1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: So actually he said, it's okay if we record the 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: whole thing. So he's got all of our IDs and 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: he's putting our information into his phone while he's holding 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: my passport, your ID, and our driver's Seche eight, it's 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: about eleven am. And what you just heard happens to 6 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: us just minutes after. Colombian American reporter Luis Gaio picks 7 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: me up from my hotel in Middeyan. He's getting ready 8 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: to go out on our day of reporting. And I 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: don't think when we were here in nineteen eighty nine 10 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: that we ever got stopped by the police kind of 11 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: for a regular check. I think we would have had 12 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: a heart attack if that had happened in nineteen eighty nine. 13 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 2: There's a thing in Colombia with this type of searches. 14 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: Everything's done in the name of security. 15 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: That was really strange for me, Louise, because when I 16 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: was down in Madean thirty years ago, there was a 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: lot of violence, but I don't remember this kind of 18 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: high intensity police presence about that. 19 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, so before there wasn't much police presence. I mean, 20 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: the security levels were not as great as they are 21 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: right now. I mean some places were kind of always. 22 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: So it's like they like seeing the police. 23 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 2: For a lot of Colombians, the presence of police gives 24 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 2: them a sense of security because there's that contrast of 25 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 2: the times of prascoad. 26 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: And most people think they know about Medeyin now because 27 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: of Narco's that Netflix series that portrays Pablo Scobad as 28 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: both a bloody psychopath as well as a very loving 29 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: family man. But you and I know that there's a 30 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: lot more to the story of Medeyin. From Futuro Media, 31 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: it's Latin the USA. I'm Maria Ino Jossa. For this story, 32 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: I asked Luis Gaiu to meet me in Midigan. He's 33 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: a Colombian American journalist and a producer. I wanted to 34 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: spend some time in the city in order to understand 35 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: what's been happening there since my last visit in the 36 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: late nineteen eighties, because a lot has happened in just 37 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: thirty years. Midean has transformed itself from being the cocaine 38 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: capital of the world and the epicenter of Columbia's armed 39 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: conflict into a place that's often described now as a 40 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: model city. In fact, it's been voted the most innovative 41 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: city in the world. And with this rise of Narcomania 42 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: on television, there's also a new kind of global attention 43 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: that's being paid on Median Sometimes it's unwanted, and it 44 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: really focuses on the city's bloody past. And for you, Louise, 45 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: this means a lot. 46 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 2: Yes, it's personal. I mean everything that happened in Menaging 47 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: and anything that happened in Colombia during those times affected 48 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 2: the rest of my family's lives and my life. Let's 49 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 2: start back in nineteen eighty nine. The Medigian cartel was booming. 50 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,239 Speaker 2: The cartel had declared a full and more on the 51 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: Colembic state. So there were car bombs in the cities, 52 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: especially Menaging. There were assassinations of police officers. It was 53 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: a very tumultuous time. 54 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 3: Medejan, Colombia is about a six hour plane ride from 55 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 3: New York City. Medeyin, known as the city of Eternal Spring, 56 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 3: now lives under the constant shadow of violence. Except for 57 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 3: be Root, it has the highest murder rate of any 58 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 3: city anywhere. 59 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: That's my voice. When I was a younger journalist and 60 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: I went down to Middiyen to do that documentary along 61 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: with a collaborative piece with Rolling Stone Magazine. 62 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: And while this is going on, I was a small 63 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: boy and my father was a captain in Columbus National 64 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: Police working in the anti arcotics units. So everything that 65 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 2: was happening in the country, especially in managing, was affecting 66 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: every aspect of our lives, because in a sense, my 67 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 2: father was the biggest enemy of the narcos. 68 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: So what do you remember as a little kid, like, 69 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: what are your What are some of the earliest memories 70 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: that you have about the work that your dad did. 71 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: I didn't have babysitters, not my own bodyguard. 72 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: What you had your own bodyguard. 