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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People That Did Cool Stuff,

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Speaker 2: the podcast where we start by asking everyone on the

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Speaker 2: call what a survival kit for them would look like

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Speaker 2: in terms of when you're having a bad week. Because

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Speaker 2: we were just talking about it off, Mike and I

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Speaker 2: think it would be funny to start this way.

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Speaker 3: Do I go first?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 3: So Griffiths by the way, Oh sorry, no, it's okay,

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Speaker 3: it's my job to introduce you. I'm assuming everyone listened

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Speaker 3: to part one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, please go listen to part one.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: If you didn't, why are you here? Go back and

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Speaker 3: listen to part one. We'll wait for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So a survival kit if someone were sending me one

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Speaker 3: for like a long day of writing, would probably involve

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Speaker 3: coffee and some sort of homemade baked goods because I'm

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Speaker 3: a snob, so I need homemade stuff.

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Speaker 2: Sophie h Happy Dogs, so like CBD treats healthy.

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Speaker 5: Lebron James, So, I don't know what witchcraft we could

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Speaker 5: do there. And my friend Lacy makes these really good

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Speaker 5: gluten free double chocolate cookies, so specifically my friend Lacy's

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Speaker 5: cookies highly see, I think.

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Speaker 3: That we're both getting baked goods.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but they're like authentically baked baked goods.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm going to join on the baked

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Speaker 2: goods team. That sounds great.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, fortunately none of you all listeners have my actress,

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Speaker 2: and if you do, don't send me anything because then

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Speaker 2: I'll be anyway. Whatever. So this is part two of

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Speaker 2: a two parter about the history of the song Belichow

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Speaker 2: and how it ties into women who resisted fascism and

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Speaker 2: also grew a lot of rice. Our guest is Gg Griffiths,

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Speaker 2: Our producer Sophie Lickterman Hi, our audio engineers Rory Hi,

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Speaker 2: Rory Hi, riy Hi or. Our theme musical was written

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Speaker 2: for us by Unwoman, And if you all go into

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Speaker 2: the bowels of the internet, you might find a version

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Speaker 2: of me playing accordion for Unwoman singing bela Chow at

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Speaker 2: a steampunk convention and I want to say Texas. Uh

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Speaker 2: So that's the thing that people can do if they

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Speaker 2: really want to see.

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Speaker 3: And this is why you always have to listen to

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Speaker 3: this second part of any episode because you get the

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Speaker 3: easter egg.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I hope I don't sing on that version

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Speaker 2: of it. Hopefully I'm just play No.

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Speaker 7: I hope you do.

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Speaker 3: I'm ready like my Google history right after. This is

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Speaker 3: going to be exactly that.

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Speaker 2: I used to play accordion and play shows, and at

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Speaker 2: one point I played this show and I didn't really

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Speaker 2: like folk punk all that much, but I would play accordion,

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Speaker 2: I would sing. And one time I played the show

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Speaker 2: and the other person playing was this folk punk musician.

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Speaker 2: I went up to him afterwards and I was like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't really like folk punk all that much,

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Speaker 2: but I really like what you did. And he looked

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Speaker 2: at me really angry, and he was like, what do

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Speaker 2: you call what you do? And that is the last

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Speaker 2: show I ever played as a solo accordionist because I

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Speaker 2: realized what I was doing was folk punk. He gotchas

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Speaker 2: I know. It was like two thousand and nine. Wow. Anyway, anyway,

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Speaker 2: script me, script me. Later I could tell a story

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Speaker 2: about how I learned the song Belich how from the

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Speaker 2: daughter of our Crumb, the weird illustrator Sick. So the

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Speaker 2: fascist kind of liked the Mandine for a while, but

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Speaker 2: that was not reciprocated at all. By the end of

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Speaker 2: the nineteen twenties, almost all political organizers had quit or

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Speaker 2: gone underground or left the country. There were various underground

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Speaker 2: resistance groups and shit, But in terms of open organizing

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Speaker 2: on the left, as far as I can tell, the

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Speaker 2: Mondine stood alone, which is to say, I have read

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Speaker 2: multiple historians that argue that they stood alone, and I

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Speaker 2: expect sometime next year I'll like read about some other

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Speaker 2: movement that kept organizing and trade unions or whatever during fascism,

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Speaker 2: but not aware of it. They kept going and they

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Speaker 2: kept doing their thing. In nineteen thirty four in fascist Italy,

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Speaker 2: they struck against some wage cuts that happened to them,

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Speaker 2: and then in nineteen forty one, during the fucking war,

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Speaker 2: they struck for higher wages.

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Speaker 3: That's so ballsy. I love these women, I.

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Speaker 2: Know, And like I was first reading that and I

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Speaker 2: was like, wow, they must have been like uniquely untouchable

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Speaker 2: or something. And then like the next line in what

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Speaker 2: I was reading was like, they were not untouchable by

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Speaker 2: the fascists. They were irregularly arrested and beaten. They did

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Speaker 2: it anyway, and I suspect they did it because they

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Speaker 2: felt like they had no other choice, whether morally or personally, right,

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Speaker 2: because they're also is hard work that you were not

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Speaker 2: getting paid enough for and they're all like on the

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Speaker 2: edge of starving and eating snakes, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, desperation breeds a lot of revolution.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Then in nineteen forty three, Italy surrendered, like

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Speaker 2: I was saying before, and northern Italy was occupied by

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Speaker 2: a Nazi puppet state under Mussolini, and the Italian Civil

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Speaker 2: War kicked off in the Maldine. They were part of

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Speaker 2: the resistance first and foremost. A ton of them just

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Speaker 2: outright refused to work for the Nazi occupation. A ton

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Speaker 2: of them just walked off the job and never came back.

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Speaker 2: And the thing it reminded me of was how during

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Speaker 2: the American Civil War, enslave people worked the plantations of

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Speaker 2: the Confederacy, right, and so they launched the single most

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Speaker 2: important labor action in US history, the one that doesn't

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Speaker 2: get talked about enough, and they pulled off a general

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Speaker 2: strike that crippled the agricultural economy of the Confederacy, and

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Speaker 2: they helped win their own freedom with the help of

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Speaker 2: their allies in the Union Army.

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Speaker 3: You covered that before, right with prop was your guest.

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah. It was one of the first episodes

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Speaker 2: we ever did the Civil Civil War war because of

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Speaker 2: the Civil war within the Civil War. Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 2: know the impact of the Mandine labor actions on the

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Speaker 2: Nazi occupied Italian agricultural economy, which is a hard thing

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Speaker 2: to say one way or the other. But it's a

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Speaker 2: cool thing to do to refuse to work for fascists.

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Speaker 3: It feels like the impact must have been big if

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Speaker 3: they were still doing the anti pasta thing. And now

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Speaker 3: they also don't.

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Speaker 2: Have rice, yeah, totally. Yeah, he put all of his

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Speaker 2: eggs in the pasta basket, and so now.

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Speaker 3: The only thing they can eat is polenta. And I'm

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Speaker 3: sure that it's not nutritionally sufficient just to eat plenta.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, probably not. It's also my least favorite of these

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Speaker 2: three things that we've described as food. True, I would

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Speaker 2: go pasta.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not that they are food, but the thing that

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Speaker 3: we described as food.

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Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough. Other of the mundane would run messages

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Speaker 2: for the partisans or house partisans or would you know

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Speaker 2: the thing that a lot of women did, and it

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Speaker 2: gets either written out of history or it gets a

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Speaker 2: little played up by history, depending on which history you read.

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Speaker 2: They picked up rifles and became partisans themselves. World War

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Speaker 2: II had a ton of women fighting on the front lines.

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Speaker 2: Actually all, including some of the fascist countries but mostly

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Speaker 2: not especially partisan and communist forces had women fighting. And uh,

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Speaker 2: this is not a post gender utopia. Most of the

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Speaker 2: women in the armed forces, including in partisan and guerrilla

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Speaker 2: units or in the USSR, were like given administrative roles,

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Speaker 2: but not only and even.

