1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: These coaches. 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 2: If we're going to be effective, we've got to understand 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 2: that every athlete walking through our door has a unique history, 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 2: a unique family life, unique genetic background. They're going to 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: respond to stimuli in different ways. And if we're going 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: to be effective coaches for all of our kids, not 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 2: just a select few, we've got to get to know 8 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 2: who those people are walking through the door. And that 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 2: just takes time and energy. 10 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 3: This is the Reform Sports Project, a podcast about restoring 11 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 3: healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through 12 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 3: education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacor from the 13 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 3: Reform Sports Podcast. My guest today is Greg Parini, had 14 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 3: men's and women swimming and diving coach at Dennison University 15 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 3: since nineteen eighty seven. Coach Parini has built one of 16 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 3: the most successful programs in the history of D three athletics, 17 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 3: highlighted by seven NCAA Division three national championships, sixteen national 18 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 3: runner up finishes, and a streak of sixty eight consecutive 19 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 3: top ten national finishes across both genders. Greg and I 20 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 3: discussed his interest in helping young people transactional verse transcendent 21 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 3: relationships with athletes and the importance of getting to know 22 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 3: each athlete. Now, before we get to the interview, we'd 23 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 3: like to dedicate this episode of Greg's mother, the Reverend 24 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 3: Barbara Dennison Parini, who passed on January thirtieth, twenty twenty four. 25 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 3: A highly accomplished priest in the Episcopal Church, Reverend Parini 26 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 3: served five different dioceses, was instrumental in developing the first 27 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 3: hospice ministry in Michigan, and worked tirelessly for battered and 28 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 3: abused women. She was a positive role model not only 29 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 3: for the community she served, but for her family as well. Man, 30 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 3: I'm humbled, I'm grateful for this gentleman. We connected, damn 31 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 3: near four or five years ago. We've spoken several times. 32 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 3: I'm really, really, really excited. He's definitely a legend. He's 33 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 3: a goat, you know, one of the best coaches NCAA 34 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 3: history for sure, the head swimming and dive coach from 35 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: Dennison coach, Greg Parini coach. 36 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 4: Thanks so much for hopping on. 37 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: Colin Nick. 38 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 2: It's good to hear from you again and have been 39 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: following you and your podcasts success and trajectory over the 40 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: last few years. You guys are doing a remarkable job. 41 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: Just honored to be a part of it. 42 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 4: Well, thank you. 43 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 3: Coaching I've had on, as you know, several coaches, you know, 44 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 3: I've had Dabo Sweeney on, I've had you know, Bob 45 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 3: Bowman on Anson Dornce on, a lot of these coaches 46 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 3: that have had sustained success. And I think our listeners 47 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 3: and I know I am fascinated with I mean, you 48 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: got three national titles, I don't know how many runners up, 49 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 3: and then you were a ridiculous swimmer in your own 50 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 3: right and had amazing success there. How do you get 51 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 3: Dennison to have such success year over year over You're 52 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 3: constantly either you're win international title, all Americans are in 53 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 3: the fight for how do you keep doing How do 54 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 3: you build that from scratch? 55 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 4: Which is what you did well? 56 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: I you know I didn't. I didn't arrive here with 57 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: an empty play. 58 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: Dennison had established a strong tradition in swimming and diving, 59 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: not to the level we've taken it now, but I 60 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: had a solid foundation to work from. And that was 61 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: one of the things that attracted me to Dennison is 62 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 2: that I saw the resources in the form of facility 63 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: and otherwise to build something. 64 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: And you know. 65 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 2: I honestly, if you'd asked me thirty seven years ago 66 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 2: when I arrived, is this the level of success we 67 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 2: would have had? And I said, well, in some ways, 68 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 2: I would tell you, yeah, I'll be surprised if we 69 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 2: don't have that level of success. But then, knowing how 70 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 2: hard this can be, sometimes I'm really surprised we've had 71 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: this much success at all. It's a it's a really 72 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: weird dynamic, but very fortunate to work in a place 73 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: like Dennison that is so supportive of what we're trying 74 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 2: to do, providing us with opportunities and resources. And you know, 75 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 2: when I first arrived, it was just pretty much me 76 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: and then it was you know, incremental improvements and resource 77 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: allocation in the form of you know, hiring assistant coaches 78 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 2: from part time to full time, then finally adding you know, 79 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: the facility about ten years ago. And so it's been 80 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 2: a well, you know, let's say, genesis of the program, 81 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: but consistent. 