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Speaker 1: Welcome to Trillions. I'm Joel Webber, I'm Eric Belchionis. This

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Speaker 1: episode is going to be a fun one. We're big

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Speaker 1: on metaphors. If you've listen to Trillions at all, you

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Speaker 1: know that we bring them into basically every single episode,

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Speaker 1: and this episode is no exception. It's going to be

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Speaker 1: one big metaphor. Metaphors are good as an analyst, especially

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Speaker 1: dealing with all kinds of investors. Metaphors helped to make

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Speaker 1: something complicated and boring in some cases much more interesting

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Speaker 1: and simple. And so we've used many metaphors, the food store,

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Speaker 1: the car. This one's a little closer to home for

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Speaker 1: me personally, and it's so good that we had to

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Speaker 1: consult our legal department first and we got their blessing.

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Speaker 1: And if that doesn't wet your appetite, this will, which

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Speaker 1: is this episode is going to be all about Radiohead

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Speaker 1: and the ETF. So why Radiohead. There's a couple band

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Speaker 1: that I hear and sometimes get ideas from for some reason,

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Speaker 1: both Billy Joel and Radiohead. Their their song titles speak

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Speaker 1: to good financial advice, but Radiohead even more. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you look at back in the day when people found

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Speaker 1: hidden messages and led Zeppelin in the Beatles. I think

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Speaker 1: it was more like satanic messages. I swear to you

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Speaker 1: I find hidden financial advice messages in Radiohead lyrics. It

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Speaker 1: is I probably just listened to too much Radiohead and

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, it's too much. Do you think about

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Speaker 1: two things basically Radiohead and ETF so, but when it

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Speaker 1: start troubling it out, there's something there. Well, joining us

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Speaker 1: this episode will also be Rachel Evans, reporter with Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: News who covers et F s and Rachel is a

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Speaker 1: bit of an ETF head and Radiohead as well. So

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Speaker 1: this one's gonna get. We're gonna get. This is gonna

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Speaker 1: just be awesome. This could be too much, It could

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Speaker 1: be too much, but bug of your seat belts. This

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Speaker 1: episode Radiohead teaches you how to be a good et

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Speaker 1: F investor. Hi, Rachel, Hey Joel, how's again? Good? Thanks

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Speaker 1: for coming on the shol delighted. So we know that

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Speaker 1: aracle of the radiohead and we're going to get there,

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Speaker 1: but I want to hear from you. What was your

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Speaker 1: first Radiohead experience? So Radiohead for me began in my

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Speaker 1: teen years growing up just outside Oxford, which is obviously

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Speaker 1: where Radiohead is from, so you're like literally, you're like

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Speaker 1: from there on the doorstep, on the doorstep. So my

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Speaker 1: first experience with Radiohead live was going to see them

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Speaker 1: when I was fifteen years old. They did a homecoming

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Speaker 1: gig in south Park, just outside Oxford, UM, and they

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Speaker 1: had bands all afternoon and Radiohead was that the headliner.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the night. Was one of the

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Speaker 1: most amazing experiences of my life. It started to rain

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Speaker 1: as they sort of started playing their final set. Everybody

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Speaker 1: was kind of dancing around in the mud. It was fantastic,

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Speaker 1: and their last song of the night was Creep, which

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Speaker 1: they said they'd never play again. It was incredible. And

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Speaker 1: then your dad picked you up into exactly that. My

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Speaker 1: dad came pick me up, picked me up with my

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Speaker 1: my three other friends who were all a bit underage,

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Speaker 1: drinking around then busted, busted, just drinking. Eric, your first

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Speaker 1: Radiohead experience mine, and this is gonna age me. I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna say how old I was. Well, I guess

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Speaker 1: I'm it was in college. We're going to find out,

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Speaker 1: you get it, figure it out. But I was in

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Speaker 1: college and Radiohead played at the Rutgrouds when it went

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Speaker 1: to Rutgers. They played at the Student Center. This is

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Speaker 1: off of their first album, Pablo Honey, and they opened

