Speaker 1: Welcome to Trillions. I'm Joel Webber, I'm Eric Belchionis. This
Speaker 1: episode is going to be a fun one. We're big
Speaker 1: on metaphors. If you've listen to Trillions at all, you
Speaker 1: know that we bring them into basically every single episode,
Speaker 1: and this episode is no exception. It's going to be
Speaker 1: one big metaphor. Metaphors are good as an analyst, especially
Speaker 1: dealing with all kinds of investors. Metaphors helped to make
Speaker 1: something complicated and boring in some cases much more interesting
Speaker 1: and simple. And so we've used many metaphors, the food store,
Speaker 1: the car. This one's a little closer to home for
Speaker 1: me personally, and it's so good that we had to
Speaker 1: consult our legal department first and we got their blessing.
Speaker 1: And if that doesn't wet your appetite, this will, which
Speaker 1: is this episode is going to be all about Radiohead
Speaker 1: and the ETF. So why Radiohead. There's a couple band
Speaker 1: that I hear and sometimes get ideas from for some reason,
Speaker 1: both Billy Joel and Radiohead. Their their song titles speak
Speaker 1: to good financial advice, but Radiohead even more. And you know,
Speaker 1: you look at back in the day when people found
Speaker 1: hidden messages and led Zeppelin in the Beatles. I think
Speaker 1: it was more like satanic messages. I swear to you
Speaker 1: I find hidden financial advice messages in Radiohead lyrics. It
Speaker 1: is I probably just listened to too much Radiohead and
Speaker 1: I'm just like, it's too much. Do you think about
Speaker 1: two things basically Radiohead and ETF so, but when it
Speaker 1: start troubling it out, there's something there. Well, joining us
Speaker 1: this episode will also be Rachel Evans, reporter with Bloomberg
Speaker 1: News who covers et F s and Rachel is a
Speaker 1: bit of an ETF head and Radiohead as well. So
Speaker 1: this one's gonna get. We're gonna get. This is gonna
Speaker 1: just be awesome. This could be too much, It could
Speaker 1: be too much, but bug of your seat belts. This
Speaker 1: episode Radiohead teaches you how to be a good et
Speaker 1: F investor. Hi, Rachel, Hey Joel, how's again? Good? Thanks
Speaker 1: for coming on the shol delighted. So we know that
Speaker 1: aracle of the radiohead and we're going to get there,
Speaker 1: but I want to hear from you. What was your
Speaker 1: first Radiohead experience? So Radiohead for me began in my
Speaker 1: teen years growing up just outside Oxford, which is obviously
Speaker 1: where Radiohead is from, so you're like literally, you're like
Speaker 1: from there on the doorstep, on the doorstep. So my
Speaker 1: first experience with Radiohead live was going to see them
Speaker 1: when I was fifteen years old. They did a homecoming
Speaker 1: gig in south Park, just outside Oxford, UM, and they
Speaker 1: had bands all afternoon and Radiohead was that the headliner.
Speaker 1: At the end of the night. Was one of the
Speaker 1: most amazing experiences of my life. It started to rain
Speaker 1: as they sort of started playing their final set. Everybody
Speaker 1: was kind of dancing around in the mud. It was fantastic,
Speaker 1: and their last song of the night was Creep, which
Speaker 1: they said they'd never play again. It was incredible. And
Speaker 1: then your dad picked you up into exactly that. My
Speaker 1: dad came pick me up, picked me up with my
Speaker 1: my three other friends who were all a bit underage,
Speaker 1: drinking around then busted, busted, just drinking. Eric, your first
Speaker 1: Radiohead experience mine, and this is gonna age me. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna say how old I was. Well, I guess
Speaker 1: I'm it was in college. We're going to find out,
Speaker 1: you get it, figure it out. But I was in
Speaker 1: college and Radiohead played at the Rutgrouds when it went
Speaker 1: to Rutgers. They played at the Student Center. This is
Speaker 1: off of their first album, Pablo Honey, and they opened
Speaker 1: for Belly. I don't know if you remember Belly. They
Speaker 1: were pretty good band, but they're you know, long forgotten,
Speaker 1: but they opened that that show, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I went for both really But then I saw them
Speaker 1: again on the Bench tour in San Francisco when I
Speaker 1: went out there on a bit of an excursion in life,
Speaker 1: and I saw them in a really small bar about
Speaker 1: three four inndred people and that was the Bens And
Speaker 1: that that's when I got really hooked in. And I
Speaker 1: saw him a couple of times since then on different tours,
Speaker 1: and I saw them around the time Rachel saw them.
