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Speaker 1: Pushkin. When Malcolm Gladwell and Rick Rubin first talked about

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Speaker 1: making Broken Record, one of the artists they really wanted

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Speaker 1: to speak with was Tom Petty. But then right as

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Speaker 1: we started production on the show, Tom Petty sadly passed away.

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Speaker 1: Everyone was processing what happened, including Malcolm and Rick. So

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Speaker 1: one afternoon they got together at Shango Law, turned the

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Speaker 1: mics on and talked about Petty and his music, about

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Speaker 1: how Rick first fell in love with the band, driving

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Speaker 1: around La listening to Running Down a Dream, and the

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Speaker 1: plans Petty had to put out a trove of unreleased

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Speaker 1: material from Wildflowers, an album Rick produced. That album was

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Speaker 1: one of many high water marks of Petty's career. Ricks

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Speaker 1: long thought, and he told Malcolm that day he believes

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Speaker 1: albums so good because Petty was trying to impress him.

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Speaker 1: Petty's lead guitarist and occasional co writer, Mike Campbell talked

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Speaker 1: to Rick last spring, confirming Rick's notion. They talk in

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Speaker 1: depth about the making of Wildflowers and about Mike's new

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Speaker 1: album with a band called the Dirty Knobs. It's the

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Speaker 1: first band Mike's ever been a part of without Petty.

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Speaker 1: We started playing with in the early seventies, and it's

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Speaker 1: the first time Rick's been able to catch up with

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Speaker 1: Mike since Tom's death. They talk about their work together

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Speaker 1: over the years and how the Heartbreakers always managed to

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Speaker 1: find new life. Plus, Mike tells a great story about

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Speaker 1: how he wrote the riff for Running Down a Dream.

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Speaker 1: This is broken record liner notes for the digital age.

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Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmonds. Just a quick note here. You can

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Speaker 1: listen to all of the music mentioned in this episode

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Speaker 1: on our playlist, which you can find a link to

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Speaker 1: in the show notes. For licensing reasons, each time a

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Speaker 1: song is referenced in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect.

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Speaker 1: All right, enjoy the episode. Here's Mike Campbell in conversation

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Speaker 1: with Rick Rubin. Let's let's start talking about Gainesville. If

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Speaker 1: that's cool can Gainesville was some of the happiest times

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Speaker 1: of my life. That's where I I got out of

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Speaker 1: high school in Jacksonville. I went to college in Gainesville,

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Speaker 1: University of Florida on an Air Force loan society. My

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Speaker 1: dad was in the Air Force. Because we didn't have

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Speaker 1: much money. But anyway, I went to college there and

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Speaker 1: there was a real healthy music scene going on. Must

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Speaker 1: bands and a couple of parks on the university where

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Speaker 1: you could play for free. And I started making friends

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Speaker 1: with different musicians about what year about what year was

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Speaker 1: this seventy two? Well, like I got of high school,

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Speaker 1: there was seventy Who how did Mudcrutch become a band?

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Speaker 1: Mudcrutch was a band with Tom Petty, Tom Laden and

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Speaker 1: some other guys. And they were one of the bands

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Speaker 1: that was they would do country rock, but they would

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Speaker 1: throw in some original songs now and then. And I

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Speaker 1: would see them at the park and p the free

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Speaker 1: gigs out in the lawn, and I thought, well, these

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Speaker 1: guys are you know they there's something going on here,

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Speaker 1: you know. And then I had a band with Randall

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Speaker 1: Marsh was a trio like a blues jam acid trio.

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Speaker 1: And and turns out Random and I were sharing I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get too long with it, were sharing

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Speaker 1: a farm at the edge of town. And I saw

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Speaker 1: a thing on the university student union, Mudcrutch looking for

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Speaker 1: a new drummer, so oh, and Randall and I were

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Speaker 1: kind of fed up with what we were doing, so

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Speaker 1: I should give this to Randall. He might, you know,

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Speaker 1: get a gig here. And I thought, these are guys

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Speaker 1: were pretty good. They had harmonies, and you know, they

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Speaker 1: weren't a jam band like we were. They actually had songs.

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Speaker 1: And so I told them about it, and they came

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Speaker 1: out to our farm to audition Randall and I was

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Speaker 1: in the back room, and it turns out they just

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Speaker 1: lost their guitar player too that day, and so they're going, Randall,

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Speaker 1: do you know anybody brother's this guy in the back?

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Speaker 1: You know? And I was a geek. I had came

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Speaker 1: in and cut off some short hair I did. I

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Speaker 1: was not a hippie yet, you know, I was not hip.

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Speaker 1: I will do it this time nineteen twenty two, twenty

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Speaker 1: one something like that. And uh, I came walking in

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Speaker 1: with my little Japanese guitar and they just went, oh god, no.

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Speaker 1: And then I said, look it was Tom two. Tom's

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Speaker 1: Tom Leading, Tom Petty and Jim Lanahan who became our

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Speaker 1: lighting director. He was the lead singer. That's another story,

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Speaker 1: and Randall and so they said, well, they were looking

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Speaker 1: at me like, oh, how did we get out of this?

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Speaker 1: So what songs do you know? How about Johnny be Good?

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Speaker 1: Everybody knows that, right, And they all like looked at

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Speaker 1: me and Tom tell us a story on the tour,

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Speaker 1: he says, at the end of the song, he said like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know who you are, but you're in my

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Speaker 1: band forever. It's a true story. And you know, he

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Speaker 1: was telling them on the last tour I s was

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Speaker 1: a little bit, so they forgot how I looked. I

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Speaker 1: fixed that in time, but I got a better guitar.

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Speaker 1: But we just hit it off right away, and I

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Speaker 1: realized Tom was writing songs and I was starting to

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Speaker 1: write a little bit too, not as good as him,

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Speaker 1: but I had the inkling to write, and so we

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Speaker 1: hit it off, and he showed me some songs I

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Speaker 1: should have said. He goes, oh, that sounds kind of

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Speaker 1: like Roger mcgwinn, that you should keep working on that.

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Speaker 1: And so we just became fast friends from then on,

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Speaker 1: and we just connected. And it's like it seemed like

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Speaker 1: anytime he would have an idea, I knew what to

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Speaker 1: put with it, or if I had an idea, he

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Speaker 1: knew what to put with it instinctively. It was just

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Speaker 1: one of the magical things we cross passed. Beautiful. I

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Speaker 1: do miss him. Let's go back. Let's go back, miss

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Speaker 1: him too, Let's go back even further. First memories of music.

