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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. He did it all. He

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Speaker 1: prosecuted rapes, sex assaults, kidnaps, murders, and he did it well.

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Speaker 1: A dad, a husband. So what happened to renowned attorney

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Speaker 1: Ray greek Herd crime stories with Nancy Grace. Let's just

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Speaker 1: start at the beginning. Take a listen to this. Initially,

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Speaker 1: you know, Patty called our office that night and reported

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Speaker 1: that Ray had gone to she thought to the Louisburg

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Speaker 1: area to do some shopping antique shopping and stuff, and

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Speaker 1: he hadn't returned home yet. Well, initially we thought maybe

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Speaker 1: his car broke down something of that nature, that he

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Speaker 1: decided to stay overnight. He wasn't feeling well, so we

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Speaker 1: went down and not we went down, but we initiated

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Speaker 1: some phone calls and stuff to state police, to Louisburg Police,

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Speaker 1: to Milton State Police, you know, telling him, hey, the

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Speaker 1: Center County disc attorney has not had has not come

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Speaker 1: home yet. We think he was in the Louisburg area

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Speaker 1: earlier today's where he was supposedly going, and they initiated

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Speaker 1: some searches down there. So how does he seemingly just

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Speaker 1: drop off the map? A well known prosecuting attorney in

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Speaker 1: good standing there in the bar, joining me an ulstar

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Speaker 1: panel to try it makes sense of the disappearance of

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Speaker 1: Ray Greek Car Joining me. Bob buner Or, former Montour

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Speaker 1: County District Attorney, former president of the Pennsylvania District Attorney's Office,

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Speaker 1: friend and very close colleague of the victim. Doctor Sherry

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Speaker 1: Swords joining us. For instance, psychologists specializing in criminal behavior

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Speaker 1: at panther mitigation dot com. And she is the author

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Speaker 1: of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and Psychology intersect. Boy

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Speaker 1: do we need her. Lisa Daddio, former police lieutenant in

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Speaker 1: Haven Police Department, Senior lecturer and director of the Center

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Speaker 1: for Advanced Policing with me right now, and let's go

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Speaker 1: to her first. Rebecca Knight joining us her podcast, Final

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Speaker 1: Argument The Disappearance of District Attorney Ray Greekar and you

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Speaker 1: can also find her at Ray Greek dot com. Rebecca Knight,

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Speaker 1: let's just start at the beginning. There are a lot

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Speaker 1: of questions, a lot of speculations surrounding the disappearance of

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Speaker 1: Ray Greek are really in the prime of his life,

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Speaker 1: at the height of his legal career. But let's start

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Speaker 1: at the beginning. You know, Rebecca, when cases falter and

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Speaker 1: they go so called cold. That's what you do. You

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Speaker 1: start at the beginning, the day the person disappeared, Where

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Speaker 1: they were last seen, was the home ransacked, was the

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Speaker 1: car wrecked? All of the elementary building blocks that start

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Speaker 1: an investigation. And that's where we're starting right now in

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Speaker 1: the unusual disappearance of Greek Car. Back to you, Rebecca Knight,

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Speaker 1: tell me about the day he goes missing. The day

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Speaker 1: Ray greek Car went missing, they didn't find his car

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Speaker 1: for thirty six hours, and one of the things I

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Speaker 1: wanted to look at was what was happening during those

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Speaker 1: thirty six hours before the police finally found his car. Okay,

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Speaker 1: pause right there. I hate to interrupt, Rebecca, but when

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Speaker 1: I say start at the beginning, I mean really the beginning,

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Speaker 1: not thirty six hours after the beginning. Now, you, being

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Speaker 1: such an incredible investigative writer and reporter, are going straight

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Speaker 1: to the heart of the matter. But for those of

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Speaker 1: us lud eyes that like to start with who, what where? Hawaiian? When?

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Speaker 1: What day did he go missing? April fifteen, two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five, Tax Day. That's how I always remember the

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Speaker 1: day that Ray Greencarr went missing. It was Tax day.