82 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 3: That way you said thirty seven years right, yeah, and 83 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 3: you often hear you know the cliches. You know, kids 84 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 3: are soft right here at all time, kids are soft. 85 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 3: You know which times change, right? You know, everyone changes? 86 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 3: How do you have a culture in which you as 87 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 3: a as a human, as a coach, have been able 88 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 3: to adapt because let's face it, I mean things are 89 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 3: different social media. How do you create that consistency within 90 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 3: your program is to start with the recruiting process, Like, 91 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 3: can you walk us through how you continue to have 92 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 3: the level of consistent success and buying it sounds like 93 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 3: from the athletes that you bring into your program. 94 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: Well, I think it starts with a vision and a 95 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 2: really strong reason why. I'm really fortunate. I got into 96 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 2: this game not necessarily because I wanted to develop the 97 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 2: most competitive or a highly competitive small college swimming program 98 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 2: in the country. I got into this game because I 99 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 2: really wanted to work with young people and I was 100 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 2: interested in using, you know, swimming as a vehicle through 101 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 2: which we could help young men and young women kind 102 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: of find their way. And I think that precedes everything 103 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 2: that we're trying to do competitively. Is this I think 104 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: innate strong desire to work with young people and equip 105 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 2: them for life afterwards. And I think if we do 106 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: that process and we're committed to that process in a 107 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 2: heartfelt and authentic way, it really makes the rest of 108 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 2: the job much easier because, you know, there's a consistency 109 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 2: in our messaging, there's a consistency in our team culture 110 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 2: that transcends I guess time. I mean trying to help 111 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: young men and women's that transcends time and era and generations. 112 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 2: And I think there are some unique dynamics in play 113 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: right now with the current generation of eighteen to twenty 114 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 2: two year olds. I was just talking about this with 115 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 2: some colleagues yesterday about what that means for us as educators, mentors, 116 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 2: and coaches. But I think we're fortunate here to start 117 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 2: at the foundation that we're just here to try try 118 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 2: to help young men and young women find themselves, find 119 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: out who they are, develop authentic relationships with themselves and 120 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 2: the sport that they've chosen in an effort to I guess, 121 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 2: equip them for for life after after college and life 122 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 2: after sport. And so I think that's what's allowed us 123 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: to maybe move generationally. Is that that common threat of 124 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 2: helping people, I think transcend anything that we're doing logistically 125 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 2: or strategically. 126 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: If I'm making sense. 127 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 4: I mean, it makes complete sense. 128 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 3: In fact, I've always heard it sounds like the people 129 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 3: who have the most success seem to really have that. 130 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 4: But listen. 131 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 3: I want to raise great human beings. You know, I 132 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 3: have six children, right, I want to help them be great. 133 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 3: But I'm a freaking competitor, you know what I mean? Like, like, 134 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 3: you're a competitor, So do you have to separate? Like 135 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 3: do you have to I guess what I visualize as 136 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,799 Speaker 3: you as you were telling your story about helping young people, 137 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, do you come in every you know, 138 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 3: let's say the season ends in you know, six eight 139 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 3: weeks whatever it is, and you win the national time, 140 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 3: you don't win the nationality either way, we all start 141 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 3: the next day at zero. 142 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: Right. 143 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 4: It's like if you're in sales, you have a. 144 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 3: Great month, the next day you're in first of the 145 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 3: month and you're at zero. 146 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 4: You know, whatever it is, right, you. 147 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 3: Got to compete, right, So how do you balance the 148 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 3: vision like you described of literally keeping the main thing, 149 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 3: the main thing, which is to use swimming as a 150 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 3: platform to help people, but also realize, Man, I want 151 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 3: to go I want to go win national title and if 152 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 3: there's anything wrong with that, but how do you continue 153 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 3: that balance? 154 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: Well, I this is competition, and I think competition is 155 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: good for people. I mean, I think it's important that 156 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: we take on hard things. I think it's important that 157 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: we set course on a goal, recognizing all the potential 158 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 2: trip wires and challenges that are going to come along 159 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: the way. But you know, I think the competitive environment 160 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: exposes us a little bit in a way that we're 161 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 2: not exposed necessarily in real time in other areas. I mean, 162 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 2: we're fortunate to be in a sport like swimming where 163 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 2: we have an apt salute standard, which is the Stopwatch, 164 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 2: and you know, and our swimmers are measured objectively every 165 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: single day. They don't have to always pass. You know, 166 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: I've got since played ice hockey, and so much of 167 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: their their ascension in sport was not only past, you know, 168 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: putting up good metrics, but also passing the eye test 169 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 2: with the coaches. 170 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, swimming benefits from the standpoint 171 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: of we've. 172 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 2: Got absolute standards in the form of the stop Watch 173 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 2: that expose us and basically tell us exactly who we are. 174 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 2: As I tell my team around here, there's no bsing 175 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 2: to stop watch. It's going to tell you exactly who 176 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: you are. And whenever you find yourself in an environment 177 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: like that, you know you're challenged to be at your 178 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 2: best the competitive environment brings all that out. And so 179 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: if I'm committed to helping young men and young women 180 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: move down the maturation pipe, I understand the competition and 181 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 2: the discipline and the training that comes along in order 182 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 2: to be successful on our sport is a great laboratory, 183 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: it's a it's a great experience for us, and so 184 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 2: the competition fits. 185 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: In with that growth mindset. 186 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: I don't think you can have a growth mindset without 187 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:18,239 Speaker 2: having a healthy sense of competition with yourself. 188 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: If that makes some sense. 189 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 4: I think it's great. 190 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 3: You know, the reason I always I always want to 191 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 3: dig in a little deeper, especially on a point like that, 192 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 3: is because you know, it's so easy at the youth level, 193 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 3: right to younger ages. 194 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 4: Right You're you're you're dealing with young adults. 195 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 3: You know, in some cases today, I mean, for God's sakes, 196 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 3: there's college football athletes or whatever because of COVID that 197 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 3: are twenty seven years old, you know, I mean, that's 198 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 3: what it is, and through no fault of their own, 199 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 3: it is what it is. 200 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 4: Those are damn adults. 201 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 3: So my point is when you trickle that back down 202 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 3: to the high school and middle school and youth ranks, 203 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 3: you know, it's very easy for coaches that get caught 204 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 3: up in the results, in the winning and the winning. 205 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 3: How many of those of those coaches, I don't know, 206 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 3: Maybe they all are, maybe none of them are are 207 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 3: sitting there going I really want to use this platform 208 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 3: to you know, help young people. Well maybe they also 209 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 3: want to do well so they can you know, progress 210 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 3: their career, you know, their own coaching career. So how 211 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 3: I guess I want younger coaches to hear from folks 212 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 3: like yourself who are season You don't you can never 213 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 3: coach again tomorrow. You're a Hall of famer. You know, 214 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 3: your your accolades speak for themselves. But I want to 215 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 3: take folks like you and have that mindset trickle down 216 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 3: because I think at any age, if you have that mindset, 217 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 3: you're going to get good results, putting the athlete ahead 218 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 3: of anything else. I mean, what do you think about 219 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 3: the landscape and maybe taking your approach to younger kids. 220 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 4: Do you think that you don't see enough of that? 221 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 3: Do you think it's more driven around because I know 222 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 3: you volunteer coach as well. 223 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think you know, I think as coaches, 224 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 2: we've got to make a decision whether or not the 225 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 2: kind of relationships we want with our with our athletes 226 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 2: is transactional or transcendent. And if if we're interested in 227 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 2: only generating transactional relationships with our athletes, where we see 228 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 2: athletes as a means to an end rather than an 229 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 2: end and of themselves, I think that's a path to success, 230 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 2: and I think it can. I think one of the 231 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: outcomes of that can be really good relationships. But I 232 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: also know that that, generally speaking, has a pretty short 233 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 2: shelf life if your athletes perceive themselves as only being 234 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 2: a memes to a coach's and I'm not sure that 235 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 2: there's always going to be a ton of trust there. 236 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 2: That's always my concern is. I think that when we've 237 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 2: got the best long term interest of our student athletes 238 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 2: in mind, and we're thinking in terms of developing transitional 239 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: or transcendent relationships versus simply transactional, then I think we 240 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 2: set ourselves up for longer term success. I've had the 241 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 2: good fortune to work with and talk to a lot 242 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 2: of coaches who are much better than anything I ever did, 243 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 2: and the one thing, the one common thread that they 244 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 2: have is that they genuinely enjoy interacting with their athletes. 245 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 2: Not necessarily from a transactional standpoint, but from let's say, 246 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 2: just a simply holistic caring standpoint. If you go back 247 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 2: to the John Woodens of the John Wooden clearly had 248 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 2: the love and respect of his athletes in large part 249 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 2: because of the love and respect that he showed them. 250 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 2: There's that iconic photo of him and Leuel Cinder at 251 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 2: the time later to become Kareem Abdul Jabbar walking across 252 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 2: the gym floor when Wooden was a young man and 253 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 2: el Sinder was a student. Then there's that picture juxtaposed 254 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 2: to that fifty sixty years later, when Woodin is on 255 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 2: a cane and there there's Jabbar helping him across the 256 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 2: same floor. And I think that that speaks to the 257 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 2: quality of relationships that Wooden was driving that through his 258 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 2: basketball program, and that I think that's a role model 259 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 2: for all of us. 260 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: I think all of us can do that. 261 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,719 Speaker 2: I mean, whether we're talking about the Bob Bowmans of 262 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 2: the world, who I spent a few days without in 263 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: Arizona in December, we're talking about Doc Kusman and Indiana 264 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: who for generations just nurtured those relationships. You know, I 265 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 2: think every coach has to decide at what level they 266 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 2: want to have a transactional versus a transitioning or transcendent 267 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 2: relationship with their athletes. And I just think having the 268 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 2: ladder sets us up for much longer term success and 269 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 2: if we're just simply trying to, let's say, take the 270 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 2: next step in our careers. 271 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 3: When we return, Greg and I discussed his coaching strategy 272 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 3: for his team as well as his sons. Before we 273 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: go to break, I've got another exciting announcement for you. 274 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 3: Team Snap, the leading provider of sports management software, has 275 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 3: acquired Mojo. In addition to the best in class sports 276 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 3: management solutions used by more than two million daily active 277 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 3: users and nineteen thousand sports organizations, Team Snap will now 278 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 3: offer Mojo's award winning library of games, drills, and session 279 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 3: by session support for youth coaches, as well as robust 280 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 3: interactive multimedia tools including live streaming, for families and fans 281 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 3: to engage on and off the field. The combination of 282 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 3: the two industry leading consumer tech platforms also creates the 283 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 3: most comprehensive suite of B to B tools of a 284 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 3: for youth sports organizations, including powerful content distribution capabilities to 285 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 3: drive adoption of coaching and training programs, registration tools, payment processing, 286 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 3: organizational management tools, and much more. 287 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 4: To learn more, visit www. 288 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 3: Dot teamsnap dot com and set up a free demo 289 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 3: to learn how Team snap can help your organization this season. 290 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 3: Where we left off, Greg and I were about to 291 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 3: discuss the importance of getting to know each athlete and 292 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 3: coaching them accordingly. 293 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 4: I think that's so well said it. 294 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 3: You know, you mentioned you have, you know, boys that 295 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 3: played hockey and your professionist coach. So how did you 296 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 3: juggle the balance of being dad and coach? Was it tough? 297 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 3: How did you navigate it? Because you know you're a competitor. 298 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 3: I'm sure your boys were competitors. 299 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 4: How'd you do it? 300 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 3: Well? 301 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 2: You know the thing that's remarkably I mean, I coached 302 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 2: five of our six sons. Our oldest didn't play hockey, 303 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: the next five did. And for me, I got into 304 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 2: the hockey coaching simply because it afforded me an opportunity 305 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 2: to spend time with my kids as a volunteer assistant coause 306 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 2: I played pond hockey in Michigan. I never played organized hockey. 307 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: But you know, to coach organize hockey, you got to 308 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 2: learn something about the game that goes beyond simply. 309 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: Skating on the lake. But for me, my priority. 310 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 2: In becoming a hockey coach is just to be able 311 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 2: to have some time with my kids because my days 312 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: year at the pool were pretty long. I basically leave 313 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 2: the house at four thirty AM, I don't get home 314 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 2: till seven pm, and my boys' schedules just didn't line 315 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 2: up with that very well. So if I wanted to 316 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 2: have any time with my kids, it had to be 317 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 2: at the hockey rink once I got off the pool deck. 318 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 2: So typically I'd be at the pool deck for you know, 319 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: thirteen fourteen hours, and then I'd head out to the 320 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: ice rink for a couple hours to skate with them. 321 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 2: So my priority in being their coach was really dad 322 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 2: sun time. Now, having said that, we had some pretty 323 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: successful teams. We had some high school teams that made 324 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: it all the way to the national tournament, which was exciting, 325 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: and you know, we got into you know, the quarterfinals 326 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 2: and things like that. We had some pretty good hockey 327 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 2: going on here, and my boys were as. 328 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: Competitive as they get. But I think. 329 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 2: Balancing that bad coach dynamic was really dependent on each 330 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: one of the sons. I was working with a son, Joe, 331 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 2: for instance, is you know you know he's he's cut 332 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 2: from a really competitive cloth. He's a Green Beret, he's 333 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 2: in Special Forces now, he's a self described door kicker. 334 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 2: He's the kind of kid who loved me to be 335 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 2: in his ear. 336 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 3: As a coach, you could say, you could just say 337 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 3: he's a complete badass. 338 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 2: Well, he's something else. He's a work of art, there's no. 339 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: Doubt about it. 340 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: But his younger brother of only fifteen months, it's really interesting. 341 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: For sixteen months, his younger brother, Solomon didn't want anything 342 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 2: to do with me on the on the ice or 343 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 2: on the bench. And so I had to as a 344 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 2: father and as a coach, I had to learn who 345 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: among my sons was willing to listen to me and 346 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 2: who wanted that input. So like with Joe or with Gabe, 347 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 2: or with Simon or with Ted, I could be their coach. 348 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 2: With Solomon, I really had to step away from it though, 349 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 2: simply because the relationship was The dynamics with that of 350 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 2: the relationship just didn't necessarily work for him to be 351 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 2: a better hockey player. So the quieter I was, the 352 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 2: better Solomon played. The Noisier I got with him, the 353 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 2: less effective he was because I think I just simply 354 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 2: think he got in his head and you know, he 355 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 2: had dad's voice and his said too much and it 356 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 2: just messed them up. So I think as a dad coach, 357 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 2: as a volunteer coach, you've got to read your child 358 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 2: and ask yourself, Okay, does this guy need me as 359 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 2: a dad right now? Or does he need me as 360 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 2: a coach? And they're not always the same thing, because 361 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 2: ultimately it's about putting our athletes needs before our own. 362 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 2: And I've seen way too many times over the years 363 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 2: where we have a volunteer coach is trying to relive 364 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 2: their high school club experience through their children, and I 365 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 2: don't always think that that's a particularly good combination. 366 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 4: I couldn't agree with you more so, how did you? 367 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 3: I mean, you found each personality to your own kid 368 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 3: and coached to that. 369 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 4: Wow. Any successful coach I've ever spoken to it? 370 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 3: And I know because I played for you know several, 371 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 3: but I could speak to Mike Fox, who's retired UNC 372 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 3: baseball coach. I speak about him a lot, And that 373 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 3: was the first time I really played for someone who 374 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 3: really coached everyone differently, like he knew who he needed 375 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 3: to kind of get on, who he had to love 376 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 3: on a little bit more. How do you do that 377 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 3: in a limited amount of time, particularly if you're a 378 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 3: you know, volunteer coach, because you're still got to do 379 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 3: x's and o's. 380 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 2: Well, see, yeah, here's my own personal belief on that. 381 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 2: I think, you know, for us, it starts with developing 382 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 2: that relationship with the athlete even before they arrive at 383 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 2: Dennison and we have that recruiting window that we can 384 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: work to get to know the person and things like that. 385 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: But you know, a lot of times we have coaches 386 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 2: just stepping out on the field. They inherit a team. 387 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: They don't necessarily get to pick their team. But you know, 388 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 2: for me, I think the key thing, and I learned 389 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 2: this from Doc Councilman, is that to make sure that 390 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: I slow, let's say, my mind down and practices, and 391 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 2: to listen and to ask questions and to observe. I'm 392 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 2: generally a fairly quiet coach on deck simply because I'm 393 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 2: watching how my athletes are responding to what's going on 394 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 2: around them with the training and with the stimulus that 395 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 2: we've hit them with. Frankly, I guess my own belief 396 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 2: is I think coaches do too much talking and not 397 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 2: enough listening and observing. And I think the best coaches 398 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 2: out there get to know their athletes by asking good questions, 399 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 2: by listening to those answers, and by observing their athletes. 400 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 2: Had a great conversation with Sparky Anderson, the great Cincinnati 401 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 2: res in Detroit Tiger's manager, right after nineteen eighty four. 402 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 2: I was just getting into the coaching gig, and he 403 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 2: happened to be one of doing one of those those 404 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 2: winner Tours with the Tigers promoting season ticket sales, and 405 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 2: I had a chance to talk with him as they 406 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 2: went through Lancey, Michigan, where I was in grad school, 407 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 2: and I asked him, I said, you know, Sparky, can 408 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 2: you tell me how many different managerial approaches you have 409 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 2: with your team? And he says, well, I've got forty 410 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 2: guys on my team. I've got forty different approaches. And 411 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 2: I thought that that was particularly insightful, and I thought 412 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 2: Anderson is arguably one of the best player He is 413 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: a player centered manager. The guy knew his athletes well 414 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 2: and knew what they needed. And some kids, you know, 415 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 2: some of our athletes need that proverbial hug and some 416 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 2: of them need a proverbial firmer place to land. And 417 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 2: I think as coaches, if we're going to be effective, 418 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 2: we've got to understand that every athlete walking through our 419 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 2: door has a unique history, a unique family life, a 420 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 2: unique genetic background. They're going to respond to stimuli in 421 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 2: different ways. And if we're going to be effective coaches 422 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 2: for all of our kids, not just a select few, 423 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 2: we've got to get to know who those people are 424 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: walking through the door. And that just takes time and energy. 425 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 2: And sometimes we don't have that time, and sometimes we 426 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,199 Speaker 2: don't have that energy. But I think I think the 427 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 2: time and energy we invest in those relationships correlates very 428 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 2: highly with a successful athletic experience. 429 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 3: Not to bring it back too much, but you mentioned 430 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 3: the transactional versus transcending relationship. 431 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 4: You're at the division three level. 432 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 3: I played Division three, So there's no athletic scholarships, right. 433 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 3: I don't want to go down the weeds and how 434 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 3: you know, kid, there's money available in other ways, but 435 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 3: I don't want That's not what this is about. But 436 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 3: if you look at sports that are in our face, right, 437 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 3: power five basketball, men's and women's you know football. 438 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 4: Course, it is transactional in many ways. I mean it 439 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 4: really is. 440 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 3: I mean coaches will tell you, you know, especially the 441 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 3: ones that I've had on who are at, you know, 442 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 3: the later stages of their career. A lot of them 443 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 3: are retiring it's a different game, you know, because they 444 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 3: valued the relationship so much. But it really not that 445 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 3: it's not valuable today. But it really seems like, I mean, 446 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 3: let's just call space to spade, like players and coaches 447 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 3: are kind of using each other to get whatever that 448 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 3: and I'm not that sure it could be mutually beneficial, right, 449 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 3: It's like in agreement, like we're going to do this thing. 450 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 3: Is it becoming and this just maybe a random question 451 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 3: to you. Is Division one Power five type athletic? Is 452 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 3: that just pro sports and what you do what I 453 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 3: say you do Division III and that type of is 454 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:05,959 Speaker 3: it different? 455 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 4: I mean, is it going to become different? How do 456 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 4: you see it shaking out? 457 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,719 Speaker 2: That is the sixty four thousand dollars question, Nick, And 458 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 2: I wish I had a firm answer on this one. 459 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 2: I do think with the amount of money that is 460 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 2: floating around the Power five, and again I don't live 461 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 2: in that world, but I do. I live just thirty 462 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: five miles down the street from Ohio State. 463 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, you're in the biggest brand in the world, 464 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 3: one of them exactly. 465 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 2: And I let you know, you read reports out of 466 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 2: the Columbus Dispatch that, you know, they spend thirteen million 467 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 2: dollars on nil money for the football Transfer Portal. I mean, 468 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 2: that's just mind boggling to me that. You know, I 469 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 2: think whenever you introduce that level of income in anything, 470 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 2: you know, I think you run the risk of getting 471 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 2: entirely transactional. Somebody's sharing and I didn't do a deep 472 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 2: dive on this, but somebody shared a post with me yesterday. 473 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 2: How I think the Georgia quarterback just landed a Lamborghini. 474 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Oh I saw that too. Yeah. 475 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I remember going back to the nineteen 476 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 2: eighties at Michigan State when Sam Vincent, who ended up 477 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 2: playing in the NBA, showed up in a brand new 478 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 2: car outside Jennison Fieldhouse because he had just recently signed 479 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 2: with an agent. 480 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: And what a shock that was in the media. 481 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 4: Oh burnamt you know, like it was a big deal, 482 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:22,959 Speaker 4: Like did you couldn't do it. 483 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, But I think you introduced this much money into 484 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 2: the relationships, it's bound to become increasingly transactional. And I 485 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 2: do think that that's unique. You know, I can't I 486 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 2: don't know if it's unique to Power five. I know 487 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 2: that we don't see that kind of money in D 488 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 2: three and I think that So I do think it 489 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 2: changes the nature of the relationship between coach and athlete. 490 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 2: But I also think it changes the relationship between the 491 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 2: athlete and the sport. And do we have athletes who 492 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 2: are competing purely for transactional relationships? 493 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: How far can this get me? In? 494 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 2: I understand the reality some kids putting, you know, are 495 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 2: putting their whole lives on the line in committing everything 496 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 2: they've got to becoming you know, that professional athlete. You 497 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 2: know where where athletics is transactional. And I get that 498 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 2: there's some there's some stark realities out there where people 499 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 2: are trying to get their needs and family, families and 500 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 2: needs met. 501 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: But I think you. 502 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,719 Speaker 2: Introduced that much money into any situation, you are bound 503 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 2: to get into a transactional thing. 504 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:26,959 Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm troubled by that. 505 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 2: You know, I'm not talking anything about whether it's the 506 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 2: right thing or the wrong thing. I'm just talking about 507 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 2: the impact that I think is having. And you know, 508 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 2: and I think it very easily. I think our students, 509 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 2: and our coaches, and our parents and our ads could 510 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 2: very easily get lost in that transactional process at the 511 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 2: expense of I think having the quality relationship that you 512 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 2: are looking to develop with your kids. 513 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 1: So no clear answers. 514 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 2: I don't think there's a clear path other than just 515 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 2: saying it's go get Really I think it's going to 516 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 2: get messier before it gets cleaned up. 517 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 3: Coach Parini, I can't thank you enough. Man, this has 518 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 3: been We're going to do this again. Your wisdom, your insights, 519 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 3: freaking you know, second to none, you know, entrenched and 520 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 3: getting ready to go into the postseason. 521 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 2: You know. 522 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 3: I hope you all continued to knock it out of 523 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 3: the park in and I just thank you so much 524 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 3: for joining us man. 525 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 2: Thanks Nick, it's always approviaged to talk to you. Keep 526 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 2: up the great work. You're doing such important work out there, 527 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 2: and I think getting light and air exposed to these 528 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 2: issues is really important for everyone. 529 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: So thank you. 530 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 3: That's Greg Parini, Head Men's and Women Swimming and Diving, 531 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 3: coach at Dennison University. 532 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to the Reform Sports Podcast. 533 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 3: If you've enjoyed this episode, we would appreciate it if 534 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 3: you took a moment to rate and review our podcast. 535 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,959 Speaker 3: As we work to grow our community of supporters and 536 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 3: advocates for more reform sports content, please subscribe to our 537 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 3: newsletter and blog at Reformsports. 538 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 4: Project dot com. 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