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Speaker 1: It was the first thing that got you excited about music. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's easy. It was my dad. My dad was in

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Speaker 1: the Air Force and he would come home, put on

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Speaker 1: a record and lay on the couch and just zone

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Speaker 1: out for an hour. And it was either Elvis or

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Speaker 1: Johnny Cash, and I would look at him going like,

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Speaker 1: whatever he's hearing, it's got him completely hypnotized. He's really

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Speaker 1: deep into this, and so I would listen to it

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Speaker 1: and I immediately picked up on the guitars Scotty Moore

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Speaker 1: and Luther Perkins who played with Johnny, and I just

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Speaker 1: was enamored with the sound. And then I asked him

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Speaker 1: one day, Dad, why do you listen to Johnny Cash

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Speaker 1: so much? And he goes because he speaks the truth, okay,

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Speaker 1: words or wisdom, you know, And that was my first

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Speaker 1: And then of course the Beatles in that generation, they

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Speaker 1: came on TV and everything changed and I had to

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Speaker 1: have a guitar, which I couldn't afford. But that was

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Speaker 1: when I saw them, and they just blew my mind

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Speaker 1: because up until then you'd watched the Ed Sullivan Show,

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Speaker 1: which is the only place to see new music, and

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Speaker 1: be like some guy up there singing and a band

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Speaker 1: somewhere out You didn't even see them. It's just a singer.

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Speaker 1: And the Beatles came on. First of all, they were

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Speaker 1: almost my age, and there was no band behind the curtain.

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Speaker 1: The guys playing the bass and singing the drums are

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Speaker 1: right there. They're all the four little combo and they're

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Speaker 1: all doing it with no help from anybody, and they're

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Speaker 1: really fucking good. And the girls are going nuts. That's

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Speaker 1: what I want to do. So you got a guitar

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Speaker 1: after seeing the Beatles? Yeah, I got. I got a

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Speaker 1: paunch up guitar. My mom got me a fifteen dollar

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Speaker 1: guitar that I couldn't It was unplayable, but I didn't know.

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Speaker 1: I thought that, boy, these guys are good. This is

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Speaker 1: so hard. How do they do it? Because the strings

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Speaker 1: or high I would bleed, you know, I loved it

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Speaker 1: so much. I would just play until I bleeded. And

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Speaker 1: so I just got the bug. And it's like once

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Speaker 1: I found the guitar, nothing else mattered. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: play this guitar as much as I can. I gotta

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Speaker 1: go to school, but when I get back, I'm on

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Speaker 1: the guitar and I just loved it. I still do

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Speaker 1: so then you're in mud Crutch and what kind of

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Speaker 1: gigs did you do? What was it like being in

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Speaker 1: that band? Well, it was it was a lot of

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Speaker 1: fun and we barely made enough money to make a living,

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Speaker 1: which was really cool because I was living in this

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Speaker 1: my friend's garage for fifteen bucks a month. He let

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Speaker 1: me live there, and with Mudcrutch we would play women's

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Speaker 1: club dances. Sometimes the university would give us a couple

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Speaker 1: of hundred bucks to play fraternitys occasionally, not too much

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Speaker 1: because we didn't play covers. Our biggest gig where we

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Speaker 1: really got good was a dub steer room on the

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Speaker 1: edge of town, a topless bar. That was my first gig.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you're minding this is the best story of all.

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Speaker 1: And it was great because it was four sets a night,

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Speaker 1: all week long. Okay, so we had to throw in

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Speaker 1: a few covers because we only had, you know, so

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Speaker 1: many originals. But and we would say, oh, here's one

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Speaker 1: by Santana and then we'd do our own, you know,

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Speaker 1: and they were so drunk they didn't care. But the

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Speaker 1: funny thing is the topless bar and then like the

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Speaker 1: third song, they had two dance stands on either side

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Speaker 1: of the stage, and these two girls would jump up

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Speaker 1: and they'd have their you know, and almost half thirst

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Speaker 1: of the song, they pulled their tops off, and the

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Speaker 1: first time they did it, the band quick playing like

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Speaker 1: we've ever seen that before. Oh okay, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we learned real fast. But and then on Thursdays they'd

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Speaker 1: have wet T shirt contest and wet T shirt contests.

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Speaker 1: This is Gainesville, okay, it's a lot of deep redneck

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Speaker 1: culture and so Doves Steakhouse topless bar. You're going to

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Speaker 1: get some of the seedious residents are going to come

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Speaker 1: to that bar. And you know, they were great. They

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Speaker 1: were so drunk. They were great audiences usually, but on

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Speaker 1: wet T shirt contests night, they'd have the girls get

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Speaker 1: up and they'd drench them in they'd have the T

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Speaker 1: shirt son, they drench them in water so you could

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Speaker 1: see everything, and they'd get up and dance, and all

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Speaker 1: the guys would come down front, like all the drooling drunks.

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Speaker 1: But we got good because we played like two months

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Speaker 1: every night and I got like one hundred bucks a week, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, for playing you know, every many hours. But

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Speaker 1: that was a lot of money. And we had a

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Speaker 1: house just up the street that we shared and we

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Speaker 1: could pay our rent and buy some wine or you know, burghers,

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Speaker 1: and we could live, you know, as musicians. So the

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Speaker 1: first time I was a working musician and I really

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Speaker 1: liked it, you know, making my money with my instrument.

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Speaker 1: So you played a lot of hours every day in

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Speaker 1: front of people. Yeah, so we got tight. We learned

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Speaker 1: how to how to work the room. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like, we're not the Beatles, but I read about

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Speaker 1: the Beatles going to Hamburg and when you play four

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Speaker 1: hours every night after a month, get good one, two, three, four.

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Speaker 1: We got this, you know what I mean. It just

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Speaker 1: you get good confidence, yeah, and the communication between the

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Speaker 1: members and just muscle memory. Everything. You just get good

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Speaker 1: and where you work it. And so we got really good,

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Speaker 1: and then we started getting some better gigs at the

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Speaker 1: university here and there. But eventually you reached the point

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Speaker 1: where this is as far as we can go in

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Speaker 1: this town. You know, we're at the top of the

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Speaker 1: game here. But that's it. I'm gonna have to make

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Speaker 1: a record, I guess. You know, if you want to

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Speaker 1: move up, we get to move on up to a

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Speaker 1: bigger city, you know, and get more serious about it,

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Speaker 1: and that's what we did. So what was the next step, Well,

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Speaker 1: we pulled all our money. We made a demo at

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Speaker 1: ben Mont's house when his parents were home. Ben Mountain

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Speaker 1: was the rich kid he had his parents had a

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Speaker 1: nice house. So we pulled in a truck and recorded

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Speaker 1: a demo live to when did ben Mont get in?

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Speaker 1: Because we're still we're still in mud Crutch, mud crug right,

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Speaker 1: it was. Tom Ladden left the band after about three years.

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Speaker 1: We had a disagreement over at dubs. He told dubs

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Speaker 1: that we wanted more money, which we didn't, and he

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Speaker 1: fired us and so we fired him. We all made

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Speaker 1: up after that. But then we had seen ben Mont around.