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Speaker 1: And let me ask you this, Rebecca Knight, what time

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Speaker 1: of the day was he last known to be alive

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Speaker 1: or was seen? You can time that based on a

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Speaker 1: phone call, a message, a text, a surveillance video at

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Speaker 1: the grocery store, anything. He made a phone call to

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Speaker 1: his girlfriend, Patty Fornicola, from his county issued telephone at

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Speaker 1: around eleven fifteen that morning on Friday, April fifteenth, And

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Speaker 1: based on that phone call to his then girlfriend, where

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Speaker 1: was he and what was he doing? Ray Greekar was

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Speaker 1: traveling east one ninety two in Pennsylvania. He was going

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Speaker 1: through an area called Brush Valley in a very very

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Speaker 1: rural area of Pennsylvania. He was in his Mini Cooper,

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Speaker 1: his red and white Mini Cooper, and he was traveling

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Speaker 1: down one ninety two on his way to Louisburg, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: Why was he going to Louisbourg, Well, no one knows

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Speaker 1: why he was going to Lewisburg, but we do know

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Speaker 1: that he had been to Louisbourg many, many times before.

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Speaker 1: Very very interesting to me, guys. Joining me is reporter

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Knight, and she is a creator of a podcast,

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Speaker 1: Final Argument, The Disappearance of District Attorney Ray Greekar and

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Speaker 1: you can find at Ray Greekar dot com. You know,

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Speaker 1: I want to go to you, Bob Buner, a former

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Speaker 1: district attorney passed president of the DA's associate And that's

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Speaker 1: not easy to attain, but more important as it relates

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Speaker 1: to this moment, friend and colleague of Ray Greekar. You know, Bob,

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Speaker 1: how far was his home from? Was it Lewisburg where

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Speaker 1: he was traveling or listen, It's approximately from bilf On

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Speaker 1: the county seat of Center County where he was DA

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Speaker 1: to Louisbourg, approximately sixty miles, basically going over mountains and

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Speaker 1: forests between the two communities. And hold on, hold on,

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Speaker 1: hold on, because I'm going very slowly. And Bob, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how you prosecuted all your cases, but I

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Speaker 1: can tell you this. When the medical examiners saw me

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Speaker 1: pulling up and my beat up Honda, I'm sure they

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Speaker 1: all wanted to hide beneath their chairs because I would

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Speaker 1: have to take apart every single sentence of their Latin

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Speaker 1: jargon no offense shorts but to make sense that. So

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Speaker 1: let me just understand what you just said. So very often,

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Speaker 1: according to Rebecca Knight, and for no apparent reason Ray

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Speaker 1: Greekr would travel sixty miles through forest and over a

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Speaker 1: mountain to get to is it lewis Burger, Lewiston, Lewisburg?

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Speaker 1: Do we have any idea because, for instance, when I

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Speaker 1: was living in Atlanta, I would very often, if someone

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Speaker 1: could pull up my navigation system, drive ninety miles south

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Speaker 1: on the interstate. Why because I was going to my hometown.

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Speaker 1: I'd make it to check on my parents or my

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Speaker 1: parents home. And there was a reason for that. But

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Speaker 1: I find this very interesting. Why is Ray Greekr traveling

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Speaker 1: over a mountain three four or sixty miles could be

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Speaker 1: two hours, depending on the mountain. Why what was in

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Speaker 1: Lewisburg actually antique shops? Nancy? There are several well known

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Speaker 1: antique places that are kind of co and Ray had

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Speaker 1: an interest in certain types of specially antique cameras, so

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Speaker 1: he would go to a pub. Okay, stop, stop everything.

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Speaker 1: I'm always surprised, pleasantly and thrilled when I learned something

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Speaker 1: I haven't already gleaned from my research and investigation. I

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Speaker 1: knew he was into antiquing, I did not know that

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Speaker 1: specialty time stories with Nancy Grace. This is opening up

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Speaker 1: a whole plevera of possibilities for me, Bob inga, because

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize he was that deep into the antiquing world.

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Speaker 1: And you know how they haggle over prices, and if

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Speaker 1: you're really into something like some vintage camera from nineteen whatever,

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Speaker 1: you could go down all sorts of rabbit holes trying

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Speaker 1: to get that and come in contact with a lot

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Speaker 1: of people that could be scamming you. That's true. I

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Speaker 1: think he had a pretty sophisticated knowledge of anti cameras,

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Speaker 1: the polaroids, and the codacts of the day, and so

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Speaker 1: I don't know that he could be scammed because he

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Speaker 1: was pretty astute in things involving his interest in antiques. Bob,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.