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Speaker 3: Those who are allowed to fight, Like as soon as

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Speaker 3: the war was over, it was like, okay, get.

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Speaker 2: Back to the kitchen.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm thinking of like the night witches in

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Speaker 3: the USSR, Like they were badasses who were flying planes

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Speaker 3: and bombing shit and they were such a huge deal.

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Speaker 3: And then as soon as it's over, the USSR's like, no, no,

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Speaker 3: women can't fly.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: They're like we want we want to rebuild our We

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Speaker 2: killed all the men, we need more of them, so

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Speaker 2: we need you all to make them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, please make more men.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I okay, whatever I think about like

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Speaker 2: the fascist countries and they're like, we need everyone to

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Speaker 2: make as many babies as possible for the war. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: how long do you think this war's going on? For guys, like.

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Speaker 3: But for the forever war?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I'm sorry to tell you, And I guess

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Speaker 2: they didn't have history to look back at. But fascist

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Speaker 2: countries don't live long enough for their for the fascists

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Speaker 2: to have enough kids to go put into the.

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Speaker 3: War, for the one year old to matter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which is the thing that everyone should remember.

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Speaker 3: It's the fascist quiverful movement.

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Speaker 2: Though it's like, oh, absolutely.

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Speaker 3: We're going to have babies so we can throw them

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Speaker 3: at you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that is the modern quiverful movement too.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, like I mean literally, yeah, they're like, well

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Speaker 2: we do want to outnumber you or whatever. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and yeah you're counting on things still being fascist eighteen

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Speaker 2: years from now, you know. I they were optimistic. You

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Speaker 2: got to give them that. They were also wrong.

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Speaker 3: No matter what political party, we're always more optimistic than

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Speaker 3: we should be. Let's be real.

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Speaker 2: That's true. Okay, fair enough. So I think it is

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Speaker 2: perfectly acceptable to call Belichow a partisan song, whether or

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Speaker 2: not the explicitly partisan lyrics were written during the partisan

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Speaker 2: era during the Italian Civil War, because Mondine were partisans

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Speaker 2: and it was their song. There is also a decent

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Speaker 2: chance that it was sung regularly by partisans and given

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Speaker 2: partisan lyrics during the war, but there's no direct evidence

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Speaker 2: of that. There are a few old partisans who make

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Speaker 2: this claim that like this or that unit used to

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Speaker 2: sing it, But there's like, there's no partisan claiming I

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Speaker 2: sang it, my unit sang it. They're always like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that song came from over there or whatever. Right, at

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Speaker 2: least that any of the historians that I read found

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Speaker 2: and they would circulate. The partisans would circulate songbooks, and

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Speaker 2: this was not in any of the songbooks that were

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Speaker 2: circulated by any of the partisans. This is one of

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Speaker 2: the main arguments against the idea that it was sung

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Speaker 2: during the partisan era.

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Speaker 3: Was every other song that we consider a partisan song

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Speaker 3: in the songbooks?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, because there are later collections that include

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Speaker 2: starting the nineteen fifties that have Belichow in it. And

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Speaker 2: so that is actually a really good question. Are there

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Speaker 2: other ones that sort of slipped through the cracks?

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Speaker 3: And are they all by women?

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Speaker 2: Right? And the fact that it's a woman's song might

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Speaker 2: mean that it just wasn't written down into the songbooks

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Speaker 2: that they circulated. It might have stayed oral. Also, the

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Speaker 2: fact that it wasn't for the communists or for the

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Speaker 2: anarchists or for the Catholics, like some of the songs

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Speaker 2: we're going to listen to later. Right, So if you're

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Speaker 2: putting together you're like, here's our unit songbook, you might

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Speaker 2: not include that one because it might not be This

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Speaker 2: is my conjecture. After the war, the Mandane kept going

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Speaker 2: for a couple decades, and they remained symbols of leftist resistance.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen forty nine, a movie called Bitter Rice came out.

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Speaker 2: In real life, the Mandina wore long skirts while they worked,

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Speaker 2: but in the movie they wore shorts and ripped stockings.

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Speaker 2: And what I like about this is that they were like, ah,

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Speaker 2: you misrepresented us. They were like, oh, okay, that looks cool.

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Speaker 2: We're going to do that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I love that. This is our new fashion statement.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it kind of became a fashion craze in Italy,

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Speaker 2: but the Mondine switched over to this.

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Speaker 5: Look.

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Speaker 3: This is kind of like when a fandom of like

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Speaker 3: some show or book or whatever is like, we think

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Speaker 3: the answered to the mystery is this, and the writers

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Speaker 3: are like, huh, that's better than the idea we had.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, Like oh wow, you actually paid attention to

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Speaker 2: all the plot points that we forgot about, and yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: that does add up better.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, perfect, got it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, after the fall of fascism, Italy did not turn

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Speaker 2: into like a socialist paradise. The same year that Bitter

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Speaker 2: Rice came out, which is nineteen forty nine, a former

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Speaker 2: partisan named Maria Margotti was gunned down by the Italian

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Speaker 2: police during an agricultural protest. And everyone argues about every

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Speaker 2: single part of everything that has to do with the

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Speaker 2: Mondine and Belichow and it is so annoying. Maria died

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Speaker 2: wearing a white scarf and this is emblematic of the Mondine,

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Speaker 2: and she had that around her neck, and she became

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Speaker 2: a martyr of sorts for the Partisans, even though she

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Speaker 2: died after the war, because she was a former partisan,

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Speaker 2: right and she was died doing what Partisans do, which

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Speaker 2: is fight against oppression, even though it's the Italian state

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Speaker 2: now instead of the Italian fascist state. Everyone assumed she

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Speaker 2: was a Mondine on top of everything else, and so

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Speaker 2: she became an icon. She was actually a brickmaker, but whatever.

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Speaker 2: And also mondane's seasonal work, so it seems like easily

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Speaker 2: she could have done both jobs.

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Speaker 3: People could have more than one job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, when they're like starving peasant workers, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: or people wore the white scarves as like a symbol

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Speaker 2: of solidarity, which would be cool too. She was a widow,

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Speaker 2: a proletarian and anti fascist and a veteran of the

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Speaker 2: Civil War, and she'd been gunned down, so she became

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Speaker 2: a martyr. After her death, the National Association of Italian

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Speaker 2: Partisans took care of her kids financially, which is cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the Mondine stayed politically active, and eventually the one hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand workers still on the job won the seven hour day,

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Speaker 2: which is I was saying before, is the lower I've

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Speaker 2: seen anyone accomplish besides like CEOs or whatever, who can

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Speaker 2: somehow be the people who play Diablo the most apparently

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Speaker 2: and still be the richest man in the world anyway, whatever,

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Speaker 2: the Mondine didn't last too much longer as a profession,

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Speaker 2: for better or worse. It's one of those things where

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Speaker 2: you're like, I want people to have employment if they

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Speaker 2: want it, and I want people to have the things

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Speaker 2: they need, but like it's terrible work, yeah you know,

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Speaker 2: and uh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you don't want to actually be like knee

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Speaker 3: deep in this water, bent over, like pulling weeds and stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, seven hours a day is too many hours for

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Speaker 2: that you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like ten minutes a day maximum.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would do that for ten minutes a day,

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Speaker 2: you know, Like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like that's how long I weed my garden.

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Speaker 2: That's fine, yeah exactly. Mechanization started to come for their job,

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Speaker 2: and they organized unsuccessfully against that mechanization. I believe mostly

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Speaker 2: they did labor actions and like would like sit in

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Speaker 2: front of agricultural machines. One woman told an Oral History

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Speaker 2: project quote, we went up against the combine harvesters together

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Speaker 2: on the land and we stopped them. My husband told

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Speaker 2: me one of these days they won't stop. I replied,

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Speaker 2: I would happily die for my work.