73 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: And then my brother had his own bodyguard. We would 74 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: go to school in two different vehicles that were identical, 75 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 2: just in case they would attack one of them, they 76 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: would be a fifty fifty chance we would survive. We're 77 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 2: evacuated in the middle of the night via helicopter. 78 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: Why does your dad decide to get involved in anti 79 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: narcotics work in the nineteen eighties, which was probably the 80 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 1: most dangerous field that you could think about working in. 81 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 2: Oh he was a total idealist. He had this patriotic 82 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 2: sense that he could do something for the country to 83 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 2: make it a better place to defeat the criminals, to 84 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: bring back order to the country, to fight this war. 85 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: He loved this country so much and he believed that 86 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 2: he could make it a better place for everyone for 87 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: us to live. One day, a note written in the 88 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: newspaper clippings came to our house. It said, Captain, we're 89 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 2: going to get you hurt to the most your kids. 90 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: I was about four years old, my brother must have 91 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 2: been about six years old. So we had our own 92 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 2: bedrooms at our house, but we were all sleep in 93 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: the same bedroom with my parents, and the bedroom had 94 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 2: a door to the patio and a ladder just in case, 95 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 2: you know, we were attacked or anything happened. That just 96 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: made it seem like we were having slumber parties every night. 97 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 2: So it was kind of fun. 98 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: So as a little kid, do you remember the first 99 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: time you heard the name Pablos Cobad. 100 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 2: I remember the name, and I remember also thinking when 101 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: I was in Bovada, thinking that Bablo'scobar was going to 102 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: come after us for some reason, they're being scared of them. 103 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: And also when we lived in Bobada, he put a 104 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 2: bomb like five blocks away at a shopping mall and 105 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 2: our windows were shattered. 106 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: By this point, Bablos Cobad had declared a full blown 107 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: war on the Colombian state, and the Colombian government had 108 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: just passed an ext tradition agreement with the United States, 109 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: meaning that if or when Pablos Cobad was captured, he 110 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: could have spent the rest of his life in a 111 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: US prison. In November of nineteen eighty nine, the same 112 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: year that I came to Medijin, Bablos Covad bombed and 113 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: Avianka aircraft mid flight, killing all one hundred and seven people. 114 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 4: On boards Magnicilia Los Carol bomba. 115 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: Two Americans were among the dead, prompting the first Bush 116 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: administration to begin operations to support the Colombian forces in 117 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: their search for Pablo Scovar. 118 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: So, with American money and the American pressure, that unit 119 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 2: of special forces was trained and equipped to capture Pablo Scovar. 120 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 2: At the same time, in response to that pressure, the 121 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: Medagian Cartel went on a bombing campaign that turned Melijin 122 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 2: into Mayhem. 123 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: This is when Medellin became the murder capital of the world. 124 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 2: Many young men in Menagine were being recruited by the 125 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: Medagian cartel to come like the soldiers for the cartel, 126 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 2: remembers ebb. Manuel Spinaso grew up in Pablosco Bar's neighborhood. 127 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: I was. 128 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 2: La pass and so in a sense, him and his 129 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 2: friends and the guys in his neighborhood how to make 130 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: a decision whether to become a hitman, a cicadio for 131 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 2: the cartel or study and continue a different pathsare tra avico? 132 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: Oh yah? Yeah, So back in nineteen eighty nine, Mandor Espinaso, 133 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 2: you know, like many other men in the neighborhood that 134 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 2: he lived in, he had a really tough decision to make, 135 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: which was to decide whether to join the cartels or not. 136 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: You were having to make that decision. Am I going 137 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: to be going and suddenly making fast money dealing drugs? 138 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: What did that look like? 139 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 5: When piet amigoske. 140 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: Manuel started seeing his friends buying motorcycles, buying expensive clothes. 141 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 2: I had money to go to parties on weekends and 142 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 2: take you girls out, and they became the neighborhood's playboys. 143 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 2: Not just in present. 