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Speaker 1: for Belly. I don't know if you remember Belly. They

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Speaker 1: were pretty good band, but they're you know, long forgotten,

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Speaker 1: but they opened that that show, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I went for both really But then I saw them

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Speaker 1: again on the Bench tour in San Francisco when I

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Speaker 1: went out there on a bit of an excursion in life,

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Speaker 1: and I saw them in a really small bar about

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Speaker 1: three four inndred people and that was the Bens And

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Speaker 1: that that's when I got really hooked in. And I

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Speaker 1: saw him a couple of times since then on different tours,

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Speaker 1: and I saw them around the time Rachel saw them.

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Speaker 1: That was the sort of post okay computer just pre

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Speaker 1: kid A. That was their project. That was the best

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Speaker 1: Radiohead I think. And so for both of you, what

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Speaker 1: makes Radiohead so special to me? It was the fact

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Speaker 1: that they kind of spoke to my inner ANX at

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Speaker 1: a time. You know, when you're you're struggling with all

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Speaker 1: these feelings and you can't really express them because you

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Speaker 1: know you don't have the emotional language to do so

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Speaker 1: a Radiohead kind of came in there at that point,

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Speaker 1: and they had this kind of viscerality with their lyrics.

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Speaker 1: They were able to sort of describe feeling sort of

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Speaker 1: blue and this world that you didn't really understand, and

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like almost post apocalyptic imagery at times.

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Speaker 1: Yet at the same time I found them very uplifting.

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Speaker 1: There was something so cathartic about actually sticking on the

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Speaker 1: bends or ok computer even kid a turning it up,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether you're in your car or in your

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Speaker 1: in your bedroom, and then sort of listening to this

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Speaker 1: music kind of take you to a place where actually

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Speaker 1: things were better. Yeah, it actually speaks to me because

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Speaker 1: I first listen to Radiohead in nineteen seven. I guess

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Speaker 1: somebody passed me headphones, which is a saying something. They

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Speaker 1: were like literally over your ear headphones in a study

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Speaker 1: hall and played the bins and big plastic cres came on,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I've never heard anything like this before,

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Speaker 1: and it just really took me away. Also, they slip

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Speaker 1: in weird chords. His falsetto voice, which I think he

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Speaker 1: got from Jeff Buckley, but to apply that to the

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Speaker 1: sort of uh sound of the times with some a

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Speaker 1: lot of minor chords I just worked well, and I

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Speaker 1: agree it's it makes you feel a little less alone

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Speaker 1: in the world, but at the same time it's uplifting,

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Speaker 1: and it's also very artistic. The the stuff he describes

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Speaker 1: and the way it's the sound you get it's like

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Speaker 1: a movie in your head. It's very very visual, and

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Speaker 1: I just all aspects of it are great. So let's

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Speaker 1: bring it back to the E. T. F. Rachel. When

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Speaker 1: we came to you and said we're going to do

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Speaker 1: this episode and kind of told you about the idea

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Speaker 1: of the hidden financial meetings within the lyrics, had you

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Speaker 1: ever thought about that before? I wouldn't say that I

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Speaker 1: had necessarily so, so for me, the thing with radio

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Speaker 1: Head that that has always been an interest is the

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Speaker 1: very anti capitalist in nature. Like when you've listened to

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Speaker 1: their lyrics and when you think about kind of your

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Speaker 1: the imagery that they use along with their albums, a

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Speaker 1: lot of it is quite anti business. It's questioning the

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Speaker 1: power that corporations have over us. It's looking at impact

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Speaker 1: on climate chain your average investor, right, well, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: so I was like, oh, interesting, But then like I

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Speaker 1: started listening to the lyrics and that's what kind of

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Speaker 1: really got me because actually, one of the great things

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Speaker 1: about Radiohead that I've always loved about them is that

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Speaker 1: whilst their imagery is very dense and you can interpret it,

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Speaker 1: it in many different ways. And one of those ways

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Speaker 1: is indeed to think about it from the perspective of