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Speaker 3: Also, probably you could get people to stop blocking them

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Speaker 3: if you just gave them the living wage without making

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Speaker 3: them do the back breaking work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And the Mandina went into rapid decline

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Speaker 2: in the early nineteen sixties with the introduction of herbicides

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Speaker 2: and mechanization. By nineteen eighties, the jobs were entirely mechanized,

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Speaker 2: and that's the where most of the stories will end.

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Speaker 2: According to a twenty eleven piece by Weago, women in

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Speaker 2: informal employment, globalizing and organizing bosses in Northern Italy realized

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Speaker 2: that Chinese migrant labor is even cheaper than machines, and

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Speaker 2: so now tens of thousands of Chinese men and women

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Speaker 2: work as mondina in northern Italy every year, and for

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Speaker 2: some weird reason, they aren't given the same cultural status

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Speaker 2: and respect. I can't figure out what the differences must be.

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Speaker 2: Just times must be the only thing that's different.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the only difference is like historical versus present.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. But that's the story of the Mandine. But

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Speaker 2: what about the story of stuff and stuff that you

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Speaker 2: should probably not buy? I mean by totally good. Everything

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Speaker 2: is vetted by me personally, and I will stake my

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Speaker 2: life on the efficacy of the following all of us

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Speaker 2: a lie. But here's some ads, and we're back. But

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Speaker 2: what about the song? What about Belichow? What happened with it? Well,

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Speaker 2: as I was saying, there's no evidence that partisans actually

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Speaker 2: sang Belichow, there's no evidence that they didn't. It is

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Speaker 2: largely accepted that the partisan version of it was written later.

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Speaker 2: But I actually no longer believe that. But we'll talk

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Speaker 2: about that. I guess I've kind of hinted at that.

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Speaker 2: But basically it comes down to I trust a specific

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Speaker 2: woman have been telling the truth. That's what it comes

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Speaker 2: down to for me, believe women in history. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: So I had assumed that the Partisans didn't sing Belichow

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Speaker 2: until late last night reading Diana Garvin's piece that talks

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Speaker 2: in a long footnote about the oral history of the song.

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Speaker 2: But let's talk about popular rebel music of the early

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Speaker 2: twentieth century and World War Two in Italy. And not

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Speaker 2: just because the start off is mostly anarchist music. But

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Speaker 2: as I said way at the beginning, we all have

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Speaker 2: our biases, and I think it's pretty cool that Italian

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Speaker 2: radical music started with anarchist music. Popular rebel songs in

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Speaker 2: Italy in the period between unification and Italy became Italy

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Speaker 2: in the eighteen sixties, I think, and fascism it came

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Speaker 2: especially from the anarchist tradition. Most of these songs were

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Speaker 2: anonymously written, and a lot of them applied lyrics to

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Speaker 2: existing melodies, which is folk music has been doing this forever.

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Speaker 2: You hear a love song and you're like, yeah, but

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Speaker 2: what a was about killing your boss instead? You know,

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Speaker 2: or somehow both, which is kind of what I like

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Speaker 2: about Belichiw. It kind of has like both vibes, you know,

340
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Speaker 2: it really does.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a very beautiful song and also like fuck.

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Speaker 2: You, Yeah, totally all right, fascists, I'm going to go

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Speaker 2: to the mountains and shoot you until you shoot me.

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Speaker 2: And it's fine. And one of the most popular songwriters

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Speaker 2: of radical music in Italy during this period is a

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Speaker 2: guy who I think I've talked about on the show

347
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Speaker 2: before named Pietro Gory, because we did a four parter

348
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Speaker 2: about Argentinian indigenous and anarchist uprisings in the late nineteen

349
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Speaker 2: tens and Pietro was there because he winds up in

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Speaker 2: Argentina and worked as an organizer there. As for why

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Speaker 2: he was there, now, I know he wasn't welcome in

352
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Speaker 2: Europe anymore. He was this well respected lawyer and journalist

353
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Speaker 2: and poet. And I found one source that was in

354
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Speaker 2: translation by Google Translate that implied he actually kind of

355
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Speaker 2: just started off a socialist and then he got kind

356
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Speaker 2: of caught up in all this stuff. He was living

357
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Speaker 2: in France and he decided to defend an anarchist assassin

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Speaker 2: in court. During this period, France was having this honestly

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Speaker 2: kind of annoying thing going on where like an anarchists

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Speaker 2: would assassinate an important guy, and so then the state

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Speaker 2: would kill the assassin, so another assassin would avenge the

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Speaker 2: other assassin. So the state would then round up a

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Speaker 2: bunch of unrelated anarchists, including a bunch of like novelists

364
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Speaker 2: and people who have nothing to do with like direct politics,

365
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Speaker 2: and put them on trial. So another anarchists would like

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Speaker 2: broad in their scope of what they considered acceptable targets

367
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Speaker 2: and start bombing cafes, which I consider immoral. And I

368
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Speaker 2: don't know, is this whole thing.

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Speaker 3: Violence breeding more violence as we see like everything in history, right, yeah,

370
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Speaker 3: and violence breeding violence against people just for ideological reasons

371
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Speaker 3: who weren't violent, like haymarkt or.

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Speaker 2: Whatever totally and including like, you know, the first one

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Speaker 2: of these guys to one of the anarchist assassins to

374
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Speaker 2: try and target just like random masses of people was

375
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Speaker 2: the first one who was from the upper class himself,

376
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Speaker 2: and he decided to like throw a bomb into a

377
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Speaker 2: cafe and say there's no innocent among the bourgeoisie, which

378
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,320
Speaker 2: is kind of a fuck you Dad kind of thing.

379
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Speaker 3: Yeah, very fuck you Dad vibes.

380
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Speaker 2: And I don't like him. Emilan Rang anyway, this one anarchist.

381
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,960
Speaker 2: He was doing a retaliation thing and he kind of

382
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 2: took things up pretty high up the food chain, and

383
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Speaker 2: he stabbed the French president to death in eighteen ninety four. Okay,

384
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Speaker 2: so he was on trial, which is you know, you're

385
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Speaker 2: kind of lucky if you survived a trial after you

386
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:36,680
Speaker 2: stabbed the president. And Pietro Gory was like, well, I'll

387
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Speaker 2: represent him. It's legal to represent someone in court. What

388
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:40,600
Speaker 2: could go wrong?

389
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Speaker 4: Right?

390
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 2: The state would be a hypocrite to come after someone

391
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Speaker 2: for being a lawyer.

392
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 3: The state has never been a hypocrite before, So I

393
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Speaker 3: think I'll do this.

394
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Speaker 2: Right, what could go wrong? He gets accused of having

395
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Speaker 2: masterminded the entire thing, like he is the one who

396
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 2: put the assassin up to kill Hi the guy. This

397
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,680
Speaker 2: is something that's always happens in radical history, especially anti

398
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,399
Speaker 2: authoritarian history. Is there always like yeah, well, couldn't have

399
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 2: been this person's idea. There's got to be a some

400
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 2: older man behind the you know, like steepling his fingers

401
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 2: planning the whole thing.

402
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 3: You know, well, especially if the person on trial is

403
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,680
Speaker 3: in any way a marginalized person or woman or.

404
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 2: Whatever, like, yeah, they couldn't have come up with that

405
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:22,360
Speaker 2: idea on their own.

406
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,120
Speaker 3: A man had to come up with this and tell

407
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 3: them about it.

408
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, So he gets exiled to Switzerland, and then Switzerland,

409
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,480
Speaker 2: for their part, are like, you know what, we don't

410
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 2: want you or any of these other anarchists either, and

411
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,439
Speaker 2: they arrest him and a bunch of other anarchists for

412
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,679
Speaker 2: being anarchists. And so he wrote a bunch of successful

413
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 2: pop songs while he was in jail.

414
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Speaker 3: I think I love about jail. I hate everything about

415
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 3: jail except that people go in there and they get

416
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:51,400
Speaker 3: really creative.