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Speaker 1: I mean someone, for instance, one thing I cover a lot.

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Speaker 1: I even write about it in my knee book, Don't

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Speaker 1: Be a Victim PS. All the money goes to National

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Speaker 1: Center Missing Exported Children, if you want to pick it up, Bob.

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Speaker 1: But about buying or doing business online, because I've covered

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Speaker 1: so many cases where people go to, for instance, a

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Speaker 1: marketplace online and then they show up across town to

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Speaker 1: get the item and bam, they get killed and rob

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Speaker 1: raped whole shebang. So I'm not saying he's not astute.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying that. I'm saying there's a possibility he was

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Speaker 1: led down a rabbit hole thinking he was going to

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Speaker 1: get X and when they got there, all he ended

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Speaker 1: up getting was the wrong end of a gun barrel. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What we know, Nancy, is that approximately two pm on

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Speaker 1: April fifteenth, he had parked his mini Morris Cooper by

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Speaker 1: the river bridge that goes over the Susquehanna River into Louisbourg. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Bobby and her another thing. You know, I know you

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Speaker 1: hate the interruptions because you're used to having control over

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Speaker 1: that whole courtroom and nobody dares interrupt your opening your clothing, right,

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Speaker 1: But you know they did not teach me shorthand in

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Speaker 1: law school. So slow ady, al buddy, Okay, two fifteen pm,

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Speaker 1: April fifteen, Go ahead, I've gotten that far. He is

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Speaker 1: standing on a sidewalk outside as many Morris Cooper. Three

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Speaker 1: individuals working in a museum right across the street from

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Speaker 1: where he had parked his car observed him, and their

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Speaker 1: statements to the police indicated that it appeared to them

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Speaker 1: that he was waiting for someone, and in fact had

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Speaker 1: actually moved his car a couple of spaces away from

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Speaker 1: where it initially parked, as if to make a parking

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Speaker 1: spot available for someone else. And that's what we turned

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Speaker 1: in here. Yeah, yes, Rebecca, I was just going to

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Speaker 1: come to you. Do we know who he was meeting. Well,

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Speaker 1: one of my witnesses that I interviewed said, and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to pick up the scene here where Bob Jess

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Speaker 1: talked about him being in that park across the street

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Speaker 1: from the museum. One of my witnesses, and I spoke

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Speaker 1: with her several times, and she told the police this

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Speaker 1: that it looked like She said, he looked like he

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Speaker 1: was on a cell phone, walking back and forth and

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Speaker 1: gesturing with his arms, sometimes wildly. In other words, what's

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Speaker 1: going on? When I got the copy of the case file,

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Speaker 1: I looked at his cell phone records for his county

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Speaker 1: issued cell phone, and there were no other numbers on there,

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Speaker 1: of course, that he had made that day, which tells

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Speaker 1: me that this woman may have seen him using a

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Speaker 1: burner phone. Okay, because I can phone stop again, Rebecca Knight,

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Speaker 1: did you speak to the witness face to face? Yes?

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Speaker 1: I did you looked in their faces they were telling

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Speaker 1: you this. Most everyone I talked to I would go

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Speaker 1: to see them because I have to look at people

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Speaker 1: in the eye. I've got to see their faces because,

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Speaker 1: as you know, Bobyner, all your years as the Montour

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Speaker 1: County District Attorney, a lot of times and I know

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Speaker 1: other people will mark this, don't care. You can tell

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Speaker 1: when somebody's lying. Oh absolutely, Now I find that really

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Speaker 1: very interesting because I mean doctor Sherry Schwartz forensics psychologists

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Speaker 1: specializing in criminal behavior defense attorney would argue to a

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Speaker 1: jury just because it would have thought the person was

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Speaker 1: on their phone walking back and forth. Gesticulating does in

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Speaker 1: no way mean a burner phone. But you know what,

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Speaker 1: I think a jury would disagree. And when someone is

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Speaker 1: wildly gesticulating, I am moving their hands or arms around