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Speaker 1: advice for investing. And I think this speaks to why

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Speaker 1: it works is because they you know, they went to

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Speaker 1: art school in Oxford. They were going to be painters,

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Speaker 1: but they were like, we can't make a living there,

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Speaker 1: so we'll get together and do music. And so their

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Speaker 1: stuff is abstract and just like looking at a painting

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Speaker 1: that is not crystal clear what it is, people can

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Speaker 1: draw different things, and I think that speaks to not

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Speaker 1: that they're writing about investing, but that you could interpret

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Speaker 1: many things from their lyrics. Hey droll here, Now that

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Speaker 1: I'm the editor of Bloomberg Business Week, I pulled a

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Speaker 1: few strings for our loyal podcast listeners. Go to business

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Speaker 1: Week mag dot com slash trillions right now for a

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Speaker 1: thirty day free trial. If you like what we're doing

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Speaker 1: here on trillions, you're gonna love the stories that we

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Speaker 1: published in Bloomberg Business Week. Here's that special offer one

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Speaker 1: more time. Go to business Week mag dot com slash

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Speaker 1: trillions for your free thirty day trial. Thanks. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: let's just go straight into it because we get to

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Speaker 1: listen to some Radiohead Okay, Rachel, what song are we

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Speaker 1: gonna listen to? First? We've got anyone can play guitar

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Speaker 1: from Radioheads, Pablo Honey. Okay, so why did you pick

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Speaker 1: that song? So, I mean, this song really shows you

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Speaker 1: kind of like anyone can play guitar. You can pick

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Speaker 1: up you know, your acts, and off you go. You're

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Speaker 1: off to the races. You can be in a band. Right,

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Speaker 1: That's what Radiohead was kind of saying with us. But

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Speaker 1: the same really applies for for ETFs. You can, you know,

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Speaker 1: go on your your brokerage account, you can go to

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Speaker 1: your advisor. Anyone can buy an ECF. They are very

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Speaker 1: very accessible products there at fees that anybody can really

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Speaker 1: afford um and you can kind of trade in and

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Speaker 1: out of them when you want to. Anyone can do it,

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Speaker 1: and there are several combinations. Just like chords, there's different

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Speaker 1: ways to do it. And it's like you said, the

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Speaker 1: guitar is interesting. It is a really accessible tool for

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Speaker 1: that has really allowed a lot of people who wouldn't

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Speaker 1: otherwise be in music to do music. The thing that

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Speaker 1: I understands out to me is that it's really not

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Speaker 1: that complicated, right, and that's sort of like the simplicity

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Speaker 1: of this is sort of ultimately an interesting place to

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Speaker 1: start with. Okay, so so what's next? So next up,

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Speaker 1: we have everything in its right place from the semin

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Speaker 1: allowed kidd ap, I can actually see Tom York singing

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Speaker 1: into a microphone right there. How about the leap from

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Speaker 1: anyone who can play guitar to that. Yeah, that's it's

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Speaker 1: only ten years a right, A little bit jarring perhaps,

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Speaker 1: but it's like and so, Eric, what do you like

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Speaker 1: about that song? Well, first of all, the sound is

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Speaker 1: just you know, you're just it stops you. But the

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Speaker 1: reason I thought this was a good one to pick

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Speaker 1: was this is ascid allocation in a nutshell, and that

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Speaker 1: also is part of the accessibility. You know, you have stocks,

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Speaker 1: you have bonds, it's not that difficult and it's like

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Speaker 1: a pie, right, So what percentages do you want of

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Speaker 1: each as a class? You plug in the E T

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Speaker 1: F and that's ultimately everything in its right place. So

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Speaker 1: I think it speaks to acid allocation, and they've done

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Speaker 1: studies that your decision on what percentages to put in

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Speaker 1: those asset classes, it has much more determinant on your

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Speaker 1: returns than the securities you select within the class. So

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Speaker 1: it's huge, right, Good advice from Tom York. Excellent advice

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Speaker 1: from Tom York. Next one up, we've got air bag

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Speaker 1: from Okay computer. What are the lyrics that are that

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Speaker 1: resonate with you? So, so Tom talks about Tom York

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Speaker 1: obviously to his friend's Rady heads Ley singer Tom Tommy boy, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Tommy why as we call him in my household. So

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Speaker 1: he talked about how last night and air bag saved

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Speaker 1: my life. And he's talking about this jack knife juggernaut

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Speaker 1: to where which you know, assumably some kind of vehicle

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Speaker 1: who's which is sort of turned over on the road,

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Speaker 1: and how he's kind of born again and saved where

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Speaker 1: his air back. Now this applies to e t S

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Speaker 1: because to Eric's point about asset allocation, you need to

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Speaker 1: be thinking about your portfolio in terms of risk and reward. Right,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to be all in in risky e

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Speaker 1: t f s. You want to have some kind of

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Speaker 1: air bag there that's a protective element. So that might

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Speaker 1: be looking at kind of a treasury z t F

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Speaker 1: for example, a way to kind of like put your

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Speaker 1: money to work while still having something that's that's pretty safe.

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Speaker 1: The other thing I like about this is that we're

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Speaker 1: jumping around in time right, Like we're covering so many

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Speaker 1: different albums here. Yeah, we're not going in chronic That's

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Speaker 1: that's what makes it cool. This is not chronological order.

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Speaker 1: It's financial advice order. It's been like high fideality, right,

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Speaker 1: you see the financial were arranging his CDs by like

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Speaker 1: order of his life. So this grouping though was loosely

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Speaker 1: this is not that complicated, right, pretty much what's our

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Speaker 1: next group? And going to be good behavior? So good behavior?

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Speaker 1: Why is that relevant topic in this conversation? That was

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Speaker 1: half of our episode with betterment behavior? If you behave badly,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter that you save all this money on

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Speaker 1: lower costs or you get less capital gains. You can

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Speaker 1: really destroy a lot of gains if you make bad

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Speaker 1: decisions and market time and so behavior is really a

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Speaker 1: huge deal, which is nique aspect of the E t

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Speaker 1: F because there's part of it that also sort of

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Speaker 1: can encourage bad behavior because it's so easy to use

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Speaker 1: exactly this is more applicable to ets than any other

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Speaker 1: type of structure because they are so convenient you can

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Speaker 1: get in and out whenever you want. So behavior is

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Speaker 1: even more important with E t S. Okay, So, first

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Speaker 1: song in our good behavior section optimistic from kid As

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Speaker 1: did you pick this one or didn't Rachel pick this one?

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Speaker 1: I did because I'm on Twitter a lot. And there's

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Speaker 1: these people called perma bears, and they get a lot

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Speaker 1: of airtime on television because calling the next sort of crisis. Remember,

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Speaker 1: Michael has made all the people who called the financial

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Speaker 1: crisis into like superheroes. So everybody's trying to call the

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Speaker 1: next downturn. And ultimately, if you listen to them, especially

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Speaker 1: in the last eight years, you would have definitely done

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Speaker 1: worse than just doing nothing. And so optimism is huge,

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Speaker 1: and I find that the best investors are the most optimistic,

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Speaker 1: the ones who stick to their plan, believe in it,

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Speaker 1: and get rid of the noise. Next up next, Little

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Speaker 1: by a Little from the King of Limb. It's one

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Speaker 1: of them more recent albums, What did So This is

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Speaker 1: kind of a parable in like how to think about

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Speaker 1: your E T F returns? Now you don't want to

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Speaker 1: think about you know, sort of getting necessarily in a

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Speaker 1: year in terms of your returns. You need to be

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Speaker 1: thinking about this slowly compounding um amounts of money kind

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Speaker 1: of coming into your ETFs, gradually going up and gradually

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Speaker 1: returning you the big but whatever the index gives you, right,

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Speaker 1: that's what That's what ETF does. Well, that's what traditional

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Speaker 1: passive index tracking ETF does. So you don't want to

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Speaker 1: be thinking about like that. This is not about, you know,

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Speaker 1: getting rich quick. This is about investing for the long

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Speaker 1: term and little by little that should pay off, basically

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Speaker 1: the opposite of bitcoin investors, right, Okay, uh what I

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Speaker 1: What I also liked about that one was like, that's

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Speaker 1: the most recent Radiohead song I think on our list, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this was from King of Limbs, which was I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: put this in there like top Echelon. I put them

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Speaker 1: in the middle level in terms of how good they were,

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Speaker 1: But there's some gems on their lotus. Flower in particular

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Speaker 1: is as good as anything they've done. Which also leaves

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Speaker 1: me a question that I haven't asked either of you yet.

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Speaker 1: How many times do you think you've seen radio Head live?

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Speaker 1: Probably eight over or under under. Sadly, I'm at three. Though,

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Speaker 1: I do have with me today my T shirt from

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Speaker 1: my first ever gig, which I'm going to actually, and

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Speaker 1: I'm a bit hot already. This is great. I love

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Speaker 1: I love, Actually I have the same. I'm like, whatever, Yes,

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Speaker 1: this is this is It's play on that monkey one

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Speaker 1: where the the where they have the no eyes, no mouth, right,

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Speaker 1: except it's like modern day gen X. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to cover your mouth. I got it. You have to

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Speaker 1: stalk talking to the microphone. Well, I know I had

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Speaker 1: to explain things to you, so I was given the

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Speaker 1: visuals to help help it go fastest. So how many

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Speaker 1: concert t shirts do you still have? I probably have.

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Speaker 1: I probably have two. Over the years, I probably bought four.

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Speaker 1: But I have a framed poster in my office area

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Speaker 1: that I really kept. But a lot of a lot

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Speaker 1: of the stuff I bought is kind of come and go.

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Speaker 1: You've liked pretty ahead for such a long time. I

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Speaker 1: have to ask, do you still have a cassette? No?

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Speaker 1: But I have CDs. Yeah, I have a couple of CDs.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, yeah, I have some cassettes. Used to

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Speaker 1: make mix tapes for the car, and then inflicted on

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Speaker 1: my family so that we would all get in there

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Speaker 1: and you know, i'd have like a little remix from

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Speaker 1: the Bend. How did you How did your parents feel

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Speaker 1: about your radiohead? So, my dad's pretty cool. My dad

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Speaker 1: was all right. He was obviously came picked me up

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Speaker 1: from the concert, so he was. He was with it.

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Speaker 1: My mom not such a big fan. My brother, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't into it. I think he was more kind

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Speaker 1: of getting into sort of the pop things at the time.

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Speaker 1: Those those cassette mixes were not so highly prized on

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Speaker 1: on those family road trips and prized by me but

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Speaker 1: no one else. Okay, last song in the good behavior section,

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Speaker 1: We've got I might be wrong from Amnesiac? What album

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Speaker 1: was that? From Amnesiac? So they recorded two albums at

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Speaker 1: the same time back in two thousand, two thousand one

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Speaker 1: kind of a first part became kid a second with Amnesiac.

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Speaker 1: I still remember going down to the shops the day

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Speaker 1: that Amnesiac was released, got a left from school with

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Speaker 1: my friend's mom. Brilliant. If you were in the US,

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Speaker 1: I would have seen you with the record. Amnesiac was

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Speaker 1: my Bloomberg terminal password for the first five years I

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Speaker 1: was here. Ye amazing. Yeah, that was an amasiac one

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Speaker 1: amn easiac too. Then I started using my kid's names

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Speaker 1: because that's like there's numbers. Now they make you do

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Speaker 1: capitals and yeah, I will tell you those Amasa. I

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Speaker 1: like that. Um okay, and why do we pick? I

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Speaker 1: might be wrong? So this one I think speaks to

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Speaker 1: behavior because if you have your plain vanilla core and

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Speaker 1: we talked about just hanging in there a little by

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Speaker 1: a little, but let's face it, people like to speculate.