Speaker 1: That was the sort of post okay computer just pre
Speaker 1: kid A. That was their project. That was the best
Speaker 1: Radiohead I think. And so for both of you, what
Speaker 1: makes Radiohead so special to me? It was the fact
Speaker 1: that they kind of spoke to my inner ANX at
Speaker 1: a time. You know, when you're you're struggling with all
Speaker 1: these feelings and you can't really express them because you
Speaker 1: know you don't have the emotional language to do so
Speaker 1: a Radiohead kind of came in there at that point,
Speaker 1: and they had this kind of viscerality with their lyrics.
Speaker 1: They were able to sort of describe feeling sort of
Speaker 1: blue and this world that you didn't really understand, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of like almost post apocalyptic imagery at times.
Speaker 1: Yet at the same time I found them very uplifting.
Speaker 1: There was something so cathartic about actually sticking on the
Speaker 1: bends or ok computer even kid a turning it up,
Speaker 1: you know, whether you're in your car or in your
Speaker 1: in your bedroom, and then sort of listening to this
Speaker 1: music kind of take you to a place where actually
Speaker 1: things were better. Yeah, it actually speaks to me because
Speaker 1: I first listen to Radiohead in nineteen seven. I guess
Speaker 1: somebody passed me headphones, which is a saying something. They
Speaker 1: were like literally over your ear headphones in a study
Speaker 1: hall and played the bins and big plastic cres came on,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I've never heard anything like this before,
Speaker 1: and it just really took me away. Also, they slip
Speaker 1: in weird chords. His falsetto voice, which I think he
Speaker 1: got from Jeff Buckley, but to apply that to the
Speaker 1: sort of uh sound of the times with some a
Speaker 1: lot of minor chords I just worked well, and I
Speaker 1: agree it's it makes you feel a little less alone
Speaker 1: in the world, but at the same time it's uplifting,
Speaker 1: and it's also very artistic. The the stuff he describes
Speaker 1: and the way it's the sound you get it's like
Speaker 1: a movie in your head. It's very very visual, and
Speaker 1: I just all aspects of it are great. So let's
Speaker 1: bring it back to the E. T. F. Rachel. When
Speaker 1: we came to you and said we're going to do
Speaker 1: this episode and kind of told you about the idea
Speaker 1: of the hidden financial meetings within the lyrics, had you
Speaker 1: ever thought about that before? I wouldn't say that I
Speaker 1: had necessarily so, so for me, the thing with radio
Speaker 1: Head that that has always been an interest is the
Speaker 1: very anti capitalist in nature. Like when you've listened to
Speaker 1: their lyrics and when you think about kind of your
Speaker 1: the imagery that they use along with their albums, a
Speaker 1: lot of it is quite anti business. It's questioning the
Speaker 1: power that corporations have over us. It's looking at impact
Speaker 1: on climate chain your average investor, right, well, yeah, so
Speaker 1: so I was like, oh, interesting, But then like I
Speaker 1: started listening to the lyrics and that's what kind of
Speaker 1: really got me because actually, one of the great things
Speaker 1: about Radiohead that I've always loved about them is that
Speaker 1: whilst their imagery is very dense and you can interpret it,
Speaker 1: it in many different ways. And one of those ways
Speaker 1: is indeed to think about it from the perspective of
Speaker 1: advice for investing. And I think this speaks to why
Speaker 1: it works is because they you know, they went to
Speaker 1: art school in Oxford. They were going to be painters,
Speaker 1: but they were like, we can't make a living there,
Speaker 1: so we'll get together and do music. And so their
Speaker 1: stuff is abstract and just like looking at a painting
Speaker 1: that is not crystal clear what it is, people can
Speaker 1: draw different things, and I think that speaks to not
Speaker 1: that they're writing about investing, but that you could interpret
Speaker 1: many things from their lyrics. Hey droll here, Now that
Speaker 1: I'm the editor of Bloomberg Business Week, I pulled a
Speaker 1: few strings for our loyal podcast listeners. Go to business
