WEBVTT - Episode 11: What It Takes to Be Rich 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:04.000 Mr Trump after we published a story putting his net 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:06.280 worth at two point nine billion, came out in in 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:09.320 the Daily Mail and he said I was a dope 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:16.720 kid and wet behind the years. This episode is brought 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.200 to you by Nadex, the Binary Options Exchange. Binary Options 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:22.480 let you limit your risk and trade stock in disese 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.800 commodities for x and more from a single account. Nat 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:30.040 X is a CFTC regulated exchange with transparency, free market data, 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:33.640 and fairness guaranteed. The future of trading is here now 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.960 at n A d e x dot com futures, options 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.440 and swaps. Trading involves risk and may not be appropriate 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:47.600 for all investors. Hi, and welcome back to Bloomberg benchmarkt 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:51.120 podcasts about the global economy. It is Thursday, November twelve, 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.480 and I'm Tory Stillwell, an economics reporter with Bloomberg News 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:56.280 in d C. And I'm joined this week by my 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:00.000 co host, Akiedo, our editor for Benchmark in San Francisco, 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:03.160 and Dan is taking the day off to prepare for 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:05.039 his big move to New York. So it's just me 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:08.920 and Ywauki. Tori, how's it going pretty good? Do you 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:12.920 want to tell everyone about your Hawaiian adventure. Oh my gosh. Yeah, 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:16.800 I almost called in from Hawaii today where I was 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:21.000 on vacation, but sadly, I'm now back in reality. While 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.200 you were in Hawaii, did you have a chance to 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:30.039 follow some of the riveting monetary policy proceedings that happened. 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:36.760 I did see this one which definitely surprised me. It went, 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:42.840 God wants Yellen to delay rate hike to spring, lawmaker says, um. 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:46.680 This was Brad Sherman, who is a California Democrat and 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.560 the House of Representatives, and it was at a congressional 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:55.280 hearing where lawmakers were asking Janet Yellen fed chair all 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:59.280 these questions. Let's play the tape. God's plan is not 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:04.160 for things to rise in the autumn a matter of fact, 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:07.640 that's why we call it fall. Nor is it God's 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:11.079 plan for things to rise in the winter through the snow. 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:16.200 God's plan is that things rise in the spring, and 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.160 so if you want to be good with the Almighty, 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:25.800 you might want to delay until May. Okay, So was 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:30.280 it the nuttiest thing you've ever heard in a congressional hearing? Yeah, No, 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:32.560 that was the best. I think that just that's just 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.440 like quote of the century in terms of monetary policy. 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.760 I don't know, maybe there are better quotes, but incredible. Yeah. 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.640 And we should also note that after the hearing, Brad 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:45.560 German went on Twitter and said, don't actually think God 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:49.680 has an opinion on monetary policy, but if she did, 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.000 she with a capital s she would agree that the 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:57.480 EFFENC shouldn't increase rates in winter. Yeah. I think next 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.440 time maybe we could make a sacrifice to a follow 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:04.520 or something like that, like get some other deities involved here, 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.160 you know what I'm saying, Get all the gods on 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.120 our side. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So the context of 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.760 this is that the Federal Reserve is about to raise 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.919 interest rates. A lot of people think that this interest 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:19.960 rate hike is going to come in December next month, 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:24.000 so uh, you know, yelling is starting to come under 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.280 pressure from a lot of lawmakers to delay that um 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:30.080 And that's not surprise, right, It's it's not every day 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:35.560 that monetary policy is involved in these divine discussions, But 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.000 it's no surprise at all that a lot of people 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:42.120 want interest rates to stay at zero forever. At the 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:46.040 same time, a lot of people are pushing for interest 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:50.520 rates to be hyped sooner rather than later, especially some 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:54.680 of the more conservative leaning legislators who think that the 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.960 FED is really playing with fire here and they got 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.520 a little bit more ammunition. Or I guess maybe God 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:03.680 has a little bit working against him or her. I 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:07.800 don't I don't know. But the job's report came in, uh, 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:12.000 pretty strong for October. Payrolls were the strongest this year 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:16.120 two one, and wages were up two point five percent 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.120 from the year before, and that is a clear break 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:21.600 from the wage worth pattern that we've seen since the 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.520 recovery started. Really great news there, and if the trend 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.040 of higher wages continues, that'd be great news because it 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.039 helped alleviate some of the increase in income inequality that 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.400 we've seen over the past few years. And you know, 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.039 we've been hearing a lot about income inequality. Angus Deton, 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.320 who we spoke with a couple of weeks back when 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.760 the Nobel Prize this year, after doing research on it. 