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Speaker 1: That's okay. You know, it's okay to take some money

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Speaker 1: and put that on something you think might go up.

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Speaker 1: So take something like Russia small caps or Palladium, you know,

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Speaker 1: something that's a little out there high flyer. Sometimes these

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Speaker 1: do not work out you think they should work. Uranium

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Speaker 1: is a good example that one has a great story,

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Speaker 1: but it always goes down. It just goes down and

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Speaker 1: down and down. You can cut your losses, okay, it's

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Speaker 1: okay to met you're wrong because a lot of people

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Speaker 1: lose extra money by thinking that it's going to turn

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Speaker 1: around and and it never does. And one uh metric

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Speaker 1: people use a lot for this is the two hundred

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Speaker 1: moving day average. So if the price of the e

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Speaker 1: t F falls below it's two moving day average. That's

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Speaker 1: known as the death cross, and a lot of times

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Speaker 1: people will look at that as the time to get out,

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Speaker 1: like it's just gonna get worse from there. So it's okay,

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Speaker 1: you don't need to like marry every idea you have

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Speaker 1: for like a good trade. The death cross almost sounds

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Speaker 1: like a Radiohead song. They're probably working out something with

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Speaker 1: that right now or an album. Okay, So that grouping

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Speaker 1: was good behavior. The opposite of good behavior is bad behavior.

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Speaker 1: And we also have some songs that we picked for that,

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Speaker 1: the first one being Just from the Bad, one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite songs. They're teaching some personal responsibility here they are. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so the song itself a sort of deals with a

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Speaker 1: rather unfortunate relationship going bad. But in terms of personal

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Speaker 1: investing advice, I think that's some really interesting takeaways, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at the financial crisis, one

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Speaker 1: of the things that the people lamented after everything soured was, oh,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know. Now, there is a lot of responsibility

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Speaker 1: that advisers and sellers of products have to make sure

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Speaker 1: that you have the information. You should be able. You

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Speaker 1: shouldn't being missouled something, you should know what it is.

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Speaker 1: But when it comes to e t F, there's so

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Speaker 1: much information in the public domain, you as an investor

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Speaker 1: have to take responsibility for what you own and to

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Speaker 1: go and read the prospectives of what you're buying. To

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Speaker 1: take one example, you could look at kind of emerging

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Speaker 1: market equity e t F for example, Um, some of

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Speaker 1: these are hedged, some of them aren't. You need to

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Speaker 1: know that some of them hedge all of the currencies

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Speaker 1: within them. Some of them hedge some of the currencies

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Speaker 1: and optimize that hedge. Now, unless you actually read the

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Speaker 1: small print, you don't know that. And if you don't

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Speaker 1: know that, you could get burnt when something bad happens

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Speaker 1: in the markets. I'd riff off of this with our

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Speaker 1: next one, which is which is fake Plastic Tree, the

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Speaker 1: same concept here, which is the same album, same album. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the vents and look, there's a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: look pretty good. I mean that either the name is

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Speaker 1: very nice to kind of the cereal awl, the cartoon

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Speaker 1: character on front. But there's a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: you don't need. There's a lot of noise out there,

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Speaker 1: and I think that sort of speaks to that. The

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Speaker 1: green plastical, the affection is fake Blood, good from God.

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Speaker 1: That's soothing. Eric, put your later Away, Rachel, what do

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Speaker 1: you like about that song? I mean that song to

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Speaker 1: me has always been one of the finest radio Head songs.

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Speaker 1: I think lyrically it's fantastic. It's musically beautiful and haunting.

