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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Scott Sasman, I'm Evan Nobi Williams, and I'm

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Speaker 1: Michael Barr. And this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast,

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Speaker 1: where we double explore the big money issues in the

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Speaker 1: world of sports. Were TV Evan, Evan should have his

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Speaker 1: own podcast. I'm not interrupting you, Bar, I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to say that I think Evan should have his own podcast.

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Speaker 1: You with the voice, Evan with the knowledge. You know this.

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Speaker 1: Evan is being really quiet about this, Steak. Come on, Evan,

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Speaker 1: chime in. I love the three that we have here.

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Speaker 1: We have a good. We have a good that reinforced

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Speaker 1: the wee yes yes for those don't know. We're having

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Speaker 1: some fun with one of our Twitter followers who suggested

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Speaker 1: I interrupt too much and I'm annoying, very annoying, use

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Speaker 1: the bad word, very annoying. Bar, I'm kind of clueless,

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Speaker 1: kind of clueless. Grateful voice though, great voice, though we

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Speaker 1: consistently get. Michael Barr's voice is the biggest compliment, and

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Speaker 1: I think the three of us get yes on the

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Speaker 1: whole only thing complimented should have his own show, and

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'll have ours. That's it now, you

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Speaker 1: know what we're glad to get the feedback, and uh,

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Speaker 1: we are appreciative. And you know what, and as and

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Speaker 1: as I had written back to the Twitter follower, I said,

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Speaker 1: you're right, Evan is great, but Scott is a gem too,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna try very hard to win this personal Well,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to try. I guess I have to try.

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Speaker 1: If I did go and start my own show, that

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Speaker 1: would be quite a revolution from within the ranks, which

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Speaker 1: translates very well to our first topic, right, yes, doesn't Well,

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Speaker 1: I see where you're going, Paul Rabe. How does that?

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Speaker 1: How does that make it nice? He's essentially doing right,

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Speaker 1: He's starting his own thing from within a bigger revolutionary

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Speaker 1: not revolution. We're just trying to get us on topic.

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Speaker 1: Five minutes into the Show's alright, this is a good one, bar,

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Speaker 1: So what do you think we broke the story here?

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Speaker 1: Paul Rabel, perhaps the best known lacrosse player with a

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Speaker 1: keen business mind, has an eye on starting with investment

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Speaker 1: from let's say, with Wall Street, with sports and entertainment

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Speaker 1: led by Rain Group, his own outdoor lacrosse league in essence,

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Speaker 1: taking on MLLL. And he's getting some players that have

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Speaker 1: already signed up some strong players. And let's keep in

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Speaker 1: mind too, even in the regular uh lacrosse league, the

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Speaker 1: guys still have to have a second job. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is like you know old time sports from years ago,

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Speaker 1: where you know the players play football and then you

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Speaker 1: know they're selling insurance in the off season. Well, this

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Speaker 1: is the same way it is for a lacrosse player,

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Speaker 1: but now there's more money involved. Well, as we spoke

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Speaker 1: about on the last show or last week, mL has

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Speaker 1: decided to increase the salary cap by at a roster spot.

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Speaker 1: You get the sense that perhaps they knew something was

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Speaker 1: coming here, that the players were responding. From my understanding,

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Speaker 1: players had to notify MLLL if they had an option

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Speaker 1: or if they were given the chance to go to

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Speaker 1: another league, and those forms started to come in, so

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Speaker 1: obviously they knew something was up. Now it's a question

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Speaker 1: of this style league. This is not going to be

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Speaker 1: a team in a city. This is gonna be six

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Speaker 1: teams traveling to a city per weekend and playing sort

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Speaker 1: of like a festival style like the n c A

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Speaker 1: Final Four. So give us a sense here of I

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Speaker 1: mean a how realistic this thing is of succeeding and

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Speaker 1: B is this is this a zero sum game? Are

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Speaker 1: we three years from now? Is the MLL gone or

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Speaker 1: or is Paul's venture not successful? Can they coexist as

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Speaker 1: two different outdoor lacrosse property be surprised if there was

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Speaker 1: enough room from multiple leagues. The end on the outdoors different.