144 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: Remembers how uncertain things were at the time in Mediyin 145 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: he saw that a lot of the friends who were 146 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: joining the cartel were also dying. He says that time 147 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: in Mediyan was really crazy, but that a lot of 148 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: them also thought that this could be what might lead 149 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: them to a better life. 150 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 2: You know, the truth is like if he didn't continue 151 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: going to school and he followed his friend's footsteps, he 152 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 2: will probably be dead by now. Because today like only 153 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,079 Speaker 2: four members of the Median cartel are alive. Three of 154 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 2: them are in prisons abroad, and only one of them 155 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 2: is free and out and about after serving a twenty 156 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 2: three year long sentence. His name is John Jidro Elasquez 157 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: and he's also known as Poppegge or Popeye in English. 158 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: Popeye was Pablo Scobat's right hand man and topsy Carrio. 159 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: He recruited young boys from the comunas and he actually 160 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: trained them as assassins. Bobea admitted to killing over two 161 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty people himself, and he was sentenced to 162 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: thirty years in prison after he surrendered to Columbian authorities 163 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety two. He served twenty three of those 164 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: years in prison and he was released early on parole 165 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: for good behavior. And we should mention that in Colombia 166 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: there is no death penalty or life in prison. So 167 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: the longest a person can get is sixty. 168 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 2: Years, Ola, Maria. So right now I'm at my apartment 169 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 2: in medjin and I am waiting for a car, which 170 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 2: is almost here, and this morning we're gonna go interview Bobeji. 171 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: I made contact with Bobee through Twitter, and by the 172 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: time that he finally agreed to an interview, I had 173 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: already left Medeyin, so I was going to call into 174 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: this interview by phone. 175 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 2: So I just got to the front of his building. 176 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell the door man buena sor hell does? 177 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: I said, a sinkle lisgadia for fever. 178 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 3: I'm to. 179 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: Meet him. 180 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,839 Speaker 1: For a few seconds. Then I lost you on the phone, 181 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: and I got so worried. All sorts of crazy things 182 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: came into my imagination. 183 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 2: Maria. No no, no, no, no no no, I'm going 184 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 2: to disappear. I'm here, I'm gonna I'm in front of 185 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 2: his door. I'm gonna bring the doorbell. So as part 186 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: of the agreements, he requested that I go alone to 187 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,599 Speaker 2: his apartment. It was a little disturbing to know that 188 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 2: I was going to this guy's house by myself. You know, 189 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 2: somebody who's skilled hundreds of people, and here we are, 190 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 2: and he is very very friendly. Then as soon as 191 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: I get in, I see all these Hannibal Lecter masks 192 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 2: hanging on his wall, and then I see a tripod 193 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 2: with the camera pointing at where I'm going to sit, 194 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: and he tells you that he's going to record the 195 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 2: whole interview. So I just kind of settle in. I 196 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 2: just kind of sit down and start asking what is 197 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 2: statios mean on his arm? 198 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 3: Mi? 199 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 5: Here I have the skulls that means death. This is 200 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 5: the arm that I killed with. 201 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 2: Right, So I tell him you mean the army used 202 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 2: to kill with, to which he responds, mato. 203 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 5: I kill. I have no problem killing a son of 204 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 5: a bit. 205 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 2: And that's who I'm sitting in front of. But yeah, 206 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 2: takes it over from here. 207 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: Soope, it take me back to nineteen eighty nine. 208 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: Medigan Mira Maria in. 209 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 4: The year nineteen eighty nine was the most important in 210 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 4: the war of the Managing Cartel and the hurricane that 211 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 4: was the war. 212 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 5: We are fighting in the streets. 213 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 4: We are killing police officers and having shootouts in the 214 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 4: streets blocked by block. 215 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 5: Carbombs are going off in Managing. 216 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: BOPEI can you try and explain this love and this 217 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: loyal tea that you had for pablosk. 218 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 2: Mira, Pago, patron. 