417
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 2: I know, I get the most mad when I find

418
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 2: out that jail's like aren't allowing people pens or something,

419
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 2: you know, Like, yeah, because I'm like A long time ago,

420
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 2: I was interviewing fiction writers and one of them, I

421
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 2: think it was as writer Starhawk, and she was like,

422
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 2: things that are bad for other people are good for writers.

423
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 3: I finally wrote my novel How I Was Locked Up?

424
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like, you know, or what'd you write about?

425
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:19,160
Speaker 6: Oh?

426
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 2: Some traumatic stuff that happened to me, you know.

427
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 3: At that time I almost died inspired me.

428
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 2: The first several short stories that I wrote and sold

429
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 2: were all based on very specific bad things that had

430
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 2: happened to me, you know. So anyway, he writes a

431
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 2: bunch of pop songs that are still sung today, including

432
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 2: Farewell Beautiful, Logano and Logano is the name of the

433
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,439
Speaker 2: city in Switzerland that he was exiled to. And he

434
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 2: wound up in Argentina and he organized a bunch there.

435
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 2: But he wrote a bunch of six songs with names

436
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,880
Speaker 2: like Songs of Exile, which has the chorus our fatherland

437
00:21:54,960 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 2: is the entire world, our law is liberty. And these

438
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 2: songs aren't catchy like Belachow. I will talk about why later,

439
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 2: but here's here's a little bit of of Songs of Exile.

440
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 8: Opn bo Seva, Inside Beyond, album Going, Jelly Verda Saba,

441
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 8: album Going, Charny Basia, three Bullycorgies Fall.

442
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 2: It's it's not Belachoo, but still fun, you know.

443
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 9: Yeah.

444
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 3: I love that. It kind of was chill at first

445
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 3: and tricked you into thinking it was going to be

446
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 3: a relaxed song and then went a little bit crazy.

447
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 9: Yeah.

448
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 2: I like when it picks up. And so people are

449
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 2: writing songs as things start getting bad, because people always

450
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,360
Speaker 2: write songs. The first protest song of the fascist era

451
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 2: was apparently I wasn't able to track it down. An

452
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 2: anarchist song written about the nineteen twenty four assassination of

453
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 2: the Socialist Party leader Jacomo Madiatoi, which whose name I

454
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 2: wrote down how to pronounce in the last episode and

455
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 2: forgot to write down this time. I did not find

456
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 2: this song, but I just thought it was interesting. The

457
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 2: Fascist though, right, they see themselves as.

458
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 3: Rebels and so no were they writing music too.

459
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 2: Oh, they're writing music too, and they're even doing it

460
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 2: in the same way, and so they had their own

461
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 2: protest songs and shit. The official song of the Fascist

462
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 2: Party was called Giovanzi, which some historians, and I don't

463
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 2: know that this is true or not, some historians have

464
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 2: claimed it is also based on a Mandine song from

465
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 2: the previous century, though of course it's lyrics were written

466
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 2: to be all about like, I'm not gonna play this

467
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 2: one for you, but it's all about how like manly

468
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: Italian manly men are going to march together for Italian

469
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: civilization or whatever the fuck. Like literally, I don't eat pasta,

470
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 2: Yeah no, I mean well they it says manly men,

471
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 2: not soy boys eating eating girl noodles, which is what

472
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 2: I'm gonna eat. For dinner tonight.

473
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 5: Yeah.

474
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: I remember, years before I even came out to anyone

475
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 2: as trends, when people first started being like, if you

476
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 2: eat a bunch of tofu, it's gonna make you girly,

477
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 2: and I was like, I need more tofu. Give me

478
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: all the tofu.

479
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 3: You're like, this is the precursor to hormones?

480
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: Is tofu? Yeah, exactly. I have read diverging accounts of

481
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 2: the history of that particular song, the fascist Anthem. Rather

482
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: than tracking it to the Mandine, I would guess it

483
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 2: was written a politically in nineteen oh nine, unless that

484
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 2: version was based on a Mandine song, which I don't know.

485
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 2: And that version is a song is called Farewell and

486
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 2: it was written by a soon to be fascist guy

487
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 2: named Joseeppe Blanc and it was written as a graduation

488
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 2: song for a university and it was popular among Italian

489
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: soldiers in World War One. It's very like pomp and

490
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 2: like here we go a march, and you know.

491
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 3: What is soon to be fascist mean in this case,

492
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 3: like what was he before he was fascist?

493
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: I don't know. Everything I read said it was written

494
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 2: a politically okay, but he became a fascist as soon

495
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 2: as fascism was available as an option.

496
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if it's the same in Italy,

497
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 3: but I feel like a political usually means okay with

498
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 3: the status quo.

499
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, And like I think he was just a

500
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 2: random conservative guy, whereas like a lot of the fascists

501
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: did come from the left, and usually when I run

502
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 2: across a fascist who came from the left, it's like

503
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 2: really explicitly put like it's explicitly said. So I don't

504
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: know what Guoseppe's up to besides writing a graduation song,

505
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: and then later he's explicitly a fascist, Okay. A lot

506
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 2: of the songs of World War II were popular World

507
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: War One songs. So he writes this graduation song and

508
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: then it was written as an anti fascist song before

509
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 2: it was written as a fascist song in nineteen twenty one.

510
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: But then Fascist did their own version like pretty much

511
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 2: right away, basically like everyone's just taken a popular song

512
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 2: and being like, we're gonna make this about our own shit, right,

513
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: And this is the song that they sang on their

514
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 2: March to Rome, which is what got Mussolini into power,

515
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: and Mussolini had the official version composed in nineteen twenty four,

516
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 2: Mussolini not only not like Pasta, he didn't like competition. Culturally.

517
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: In nineteen twenty eight, Italy banned all American music and

518
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: the They especially hated swing and jazz because those are

519
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 2: black genres.

520
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and revolutionary music, that's right.

521
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

522
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 2: And then all other foreign songs when they came into

523
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 2: the country had to be translated into Italian, including Italian

524
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 2: assizing the names of the singers.

525
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 3: But it's like exactly what the States does now. It's

526
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 3: like they anglicize everything. I'm like, totally, do we really

527
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 3: need to call Peri Paris? No, we can say Pirie.

528
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can just learn the word for the thing.

529
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 2: It's the name.

530
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 3: We can learn that, not even like something that we

531
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 3: don't have a sound in our language. Like I understand

532
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 3: a little bit totally because in Portuguese we have sounds

533
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 3: that we don't have in English, and I understand that

534
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 3: that's harder. But when there's no sound difference, there's no

535
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 3: reason to do this. Yeah, but I see Italy took

536
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 3: it to the extreme as usual.

537
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely, there's no there's no Peters in Italy

538
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 2: at this point. This is the only one I know

539
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: off the top of my head. Because Pietro. I tried

540
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 2: doing some translate Google Translate stuff earlier, and it was

541
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 2: like Peter, and I was like, who the hell is Peter,

542
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: I'm writing about Pietro. And I'm like, oh right, okay,

543
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: dear Google Translate, don't translate the name, thank you. Oh

544
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 2: my god. And in nineteen twenty nine, the fascist regime

545
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 2: banned all socialist songs, all anarchist songs, and all foreign

546
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: national anthems. So obviously everyone was like, oh, I guess

547
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: we're not allowed to sing, and so no one sang anymore. No,

548
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 2: of course, you're not going to stop anarchists from singing.

549
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 2: Anarchists songs are Italian him it's illegal.

550
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 3: I love how they also are like, you know, anarchists foreigners.

551
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 3: That's really the same. Anarchists are just.

552
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: Foreigners totally, which is extra funny because Italy is like

553
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: the primary exporter of anarchist assassins at this point.

554
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 3: Great because they have to leave Italy by the way,

555
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 3: They like, now I am a foreigner.

556
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 2: Well, and like every other country is like all anarchists

557
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 2: are foreigners, and by that they mean Italians at this point,

558
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 2: you know.

559
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah.

560
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: I think it was an Italian anarchist that killed Empress

561
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 3: CSI of the Habsburgs as well.

562
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: Oh shit, okay, I would believe it.