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Speaker 1: as they speak or not speak. Moving their hands and

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Speaker 1: arms around. That tells me they were communicating with someone

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Speaker 1: and they were agitated. So we've got him at two

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Speaker 1: fifteen pm the day he goes missing and taking in

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Speaker 1: another town an hour and a half, two hours away,

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Speaker 1: angry or upset and gesticulating. That tells me a lot

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Speaker 1: that has never come to light on a national platform

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Speaker 1: to my knowledge, Rebecca and Bob, what do you make

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Speaker 1: of at Sherry? This is very important, especially if the

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Speaker 1: witnesses deemed credible. Right if a jury here's this witness

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Speaker 1: testify and witnesses are generally truth telling, if they have

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Speaker 1: no vested interest in the outcome of a case, then

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Speaker 1: this is very important information, you know. And he was

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Speaker 1: noticeable clearly, not just because of the behavior, but as

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Speaker 1: Rebecca points out in her podcast, the car was very rare, right,

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Speaker 1: so if he's near the car, people might notice him.

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Speaker 1: And then if he's having this conversation, I mean we

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Speaker 1: all sort of engage in that little bit of voyeurism

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Speaker 1: in public. Right when you see somebody flailing their arms

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Speaker 1: and maybe you can even hear them, but they appear agitated,

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Speaker 1: you think, oh, they're having an argument with somebody, right,

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Speaker 1: So this is observable behavior that indicates that something's up

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Speaker 1: with Ray Greek car and so, and it's troubling if

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Speaker 1: there's no evidence of that call at that time right

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Speaker 1: on exactly those Rebecca, those phone records, and they're not

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Speaker 1: there no other calls. Guys, take a listen again to

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Speaker 1: the first lead investigator on the case. This is Darryl

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Speaker 1: Zakane and he's speaking to penline dot com. Listen, are

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Speaker 1: the license plate for it? You know, and basically we

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Speaker 1: started a missing person's report, you know, look for this gentleman.

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Speaker 1: When I got in in the morning, it was the

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Speaker 1: first I had heard about it. Is when I got

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Speaker 1: to work that morning and the chief and I he

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Speaker 1: told me about it and said, come on, let's go

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Speaker 1: talk to Patty. And from there we went up to

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Speaker 1: see Patty and things just progressed with them where you know,

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Speaker 1: we started a series of different searches over of course

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Speaker 1: a period of time. Then you know, on what we

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Speaker 1: were going to do. I think initially we're holding out

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Speaker 1: hope that you know that Ray had just gott iil

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Speaker 1: had decided to stay overnight to do some more shopping

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Speaker 1: and his cell phone went dead or something and he

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Speaker 1: didn't get hold of Patty and he would show up

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Speaker 1: in the morning and stuff. So some confusion about the

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Speaker 1: night before, but that in no way in the gates

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Speaker 1: where he was at two fifteen pm the day he's

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Speaker 1: last seen a lot. But listen to our friend Lester

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Speaker 1: Holt at Dateline NBC. When Ray Greekar disappeared in April

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five. He had everything to live for.

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Speaker 1: He'd learned how to kick back a bit outside of

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Speaker 1: the office. The Ray I knew great sense of humor.

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Speaker 1: You had to know him to see it. Sometimes it

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Speaker 1: was dry, it was compassionate, just a wonderful person. Ray

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Speaker 1: and girlfriend Patty loved to take long drives together and

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Speaker 1: go antiquing. We mostly bought dishes because they were small.

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Speaker 1: The house is small, so we had to stick to

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Speaker 1: small things, but dishes or books. Ray was an avid reader.

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Speaker 1: Ray had served as District attorney of Center County for

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Speaker 1: nearly twenty years, and he had a sterling reputation. Bob

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Speaker 1: being her longtime friend and colleague of Ray. Greek car.