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Speaker 1: He was just a great musician, and so let's get

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Speaker 1: a piano in the band. So he joined the band

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Speaker 1: about two years into it, and you were still called Mudcrutch. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we were still it was. The name stayed the same.

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Speaker 1: But we cut a live demo of three songs on

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Speaker 1: live onto tape, and we pulled all our money and

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Speaker 1: three of the guys went out to La to shop

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Speaker 1: the tape. We got a couple of feelers, one with

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Speaker 1: Shelter Records, who had a studio in Tulsa, and they said, well,

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Speaker 1: why don't you if you're coming out to La, which

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Speaker 1: we were planning just going to go out there and

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Speaker 1: take our chances, stopping Tulsa on the way out and

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Speaker 1: see if we can. We'll make a demo there, and

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Speaker 1: we did, and we liked Anny Cordell a lot. He's

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Speaker 1: kind of like you. He was just kind of like

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Speaker 1: he seemed to have an overview of you know, can

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Speaker 1: you guys do that? That's not so cool, but when

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Speaker 1: you keep doing that, that's that's the ship, you know,

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And I really love that guy.

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Speaker 1: And so he kind of got it, you know, and

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Speaker 1: he got town, he got the songwriting, and he got

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Speaker 1: the band, and he signed us. I remember him coming

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Speaker 1: to visit us when we were making Wildflowers. He came

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Speaker 1: to the mixed session. Yeah, and I remember Tom was

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Speaker 1: really excited that he was coming. He had a vibe.

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Speaker 1: He was very wise man, and I remember that. And

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Speaker 1: I remember we played him, we were playing him and

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Speaker 1: we got and he always liked me too. He always

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Speaker 1: thought that, you know, you know, you're really insecure, but

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Speaker 1: you're important to this. He always gave me confidence. And

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Speaker 1: we were listening to that those tracks and erect Me

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Speaker 1: came on. He looked at me and he goes, that's

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Speaker 1: the one I've been waiting for. God bless him. Amazing. Wow,

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Speaker 1: you're getting misty thinking about all these memories. Okay, it's good.

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Speaker 1: So you get signed to Shelter. Yeah, and then what happens.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's funny you had mentioned that, because I

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Speaker 1: just found a journal from those days that I was

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Speaker 1: keeping of our first days at Shelter Records, and I

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Speaker 1: would write, like, went in the studio today, cut this song,

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Speaker 1: whatever we take. It's the next single or the first thing.

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Speaker 1: Next page, it's not the first single. It's really not

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Speaker 1: that good. Next page. Went in the studio for four hours,

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Speaker 1: didn't get a track. We suck next day, drinking too much.

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Speaker 1: It was like Greenhorns trying to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: make a record. We didn't know anything about playing in

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Speaker 1: the studio, and we struggled a lot at the beginning,

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Speaker 1: but Cordell stuck with us because he liked the songs.

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Speaker 1: And then at one point in the journal it goes,

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Speaker 1: we went to the studio with the heart with the band,

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Speaker 1: you know, stand and Ron and Ben and Mike and Tom,

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Speaker 1: and then the next day or next week, Tom brought

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Speaker 1: in four songs American Girl Breakdown. It's like it's like

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Speaker 1: night and day. All of a sudden, it just happened.

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Speaker 1: The bloodgates opened. As soon as the songs came in.

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Speaker 1: We were there. Wow, you know, and on Tom of

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Speaker 1: a sudden it started to sound good, amazing, And that

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Speaker 1: kind of blew my mind when I read that, like

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Speaker 1: it was just a moment in time where that switch turned.

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Speaker 1: I guess he in his mind he thought this, I

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Speaker 1: gotta step up now, and like, you know, all the

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Speaker 1: songs good songs. Remember, there was anything else going on

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Speaker 1: in his life that would have sparked that. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think it was just a good question. Who knows. No,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing players that, anything, any life changing event at

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Speaker 1: that moment other than that the band that what became

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Speaker 1: the Heartbreakers was in one room and maybe that was

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Speaker 1: just that energy was enough to turn his switch on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is interesting how that happens, how you see. And

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't even remember that if I hadn't seen the journal.

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Speaker 1: But it was almost like night and day, struggling, struggling, struggling, boom,

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Speaker 1: here's the songs, here's the band ready to go. And

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Speaker 1: how how did it work out that you guys got

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Speaker 1: popular in the UK? First, well, we put the record

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Speaker 1: out and break Down an American Girl, got a little

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Speaker 1: bit of play in Boston and San Francisco, but it

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Speaker 1: was happening really And then we got offered a tour

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Speaker 1: opening for Nils Lofgren who had just had a hit

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Speaker 1: over there, and we went over to England, which was

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Speaker 1: so what a dream. We're going to England to play

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Speaker 1: we have a record out. You know, we didn't realize

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Speaker 1: that record is not really happening right now. We're got

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Speaker 1: we got gigs were happening, you know, in our little mind,

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Speaker 1: we were already there, you know, but we had no

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Speaker 1: idea what was about to happen. And we got over

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Speaker 1: there and we started touring around England with Nils and

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Speaker 1: we were really good live. And I remember the first

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Speaker 1: gig we played in England was in Wales and we

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Speaker 1: were opening for Nils and we had no respect for

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Speaker 1: the opening act, you know, like we're gonna we're taking

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Speaker 1: no prisoners, you know, we're gonna take this moment what

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Speaker 1: hell or high water? Kind of assholes about it, really,

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Speaker 1: but that's the way it was Tom and I went

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Speaker 1: out there and the first gig in England were like

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Speaker 1: and Tom's running around, I'm running around and we're doing

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Speaker 1: our thing and the crowd's going crazy and we got

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Speaker 1: wrapped up in our chords. It was a total spinal

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Speaker 1: tap because we lost and we're standing there like literally

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Speaker 1: wrapped tied tight. The roadies had to come out. But

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Speaker 1: it was great, you know, that's just how exciting it was.

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Speaker 1: And then from that we started getting good press. They

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Speaker 1: would come to see Nels laffer and go, oh fuck,

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Speaker 1: what was this ship that happened right before that? You know,

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Speaker 1: the kind of kicked his ass, got what We almost

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Speaker 1: felt bad for him because we were really going for

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Speaker 1: it and it was our time and it wasn't his time.

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Speaker 1: So we kept getting really good press, so ended that tour.

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Speaker 1: They booked our own little tour while we were there,

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Speaker 1: got great press, and the record started to pick up,

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Speaker 1: and somehow that's we came back to the States and

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Speaker 1: it spilled over. So it seems like it the the

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Speaker 1: live drove the record instead of the other way around. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at that time it did until the record caught on, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then it just and then what was the first

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Speaker 1: song that really caught on it was either Breakdown or

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Speaker 1: an American Girl. I think it was Breakdown. His Breakdown

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Speaker 1: got the most airplay, but then American Girl came on.