563
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 3: I think he was Italian. It was definitely an anarchist,

564
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 3: and he definitely said the thing all the anarchist assassins

565
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 3: of royalty said, which was like I did not kill

566
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 3: an empress.

567
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 2: I killed a position or like something totally that effect.

568
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 3: But I think it was Italian.

569
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, was she did she reign? Or was she just

570
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 2: a figurehead? Like like, was she was there an emperor?

571
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: Was there a mister empress?

572
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: Yeah?

573
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 3: So she was married to Franz Joseph and she was

574
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 3: It's a long story, but basically she was kind of

575
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 3: roped into it against her will actually.

576
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: And because it sounds like misogyny to kill a random woman.

577
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 3: Her big thing was like trying to be never around

578
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 3: her husband, so she traveled the world, and that she

579
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 3: actually got assassinated in Switzerland while she was traveling the

580
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 3: world and staying away from her husband, which is the

581
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 3: opposite of the romantic portrayal in The Empress, which I

582
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 3: wrote the book for.

583
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 2: Hm oh, okay, okay. I had always heard about that one,

584
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: and like, like one day I'm just going to do

585
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 2: a survey of anarchist assassinations and be like, did this

586
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 2: make the world better or worse? Because like anarchist got

587
00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 2: over this idea in like by like besides a time Americans, but.

588
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 3: I was gonna say Italians did not.

589
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, overall people move past like propaganda of the deed

590
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: and like moved more into trade union organizing and things

591
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: like that by the twentieth century. Anyway, whatever, this is

592
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 2: a complete Yeah.

593
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 3: They took us down.

594
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,959
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm excited to because this is one

595
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 2: of the ones I don't know as much about. And

596
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 2: I'm like in my mind, I'm like, well, kill the emperor,

597
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: kill the one that's in charge. Like if an Irish

598
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 2: person had killed the queen, I would not be like,

599
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 2: well that's immoral, you know, like whatever, because that person

600
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: was in charge. Yeah, you know when way in the past.

601
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: I'm only talking about way statute limitations ago. Anyway, I

602
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: don't think there's statue limitations on regist side.

603
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 3: Hilarious.

604
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 2: Anyway, By the time the Italian Civil War kicks off,

605
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 2: every faction has their own songs. It's just like kind

606
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: of a thing. Most of the most influential partisan groups

607
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: are from the communist parties, and they're usually part of

608
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: the Garibaldi Brigades, and the anthem of the Garibaldi Brigades

609
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: is called Fishia ivento The wind whistles, and its melody

610
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 2: is based on a Russian song. If you want the

611
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: single most iconic and actual song of partisan resistance, the

612
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: one that you can most easily source and say, this

613
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: is a partisan song, the song on the most people's

614
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: lips in the war, that was written for this war,

615
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: it is the Wind Whistles, And we're gonna listen to

616
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: a bit of in a second. But overall the lyrics

617
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: are like, our shoes are broken, but we must march

618
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: on to conquer the red spring, where the sun of

619
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: our future rises. Every street is our street. Every woman

620
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: sighs when we approach. Our hearts are strong. Gigi's making

621
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 2: an amazing face at this. Our hearts are strong. If

622
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: we die, other partisans will avenge us against the vile

623
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 2: trees and as fascists, the proud partisan returns home with

624
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 2: a red flag blowing in the wind. You know it's

625
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: a communist rebel song.

626
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 3: I love that we women are always on this sidelines,

627
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 3: just like swooning as they walk past. That's our main role, I.

628
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 2: Know, even though like just as involved in the partisan

629
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 2: struggle as men, like even from a like like many

630
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: of the many of them had guns and were shooting.

631
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: But that's not the only part of a partisan struggle,

632
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: running the messages, housing the people, running everything, feeding everyone,

633
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: Like the behind the scenes work is just as important.

634
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like part of that behind the scenes work

635
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 3: is swooning so that the men feel good about their totally.

636
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: They're like sitting around and they're like, oh God, those

637
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 2: fucking assholes are back in town. Like, oh, but we

638
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 2: got to keep their spirits all right, just pretend to

639
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: be impressed. Oh. Emotional labor, emotional labor of the partisan struggle.

640
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: This song was kind of uniquely written as a partisan

641
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 2: song bipartisans, and it was at least of those songs

642
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 2: that we're going to play today, And it was first

643
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: played on Christmas nineteen forty three, and we're gonna we're

644
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: gonna play a little clip of.

645
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 7: It, behand.

646
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 5: Scar Old.

647
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 8: Zabis Love.

648
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 9: You know.

649
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 2: I kind of like it musically.

650
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 3: It's got this like kind of I don't know, funeral

651
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 3: kind of march.

652
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: Kind of Yeah, that's probably why I like it. Belichaw

653
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: is happier than most of the music I listened to.

654
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 2: Other people were singing older songs. Everyone was singing older songs.

655
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: They're looking at the repertoire of like old radical songs

656
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: and also World War One songs. These are the two

657
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: main you know, because the old rebel songs are about

658
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: being a rebel, and the World War One songs are

659
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: about marching off of guns and stuff, and so you know,

660
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: you put the two together and what do you got. Everyone,

661
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 2: but especially the anarchists, sang Pietro Gorri's song Goodbye Beautiful Logano.

662
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 2: They often changed the lyrics to be like goodbye beautiful

663
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 2: Italy or wherever place or whatever.

664
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: They're like, no, Switzerland, We're not doing Switzerland.

665
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 2: It's Italy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And one of the verses

666
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 2: of that is in the of the originals, Goodbye Beautiful Logano,

667
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 2: Oh sweet pious Land, expelled without guilt. The anarchists go

668
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 2: away and leave, singing with hope in their hearts. It

669
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: is for you, the exploited, for you, the workers, that

670
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 2: we are shackled the same as criminals. Yet our idea

671
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: is only an idea of love, you know, an anarchist rebel.

672
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 6: Song Lugano, Beach's Got Shaddy, sasaku Ya, Nakichivam be.

673
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 4: Ebolaspiran Cycle, Eblaspersco.

674
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 2: I like that one too, I'm gonna say at the

675
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 2: end of each of them because I like them.

676
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 3: But yeah, they're all really great. It's funny to speak

677
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 3: a romance language and listen to them too, because like

678
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 3: you understand like thirty five percent of it and then

679
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 3: like there's words chunks in between that you're like.

680
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 2: I don't know, that makes sense. I got around Italy

681
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 2: with my terrible Spanish.

682
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 7: Yeah.

683
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 2: I also got around France with my terrible Spanish.

684
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 8: Yeah.

685
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 3: Anywhere with a romance language, you can get around with

686
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 3: another romance language, and it doesn't matter if you're good

687
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 3: at the romance language.

688
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, like the super basic thing

689
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 2: of like I would like to eat the food now

690
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: or whatever it is, you know.

691
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 3: Like give me directions I know right and left, Like.

692
00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally. Another anarchist partisan song to compare. Right,

693
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 2: you've got the anarchist partisan song that's like goodbye, beautiful

694
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: loganous anarchists. We fight for love, you know. This next

695
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 2: one is called Death to the Savoa Dynasty. Bathed in

696
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 2: waves of blood.

697
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:13,959
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.

698
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 7: On arm anybody, I'm out, I'm out that I like

699
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 7: that one.

700
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.

701
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 3: I love an upbeat song about killing.

702
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 2: Totally death to the King. And the best part about

703
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: it is the king was n't their enemy.

704
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 4: In this war.

705
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 2: That's so funny.

706
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 3: On brand though, on Brand, I know, I love it.

707
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 2: The non communist Catholic partisans who are fighting against fascism.

708
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: To be clear, there's obviously many Catholics who are on

709
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: the side of fascism, but you know they had their

710
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 2: own songs, like the one that I won't try and

711
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 2: say in Italian, but it translates to the rifleman has

712
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 2: a hundred feathers. And it was adapted from a war

713
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: song about from World War One about the Alpine Front,

714
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: and it was rewritten for the partisan struggle. The original

715
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 2: and I bring this up because it sounds a little

716
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 2: bit like bellachoo with dying with the beautiful flowers and stuff.