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Speaker 1: How does the name Jerry Sandusky fit into this scenario.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a very much of in one sense,

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Speaker 1: a red herring Nancy, because what happened in two eleven,

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Speaker 1: Jerry Sandusky was arrested for child abuse and the world

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Speaker 1: media descended into Center County and when they got there,

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Speaker 1: they discovered, hey, there's a missing district attorney from two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five, who back in nineteen ninety eight did

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Speaker 1: investigate a charge of child abuse against Jerry Sandusky, but

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Speaker 1: felt there was not enough information or evidence to have

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Speaker 1: an arrest made. So naturally people started speculating, well, the

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Speaker 1: Jerry Sandusky case and the disappearance of Ray Greek are

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Speaker 1: somehow connected. I have never seen that connection, and I

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Speaker 1: have studied this case for years Prime Stories with Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: So I guess the connection straight out to renowned investigator,

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Speaker 1: Lisa M. Daddio, former lieutenant you have in police senior lecturer,

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Speaker 1: I guess the theory regarding the famed or let me

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Speaker 1: say infamous coach Jerry Sanduski, the theory would be that

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Speaker 1: Ray greekar knew about the child molestation, well the molestation charges,

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Speaker 1: and did nothing, and that someone came and sought revenge

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Speaker 1: on him. I guess that would be the working theory. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you can make that stretch. For me,

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Speaker 1: it seems a little bizarre strange to make that type

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Speaker 1: of connection. If he had reviewed something, you know, several

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Speaker 1: years prior and had declined prosecution for whatever reason, why

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Speaker 1: is this now coming up years later when he disappears.

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Speaker 1: You know, That's something I've argued to juries many, many times,

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Speaker 1: Lisa Daddio, because very often a defense attorney or really

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Speaker 1: someone that hasn't tried a lot of cases or investigated

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Speaker 1: a lot. They actually believe movie scripts and books and novels.

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Speaker 1: They think that it's very common for there to be

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Speaker 1: revenge killings. Well maybe in the mafia. Maybe in the mafia, Okay,

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Speaker 1: definitely in the mafia there are revenge killings. But in

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Speaker 1: real life, I mean, think this thing through. If you

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Speaker 1: were angry because Jerry Sandusky raped your son or molested

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Speaker 1: your child, why not kill Jerry Sandusky? Why go dig

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Speaker 1: up ray Greekar and the home he was he had

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Speaker 1: there and follow him when he's antiquing and kill him

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Speaker 1: and dispose of his body. That that doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: Why not kill Sandusky? Well that yeah, it doesn't investigation.

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Speaker 1: What is this, Rebecca or Lisa? This is Rebecca? Okay,

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Speaker 1: go ahead. Well I didn't think that this. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I think he was murdered. I think it was a

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Speaker 1: professional hit. I think that it was not a revenge killing.

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Speaker 1: But what I do think and I think that the

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Speaker 1: evidence from the case file, together with all of the

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Speaker 1: interviews I did through the years and talked with hundreds

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Speaker 1: of people, and some people that the police never even

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Speaker 1: talked to was that I put together a picture of

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Speaker 1: merch for me, and I believe that Ray Greecar was

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Speaker 1: working on the biggest case of his life. I think

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Speaker 1: he was getting ready to charge Jerry Sandusky, penn State

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Speaker 1: University and the Second Mile Charity when he disappeared. That's

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Speaker 1: what my podcast is about, you know, Rebecca Night. I've

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Speaker 1: always argued there is no coincidence in criminal law right

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Speaker 1: his very in depth investigation, And it must be said

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Speaker 1: about Ray Greekcar. You don't win jury trials because you

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Speaker 1: go in and show both the jury. Unless you're Johnny Cochran,

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Speaker 1: you usually win jury trials. And this is an old thing,

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Speaker 1: but it's true. It's ninety nine percent perspiration one inspiration.

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Speaker 1: That is how you win or succeed at anything. With

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Speaker 1: the proper preparation, if you're willing to put in the time,

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Speaker 1: you will most likely succeed. Would you agree, Bob Uner

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Speaker 1: that gree Car had a reputation of literally crossing every tay,

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Speaker 1: dotting every eye now never unprepared when he went into court, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: Ray gree Car was the most meticulous prosecutor probably in

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Speaker 1: the entire Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. He left no detail on examined.

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Speaker 1: He always asked law enforcement officials in the case the

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Speaker 1: next question, and he anticipated not just his direct examination,

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Speaker 1: but what would be subjects on cross examination, prepared his

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Speaker 1: witnesses at great length. So, yes, that was the Ray

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Speaker 1: gree Car that I know, and I think his reputation

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Speaker 1: was sterling in that regard. Preparation was the key to him.