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.400 Herschiko started it late last month as something that's actually 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.480 hurting their sales, and it seems like every US presidential 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.360 candidate is being asked what they do to fix it. 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.159 Tori on the show, we've talked about average wages, we've 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:57.000 talked about median wages, but we haven't really talked about 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.400 the fact that the fates for the rich and the 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.120 poor the book, who are on opposite ends of the spectrum, 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:06.640 have been really different in how they're diversion. So hopefully 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.680 for today's episode, we'll be able to talk about what 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:13.039 it takes to be rich in America. Today. Well, let's 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:16.839 talk a little bit more about these income tears for 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.880 the quote rich and the quote core. Uh, let's break 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.560 those down a little bit. And we talked to our 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:27.440 data guru, Waylu. She's based in New York and crunches 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:31.080 just incredible amounts of census data for us. She's just 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:35.640 amazing at it. And she told me that Bloomberg generally 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:41.200 defines riches the top twenty of incomes and inteen you 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.800 were by that definition, you were rich if you made 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.560 a little over a hundred and twelve thousand dollars, if 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.760 that's what your household income was. By contrast, the bottom 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:54.320 twenty percent, you're in that bottom twenty if you your 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.920 household made about twenty one five hundred dollars. So there's 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:02.000 about a one hundred thousand dollar different, right, It's pretty big, 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:05.080 and poverty at the way low end of the spectrum. 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.039 A single person is living in poverty if they make 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.760 about eleven thousand, seven hundred seventy dollars or less a year. 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:14.600 So I feel like that's really low for the poverty line. 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:18.039 I mean eleven thousand dollars a year. It depends on 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.200 how many people are living in the household. To the 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:24.240 more people you have, the threshold gets a little higher. Um. 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.159 But yeah, it's it's mind blowing that someone could could 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.640 survive on that limited amount of money, you know, Tori. 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.440 Why does it matter if the rich are earning a 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:36.760 bigger share of the pie the way they have been 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:38.919 over the last twenty years. I mean, if the pie 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.919 is getting bigger and on average people are earning more, 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.440 doesn't really matter if some people are taking more and 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.240 more of the pie than others. I think the main 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.320 reason people are concerned about it is because we know 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:58.600 that poor people spend a much larger proportion of their 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:02.120 incomes in their paychecks than rich people do. And to 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:06.359 kind of illustrate this, I have some data, of course, um, 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.640 and it's it's actually kind of striking. The first time 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.040 I looked at it, I got it mixed up. Because 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:14.120 the numbers are so crazy. But so for the lowest 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:19.600 twenty percentile of income, their income before taxes was about 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:24.200 ten thousand dollars in the year ended June. This is 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.040 coming from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, about ten thousand dollars. 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:31.120 Think of that, their average annual expenditures for that same 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:35.160 amount of time was about twenty three thousand dollars. So 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:37.559 they're going in like huge amounts of debt here based 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:42.040 on their income UM. By contrast, the highest twentieth percentile, 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:46.320 their income before taxes is about a hundred sixty six thousand, 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.520 and they're spending about a hundred and one thousand UM, 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:53.400 so much smaller sharing. So they're just they're just not 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.400 spending as much, right, and they spend on totally different 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.240 things um. Where people often spend much more money on 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:05.040 food and housing, whereas wealthier people will funnel a lot 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:08.520 more money into things like pensions and insurance UM. So 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.240 a lot of economists have talked about this as a 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.360 reason as to why the recovery may have been so weak, 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.840 because we've got, you know, this concentration of wealth and 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.880 these people aren't spending it as much as I should say, right, 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:27.600 so there's normal person rich and then there's rich person rich, 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:32.040 which is kind of that seems like an alien universe 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:33.719 to me. But do you want to go over those 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:37.680 numbers too waylou Again, our data guru told me that 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.320 that super rich is going to be like the top 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:44.600 five percent of household incomes and that was about a 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:49.319 little over two hundred and six thousand dollars for a household. 