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Speaker 1: This new league, the p a L Premier Lacrosse League, Um,

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Speaker 1: the players will be full time, they will get health benefits,

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Speaker 1: and they will get equity. So it seems the selling

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Speaker 1: point here is all the things you've been asking for

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Speaker 1: come to our league and we can give it to you.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's better. I'm not saying it's worse.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying it seems as if Paul has his ear

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Speaker 1: to what the players have been asking for. And if

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Speaker 1: you don't have the name brand players in lacrosse, you

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Speaker 1: don't got the best guys in the world, it's just

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Speaker 1: not gonna work. So Paul. I think Paul's onto something

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Speaker 1: here in that if he can get the best players

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Speaker 1: to come to his league. The hardcore lacrosse fan out there, well,

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Speaker 1: it's never gonna be the NFL, but there are certainly

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Speaker 1: enough eyeballs out there with an attractiveness to advertisers because

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Speaker 1: of the financial demographic of the sport and the fans

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Speaker 1: that they can make a go of it. And if

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Speaker 1: your MLL your argument kind of for fans to stick around,

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Speaker 1: and I guess for players to stick around is that

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Speaker 1: you have brand. You have teams that have their own

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Speaker 1: brands built in cities. If you're a fan of the

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Speaker 1: Denver Outlaws, are the Boston Cannons, you know, and you

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Speaker 1: care about that as a franchise, Uh, you should be

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Speaker 1: sticking around with mL Yeah, I mean that would be

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Speaker 1: the selling point. Ultimately, though, you say, what are you

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Speaker 1: gonna pay me? Right? If you're an athlete, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be how much? How much can I get? Do I

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Speaker 1: have to go get a second job? Or can I

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Speaker 1: be a full time lacrosse player? Am I gonna get equity?

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Speaker 1: A little slice of it all? Like I am in

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Speaker 1: this other league? Do I get health insurance like I

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Speaker 1: am in this other league? Those are the things more

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Speaker 1: and more, even in the biggest, the big stick and

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Speaker 1: ball sports. We're talking baseball football more and more, these

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Speaker 1: off the field issues are what are driving the CBA discussions.

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Speaker 1: The dollars and cents are always gonna matter yes, but

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Speaker 1: more and more, it's about health. It's about safety, it's

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Speaker 1: about retirement plan, it's about healthcare. Those are the conversations

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Speaker 1: going on at the richest sport level. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: we'll see both from a media and a sponsorship level,

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Speaker 1: brands and networks kind of straddling both properties, at least

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Speaker 1: in the beginning. I mean, let's face it, lacrosse is

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Speaker 1: in this expensive property as basketball or football. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if we'll see brands that are, like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: let's do both and if you're right, if it is

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Speaker 1: zero sum, let's let's be in both. And in three years,

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Speaker 1: when one of them is emerged as the clear winner

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Speaker 1: and kicks the other one out, we've at least been

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Speaker 1: there for a while. Well, that's just just gonna say

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Speaker 1: this about the broadcasting rights. Now, I didn't reveal all

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Speaker 1: about it yet, but that's what it really is. Also

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Speaker 1: going to play a major role in this. But my guests,

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Speaker 1: in talking to some players, my guess is that the

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Speaker 1: talks that are going right now are with the major

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Speaker 1: brand networks. So if you're concerned where am I going

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Speaker 1: to play? Uh, my guests would be when it all

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Speaker 1: shakes out, you're gonna say, oh, this this new league.

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Speaker 1: They've got some pretty serious broadcast partners and it is

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Speaker 1: going to be visible, it is going to be distributed.

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Speaker 1: That's a pretty good thing. Let's talk about Nike, and

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Speaker 1: they're feeling good and proud about the Colin Kaepernick campaign.

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Speaker 1: Nike declared it's it's earnings this week. Uh much watched.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's been a new company that's been in

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Speaker 1: the news, probably for good and bad depending on who

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Speaker 1: you are, a lot in the past few months. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The earnings were good ish. You know that the stock

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Speaker 1: is down a little bit. Uh in after hours trading

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Speaker 1: after the announcement came out that said the revenue beat

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Speaker 1: projections nine point nine billion dollars in the quarter. They're

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Speaker 1: on pace. It seems like to have a forty billion

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Speaker 1: dollar revenue year. Um. Things look like they're pretty healthy

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Speaker 1: for Nike. Have been explained to the listeners what they

