
Speaker 2: But it does make me sad that the person that

1412
01:15:55,960 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 2: they hold up as like the prophet of God it

1413
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 2: brought the real true church back, is like a fucking

1414
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:06,320
Speaker 2: con man lunatic.

1415
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:10,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, an actual lunatic. It makes me so many, all

1416
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:11,559
Speaker 6: of them, all of them.

1417
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,719
Speaker 1: It's just like a person being like I'm just gonna

1418
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 1: kill myself because I can't watch the love from my

1419
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 1: mom's eyes. I felt that, like because of a fucking

1420
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 1: narcissist lunatic from one hundred years ago.

1421
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,679
Speaker 6: They're insane. Oh it makes me so mad.

1422
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:31,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, Like Brigham Young was an incredible racist.

1423
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:39,200
Speaker 4: He gave the go ahead to kill hundreds of non

1424
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 4: Mormons just kind of for funzies. He tried to it's

1425
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:46,439
Speaker 4: too blood atonement, which they also talk about.

1426
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:49,759
Speaker 6: I know, I know.

1427
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 2: If you can you can commit us in too great

1428
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 2: like so grave that the only way to repent for

1429
01:16:57,120 --> 01:17:00,280
Speaker 2: it is to have your blood spilled. That is not

1430
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:02,439
Speaker 2: an actual like mainstream Mormon doctor, but that was a

1431
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 2: Brigham Young like why.

1432
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:07,720
Speaker 1: Do a lunatic ship you can come up with religion is.

1433
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:12,599
Speaker 6: And then you have to feel like the crazy one.

1434
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:16,640
Speaker 1: It is one of the most frustrating things I can

1435
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:17,879
Speaker 1: imagine happening.

1436
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 2: I hope that my family members don't listen to those

1437
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:26,639
Speaker 2: because I feel like they'll be really upset. But yeah,

1438
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 2: I know. But honestly, like a lot of people I

1439
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 2: know got out of it through starting to research the

1440
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:36,000
Speaker 2: history of Joseph Smith outside of the official Mormon history,

1441
01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 2: and that is like really a rabbit hole you can

1442
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 2: go down and like wait he did what?

1443
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:48,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, even they even if I'm a borrow a

1444
01:17:48,200 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 4: phrase from Lea remedy, if they acknowledged the past, if

1445
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:57,120
Speaker 4: the Mormons acknowledged their past and said, these are some

1446
01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:02,000
Speaker 4: practices that we don't believe in anymore, and we're very sorry,

1447
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:05,920
Speaker 4: but this is what we think now. I would be

1448
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:08,680
Speaker 4: okay with it because the teachings that they do have

1449
01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:13,280
Speaker 4: now are mostly okay. You know, you should love people

1450
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 4: and accept everyone. Not that they do that, but but

1451
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 4: the actual teachings of the church now are ish okay,

1452
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:22,960
Speaker 4: But they don't do that. They shove everything under a

1453
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:26,680
Speaker 4: rug and hanging over and go no, this never what

1454
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:29,840
Speaker 4: that never happened? What's just the gas lighting?

1455
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:30,480
Speaker 5: Aloe?

1456
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:36,519
Speaker 2: I need, I know, I know, such a shame, but listen,

1457
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:40,639
Speaker 2: you are amazing, and I think you're so strong and

1458
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 2: you're even just through the screen like you're such a

1459
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 2: powerful force. And I just really appreciate you. We really

1460
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:48,560
Speaker 2: appreciate you sharing your story and reaching out to you

1461
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 2: so much.

1462
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 4: I really appreciate the platform so and I mean I try,

1463
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 4: I try and tell I try and talk to everybody

1464
01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 4: about it, but I really, I just really appreciate you

1465
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:02,080
Speaker 4: guys and all the hard work that you guys do.

1466
01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:05,840
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. Really though, my favorite phrase when I

1467
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:08,519
Speaker 4: listened to the When Your Guys' podcast is I just say,

1468
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:11,439
Speaker 4: oh my God, over and over, oh my god, oh

1469
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 4: oh my god, oh my god. It's the whole time.