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:51.960 The ultra rich is going to be like the top 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.000 one percent. And for that data, I am going over 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.880 to UH to E p I. They wrote this big, 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:01.000 big report at the start of the year UM looking 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:05.800 at income inequality trends for for decades. For the US, 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.720 the average income of the top one percent was about 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.520 one point three million dollars. If we want to think 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.360 like out of your mind rich, like stupid amount of 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:21.960 money wrenching. Uh. The threshold there, the income threshold of 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:25.640 the top point zero one person is nine point nine 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.680 million dollars. Uh. We're gonna take a quick break for 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:30.880 a word from our sponsor, but when we come back, 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.320 we will try to add some color to all these 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:35.959 numbers that I just spouted off. You know, we want 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.599 to attach real people to them, and why we plebeians 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:44.480 would even care after the break? What do traders want 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.720 to limit risk? Access every opportunity and trade on a 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.680 level playing field. 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To find out 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.200 a little more what these people are like, like what 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:33.600 kind of lifestyles they must have. We've drafted Caleb Melby, 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:37.480 a reporter for our executive pay team whose main job 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.319 it is to try to figure out how much money 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.800 people are making. And before he was with us here 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.360 at Bloomberg, he was a reporter at Forbes, where he 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.680 got the license to run around the country hunting for 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.160 hidden billionaires, which he also does here, and before that 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.560 he was an intern in New York living in the 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.640 same dorm as me. Hello, Caleb, what what are these 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.680 people like? Hey? I mean it was interesting listening you 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.080 talk about that, that that top tier, that that million 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:07.080 what was a million and a half? Is that what 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.280 you're thinking about? Yeah, So, so to give you an idea, 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:14.679 like how much farther beyond that percentage point, uh you 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.840 can go? I mean, uh, at at the Bloomberg Pay Index, 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:22.200 we're tracking uh the two d highest paid people and uh, 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:25.800 they're they're making each of them upwards of twenty million 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:28.439 dollars a year. And when you were talking earlier about 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.679 how they spend that money on different things, they're they're 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:35.360 point in pensions, they're pointing in in insurance. I mean 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.520 that's simply because it's really hard to try to figure 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.120 out how to spend all that money, and a lot 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.680 of them really defer it and often in uh tax 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:49.080 advantaged ways, um sock it away for the future. I 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.000 feel like it is not that hard for me to 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.600 figure out how to spend a couple of million dollars UM. 0:11:54.720 --> 0:12:00.520 So I don't want to sound too sympathetic, No, I 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.480 don't mean mean to be uh to ask you to 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.360 feel an overwhelming amount of empathy for them. These are 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:11.800 very specialized problems. I was I was in one billionaire's 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.600 apartment about a month ago, and I won't to tell 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.120 you who it was, but he was he was obsessed, 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:19.480 um with trying to figure out how to pass his 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:24.320 international company onto his heirs in this tax efficient way. 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.560 And that's one of those things that you really see 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:30.679 occupying their thoughts. Your your your normal person is trying 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:32.800 to figure out how to stock away enough for retirement 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.000 and and for them, it's how do I take everything 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:40.320 I've sucked away and pass it on to the next 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:45.200 generation of familial ownership. How many billionaires have you met 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.920 in your life? Uh? You know I I've been to 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:53.440 conferences where there's there's dozens of them. So at this point, 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:58.839 your who's my favorite? There's a really colorful character out 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.560 in Brooklyn. His name is David will lent Us. He 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:06.600 essentially built the neighborhood of Dumbo, this uh chic industrial 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:12.840 neighborhood right on the water. And he's this really crass, funny, 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.320 brash guy. Who who Who's the first to admit that 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.160 you do not have to be a genius to make 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.000 it in real estate. And I find I find his 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:28.200 honesty very very um exciting and new, and as far 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:30.120 as billionaires go, he's the sort of guy you can 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.560 talk to and don't feel like you're talking to an alien. 