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Speaker 1: missed on was gross margins and apparently what that triggers

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Speaker 1: is the concern about profitability and higher production costs. In essence,

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Speaker 1: what am I right? What investors want to see is

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Speaker 1: that Nike and strengthening its own channels that they want

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Speaker 1: to distribute, create, distribute, sell more on Nike dot Com

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Speaker 1: in Nike town. They don't want to have to rely

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Speaker 1: on let's say foot lock exactly. Yeah, the Nike about

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Speaker 1: about two thirds of their business, two thirds of their revenue,

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Speaker 1: their sales go through retail channels, you know, whether that's Dick's,

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Speaker 1: whether that's Footlocker, whether that's uh, you know, the Nordstrom

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Speaker 1: right now. Um, they are trying to wean themselves off

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Speaker 1: of that reliance because, let's face it, retail is changing.

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Speaker 1: People aren't going to brick and mortar stores and margins exactly.

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Speaker 1: And that's the other thing. If Nike sells you Nike

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Speaker 1: shoes on Nike dot com, there's more margins and they

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Speaker 1: can control the pricing, they can control the brand flow,

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Speaker 1: they can control what what that looks like when they

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Speaker 1: sell it. They have a lot more control, and the

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Speaker 1: margins are better. Yes, So investors are really looking at, Okay,

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Speaker 1: how can Nike move this shift to e commerce? How

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Speaker 1: well are they going to transition selling their products through

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Speaker 1: other people to selling them on their own channels, be

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Speaker 1: at Nike dot com, be at their apps, be at

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Speaker 1: their own Nike stores. Um. So margin growth, if growth

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Speaker 1: margins get better. That's a sign that Nike is doing

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Speaker 1: better in terms of selling them that way, uh, direct

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Speaker 1: to consumer. They missed on that on that specific piece

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Speaker 1: of the earnings. And that's something that that investors care

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Speaker 1: a lot about. You know why know this is working.

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Speaker 1: No matter how you stand on the ad, you know

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Speaker 1: why they add is working. The recent Emmy Awards, actress

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Lewis she who's wearing on the red carpet a Nike.

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Speaker 1: Was it a sweatshirt? Yeah, it was. It was a

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Speaker 1: sequence sweatshirt. And and and to be to be clear,

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Speaker 1: the earnings that were that were reported this week, that

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Speaker 1: was a quarter that closed right before the Colin Kaepernick

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Speaker 1: ad ended. But the CEO, Mark Parker, did talk about

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Speaker 1: the ADD a bit on the on the earnings call.

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Speaker 1: He made it clear that they're seeing record a record

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Speaker 1: engagement with with an advertising campaign. He thinks it's been

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Speaker 1: a positive from a commercial standpoint, certainly from an engagement standpoint.

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Speaker 1: H And he mentioned that that extends beyond the US,

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Speaker 1: which is something that you know, analysts that I've talked

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Speaker 1: to NFL players don't really resonate much in in China

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Speaker 1: right now. They don't really meastion that much in Africa

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Speaker 1: in the Middle East. Uh. If that was something that

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Speaker 1: caught the attention of consumers outside of the US, that's

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Speaker 1: a huge success. You know. The adage in law, never

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Speaker 1: asked a question you don't know the answer to something.

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Speaker 1: Tells me Nike had done enough research where they might

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Speaker 1: have had an inkling as to where this was going

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Speaker 1: to no question, and and you know, it's it's a

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Speaker 1: nice reminder that a lot of times the things that

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Speaker 1: we talk about as sports fans or even sometimes in

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Speaker 1: sports media about the effect they have on companies like Nike.

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Speaker 1: You know, investors want to know what the FX headwinds

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Speaker 1: and tail winds are. You know, how Nike has balanced

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Speaker 1: currency changes, and how clean their inventory is in terms

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Speaker 1: of what has to be sold at its typical price

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Speaker 1: versus what has to be sold at a discounted price.

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Speaker 1: There's so much more that goes into kind of the

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Speaker 1: health of Nike as a company more than just you

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Speaker 1: know who they're sponsoring with and what athletes are wearing

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Speaker 1: their stuff. Let's talk about the Oklahoma Army football game.