717
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 2: The original ends with if he falls from the high cliffs,

718
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 2: comfort your hearts because he falls amid the flowers and

719
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 2: does not care that he dies. And the partisan version,

720
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: the version we're going to listen to in a second,

721
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 2: ends with when he falls wounded, do not cry your heart,

722
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: because if someone dies free, he does not care about dying.

723
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

724
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's my fora into partisan songs. And wow,

725
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 2: that one. If you listen to the non partisan version,

726
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 2: it's like overwhelmingly catholic sounding. It's just like you listen,

727
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: it sounds like you're listening to Ava, Maria and or something.

728
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 9: You know.

729
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 3: Actually this one was already giving me like chorus in church.

730
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, which is why our biggest sponsor is

731
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 2: chorus class. Uh go learn to sing. I don't know,

732
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: but that's it's nice to sing with people. Here's a

733
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 2: bunch of ads and we're back. I also like that

734
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 2: the the two temperaments of these songs is either like

735
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 2: here we go off to our deaths and it's okay

736
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 2: that we die, or like, haha, we're off to war.

737
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 2: We're gonna die. You know, those are the two.

738
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 3: Vibes in the most upbeat way possible, and like, that's

739
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 3: actually my favorite genre of human of song of book

740
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 3: is like the funny upbeat darkness.

741
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 2: Yeah totally, I'll take it. And also the pure doom

742
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 2: and gloom. Right, but the like there's like a boring

743
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 2: doom and gloom where like, oh everything just sucks, not

744
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 2: the mopey doom and gloom, but it said the like

745
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 2: this is a beautiful way that we will all end,

746
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 2: you know.

747
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like our yeah doom and gloom, but like

748
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 3: the kind of horror novels that are like really beautiful

749
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 3: where it's like flowers are growing out of their grave.

750
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: Totally. You ever listen to this song. I'm not gonna

751
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 2: make everyone listen to it right now, but you're listen

752
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 2: to song Gloomy Sunday. It's a song that I'm going

753
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 2: to get the name of the country wrong. It's from

754
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: an Eastern European country, and it's like the death song.

755
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 2: And there's all these rumors that everyone who listens to

756
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: it dies. This is clearly not true, right, I mean, well, yes,

757
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 2: actually it's true. Everyone who listens to it dies, just

758
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: on the longer timeline eventually.

759
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:42,959
Speaker 5: Yeah.

760
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 2: And uh, there's a Damondic Gloss version that is just

761
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: astoundingly good. But it's basically this like.

762
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: It's composed by someone while living in Paris. Does that

763
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: mean anything to you?

764
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 2: Maybe? I think it's Hungarian the song because it's sometimes

765
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 2: just called the Hungarian suicide song. It's It's it's real dark.

766
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: Wrote a song around around the time of the Great Depression.

767
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: Uh oh uh Native hung he in his influence in

768
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: Native Hungary. Okay, yep, yep, yep, you're there, you were there,

769
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: your brain at it.

770
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 3: It's like the precursor to l Ron Hubbard's book that

771
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 3: you Can't Read or you Die because it's so amazing.

772
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, where it was like this song has been

773
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: done by so many people, like it's been done by

774
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 1: like Billie Holiday.

775
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 2: I feel like it's been dead. Yeah yeah, wow, everyone

776
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:31,720
Speaker 2: ever is saying it dies.

777
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, oh yeah, it's I didn't know it

778
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 5: had such a huge historical background.

779
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: But it's a cool fucking song.

780
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 2: It is anyway, that's my other vibe. There's a really good,

781
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: uh funeral Doom version of it by Oh Now I'm

782
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 2: just gonna forget the name of the band, and everyone's

783
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: giving so annoyed that the three people who know what

784
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 2: funeral Doom is as a genre are now mad at me.

785
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 2: But it's real good.

786
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 3: Gluis said, day is cool.

787
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 5: It's so I'm gonna look it upside Foreign Death. I'm

788
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 5: kurestige with the last breath of my soul. I'll be

789
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 5: blessing you gloomy Sunday. Right, Yeah, it's fucking cool.

790
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,720
Speaker 2: Yeah cool. And it's just a you know, is everyone

791
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 2: gonna be mad if I want to die too, just

792
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 2: because you're dead. It's a this is a fun tangent.

793
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 2: So dark anyway, Well like when you're listening to this,

794
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 2: it's like a week ago is the darkest time of year.

795
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 3: So hmm.

796
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 2: Anyway, the rebels kept songbooks. They literally passed and printed

797
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 2: out sheets with their songs and their sheet music with

798
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 2: each other. None of these have Belichow. There are attestations

799
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 2: from partisans saying, well they sang it over there and

800
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: such and such brigades, but no one's saying like, well

801
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 2: we sang it. M that's not true. Oh my god,

802
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about this script. There is the woman who

803
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: says we sang it and she's just ignored. Oh my god. Wow,

804
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: she even has a name. And I'm gonna get to

805
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 2: it in a second. Immediately after the war, people collected

806
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: partisan songbooks together, and for the first eight years none

807
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 2: of the books had the song Belachow. This is like

808
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 2: the main argument against Belichow. Haven't been sung by partisans.

809
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 2: Are these two things combined? But some people were saying, yes,

810
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 2: this existed. The one Italian folk musician, Carlo Pestelli, who

811
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 2: was born in nineteen seventy three, So it wasn't there,

812
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: he said in Prague in nineteen forty seven, during the

813
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 2: First World Festival of Youth and Students, a group of

814
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:26,760
Speaker 2: former combatants from Amelia successfully spread Belachow. But then another historian,

815
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:28,919
Speaker 2: the historian who's kind of on the no when sang

816
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 2: it page is like. I tried to follow that up

817
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 2: and I found no evidence of it being sung. But

818
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 2: he also didn't present like a song list. I don't

819
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 2: know wild the first mention of it. It's so funny

820
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 2: to be in combat with my own earlier version of

821
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 2: the script as I read this. The first mention of

822
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: it wasn't until nineteen fifty three, when a magazine called

823
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 2: Lalapa mentioned it, which is interesting because it seems to

824
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 2: be a Spanish word and not an Italian word. I

825
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 2: don't know. Then in nineteen fifty five it's in a

826
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: collection of partisan songs, and then another collection from nineteen

827
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: sixty includes it, but its source is that nineteen fifty

828
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 2: five book, and they claimed that it was adapted from

829
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 2: a famous World War One song. This is almost certainly

830
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 2: not true. There does not appear to be a famous

831
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 2: World War One song Belichow. Then in nineteen sixty four

832
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: the song appeared when a former mandina named Giovanni Daffini

833
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 2: sang it at a festival, and basically she's like, this

834
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 2: is a mandina song, and then it became a partisan song,

835
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 2: and she sang both versions. And she was the one

836
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 2: who in the nineteen thirties had written that verse about

837
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: how we'll all be free one day, and there's like

838
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 2: oral attestations of that being true. The next year, a

839
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: man named Vasco Sconciani said he was the one who

840
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 2: wrote the song down. And the way that the skeptical

841
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 2: historians present this is he's the one who said he

842
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 2: wrote the song, and he is sometimes credited as the songwriter,

843
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 2: but historian Diana Garvin has traced it earlier, so he's

844
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,760
Speaker 2: the guy wrote it down, which he did in nineteen

845
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 2: fifty one. For Tefani. This is a very familiar tale

846
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 2: in folk music, is that a guy writes it down eventually,

847
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 2: and so people were like, oh, he's the guy who

848
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 2: wrote it.

849
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the it's like the documentation bias meets with misogyny.

850
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Look, it's enough for me that Defani went

851
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 2: and said that this is the song that we did.

852
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 2: And there's also all this other evidence of Mundane saying, yeah,

853
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,479
Speaker 2: she wrote the following verse. You know, so she wasn't lying.

854
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 2: There's no reason to believe she was lying when she

855
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: said it was an old Monday a song. So why

856
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 2: would she be lying that there's a partisan version. I

857
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 2: think it just avoided being written down, and it was

858
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: a non partisan partisan song. If I played you songs

859
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: for the communists and the anarchists and the Catholics, but

860
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 2: Bella Chow wasn't attached to a specific political ideology and

861
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,760
Speaker 2: it was not claimed by one. It was a partisan

862
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 2: song for everyone. And frankly, it was also catchier than

863
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 2: most songs of that era.

864
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, like it survived because it's still catchy to us today,

865
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 3: like with our different tastes.

866
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: Right, the reason that it might not have gotten written

867
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 2: down at first was that it wasn't for anybody. But

868
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 2: the reason it survived and is the song of the

869
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 2: resistance is because therefore is for everybody, right, and the

870
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 2: fact that it's catchy as hell, and we'll tie that

871
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 2: to Croatia in a second. In nineteen seventy four, somebody

872
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: else said that they wrote the original version of the

873
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 2: song of the Mandine version an ex caribbeanari. An ex

874
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: cop basically says that he wrote it in the nineteen

875
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 2: thirties for a girl he liked in Mandine, but he

876
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 2: couldn't register the song because of a fascist dictatorship. I

877
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 2: think he was an anti fascist, that's my implication. And

878
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 2: so those facts like, ah, these guys say they wrote

879
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 2: it was like the reason that it was sort of

880
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 2: stripped away and like, oh, this wasn't real. You know,

881
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 2: all of these things can be true. It could have

882
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 2: been written by this ex cop for a girl who

883
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: sang it in the feats. That's where bella chow would

884
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 2: have come from. The actual literal goodbye beautiful, because that's

885
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 2: the part that in the Mandine version. Historians are like,

886
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 2: I don't know why that part's there, Like what are

887
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,240
Speaker 2: they saying goodbye to? We're not sure If this guy's

888
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 2: like goodbye beautiful, you're off to go work in the fields,

889
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 2: he probably wrote her a song and they were like,

890
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 2: we're not going to sing this song about like goodbye,

891
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 2: you're off to go work. We're going to sing a

892
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 2: song about how much it sucks to work. And so

893
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 2: then the Mandine wrote the Mandine version of the song

894
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 2: about their working conditions. Then a Mondina woman added verses

895
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 2: about needing to be free to it and made it

896
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: a rebel song. Then all of these Mondine became partisans

897
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 2: and took the song with them. And so either they

898
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 2: were just singing it the partisan version all throughout the war,

899
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 2: or like everyone else, they're just singing old rebel songs

900
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: that aren't about the war, right, Like we want to

901
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: Kill the King wasn't a partisan song, but people with

902
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: guns like singing it. You know, I'm sure the king

903
00:47:59,600 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 2: loved that.

904
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's like a plus, super happy with this.

905
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

906
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 2: It's like how we're watching right now, Like you can

907
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: like shoot up a school full of kids and it's

908
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 2: not terrorism, and you kill a CEO and like now

909
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: it's terrorism.

910
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, the CEO is all just take their

911
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 3: information off their websites and now it's terrorism.

912
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. As soon as anarchists started killing kings back in

913
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 2: the day, they literally invented international policing. They were like, oh,

914
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 2: we got to do some about this.

915
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 3: Whoops, people realized that we're horrible.

916
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so then probably in the nineteen fifties, that

917
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 2: guy wrote down the version of it for his friend

918
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 2: and gave it to her right, and then she sang

919
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 2: it at a festival in nineteen sixty four. This feels

920
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 2: like the most likely version for me. As for the melody,

921
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 2: it's older. Still, it might be fucking ancient for all

922
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 2: I know. But we know that in the year eighteen

923
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 2: ninety nine in Odessa and what's currently Ukraine, a Christian

924
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 2: roma man was born who grew up speaking Biddish. His

925
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,959
Speaker 2: name was Mishka Ziganoff. He moved to New York City

926
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 2: and in nineteen nineteen he recorded a Klesmer song on

927
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 2: accordion called colon or Cole. And here's some of that recording.

928
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 1: That's so fun.

929
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 3: I know, you feel the bellichow, you feel bellichow, and.

930
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 2: The first couple of notes like that just it hits

931
00:49:58,040 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 2: as belichow.

932
00:49:59,280 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

933
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 2: It's not note for note the modern belichiw. But the

934
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 2: beginning is no one's exactly sure where the melody originated,

935
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: other than that I read like eight different countries that

936
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 2: people claimed the most likely. The one that seemed to

937
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 2: come up the most was Dalmatia, which is part of Croatia,

938
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 2: now which I had it never occurred to me that

939
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 2: the Dalmatian dog is named because there was a place

940
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:28,879
Speaker 2: called Dalmatia, indeed obvious in retrospect, and so most people

941
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 2: point there as the origin of the Klesmer melody of it.

942
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 2: One writer Fausto Giavnardi conjectures that an Italian immigrant in

943
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 2: New York City might have gone back home and brought

944
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 2: the melody back with him, and this seems like the

945
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 2: most likely. It also could have easily just come into

946
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 2: Italy more directly some other person, like coming from Odessa

947
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 2: or Croatia or like anywhere that this melody could have been.

948
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 2: You know, so fuck yeah. The Partisans sang a song

949
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 2: popularized by a Yiddish speaking Christian roma man in New

950
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 2: York City, turned into a love song by a guy,

951
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 2: turned into a work song, turned into a rebel work song,

952
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 2: then turned into a rebels with gun song, turned into

953
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 2: what might be kind of the internationalist anthem of the

954
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 2: left in the world, and since World War Two, Belachow

955
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 2: has spread around the world as a resistance song. You

956
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 2: can hear it basically anywhere there's a street movement against

957
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 2: the right wing. The first time I heard it was

958
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 2: in Kurdish twenty five years ago in Amsterdam, at an

959
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 2: anarchist bar, where a Kurdish exile sang it to us.

960
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 2: I saw people bored of hearing it from that marching

961
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 2: band in France, and I also saw people excited as

962
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:43,240
Speaker 2: hell by it in the same marching band. The Italian

963
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 2: prime minister gets jeered with it. In October of this year,

964
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 2: the far right Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orban showed up

965
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 2: at the European Parliament and a bunch of leftist MEPs

966
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 2: stood up and sang bela chow at him.

967
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 3: I love that so much, like I love songs as

968
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 3: test like that is such a cool tradition, and it's

969
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 3: been all over the world in so many different contexts,

970
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 3: so like, Yeah, I don't know if you know anything

971
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 3: about the singing revolution in the Baltic States, so like

972
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 3: as the Soviet Union was like under Gorbachev and things

973
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 3: had gotten a little bit less horrific for people. Basically Estonia, Latvia,

974
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 3: and Lithuania in slightly different ways. I know most about Estonia,

975
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 3: but they started what's called the Singing Revolution, and basically

976
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 3: it started out by singing illegal like nationalist Estonian songs

977
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 3: in the Estonian language, and instead of flying the Estonian flag,

978
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 3: which was illegal, they would fly flags with each of

979
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 3: the colors of the Estonian flag as like a loophole.

980
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, I was in Estonia once when I was

981
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 2: a teenager, and I went to a flea market and

982
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 2: bought a shirt that I wish I still had so desperately.

983
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 2: And it was this shirt that the front said mclennon's

984
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 2: and it was Lenin's face over McDonald's logo, and the

985
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 2: back said the party is over. And it was like

986
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 2: a burnt and broken hammer and sickle like red star

987
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 2: because they were just like so happy that the Soviet

988
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 2: Union had fallen, you know.

989
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they, I mean they suffered, people suffered enormously.

990
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 3: They're like a lot of people had to flee, like

991
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands had to flee, more than I believe

992
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 3: still more hundreds of thousands were sent to Siberian camps

993
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 3: and never came back.