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:36.439 Tell us more about your job, what do you do 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:39.160 every day? More often than now we are we are 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:43.640 not meeting executives. We are not meeting billionaires. That's not 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:45.480 what our day and day out looks like. It does 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.440 happen sometimes, and and that's that's fun. But normally people 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:54.040 are not particularly interested unless you're talking about, say Donald Trump, 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.360 uh in talking about what they make or how much 0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:59.680 they're worth. So we spend a lot of our time 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:05.640 talking into off the record sources, former employees, insiders, going 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:10.439 through documents, making Foyer requests to the government to unseal 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.880 certain documents or acquire certain documents that help shed light 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:17.200 on these massive fortunes that are at the center of 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.800 you know, the world economy. You've met Donald Trump, right, yeah, 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.720 a few times now, and he's called you what was what? 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:28.640 What was that that he called you Donald after we 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:36.400 published a story, said Donald, Mr Trump, after we published 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.000 a story putting his net worth at two point nine 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.760 billion came out in in the Daily Mail, and he, 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.560 according to the Daily Mail story, said I was a 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:50.440 dopey kid and wet behind the ears. Sounds that right, Yeah, 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.920 he's He's not not a guy who who takes slights 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:58.920 light lightly. By the way, how much what is Donald 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:03.480 Trump's network earth compared to the approximately ten billion that 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:07.680 he has self reported to the media, So we we 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.000 put him at two point nine billion as opposed to 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.760 that ten billion, and uh, one really big way to 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:15.960 account for a large part of that gap is the 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.520 three point three billion he ascribes to his brand value 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:24.840 that he considers like it a line item all onto itself, um, 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.520 which is certainly a really special asset to have. And 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.440 when we talked to experts, we uh they said that 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.440 for like his uh, you know, collection of golf courses, 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.920 there is a Trump premium. It means something to play 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.120 golf on a on a Trump course, and and that 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.040 that's applied to our valuation of those golf courses. But 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.080 when you look at certain things like say Trump Tower 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.160 here in New York, a lot of that is condos 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.760 that he's since sold off long ago. So you see 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.320 that huge skyscraper you assume it has to be worth 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.000 a lot of money, and it is, but there's actually 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:02.160 hundreds of other people that have sentach chunks of what 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.040 what a skyscraper like that is worth? And what would 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:11.320 you say that your brand value is, Caleb, my my 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:19.640 brand value is? I mean, can I get a Chipotle burrito? Yeah? Man, 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.880 after my own heart. So, Caleb, you and I have 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:25.800 talked about this a little a little bit last week, 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.960 but I was chatting with a friend and he actually 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:32.680 got a little a little hot and bothered because some 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.840 of your colleagues, all of our colleagues, broke this news 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:41.680 about a Walmart air being twenty seven billion dollars poor 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.600 than everyone else thought. And he was mad because he 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.520 basically said, I mean the like the cliff Notes version 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:52.880 is we're being nosy. Why does it matter they're still billionaires? 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.480 And why would we like splash this all over the 0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:00.120 front page of our website? So rude, et cetera. Um, 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:04.560 there's no journalistic value in this. What is the journalistic value? 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.439 It's a fair question. And is somebody who when he 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.359 was in college imagined he'd be writing album reviews his 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.480 whole life? Uh? I like, I I definitely sympathize with him. 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:18.199 But the report that David DeYoung and Tom Metcalf put 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:22.240 out on Christie Walton and her son Lucas Walton, I 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.280 encourage anybody to go out and read it. And the 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.280 question as to what news value this has, I think 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:32.280 becomes once you get past that headline number pretty relevant. 