219 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 5: Dios, Paulos Coar for us was not a boss or 220 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 5: a friend. He was God. 221 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 4: Paulos Gaviria never disrespected us. We would eat at the 222 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 4: table with him, we were in his orgies. We would 223 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 4: die for Paolo and we'd go to prison for him. 224 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 4: The Medojin cartel was a big family. 225 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: So when I was in Medigan, I was really freaked 226 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 1: out because you know, we got these messages that we 227 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: were being watched. So were we in fact being watched? 228 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 2: Was I right? 229 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 4: Yes, that's right. We sent those messages. The boss always 230 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 4: notifier journalists so they would leave. You should thank god 231 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 4: we didn't kill you. You were at great risk of 232 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,599 Speaker 4: us killing you because in a war you have to 233 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 4: shoot everyone. 234 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 5: Let's be honest. We were at war. 235 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: Maria coming up and let the USA in its darkest hour, 236 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: May the yeans sees a glimmer of hope, stay with us, 237 00:14:10,240 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: not hey, we're back. And before the break, producer Louise 238 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: Gayo and I were speaking with Pablo Scobal's former number 239 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: one hit man known as Poppage or Popeye, a man 240 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: who was at the center of the Middayan cartels war 241 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: against the Colombian state and loes. This was again a 242 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: very personal war for. 243 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 2: You, right, it was a war that my father was fighting. 244 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 2: So my father ends up leaving the National Police and 245 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 2: he joins the National Oil Company of Colombia. He becomes 246 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 2: the head of security and logistics for the construction of 247 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 2: an oil pipeline that is being built through you know, 248 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 2: FARC and narco territories. It was a very, very dangerous job, 249 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 2: but he knew the territory as well. He has done 250 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 2: operations in those territories, so I guess he was kind 251 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 2: of like the right guy for the job. 252 00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: The Forsas Armadas Revolutionarias the Columbia or FARC were a 253 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: leftist gorilla group who took up arms against the government 254 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty four. At the time, the FARC was 255 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: the largest rebel group in Latin America, and they started 256 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: to partner with the cartels in drug trafficking and in 257 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: kidnapping in order to fund their war against the state. 258 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 2: One weekend, when we were visiting my grandmother, my mother 259 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 2: was setting the table. I guess we were ready to 260 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 2: have lunch and then we stop breaking news on the 261 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 2: television that the FARC rebels had attacked the pipeline where 262 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 2: my father was working at. So I remember hearing the 263 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 2: news reporters saying that the rebels had taken hostages, and 264 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 2: one of those hostages was my father. As part of 265 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 2: my father's job with the National Police, he was also 266 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: fighting insurgents who were beginning to infiltrate the business of 267 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: drug trafficking and soon a since he was also the 268 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 2: FARC's enemy, my father he was easy to recognize because 269 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 2: he was tall, about six foot three, which is in 270 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 2: Colombia is pretty tall, slim, had this elegant air to him, 271 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: kind of hit, this pride, this way of moving and 272 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 2: looking that made him stick out. So when my mother 273 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 2: saw this on television on the news report, she said 274 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 2: that she knew that my father would die. The FARC 275 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 2: rebels eventually freed the other hostages, but kept my father, 276 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 2: gave him a war tribunal and executed him. So right 277 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 2: before his death, he was able to leave a message 278 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 2: with one of the civilian witnesses of the war tribunal 279 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 2: and he told my mother that she knew how to 280 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 2: be strong. They have prepared for this moment and that 281 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 2: he was sorry that their time had run out so fast. 282 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: How old were you It was almost six, I was 283 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 2: almost six years old. The funeral was paid for by 284 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 2: the military, the National Police. He was buried next to 285 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 2: the President's daughter, trumpets, you know, the whole ceremony. Like 286 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: many people, it was like a movie. It was. It 287 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 2: was surreal. And I remember like at the funeral home 288 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 2: and I kept on asking like when is he going 289 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 2: to wake up? So like when is this over? Like 290 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 2: when is he going to wake up? In play During 291 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,479 Speaker 2: that same year my father's death, any other families, especially 292 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 2: Menijin were also mourning the loss of their family members. 