1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Zone media. 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 2: The past few weeks, my social media feeds have been 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: more apocalyptic than usual, Oddly enough, not due to the 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 2: escalating war with Ron, the shell shocked economy, or oil prices, 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: but because of a wave of posts and news articles 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: proclaiming impending doom for trans people in the United States. 7 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: Attacks on trans rites are obviously not new and have 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 2: steadily risen the past ten years, but this recent collection 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 2: of worrying claims are especially grim or outright genocidel justice months, 10 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 2: I've seen viral posts citing online articles saying that ICE 11 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: is going to round up and quote unquote disappear trans people, 12 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: that the FDA is making a quote unquote registry of 13 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: trans women, and that an adult trans healthcare ban is imminent. 14 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: Welcome to it could happen here? A show about things 15 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: falling apart. I'm Garrison Davis for this episode. I'd like 16 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: to emphasize the could in it could happen here. It's not. 17 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 2: It will definitely happen here, and there's nothing you can 18 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: do to stop it. These panic inducing claims and the 19 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 2: articles they're sourced from are referring to real things or 20 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 2: movements happening in either right wing activism or anti trans 21 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: policy and legislation, but are framed in a way to 22 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: maximize catastrophe, rather than actually understanding what's happening at the 23 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: moment and what we can do about it. Left unchecked, 24 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 2: panic clickbait reduces the process of staying informed to being 25 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: in a state of constant doom and feeling hopeless against 26 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: an unstoppable enemy. Or it makes someone completely check out 27 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: and not believe anything they see online even if there 28 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: is a real pressing threat, both of which cloud our 29 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: ability to assess and respond to very real threats. For 30 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 2: the book of this episode, I'm going to focus on 31 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: an article that claims ICE is now permitted to detain 32 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 2: anyone for quote unquote looking trans. This reporting and the 33 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: online discussion around it is a microcosmatic example of how 34 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: we understand both the Trump Administration's attacks on trans people 35 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: and how and why ICE operates as an agency. This 36 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 2: story could be traced to a sub stack post with 37 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: the headline trump administration opens the door for ICE to 38 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 2: target anyone suspected of being trans. The sub headline continues 39 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: by reading quote under a new rule, the State Department 40 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 2: will be able to revoke trans people's visas over quote 41 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 2: unquote misrepresentation. It'll give ICE grounds to suspect all trans 42 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 2: people of being in the US illegally unquote. The information 43 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: contained in this headline is the furthest many people will 44 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: engage with the content of this article. Combining that headline 45 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: with preconceis notions about how ICE functions under the second 46 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: Trump administration makes us a very frightening claim. So what 47 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 2: evidence does the substack article include to support this claim? 48 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 2: Earlier this month, the State Department updated its policy for 49 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: the Diversity Immigrant Visa Program, also known as the Green 50 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: Card Lottery. The new rules require that applicants upload a 51 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: scan of their foreign passports, biographic and signature page to 52 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 2: cut down on fraudulent Diversity Visa Program entries. The policy 53 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 2: update also changed the gender entry to sex on application forms. 54 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 2: In the policy rule update, the State Department wrote the 55 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: marker reflected in the sex field on any visa application, 56 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: including the entry form, should match the applicants' biological sex 57 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: at birth, even if that differs from the sex listed 58 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: on the applicants foreign passport or other identifying documentation. The 59 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: substack article claims this could form, say, quote, mismatch between 60 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: trans people's applications and their passports, something it can then 61 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: use to declare their applications fraudulent and disqualify them entirely. 62 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: On quote. 63 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 2: The first half of that sentence is true. A mismatch 64 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: may occur between the gender listed on foreign documents and 65 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 2: the sex the US government wants you to list on 66 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: a visa application, but it is simply not the case 67 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 2: that this mismatch will inevitably result in an application being 68 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 2: deemed fraudulent and then denied. The kind of fraud this 69 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 2: rule change is trying to combat by requiring a passport 70 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: scan is not unique to trans people, according to Malita Picasso, 71 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 2: staff attorney for the ACLUS LGBTQ and HIV Rights Project. 72 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 2: Picasso said in an email that the new rule quote 73 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 2: seems to more directly target fraudulent activities involving third parties, 74 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 2: basically entering the lottery on behalf of individuals without their 75 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: knowledge and consent, shorting them for large amounts of money 76 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: if they are selected. 77 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: Unquote. 78 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 2: The stipulation requiring an applicant to list their biological sex 79 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 2: at birth on forms has actually already been State Department 80 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 2: policy for both immigrant and non immigrant visa applications for 81 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: over a year, effectively since Trump's executive order mandating the 82 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: use government officially recognized two biological sexes, which are determined 83 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 2: at birth, and that quote government issued identity documents, including visas, 84 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 2: and all forms that require an individuals sex, shall accurately 85 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 2: reflect an individual's immutable biological classification as either male or 86 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: female unquote. There's just no basis for the claim that 87 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 2: a mismatch between the gender listed on a foreign document 88 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 2: and the sex marked on application forms will itself quote 89 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: unquote disqualify someone from receiving a visa. ACLU staff attorney 90 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 2: Melita Picasso told me that the new policy itself recognizes 91 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 2: this could cause discrepancies, and that she doesn't see a 92 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 2: quote new or heightened risk of being accused of fraud 93 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 2: or wilful misrepresentation if a transgender person follows the instructions 94 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: by listing their sex assigned at birth on the application, 95 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 2: even if they also file a per certificate that has 96 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 2: been updated to reflect. 97 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: Their gender identity. 98 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 2: The State Department has been aware for a while that 99 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 2: this kind of policy will create these kinds of mismatches. 