Speaker 1: Week mag dot com slash trillions right now for a
Speaker 1: thirty day free trial. If you like what we're doing
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Speaker 1: more time. Go to business Week mag dot com slash
Speaker 1: trillions for your free thirty day trial. Thanks. Okay, so
Speaker 1: let's just go straight into it because we get to
Speaker 1: listen to some Radiohead Okay, Rachel, what song are we
Speaker 1: gonna listen to? First? We've got anyone can play guitar
Speaker 1: from Radioheads, Pablo Honey. Okay, so why did you pick
Speaker 1: that song? So, I mean, this song really shows you
Speaker 1: kind of like anyone can play guitar. You can pick
Speaker 1: up you know, your acts, and off you go. You're
Speaker 1: off to the races. You can be in a band. Right,
Speaker 1: That's what Radiohead was kind of saying with us. But
Speaker 1: the same really applies for for ETFs. You can, you know,
Speaker 1: go on your your brokerage account, you can go to
Speaker 1: your advisor. Anyone can buy an ECF. They are very
Speaker 1: very accessible products there at fees that anybody can really
Speaker 1: afford um and you can kind of trade in and
Speaker 1: out of them when you want to. Anyone can do it,
Speaker 1: and there are several combinations. Just like chords, there's different
Speaker 1: ways to do it. And it's like you said, the
Speaker 1: guitar is interesting. It is a really accessible tool for
Speaker 1: that has really allowed a lot of people who wouldn't
Speaker 1: otherwise be in music to do music. The thing that
Speaker 1: I understands out to me is that it's really not
Speaker 1: that complicated, right, and that's sort of like the simplicity
Speaker 1: of this is sort of ultimately an interesting place to
Speaker 1: start with. Okay, so so what's next? So next up,
Speaker 1: we have everything in its right place from the semin
Speaker 1: allowed kidd ap, I can actually see Tom York singing
Speaker 1: into a microphone right there. How about the leap from
Speaker 1: anyone who can play guitar to that. Yeah, that's it's
Speaker 1: only ten years a right, A little bit jarring perhaps,
Speaker 1: but it's like and so, Eric, what do you like
Speaker 1: about that song? Well, first of all, the sound is
Speaker 1: just you know, you're just it stops you. But the
Speaker 1: reason I thought this was a good one to pick
Speaker 1: was this is ascid allocation in a nutshell, and that
Speaker 1: also is part of the accessibility. You know, you have stocks,
Speaker 1: you have bonds, it's not that difficult and it's like
Speaker 1: a pie, right, So what percentages do you want of
Speaker 1: each as a class? You plug in the E T
Speaker 1: F and that's ultimately everything in its right place. So
Speaker 1: I think it speaks to acid allocation, and they've done
Speaker 1: studies that your decision on what percentages to put in
Speaker 1: those asset classes, it has much more determinant on your
Speaker 1: returns than the securities you select within the class. So
Speaker 1: it's huge, right, Good advice from Tom York. Excellent advice
Speaker 1: from Tom York. Next one up, we've got air bag
Speaker 1: from Okay computer. What are the lyrics that are that
Speaker 1: resonate with you? So, so Tom talks about Tom York
Speaker 1: obviously to his friend's Rady heads Ley singer Tom Tommy boy, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Tommy why as we call him in my household. So
Speaker 1: he talked about how last night and air bag saved
Speaker 1: my life. And he's talking about this jack knife juggernaut
Speaker 1: to where which you know, assumably some kind of vehicle
Speaker 1: who's which is sort of turned over on the road,
Speaker 1: and how he's kind of born again and saved where
Speaker 1: his air back. Now this applies to e t S
Speaker 1: because to Eric's point about asset allocation, you need to
Speaker 1: be thinking about your portfolio in terms of risk and reward. Right,
Speaker 1: you don't want to be all in in risky e
Speaker 1: t f s. You want to have some kind of
Speaker 1: air bag there that's a protective element. So that might
Speaker 1: be looking at kind of a treasury z t F
Speaker 1: for example, a way to kind of like put your
Speaker 1: money to work while still having something that's that's pretty safe.