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Speaker 1: So if we were to go through and tell me

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Speaker 1: if you need to see the covers to be able

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Speaker 1: to remember, but how would you say if we talk

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Speaker 1: about each album in order, your memories of what made

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Speaker 1: each of those what it was? Do you know what

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00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,600
Speaker 1: I'm saying in the making of it? M would you

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Speaker 1: remember it? So? For from the first record and it's

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Speaker 1: the first So yeah, the first record was us finding

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00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,919
Speaker 1: what we were. Yeah, And I think American Girl was

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Speaker 1: the song I remember when we didn't we cut that song,

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Speaker 1: the arrangement on the harmonics on the guitar, the groove,

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Speaker 1: the character, the singing, the sound of the record. I

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Speaker 1: remember when we did that, even at my young ages,

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Speaker 1: that nobody else can do that quite like we do this.

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Speaker 1: This is our thing, chiming guitar thing that we still do.

354
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Speaker 1: And so that record was just a group of songs

355
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Speaker 1: that I love still probably might be my favorite record

356
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Speaker 1: of all. And it was us just like getting getting it,

357
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Speaker 1: figuring it out and kind of like, wow, you got

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Speaker 1: that this is good. You know. Second record was following

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Speaker 1: that up some good songs, maybe not quite as as

360
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,160
Speaker 1: deep in the songs, but getting a little more involved

361
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 1: in the studio, you know, production and layering and stuff.

362
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Speaker 1: Then we kind of reached a level where we were

363
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Speaker 1: kind of in a cult, I guess, and looking back

364
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 1: on it, we weren't huge mainstream yet, but we had

365
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Speaker 1: we could get gigs and we could maintain. And the

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Speaker 1: third album, Jimmy Iveen shows up and you know, it's like, okay,

367
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Speaker 1: we're on a mission. Listen, we want to we want

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Speaker 1: to really like grab it now, see if we can

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Speaker 1: really get you know, hit a home run instead of doubles,

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Speaker 1: you know. And so the third record, we worked really

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Speaker 1: hard on the sounds, like to where it wasn't fun

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Speaker 1: a lot of it. At times it was, but it

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Speaker 1: was really like a lot of pressure on ourselves and

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Speaker 1: nitpicky about you know, four days on a snare sound

375
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Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And yeah, there was the only

376
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Speaker 1: record I actually walked out on one session. We were

377
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Speaker 1: doing Refugee for the seventh day it's time, and and

378
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,119
Speaker 1: I just couldn't figure out why I didn't why it

379
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,160
Speaker 1: wasn't working, and I just and we've been trying. Okay,

380
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,159
Speaker 1: let's let do this. Let move the guitar amp over there,

381
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 1: let's try a different snare, let's try dadda da da da. Okay,

382
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Speaker 1: it doesn't sound right, and I just fuck this. I'm

383
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Speaker 1: out of here. I can't take this anymore. And I

384
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Speaker 1: when we left town, we went up to Santa Barbara

385
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Speaker 1: and I got a little house on the little shack

386
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Speaker 1: on the beach and just sat there for like, what

387
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: the fuck is happening? Why can't we make this song?

388
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 1: And of course it became one of our biggest songs

389
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,719
Speaker 1: that came back with My Hair Clears, the only time

390
00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 1: that the pressure got to me where I just gotatgue

391
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Speaker 1: out of this room because it got intense and we

392
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 1: were really hard on ourselves, and Ilevine was pushing for

393
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:10,199
Speaker 1: greatness too, and we were fighting that thing as you

394
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,640
Speaker 1: know in the studio where you know how the song

395
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 1: goes and you know how it sounds when you're standing

396
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 1: there playing together, and then you go into the control

397
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 1: room and it's a completely different sound, just doesn't sound

398
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: like anything like it did out there. How did we

399
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 1: get that in here? And it's not easy, No, it's

400
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: not easy, and that was driving us nuts, but we

401
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: did get it. It's a great sounding record, that's a

402
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,640
Speaker 1: unique sounding record looking back on it, anyone, I don't

403
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 1: have that answers your question. Yeah, so we're up to

404
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,119
Speaker 1: but now we're up to the third album and that

405
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 1: was one that we got. That's the first time where

406
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 1: it got unpleasant to be in the studio and it

407
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 1: was our biggest hit. Yeah, there you go, figure And

408
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 1: it took the longest to make at that point and

409
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 1: cost the most and cost the most. And then what

410
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: was after that, long after dark, was to follow up

411
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,919
Speaker 1: to that, and we did a record plant again with

412
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: Ivene and by that point we were feeling a little

413
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: full of ourselves because we'd had a big hit. You know,

414
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Speaker 1: I think Torpedoes got to number two because we hit

415
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 1: the wall, the Pink Floyd Wall. We couldn't craft rold one,

416
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Speaker 1: but it did really well and a couple of videos,

417
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 1: and so we felt, you know, we're we've now how

418
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Speaker 1: do we stay here? And it just continue on? I mean,

419
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Speaker 1: make another record as good as that one, And you know,

420
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: that's a that's an interesting thing with a musical career.

421
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Speaker 1: If you make a great record and every record after

422
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 1: that is going to be measured to that one. Yeah,

423
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Speaker 1: and we were figuring that out, you know, like and

424
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Speaker 1: you know when you when you have a little success,

425
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 1: you buy some time to experiment, like I said, try

426
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,199
Speaker 1: an orchestra, or try different players or different production ideas.

427
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: So we were doing some of that on the way

428
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: after dark and it had some hits on it. I

429
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: think you got Lucky and Woman in Love or No,

430
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: Woman's missed one Hard Promises. You're right, I should have

431
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: the album covers. Well, my heart promisesn't long after dark.

432
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: We're following, you know, continuation of torpedoes with Ivan, just

433
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 1: trying to you know, write great songs and make them

434
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: sound good and hope. Did it feel like it was

435
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: getting easier or harder? Would you say easier? Easier to record?

436
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: Easier to record because we learned yea, we learned for

437
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 1: my trial and Errorble, don't do that again. Don't set

438
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: the drums up where were there because I ain't gonna

439
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: sound good, you know, don't use that bass that didn't

440
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: sound good. Use this, We don't use that. Aunt. We

441
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: could save a lot of time, get straight to the

442
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: stuff we know that works, and spend more time in

443
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: the music and less on the sounds and that. So

444
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: in that sense it got easier. But you know, writing

445
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: great songs is always hard. I mean and yes and no.

446
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: You know, it's easy to write a song, but then

447
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: you got to measure it up against well, this is

448
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: pretty good, but is it damned the torpedo? Is it refugee?

