WEBVTT - Ep 115: Gregg Parini 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:04.520 These coaches. 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:06.680 If we're going to be effective, we've got to understand 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:10.119 that every athlete walking through our door has a unique history, 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:14.120 a unique family life, unique genetic background. They're going to 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:17.360 respond to stimuli in different ways. And if we're going 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.200 to be effective coaches for all of our kids, not 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:22.440 just a select few, we've got to get to know 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:24.560 who those people are walking through the door. And that 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:25.920 just takes time and energy. 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.680 This is the Reform Sports Project, a podcast about restoring 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.879 healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.440 education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacor from the 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:40.360 Reform Sports Podcast. My guest today is Greg Parini, had 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:43.720 men's and women swimming and diving coach at Dennison University 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.400 since nineteen eighty seven. Coach Parini has built one of 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.440 the most successful programs in the history of D three athletics, 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:54.080 highlighted by seven NCAA Division three national championships, sixteen national 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.320 runner up finishes, and a streak of sixty eight consecutive 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.720 top ten national finishes across both genders. Greg and I 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:04.640 discussed his interest in helping young people transactional verse transcendent 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.520 relationships with athletes and the importance of getting to know 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.360 each athlete. Now, before we get to the interview, we'd 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.119 like to dedicate this episode of Greg's mother, the Reverend 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:17.240 Barbara Dennison Parini, who passed on January thirtieth, twenty twenty four. 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.400 A highly accomplished priest in the Episcopal Church, Reverend Parini 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.920 served five different dioceses, was instrumental in developing the first 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.200 hospice ministry in Michigan, and worked tirelessly for battered and 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.399 abused women. She was a positive role model not only 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:35.039 for the community she served, but for her family as well. Man, 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:38.480 I'm humbled, I'm grateful for this gentleman. We connected, damn 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.960 near four or five years ago. We've spoken several times. 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.000 I'm really, really, really excited. He's definitely a legend. He's 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.840 a goat, you know, one of the best coaches NCAA 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:50.360 history for sure, the head swimming and dive coach from 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:52.640 Dennison coach, Greg Parini coach. 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:54.160 Thanks so much for hopping on. 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:55.120 Colin Nick. 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:57.840 It's good to hear from you again and have been 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:02.760 following you and your podcasts success and trajectory over the 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.200 last few years. You guys are doing a remarkable job. 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:07.320 Just honored to be a part of it. 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:08.400 Well, thank you. 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.600 Coaching I've had on, as you know, several coaches, you know, 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:14.799 I've had Dabo Sweeney on, I've had you know, Bob 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:18.280 Bowman on Anson Dornce on, a lot of these coaches 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:22.160 that have had sustained success. And I think our listeners 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:24.280 and I know I am fascinated with I mean, you 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.320 got three national titles, I don't know how many runners up, 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.320 and then you were a ridiculous swimmer in your own 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.800 right and had amazing success there. How do you get 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:37.760 Dennison to have such success year over year over You're 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.680 constantly either you're win international title, all Americans are in 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:43.920 the fight for how do you keep doing How do 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:45.280 you build that from scratch? 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:46.840 Which is what you did well? 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.720 I you know I didn't. I didn't arrive here with 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:50.519 an empty play. 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:55.480 Dennison had established a strong tradition in swimming and diving, 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:59.400 not to the level we've taken it now, but I 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:01.840 had a solid foundation to work from. And that was 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.120 one of the things that attracted me to Dennison is 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:08.239 that I saw the resources in the form of facility 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.880 and otherwise to build something. 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:12.800 And you know. 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:15.679 I honestly, if you'd asked me thirty seven years ago 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:17.959 when I arrived, is this the level of success we 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.359 would have had? And I said, well, in some ways, 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.360 I would tell you, yeah, I'll be surprised if we 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.119 don't have that level of success. But then, knowing how 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.359 hard this can be, sometimes I'm really surprised we've had 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.040 this much success at all. It's a it's a really 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.800 weird dynamic, but very fortunate to work in a place 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:39.080 like Dennison that is so supportive of what we're trying 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:42.840 to do, providing us with opportunities and resources. And you know, 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.000 when I first arrived, it was just pretty much me 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:48.360 and then it was you know, incremental improvements and resource 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.480 allocation in the form of you know, hiring assistant coaches 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.760 from part time to full time, then finally adding you know, 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.800 the facility about ten years ago. And so it's been 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.280 a well, you know, let's say, genesis of the program, 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:04.880 but consistent. 