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.240 I mean, you have this family that controls what is 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:39.480 currently I believe, like the third the second biggest company 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:43.640 in America UM, and how they divvy up that fortune 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:45.600 and how they control it, and in turn, how they 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:50.760 control Walmart Company, I think is inherently newsworthy. And as 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.440 you dig farther into that story, what David and Tom 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:59.760 uncovered was this fascinating estate structure that helped UH John Walton, 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:04.080 Christie's UH now deceased husband, essentially cut his tax bill 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.920 in half. So when we're talking about policy in terms 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:09.960 of income inequality, we we need to look at the 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.840 decisions we've already made as a nation in terms of 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.920 the options available to the super rich for passing these 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:19.840 fortunes on. You know, because one, once you you move 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:24.800 past that five million estate threshold, big taxes start to 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.159 kick in, and yet we still have all these loopholes. 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.720 And I think if you droll into that story, beyond 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.760 the fact that there's this guy who nobody has really 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.680 ever heard of or talked about, Lucas Walton, who has 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.320 most of what we thought was his mother Christie's fortune, 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.639 what you see is this really interesting passing of the 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.199 torch that helped avoid a lot of taxes for the 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:47.160 Walton family. You know, I think this really comes down 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:51.440 to the fact that it's really hard to know how 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:55.280 much everyone's wealth is. You know, wealth is different from income. 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.840 Income is what you make every year, but wealth is 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.000 the amount of money that you accumulated over a lifetime. 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:05.280 It's all over the place, often in multiple countries if 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:09.359 you're a rich person, the way many of Caleb subjects are, 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:13.520 and so it's really it's it's not a very transparent universe. 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:15.920 That's why I think your team, Caleb is really cool, 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:20.080 because you're bringing more transparency to this space. Yeah, and 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.360 I mean we I've talked to readers about our stories before, 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:25.800 and some of them are just interested in those big numbers. 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.919 Some of them are interested in those entrepreneurial stories. Some 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:33.080 of them are interested in those, uh, the tax strategies, 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.959 the way they allocate that wealth like you were describing Aki, 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.199 and probably for our readers, like keeping up with the 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.640 Jones is to like how close am I think? Absolutely? 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:46.240 How how close am I I could be them? Um? 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:50.159 If you dig into any major wealth story, there's almost 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.080 always some element of luck, which I think keeps us 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.800 all reading because we always hope that maybe we could 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.040 have that. Especially in the era of tech startups with 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:02.040 Unicorn and valuations, we're all kind of hoping that we 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:04.880 have that next billion dollar idea, right. But I feel 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.880 like in today's society, if anything, people feel like they're 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:12.360 even farther away from that goal of becoming rich than 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.320 I don't know, maybe people fifty years ago. I feel 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.360 like that sense of the American dream really went down 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:22.080 the toilet in two thousand eight. Yeah, I get that 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:25.720 sense too. But what what? What's interesting, only only ever 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.280 having done this beat post two thousand and eight, is 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.280 that um hunger for these these stories hasn't gone away 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:36.200 for one reason or another. UM either because it feels 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.159 so far away and so foreign, almost like it's a 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:41.920 fairy tale. Maybe that's the case, or maybe there's something 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.600 aspirational in it, but readers keep on keep on company 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.200 these stories and droves. Well, here's hoping that we all 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:52.960 have the luck to be millionaires and billionaires one day. 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.480 Or Caleb, if you're the one who makes it, that 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:59.359 you share some with me. I have preferably in chili potel. 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.600 I have some ideas right now. If Mark Andreason is listening, 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:10.760 I'd love to pitch him. Thanks again for listening to 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.400 Bloomberg Benchmark will be back again next week. Until then, 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:16.720 you can find us on the Bloomberg terminal and on 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:20.040 Bloomberg dot com, as well as on iTunes, pocket cast, 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:24.000 did your Google Play and all those great platforms. And 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.119 while you're there, please take a minute to rate and 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.480 review the show so more listeners can find us and 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:31.119 let us know what you thought of the show. You 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.680 can talk to and follow us on Twitter at at 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:38.639 Tori Stillwell at A seven and for our very special guest, 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:49.640 Caleb at Caleb Melby. See you next week. This episode 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:51.760 was brought to you by nat X. You know, any 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:53.840 long term investment is going to go through short term 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:57.119 dips and price fluctuations. Nat X binary options that you 0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:00.959 turn those short term movements into trading opportunities. You decide 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:03.800 your maximum profit and loss before each trade, so your 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:07.439 risk is always limited. 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