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Speaker 1: He was something Bob, Yes, I gotta tell you something,

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Speaker 1: and I've told it to many many a litigation class.

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Speaker 1: You have to think about not only what you're going

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Speaker 1: to do, but what they're going to do and how

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Speaker 1: you're going to counter it. You have to prepare as

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Speaker 1: a prosecutor not only your case, but you have to

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Speaker 1: anticipate and prepare your attack on the defense case. And

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Speaker 1: you're just saying that, I'm imagining all the man hours

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Speaker 1: he put into preparing these cases. That's exactly right. So, Bob,

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Speaker 1: can you imagine the irritation of the Sandusky team when

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Speaker 1: they've got this meticulous prosecutor digging up every possible witness,

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Speaker 1: leaving no stone unturned and finding out a lot of

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Speaker 1: things they wish you didn't know. Well, I think that's

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Speaker 1: one of the things that is somewhat unknown how far

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Speaker 1: in the case file Ray was getting. He was very

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Speaker 1: frustrated back in nineteen ninety eight when a young child

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Speaker 1: had been in a shower with Sandusky and he went

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Speaker 1: home with wet hair and the mother inquired what happened,

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Speaker 1: and the child told her mother, who then called the police,

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Speaker 1: and Ray, Greekar and the state college and university police

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Speaker 1: tried to set a trap for Sandusky, but it didn't work. So,

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Speaker 1: knowing Ray, that would have been incredibly frustrating, and he

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Speaker 1: would have worked to figure out a way to do

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Speaker 1: more investigating and find some of the areas where Sandusky

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Speaker 1: would be involved with children and explore that. And one

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Speaker 1: was called the Second Mile, a charity Sandusky had started

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Speaker 1: that was ostensibly to design for children from single family

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Speaker 1: homes to be placed in special programs or go to

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Speaker 1: special events to help them improve their lives. So we

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Speaker 1: now know that that was a cover for Sandusky, so

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Speaker 1: it was table. Let me clarify the argument that many

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Speaker 1: people have made that greek Car was shot out of

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Speaker 1: revenge because he did not go forward the Sandusky investigation

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Speaker 1: is the furthest thing from the truth that he was

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Speaker 1: working to sting Sandusky would you agree, Yes, Nancy, I

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Speaker 1: would agree with that, and I think I don't see

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Speaker 1: that anybody connected with the victims of Sandusky would have

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Speaker 1: had any revenge factor at Grant greek Car. First of all,

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Speaker 1: many of them were young, and in two thousand and five,

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Speaker 1: hardly any would have even reached their eighteenth birthday. Absolutely correct.

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Speaker 1: So I want to just clarify that for all of

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Speaker 1: the haters out there that have attacked greet Car for

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Speaker 1: not pursuing Sandusky, he was, in fact pursuing Sandusky like

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Speaker 1: a bat out of hell. Take a listen now to

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Speaker 1: our cut four. This is reporter Geary Centersen w j ACTV.

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Speaker 1: Almost a decade later, many here still remember when they

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Speaker 1: first heard. I got a call. I was actually up

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Speaker 1: in State College at a breakfast and I called that

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Speaker 1: morning and Sheriff Denny Now came in and handed me

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Speaker 1: a note that said Ray greek Car's messy, and I

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Speaker 1: looked up at him and he said, I'm not kidding,

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Speaker 1: And so it began April fifteenth, two thousand and five.

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Speaker 1: I thought something bad happened to him, because Ray was

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Speaker 1: a very, if you will quote, predictable individual, long time

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Speaker 1: Center County District attorney Great Greekar and greek Car was

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Speaker 1: an exceptional prosecutor. I spent thirty five years in government

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Speaker 1: and worked around hundreds of attorneys, and he was the

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Speaker 1: best trial attorney I ever worked. Becomes a missing person

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Speaker 1: and eventually a worldwide mystery case. Anyone involved in this

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Speaker 1: case has a theory. My secretary has a theory. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you have a theory. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Theories series series. It sounds like reading the tea leaves,