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.680 That way you said thirty seven years right, yeah, and 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.880 you often hear you know the cliches. You know, kids 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.080 are soft right here at all time, kids are soft. 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:16.240 You know which times change, right? You know, everyone changes? 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.720 How do you have a culture in which you as 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.240 a as a human, as a coach, have been able 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:24.960 to adapt because let's face it, I mean things are 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.640 different social media. How do you create that consistency within 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.159 your program is to start with the recruiting process, Like, 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:33.520 can you walk us through how you continue to have 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:38.120 the level of consistent success and buying it sounds like 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:39.960 from the athletes that you bring into your program. 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.880 Well, I think it starts with a vision and a 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:47.039 really strong reason why. I'm really fortunate. I got into 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:51.600 this game not necessarily because I wanted to develop the 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.159 most competitive or a highly competitive small college swimming program 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:56.680 in the country. I got into this game because I 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.599 really wanted to work with young people and I was 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.080 interested in using, you know, swimming as a vehicle through 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.520 which we could help young men and young women kind 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:09.520 of find their way. And I think that precedes everything 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.240 that we're trying to do competitively. Is this I think 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:17.200 innate strong desire to work with young people and equip 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:20.719 them for life afterwards. And I think if we do 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.640 that process and we're committed to that process in a 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:27.359 heartfelt and authentic way, it really makes the rest of 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.720 the job much easier because, you know, there's a consistency 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.919 in our messaging, there's a consistency in our team culture 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.600 that transcends I guess time. I mean trying to help 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:43.320 young men and women's that transcends time and era and generations. 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:46.480 And I think there are some unique dynamics in play 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:49.320 right now with the current generation of eighteen to twenty 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.479 two year olds. I was just talking about this with 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:56.240 some colleagues yesterday about what that means for us as educators, mentors, 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.839 and coaches. But I think we're fortunate here to start 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.800 at the foundation that we're just here to try try 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.800 to help young men and young women find themselves, find 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.200 out who they are, develop authentic relationships with themselves and 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:13.040 the sport that they've chosen in an effort to I guess, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:17.000 equip them for for life after after college and life 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:19.599 after sport. And so I think that's what's allowed us 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:23.200 to maybe move generationally. Is that that common threat of 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.960 helping people, I think transcend anything that we're doing logistically 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:28.039 or strategically. 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:29.520 If I'm making sense. 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:31.120 I mean, it makes complete sense. 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.360 In fact, I've always heard it sounds like the people 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.360 who have the most success seem to really have that. 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:37.640 But listen. 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:39.960 I want to raise great human beings. You know, I 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:41.960 have six children, right, I want to help them be great. 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.920 But I'm a freaking competitor, you know what I mean? Like, like, 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.240 you're a competitor, So do you have to separate? Like 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.520 do you have to I guess what I visualize as 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:52.799 you as you were telling your story about helping young people, 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:55.359 I'm like, yeah, do you come in every you know, 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:57.920 let's say the season ends in you know, six eight 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.000 weeks whatever it is, and you win the national time, 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.000 you don't win the nationality either way, we all start 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:03.880 the next day at zero. 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:04.039 Right. 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:05.560 It's like if you're in sales, you have a. 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.279 Great month, the next day you're in first of the 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:09.279 month and you're at zero. 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.240 You know, whatever it is, right, you. 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.080 Got to compete, right, So how do you balance the 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.520 vision like you described of literally keeping the main thing, 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:19.120 the main thing, which is to use swimming as a 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:21.880 platform to help people, but also realize, Man, I want 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:23.720 to go I want to go win national title and if 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:25.640 there's anything wrong with that, but how do you continue 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:26.200 that balance? 