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Speaker 1: Anybody see it? Some people, some intrepid people. So I

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Speaker 1: love this story. Yeah, this is this is fantastic. The

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma Army game, which was expected to be an absolute

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Speaker 1: blowout touchdown. The Sooners went into when overtime um, and

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Speaker 1: the game was not on TV. It was a it

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Speaker 1: was a pay per view offering by Fox and Cox

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Speaker 1: umty dollars, pretty expensive. And what happened. What happened was

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Speaker 1: somebody pulled their phone out, who bought the pay per view,

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Speaker 1: pulled their phone out, pointed it at the TV and

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Speaker 1: started a Twitch stream. Uh. And on Saturday people at

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Speaker 1: one point, we're watching this. Uh. It was this number

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Speaker 1: two most popular stream on Twitch at the time, alongside

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Speaker 1: all these other sports, all these other sports streams. Uh,

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Speaker 1: like with Ninja playing exactly. Um, pretty fascinating look at

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Speaker 1: You know, we've talked about Periscope in the past and

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Speaker 1: kind of pirate streams and all that. Thirty two thousand

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Speaker 1: is a big number. And this was I found out

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Speaker 1: about it on Twitter. It was in the open. It

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Speaker 1: was people were just retweeting the stream. There was no

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Speaker 1: secret that this guy with his camera sitting on his

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Speaker 1: couch and his phone out was broadcasting this to two

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Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of people. Is in that illegal? Yes?

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Speaker 1: To see the way different leagues like the NBA. When

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Speaker 1: you start doing things like this, they don't care. The

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Speaker 1: NBA has an open policy of fine, it's okay, well

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Speaker 1: technically know you you should be right soldiers and pay us.

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Speaker 1: But anything that promotes our game is good for us,

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Speaker 1: particularly internationally. So this this you know why this happened? Though?

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Speaker 1: Do you know why? Fox could have distributed anyway anyway

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Speaker 1: they want? This is interesting. Yeah, they could have done

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Speaker 1: this anyway they wanted. They chose to go the pay

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Speaker 1: per view route because Michael Barr Oklahoma fans pay for it.

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Speaker 1: They want to see their games, even a three touchdown

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Speaker 1: favorite game. Sometimes they pay like they you know they

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Speaker 1: say some school travel, Well they travel on TV. Well,

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Speaker 1: they pay for pay per view and have the right

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Speaker 1: to do whatever they want with one game each year.

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Speaker 1: This was the game they chose they put on pay

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Speaker 1: per view. I didn't see the numbers of how many

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Speaker 1: people actually paid for it, but this Twitch stream would

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Speaker 1: would seem to show that many did not, and then

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Speaker 1: they joined. If you multiply it out just rough numbers,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's one point six. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: money lost there. But you're right, I mean, if this

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Speaker 1: is indeed the most lucrative way for Fox to handle

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Speaker 1: that one game it gets from its Big twelve members. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that seems like a pretty nice way to do it. See,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't make a difference though, if it's your team

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Speaker 1: that you're rooting for, if it's a blowout, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: watch that game until they well they don't shoot the

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Speaker 1: gun off anymore, but the final whistle for the fourth quarter,

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Speaker 1: because you want to see how many points that your

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Speaker 1: team is going to rack up. Now, obviously if it

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Speaker 1: was the other way around, especially if you're in Jersey

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Speaker 1: making a bet on the game, some of these other stakes.

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Speaker 1: So the engagement we're talking about, So, Scott, last last podcast,

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Speaker 1: we discussed the Tiger film matchup pay per view. Knowing

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Speaker 1: now that Oklahoma Army was a fifty five dollar pay

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Speaker 1: per view, do you feel better about especially with Tiger winning. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel better about my chances of a very high

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Speaker 1: price point here. You got everybody who's settling is like, Hi,

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Speaker 1: I think it's gonna go high. It may not be

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Speaker 1: what I said is that high, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: a little higher. People want to see this. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: see golf parties you're gonna see some some guy is

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Speaker 1: gonna spend what you said and then invite all his

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Speaker 1: buddies over, and then they're gonna watch the golf party

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Speaker 1: and watch Phil and Tiger go at it. Yea. And

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Speaker 1: can we talk about like a field good moment. We

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Speaker 1: don't often do that, but I just happened to catch

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Speaker 1: it this morning. Did you see the Houston Astros game.