Speaker 1: The other thing I like about this is that we're
Speaker 1: jumping around in time right, Like we're covering so many
Speaker 1: different albums here. Yeah, we're not going in chronic That's
Speaker 1: that's what makes it cool. This is not chronological order.
Speaker 1: It's financial advice order. It's been like high fideality, right,
Speaker 1: you see the financial were arranging his CDs by like
Speaker 1: order of his life. So this grouping though was loosely
Speaker 1: this is not that complicated, right, pretty much what's our
Speaker 1: next group? And going to be good behavior? So good behavior?
Speaker 1: Why is that relevant topic in this conversation? That was
Speaker 1: half of our episode with betterment behavior? If you behave badly,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter that you save all this money on
Speaker 1: lower costs or you get less capital gains. You can
Speaker 1: really destroy a lot of gains if you make bad
Speaker 1: decisions and market time and so behavior is really a
Speaker 1: huge deal, which is nique aspect of the E t
Speaker 1: F because there's part of it that also sort of
Speaker 1: can encourage bad behavior because it's so easy to use
Speaker 1: exactly this is more applicable to ets than any other
Speaker 1: type of structure because they are so convenient you can
Speaker 1: get in and out whenever you want. So behavior is
Speaker 1: even more important with E t S. Okay, So, first
Speaker 1: song in our good behavior section optimistic from kid As
Speaker 1: did you pick this one or didn't Rachel pick this one?
Speaker 1: I did because I'm on Twitter a lot. And there's
Speaker 1: these people called perma bears, and they get a lot
Speaker 1: of airtime on television because calling the next sort of crisis. Remember,
Speaker 1: Michael has made all the people who called the financial
Speaker 1: crisis into like superheroes. So everybody's trying to call the
Speaker 1: next downturn. And ultimately, if you listen to them, especially
Speaker 1: in the last eight years, you would have definitely done
Speaker 1: worse than just doing nothing. And so optimism is huge,
Speaker 1: and I find that the best investors are the most optimistic,
Speaker 1: the ones who stick to their plan, believe in it,
Speaker 1: and get rid of the noise. Next up next, Little
Speaker 1: by a Little from the King of Limb. It's one
Speaker 1: of them more recent albums, What did So This is
Speaker 1: kind of a parable in like how to think about
Speaker 1: your E T F returns? Now you don't want to
Speaker 1: think about you know, sort of getting necessarily in a
Speaker 1: year in terms of your returns. You need to be
Speaker 1: thinking about this slowly compounding um amounts of money kind
Speaker 1: of coming into your ETFs, gradually going up and gradually
Speaker 1: returning you the big but whatever the index gives you, right,
Speaker 1: that's what That's what ETF does. Well, that's what traditional
Speaker 1: passive index tracking ETF does. So you don't want to
Speaker 1: be thinking about like that. This is not about, you know,
Speaker 1: getting rich quick. This is about investing for the long
Speaker 1: term and little by little that should pay off, basically
Speaker 1: the opposite of bitcoin investors, right, Okay, uh what I
Speaker 1: What I also liked about that one was like, that's
Speaker 1: the most recent Radiohead song I think on our list, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this was from King of Limbs, which was I wouldn't
Speaker 1: put this in there like top Echelon. I put them
Speaker 1: in the middle level in terms of how good they were,
Speaker 1: But there's some gems on their lotus. Flower in particular
Speaker 1: is as good as anything they've done. Which also leaves
Speaker 1: me a question that I haven't asked either of you yet.