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.160 Well, I this is competition, and I think competition is 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.680 good for people. I mean, I think it's important that 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.640 we take on hard things. I think it's important that 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:41.320 we set course on a goal, recognizing all the potential 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.920 trip wires and challenges that are going to come along 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.880 the way. But you know, I think the competitive environment 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.840 exposes us a little bit in a way that we're 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:56.160 not exposed necessarily in real time in other areas. I mean, 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:59.080 we're fortunate to be in a sport like swimming where 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:02.160 we have an apt salute standard, which is the Stopwatch, 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:07.880 and you know, and our swimmers are measured objectively every 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.280 single day. They don't have to always pass. You know, 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:12.560 I've got since played ice hockey, and so much of 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:16.560 their their ascension in sport was not only past, you know, 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.360 putting up good metrics, but also passing the eye test 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:20.120 with the coaches. 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:24.320 And I think, you know, swimming benefits from the standpoint 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:25.680 of we've. 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:29.280 Got absolute standards in the form of the stop Watch 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:33.600 that expose us and basically tell us exactly who we are. 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.520 As I tell my team around here, there's no bsing 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.680 to stop watch. It's going to tell you exactly who 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.240 you are. And whenever you find yourself in an environment 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.000 like that, you know you're challenged to be at your 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:50.560 best the competitive environment brings all that out. And so 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.360 if I'm committed to helping young men and young women 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:57.760 move down the maturation pipe, I understand the competition and 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.120 the discipline and the training that comes along in order 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:05.000 to be successful on our sport is a great laboratory, 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.000 it's a it's a great experience for us, and so 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:10.199 the competition fits. 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:11.520 In with that growth mindset. 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:13.880 I don't think you can have a growth mindset without 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:18.239 having a healthy sense of competition with yourself. 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:19.840 If that makes some sense. 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:20.680 I think it's great. 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:22.800 You know, the reason I always I always want to 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.440 dig in a little deeper, especially on a point like that, 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.400 is because you know, it's so easy at the youth level, 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:30.480 right to younger ages. 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:32.760 Right You're you're you're dealing with young adults. 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.040 You know, in some cases today, I mean, for God's sakes, 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.880 there's college football athletes or whatever because of COVID that 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:39.880 are twenty seven years old, you know, I mean, that's 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:41.840 what it is, and through no fault of their own, 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:42.720 it is what it is. 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:43.960 Those are damn adults. 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.480 So my point is when you trickle that back down 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.760 to the high school and middle school and youth ranks, 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.200 you know, it's very easy for coaches that get caught 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.280 up in the results, in the winning and the winning. 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:56.960 How many of those of those coaches, I don't know, 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:58.800 Maybe they all are, maybe none of them are are 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:00.840 sitting there going I really want to use this platform 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.080 to you know, help young people. Well maybe they also 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.000 want to do well so they can you know, progress 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:09.320 their career, you know, their own coaching career. So how 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.720 I guess I want younger coaches to hear from folks 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:15.480 like yourself who are season You don't you can never 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:17.600 coach again tomorrow. You're a Hall of famer. You know, 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.920 your your accolades speak for themselves. But I want to 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:24.040 take folks like you and have that mindset trickle down 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:27.120 because I think at any age, if you have that mindset, 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.960 you're going to get good results, putting the athlete ahead 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.160 of anything else. I mean, what do you think about 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:36.800 the landscape and maybe taking your approach to younger kids. 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.280 Do you think that you don't see enough of that? 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:41.400 Do you think it's more driven around because I know 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:42.760 you volunteer coach as well. 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:45.439 Yeah, well I think you know, I think as coaches, 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:47.240 we've got to make a decision whether or not the 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.560 kind of relationships we want with our with our athletes 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:54.560 is transactional or transcendent. And if if we're interested in 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:58.440 only generating transactional relationships with our athletes, where we see 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.000 athletes as a means to an end rather than an 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.640 end and of themselves, I think that's a path to success, 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:07.440 and I think it can. I think one of the 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:11.360 outcomes of that can be really good relationships. But I 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:16.000 also know that that, generally speaking, has a pretty short 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:21.040 shelf life if your athletes perceive themselves as only being 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.720 a memes to a coach's and I'm not sure that 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:26.600 there's always going to be a ton of trust there. 