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Speaker 1: There's a video out there some eight year old girl

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Speaker 1: at seven or eight yog or whatever. She was cheering

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Speaker 1: very loudly as eight year old kids are wont to do,

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Speaker 1: and the woman in front of her with this nasty face,

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Speaker 1: turns around and was just sort of like stop it

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Speaker 1: because she was being loud, and you could see the girl,

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Speaker 1: you could see on her face she was just well

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Speaker 1: I don't know if she was scared or whatever, but

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Speaker 1: she just kind of shoulders short like that was it.

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Speaker 1: And like somebody said to her, like what did she

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Speaker 1: say to you? And she wouldn't even respond. So apparently

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Speaker 1: Lance mc colors, the picture for the Astros, saw this.

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Speaker 1: He's on Twitter saying, uh, you, I want you to

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Speaker 1: come to our playoff game. I'll leave you the tickets

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Speaker 1: and you cheer as loud and long as you possibly can.

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Speaker 1: And then there was somebody else on Twitter says, way

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Speaker 1: to go, Lance, You know what, I want to buy

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Speaker 1: her the jersey? Put it on me. You contact me,

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Speaker 1: I'll give you my credit card. You get her the jersey.

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Speaker 1: What let me go back? This isn't the library. You're

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Speaker 1: at a ball game. What what I almost said? Somebody

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to say, but it was, give me

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Speaker 1: a break. This is a ball game. This is and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna turn around. It's like, okay enough And I

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Speaker 1: don't even know you. If it was if my mom

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Speaker 1: was there, she probably would have slapped the living snot

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Speaker 1: out of that, could you, mama? Bar Who in the who?

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Speaker 1: Go check out of it? You see you see the woman?

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Speaker 1: She just looks angry and she's snaps at her. Oh

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Speaker 1: I would I would have excused me? Did you just

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Speaker 1: tell my kid to stop cheering? The Astros should have

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Speaker 1: this girl leading chance every home game and put that

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Speaker 1: other woman on the big score whenever she comes to

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Speaker 1: the photo shot the other team's jersey on the her.

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Speaker 1: But isn't that what we're supposed to do at games?

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Speaker 1: Like just cheer and be loud and obnoxious and have

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Speaker 1: gone to games where there's somebody. I had a kid

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Speaker 1: behind me in Portland one time they give out those thundersticks.

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Speaker 1: I mean he was banging these thundersticks behind with two

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Speaker 1: inches behind my ear for two and a half hours.

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Speaker 1: Did I turn around and tell the kid to stop?

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Speaker 1: That's what he's supposed to do. You're at a baseball

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Speaker 1: You're at a game. Who in the hell is this woman?

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Speaker 1: We'll find out somebody. Somebody's gonna idea. I haven't seen

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Speaker 1: it yet, but we'll go check out the video. I

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Speaker 1: think you're like, I'm sorry, I said, getting angry. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like you're at a ball game. It's almost like

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Speaker 1: some vendor spitness pizza. I I have gotten one shot

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Speaker 1: up to keep something. Yet the Tiger Stadium America a

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Speaker 1: huge on the pizza and then it's covered up with

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Speaker 1: sauce before serving it. Oh no, yeah, I have to

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Speaker 1: go see the story. Now. They had to shut down

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Speaker 1: that particular station, and obviously they threw out all the

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Speaker 1: food that was there, and like you said, the guy

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Speaker 1: got arrested. But you know it's a no brainer. Don't spit.

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Speaker 1: Don't spit in the pizza and I'm still not sure

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Speaker 1: what he was thinking. Well, that's it, that's I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I got a little riled up there.

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Speaker 1: That was yell at a kid at a ball game

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Speaker 1: for her. Yeah. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Michael Barr, along with Scott Sasnake and Evan Nobie

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Speaker 1: Williams here each and every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, exploring

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Speaker 1: the world of money and sports. Join us again at

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Speaker 1: the end of the week for our first ever E

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Speaker 1: sports specific guest. We'll be talking with Carlos Rodriguez, owner

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Speaker 1: and CEO of European E sports team G two L

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Speaker 1: the other one. I'm getting ready anymore. Yeah, you're listening

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Speaker 1: to The Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio around

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Speaker 1: the world and online as an Apple podcast on iTunes.