449
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: Or here comes to my girl? Almost? Yeah, we'll get

450
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: back to work. It's hard to know. It's like, well,

451
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: you don't too close, You don't know, nobody knows. You

452
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: don't know until somebody says no, yeah, I don't think

453
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: so it doesn't sound good to me, But you don't

454
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: know because you're so close to it. And then you

455
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: get to a point where you realize you can't really

456
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 1: worry about it. Just do what, do the work, and

457
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: don't try to measure it up. Absolutely, it seems like

458
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 1: can you free yourself from it? You hear yourself, they

459
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 1: can come, The great songs can come much easier. That's

460
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: the trap, yeah, or the or the release if as

461
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: soon as you stopped thinking about what's wrong, there's nothing wrong. Yeah,

462
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: but um, but songs are mysterious, you know, as a

463
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: whole other conversation where they come from and why they

464
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 1: come when they come. But we just kept slugging along,

465
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: you know. After after Torpedoes, we bought some success and

466
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: had had more. Our lifestyles went up and we played

467
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 1: bigger gigs. We started playing arenas and it just felt

468
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 1: like living a dream. Or it sounds so corny, but

469
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 1: we were living the dream and we never thought we

470
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: really would or not. And then we're just looking at Wow,

471
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: just working out for us. How blessed are we? How

472
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: did this happen? Yeah? I could be back in games.

473
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: We're playing at the Woman's Club and here I am.

474
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: It mattered square garden. How did I get here? That's

475
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: the thing you're look at. How did I get here?

476
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: That pops up a lot. Yeah, anyway, you know, yeah,

477
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem possible. Well, there's hope. There's hope and dreams.

478
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Mike and Rick. After

479
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: the break. We're back with more of Rick's conversation with

480
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: Mike Campbell. So then after the so you did three

481
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: with Ivan, They got more comfortable as they went because

482
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: you learned from the first experience, which was the hardest,

483
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: but it also got stale. The relationship got stale. Because

484
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: we were tupamanger and then what was next jeff Lynn?

485
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: Jeff Lynn shows up and there's a whole new wave

486
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 1: of amazing creativity just happened. Saw all these songs came in,

487
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: and I think it makes I'm talking about it sounds

488
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: like when all the elements sort of fall into place,

489
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: the creative light comes on, you know what I mean

490
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: it did for us anyway, Like we got maybe a

491
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: little stale after those three albums, and then we had

492
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: Full Moone Fever, which was just like a burst of

493
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: great songs, absolutely new production, excitement, interest, discovery. It was

494
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: a whole new thing. It all just came together. But

495
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: without the songs, it wouldn't happen. But the songs I

496
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: think were triggered by all the energy, new fresh energy,

497
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: you know. And then when we worked with View too,

498
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: it was fresh energy, you a new perspective, new challenges.

499
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: Let's talk about running Down a Dream because that just

500
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: from I don't think I ever told you this, but

501
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: that's the song that really got me into the band.

502
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: I wrote that one, yeah, I know, and that's the

503
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: one that really got me and like that's the one

504
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: that made me a fan. So how did it come

505
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 1: about what was? If you want the true story? Yes,

506
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 1: why not? Um, it's interesting. You would never think this.

507
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm write, I'm writing all I'm writing

508
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: right now, I'm always writing. Okay. But I heard about

509
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: this band, Jane's Addiction, and they were playing at Devonshire,

510
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: some community center or something. I said, let's go see

511
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 1: this band. And I didn't like him that much, but

512
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: there was something about the rhythm or something that's interesting.

513
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: So I went back home and uh, I think that

514
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: night and I picked the guitar and running down a

515
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: Dream was originally I was thinking at halftime, which is

516
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: a groove that I heard them playing. Wow, it would

517
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: have been great halftime. Also, hear you sing it well.

518
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: So I did a demo that version, not thinking much

519
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: about it, gave it to Tom. He played it for Jeff,

520
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: but they just hooked up and Wurst sharing ideas. He

521
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: said they might get this demo and Jeff goes, it

522
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: should be double time and it became that. So, you know,

523
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: as songs are so mysterious, where do they come from?

524
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: If I hadn't gone to that gig, if I hadn't

525
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: done it halftime, if Jeff hadn't heard it double time.

526
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 1: Who knows it's it's it's magic. It just I mean,

527
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: it's beyond me. Really, it just happens in spite of me. Yeah.

528
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: It's so interesting though, to seek to see those connections

529
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: and to look and then then you hear it in

530
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: that finished version. Haven't known nothing about that. Something connects

531
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: with you. It's a great driving songs. I used to

532
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: drive around Los Angeles. I just moved to Los Angeles.

533
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: I used to drive around and I listened to that

534
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: album over and over and over again. I don't know

535
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: a million times forever not to speed up and that

536
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: I've had that experience, you like, oh yeah, I would

537
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: go another penny for us. I remember I called i'l Teller,

538
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: who was the person who was running the label that

539
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: you were on at the time, who I had known

540
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: from He was the chairman of Columbia Record, president of

541
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: Columbia Records when we had def Jam there, so I

542
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: knew him, and now he was at MCA and I

543
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: called him up and I said, hey, I just want

544
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 1: to let you know, if there's ever an opportunity for

545
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: me to work with these guys, I would love to

546
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: do that. And he said, well, that's not gonna He's like,

547
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: thank you very much, that's not going to happen. I saw.

548
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: It was an amazing conversations, like they worked with jeff

549
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: Lynn and thanks for the call, but no interest. It's like, okay,

550
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: thank you, so shot down and then oh yeah, just

551
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: coming back to me. Yeah. And then a couple of

552
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: years later, I was having lunch with mom Austin and

553
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: he said, can I tell you a secret? And I

554
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: said sure. He's like, well it's a secret. But we

555
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: signed Tom Petty. It's like, how did that happen? It's like, well,

556
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: they have one record left, so no one's allowed to know.

557
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: But he wanted to be with us and we made

558
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: the deal and I said, well, if there's ever an

559
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: opportunity to work with him, It's like, well, yeah, I

560
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: think you should meet with him, and he set it up.

561
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: Then it was like it was amazing how it came

562
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: around quickly. You know how I remember it, and tell

563
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. I remember. I think I was

564
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: on tour in Europe or someplace and somebody called me

565
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: and said Rick Rubin wants to talk to you, or

566
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: or somebody told me that you that you had liked

567
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: the record, or something, and I remember saying to Tom,

568
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: we should get this guy Rick Rubin in. He might

569
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: be a good producer. Maybe you don't know this or no, no,

570
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: I don't know that. I had a little bit to

571
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: do it at the beginning. And I don't know. I'm

572
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: trying to remember why I knew you. Where I knew

573
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: you from, probably the Chili Peppers because I was like,

574
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: liked the sound of one of the chilien earlier. And

575
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: I think, and we're we're gonna move away from you know,

576
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: we've done Jeff two albums. You should do something, get

577
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: more back to Live Man, because Jeff isn't Live Man.

578
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: And I said, well, you know, and I think you

579
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,479
Speaker 1: had contacted me. I had gotten some some for some reason,

580
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: I had the empathist to say to Tom, there's this

581
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: guy that I think would be good. Wow, and he's

582
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: interested and he said okay, and then we came in.

583
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,239
Speaker 1: That's how I remember. I could have it wrong. It's

584
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: amazing it could be again. I have no idea how

585
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: so you owe me. All I know was MO, the

586
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: Mo connection. Mo connection. That was what I remember the

587
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: most interesting. Well, it all happened, yeah, and it was

588
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: another phase creativity. Talk talk more about Jeff's the Jeff phase,

589
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: because I love the I love those records, um and

590
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: as you say, it was very different than anything you

591
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: had done before, so talk about how those were made.

592
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: It was such a wonderful experience working with Jeff and

593
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: so eye opening and educational. Tom and I had always

594
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: made records, mostly occasionally with a demo, but mostly band

595
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: playing live at the same time, and Jeff never does that.

596
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: So they had bumped into each other and had this

597
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: song free Fallen, and they wanted to record a demo.

598
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: So they came over to my little house which I

599
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: had a little soundcraft studio in a back bedroom, and

600
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: I did have a twenty four track machine, and they've

601
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: got this song free Fallen, and Jeff proceeded to lead

602
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: the recording. And my job just dropped watching this guy.

603
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: And I mean, I could go on about it. I I

604
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: don't know how much deeply you want to get into it.

605
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: I'm not going to give away any of your secrets,

606
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: although I could, because people learn the secrets, they still

607
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: can't do it. Yes, he just does it. But one

608
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: thing that blew my mind was we had this song

609
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: and a free falls a very simple song there's three

610
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: chords and he made it. He crafted it into this

611
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: three minute piece. He can't think. We came over at

612
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: twelve noon and by six o'clock the thing was done. Background, vocals,

613
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: guitar parts, everything, percussion done finished. What else you got? Wow?

614
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 1: And I'd never seen it done that fast before. And

615
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: it's because he knew how to get what he wanted

616
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: really fast. What was the order of events that? Okay,

617
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: here's how you here's the Jeff Lynn, sorry, Jeff, the

618
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: formula which no one can touch you, so I can

619
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: say this. We would go in. The song was written

620
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: an acoustic guitar. We'd we'd learn it. Okay, let's go.

621
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: We'd get a One secret to that formula is we

622
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: used a drum machine because we didn't have a drummer.

623
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,919
Speaker 1: It was just the three of us. But the drum

624
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 1: machine was dead simple, just boom boom, the silest bump bump, bump, bump, bup, bump,

625
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,919
Speaker 1: nothing it boom boom, so at least plenty of room

626
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: for other rhythms, other basses. You can change it later,

627
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: but to start with just basically a metronome, but with

628
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: a drum machine with good sounds. So we go out

629
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: and play this song down on acoustic guitar. Okay, let's

630
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: double that two or three at a time. Let's do

631
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: that again. So now you've got six acoustic guitars going shaging.

632
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: Sounds really rich. Okay. Then we'd go, okay, let's let's

633
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: put a guide vocal on it, which most usually became

634
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: the real vocal, so we know where the verses and

635
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: choruses are. And then most likely Jeff had to sound

636
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: on a OBX sysus. It's just a pad sound like

637
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: a harmonium sound, and he would put that in following

638
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: the chords of the acoustic guitar, which would just be

639
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: underneath it, which kind of glued it all together. And

640
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: then the background vocals. Because it's on a drum machine,

641
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 1: the tempo does not change from one course to the next,

642
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: so basically we work on the one chorus, pop that

643
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: into all the courses. Done the one chorus. Okay, we're

644
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: on a twenty four track analog machine. I don't know

645
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 1: how technically you want to get stomped me or cut

646
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 1: it out later, but I've told you this before. Maybe

647
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: you probably like this because you're a producer. So we

648
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 1: had a twenty four track machine. Okay, we already put

649
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: like six tracks of double acoustic guitars. Got maybe you

650
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: used up eight tracks. Okay, Okay, the vocals, we're gonna

651
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: need like twenty tracks for the vocals, So we make

652
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: a slave. We'd maybe do a rough mixed onto the

653
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: two inch or the quarter inch. Get a fresh piece

654
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: of twenty four track tape, take that stereo mix, put

655
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,919
Speaker 1: it onto two tracks. There you got twenty two tracks. Open.

656
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: Let me go to the chorus. Okay, I'm free. Okay,

657
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: let's sing that together. I'm free. Let's do it six times.

658
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: So there's twelve voices going I'm free, I'm free. Okay,

659
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 1: let's do twelve of those. You build the thing, and

660
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: Jeff just knew which notes to do and how to move,

661
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 1: you know. But it was usually him and Tom singing

662
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: together on the backgrounds to make a sound. But you

663
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: ended with this glob of the chorus comes on. It's like,

664
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: you know, this big sound. Then the tricky part was, okay,

665
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: now you take the twenty four track and you mute

666
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: the guitars. It's all vocals, you blend them together, you

667
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: copy them over to the quarter inch. Okay, so now

668
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: all those twenty tracks or whatever are in stereo on

669
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: two tracks. You put the master twenty four track back

670
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: up and then you sit there and you count one, two, three, four,

671
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: play until you get it and sync on each chorus.

672
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: So now you're back on your Master. You've only used

673
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: up two tracks and you've got these huge twenty track

674
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: choruses coming in. Amazing, And you could do that with

675
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: a guitar lick. You can do that with anything, and

676
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: it's kind of fun, you know, like, oh we missed it,

677
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: do it again, one, two, three, okay, one more time.

678
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: You know, very analog organic, but when you get it, okay,

679
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: there it is. You know, nowadays you just push your

680
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: button and pro tools to do that for you in

681
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: two seconds. But it was kind of fun doing it.

682
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: You have to get down on your knees and you know,

683
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: and market and stuff mark the tape so you know

684
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: where to start from. Yeah. Amazing, Yeah, really good anything.

685
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: But then so the record was, you know, Niver spent

686
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: more than two days. Would you put the drums on last? Yeah,

687
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: so we've got a drum machine and we would keep

688
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: the kick drum because we had this really good Lyn

689
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: drum kick drum and he hatched just as a behind it,

690
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 1: and we'd overdubbed the sneer drum by itself. And the

691
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: advantage to that if you listen to Jess Rickers the

692
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: drum sub but really unique. Each drum is open because

693
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: they're not all fighting for the sonic space at the

694
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: same time. So you're just doing the snare rum. You

695
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 1: put all the mics up, hit the sneers, beautiful sneer

696
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: stand without symbols or anything else. And we had this

697
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: guy Phil Jones, a drummer percussionist who would come in.

698
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: He'd sit there and put a tale on his leg

699
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: and live performance of the snare drum. If he got off,

700
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: we'd stop. Pick it up. But it's not like a

701
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: sample triggering. He's actually playing it, and that there's a

702
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: drum fill coming up, we'd stop. Okay, we need a

703
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,919
Speaker 1: drum fill. Okay, got that. Go back to the song

704
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: and the Tom Tom. We need Tom Tom, Phil, Okay,

705
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: let's go once again. Tom's by themselves, symbols by themselves.

706
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: They were orchestrated. And that's why those records did he

707
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: make sounds so beautiful because nothing's getting in the way

708
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 1: sonically of anything else. But you know, that's that's the

709
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: the basic formula. But when when did um Where in

710
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: that story is when did don't come around here? No

711
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: more happened? Because that was also made in a more

712
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: mechanical way as that's the previous album that was Dave Stewart.

713
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: Did you do a whole album with Dave? No just

714
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: that song or two, two or three sons that was

715
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: done with the drum machine. That was during Hard Promises,

716
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: which is an album that got bogged down. We got

717
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: bogged down what we were trying to do, and he

718
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: came along, had this demo which Tom liked, and we

719
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: It started with a a drum machine loop of some

720
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: sort and Dave did his thing and at the end

721
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: we had the whole band come on and do the

722
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: the ending and play it out, you know. So it

723
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: sounded like a band. It's kind of a mix of

724
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: both worlds cool And that was supposed to be Stevie

725
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: Nicks's song. Was it? Ivene was hooked up with Dave

726
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: and working with Stevie and so he heard that song.

727
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: He said, oh, and the rhythmics aren't doing this? Can

728
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: I have it for Stevie? And she hated it? So

729
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: Jimmy said, oh, well, how about Tom, So it came

730
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: down the line to us. There you go. We'll be

731
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: right back with more from Mike Campbell. After a quick break,

732
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: we're back with the rest of Mike and Rick's conversation

733
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: and his new song Southern Boy from his band the

734
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: Dirty Knobbs album Reckless Abandoned. What are your first memories

735
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: of our working together, because that's what came next in

736
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,479
Speaker 1: the in the story. First thing it pops into mind

737
00:40:54,600 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: is you wreck me Chris. We were as auditioning drummers

738
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: at the time. I don't know if you were part

739
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: of the drummer you were, I remember, and I just

740
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: remember you showed up and you were really good with

741
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 1: helping us pick the songs and talking about what type

742
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: of songs you might want to try to write, and

743
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 1: getting the grooves right, like you don't know how it feels.

744
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 1: I remember that was a discussion about some Steve Milber

745
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: song and you could take a groove like that and

746
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: make a song at it in our own way, as

747
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: a lot of ideas come from other things and you

748
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: make it your own. But that's what I remember most

749
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: is being really deep into the song choices and the

750
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: grooves and the sounds. We didn't seem to struggle it

751
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: with sounds too much. It didn't feel like it was

752
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: hard to get that band to sound good. It felt

753
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: like it just naturally sounded so good. I don't remember

754
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: struggling it all, not like Torpedoes now. The sounds were

755
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: always pretty good, and we just worked on the music,

756
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: you know, and just you know, dropping bad songs are

757
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: bringing in better ones. Yeah. I remember the only song

758
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: that was written when I came the first time, um

759
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 1: was Good to be King was the song that Tom

760
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 1: already had and good And I remember coming to your

761
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: house and we listened to it, and I think there

762
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: was there may have been a I think there was

763
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: a demo for it, kind of demo in my house. Yeah,

764
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: funky sounding demo, but we had an idea of it, Yeah,

765
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: I remember that. But I remember that was all there was,

766
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,919
Speaker 1: and then we just sort of talked about what could

767
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: be the rest of them, what else the rest of

768
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: it could look like, you know, as we're talking about

769
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: just and look back over the project, I see a

770
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: theme appearing. And the theme seems to be when the

771
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 1: elements all come together, you got the right people in

772
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: the right space and time the songs materialized. Yeah, I can.

773
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,399
Speaker 1: I can tell you one thing that I oh wait,

774
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: I don't I've never I don't remember ever voicing this before,

775
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: but I remember feeling over time that with Tom, I

776
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: felt like on the first album, on Wildflowers, our first

777
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: album together, he really wanted to impress me. He worked

778
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: hard to impress me, and once he felt like he

779
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: had done that on that album, I never felt like

780
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: he tried his hard again on any of the other

781
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: things we did. I think he was did you know,

782
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: did great? But it was a nature of prison. It

783
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: was a different like I want to win over this

784
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: new person. Yeah, And I think it sounds like that

785
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: kept happening with the different people over the years. Well

786
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: that's a reoccurring thing too. I mean, somebody said a

787
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: producer shouldn't work with a band for more than two

788
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: records because the first thing, you're trying to impress each

789
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: other and pull the best out, and then it's like, Okay,

790
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: now we're gonna do it again. There's the same thing again.

791
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: You already know you're impressed with me. I already know

792
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: you know what you can about your capable of and

793
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: there's no mystery about it. I think a mystery and

794
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 1: the danger is what brings out the really great stuff.

795
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, you could say that about all the jeff

796
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: too and read your point where well, you know, it's

797
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: almost like as an artist and I can't speak for Tom,

798
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: but I can speak for myself and maybe partially for

799
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 1: him because I know him really well. You have a producer,

800
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: you're The producer is to bring out the best in

801
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 1: you and to keep you from getting up you're lost

802
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: up your own ass, which is easy to do when

803
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: you're producing yourself. Okay, So when you first get with

804
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 1: the producer, you want to make that connection where he

805
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: pushes you and you can prove to him what you

806
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: can do. You know, and you're interested in everything he

807
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: says because it's new and oh that's really smart. I

808
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: hadn't thought of that. After a couple of hourtitude, if

809
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: I played this song, I already know what you're going

810
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: to think of it, because I know you now and

811
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: you can still do good work. But if you don't,

812
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: you only get one shot at that initial thing. Interesting. Yeah,

813
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 1: it is interesting. It's like I said, it's hard to

814
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: talk about music sometimes because it's birds fail you. But

815
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: it's very mystical and where songs come from and where

816
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: you know, great records just happen. It's kind of just

817
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: a blessing and a mystery, you know, and luck. So

818
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: then after that, what was the next period? I was

819
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: going to say, It's like I think with Tom and you,

820
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: I think it got to a point too where at

821
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: the beginning you pushed him like that birst can be

822
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: better or that song can be better, and he listened

823
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 1: to you. And I think we should point too where

824
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: when you're really like confident in yourself, like I don't

825
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: want anybody telling me what to do. I want to

826
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 1: do it my way, and I don't really want that

827
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: opinion right now at this point, I don't want to

828
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 1: be bothered with your point of view. I don't want

829
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: you analyzing or critiquing what I want to do. I

830
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: just want to go do it. Yeah, And which is fine.

831
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: There's nothing personal, it's just creative energy. So I think

832
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: after I also remember there was a period I can't

833
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 1: remember which album it was, towards the end of the

834
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: ones that we made together, where Tom sort of went

835
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: through a dark phase. If you remember, he showed up

836
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 1: a studio with a cane echo. Yeah, and yeah, he

837
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: was not the regular time or personal problems going on there. Yeah,

838
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: texts everything due absolutely, but you remember it was like

839
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: the whole energy. I remember the whole energy shifted for

840
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,959
Speaker 1: a while. It was dark. I'm sad, yeah, and I'd

841
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: rather not remember too much of that. But you're right,

842
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: it was a phase we went through. I think some

843
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: there was some interesting songs that came out of it.

844
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:54,479
Speaker 1: And nonetheless, like uh, echo was a good song room

845
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 1: at the top of the world, and it was there.

846
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: There were some good songs, but it was a it

847
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: was a you know, you're in life or in and creativity,

848
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: you go through ups and downs and dark periods and

849
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: great periods. And I remember fun being in the studio

850
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: at that time. It wasn't fun. No, that that little way,

851
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: And that's the thing me personally, And we did that

852
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: and we lived through it and we survived that. But

853
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: me personally, especially at this point in my life, like

854
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: I just did this record with my own band, and

855
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: it's fun. Yeah, it's gotta be. I make it fun,

856
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: you know, And when when guys are having fun, you

857
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: can hear it, you can feel it, you can tell.

858
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 1: I'll be happy when you get to hear my record. Yeah,

859
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: I can't wait. You want to listen to a song now,

860
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: it's a really good record, great, I want to hear. Yeah, Well,

861
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: let's just play. This is the one that got a

862
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: little bit of an angus rhythm, guitar, great groove, Thank you.

863
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: Who's who's in the band. It's me Matt log on

864
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: the drums, my friend Jason Say on guitar, and Lance

865
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: Morrison on the bass. So cool. Yeah, you know, I

866
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 1: remember that was really fun. While we were making Wildflowers,

867
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: we went into ocean Way with the with the Heartbreakers

868
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: and we did a few in a short time. In

869
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: a few days, we recorded about one hundred songs. I

870
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember that, but ended up being

871
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: most of what's on that box set. Okay, we did

872
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: a lot of covers. Okay, the playback set. Yeah, but

873
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: I remember that. Do you remember going to ocean Way

874
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 1: and it was to it was Tom's idea, was I

875
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: think it was? Um the old record Company was going

876
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: to put out the Greatest Hits record and they needed

877
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: two songs for the Greatest Hits album, and the album

878
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: Wildflowers was going to be a quote unquote Tom Petty

879
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: solo record and it had a different vibe. And we

880
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 1: were doing that at sound City and Tom said, well,

881
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 1: for the two songs, I don't want to record them

882
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: in the wild Flowers setting. Let's set up a different studio.

883
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: We'll do it completely differently. And we did the two

884
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 1: songs for that album, which were Mary Jane, Mary Jane

885
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: and the cover something in the Air, Something in the Air,

886
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: But we also recorded a million covers just for fun.

887
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: Mary Jane Shure turned out good. Yeah, I can remember. Also,

888
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't even know if you know

889
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: this story, but Tom sent me a rehearsal tape of

890
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 1: song ideas and he's like, Okay, what do you think

891
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: because it was like a separate writing session for the

892
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: Greatest Hits, like what's going to be on the Greatest Hits?

893
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 1: And it had a bunch of songs on it, and

894
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 1: I remember not liking any of it. I just didn't

895
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: think it was good. But in between in between a

896
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: couple of the songs, or in between one of the songs,

897
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: that was the guitar riff, and it was you playing

898
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: what ended up being Last Dance with Mary Jane. Oh.

899
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: That guitar riff was like it wasn't one of the

900
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: songs on the tape. It was just a riff in

901
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: between songs. That happens a lot, like a preparation riff. Yeah, yeah,

902
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,720
Speaker 1: that happens a lot with our band between the songs. Yeah.

903
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: And I remember saying to Tom, it's like that is

904
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: the song? Whatever that is is the song? Cool? Yeah, mystery.

905
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 1: Yeah it worked out, It worked out. Yeah, crazy, what

906
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: a life. Amazing to feel old now. But you're right.

907
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people we've had, we had

908
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: several peaks, and most bands are lucky to get one. Absolutely,

909
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 1: and I don't know, we're just blessed. But I think

910
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: we just, you know, Tom and to some extent me

911
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: tuned into some songs that are timeless. Absolutely. What was

912
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: the energy like on the last tour? It was great.

913
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: It really was beautiful. And we had no idea. I mean,

914
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: he had a little a bit of hip pain, but

915
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: I know if it had been really bad, we'd have

916
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: heard about it. Yeah, it was just a minor nuance

917
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: and he was happy. And I remember the last the

918
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: last gig at the Hollywood Ball I looked at his

919
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: face at one point and he was just beaming and

920
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 1: he was so proud of the audience and so proud

921
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: of him and the band and to be in that moment,

922
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking like, wow, I want to I

923
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: want my head to be in that space. So it

924
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:49,439
Speaker 1: was a beautiful tour. I mean, yeah, if you got

925
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: to go out, that's a good way to go out.

926
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 1: I still can't believe he's gone. I haven't two years

927
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:00,040
Speaker 1: now or over two years. Yeah, I'm okay with it

928
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,879
Speaker 1: most of the time. It hits maybe now and then,

929
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: but you know, you have to just makes no sense, bizarre,

930
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: But I guess life that doesn't make sense, mishap, you know.

931
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:13,839
Speaker 1: I try not to do all on it too much.

932
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: Of course, I'm very proud of what we did. When

933
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: I hear stuff on the radio, that's good work, you know.

934
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: That was weird. I remember the day after getting the news.

935
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: It was at dinner in a place in Santa Monica,

936
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 1: and one of the songs from the first one of

937
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: the songs from the first album came on just I

938
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 1: don't know if it was in memorial or if they

939
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: just happened, if it just happened to come on in

940
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: a playlist, And I remember feeling like in hearing the music,

941
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: I felt like, oh, he's more alive than ever before.

942
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 1: It's like this is this is a lot, this is

943
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: a live where here like this lives. That's the beauty

944
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: of music. Yeah, mutic is Forever. Thanks to Mike Campbell

945
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: for running down the history of the Heartbreakers and sharing

946
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: its new music with Rick. You can hear all of

947
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: our favorite music featuring Mike Campbell by checking out the

948
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 1: playlist for this episode at broken record podcast dot com.

949
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced help from Jason Gambrell, Mia Lobell,

950
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: and Leah Rose for Pushkin Industries. I've Been music is

951
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.