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.320 That's always my concern is. I think that when we've 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:32.880 got the best long term interest of our student athletes 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:37.559 in mind, and we're thinking in terms of developing transitional 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.480 or transcendent relationships versus simply transactional, then I think we 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:45.840 set ourselves up for longer term success. I've had the 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:47.840 good fortune to work with and talk to a lot 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.440 of coaches who are much better than anything I ever did, 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.280 and the one thing, the one common thread that they 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.120 have is that they genuinely enjoy interacting with their athletes. 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.679 Not necessarily from a transactional standpoint, but from let's say, 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:04.160 just a simply holistic caring standpoint. If you go back 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:07.960 to the John Woodens of the John Wooden clearly had 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.560 the love and respect of his athletes in large part 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.160 because of the love and respect that he showed them. 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:17.240 There's that iconic photo of him and Leuel Cinder at 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.679 the time later to become Kareem Abdul Jabbar walking across 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:24.320 the gym floor when Wooden was a young man and 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.319 el Sinder was a student. Then there's that picture juxtaposed 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.240 to that fifty sixty years later, when Woodin is on 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:35.160 a cane and there there's Jabbar helping him across the 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.320 same floor. And I think that that speaks to the 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:42.720 quality of relationships that Wooden was driving that through his 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:45.959 basketball program, and that I think that's a role model 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:46.679 for all of us. 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:47.960 I think all of us can do that. 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.719 I mean, whether we're talking about the Bob Bowmans of 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:52.839 the world, who I spent a few days without in 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:57.040 Arizona in December, we're talking about Doc Kusman and Indiana 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:01.000 who for generations just nurtured those relationships. You know, I 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.000 think every coach has to decide at what level they 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.240 want to have a transactional versus a transitioning or transcendent 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:11.600 relationship with their athletes. And I just think having the 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:15.160 ladder sets us up for much longer term success and 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.560 if we're just simply trying to, let's say, take the 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:18.880 next step in our careers. 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.199 When we return, Greg and I discussed his coaching strategy 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.080 for his team as well as his sons. Before we 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.760 go to break, I've got another exciting announcement for you. 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.280 Team Snap, the leading provider of sports management software, has 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.320 acquired Mojo. 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The combination of 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.280 the two industry leading consumer tech platforms also creates the 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.880 most comprehensive suite of B to B tools of a 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:05.160 for youth sports organizations, including powerful content distribution capabilities to 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:09.800 drive adoption of coaching and training programs, registration tools, payment processing, 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.040 organizational management tools, and much more. 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.160 To learn more, visit www. 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.000 Dot teamsnap dot com and set up a free demo 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.800 to learn how Team snap can help your organization this season. 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.160 Where we left off, Greg and I were about to 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.000 discuss the importance of getting to know each athlete and 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:32.240 coaching them accordingly. 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:35.760 I think that's so well said it. 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.280 You know, you mentioned you have, you know, boys that 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:43.000 played hockey and your professionist coach. So how did you 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:48.080 juggle the balance of being dad and coach? Was it tough? 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.520 How did you navigate it? Because you know you're a competitor. 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:51.760 I'm sure your boys were competitors. 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:52.400 How'd you do it? 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:52.840 Well? 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.520 You know the thing that's remarkably I mean, I coached 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.160 five of our six sons. Our oldest didn't play hockey, 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.520 the next five did. And for me, I got into 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.720 the hockey coaching simply because it afforded me an opportunity 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.680 to spend time with my kids as a volunteer assistant coause 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.760 I played pond hockey in Michigan. I never played organized hockey. 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.320 But you know, to coach organize hockey, you got to 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:15.880 learn something about the game that goes beyond simply. 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:20.480 Skating on the lake. But for me, my priority. 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.120 In becoming a hockey coach is just to be able 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:24.600 to have some time with my kids because my days 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.720 year at the pool were pretty long. I basically leave 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:29.760 the house at four thirty AM, I don't get home 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:34.440 till seven pm, and my boys' schedules just didn't line 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:36.280 up with that very well. So if I wanted to 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:38.360 have any time with my kids, it had to be 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.600 at the hockey rink once I got off the pool deck. 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.080 So typically I'd be at the pool deck for you know, 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.960 thirteen fourteen hours, and then I'd head out to the 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.200 ice rink for a couple hours to skate with them. 