1470
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:18,880
Speaker 4: I just I love I love it because it's so great.

1471
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:22,400
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Is there anything you want to

1472
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:25,639
Speaker 2: share with anyone? Anything you want to shout out?

1473
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:26,320
Speaker 4: Oh?

1474
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:28,360
Speaker 2: Also, we were talking about suicide, so I just want

1475
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:30,720
Speaker 2: to mention while we're recording, because we didn't say it

1476
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 2: last time. Was that nine to eight eight is now

1477
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:37,719
Speaker 2: the official mental health crisis hotline. Yes, it's much easier

1478
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:39,320
Speaker 2: than whatever the fuck that number was before.

1479
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 4: Oh my god? Yeah, right, oh my good?

1480
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:43,640
Speaker 5: You know.

1481
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:48,240
Speaker 4: I mean you can follow me on TikTok. Yeah, why

1482
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:51,960
Speaker 4: do we handle? Is gay x moo underscore r m

1483
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 4: love it? Yep. My instagram is Little Orphan twelve because

1484
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:03,440
Speaker 4: my name is Annie, so Little Orphan twelve. But I

1485
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 4: you know, people that are in cults, or if they're

1486
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:09,840
Speaker 4: trying to get out of or I mean, anybody. I

1487
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:14,640
Speaker 4: think just really what really helped me was listening to

1488
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:18,320
Speaker 4: my own self. I feel like our brains hold so

1489
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:23,480
Speaker 4: much power, and that they that we are we cognitively

1490
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:27,200
Speaker 4: ignore so much of what we already know, and so

1491
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:30,759
Speaker 4: getting in touch with like oh why did I feel

1492
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:34,479
Speaker 4: bad about that? Oh? Why do I like this? It

1493
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 4: can be a really scary jump to kind of delve

1494
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:41,400
Speaker 4: into your own consciousness. But and you should definitely if

1495
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:44,480
Speaker 4: you need somebody to do it with you a professionally,

1496
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:48,800
Speaker 4: definitely should. But I think that I think that kind

1497
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:51,679
Speaker 4: of that is the key to are in our power

1498
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:55,080
Speaker 4: as people. So and also abortion is health care.

1499
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 2: So then and I say those things in the name

1500
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:00,280
Speaker 2: of Jesus Christ. Amen.

1501
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:05,479
Speaker 6: Thank you have an amazing day.

1502
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:07,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a wonderful day. And thank you again

1503
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:08,080
Speaker 2: so much.

1504
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:10,320
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you guys, have an awesome day.

1505
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:13,200
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to Stephanie and Annie for reaching

1506
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 2: out and coming on the show, because it was awesome

1507
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,599
Speaker 2: to have them. And if anyone else has listener stories

1508
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 2: that they'd like to share, you can leave a message

1509
01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 2: on our hotline which is three four seven eight six Trust,

1510
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:27,200
Speaker 2: or you can email us at Trust mepod at gmail

1511
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:27,679
Speaker 2: dot com.

1512
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 6: Thank you guys so much for listening.

1513
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:32,160
Speaker 3: We can't wait to see you again next week. Remember

1514
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 3: to follow your gut, watch.

1515
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:39,479
Speaker 2: Out for rad plants, and never ever trust me. Hy

1516
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:46,639
Speaker 2: Bye Trust Me. As produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp

1517
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:47,719
Speaker 2: and Steve Delemator.

1518
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:49,759
Speaker 6: The special thanks to Stacey Para.

1519
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church

1520
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:55,200
Speaker 2: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1521
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,760
Speaker 2: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

1522
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:02,320
Speaker 2: trust Me Cult Pod. I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and

1523
01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:03,880
Speaker 2: Ola Lola on Twitter, and.

1524
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:07,959
Speaker 1: I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham Hicks

1525
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:08,519
Speaker 1: on Twitter.

1526
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:11,000
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.