Speaker 1: How many times do you think you've seen radio Head live?
Speaker 1: Probably eight over or under under. Sadly, I'm at three. Though,
Speaker 1: I do have with me today my T shirt from
Speaker 1: my first ever gig, which I'm going to actually, and
Speaker 1: I'm a bit hot already. This is great. I love
Speaker 1: I love, Actually I have the same. I'm like, whatever, Yes,
Speaker 1: this is this is It's play on that monkey one
Speaker 1: where the the where they have the no eyes, no mouth, right,
Speaker 1: except it's like modern day gen X. You don't have
Speaker 1: to cover your mouth. I got it. You have to
Speaker 1: stalk talking to the microphone. Well, I know I had
Speaker 1: to explain things to you, so I was given the
Speaker 1: visuals to help help it go fastest. So how many
Speaker 1: concert t shirts do you still have? I probably have.
Speaker 1: I probably have two. Over the years, I probably bought four.
Speaker 1: But I have a framed poster in my office area
Speaker 1: that I really kept. But a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of the stuff I bought is kind of come and go.
Speaker 1: You've liked pretty ahead for such a long time. I
Speaker 1: have to ask, do you still have a cassette? No?
Speaker 1: But I have CDs. Yeah, I have a couple of CDs.
Speaker 1: And I thought, yeah, I have some cassettes. Used to
Speaker 1: make mix tapes for the car, and then inflicted on
Speaker 1: my family so that we would all get in there
Speaker 1: and you know, i'd have like a little remix from
Speaker 1: the Bend. How did you How did your parents feel
Speaker 1: about your radiohead? So, my dad's pretty cool. My dad
Speaker 1: was all right. He was obviously came picked me up
Speaker 1: from the concert, so he was. He was with it.
Speaker 1: My mom not such a big fan. My brother, yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't into it. I think he was more kind
Speaker 1: of getting into sort of the pop things at the time.
Speaker 1: Those those cassette mixes were not so highly prized on
Speaker 1: on those family road trips and prized by me but
Speaker 1: no one else. Okay, last song in the good behavior section,
Speaker 1: We've got I might be wrong from Amnesiac? What album
Speaker 1: was that? From Amnesiac? So they recorded two albums at
Speaker 1: the same time back in two thousand, two thousand one
Speaker 1: kind of a first part became kid a second with Amnesiac.
Speaker 1: I still remember going down to the shops the day
Speaker 1: that Amnesiac was released, got a left from school with
Speaker 1: my friend's mom. Brilliant. If you were in the US,
Speaker 1: I would have seen you with the record. Amnesiac was
Speaker 1: my Bloomberg terminal password for the first five years I
Speaker 1: was here. Ye amazing. Yeah, that was an amasiac one
Speaker 1: amn easiac too. Then I started using my kid's names
Speaker 1: because that's like there's numbers. Now they make you do
Speaker 1: capitals and yeah, I will tell you those Amasa. I
Speaker 1: like that. Um okay, and why do we pick? I
Speaker 1: might be wrong? So this one I think speaks to
Speaker 1: behavior because if you have your plain vanilla core and
Speaker 1: we talked about just hanging in there a little by
Speaker 1: a little, but let's face it, people like to speculate.
Speaker 1: That's okay. You know, it's okay to take some money
Speaker 1: and put that on something you think might go up.