293 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 2: And that's because the Medijin murder rate peaked that same year. 294 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: So how did Medighin get out of that chaos and 295 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: violence and move to become the city that it is today? 296 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 2: Right, So let's go back to the nineteen fifties, Minijin 297 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 2: was kind of like the industrial hub of Columbia. You know, 298 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: there were many jobs in factories and manufacturing, which attracted 299 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 2: many people from the countryside to move to the city 300 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: for you know, new jobs and opportunities. But in the 301 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: nineteen eighties, the city went through a deep economic crisis 302 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 2: and many people were laid off. 303 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: And there's a geographic situation that you kind of need 304 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: to understand as well, because Meddeyin is set in the 305 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: Andes mountains, but the city itself is in this valley, 306 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: and as people, migrants come to work in this industrial boomtown, 307 00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: they start creating these neighborhoods, these gomunas around these mountains, areas, 308 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: you know, some people call them slums, and these areas 309 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: the communas were excluded from the city of Medeyin because 310 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: of their geographical distance they were up there in the mountains, 311 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: and also because the state and the city of Medellin 312 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: allowed them to be isolated. 313 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 2: At the same time, as the Melijian cartel was booming 314 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 2: and in need of you know, these foot soldiers, many 315 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 2: many young people in the communas were left to just 316 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 2: find for themselves. In a sense, that was like the 317 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 2: perfect place to recruit these young men and women to 318 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 2: come join them to fight this war. 319 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: But then things started to change. Here's Sandra ren As, 320 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: a sociologist and archivist in Medellin, Duna Grandraria, dambieness Moment 321 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: Delasia Impias and Contra. 322 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 2: Las Klaus in the city's most tragic moments. She says 323 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 2: a formula was thought of to bring Menegin out of 324 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 2: its situation and begin its transformation. 325 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: She says the national government sent policymakers to hold these 326 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: public forums and to meet with people across the city, entrepreneurs, artists, academics, intellectuals, journalists, 327 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: and to listen to their ideas about how they thought 328 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: the city could get out of this state of crisis. 329 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: They prioritize the need to link the comunas on those 330 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: steep hills to the city center through a modern metro system. 331 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: And this was really different than the way in which 332 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: most cities have tackled crime. They were using transportation. A 333 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: lot of other cities were investing in policing and military tactics. 334 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 2: I resistance. There was a lot of resistance coming from 335 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 2: the arts, from theater, from music, in a way to 336 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 2: resist this violence and to kind of like keep the 337 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 2: city together. 338 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 1: There were these artists collectives that were throwing outdoor dancing 339 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: parades in the communas. You had theater groups that were 340 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: defined the cartel curfews with all night plays. Art was 341 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: central in the recovery of Metayin. 342 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 2: And part of those music and especially yeah punk music. 343 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 2: Punk music flourished, like this movement just took off with 344 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 2: you many young people in the communas and they created 345 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 2: this very thriving punk scene in Managing that's a live 346 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 2: today anyway. 347 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: After these public forums in which the central government was 348 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: meeting with community leaders and academics and artists, the local 349 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: government started to implement some new ideas. 350 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 2: So in nineteen ninety five, the Managing Metro opened its 351 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 2: first line and it connected previously fragmented areas of the city. 352 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 2: The rich suburb of the south now connected directly to 353 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 2: the poorer neighborhoods of the north. The metro was seen 354 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 2: as a tool for social inclusion and integration. 355 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: And along with that metro, the city of Medeyin, Like 356 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: they went even further and they created something that I've 357 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: never seen before, which was this extensive cable car system 358 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: that was going up to the top of those steep 359 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: mountains and then going down into the city center. And 360 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: in these work munas they were building libraries and parks 361 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: and soccer fields and job training centers and health clinics. 