994
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe it. And like I like the idea

995
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,279
Speaker 2: of singing Belichow at people as a protest, partly because

996
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 2: it's not just like here's a song about resistance. It's like, hey,

997
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 2: we're gonna shoot you if you keep doing this, you know.

998
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 2: It's like, this is a song about people who killed fascists.

999
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 2: Because fascism will fail, we will do it again. It's

1000
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 2: gonna suck, but we're going to do it again. Ukrainian

1001
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 2: soldiers sing it into trenches. There's like this viral video

1002
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 2: from about two years ago of two women in the trenches.

1003
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 2: One of them's loading magazines for her rifle while they

1004
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:02,760
Speaker 2: sing Belichow and Ukrainian. And there's a video of Iranian

1005
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,800
Speaker 2: women singing it without hajab and they're singing in Farsi

1006
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 2: and it went viral. A couple of years ago, the

1007
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 2: internationalist forces in the YPG in Reshava sing this song

1008
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,879
Speaker 2: and like it's a good song and it's our song,

1009
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 2: and it was given to us by working women in Italy,

1010
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 2: and it was sung bipartisans. Whether it was sung in

1011
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,800
Speaker 2: the Mondine version or whether it was sung in the

1012
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 2: partisan version, I almost don't care.

1013
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, like the revolutionary history

1014
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 3: kind of, I don't know it. Sometimes it doesn't matter

1015
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 3: if it's the exact wording or the exact you know

1016
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 3: history or this exact person wrote it. It's like it's

1017
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,280
Speaker 3: still made this impact, that's still ringing today.

1018
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's an internationalist song in its core because

1019
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: it's not an Italian melody. We just listened to a

1020
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 2: lot of Italian songs. It doesn't sound like them, you know.

1021
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 2: And even the wind whistles, the other big partisan song,

1022
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 2: the melody came from Russia, you know. And yeah, international

1023
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:04,399
Speaker 2: is great and fascism sucks. That's my that's the moral

1024
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 2: of the story. People are gonna be shocked. People have

1025
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 2: been listening for three years now and they're like, wait, what,

1026
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 2: Margaret's on that page.

1027
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:11,959
Speaker 3: You've done a full U turn.

1028
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:17,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. But yeah, that's the story of Bellachow. If copyright

1029
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:19,760
Speaker 2: were a different thing, I would now play you new versions.

1030
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 2: But you can go listen to yourself on YouTube.

1031
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 3: Thank you for this. This is so interesting. Like, I

1032
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 3: actually one of the things that I feel like as

1033
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,720
Speaker 3: a gap in my historical knowledge is the like revolutionary

1034
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,479
Speaker 3: history of music. I've been starting to get a little

1035
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 3: bit more into jazz, but like I feel like I

1036
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 3: know very little about it. So now I feel like

1037
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 3: I want to just go listen to Bella Chow for

1038
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 3: the rest.

1039
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 9: Of the.

1040
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,479
Speaker 2: That's what I did as soon as I finished this script.

1041
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 2: As I went and listened to all kinds of versions,

1042
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 2: and yeah, I can, I can od on it, but

1043
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 2: I always come back to it. It's always it's always

1044
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 2: waiting for me.

1045
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm the kind of person that I'll take a

1046
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 3: song and just listen to it like three thousand times

1047
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 3: in a row, and then not listen to it for

1048
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 3: a year, and then come back and listen three thousand

1049
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 3: more times.

1050
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's the There's like a meme around that about

1051
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 2: like we're gonna ring every little bit of dopamine out.

1052
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 3: Of the song, you know, and not come back until

1053
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 3: it's replenished itself.

1054
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And this song's full of it and got

1055
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:17,359
Speaker 2: plenty of dopamine in this one.

1056
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:18,399
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

1057
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, So if people like history, they might like

1058
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 2: your stuff.

1059
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 6: Is that?

1060
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 2: Is that a fair way to put it?

1061
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 3: That is a fair way to put it. I think

1062
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 3: if people like history, the first thing that I need

1063
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 3: to plug is The Sapling Cage by Margaret Kiljoy, because

1064
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 3: even though it's not historical fiction, you really can feel

1065
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,399
Speaker 3: the historical knowledge in it, like I've actually never read

1066
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 3: a book before where I felt like the background of

1067
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:45,240
Speaker 3: the book had all of these different ways of organizing

1068
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 3: society cleverly hidden in it, and I was just very

1069
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 3: delighted by this.

1070
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1071
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 3: So first I'll plug Margaret, and then yeah, if you

1072
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 3: like history, if you like historical fiction, some of my

1073
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 3: So my books for adults are mostly just like historical

1074
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 3: adventure historical fiction, and my books for teens are mostly

1075
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 3: historical horror. So my most recent book is called We

1076
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 3: Are the Beasts, and it is based on the story

1077
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 3: of the Beast of Debanon, which was a true, real

1078
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 3: thing unsolved mystery of this creature that.

1079
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 2: Kills Was it probably a wolf? I just assume it

1080
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 2: was a wolf.

1081
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 3: I don't think it is a wolf. Oh, I don't

1082
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 3: think it is a wolf. So okay, little tangent.

1083
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's hear. I want to hear what you think

1084
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 2: it is.

1085
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so well, I'm not going to tell you if

1086
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 3: you can read the book and find out what I

1087
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 3: think it is. Oh, but I will cool my tangent.

1088
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 9: Is.

1089
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 3: The reason I don't think it is a wolf is

1090
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 3: that lots and lots of peasants saw this creature and

1091
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 3: described it and said it wasn't a wolf. And the

1092
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 3: only reason that people are like it's a wolf is

1093
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 3: because they don't believe poor people.

1094
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, okay, Okay.

1095
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 3: So I'm like, the peasantry is telling you, like literally

1096
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 3: hundreds of people saw it and survived or got mauled

1097
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 3: and survived or whatever and saw it real up close

1098
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 3: and described it, and they're like, it is not a wolf.

1099
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 3: They have seen wolves before, there's lots of wolves in

1100
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 3: that region. They're like, this is something else. And so

1101
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 3: I'm like, I believe them. I believe them when they

1102
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 3: and not only were they not believed because they're poor,

1103
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 3: but they're also young women. So I believe them when

1104
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 3: they say it's not a wolf.

1105
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 2: I just assumed it was a wolf.

1106
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 3: Sorry, now we're on that. But so basically the book,

1107
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 3: I've been fascinated by the Beast's history for a while,

1108
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 3: but I wasn't sure I wanted to write the book

1109
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 3: because it's like just a bunch of dead shepherdesses, and

1110
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 3: I think we have a problem in fiction where we

1111
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 3: just kind of walk over the corpses of dead women.

1112
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 3: So I was like, actually, I'm going to write it

1113
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 3: as a monster story about saving girls. So the two

1114
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 3: main characters decide to use the appearance of the beast

1115
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 3: in their region as a way to fake the deaths

1116
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 3: of girls who are in dire situations in their own homes.

1117
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah, I literally think I'm going to order

1118
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 2: it as soon as we get off this call. I'll

1119
00:58:58,880 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 2: send it to you.

1120
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 3: Margaret, you don't have okay.

1121
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 2: Well I will. Well, then you listener should order it.

1122
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 2: But I'm special and I get a free copy. All

1123
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 2: I had to do is write lots of books. Oh right, yep,

1124
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 2: writers just send each other their books for free. Anyways, Well,

1125
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 2: my plug's already been plugged, Sophie, you got anything.

1126
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 1: Uh, just follow a cool Zone Media on blue Sky,

1127
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: Twitter x and the Instagram, so we post all the

1128
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: current things cool.

1129
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 2: All right, Well we'll see you I think next week

1130
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 2: where we'll be back with more Cool People Did Cool Stuff?

1131
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 2: And or I think probably actually a Q and A.

1132
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 2: But I don't know whatever whatever's next is next, You'll

1133
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 2: just deal with it.

1134
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: Hye.

1135
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 9: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1136
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 9: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

1137
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 9: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out

1138
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 9: on the iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1139
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 9: your podcasts. W