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Speaker 1: Um and yeah, it builds to a really kind of

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Speaker 1: great finale where you can kind of like pretty much

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Speaker 1: scream it loud and yeah, it's it's great. Does the business, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that one was just top of my list. Although The

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Speaker 1: Bins is funny, it's all about bad behavior and yet

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00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: it's it's like the best album ads. Eric will probably

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Speaker 1: back me up on. I think, you know, they wrote

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Speaker 1: it when they were twenty seven. Let's face it, we

390
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 1: were all doing bad things at age seven, and you're

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Speaker 1: kind of fighting yourself at that age, and so I

392
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Speaker 1: think they they kind of settled down, had kids in

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00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 1: their music became more about judge, you're looking at the

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Speaker 1: outside world. But The Bends I think was very much

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Speaker 1: about stuff going on in like their life and trying

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Speaker 1: to get your act together. Yeah, I agree, Like the

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Speaker 1: first couple of albums are kind of very personal. They

398
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: feel like they're they're dealing with their own personal demons,

399
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Speaker 1: and then as they kind of move out, they start

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Speaker 1: looking at consumerism, commercialism, all that kind of stuff, and

401
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: thinking about climate change and like next track, next track.

402
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Speaker 1: Also sticking with the bends, we have high and dry.

403
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Speaker 1: So okay, lyrics in there. Two jumps in a week.

404
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: I bet you think that's pretty clever, don't you, boy

405
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 1: So to me, obviously, thinking with an investor hat on,

406
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 1: this is about the perils of trading too frequency frequently.

407
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,120
Speaker 1: So basically what you want to be thinking about when

408
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 1: you're trading is not really trading, Like you only want

409
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 1: to be moving in and out of an ETF if

410
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: you're changing strategy, if there's a really profound reason for moving.

411
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 1: If you're jumping in and out twice in a week,

412
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Speaker 1: like the song talks about, then all you're doing is

413
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Speaker 1: racking up costs. It costs money to trade, um, so

414
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: you don't want to be doing that too frequently. And

415
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,439
Speaker 1: I think trading isn't the worst thing in the world,

416
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Speaker 1: but say that for the institutions and the professionals. But

417
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Speaker 1: even then there's been some evidence that it's it's tough

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00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 1: for them because the more costs again, you know, the

419
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 1: more you trade. It's sort of like the you know,

420
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: the casino. If you go and the more you gamble,

421
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: the more likely the house will win. So I think

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00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: that's definitely speaks to that as well. I'll throw one

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Speaker 1: other quickie in here on this whole behavior is where

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Speaker 1: I end, then you begin, which is kind of a

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Speaker 1: creepy song. It's it's good though. I think it's about

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Speaker 1: his father, but I don't know. I can't confirm that

427
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: to abstract, but I think it is. There's some products

428
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: out there that retail vestlers probably should just have like

429
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 1: a hard stop, don't touch, and I would put VIX

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00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: products in there. I'd put anything that holds futures, oil futures,

431
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: anything that uses derivatives and leverage ETFs. And I think

432
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: that's good, just to have a hard rule on that.

433
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 1: They're like power tools. You love your effects. Why why

434
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 1: wouldn't they You should have been a police academy. Okay, yeah,

435
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: i'd agree with that. I mean, like when you think

436
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: about leveraged e t f s, I mean, these are

437
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: very much intended for traders, right, They're not intended for

438
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: for retail. And sure, I mean you can be well

439
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: educated about how they work, but you've really got to

440
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: sort of understand, and I think for the vast majority

441
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: of people that that own them, they don't and they

442
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: get hammered by the roll costs. The same could be

443
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: said for some of these kind of more sort of

444
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: faddish thematic e t f s. Not to name names

445
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: or anything, per se, but I think there's a few

446
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: out there that perhaps are trying to to jump on

447
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: the bandwagon of something that's been been in the news

448
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: or seems to be popular, um, and that perhaps there's

449
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: not really a compelling investing argument to be in them. Okay,

450
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 1: so let's listen to that. Okay, So this is a

451
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 1: pretty epic back of T shirt set list that we've

452
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: just kind of rolled through. They put the cities on

453
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: the back, not the songs, but I'm putting the songs

454
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: on this one. This is your shirt, Yeah, my shirt,

455
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: my rules. What is somebody going to get out of

456
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: all of this advice about how to use et f

457
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: s more effectively? It comes back to the whole thing

458
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: we talked about about writing Capitalism's cotails. Why are you