362 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 2: So in a way, Mendajin's big innovation was to tackle 363 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 2: crime and violence through urban planning, through urban design, through infrastructure, 364 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 2: through social innovation and social programs. 365 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 1: The city essentially starts to change. The murder rate starts 366 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: to drop as people actually are reclaiming their streets. 367 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 2: Before the metro system existed or the cable car system existed, 368 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 2: many people in Menajen who lend the communas they used 369 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 2: to say, Oh, I need to go to Menijen to 370 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 2: run an errand, or I need to go to Menijen 371 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 2: to go to school, meaning they needed to go downtown 372 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 2: even though they lived in the Menajen city limits. This 373 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 2: metro system linked them physically to the city and also 374 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 2: give them a sense of belonging and made them feel 375 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 2: part of the city as a whole. And people in 376 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 2: the Theagin are super proud of their metro system or 377 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 2: the cable car system. I mean, the metro is over 378 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 2: twenty years old now and you don't see a single 379 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 2: piece of garbage on the tracks. 380 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 1: I really wanted to see what this looked like up close, 381 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 1: so Luisa and I made our way on Medein's metro 382 00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: to what is known as the infamous Communa Trese or 383 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: Gomuna thirteen, which at one point was one of the 384 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: most violent and stigmatized communities of these poor neighborhoods. And 385 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: while we were there, we met with Berograph who takes 386 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: us around his neighborhood. He's showing us different graffiti walls 387 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: that he's painted, and I mean huge graffiti walls. 388 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 2: So what are we seeing this? 389 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: So like we're in a very urban setting where outdoors, 390 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: we're on the street. Then you get to this little 391 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: area and there's an escalator here in the middle of 392 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: a outdoor community. Wow, you're writing escalators up a hill literally, 393 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: and it's taking you to the top of the city. 394 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: But what you're also seeing is everywhere you turn there's art. 395 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: There's huge mural arts at every turn. 396 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 2: Pederal takes us to his neighborhood and he shows us 397 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 2: the murals he's painted along the escalators, and then he 398 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 2: leave us to the very top of the escalators where 399 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 2: there's like a platform with a big lookout of the 400 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 2: city and like the mountains and the downtown of Managing 401 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 2: And in the backdrop there are some kids breakdancing and 402 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: freestyling in this moment. Yeah, so then we end up 403 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 2: joining the freestyle cipher and we listen to the kids. 404 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 2: Rap is the place that thirty years ago, was unimaginable 405 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 2: that somebody like me, somebody like Maria, tourists from other 406 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 2: places would even want to come in. Even police officers 407 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 2: and law enforcement were afraid. And to see you today, 408 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 2: you know, with arts and color and tourists and music 409 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 2: and kids just hanging out, it's a very star contrasts 410 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 2: right from the megagin city homin no dignity. 411 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: In fact, foreign tourism has gone up in Colombia by 412 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty percent over the last decade, and 413 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: Medellin has become one of the most visited cities in 414 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: the country. But a lot of those tourists are coming 415 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: to Medeyin precisely because of the city's past and its 416 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: drug trafficking legacy. It's something that the locals are calling 417 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: narco turismo, which is narco tourism somebody. 418 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 2: And we're getting close to the building now. 419 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: Luisa and I are in a cab and we're slowly 420 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: approaching Eledficio Monaco, which is the building compound where Bablo 421 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: Scobad lived with his family Ladies. I on the gun. 422 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: This building that we're looking at was once bombed by 423 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: Babloscovard's rivals. The Cali Cartel and his wife and kids 424 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: and mother were in the building when it happened. Now though, 425 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 1: it's become a tourist attraction. 426 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's totally a narco ruin. It's old, it 427 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 2: looks dated. 428 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. There are some tourists right behind us. 429 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 1: I think we need to go talk to them. 430 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 2: Let's go talk. 431 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 4: Let's go. 432 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 3: On this one. 433 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 2: Dania the Mexico to the Americans. 434 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 6: Okay, elish, Yes. 435 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 2: It's okay English. Okay. 436 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: So is this your first time in Median? 437 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 7: No? 438 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 6: No, no, no, it's not the first time. 439 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: Why did you want to If you've been to Midian 440 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: many times before, why did you decide that today you 441 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: want to? 442 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 2: My son asked me to. 443 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 6: To account to see where Publis I was leaving. 444 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: So your son in Italy? 445 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 2: My son? 446 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: Yes? 447 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 3: Old? 448 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 2: Is your son twelve? 449 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 6: Twelve years old? 450 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: Okay? Wait what your twelve year old son in Milan? 451 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: I said to you, Dad. If you're going to Columbia 452 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: and you're going to the Yen, you've got to go 453 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: see the building where Publishkobad used to live. 454 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 6: Yes, and if you find me also some caps and 455 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 6: some t shirts with Medina please to beaming back. So 456 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 6: exactly what do you think about I think this is 457 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 6: the result of Netflix and all these years, and I 458 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 6: can't understand. 459 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 2: And I find it interesting that it's a Mexican and 460 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 2: an Italian coming to Colombia. I was countries that have 461 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 2: mafias that have cartels that have been stigmatized for the cartails. 462 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 2: The Godfather cell Chapel its time and they are at 463 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 2: the poo Escobar building. There are many people in the 464 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 2: city now that are trying to make some money, to 465 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 2: make some profit from this type of you know, narco tourism. 466 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 2: Even POPEI takes groups of people to these narco relics, 467 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 2: including you know the Fisio Monaco or public schobodies to 468 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 2: live to his grave and to the house where he 469 00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 2: was gone down. 470 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's Medellin's former mayor, Federico Gutierres. He tells us 471 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: about his plan to tear down Ilio Monaco and to 472 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: build a museum and a park in its place to 473 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: remember the victims. He says, it's not about hiding history, 474 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: but rather to transform it. It's not about forgetting, but 475 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: about healing together and remembering the victims. 476 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 2: Lamme aging. 477 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: Real the mayor says that the medagin from Netflix isn't 478 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: the real one, but that it's true that terrible things 479 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: took place in this city and that they shouldn't be 480 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: forgotten because in fact, that's what made the city hit 481 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: rock bottom, and he says that's what made the people 482 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: of Medellin come together as a society. 483 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a concern that many of the 484 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 2: visitors to the city are coming because of that, that 485 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 2: fascination with Netflix, with Narcos, with Pablo Scoar, which in 486 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 2: a sense, can Tina tou perpetuate kind of that that 487 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: stereotype and that stigma that the city has had, and 488 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 2: that is trying to get rid of as Colombians were 489 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 2: trying to get past that collective trauma of that time. 490 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: But Mideyin is a totally different place today and it's 491 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: become a model for other cities. Homicides here have gone 492 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: down by ninety percent over the last thirty years. 493 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 2: At one point in the Gin was the most dangerous 494 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 2: city in the world, but now it's murder rate it's 495 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 2: even lower than many American cities, including Las Vegas and Detroit. 496 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 2: So about five years after my father's death, my family 497 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 2: ended up leaving Colombia and we moved to Seattle, Washington. 498 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: But you actually decide to come back to Colombia around 499 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: the time that the Colombian government was getting ready to 500 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: sign up peace deal with the FARC, the gorilla group 501 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: that assassinated your dad. Louis, why did you decide to 502 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: come back to Colombia. 503 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 2: Because I think it was a strategic moment, both in 504 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 2: my own family history, in my own personal history, and 505 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 2: the country's history to finally come together and try to 506 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 2: process what happened and maybe find a way to heal 507 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 2: and forgive and turn the page collectively. So the day 508 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 2: that peace accord was finally signed by the government, by 509 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 2: the president and the FARC leader, there was a big 510 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 2: concert in Botha's main square. At the concert, you know, 511 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 2: there were you know, many people were in white There 512 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 2: were a lot of white flags and balloons symbolizing peace 513 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 2: and reconciliation. But at the same time, I noticed a 514 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 2: lot of red flags and people were in red shirts. 