Speaker 1: So take something like Russia small caps or Palladium, you know,
Speaker 1: something that's a little out there high flyer. Sometimes these
Speaker 1: do not work out you think they should work. Uranium
Speaker 1: is a good example that one has a great story,
Speaker 1: but it always goes down. It just goes down and
Speaker 1: down and down. You can cut your losses, okay, it's
Speaker 1: okay to met you're wrong because a lot of people
Speaker 1: lose extra money by thinking that it's going to turn
Speaker 1: around and and it never does. And one uh metric
Speaker 1: people use a lot for this is the two hundred
Speaker 1: moving day average. So if the price of the e
Speaker 1: t F falls below it's two moving day average. That's
Speaker 1: known as the death cross, and a lot of times
Speaker 1: people will look at that as the time to get out,
Speaker 1: like it's just gonna get worse from there. So it's okay,
Speaker 1: you don't need to like marry every idea you have
Speaker 1: for like a good trade. The death cross almost sounds
Speaker 1: like a Radiohead song. They're probably working out something with
Speaker 1: that right now or an album. Okay, So that grouping
Speaker 1: was good behavior. The opposite of good behavior is bad behavior.
Speaker 1: And we also have some songs that we picked for that,
Speaker 1: the first one being Just from the Bad, one of
Speaker 1: my favorite songs. They're teaching some personal responsibility here they are. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the song itself a sort of deals with a
Speaker 1: rather unfortunate relationship going bad. But in terms of personal
Speaker 1: investing advice, I think that's some really interesting takeaways, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at the financial crisis, one
Speaker 1: of the things that the people lamented after everything soured was, oh,
Speaker 1: I didn't know. Now, there is a lot of responsibility
Speaker 1: that advisers and sellers of products have to make sure
Speaker 1: that you have the information. You should be able. You
Speaker 1: shouldn't being missouled something, you should know what it is.
Speaker 1: But when it comes to e t F, there's so
Speaker 1: much information in the public domain, you as an investor
Speaker 1: have to take responsibility for what you own and to
Speaker 1: go and read the prospectives of what you're buying. To
Speaker 1: take one example, you could look at kind of emerging
Speaker 1: market equity e t F for example, Um, some of
Speaker 1: these are hedged, some of them aren't. You need to
Speaker 1: know that some of them hedge all of the currencies
Speaker 1: within them. Some of them hedge some of the currencies
Speaker 1: and optimize that hedge. Now, unless you actually read the
Speaker 1: small print, you don't know that. And if you don't
Speaker 1: know that, you could get burnt when something bad happens
Speaker 1: in the markets. I'd riff off of this with our
Speaker 1: next one, which is which is fake Plastic Tree, the
Speaker 1: same concept here, which is the same album, same album. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the vents and look, there's a lot of things that
Speaker 1: look pretty good. I mean that either the name is
Speaker 1: very nice to kind of the cereal awl, the cartoon
Speaker 1: character on front. But there's a lot of things that
Speaker 1: you don't need. There's a lot of noise out there,
Speaker 1: and I think that sort of speaks to that. The
Speaker 1: green plastical, the affection is fake Blood, good from God.
Speaker 1: That's soothing. Eric, put your later Away, Rachel, what do
Speaker 1: you like about that song? I mean that song to
Speaker 1: me has always been one of the finest radio Head songs.
Speaker 1: I think lyrically it's fantastic. It's musically beautiful and haunting.
Speaker 1: Um and yeah, it builds to a really kind of
Speaker 1: great finale where you can kind of like pretty much
Speaker 1: scream it loud and yeah, it's it's great. Does the business, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that one was just top of my list. Although The
Speaker 1: Bins is funny, it's all about bad behavior and yet
Speaker 1: it's it's like the best album ads. Eric will probably
Speaker 1: back me up on. I think, you know, they wrote
Speaker 1: it when they were twenty seven. Let's face it, we
Speaker 1: were all doing bad things at age seven, and you're
Speaker 1: kind of fighting yourself at that age, and so I
Speaker 1: think they they kind of settled down, had kids in
Speaker 1: their music became more about judge, you're looking at the
Speaker 1: outside world. But The Bends I think was very much
Speaker 1: about stuff going on in like their life and trying
Speaker 1: to get your act together. Yeah, I agree, Like the
Speaker 1: first couple of albums are kind of very personal. They
Speaker 1: feel like they're they're dealing with their own personal demons,
Speaker 1: and then as they kind of move out, they start
Speaker 1: looking at consumerism, commercialism, all that kind of stuff, and
Speaker 1: thinking about climate change and like next track, next track.