459
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,959
Speaker 1: doing this? Why are we here? I'm still pondering it

460
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: ever since you asked it the first time. Don't go

461
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: that deep with that. Let's go second level. Second, the

462
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: reason is because you want to retire, you want to

463
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 1: send your kids to college, just basic stuff, right, So

464
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: all of this is so you can do that and

465
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: if you get you know, a little wealthy along the way,

466
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: that's that's a bonus. Rachel. There's a song that I

467
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 1: know you want to include to kind of help about

468
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: sign off on this idea, which one is that how

469
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: I made my millions? There you go there, Okay, so

470
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: how I made my millions? Okay, now, Joel, you're crying

471
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: balling over here? Why do I Why do I listen

472
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: to that? No, I'm joking, it's really it's beautiful. But

473
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: we're not done because you can't end on that note. Yeah,

474
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 1: that's a little even from my radio head standards, that's

475
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: a little so chin up here, because two plus two

476
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: equals five should as shuch a dream to putter? Ah?

477
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: So what ah, it's makes a fun Two plus two

478
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: equals five gets to the power of compounding interests. There

479
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: you go, I mean it is you know that there's

480
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: always that people that people talking about if you bought

481
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: such and such at you know, ten and dollars, it

482
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: really is true if you can just get in and

483
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: just hang in there. I mean that stuff compounds and

484
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: just get an just get a get a get a

485
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: hook in there, just do something. That's why UM and

486
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: this song it's it's interesting. This is a Orwellian phrase

487
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: from the book and it was really about brainwashing, and

488
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 1: we're turning it into a positive about compounding interest with

489
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: E T S. So that's a bit of a stretch,

490
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: but I think it works. It's power of radiohead. You

491
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: can apply it to betterything. Okay. Closing question, Rachel, you

492
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: probably know this by now. We like to ask people

493
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: what their favorite E T F taker is. However, I'm

494
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: going to change the rules slightly and ask you a hypothetical,

495
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: what do you think tom Yorke's favorite EF. So I

496
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: had a good long think about this UM and the

497
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: conclusion that I came up with for for what Tom's

498
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: favorite at F was given that this is Tommy why

499
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: a good friend? Given that this is twenty years since

500
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: okay computer came out, I thought he m quite like robo.

501
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: Yeah there you go, and everybody paranoid android that is robotics. Yeah, yeah,

502
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: you're right, that's a good one. That's more creative than

503
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: mind minds, probably a little too. What do you think

504
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: Tom's would be? I would go with the Climate Leadership

505
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: et F though, which is all about Yeah, but that

506
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: that's Tom. You're in a nutshell climate change and like

507
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: computer robots. Rachel Evans, Bloomberg News, Thank you so much,

508
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: thank you. Okay, So we reached out to the radiohead

509
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: because we just we had just done this episode and

510
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: we were just like, we have to hear what they

511
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: have to say about this. So it was like almost

512
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: Eric's dream. He got to email the band and here's

513
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: what they had to say. I did, but you're not

514
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: giving me credit for finding the email of the manager.

515
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: I had to go to some serious chat rooms in

516
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: blogs that only fans like me would know. But anyway,

517
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: I got it. So I emailed the band's manager, Chris Hufford.

518
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: He here's what he says back to me. Thanks for

519
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: the l Eric, but I'm afraid none of the band

520
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: are available best Chris, so at least it got back

521
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: to me and respect, respect, proser rating. Thanks thanks for

522
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: listening to trillions Until next time. You can find us

523
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg terminal Bloomberg dot com. Apple podcasts, and

524
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: probably a bunch of other places I haven't heard of yet.

525
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. We're on Twitter, I'm

526
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: at Joel Webber Show, He's at Eric call Tunis, and

527
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: our guest Rachel Evans is that Rachel Evans Underscore and

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00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: Why Trillions is produced by Jordan Bell with help from

529
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: Magnus Henrickson. Francesca Levie is the head of Bloomberg Podcast.

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00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: Bye