515 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 2: And I was there with a friend who works for 516 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 2: the president, and she confirmed that, you know, the people 517 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 2: wearing the red shirts and waving the red flags were 518 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 2: FARK Urban militia members. That were part of the celebration. 519 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 2: So later on in the concert, the band after Sepelalos, 520 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 2: which is a rock band, comes to the stage and 521 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 2: the lead singer, Andre Cheverri, she asked everyone in the 522 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 2: crowd to hug a stranger, to hug somebody that you 523 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 2: didn't come with, just in the name of peace. This 524 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 2: guy who was wearing a red shirt came up to 525 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 2: me and gave me like a swig of a gardening, 526 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 2: which is the Colombian you know liquor, and you know, 527 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 2: so I took a swig of the Aardente battle and 528 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 2: then he gave me a hug. 529 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: So you mean that guy in the red shirt was 530 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: potentially in some way connected to the same group that 531 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,760 Speaker 1: basically ordered your dad to be killed. 532 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was a very surreal moment many of 533 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 2: us Colombians would have never imagined or dreamed of. I 534 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,720 Speaker 2: was honoring my father's life by embracing this new chapter 535 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 2: of our history. 536 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: After being back in Median after thirty years and being 537 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: there with you, Louise, it's pretty undeniable that Median today 538 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 1: is a totally different city and it's a better city 539 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,760 Speaker 1: for its people. Now. It's true there are still lots 540 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: of issues like the massive inequality and the drug trafficking 541 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: that still exists, but Midian has come up with its 542 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: own innovative solutions in order to mitigate these problems. 543 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 2: Midiji's transformation is also symbolic what many Colombians are going through, 544 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 2: of transforming from a place of hate and violence to 545 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 2: a new, hopeful, more peaceful, more reconciled future in Columbia. 546 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 1: There have been a few updates since this story originally 547 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: broadcast in June of twenty eighteen. The Colombian government went 548 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,240 Speaker 1: through plans to demolish a lad Ficure Monaco and level 549 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: the compound. In February of twenty nineteen, also about a 550 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: month after we spoke to Popeye, Colombia's National Police arrested 551 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: and charged him with extortion. He was hospitalized in December 552 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: with late stage stomach cancer. He passed away in early 553 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: February of twenty twenty. This story was reported by Me 554 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: and Ruis Gallo. It was produced by Seor Keevedo and 555 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: edited by Fernanda Chavari. Special thanks to Diego Senior for 556 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: his voicing of Popeye for this piece. That the USA 557 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 1: is produced by Niel Massias, Antonia Seehidro Genes Yamoca, Alisas 558 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: Carce and Alexandra Salasad, with help this week from Joanndaluna, 559 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: Gini Montalbo and Raoul Berees were edited by Sophia Palisaka 560 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: and Luis Drees. Our engineers are Stephane Lebau and Julia Caruso. 561 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: Additional engineering this week by Lia Shaw. Our Director Programming 562 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 1: and Operations is Natalia Fiederhortz. Our digital editor is Amanel Ganda. 563 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 1: Our interns are kugay Nessesparsa and Jugia Rocha. Fact checking 564 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: by Media Baptista. Our theme music was composed by Zee Rubinos. 565 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: If you like the music you heard on this episode, 566 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 1: stop by Latinousa dot org and check out our weekly 567 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: Spotify playlist. I'm your host and executive producer Maria Jojosan. 568 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 1: Join us again on our next episode, and in the meantime, 569 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: I'll see you on all of our social media. 570 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 7: Joe Latino USA is made possible in part by the 571 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 7: John D. 572 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:36,800 Speaker 5: And Catherine T. 573 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 7: MacArthur Foundation, the Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the 574 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 7: frontlines of social change worldwide, and New York Women's Foundation. 575 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 7: The New York Women's Foundation funding women leaders that build 576 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 7: solutions in their communities, and celebrating thirty years of radical 577 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 7: generosity