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.320 So my priority in being their coach was really dad 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.480 sun time. Now, having said that, we had some pretty 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.400 successful teams. We had some high school teams that made 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.000 it all the way to the national tournament, which was exciting, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.560 and you know, we got into you know, the quarterfinals 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:04.280 and things like that. We had some pretty good hockey 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.360 going on here, and my boys were as. 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.560 Competitive as they get. But I think. 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:13.240 Balancing that bad coach dynamic was really dependent on each 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:16.640 one of the sons. I was working with a son, Joe, 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:19.920 for instance, is you know you know he's he's cut 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.960 from a really competitive cloth. He's a Green Beret, he's 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:26.760 in Special Forces now, he's a self described door kicker. 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:28.800 He's the kind of kid who loved me to be 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:29.520 in his ear. 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:31.920 As a coach, you could say, you could just say 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:33.760 he's a complete badass. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.440 Well, he's something else. He's a work of art, there's no. 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:38.120 Doubt about it. 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.920 But his younger brother of only fifteen months, it's really interesting. 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:46.200 For sixteen months, his younger brother, Solomon didn't want anything 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.040 to do with me on the on the ice or 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.360 on the bench. And so I had to as a 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:52.520 father and as a coach, I had to learn who 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.840 among my sons was willing to listen to me and 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.280 who wanted that input. So like with Joe or with Gabe, 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.040 or with Simon or with Ted, I could be their coach. 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.600 With Solomon, I really had to step away from it though, 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.280 simply because the relationship was The dynamics with that of 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.359 the relationship just didn't necessarily work for him to be 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.920 a better hockey player. So the quieter I was, the 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:17.439 better Solomon played. The Noisier I got with him, the 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:19.760 less effective he was because I think I just simply 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.000 think he got in his head and you know, he 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.240 had dad's voice and his said too much and it 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.879 just messed them up. So I think as a dad coach, 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.520 as a volunteer coach, you've got to read your child 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.199 and ask yourself, Okay, does this guy need me as 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:34.880 a dad right now? Or does he need me as 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.640 a coach? And they're not always the same thing, because 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.560 ultimately it's about putting our athletes needs before our own. 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.440 And I've seen way too many times over the years 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:48.400 where we have a volunteer coach is trying to relive 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.200 their high school club experience through their children, and I 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:54.840 don't always think that that's a particularly good combination. 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.439 I couldn't agree with you more so, how did you? 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:02.280 I mean, you found each personality to your own kid 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:03.800 and coached to that. 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:06.480 Wow. Any successful coach I've ever spoken to it? 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.520 And I know because I played for you know several, 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.280 but I could speak to Mike Fox, who's retired UNC 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.440 baseball coach. I speak about him a lot, And that 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:16.480 was the first time I really played for someone who 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.200 really coached everyone differently, like he knew who he needed 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:21.240 to kind of get on, who he had to love 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.240 on a little bit more. How do you do that 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:27.840 in a limited amount of time, particularly if you're a 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:29.480 you know, volunteer coach, because you're still got to do 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:30.320 x's and o's. 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.439 Well, see, yeah, here's my own personal belief on that. 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.600 I think, you know, for us, it starts with developing 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.879 that relationship with the athlete even before they arrive at 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.400 Dennison and we have that recruiting window that we can 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.080 work to get to know the person and things like that. 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.000 But you know, a lot of times we have coaches 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.080 just stepping out on the field. They inherit a team. 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:52.040 They don't necessarily get to pick their team. But you know, 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.920 for me, I think the key thing, and I learned 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.119 this from Doc Councilman, is that to make sure that 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.800 I slow, let's say, my mind down and practices, and 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:05.760 to listen and to ask questions and to observe. I'm 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.720 generally a fairly quiet coach on deck simply because I'm 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.800 watching how my athletes are responding to what's going on 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.359 around them with the training and with the stimulus that 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:19.080 we've hit them with. Frankly, I guess my own belief 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:21.199 is I think coaches do too much talking and not 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.880 enough listening and observing. And I think the best coaches 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.440 out there get to know their athletes by asking good questions, 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:32.080 by listening to those answers, and by observing their athletes. 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:37.480 Had a great conversation with Sparky Anderson, the great Cincinnati 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.520