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Speaker 1: which most people don't believe in. But these theories are

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Speaker 1: founded in reality, including a persistence and trying to catch

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Speaker 1: child molester renowned coach Jerry Sandusky. Now take a listen

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Speaker 1: now to my friend Jenekassaris with me at Cheln what

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Speaker 1: happened to Ray Grey Carr? Straight out to Jenkassaris, Jane,

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Speaker 1: what's the latest, Nancy. The latest is that there have

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Speaker 1: been no suspected sightings of Ray gree Car since he vanished,

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Speaker 1: since he went missing. But the minute people think they

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Speaker 1: see him, he's gone. So the question is, could this man,

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Speaker 1: this elective district attorney, still be alive around the country somewhere,

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Speaker 1: taken on a new identity, or is he the victim

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Speaker 1: of a homicide or even a suicide. Back to you,

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Speaker 1: Bob buner Or, former prosecutor, a longtime friend of Ray

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Speaker 1: greek Car. I've never believed the suicide or the living

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Speaker 1: under a false name theory. Now, Olivia and Eaton John's boyfriend. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think he's alive in Mexico, wearing a floppy hat

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Speaker 1: and having a margarite right now, Ray Greecar, No, there's

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Speaker 1: no reason he would assume a new identity, nor would

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Speaker 1: he commit suicide. You're exactly right, Nancy. First of all,

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Speaker 1: the idea that he walked away, he could have done

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Speaker 1: the rest of two thousand and five, not shown up

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Speaker 1: at the office at all, and still collected his paycheck.

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Speaker 1: And at the end of two thousand and five, with

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Speaker 1: his retirement, he was going to get a huge pension

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Speaker 1: again never touched. The FBI examined his finances for three

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Speaker 1: years prior to when he went missing. They can only

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Speaker 1: not account for fifteen thousand dollars over three years, or

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Speaker 1: one hundred bucks a week, and none of his bank accounts,

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Speaker 1: none of his credit cards have been touched since April fifteen,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five, So how he would be able

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Speaker 1: to do all these things that these theorists have is

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Speaker 1: really preposterous. And secondly, with suicide. Ray was fifty nine

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Speaker 1: years old, in good physical and mental health. He had

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Speaker 1: plans for retirement. We spoke about his plans to travel

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Speaker 1: the national parks with his girlfriend Patty for Nicola. He

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Speaker 1: wanted to see his daughter Laura out in the Seattle,

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Speaker 1: Washington area. This is a guy that had a plan

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Speaker 1: for his future, with no known stressors in his life

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Speaker 1: and a healthy pension to take care of himself well.

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Speaker 1: Not only was he renowned as a prosecutor. Why would

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Speaker 1: you leave your family or commit suicide leaving them behind

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Speaker 1: in the dust. Let's cut forward to our cut two.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Lester Holt at Dateline NBC. Often,

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Speaker 1: I would say three to four times a week. We

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Speaker 1: were in pretty regular contact. In that spring of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five, Ray was fifty nine, just eight months

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Speaker 1: away from retirement, and he was ready for it. He

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Speaker 1: was already starting to cut back on his workload, already

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Speaker 1: starting to cut back on his workload other than the

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Speaker 1: staying he was planning on famed coach Jerry Sandusky. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen again to our cut one. This is Lester Holt.

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Speaker 1: He was the district attorney in Pennsylvania Center County, working

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Speaker 1: in the postcard pretty town of bellefont penn State is

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Speaker 1: just down the road. It's a powerful presence in this

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Speaker 1: central Pennsylvania neighborhood. Back in April two thousand and five,

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Speaker 1: Ray Greekar had served a better part of five terms

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Speaker 1: and wrecked up a stellar reputation. But it's the nature

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Speaker 1: of the job that you do difficult things, you make

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Speaker 1: difficult choices. He was the most serious prosecutor I've ever met.

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Speaker 1: Bob Buhner was Ray's friend. He's the DA in neighboring

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Speaker 1: Montour County. He met Ray Greecar almost two decades ago,

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Speaker 1: and over the years the two traded shop talk whenever

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Speaker 1: they could. Did he go with his gut? Did he

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Speaker 1: shoot from the hip or was he like Hume? To

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Speaker 1: all the right buttons and then get to the answer.