Speaker 1: Also sticking with the bends, we have high and dry.
Speaker 1: So okay, lyrics in there. Two jumps in a week.
Speaker 1: I bet you think that's pretty clever, don't you, boy
Speaker 1: So to me, obviously, thinking with an investor hat on,
Speaker 1: this is about the perils of trading too frequency frequently.
Speaker 1: So basically what you want to be thinking about when
Speaker 1: you're trading is not really trading, Like you only want
Speaker 1: to be moving in and out of an ETF if
Speaker 1: you're changing strategy, if there's a really profound reason for moving.
Speaker 1: If you're jumping in and out twice in a week,
Speaker 1: like the song talks about, then all you're doing is
Speaker 1: racking up costs. It costs money to trade, um, so
Speaker 1: you don't want to be doing that too frequently. And
Speaker 1: I think trading isn't the worst thing in the world,
Speaker 1: but say that for the institutions and the professionals. But
Speaker 1: even then there's been some evidence that it's it's tough
Speaker 1: for them because the more costs again, you know, the
Speaker 1: more you trade. It's sort of like the you know,
Speaker 1: the casino. If you go and the more you gamble,
Speaker 1: the more likely the house will win. So I think
Speaker 1: that's definitely speaks to that as well. I'll throw one
Speaker 1: other quickie in here on this whole behavior is where
Speaker 1: I end, then you begin, which is kind of a
Speaker 1: creepy song. It's it's good though. I think it's about
Speaker 1: his father, but I don't know. I can't confirm that
Speaker 1: to abstract, but I think it is. There's some products
Speaker 1: out there that retail vestlers probably should just have like
Speaker 1: a hard stop, don't touch, and I would put VIX
Speaker 1: products in there. I'd put anything that holds futures, oil futures,
Speaker 1: anything that uses derivatives and leverage ETFs. And I think
Speaker 1: that's good, just to have a hard rule on that.
Speaker 1: They're like power tools. You love your effects. Why why
Speaker 1: wouldn't they You should have been a police academy. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: i'd agree with that. I mean, like when you think
Speaker 1: about leveraged e t f s, I mean, these are
Speaker 1: very much intended for traders, right, They're not intended for
Speaker 1: for retail. And sure, I mean you can be well
Speaker 1: educated about how they work, but you've really got to
Speaker 1: sort of understand, and I think for the vast majority
Speaker 1: of people that that own them, they don't and they
Speaker 1: get hammered by the roll costs. The same could be
Speaker 1: said for some of these kind of more sort of
Speaker 1: faddish thematic e t f s. Not to name names
Speaker 1: or anything, per se, but I think there's a few
Speaker 1: out there that perhaps are trying to to jump on
Speaker 1: the bandwagon of something that's been been in the news
Speaker 1: or seems to be popular, um, and that perhaps there's
Speaker 1: not really a compelling investing argument to be in them. Okay,
Speaker 1: so let's listen to that. Okay, So this is a
Speaker 1: pretty epic back of T shirt set list that we've
Speaker 1: just kind of rolled through. They put the cities on
Speaker 1: the back, not the songs, but I'm putting the songs
Speaker 1: on this one. This is your shirt, Yeah, my shirt,
Speaker 1: my rules. What is somebody going to get out of
Speaker 1: all of this advice about how to use et f
Speaker 1: s more effectively? It comes back to the whole thing
Speaker 1: we talked about about writing Capitalism's cotails. Why are you
Speaker 1: doing this? Why are we here? I'm still pondering it
Speaker 1: ever since you asked it the first time. Don't go
Speaker 1: that deep with that. Let's go second level. Second, the
Speaker 1: reason is because you want to retire, you want to
Speaker 1: send your kids to college, just basic stuff, right, So
Speaker 1: all of this is so you can do that and
Speaker 1: if you get you know, a little wealthy along the way,
Speaker 1: that's that's a bonus. Rachel. There's a song that I
Speaker 1: know you want to include to kind of help about
Speaker 1: sign off on this idea, which one is that how
Speaker 1: I made my millions? There you go there, Okay, so
Speaker 1: how I made my millions? Okay, now, Joel, you're crying
Speaker 1: balling over here? Why do I Why do I listen
Speaker 1: to that? No, I'm joking, it's really it's beautiful. But
Speaker 1: we're not done because you can't end on that note. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a little even from my radio head standards, that's
Speaker 1: a little so chin up here, because two plus two
Speaker 1: equals five should as shuch a dream to putter? Ah?
Speaker 1: So what ah, it's makes a fun Two plus two
Speaker 1: equals five gets to the power of compounding interests. There
Speaker 1: you go, I mean it is you know that there's
Speaker 1: always that people that people talking about if you bought
Speaker 1: such and such at you know, ten and dollars, it
Speaker 1: really is true if you can just get in and
Speaker 1: just hang in there. I mean that stuff compounds and
Speaker 1: just get an just get a get a get a
Speaker 1: hook in there, just do something. That's why UM and
Speaker 1: this song it's it's interesting. This is a Orwellian phrase
Speaker 1: from the book and it was really about brainwashing, and
Speaker 1: we're turning it into a positive about compounding interest with
Speaker 1: E T S. So that's a bit of a stretch,
Speaker 1: but I think it works. It's power of radiohead. You
Speaker 1: can apply it to betterything. Okay. Closing question, Rachel, you
Speaker 1: probably know this by now. We like to ask people
Speaker 1: what their favorite E T F taker is. However, I'm
Speaker 1: going to change the rules slightly and ask you a hypothetical,
Speaker 1: what do you think tom Yorke's favorite EF. So I
Speaker 1: had a good long think about this UM and the
Speaker 1: conclusion that I came up with for for what Tom's
Speaker 1: favorite at F was given that this is Tommy why
Speaker 1: a good friend? Given that this is twenty years since
Speaker 1: okay computer came out, I thought he m quite like robo.
Speaker 1: Yeah there you go, and everybody paranoid android that is robotics. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, that's a good one. That's more creative than
Speaker 1: mind minds, probably a little too. What do you think
Speaker 1: Tom's would be? I would go with the Climate Leadership
Speaker 1: et F though, which is all about Yeah, but that
Speaker 1: that's Tom. You're in a nutshell climate change and like
Speaker 1: computer robots. Rachel Evans, Bloomberg News, Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: thank you. Okay, So we reached out to the radiohead
Speaker 1: because we just we had just done this episode and
Speaker 1: we were just like, we have to hear what they
Speaker 1: have to say about this. So it was like almost
Speaker 1: Eric's dream. He got to email the band and here's
Speaker 1: what they had to say. I did, but you're not
Speaker 1: giving me credit for finding the email of the manager.
Speaker 1: I had to go to some serious chat rooms in
Speaker 1: blogs that only fans like me would know. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I got it. So I emailed the band's manager, Chris Hufford.
Speaker 1: He here's what he says back to me. Thanks for
Speaker 1: the l Eric, but I'm afraid none of the band
Speaker 1: are available best Chris, so at least it got back
Speaker 1: to me and respect, respect, proser rating. Thanks thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to trillions Until next time. You can find us
Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg terminal Bloomberg dot com. Apple podcasts, and
Speaker 1: probably a bunch of other places I haven't heard of yet.
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. We're on Twitter, I'm
Speaker 1: at Joel Webber Show, He's at Eric call Tunis, and
Speaker 1: our guest Rachel Evans is that Rachel Evans Underscore and
Speaker 1: Why Trillions is produced by Jordan Bell with help from
Speaker 1: Magnus Henrickson. Francesca Levie is the head of Bloomberg Podcast.
Speaker 1: Bye