100 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: A February twenty twenty five State Department memo reads, quote, 101 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 2: there may be instances when a consular officer becomes aware 102 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 2: that the sex listed on the foreign passport may not 103 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: be the applicant sex as defined in the executive order. 104 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: In such cases, the adjudicator should confirm the applicant sex 105 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: as defined in the executive order, indicate that sex on 106 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 2: the visa, and add a case note documenting any discrepancy 107 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 2: between the passport and the visa to prevent issues at 108 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 2: the port of entry unquote. Later, in April of twenty 109 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: twenty five, the United State States Citizenship Immigration Services officially 110 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 2: updated their policy on requiring quote unquote biological sex on 111 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: immigration applications. The policy also states that quote USCIS does 112 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 2: not deny any immigration benefits solely based on a failure 113 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 2: to properly indicate that benefit requesters sex unquote. A sale 114 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 2: U staff attorney Milita Picasso told me that USCIS officials 115 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 2: have quote unquote a lot of discretion and that the 116 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: policy says that failure to list biological sex quote will 117 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 2: cause delays in processing the application while USCIS tries to 118 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 2: verify your sex assigned at birth unquote. Now, the State 119 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 2: Department has said there are grounds to deny these applications 120 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 2: for trans people if they make a quote willful affirmative 121 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 2: material act of misrepresentation by misrepresenting their quote unquote biological 122 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 2: sex at birth in application forms or to a consular 123 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: officer to gain entry to the United States under false pretenses. 124 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: Legally qualifying as willful mess representation is a relatively high bar, 125 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 2: and this language was specifically written with the intent to 126 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 2: restrict trans athletes from entering the country to play sports. 127 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: The sort of misrepresentation the State Department is talking about 128 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: is if a trans woman quote unquote misrepresents her birth 129 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 2: sex to procure a visa or admission into the United 130 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 2: States for the purpose of competing in a women's sports competition. 131 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 2: This same sports related memo, dated February twenty fourth, twenty 132 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 2: twenty five, also states, quote if there is a discrepancy 133 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: either in the applicants documents or in electronic constantly records, 134 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: or if other evidence casts reasonable doubt on the applicant sex, 135 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 2: you should refuse the case under two to two one 136 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: G and request additional evidence to demonstrate sex at birth unquote. 137 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 2: Section two two one ng G of the Immigration and 138 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: Nationality Act is a temporary visa refusal pending further documents 139 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: or information provided by the applicant. For an athlete visa, 140 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: the bar is very high and the burden is on 141 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 2: the applicant to prove they have the special un rare 142 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 2: qualities required to be eligible for a visa. But the 143 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: substat article doesn't just claim that being trans could disqualify 144 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 2: you from receiving a visa. The article escalates its claims, 145 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 2: stating that trans people who already have a valid visa 146 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 2: could have it revoked and be deported for misrepresenting their 147 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: sex in the past, citing US law that if an 148 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 2: alien is found to have obtained a visa quote by 149 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 2: fraud or wilfarely misrepresenting a material fact, they are ineligible 150 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 2: to be in the United States. The article also refers 151 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: to a section of the Foreig Affairs Manual which includes 152 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: providing quote a fake birth certificate in support of an 153 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 2: immigrant visa application as misrepresenting a material fact unquote. The 154 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 2: article goes on to assert that the Trump administration could 155 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 2: refuse to recognize trans people's amended birth certificates from foreign 156 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 2: countries and essentially consider them quote unquote fake, thus making 157 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 2: their visa eligible to be revoked by quote unquote misrepresenting 158 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 2: a material fact. The author of the substack links to 159 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 2: another one of her own articles on a new policy 160 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 2: regarding the issuing of US passports with sex markers reflecting 161 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 2: biological sex at birth. The passport policy instructs the state 162 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 2: department employees to check birth certificates for signs of being amended, 163 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 2: and if they are amended, request more documents that list 164 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: sex at the time of birth, such as medical records, 165 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 2: hospital records, or early school records. ACLU staff attorney Picasso 166 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 2: says that this does not mean entire amended birth certificates 167 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 2: or quote unquote fake for the purposes of establishing fraud 168 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 2: or willful misrepresentation, which is again a high and that 169 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 2: Trump administration has never argued this as such. 170 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: Quote. 171 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: I think it's dangerous to even suggest that a legally 172 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 2: obtained and valid birth certificate could be viewed as quote 173 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 2: unquote fake without a much clearer statement from the federal 174 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 2: government to that effect. 175 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: Picsto advised in. 176 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 2: Trump's recent travel bands, they have specifically mentioned the availability 177 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: of fabricated birth certificates in certain countries, and this whole 178 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 2: claim about trans people's visas being revoked because of applications 179 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 2: of misrepresentation is contradicted by the State Department, which said 180 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: last year quote. Currently, valid US visas issued prior to 181 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: the effective date of this guidance bearing a sex that 182 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 2: differs from the visa holder's sex as defined in executive 183 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 2: order will remain valid through its expiration date. The visa 184 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: holder does not need to apply for a new visa 185 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: with an amended sex marker until the current visa expires unquote. 186 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 2: So the first half of this article covers what I 187 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 2: argue are gross misrepresentations of State Department visa policy. The 188 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,599 Speaker 2: second half of the article speculates on how this misrepresentation 189 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 2: could be enforced by ICE. In it Supreme Court ruling 190 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 2: last year, just as Kavanaugh wrote that ICE could detain 191 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 2: people based on a combination of factors such as working 192 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 2: a certain kind of job, ethnicity, and speaking Spanish or 193 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 2: talking with an accent, Kavanaugh said that ICE can detain 194 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 2: someone for questioning quote if they have a reasonable suspicion 195 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 2: based on specific articulable facts, that the person being questioned 196 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 2: is an alien illegally in the United States. The author 197 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 2: of the substat article argued that Kavanaugh's concurrence quote unquote, 198 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 2: effectively permitted ICE to use the fact that someone looks 199 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 2: trans as the quote specific articulable fact, allowing its officers 200 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 2: to question, harassed, detain, and even deport both citizens and 201 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 2: non citizens as long as it has a reason to 202 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 2: claim that being trans makes a person more likely to 203 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: be in the US illegally unquote, with this substacker adding 204 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 2: that because of State Department policy requiring applicants to list 205 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 2: biological sex at birth on forms, quote, ICE now have 206 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 2: the enforcement rationale to assert that trans people are more 207 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 2: likely than says people to have misrepresented themselves during the 208 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 2: visa process and therefore are more likely to have entered 209 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: the country unlawfully unquote. This assertion from this substacker rests 210 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 2: on the idea that looking trans makes someone more likely 211 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 2: to be in the US illegally. This idea is not 212 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 2: supported by any immigration policy memo or guideline that also 213 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 2: assumes that the justification for a Kavanaugh stop is the 214 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 2: same as the legal process of removal, which it is not. 215 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 2: This idea was invented by the author of this article. 216 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,079 Speaker 2: It's not based on any enforcement directive from ICE, and 217 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 2: misrepresents what the State Department means by intentionally misrepresenting biological 218 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 2: sex in the visa application process. Discrepancies in gender markers 219 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: across government documents is not its self grounds for detention 220 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 2: or deportation. In fact, it's federal policy to create such discrepancies. Furthermore, 221 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 2: dealing with potential discrepancies between gender markers on foreign documents 222 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 2: and the Trump Admin's insistence on only using biological sex 223 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: at birth on federal documents is handled by State Department 224 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: consular officers and USCIS employees, not ICE Enforcement and Removal 225 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: operations officers who work under an entirely different agency. But 226 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 2: the main thing that makes me believe that ICE will 227 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 2: not suddenly start targeting people for being trans is that 228 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: this state department policy requiring sex at birth on visa 229 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 2: applications isn't actually new. It's existed in some form since 230 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 2: February twenty twenty five for both immigrant and non immigrant visas. 231 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 2: The only recent change is that the Green card lottery 232 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 2: rules have been updated to use this same language. 233 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: Quote. 234 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 2: Nothing about this new rule makes it more or less 235 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 2: likely that ICE will be free to scrutinize trans people's 236 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 2: documents and detain those whose documents show any inconsistencies unquote, 237 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 2: affirmed a CLU staff attorney Melita Picasso put plainly state 238 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 2: department restrictions on stating assigned sex at birth on Green 239 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 2: card or visa applications does not give ICE any new 240 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: justification to roam around disappearing random people who quote unquote 241 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 2: look trans. But it could make border crossings more risky 242 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 2: for non citizens and visa applications harder to navigate and 243 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: subject to delays. This policy from the State Department is bad, 244 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: but turning that into saying that ICE is now going 245 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 2: to round up trans people and vcode them doesn't understand 246 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 2: how this will actually affect immigrant trans people or trans 247 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 2: people currently in federal custody. Side note vcoding refers to 248 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: this systematic enabling of sexual abuse towards incarcerated transwomen to 249 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 2: please male prisoners. Near the end of the substackic article, 250 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: the author suggests that transpeople in Kansas could be at 251 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: extra risk of getting detained by ICE because of a 252 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: new law invalidating driver's license and birth certificates with amended 253 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 2: gender markers, possibly leaving some US citizens temporarily unable to 254 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 2: prove citizenship with a valid birth certificate. This new law 255 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 2: is certainly dangerous, and any attempt to strip away people's 256 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 2: legal id is very worrying and carries potential for abuse. 257 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 2: In the case of Kansas, already, having a passport would 258 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 2: be really ideal. Otherwise, a hospital birth certificate or early 259 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 2: school records can theoretically be used to help prove citizenship, 260 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: and it is worth saying that a citizen temporarily losing 261 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 2: documentation does not put them at the same level of 262 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 2: marginalized risk as an undocumented immigrant. The new Kansas law 263 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 2: does direct the Office of Vital Statistics to quote reissue 264 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 2: birth certificates when necessary to correct this sex identification unquote. Similarly, 265 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 2: DMVs were instructed to reissue a quote unquote corrected license 266 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 2: once the invalidated one was turned in. We'll be right 267 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 2: back after these messages welcome back to it could happen here. 268 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 2: The unsubstantiated claims made in that substack article went viral 269 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: across multiple social media platforms like TikTok, blue Sky, and Twitter, 270 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: bolstering further speculation. Social media posts further extrapolated the potential 271 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 2: harm facing trans people by ICE agents beyond the claims 272 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 2: made in the article by saying that ICE will now 273 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 2: deport or disappear trans citizens anyone who tried to push 274 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 2: back on the legitimacy of those claims, were labeled dangerous 275 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 2: or fence for trying to quote unquote downplay the threat 276 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 2: posed by ICE assertions of new pressing danger In this 277 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 2: back and forth, discourse largely took three forms. One saying 278 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 2: that because ICE is already doing ex bad thing, that 279 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 2: means they could also start doing this new bad thing. 280 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 2: Two people asserting that ICE is in fact actually already 281 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 2: doing this, and three arguments based on distrust of the 282 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 2: government and ICE's general lack of legality. Much of the 283 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 2: discussion emerged from the genuine belief that ICE has been 284 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 2: granted new power or has been quote unquote authorized to 285 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 2: detain someone for looking trans, that Trump has quote unquote 286 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 2: opened the door for ICE to start profiling trans people, 287 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 2: that like the stream Course ruling last year, profiling has 288 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 2: been essentially greenlit for trans people, or that checking the 289 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: consistency of gender markers has been added to ICE's quote 290 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 2: unquote jurisdiction. And to be one hundred percent clear, there's 291 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: not been any new ICE memo or policy related to transpeople, 292 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 2: gender markers or documentation being in their jurisdiction. State Department 293 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 2: policy on requiring biological sex on applications has existed for 294 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 2: over a year. The real danger posed by this policy 295 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 2: is that more trans immigrants could have their visas delayed or, 296 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 2: in extreme cases, denied, and people may need help navigating 297 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 2: this increasingly confusing application process. Still, people have tried to 298 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 2: assert that ICE's intentional targeting and profiling of people for 299 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 2: being trans was quote unquote already happening. In the past year, 300 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 2: ICE has detained transpeople. It's hard to to get exact 301 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 2: numbers on this because I stopped collecting detention data for 302 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 2: trans people last year to comply with Trump's anti trans 303 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 2: executive orders. Though we do know of attempts to deport 304 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 2: trans people from news reporting. Last August, ICE detained a 305 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 2: transwoman who over stated a visa by six years, and 306 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 2: in November, a transwoman who lost her lawful permanent residence 307 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 2: status in twenty twenty three after pleading guilty to a 308 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 2: felony was quote unquote inadvertently deported to Mexico despite a 309 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 2: court order specifically barring her from being sent to Mexico. 310 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 2: We have no evidence that these women were targeted for 311 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 2: removal on the basis of being trans. 312 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: But what happened to them is still horrific. 313 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: As of now, there has been no reporting on people 314 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 2: being targeted for detention based on looking trans, because the 315 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 2: government has not actually argued that being transit self qualifies 316 00:20:54,760 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 2: as reasonable suspicion of illegal presence. When I voiced skepticism 317 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 2: about the claims sourced from this substack article, people responded 318 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 2: to me saying that even if this has yet to happen, 319 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 2: one could argue that ICE still could expand their operations 320 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 2: to include profiling and targeting trans people for detention, since 321 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 2: they're already profiling and rounding up quote unquote random brown people. 322 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 2: After all, this podcast is called it Could Happen Here, 323 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 2: and ICE has detained both citizens and legal immigrants and 324 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 2: sent them to quote unquote camps. Though this show is 325 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 2: called it Could Happen Here, that doesn't mean we should 326 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 2: spread unsubstantiated doom spiraling, disconnected from the material reality of 327 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 2: real policies advancing a fascist project. The Trump administration has 328 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 2: been very clear and open about targeting groups of people 329 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 2: flooding through our southern border, that is who ICE is 330 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 2: designed to target, and they have policy directing them to 331 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 2: do so, and new permission from the Supreme Court. It 332 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 2: is true that ICE has temporarily detained US citizens when 333 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 2: looking for people they suspect our undocumented immigrants. This has 334 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 2: been for two reasons, US citizens accused of interfering with 335 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 2: ICE activity while protesting, or because ICE suspects US citizens 336 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 2: may be undocumented based on factors like skin tone, occupation, 337 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 2: or speaking a foreign language, usually Spanish. This second group 338 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 2: of people then must demonstrate proof of citizenship or, if 339 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 2: they are immigrants, their legal status. The period they're detained 340 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 2: is supposed to be relatively short, usually a few hours, 341 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 2: though in extreme cases that's stretched into multiple days. When 342 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 2: I posted about this online, someone sent me a Wikipedia 343 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 2: article claiming it proved that ICE has deported one hundred 344 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:50,479 Speaker 2: and seventy US citizens during Trump's second term. The article 345 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 2: actually said one hundred and seventy citizens have been detained 346 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 2: since Trump took office. Again, there have been a few 347 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 2: reported instances of US born citizens being deported. These are 348 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 2: citizen children who are deported with immigrant parents to avoid 349 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 2: child separation, though many many children do end up being 350 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 2: separated from their parents when their parents are deported. The 351 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 2: last argument that people fall back on is simply that 352 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 2: ICE is a completely lawless agency, and they can do 353 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 2: whatever it wants, including going after trans people. After all, 354 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 2: ICE has murdered US citizens on camera in broad daylight, 355 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 2: but it's important to remember that happened for a reason. 356 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 2: Those weren't random acts. ICE and CBP murdered people protesting 357 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 2: ICE rates targeting their immigrant neighbors. Federal agents killed people 358 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 2: because the protesting was an inconvenience, and there was use 359 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 2: of force policy and training directing them to do so. 360 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 2: For decades, CBP agents have killed people at the border 361 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 2: and gotten away with it. The Trump administration may not 362 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 2: carible the law, but this analysis is not based on 363 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 2: any assumptions about legality. It's based on the administration's own 364 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 2: stated goals, which they've been very open about, and the 365 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 2: policies and practices currently in effect, none of which relate 366 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 2: to ICE targeting. 367 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: People for quote unquote looking trans. 368 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 2: From what we know, the Kavanash stops framework have never 369 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 2: been used to target transpeople for being trans as the 370 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 2: reasonable suspicion of being illegally in the country, and there's 371 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 2: been no changing guidelines saying that being trans can be 372 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 2: the basis for certain stops. 373 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: Asserting otherwise is simply false. 374 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 2: Insisting that because of State Department application policy, ICE will 375 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 2: now randomly arrest transpeople is conflating two very different things. 376 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 2: It isn't about the potential legality of ICE targeting trans people. 377 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 2: I'm simply saying there is no such directive instructing ICE 378 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 2: to do that. Asserting that the Trump administration is completely 379 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 2: one hundred percent unbounded by law also ignores the fact 380 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 2: that federal and immigration courts are still an active terrain 381 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 2: of battle. While the administration has repeatedly ignored courts and judges' orders, 382 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: people have also been successfully released from ICE custody by 383 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 2: filing habeas corpus petitions. It's not that I believe in 384 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 2: the personal integrity of ICE agents, far from it. But 385 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 2: this concept of ICE as this vague fascist desk squad 386 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 2: that will go after any group the Trump administration hates 387 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 2: turns ICE into this abstract idea rather than a single 388 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 2: material agency with concrete motivations and limits that leaves a 389 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 2: wake of destruction in the course of achieving their purpose. 390 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 2: ICE does raids where there's high concentrations of immigrant workers. 391 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 2: The targeting isn't actually random. ICE is going after undocumented 392 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 2: immigrant workers, sometimes using skin and language as a rough 393 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:08,479 Speaker 2: proxy to do document checks to assert the inevitability of 394 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 2: ICE going after trans people, People invoke comparisons to the Nazis, 395 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 2: and as rhetorically useful as it is to equate ICE 396 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,719 Speaker 2: to a modern version of the Gestapo. This is not 397 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 2: Germany in the nineteen thirties. Ice is a contemporary version, 398 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 2: but the current world is different. The chronically online doomer 399 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: may retort, but once ICE is done with immigrants, then 400 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 2: they will go after transpeople. After all, what's the purpose 401 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 2: of increasing ICE's staffing and funding, or building a network 402 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 2: of detention camps across the country if not to use 403 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 2: them against the undesirables. There's about fifteen million undocumented immigrants 404 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 2: in the United States and about three million trans people. 405 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: That's five times as many undocumented immigrants than trans people. 406 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 2: Last year, ICE reached a record high number of deportation, 407 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 2: over six hundred thousand. This number still leaves millions and 408 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 2: millions of undocumented immigrants. ICE will never be quote unquote 409 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 2: done with immigrants. This logic again reduces ICE to this vague, 410 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 2: abstract evil and fails to consider the purpose of ICE 411 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 2: and why it currently operates as it does. So what 412 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 2: motivates ICE. Do individual ICE agents share the same motivations 413 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 2: as the agency itself or the people directing it. Individual 414 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 2: agents certainly could be motivated by racism, political ideology, a paycheck, 415 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 2: or a combination thereof, but the motivating factors across the 416 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 2: entire agency cannot solely be based on ethnicity itself, else 417 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 2: you wouldn't see as many Hispanic ICE and CBP agents. 418 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 2: People tend to think of hate as a vague causal 419 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 2: force itself, rather than it being the result of complex 420 00:27:55,040 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 2: societal factors shaped by material forces like the economy, in security, 421 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 2: and housing shortages. These material forces are often expressed as 422 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 2: racial or ethnic prejudice, but the underlying motivation of ICE 423 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 2: as an agency and by extension, DHS still rests on 424 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 2: material forces, not racial hatred as an abstract ideal. Rank 425 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 2: and file employees could have entirely different motivations compared to 426 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 2: some of those at the top of the agency or 427 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 2: the agency as a whole, and people in charge of 428 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 2: the agency may themselves even be confused as to the 429 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 2: material motivations that underline the existence of immigration enforcement agencies. 430 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 2: But this lack of alignment is a weakness in the 431 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 2: agency and DHS more broadly, as demonstrated by the fallout 432 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 2: of Operation Metro Surge in Minneapolis, which left ICE and 433 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 2: DHS in a compromised state. So why does ICE exist? 434 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 2: What material role does it fulfill? It seeks to stabilize 435 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 2: the social order by target surplus populations, and what's the 436 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 2: most efficient way to do that By going after the 437 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 2: most marginalized populations with the least amount of legal and 438 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 2: economic protections, which are undocumented immigrants. This operation may be 439 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: sold to the public, and indeed it's enforcers by marketing 440 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 2: it in the language of race and crime categories, which 441 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: are often equated, but underneath that, it's still an attempt 442 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 2: to solve problems caused by material economic forces. In reality, 443 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 2: this material motivation establishes a certain direction of impact, as 444 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 2: well as material limits like budget, personnel, and balancing between 445 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 2: public approval and public opposition. So with that in mind, 446 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 2: does it make sense to claim that Immigration and Customs 447 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 2: enforcement is going to conduct the targeted massed attention of 448 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 2: trans people as a class signs points to know. It's 449 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 2: not that I disagree with the ide that trans people 450 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 2: are under threat from the government, but they're under a 451 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 2: different threat than that of undocumented immigrants or people detained 452 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 2: by ICE based on profiling. Obviously, trans immigrants have an 453 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 2: overlapping threat vector. As such, migrant support should remain focused 454 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 2: on things like ICE watch, rapid response networks, and providing 455 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 2: immigrants legal resources, including to trans immigrants who made an 456 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 2: assistance navigating the visa process, and working to get people 457 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 2: out of ICE detention. The latter is especially important considering 458 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 2: Trump's executive order forcing transwomen in federal custody to be 459 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 2: detained with men, and the Trump Administration's plan to end 460 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 2: of federal prison rape protections for trans people. But most 461 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 2: people engaged in this discourse genuinely don't understand how state 462 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 2: department policy on visa applications will actually affect transimmigrants and 463 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: what we can then do to support trans immigrants. But 464 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 2: this whole discourse takes the phone away from the people 465 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 2: most at risk of ICE, which are still undocumented immigrant workers. 466 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 2: Lilith in Seattle with a one hundred and fifty thousand 467 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 2: dollars a year tech job is not at high risk 468 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: of being detained by ICE. Believing otherwise prohibits people who 469 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 2: are actually safe and secure from using their wealth and 470 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 2: status to support others who do not have the same 471 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 2: safety provided by wealth or status, whether they're transgender and immigrant, 472 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 2: or both. Misleading articles in the larger panic driven information 473 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 2: economy encourages people with financial or legal security to be 474 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 2: scared into paralysis because they believe that any amount of 475 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 2: opposition to the government will result in being disappeared to 476 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 2: a concentration camp. This justifies a retreat from the world 477 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 2: by framing it as safety, allowing one to focus on 478 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 2: maximizing their own power and wealth to achieve security, retreating 479 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 2: solely into the rule of the victim achieved. It's a 480 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 2: sort of emotional catharsis, But this also alienates you from 481 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 2: the world and ends up doing propaganda for the enemy. 482 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 2: In this discourse, there's a tendency to make the enemy 483 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 2: out to be an unstoppable monster, which further justifies in 484 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 2: action because it doesn't allow you to understand the limits 485 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 2: of the enemy, whether logistical or ideological, and resigns us 486 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 2: to cower before an omnipotent all powerful evil. Ice operations 487 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 2: are an expensive, unpopular, destabilizing thing. We must keep an 488 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: eye on the fragility of power, as that informs us 489 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 2: on how to fight it. When removed from action in 490 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,719 Speaker 2: the real world, people have no way to confront truth. 491 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 2: It is a frightening time to be transgender. On top 492 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 2: of what feels like never ending attacks on healthcare and 493 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 2: our ability to exist in public life. You now see 494 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 2: news stories about a US state invalidating people's IDs at 495 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 2: the same time as viral social media posts to claim 496 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 2: ICE has been given new authority to detain transpeople and 497 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 2: deport immigrants for having the wrong gender marker. Various attacks 498 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 2: on trans rights separated through time could be viewed as 499 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 2: a coherent, centralized strategy towards a singular, horrific end, but 500 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 2: they also may be in fact disparate, often petty attempts 501 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 2: at cruelty, intending to demoralize transpeople and make translife prohibitively difficult. 502 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 2: The way Red States and the Trump admin Are trying 503 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 2: to eliminate transgenderism, as Michael Knowles would say, is to 504 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 2: simply make it incredibly difficult to socially and medically transition, 505 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 2: like by not recognizing gender on government documents, be excluded 506 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 2: from public bathrooms, and continuing efforts to restrict healthcare. We'll 507 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 2: do one more break and return for a final segment. 508 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,879 Speaker 2: The state of catastrophic fear I've been talking about is 509 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 2: maintained by a near constant wave of articles with panic 510 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:19,760 Speaker 2: inducing headlines, which fuel social media posts that further escalate 511 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 2: an abstract claims maiden headlines to a Nazi Germany esque 512 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 2: level of potential danger facing trans people. One such impending 513 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 2: danger circulating online this month is the claim that the 514 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 2: FDA is making a registry of trans women and moving 515 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 2: to criminalize DIY estrogen. This claim originated from an article 516 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 2: in a trans news outlet published March twelfth, reporting that 517 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 2: anti trans lobbyan groups sent a petition to the FDA 518 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 2: to create a registry of trans women who take estrogen 519 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 2: and restrict the use of feminizing HRT, which, if implemented, 520 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 2: could quote fast track pathway to criminalizing estrogen use. Importantly, 521 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 2: this citizens petition is not US law or proposed government legislation, 522 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 2: nor is it FDA policy or regulation. It was written 523 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 2: by an anti transactivist coalition and sent to the FDA 524 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 2: over three months ago in December of twenty twenty five. 525 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 2: The petition requests quote unquote immediate action by establishing a 526 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 2: new docket for the public to officially comment on the 527 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 2: safety and effectiveness of estrogen in gender transitions, and to 528 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,280 Speaker 2: schedule a public hearing on the subject. That is mainly 529 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 2: what the petition is for, though it does make further 530 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 2: recommendations following the conclusion of a public hearing. These recommendations 531 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 2: include adding a warning label to estrogen, conducting a safety review, 532 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,240 Speaker 2: having clinicians report adverse effects to the FDA, and requiring 533 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 2: the drug manufacturers quote establish a patient registry as a 534 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 2: part of a risk evaluation and mitigation study to capture 535 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 2: real lials world safety data unquote, and that is the 536 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 2: registry mentioned in this panic headline. This article, or more 537 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 2: accurately distorted versions of its claims, went viral across trans Twitter, 538 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 2: with tens of thousands of likes and hundreds of thousands 539 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 2: of quote unquote views, but the article received strong pushback 540 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 2: on Blue Sky for being quote unquote sensationalist and inflammatory. 541 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 2: The outlet that originally published the story later updated the article, 542 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 2: clarifying that the FDA receives hundreds of petitions a year 543 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 2: and even if implemented, they can take years to. 544 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: Go into effect. 545 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 2: From twenty one, twenty thirteen, only six point six percent 546 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 2: of FDA citizen petitions were approved and resulted in new regulation. 547 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 2: A study from twenty sixteen found that, on average, quote, 548 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 2: these petitions require two point eight five years for a 549 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 2: final agency decision, and many decisions remained pending ten to 550 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 2: thirteen years after their initial submission. 551 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: UOTE. 552 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 2: This FDA petition story was not the only article this 553 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 2: month theorizing about a trans registry or adult HRT restrictions. 554 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 2: In mid March, multiple LGBTQ news outlets reported that Republican 555 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 2: lawmakers in Tennessee advanced a bill that would quote unquote 556 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 2: create a public list of trans residents in the state. 557 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 2: The bill in question mandates insurance companies also cover d transition, 558 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 2: and would require that care providers submit statistics on gender 559 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,280 Speaker 2: affirming care to the Tennessee Department of Health, which must 560 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 2: quote not contain individually identifiable information defined in HIPPA unquote. 561 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,720 Speaker 2: The Tennessee Department of Health would then use that information 562 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 2: to make a publicly available statistics report. But online accounts 563 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 2: are spreading this story as if Tennessee is making a 564 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 2: quote unquote sex offender style public registry with the names 565 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 2: and locations of all trans people in this state. A 566 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 2: bill like this could potentially be used for harm and 567 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 2: it may face court challenges for possibly violating parts of 568 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,240 Speaker 2: HIPPA by collecting data on county of residents and procedure dates. 569 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 2: But the reporting on the bill and the viral reaction 570 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 2: online make it out to be something completely different. There's 571 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 2: no reason to believe this bill would create a publicly 572 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 2: accessible registry or list identifying trans people by name in 573 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,280 Speaker 2: this state. The bill has not yet passed the state Senate, 574 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 2: and it may not in its current form. Right now, 575 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 2: it's unclear what exact form the collected data will take 576 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,399 Speaker 2: within a statistics report and what level of anonymizing data 577 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 2: aggregation will be employed. This is something to keep an 578 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,839 Speaker 2: eye on if the bill does pass and the state 579 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 2: Department of Health drafts guidelines for the mandatory statistics reporting, 580 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 2: but the way it's being reported is incredibly misleading. Interestingly, 581 00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 2: the source for this public list claim is the same 582 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 2: the sub stec outlet that created the false story about 583 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 2: ICE now being able to detain people for looking trans. 584 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 2: Also earlier this month, multiple LGBTQ news outlets reported that 585 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 2: the Fourth Circuit Court approved state bans on gender affirming 586 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 2: healthcare for adults. On March tenth, a Republican appointed three 587 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 2: judge panel of the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled 588 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 2: that states can prohibit gender affirming surgery from being covered 589 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 2: by Medicaid. The ruling affirmed ban on Medicaid coverage for 590 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 2: quote sex change surgeries in West Virginia, with the panel 591 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 2: arguing it doesn't discriminate against trans people because it applies 592 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:47,439 Speaker 2: to specific procedures, not specific individuals. This is certainly bad 593 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 2: news for trans people in West Virginia on Medicaid, but 594 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 2: reporting that this decision could soon result in trans people 595 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 2: losing healthcare in other states or nationally is misleading and 596 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 2: removes key context. This is not a total ban on 597 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 2: these procedures. It's a ban on state Medicaid coverage of 598 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 2: these surgical procedures. The ruling is not a ban on 599 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 2: other forms of gender affirming healthcare like HRT, nor does 600 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 2: it threaten the hospital's ability to receive Medicare and Medicaid 601 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 2: funds for providing gender affirming healthcare, like the Trump administration 602 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 2: has threatened so far unsuccessfully. Still people postulated on how 603 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 2: this ruling could be laying the legal groundwork to eliminate 604 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 2: adult transgender healthcare, but trans journalist to David Forbes noted 605 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,840 Speaker 2: that this ruling will likely be appealed to the wider 606 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,760 Speaker 2: Fourth Circuit, which has recently ruled in the opposite direction 607 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 2: of this three panel ruling. What panicked assertions of an 608 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 2: impending total ban on trans healthcare tends to overlook is 609 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 2: that going from a state ban on Medicaid coverage for 610 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 2: surgery straight to an all ages ban on gender affirming 611 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,600 Speaker 2: healthcare skips a lot of steps, and those steps are 612 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 2: crucially important. The panic, clickbait induced doomer mindset treats every 613 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 2: horrific potentiality as an inevitable eventuality. This underminds our ability 614 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,280 Speaker 2: to accurately assess risk and effectively dedicate resources to oppose 615 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,839 Speaker 2: what are pressing threats. So what purpose does this sort 616 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 2: of posting serve and why are people so primed to 617 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 2: believe it? These panic driven claims rest on the very 618 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 2: real fact that trans people are facing present danger. Oftentimes, 619 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 2: people boosting these panic stories are genuinely trying to help 620 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,879 Speaker 2: inform their own community of potential harm. In the case 621 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 2: of that Ice story, it was based on the assumption 622 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 2: that there was a legitimate recent rule change enabling ISO 623 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 2: target people under suspicion of being trans it makes sense 624 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,959 Speaker 2: that people would want to raise the alarm about ICE 625 00:41:55,040 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 2: gaining new powers, but acel U Staf Attorney Melita Picasso cautioned, quote, 626 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 2: we are supporting our community by trying to warn people, 627 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 2: but these warnings need to be clear and accurate, otherwise 628 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 2: we end up inadvertently contributing to the chaos and fear unquote. 629 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 2: Other times, these panic stories are spread with the hope 630 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 2: of scaring allies into caring about the ongoing attacks on 631 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 2: trans people. Perhaps this is successful in some cases, I 632 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 2: don't know, But as a side effect, this strategy deals 633 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:33,399 Speaker 2: significant damage to the people it's trying to protect. Forecasting 634 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,760 Speaker 2: doom twenty four to seven can drive people into hopeless 635 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,320 Speaker 2: despair and push them away from strategies to fight against 636 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 2: the current attacks on trans writes. Panic driven agit prop 637 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 2: could also contribute to a Girl Who Cried Wolf scenario 638 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 2: where allies start to discount concerns about certain attacks on 639 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 2: transwrites due to previous, unsubstantiated viral claims. Though many people 640 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 2: spreading these claims may have genuine good intentions, the people 641 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 2: creating these claims may develop certain material incentives. Traditional mainstream 642 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 2: journalism has failed to question the massive government overreach into 643 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 2: the lives of trans people, and in some cases helped 644 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 2: manufacture consent for the stripping away of trans rights. This 645 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 2: state of affairs has made transpeople lose faith into big outlets, 646 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 2: leading to small upstart outlets filling in the information gaps 647 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:29,080 Speaker 2: in trans news coverage, but without any institutional backing. Independent 648 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 2: news sites and sub stack style blogs have to build 649 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 2: an audience to generate traction and stay operating. It turns 650 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:40,840 Speaker 2: out thousands of people constantly freaking out creates high social 651 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,399 Speaker 2: media engagement. This creates a loop where trans panic fear 652 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:50,360 Speaker 2: mongering boosts social media engagement, which further encourages more irresponsible 653 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 2: clickbait framing. Those who are successful may slowly develop a 654 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 2: new class position, which then needs to be maintained. Financial 655 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 2: incentive may even pressure journalists who have done good work 656 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 2: in the past to fall back on panic driven engagement 657 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,760 Speaker 2: bait to attract new traffic. This isn't exclusive to trans 658 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 2: outlet's either. Following the assassination of Charlie kirk Ken, Klippenstein 659 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,640 Speaker 2: reported on his substack that the FBI was about to 660 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 2: quote designate transgender people as violent extremists. His report contained 661 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,840 Speaker 2: no new verifiable information. The core evidence was an unnamed 662 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,719 Speaker 2: quote unquote senior official who told the Clippenstein he quote 663 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:39,520 Speaker 2: unquote feels like trans people could be labeled nihilist violent extremists. 664 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,959 Speaker 2: Clippenstein has previously misunderstood the nihilist violent extremists and label. 665 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 2: The term actually predates the second Trump administration and refers 666 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,840 Speaker 2: to groups like seven sixty four Child's Extortion Rings and 667 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:57,319 Speaker 2: communities like the school Shooter fandom TCC. Hours before Clippenstein's 668 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,960 Speaker 2: report was published, the Heritage Foundation and the Oversight Project 669 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 2: publicly released a petition calling for a new classification of 670 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:11,720 Speaker 2: extremism called trans ideology inspired violent extremism to categorize attacks 671 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 2: they believed are motivated by transgender ideology. The petition memo 672 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 2: denied that all trans people and their allies would be 673 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 2: designated domestic terrorists. Under this label, only those who quote encourage, promote, condone, take, 674 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 2: or insight unlawful violent action or threats based on this 675 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 2: ideology unquote. The Heritage petition also runs contrary to Clippenstein's 676 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 2: report by advocating against the use of the nihilist violent 677 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:47,080 Speaker 2: extremism label to describe transgender motivated violence. A Heritage petition 678 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,680 Speaker 2: to establish a new category of extremism is different from 679 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 2: an unnamed official who feels like trans people as a 680 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:59,040 Speaker 2: whole could be labeled as nihilist violent extremists. And it's 681 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 2: important to un stand that distinction. That was last September. 682 00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 2: It's now half a year later, and neither of these 683 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 2: things has come to fruition. The closest we got was 684 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,680 Speaker 2: in late September, following Trump's Antifa terrorism executive Order with 685 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 2: the National Security Posdential Memorandum Number seven, which listed quote 686 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:25,279 Speaker 2: extremism on migration, race, and gender as common recurrent motivations 687 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:30,000 Speaker 2: and indica of violent and terroristic activities under the umbrella 688 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:35,320 Speaker 2: of self described anti fascism unquote, among many other threads 689 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:41,000 Speaker 2: animating violent conduct. Regardless of that, people online interpreted both 690 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,800 Speaker 2: Clippenstein's report and the Heritage petition as meaning the FBI 691 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 2: classified the entire class of trans people as domestic terrorists. 692 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:56,240 Speaker 2: Social media both amplifies and distorts already misleading claims, turning 693 00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,759 Speaker 2: news into a massive game of telephone and the siloing 694 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:04,640 Speaker 2: of certain users and platforms. Mix Countering this misinformation incredibly difficult. 695 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,960 Speaker 2: The social media economy carries certain incentives for the producers 696 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,800 Speaker 2: of panic bait that could be attention, status, and money, 697 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,320 Speaker 2: but the consumers of panic also stand to gain something 698 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:21,600 Speaker 2: catharsis justification for their actions or lack thereof, as well 699 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:26,919 Speaker 2: as attention from fellow consumers. These clickbait panic pieces explode 700 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 2: around trans Twitter, which is still quite active, consisting of 701 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:34,480 Speaker 2: sex workers, gamers, TTT style posters, and zoomers who think 702 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,760 Speaker 2: Blue Sky is crnch and liberal. Some of these panic stories, 703 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,760 Speaker 2: like the FDA Registry, don't do very well on Blue 704 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,319 Speaker 2: Sky because that's where a lot of trans journalists who 705 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:47,760 Speaker 2: do actual journalism are, but those journalists are not active 706 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,040 Speaker 2: on Twitter and TikTok, making it harder to counter our 707 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:56,200 Speaker 2: misinformation on those platforms. Countering trans panic clickbait also suffers 708 00:47:56,239 --> 00:48:00,440 Speaker 2: from algorithmic suppression because it doesn't get people as ryled up. 709 00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:01,319 Speaker 1: A wave of. 710 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 2: Emotionally charged doom posting is boosted much farther than a 711 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 2: calm and calculated rebuttal. The biggest TikTok about ICE detaining 712 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,200 Speaker 2: people under suspicion of being trans has one point two 713 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 2: million views. The biggest TikTok fact checking this claim has 714 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,840 Speaker 2: two hundred and ninety thousand views. So much of social 715 00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:26,919 Speaker 2: media politics is emotional manipulation based on anger, fear, or catharsis. 716 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:31,000 Speaker 2: Posting about perceived danger is essentially viewed as a form 717 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,000 Speaker 2: of activism, and if someone casts a doubt on what's 718 00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:38,239 Speaker 2: seen as an existential threat, that person becomes emotionally equated 719 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:44,200 Speaker 2: with the enemy. Panic produces helplessness, but helplessness can actually 720 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,120 Speaker 2: be cathartic for the individual. It's not helpful for people 721 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:52,160 Speaker 2: currently in the most danger. So then what is there 722 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,320 Speaker 2: to do in terms of the trans panic information economy? 723 00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,960 Speaker 2: Don't be afraid to openly question the legitimacy of certain 724 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:03,319 Speaker 2: reporting due to fear of backlash from the community. If 725 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,480 Speaker 2: it's good reporting, it should be able to stand up 726 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,560 Speaker 2: to scrutiny. So when you see a new story that 727 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,319 Speaker 2: triggers an emotional response, stop a moment before clicking share 728 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,759 Speaker 2: and find out where this claim is coming from. A 729 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,960 Speaker 2: reliable journalistic outlet, an independent publication. What other reporting has 730 00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,600 Speaker 2: this publication done? Has it been accurate? Who is the reporter? 731 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,200 Speaker 2: Are you familiar with their reporting? What else have they 732 00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,439 Speaker 2: reported on? Is it speculative? Are there logical jumps without 733 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,200 Speaker 2: supporting evidence? Again, I'm not trying to minimize the danger 734 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,880 Speaker 2: coming from attack on trans people. Quite the contrary. The 735 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,000 Speaker 2: right is continuing to take away trans rights, and these 736 00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,720 Speaker 2: threats should be treated seriously. But when trying to counter 737 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,520 Speaker 2: these real attacks, one must be cautious about looking so 738 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,080 Speaker 2: far ahead into this speculative future that it takes the 739 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,960 Speaker 2: focus away from the clear and present harms. This isn't 740 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,560 Speaker 2: about trusting the government, It's about understanding the world in 741 00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,720 Speaker 2: order to change it. See you on the the other side. 742 00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,799 Speaker 2: You can find a text version of this episode on 743 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:10,080 Speaker 2: the Shatterzone substack, with hyperlinks available for many of the 744 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,040 Speaker 2: terms or reporting referenced. 745 00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,760 Speaker 1: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 746 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,000 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 747 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,640 Speaker 2: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 748 00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,279 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 749 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,640 Speaker 2: now find sources for it could Happen here listed directly 750 00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:31,799 Speaker 2: in episode descriptions. 751 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:32,960 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.