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Speaker 1: He was the guy that always had the next question,

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Speaker 1: what about this? Did you consider that? He was the

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Speaker 1: most serious guy, most ethical guy. To Lisa Daddyo for

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Speaker 1: a police lieutenant in Haven, PD, Senior lecturer, Lisa, it

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Speaker 1: has happened in the past where prosecutors have been killed

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Speaker 1: because of what they're doing in court. It's more often

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Speaker 1: that a prosecutor like what happened to me, and we'll

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Speaker 1: get your tire slid or your windows broken in your car,

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Speaker 1: maybe your mailbox knocked down or your door kicked in

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Speaker 1: during a very heated trial. That happens. But killing a

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Speaker 1: prosecutor or killing a cup an investigator, it doesn't happen

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Speaker 1: a lot. But it does happen. Yeah, it does happen,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we can't ignore it that. Oh, it's

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Speaker 1: so rare, it's impossible it does happen, and so especially

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Speaker 1: with the fact that he was working on this incredibly

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Speaker 1: high profile case. He had previously worked on high profile cases,

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00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: got convictions, his reputation is just unbelievable that it's possible

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Speaker 1: that he was murdered by either somebody connected to a

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Speaker 1: previous case or something to do with Sandusky. Well do

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Speaker 1: you think, Rebecca Night, I mean, you're the one that

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Speaker 1: has created this podcast, asked final argument the disappearance a

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Speaker 1: district attorney Ray Greekar, What do you think? My theory

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Speaker 1: is that Ray Greekar was working on building a case

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Speaker 1: against Jerry Sandusky Penn State University and the Second Mile Charity,

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Speaker 1: and that he got too close and he found out

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Speaker 1: too much and he was about ready to charge because

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Speaker 1: Ray Gricard didn't charge cases unless he had what he

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Speaker 1: called the shot through the heart of the wild war.

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Speaker 1: This is what I was told by one of his

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Speaker 1: colleagues and tears. And another thing, a former district attorney

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Speaker 1: who was a longtime friend and colleague mister Greekar, told

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Speaker 1: me that about a year before Ray Greekar went missing,

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Speaker 1: he and Ray Gricar were having lunch in State College

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Speaker 1: and after lunch they went for a walk down the

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Speaker 1: street and Greekar pointed out a man up ahead and

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Speaker 1: he said, you see that guy up there, and this

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Speaker 1: other gentleman said yeah, what so what he said, that's

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Speaker 1: Jerry Sandusky and he said, oh, yeah, the coach. He said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's also a gd pedophile and I'm going to put

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Speaker 1: him away if it's the last thing I do. That

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Speaker 1: was a year before he went missing. And this was

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Speaker 1: told to me by a seasoned prosecutor who is a

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Speaker 1: new Ray Greecar for decades, and we're friends. So by

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Speaker 1: being or what about it, what do you think? I

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Speaker 1: actually have a different take on things I believe that

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Speaker 1: Ray Greekar had prosecuted a member of the Hells Angels

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Speaker 1: chapter of Westchester County, New York, who had been in

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Speaker 1: federal prison with a twenty years sentence, but after five

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Speaker 1: years was miraculously released from prison and ended up in

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Speaker 1: a very remote part of Center County. So we clearly

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Speaker 1: witnessed protection program. And this Hell's Angel biker had viciously

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Speaker 1: assaulted a farmer out in the rural area of Center County,

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Speaker 1: prosecuted him, convicted him, and I believe he was the

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Speaker 1: person who led the revenge. We know that the US

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Speaker 1: marshals in the FBI reached out to Ray Greekar asking

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Speaker 1: him for leniency because this Hell's Angel man had done

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Speaker 1: some favors for the federal government and helped convict other

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Speaker 1: motorcycle bikers, and I believe that that's the person who

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Speaker 1: was involved in ordering the hit on Ray Greekar. If

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Speaker 1: you know or think you know any information regarding the

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Speaker 1: disappearance a family man and prosecutor Ray Greekar, please call

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Speaker 1: eight one four six nine six six one hundred repeat

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Speaker 1: eight one four six nine six six one hundred. Nancy

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Speaker 1: Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend,