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Speaker 4: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past.

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Speaker 5: And the press.

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Speaker 4: You please, someone out of the.

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Speaker 6: Past can enter and take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 7: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 7: is not through with us.

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Speaker 8: Welcome back to the next Picture Show. Movie.

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Speaker 7: The week podcast devoted to a classic film and the

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Speaker 7: way it shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm

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Speaker 7: Scott Tobias here again with Keith.

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Speaker 9: Pepps's Robinson and Genavief Koski.

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Speaker 7: On last week's episode, we talked about AI Artificial Intelligence,

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Speaker 7: a science fiction film about an uncommonly sophisticated android who

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Speaker 7: gets adopted by a family and goes in a journey

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Speaker 7: to find them after they can no longer have him

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Speaker 7: in the house. This week, we're bringing in After Yang,

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Speaker 7: the new film by Koganada, who made a striking independent

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Speaker 7: debut with a twenty seventeen film Columbus. After Yang is

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Speaker 7: also about a sophisticated Android who gets adopted by a family,

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Speaker 7: but he malfunctions and breaks down right after the opening credits,

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Speaker 7: and so the journey in the film is not taken

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Speaker 7: by a robot, by by a father, Jake played by

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Speaker 7: Colin Farrell. Yang is the name of the quote unquote

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Speaker 7: techno Sapien that Jake and his wife Kira played by

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Speaker 7: Jody Turner Smith picked up for their own adopted daughter

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Speaker 7: as an older brother type. Though as too busy parents,

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Speaker 7: they've been leaning too hard on Yang to fill in

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Speaker 7: the care taking gaps, so, like any overcompensating father, Jake

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Speaker 7: promises is his daughter Mika that he's going to get

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Speaker 7: Yang repaired, even though he bought a refurbished model from

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Speaker 7: a shop in Chinatown that no longer exists, so in

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Speaker 7: the absence of a genius bar, Jake tries to get

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Speaker 7: the android fixed in various repair shops, but at a

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Speaker 7: certain point when it's clear repair isn't possible, he becomes

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Speaker 7: interested in accessing Yang's memories and understanding the philosophical mysteries

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Speaker 7: at his core. After Yang could be thought about as

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Speaker 7: a live action inside out and that Yang's component parts

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Speaker 7: allow us to break down the inner workings of the

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Speaker 7: human mind.

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Speaker 8: But it's also a.

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Speaker 7: Film about grief, identity, memory, and finally, the meaning of

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Speaker 7: life itself. Those are heavy questions and we'll get into

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Speaker 7: them after the break.

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Speaker 4: Come on, Yip, what are you doing?

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Speaker 10: Come on?

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Speaker 4: What happened to Yang? Shut down last night?

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Speaker 6: He won't restart this this having for it.

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Speaker 4: If we can't get Young fixed. I'm not gonna buy

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Speaker 4: another sibling for Meca.

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Speaker 11: It is an interior core problem. I need your permission

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Speaker 11: to break open the core. We'll always know the subots

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Speaker 11: were equipped with spy. Well, you might not want this

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Speaker 11: bot in your house anymore.

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Speaker 4: I wish I had a real memory.

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Speaker 10: What do you mean?

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Speaker 4: Did you want to be human?

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Speaker 9: That's such a human thing to ask, isn't it.

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Speaker 6: May I be honest with you?

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Speaker 4: Wait, it's not being honest an option for you.

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Speaker 1: Do you want him back?

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Speaker 4: Of course I do.

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Speaker 6: I want him back too, and just need a.

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Speaker 8: Little more time.

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Speaker 7: So what did you think of after Yang? Genevievkowski, Oh,

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Speaker 7: we're starting with me.

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Speaker 12: I really loved it. It kind of devastated me for

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Speaker 12: a fair amount of time. Afterwards, and I'm still I

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Speaker 12: was only able to watch it once as a screener,

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Speaker 12: and I really really wish I had had a chance

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Speaker 12: to watch it again in preparation, because I think there

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Speaker 12: are some really heady, like philosophical ideas at play here

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Speaker 12: that I surely could be picked apart more than I

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Speaker 12: was able to on that one viewing, because I think

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Speaker 12: I just responded to it so hard on an emotional level.

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Speaker 12: I think it really got to me most as a

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Speaker 12: film about grief and memory. And I will say I

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Speaker 12: semi recently lost a dog. It's still like really hard

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Speaker 12: for me, and my phone is delivering photos to me

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Speaker 12: every day, little like flashes of memory of him, and

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Speaker 12: I just kept thinking of that during those sequences of

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Speaker 12: Colin Farrell like going through, Like those sequences are very

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Speaker 12: impressively done and just like very cool on an editing

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Speaker 12: filmmaking level, but I feel like I was just processing

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Speaker 12: those sequences through this like different but kind of similar

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Speaker 12: personal experience I'm going through. So I think that's where

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Speaker 12: I really just like locked into the emotional core of

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Speaker 12: this in a way that maybe obscured some other parts

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Speaker 12: of it. But I will say also that I think

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Speaker 12: what initially struck me most about this film was the

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Speaker 12: world the look of it. And I've talked before on

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Speaker 12: this podcast how I'm like really prone to like locking

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Speaker 12: into interesting worlds and world building is like something that

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Speaker 12: I really gom onto with films, and we didn't talk

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Speaker 12: about it in AI Have, but it is something that

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Speaker 12: I was really drawn to in that film, and there

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Speaker 12: was so much in this world that I wanted to

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Speaker 12: know more about. But the fact that I came out

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Speaker 12: of this movie like not feeling frustrated that I didn't

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Speaker 12: know why there were plants inside all of the vehicles

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Speaker 12: for some reason, I think kind of underlines that for me,

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Speaker 12: like the emotional center of the film did end up

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Speaker 12: taking center stage.

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Speaker 9: Okay, that's fascinating. I had almost the exact opposite reaction

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Speaker 9: and yet very much a similar reaction. I also fixated

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Speaker 9: on the plants in the cars, But to me, I

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Speaker 9: mean that was just sort of emblematic of how I

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Speaker 9: responded to the film in general. I did not have

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Speaker 9: a huge emotional response to most of this film. There's

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Speaker 9: a sequence that is out on the internet. A twenty

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Speaker 9: four put it out as a promo. That's the opening

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Speaker 9: credits where the four person family at the heart of

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Speaker 9: the movie is competing in an off screen dance competition.

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Speaker 9: You just see the moves that they're making as they're

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Speaker 9: directed by an off screen voice as I forget, but

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Speaker 9: I think it's something like thirty thousand participants at the beginning,

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Speaker 9: and then they're eliminated in batches of many thousands at once,

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Speaker 9: and you see them competing, and several other people who

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Speaker 9: will come up later in the film competing with their

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Speaker 9: own families, And it's just such an explosive moment of

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Speaker 9: like verve in terms of the music and the motion,

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Speaker 9: everything going on. And I kept wanting to come back

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Speaker 9: to something like that throughout the film, which is very

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Speaker 9: quiet and very intellectual and very heady. But I didn't

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Speaker 9: have much of an emotional response to most of it,

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Speaker 9: apart from one moment that I think we'll get into

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Speaker 9: in a little bit. But I found myself afterward just

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Speaker 9: like not able to let it go. It's such a

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Speaker 9: densely constructed movie in a way different from AI, which

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Speaker 9: is constantly throwing imagery and dialogue at you. In this case,

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Speaker 9: it's the movies like constantly quietly layering ideas and emotions

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Speaker 9: and scene setting details like the moss in the cars

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Speaker 9: that just leaves you with a lot to pick apart.

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Speaker 9: So I had a much more chilly, intellectual response to

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Speaker 9: most of this movie rather than a huge, gushy emotional one.

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Speaker 9: But I still came out with a huge respect for

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Speaker 9: how it's constructed, and it's just really stuck with me.

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Speaker 9: I watched it out of Sundance, and I also haven't

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Speaker 9: had a screener and haven't been able to revisit it.

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Speaker 9: So I just find myself going back to individual moments,

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Speaker 9: individual scenes, and thoughts and lines and aesthetic choices with

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Speaker 9: the filmmaking. I think it's a really remarkable film, but

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Speaker 9: it's not a film that I had the giant emotional

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Speaker 9: response the two that you did.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I saw it out of sun Dance too, and

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Speaker 10: I watched it again. It's it's on showtime. Our friend

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Speaker 10: Sam Adam's had a piece where he interviewed Coconut and

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Speaker 10: read about the film and it's very good. I'm well

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Speaker 10: linking to it somewhere, but he talks about how it

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Speaker 10: is there's so much going on you could focus on

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Speaker 10: one element and kind of, you know, maybe less on others.

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Speaker 10: And the first time through, I really focused on, you know,

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Speaker 10: what the story was and the mystery of Yang and

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Speaker 10: where this was going. It's a point where when you

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Speaker 10: kind of get it, at the heart of the mystery

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Speaker 10: is it's so small and personal and and emotional, and

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Speaker 10: it is overwhelming. Iteps, it creeps up on you. The

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Speaker 10: second time through, I was really kind of trying to

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Speaker 10: untangle a bit of the world that we kind of

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Speaker 10: only see glimpses of of and what that meant and

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Speaker 10: and you know, reading Sam's piece and a piece by

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Speaker 10: Leo kim on On on Polygon, uh, you know, talking

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Speaker 10: about the identity element of it too, like because he

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Speaker 10: is a Yang is a robot, if not originally designed

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Speaker 10: for being used to help acclimate a child adapter from China,

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Speaker 10: which all kinds of questions. But I don't know, I

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Speaker 10: kind of rambling fun facts. I'm kind of I'm kind

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Speaker 10: of rambling around it. But but yeah, there's a lot going

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Speaker 10: on in this. But I think it's dense in a

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Speaker 10: way that invites exploration, and I think really comes into

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Speaker 10: focus in those moments when it dwells in the emotions

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Speaker 10: and they do hit really hard. I like this while

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Speaker 10: a lot I liked I like Coconata's first film, Columbus,

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Speaker 10: and I'm really enjoying Pachinko so far. I'm not I'm

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Speaker 10: only like three episodes into that, but but but so good.

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Speaker 12: We'll do a bonus episode on Pachinko for sure.

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Speaker 10: Well, no supports, but the end of the third episode

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Speaker 10: good lord, okay and carry on.

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Speaker 12: Well, and this will actually tie back into what Tasha

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Speaker 12: brought about the dance sequence that just real quick noting

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Speaker 12: the opening credits of Pachinko are some of my favorite ever.

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Speaker 12: They're so good, and I think the dance sequence in

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Speaker 12: after Yang like it's an opening credit sequence, you know. Well,

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Speaker 12: it culminates in Yang's malfunctioning, so I guess in that

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Speaker 12: one small way it's important to the plot. But really

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Speaker 12: it feels to me just kind of like a standalone

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Speaker 12: opening credits sequence, you know, and it doesn't necessarily relate

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Speaker 12: to the rest of the movie on a thematic or

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Speaker 12: tonal level. And to be like kind of cynical about it,

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Speaker 12: I feel that a twenty four in releasing, it was

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Speaker 12: maybe trying to like catch on to some x Machina

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Speaker 12: vibes and like attractive actor doing an interesting dance thing.

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Speaker 12: But it does not really fit I don't think with

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Speaker 12: the rest of the movie, and as Tasha Sebatt said,

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Speaker 12: it never really gets back to that ty of energy level.

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Speaker 12: But I think it's sort of a getting you excited

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Speaker 12: to watch the movie sequence. It's really effective.

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Speaker 10: It's only a second time through that I realized tell

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Speaker 10: us the rest of the casting. It's like, oh, that's

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Speaker 10: Clifton Collins.

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Speaker 5: J Yeah.

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Speaker 9: The mechanics of that though, because it does they do

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Speaker 9: just seem like a bunch of random strangers that you're

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Speaker 9: seeing it. It feels like back of dissolve. Jenevieve and

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Speaker 9: I did a podcast bonus episode about the DreamWorks dance

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Speaker 9: party ending and how you prayed all the characters out

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Speaker 9: to have a big dance at the end because you

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Speaker 9: don't know how else to end your movie with a

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Speaker 9: bunch of zazz and it just became a very standard

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Speaker 9: thing for animated movies for a while, and this kind

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Speaker 9: of feels like front loading that. But then when you

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Speaker 9: realize I recognize Clifton Collins and Sria Chowdray the first

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Speaker 9: time through and thought, Okay, that's interesting. They must be

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Speaker 9: in this film somewhere. But when we get deeper into

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Speaker 9: the film and we realize we never do see the

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Speaker 9: other three people that each of them have dancing with

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Speaker 9: them in those sequences. Those are just like little windows

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Speaker 9: into their families and their lives, and it's such an

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Speaker 9: invitation to parts of the movie, parts of the world

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Speaker 9: that we never see, parts of their personal lives that

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Speaker 9: we never see. It's such a provocative little tease, and

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Speaker 9: like so many things in this movie, it's just a

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Speaker 9: hugely dense thing that you're gently invited to unpack on

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Speaker 9: your own, because the movie isn't going to do it

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Speaker 9: for you.

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Speaker 7: My reaction to the film was similar to geneviecause it

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Speaker 7: was a huge gut punch for me and I am

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Speaker 7: quite a distance away from it. I saw it, I

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Speaker 7: was fortunate enough to see it in a theater and

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Speaker 7: was a complete disaster in the parking garage. After I

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Speaker 7: saw it, I think, you know, and it has been

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Speaker 7: for me, you know, a year, and kind of it

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Speaker 7: sort of continues and it was actually a review that

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Speaker 7: I started writing in the first person, which I never

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Speaker 7: do ever, never, never done ever in my whole career,

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Speaker 7: and then I decided to scrap it because now I

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Speaker 7: just didn't feel comfortable doing it and also just even

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Speaker 7: really sharing what was kind of going on. But I

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Speaker 7: did feel like I connected as to be just this

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Speaker 7: liver personal. You know, I'm not a believer, really, I'm

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Speaker 7: not a church goer, and the film kind of I

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Speaker 7: consider myself sort of a glass half full atheist, and

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Speaker 7: I feel like the film kind of connected with me

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Speaker 7: powerfully on that on that level of just like when

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Speaker 7: you when you are a person such as myself, life

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Speaker 7: becomes incredibly significant. You're not thinking about and to the

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Speaker 7: extent that you're thinking about the afterlife. You're thinking about

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Speaker 7: how how lives seed other lives and affect other lives,

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Speaker 7: and and and and for for the film to kind

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Speaker 7: of vibe on that a little bit, I felt the

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Speaker 7: film really resonated on that very specific level of just

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Speaker 7: that understanding of this android that absolutely does not have

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Speaker 7: an after life. I think we can pretty much, you know,

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Speaker 7: I don't think he's there's a robot heaven here, but

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Speaker 7: whose life is determined to be significant because of the

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Speaker 7: influence that he had on the lives of others. I

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Speaker 7: mean that that was what really got to me, you know,

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Speaker 7: And I'm intellectualizing it now, but I think that's what

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Speaker 7: kind of accounted for how hard it hit me when

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Speaker 7: I was you know, you know, when I was sort

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Speaker 7: of after the film, I just kind of like that

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Speaker 7: take on the meaning of life, and I mean that

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Speaker 7: that was what got to me about After Yang, you know,

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Speaker 7: on top of everything else. And this is something that

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Speaker 7: Sam mentioned that the piece is like, you can leave

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Speaker 7: that movie and write a pretty long list of the

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Speaker 7: themes of After Yang is it is a it is

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Speaker 7: a film, It is a rich text, and that has

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Speaker 7: been thoroughly, thoroughly throughout, thought through by COCONAUTI here. Yeah,

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Speaker 7: So that was basically my basic response to that, to

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Speaker 7: the movie, I was quite moved by it.

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Speaker 12: Was it the scene where Kira and Yang are talking

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Speaker 12: about the improbability of an afterlife specifically that prompted that reaction,

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Speaker 12: or was it just the greater whole of the film.

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Speaker 8: I think it was there.

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Speaker 7: I mean the scene that I keep going a couple

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Speaker 7: of scenes I go back. I mean, it's the ending

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Speaker 7: of the movie. I just so sweet with the father

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Speaker 7: and daughter and that amazing cover of the of the

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Speaker 7: song from All about Lily Shushu that Mitski does, and

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Speaker 7: the way that leads that is just so great. And

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Speaker 7: I think there's also the scene where where we flash

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Speaker 7: back to Yang teaching Mika about the tree right and

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Speaker 7: about about how she the grafting, the grafting right of

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Speaker 7: just how you know, she's not maybe made to think

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Speaker 7: that she's not a part of this family, but she is,

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Speaker 7: and she's created something new that she's bonded to this

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Speaker 7: tree and has become part of it forever, you know,

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Speaker 7: And it's just like those kind of ideas you know,

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Speaker 7: seated in the movie.

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Speaker 8: I mean, I think there's just a you.

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Speaker 7: Know, this is a very unusual science fiction movie because

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Speaker 7: you know, it's so emotional, and I think that its

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Speaker 7: worldview is fundamentally optimistic, which is again not something we're

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Speaker 7: used to seeing in a futuristic science fiction movie. That

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Speaker 7: doesn't mean that it is without its moments of bleakness,

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Speaker 7: but I think there's a warmth to this film that

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Speaker 7: is quite striking.

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Speaker 9: So while we're getting personal, I alluded earlier to the

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Speaker 9: fact that there was one thing in the movie that

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Speaker 9: really undid me emotionally, and talking about the tree grafting scene,

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Speaker 9: I I'm not sure how much I associated how much

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Speaker 9: I put these factors together while actually watching the movie

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Speaker 9: again it's been a little while, but the thing that

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Speaker 9: undid me was a different visual of a tree. There's

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Speaker 9: a moment in the film where Colin Ferrell finds out

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Speaker 9: that Yang had an eternal recorder that could record very

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Speaker 9: small snippets of memory, and he interfaces with it. He's

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Speaker 9: just he's The visual is just him sitting on a

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Speaker 9: futon with dark glasses on, talking to the dark glasses.

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Speaker 9: But then you see the point of view of this

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Speaker 9: ar interface where he's entering Yang's memory for the first

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Speaker 9: time and visualizing it, and he realizes that there's more

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Speaker 9: there than he realized, and he opens up a second

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Speaker 9: menu and it appears as this, as this. Wow, it

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Speaker 9: appears as this giant branching tree of connected memories, and

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Speaker 9: it's I mean, it's a tree and it's like a

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Speaker 9: galaxy of stars at the same time. It's a really

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Speaker 9: aesthetically beautiful image. But you know, for me, what that

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Speaker 9: opened up is just one of the things that I've

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Speaker 9: been most obsessed with, I think throughout my life is

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Speaker 9: just this feeling that everybody contains that kind of vast,

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Speaker 9: complicated galaxy, and when when people die, we lose any

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Speaker 9: interface with it at all, we lose any window into it.

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Speaker 9: But for the most part, it's just very hard to

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Speaker 9: access any meaningful percentage of that in any one person.

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Speaker 9: It's so difficult to connect to each other in any

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Speaker 9: kind of way. That reflects how vast our inner worlds are.

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Speaker 9: And this was a visual image that communicates that in

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Speaker 9: one second. And then as he slowly starts moving deeper

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Speaker 9: into this tree and examining these memories, he basically gets

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Speaker 9: to live inside somebody else's skin. And much like with Ai,

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Speaker 9: the movie doesn't explain this to us. He doesn't say

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Speaker 9: any of this to anybody later. He doesn't talk about

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Speaker 9: the profundity of wearing Yang's skin and living his life.

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Speaker 9: But the idea of having that intimate connection to somebody

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Speaker 9: else is overwhelming to me. And then the idea of

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Speaker 9: being able to use something like that to understand somebody

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Speaker 9: who's gone, who you can't speak to about, how you

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Speaker 9: understand them in a new way, I think is heartbreaking

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Speaker 9: and part of the human condition, you know, just the

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Speaker 9: what we lose when people die. So yeah, a lot

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Speaker 9: of kind of visual elements to this movie that just

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Speaker 9: tap into like gigantic, hard to fathom, hard to communicate

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Speaker 9: ideas about the human condition in very simple but like

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Speaker 9: evocative aesthetic ways.

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Speaker 12: It's so interesting to me that you point that out

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Speaker 12: as the scene, Tasha, because it's the same scene I

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Speaker 12: was referring to when I was talking to how it

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Speaker 12: knocked me out, But I was processing it in a

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Speaker 12: just a different way, a more external way, I think,

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Speaker 12: in terms of how humans and technology and memory work together,

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Speaker 12: and like that visual like I said, I was processing

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Speaker 12: as my phone giving me memories of my dog every day,

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Speaker 12: and the little like pull down screen of memory, you know,

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Speaker 12: of today's memories, and just the feeling that you get

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Speaker 12: these like little snippets of something that was so important

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Speaker 12: and so big and so real and you just have

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Speaker 12: this like little tiny glimpse of it, infinite tiny glimpses.

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Speaker 12: But it's still not the whole. It's still not the thing.

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Speaker 12: But again, to go back to the rich text of it,

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Speaker 12: all the way you read it absolutely like I get

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Speaker 12: that too. So I think it's very much a movie that,

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Speaker 12: like what you bring to it is going to inform

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Speaker 12: how you interpret any given moment or visual even.

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Speaker 10: I think it's smart and kind of lovely too, that

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Speaker 10: we only do get those little snippets too, because he

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Speaker 10: doesn't really get to relive Yang's life, he gets to

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Speaker 10: have the suggestions of it. And I think it's also

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Speaker 10: kind of captures how memory works. I mean, they are

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Speaker 10: these really you know, point a powerful flashes. You don't

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Speaker 10: you know, you don't have flashbacks, you have something more

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Speaker 10: like I can do this, which is like I remember

401
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Speaker 10: being at that show and how you know someone I

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Speaker 10: love looked at that show and or you know, I

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Speaker 10: remember we're walking down this pathway and you know it

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Speaker 10: is It is more like that than at extended flashback.

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Speaker 10: When we do get a flashback in this, it is

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Speaker 10: a living person recalling it too. And it's so nicely

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Speaker 10: done the way they show that opening that a scene

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Speaker 10: in the photograph being taken from different angles and different perspectives.

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Speaker 10: And I don't know, there's a lot to a pack,

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Speaker 10: and the more you pack, I think they're more there

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Speaker 10: is to admire in this film.

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Speaker 9: So just to add a yet another wrinkle on top

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Speaker 9: of all of this, the piece that we put up

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Speaker 9: at Polygon today that Keith referenced earlier is from an

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Speaker 9: Asian writer who's written a lot about techno orientalism and

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Speaker 9: what he calls the hollow Asian body the stereotype. This

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Speaker 9: is a science fiction trope that I was not aware of,

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Speaker 9: and I'll leave it to him. Well, we'll point to

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Speaker 9: it in the show notes. I'm sure I'll leave it

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Speaker 9: to him to unpack because it's complicated and there's a

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Speaker 9: long history in science fiction. But effectively, he came to

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Speaker 9: me wanting to write about this idea that science fiction

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Speaker 9: marginalizes Asian people, particularly in ways that presents them as

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Speaker 9: cold and unfeeling, like complicated calculators, good at math, not

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Speaker 9: good at emotions, and effectively creates the idea of a

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Speaker 9: hollow Asian body that other people can put on and

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Speaker 9: insert themselves into. And I read this pitch and he

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Speaker 9: hadn't seen the movie yet, and I said, you have

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Speaker 9: to see this movie. So I sent him to see it,

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Speaker 9: and it fits so clearly into his thesis. Like we

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Speaker 9: just kind of geeked out about it for a while,

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Speaker 9: and he ended up writing a piece about it and

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Speaker 9: then talking to the director who said, yeah, this is

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Speaker 9: exactly what I'm addressing. So on top of all of

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Speaker 9: these experiences that we personally had with our own interfaces

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Speaker 9: with this idea of entering Yang's body. It's also very

437
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 9: specifically addressing a science fiction trope of Asians being empty people,

438
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 9: except in this case, the white guy enters the Asian

439
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 9: body and instead of finding it empty because the literal

440
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 9: Asian robot is a calculator, he finds it full of

441
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 9: a far vaster and richer life than he possibly could

442
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 9: have imagined and gains access to it. So all of

443
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 9: us are having these very individual interactions and responses to it.

444
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 9: But it's also in conversation with all of science fiction

445
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 9: history and an entire range of racist, prejudicial stereotypes that

446
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 9: are out in the culture. It's dealing with all of

447
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 9: those things and Coconauta's own life and own history and

448
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 9: own culture at the same time. It's just it's ridiculous

449
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 9: how far down the rabbit hole this movie goes.

450
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 10: I was just thrilled that you let him use the

451
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 10: term sci fi and that piece, Tasha.

452
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 9: I've gotten over it. It's it works so much better

453
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 9: in headlines. We're constantly worried about like character length on

454
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 9: stuff I've broken down on, Like It's fine, it's sci fi.

455
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,239
Speaker 10: You're in my head whenever I try to write her,

456
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 10: like noa Tasha didn't like that.

457
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 9: I loved you, Harlan Ellison, but you're dead. You don't

458
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 9: get to control whether we say sci fi anymore. I'm

459
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 9: so sorry.

460
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 7: He's the most litigious dead person.

461
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 9: I don't know he's doing this podcast right now because

462
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 9: we mentioned incredible, how did he know just.

463
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 12: To tag on to what Tasha was talking about and

464
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 12: also recommend yet another piece written by a friend of

465
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 12: the show, Alison Wilmore, who reviewed it for Vulture, And

466
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 12: she also kind of honed in on the Asian tropes

467
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 12: of sci fi, but on a much more visual level,

468
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 12: and how especially in Asian inflected futures are often very

469
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 12: dystopian and these borrow trapping is a symptom of society

470
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 12: is becoming more callous and crowded, more foreign around main

471
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 12: characters who invariably aren't And she was really taken with

472
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 12: the warmth and the unfussiness of the way that the

473
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 12: film works its Asian influences into its world building. So

474
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 12: I think that's yet another piece worth reading. If this

475
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 12: element of the film is an of interest to you.

476
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 9: Yeah, for sure. The sort of pan Asian influences in

477
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 9: the like the architecture, the kind of kimono style clothing

478
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 9: that everyone wears, the presence of bond Sai trees, the

479
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 9: particular cut wall hangings, the eating of ramen, the fact

480
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 9: that Colin Ferrell's career is in running a tea shop

481
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 9: where he's very tied up in like the aesthetic experience

482
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 9: of tea. There's a ton of kind of like Asian

483
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 9: culture trappings to this future without that sense of like

484
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 9: over technologicalization. Is that a word, without the sort of

485
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 9: burden of technology that we see in so many futures

486
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 9: like Blade Runner and play Runner twenty forty nine.

487
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I mean the world of the film

488
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 7: is kind of fascinating to unpack, just just the how

489
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 7: unspecific it is while also being very specific, you know.

490
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 8: I mean, like like it's full of these details of.

491
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 7: The of the flowers growing in cars, and you know,

492
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 7: it has strong ideas about, you know, what people wear

493
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 7: and how they interact and what their homes look like

494
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 7: and that sort of thing.

495
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 8: But it doesn't. It doesn't.

496
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 7: It's not interested in telling us when this is going

497
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 7: to be. It doesn't or how the world came to

498
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 7: be this way. It doesn't necessarily have a strong opinion

499
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 7: one way or the other about about how we're supposed

500
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 7: to feel about this, about this world. It just is

501
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 7: kind of like this really interestingly drawn thing that we

502
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 7: can kind of play around in a little bit.

503
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 12: There is one like really kind of overt detail that

504
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 12: I can think of in terms of like kind of

505
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 12: a clue of the history of this role. I'm wondering

506
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 12: if it's stuck out to anyone.

507
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 7: Is it? It's not the racist shop owner with a little.

508
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 12: Sign, right, Yeah, there's no yellow in this red, white,

509
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 12: and blue.

510
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 10: I think, I mean there's some sort of history there

511
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 10: that we're not getting the full story of attentions with China,

512
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 10: you know why, you know, I don't. I don't think

513
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 10: it's a flaw. I think there's a lot of withheld

514
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 10: information and you know, the whole idea. There's sort of

515
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 10: elements to Yang's build that are that are like, you know,

516
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 10: antique and mysterious in some way. You know, we it's

517
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 10: never fully explained. That's okay, But yeah, there's definitely more

518
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 10: than we're than we're shown.

519
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 9: And there's also just a whole thread about where, first

520
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 9: of all, where techno sapiens came from. You know, Sarita

521
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 9: Chowdray is playing a museum curator who talks about them

522
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 9: like they came from the end of AI, you know,

523
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 9: like they're visiting aliens like she She talks about their

524
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 9: mysteries and their origins in a very non specific way

525
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 9: that just makes it seem like there was probably some

526
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 9: singularity event that nobody understands. We don't really know who

527
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 9: makes techno sapiens or why they are the way they are.

528
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 10: And on top of that, late in the film, we're

529
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 10: introduced the idea of clones, which has not best you know,

530
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 10: I've seen it twice now. I don't believe it comes

531
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 10: up before they're referenced, and it's just another little sign

532
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 10: posts that we're not allowed to follow, but I think

533
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 10: enriches the world of the film in some interesting ways.

534
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 9: I should say. This is based on a short story

535
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 9: by an author named Alexander Weinstein, who we haven't brought up.

536
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 9: Coconauta read the story and was just really fascinated by,

537
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 9: specifically the idea of exploring mourning for a robot. But

538
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 9: having read the short story, like the cloning idea and

539
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 9: the prejudice that the Colin Ferrell character Jake has against

540
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 9: clones are there in the story and it's just this

541
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 9: weird little George Saunders detail that doesn't really explore and

542
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 9: in the movie, that's that's one of the few places

543
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 9: that I felt an actual lack in what was withheld

544
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 9: from us, you know, that it doesn't just feel like

545
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 9: part of the background that we don't need to explore,

546
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 9: like this is evidence that our main character whose journey

547
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 9: we're following has a strong prejudice like that borders on racism,

548
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 9: like that clearly is a striation in the society. But

549
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 9: because the clones that we see in the film know

550
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 9: about his prejudice and are angry about it and treat

551
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 9: him differently because of it, and reference it as though

552
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 9: it's like a larger thread in society, but we have

553
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 9: no idea what his objection is. And that is maybe

554
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 9: the only thing in this movie that rankled me a

555
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 9: little bit, is just sort of that feeling of, you know,

556
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 9: if you're going to make your your main character a

557
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 9: bigot in some way, like you need to have some

558
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 9: sense of why he is that way, or like what

559
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:54,479
Speaker 9: his objection is.

560
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 8: But that's it.

561
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 9: I mostly just want to bring in the fact that

562
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 9: this is, you know, based on somebody's store that you

563
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 9: can go out and find online.

564
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, I guess maybe I just didn't. That's a failure

565
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,959
Speaker 7: on my part. I didn't really track all all of that.

566
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 7: But again it's been it's a lot of film and

567
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 7: a little bit of a distance from seeing it that

568
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 7: the one time that I did. But I think that

569
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 7: we can say that there are some associations let's say

570
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 7: between the hostility felt here towards the future and and

571
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 7: say the flesh fair and and Ai.

572
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 8: And we'll be right back after this break to.

573
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 7: Talk about that and many many other connections between Ai

574
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 7: and after Yang.

575
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 4: Yang's been wonderful and we don't miss him. To herapeople,

576
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 4: we've been over reliant on him. We poor young to

577
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 4: connect Mica to Chinese heritage, not Terresa.

578
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 6: We spent a lot of money on Yang man in love.

579
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 6: We'll feel bad if he does more for Mega than

580
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 6: teacher Chinese. Fun fact, he does a lot more than that.

581
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 6: But you're missing the point.

582
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 10: What's the point.

583
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 4: If we can't fix Yang, We're not going to buy

584
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 4: another sibling for Mega. That would just be strange. We

585
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 4: can't afford it anyway. So we need to be more involved,

586
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 4: more than we are now, and not just in raising her,

587
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 4: in connecting Mega to our culture and heritage, that will

588
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 4: be on us. So we need to be ready.

589
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 7: Now it's time for connections when we bring these two

590
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 7: films together Ai and a Y as Keith referred to them,

591
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 7: and talk about all the things they have in common. Keith,

592
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 7: you want to get us started here.

593
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 10: I mean, I was struck when we originally came up

594
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 10: with this pairing that that After Yang is in some

595
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 10: way a mirror image of Ai, and since that Ai

596
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 10: is a film about a family in his opening segments,

597
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 10: at least, it's a film about a family that's disrupted

598
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 10: or threatened or somehow you know, made even by the

599
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 10: presence of a a robot child, Whereas After Yang is

600
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 10: a film about how the absence, the removal, and the

601
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 10: mourning for a an android threatens the stability of a family.

602
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 10: I mean, to me, it's just kind of that right

603
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 10: there is I don't know to what degree AI was

604
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 10: a direct influence on that, but it almost feels like

605
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 10: an attempt to turn some elements of Ai inside out.

606
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, it definitely does feel like a sharp

607
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 9: reversal to have Mika being kind of the driving force

608
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 9: in the family for fixing, bring him back. He was

609
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 9: he was important to me, we had bonded versus the

610
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 9: way Martin responds to David in Ai.

611
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 8: Martin, he was on death door. Give Martin a break.

612
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 9: I mean, I don't know. I don't know whether we

613
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 9: should give him a break or not. He again, he does.

614
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 9: He does some terrible things and it results in some

615
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 9: terrible things. But Ai is not concerned at all. I

616
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 9: think with Martin's inner life, with who he is and

617
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 9: what he's lost in his illness, what he's lost apart

618
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,439
Speaker 9: from that, like forlorn sullen look that he gives his

619
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 9: friends who are playing in the pool because he's clearly

620
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 9: not allowed to join them. I just don't think that

621
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 9: we have that much of a sense of who he

622
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 9: is or why he matters. Whereas Mika in After Yang

623
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 9: is kind of one of the emotional centers of the movie.

624
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 9: Like we see a lot more movement and action and

625
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 9: thought and development out of Jake, but Mika is the

626
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 9: one in the family that feels things strongly, you know,

627
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 9: because she's such a young child. The loss. She feels

628
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 9: Yang as a person, where the parents both kind of

629
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 9: see him as a convenient household device, you know the

630
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,479
Speaker 9: robot that we're joking about at the top of part

631
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 9: one of this conversation that can you know, cook and

632
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 9: do our laundry. He was their babysit or robot that

633
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 9: was full of Chinese fun facts and Mandarin lessons. But

634
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 9: you know, Tamika, he's a person, and he's a person

635
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 9: that's died, and nobody's really acknowledging it.

636
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 8: Well.

637
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 7: I mean you can see too that attitude potentially of

638
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 7: her parents in the way and the way Yang's body

639
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 7: is kind of like flopped over on the kitchen table.

640
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 7: I mean, that's not really how you treat any being

641
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 7: that you considered to be human who had died. It

642
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 7: was like, oh, it's it's this thing that I need

643
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 7: to take into the shop. And I think it's a

644
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 7: little I think they must acknowledge that it's a little

645
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 7: bit more than that, but it's less than human for sure.

646
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 12: I'm also interested specifically in the marriages, the husband and wives,

647
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 12: and these family units and have they're reflected in each

648
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 12: of these films. We don't get a whole lot between

649
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 12: Henry and Monica, or they don't get a whole lot

650
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 12: of information about them as a couple. But what we

651
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 12: do get, like, I feel like the only time we

652
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 12: see them kind of happy and connecting is right after

653
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 12: Monica imprints on David and like the whole perfume sequence,

654
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 12: like while they're getting ready to go out. I feel

655
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 12: like that's the only time we see them like really

656
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 12: enjoying being in each other's presence, And like maybe there's

657
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 12: there's some sort of implication that like Monica needed a

658
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 12: child to feel like whole in her relationship, whereas I

659
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 12: feel like after Yang is pretty strongly fixated on the

660
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 12: marriage between Jake and Kira. You know, we've said a

661
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 12: dozen times now, there's a lot going on in this film,

662
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 12: but there's a whole marriage story happening happening here that

663
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 12: And I was really struck by the fact that for

664
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 12: how much of the film they never share a frame together.

665
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 12: I think there's maybe three scenes where they're like together

666
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 12: in a frame, and or they're like way on opposite

667
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 12: sides of it, Like they're physically distanced through so much

668
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 12: of this movie. And I wouldn't say that they like

669
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,959
Speaker 12: come together by the end of it, but they are

670
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 12: maybe like kind of making steps back toward each other

671
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 12: as a couple and like, I'm not sure exactly what

672
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 12: that's meant to comment on, but I just find it

673
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 12: interesting that this story that is so much about Yang

674
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 12: and so much about Yang and Mika, is also so

675
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 12: much about the parents and this relationship and kind of

676
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 12: separated from the main storyline, but also like very much

677
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 12: intertwined with it.

678
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 9: I mean, I think the tension there is both of

679
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 9: them have been relying on Yang to take over their

680
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 9: parental duties, and when he's out of commission, they're both

681
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 9: pretty frustrated with just the everyday ritual of you have

682
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 9: to feed this kid, you have to get this kid

683
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 9: to school, you have to bring this kid home from school.

684
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 9: You have to care for her and entertain her and

685
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 9: raise her as a human being, which is something neither

686
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 9: of them have really been doing. And there's the added tension.

687
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 9: And this is a detail I find fascinating that the

688
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 9: film doesn't get much into that. Colin Feryol's tea shop

689
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 9: is clearly not doing well. It's empty. The one customer

690
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 9: that we see in it is annoyed because essentially he

691
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 9: doesn't tea crystals. Yeah she tea doesn't your tea shop,

692
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 9: you don't have tea crystals. But he's telling his wife

693
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 9: that it's so packed that he has to come home

694
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 9: late every night. You know, he's deliberately distancing himself from

695
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 9: his family for whatever reason. He just doesn't want to

696
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 9: be home. He doesn't want to be bothered, and they're

697
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,399
Speaker 9: both kind of seeing their daughter as a burden. So

698
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 9: the gradual move back towards each other also move back

699
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 9: towards bonding with Mika and remembering that Mika is a

700
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 9: human being that they love and are responsible for as

701
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 9: opposed to you know, just kind of another check mark

702
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 9: in their day.

703
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:13,439
Speaker 8: Yeah.

704
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 7: I mean, Yang is basically an incredibly sophisticated tablet, right,

705
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 7: I mean, he's the tablet that you give the kid

706
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 7: and the kid kind of goes off and entertains herself.

707
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 8: Right.

708
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 7: Not that that ever happens at the Tobias household, Like

709
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 7: it is never My kids have never seen tablets their

710
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 7: phones in their whole life. But I mean, but it does,

711
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 7: But it does kind of, you know, it is this

712
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 7: kind of supplement and when you it is kind of

713
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,720
Speaker 7: a mediating force and it kind of unbalances this family.

714
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 7: Y Yang does that in that respect, and his disappearance

715
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 7: is helpful to some extent to the degree that you know,

716
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 7: I mean not just of course, the film isn't quite

717
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 7: sympathetic about how meaningful Yang ultimately is, but the way

718
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 7: that Yang is being used by this family, while well

719
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 7: intentioned and in a lot of ways, is also kind

720
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 7: of getting in the way of what their roles are

721
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 7: supposed to be as parents and then also, you know,

722
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 7: relatedly the roles as a husband and wife. So all

723
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 7: of that kind of makes sense. One other thing I

724
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 7: kind of wanted to mention too, about when you're talking

725
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 7: about the kind of connections of these films is just

726
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 7: how you know, and how they kind of parallel each

727
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 7: other mirror images each other in fascinating ways, is that

728
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 7: they're both these journeys of discovery, you know, one kind

729
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 7: of undertaken by David and Ai and then and Uh

730
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 7: and uh after Dang one being sort of undertaken by

731
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 7: Jake and and and you know, at least through through

732
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 7: David certainly learned something, but but we we definitely learned

733
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 7: something about the world of Ai through David's departure from

734
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 7: the bubble of his domestic life and and UH or

735
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 7: at least his adopted folks life and UH and and

736
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 7: in uh In. After Yang, I think Jacob learns learns

737
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 7: a lot too. I mean that this is you know,

738
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 7: he has this idea that he can just find the

739
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 7: origins of of this androidn't get it fixed. I mean,

740
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 7: he just wants to get it fixed. It's a machine

741
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 7: that needs to get fixed, you know. You know, of

742
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 7: course we learned through him a little bit what the

743
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 7: what the world of the film looks like. But also,

744
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 7: you know, he learns a lot about the significance of

745
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 7: what Yang has done or how he has affected people's lives.

746
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 7: Of this vast store of memories and things that things

747
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 7: that happened you know, before Yang or before they knew Yang,

748
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 7: also come to light as well. And so both of

749
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 7: these films really kind of do you know, function as

750
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 7: very similarly arced journeys of discovery.

751
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 10: He also kind of has to reflect on his own

752
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 10: relationship with Yang and realized it was deeper than he

753
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 10: ever really considered that that. I don't know if he

754
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 10: ever thought of him as a son, but certainly their

755
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 10: interactions are such that he kind of had to reckon

756
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 10: with paternal feelings that he wasn't necessarily and aware that

757
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 10: he had at the time.

758
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 12: As for Ai, I think this is a point at

759
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,919
Speaker 12: which we have to discuss Doctor.

760
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 8: No, oh No. The one element of the film that.

761
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 12: I, uh, well, well, Scott's oh no definitely makes me

762
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 12: want to hear his reaction. But we'll just note that

763
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 12: I think that sequence is it's interesting in how it

764
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 12: presents the different types of knowledge that one can seek

765
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 12: and the different places one can can find it, and

766
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 12: then the fact that it is ultimately revealed that when

767
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 12: David does get the answer he was looking for, it

768
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,479
Speaker 12: was im planted there for him to get him back

769
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 12: to William Hurt. So I found Doctor No fascinating, But

770
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 12: why oh no, Scott.

771
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 7: I just think that's definitely something that Kubrick would not

772
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 7: have done, is to put Robin Williams of that role

773
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 7: annoyed and annoyed me as Robin Williams does Stalley.

774
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 10: Kubrick would never put a chameleonic community castor films, never

775
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 10: never been done, and.

776
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 9: Certainly would never like have a like a mid scene

777
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 9: twist where that beloved comedic actor reveals himself as something

778
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 9: deeper and more sort of more ominous in a lot

779
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 9: of ways back in the day, the doctor now being

780
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 9: Robin Williams irritated me. It did have that feeling of

781
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 9: let's get the biggest celebrity we can find to do

782
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:31,919
Speaker 9: this wacky voiceover role, and it felt way too Aladdin now.

783
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 9: I mean, I look back at on it with that

784
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 9: feeling of you know, you've first of all, I miss

785
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 9: Robin Williams, and it's always it's good to hear his

786
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 9: voice again. And second of all, you've got something that's

787
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 9: a fast paced pattern, that's a kind of like gesture

788
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 9: character who's playing with your mind. Yeah, of course that

789
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 9: should be Robin Williams. But also just you know, in

790
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 9: the same way that that Robin Williams would sometimes take

791
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 9: on roles that would take him in a very sa

792
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 9: serious direction. The transition in the Doctor Nos scene between

793
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 9: this aladdinesque genie patter of I've got whatever you need,

794
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 9: but I'm also going to cheat you as much as

795
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 9: possible switching to this very serious, very solemn recitation of

796
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 9: a Yates poem, I think just has a lot of

797
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 9: impact because it's Robin Williams. Because you go from from

798
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:27,280
Speaker 9: this like goofy manic delivery to this whispered recitation, this

799
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 9: this imparting of serious knowledge which, by the way, also

800
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 9: just imparting a poem that I happened to absolutely love

801
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 9: and had completely forgotten was referenced here. So having that

802
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 9: come out of nowhere just felt like a hell of

803
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:40,919
Speaker 9: an Easter egg.

804
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 8: Can I share it with you? A theory I just

805
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 8: thought of just now about Afriyank.

806
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 12: Half Big theories are our favorite related to Robin Williams

807
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 12: appearance in them.

808
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 7: No, this is complete, This is a total, total non succerer.

809
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 7: But maybe that we can just pivot off this and

810
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 7: something else. My theory of five minutes ago is that

811
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 7: is that after Yang is is a hold onto your

812
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 7: physical media movie and then and then and then if

813
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 7: you think about if you think about Yang as being,

814
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 7: you know you can you can work on these parts.

815
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 8: Right, He's got the parts that you get that of

816
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 8: course can be fixed.

817
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 7: But the core of him cannot be accessed by anyone.

818
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 8: Right.

819
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 7: That's that is the property, that is the property of

820
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 7: the creator of that. You cannot have the soul of something.

821
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 7: The soul of something is it now belongs to Sony

822
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 7: or or or Netflix or what like. It's like, you know,

823
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:36,720
Speaker 7: you can't have it. It's not yours anymore.

824
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 12: Proprietary.

825
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 8: It's proprietary. That's right. This is a proprietary right. Yang

826
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 8: is a.

827
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 7: Proprietary The core of Yang, the heart of Yang, this

828
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 7: the soul that we we are. We have discovered and

829
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 7: found so much to to uh so enriching that that

830
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 7: is not ours to have, that is not ours to keep.

831
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 7: That is something that is that is that we have

832
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 7: to return because because we were only we're only renting

833
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 7: it were we don't own it. So it's a hold

834
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 7: on to your physical media movie After Yang.

835
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 9: In terms of holding onto your physical media, one of

836
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 9: the things I most wanted to get to in the

837
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 9: first half that we had to move on from was

838
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 9: the degree to which the junkyard, the dumping of all

839
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 9: of this physical media, all of these dissected robot parts

840
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 9: and the scavengers that come to start of pick them

841
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 9: up and start trying to put themselves together, is just indicative,

842
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 9: in that really unspoken world building way, of a society

843
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 9: that's very very careless about the things it creates and

844
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 9: the things it discards. And the contrast between that and

845
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 9: After Yang and the amount of time we see spent

846
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,879
Speaker 9: on exploring what can be done about Yang, like can

847
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 9: we save Yang. If not, can we save his experiences?

848
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 9: He's been saving his experiences. The difference between obsessing about

849
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 9: the soul of Yang and what it means and how

850
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 9: we can act us it versus discarding all of these

851
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 9: personalities that in many ways come across as people with feelings,

852
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 9: maybe not fully nuanced feelings, but certainly they care about

853
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 9: the things they've been taught to care about. I think

854
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 9: that's a strong contrast between these two movies, and particularly

855
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:22,240
Speaker 9: just in terms of setting up a world where people

856
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 9: are very casual about creating children effectively and then.

857
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 12: Programming them to feel pain really twisted.

858
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, one extremely important connection that we kind of got

859
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 7: a little bit into and when talking about the family unit,

860
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 7: but maybe we should drill into a little bit more.

861
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 7: Here is the idea of both David and Yang and

862
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 7: Mika being adopted into a family and what that ends

863
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 7: up meaning and how that ends up kind of shaping

864
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 7: their childhood and our perception of their childhood twenty Vieve.

865
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 12: Yeah, I didn't bring this up in the first half

866
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 12: of our After Yang discussion, but probably the thing I

867
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 12: connected to most with After Yang, after the sort of

868
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 12: immediate grief memory element of it is sort of the

869
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 12: way that adoption is worked into its premise, and specifically

870
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 12: the ethics of adoption, an interracial adoption in particular, and

871
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 12: again to get a little personal, like, adoption is something

872
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 12: that I've thought about down the line, but it's very

873
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 12: complicated and it's not something that can be entered into lightly,

874
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 12: particularly when you're adopting a child from a culture that

875
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 12: isn't your own. And what I find so interesting about

876
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 12: After Yang is that its premise just acknowledges this as

877
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 12: a baseline fact, that parents who adopt children from cultures

878
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 12: that aren't their own have a duty to impart their

879
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,839
Speaker 12: cultural identity onto them somehow, and there is actually a

880
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 12: business model to allow this in this future, and that

881
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 12: in and of itself is fascinating. And then there's this

882
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 12: other layer of Yang himself being adopted into this family

883
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 12: and not really being seen as a quote unquote child,

884
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:19,399
Speaker 12: you know, a real child within that family unit until

885
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 12: after the fact, you know. And that part feels most

886
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 12: directly connected to AI, which they never really frame it

887
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:33,240
Speaker 12: as adoption, but it very much is. And the idea

888
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 12: that the fantasy that it can be as simple as

889
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 12: having this child imprint on you simply because you have

890
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 12: decided to call them your child, and how misguided that

891
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 12: isn't how short sighted and selfish it is. I think

892
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 12: it really opens up a lot of the complex morality

893
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 12: of choosing to adopt, And like I said, that's something

894
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 12: that I wrestle with personally. So in both cases that

895
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 12: really struck me.

896
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think it's very different degrees of kind of

897
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 9: the similar idea of up bringing in an outsider and

898
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 9: thinking that you can just smoothly integrate them into your home.

899
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 9: In Mika's case, it's just a child from another culture

900
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,240
Speaker 9: who they want to have a connection with her culture.

901
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,359
Speaker 9: They want her to speak Mandarin, they want her to

902
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,399
Speaker 9: know fun facts about China. As we keep coming back

903
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 9: to that detail because it's kind of lamp shaded in

904
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 9: the film in a memorable way. It's almost always spoken

905
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 9: as if it's got scare quotes around it. But you know,

906
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 9: she she is being adopted young enough that they could

907
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 9: just raise her in like their own culture and she

908
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 9: wouldn't necessarily know that she was missing anything until she

909
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 9: got older. But in Ai, they're literally adopting something that's

910
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 9: not the same species that they are. They're they're adopting

911
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 9: effectively an alien, an outsider, an elf almost. I did

912
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 9: actually write down on my notes watching it the first time, like, oh,

913
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 9: he's an elf. You know, he's he's inhuman, his emotions

914
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 9: are inscrutable, and he's eternal and they're not, and he's

915
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 9: going to watch them die. So, like, the idea of

916
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 9: bringing the outsider into the family and assuming that they're

917
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 9: going to integrate smoothly is a pretty fraught one on

918
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 9: an emotional level. And in one case, you have a

919
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 9: family that's actively trying to make sure that instead of

920
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 9: assimilating this child, instead of like just melting potting her,

921
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,280
Speaker 9: they make sure that she does have a connection to others.

922
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 9: And in the other there they imprint him in a

923
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 9: way that makes him in some ways incapable of connecting

924
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 9: with anybody except them, you know, with his own culture,

925
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 9: so to speak. You know, he he meets other Mecca

926
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 9: and he spends time with them and even like learns

927
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 9: from them, maybe even feels friendship for them, but his

928
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 9: overriding desire to get to the person he's programmed to

929
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 9: feel for takes over everything else. You know, He's just

930
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 9: he's not capable of being part of the culture that

931
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 9: the meccas have created because he can only care about

932
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 9: the one thing he's been forced to care about.

933
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 12: That's also quite dark. It's a dark movie, Yeah, it is.

934
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 7: And I mean, I mean that's a contra, a contrast

935
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 7: between these films. I don't really see After Yang as

936
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 7: being a dark film. I mean, I almost feel like

937
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 7: being being again. I think a notably optimistic and warm film,

938
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 7: which is like, which is a stephens it would be

939
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 7: expect the Bleaker film to be the Steven Spielberg film.

940
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 8: Do we ever expect that?

941
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 12: Well, it's it's hopeful in a quieter way than I

942
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 12: think we would ever expect of Spielberg, and like it's

943
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 12: sentimental in a quieter way. I mean that last scene

944
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 12: with the singing is pretty That does drive it home

945
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 12: pretty hard. Oh, it does feel like After Yang is

946
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 12: like kind of very deliberately moving us through the stages

947
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 12: of grief so that we end on acceptance and it

948
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 12: feels right.

949
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 9: I think there is just a degree to which AI

950
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 9: is a pretty cynical film about exposing the cracks in

951
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 9: a lot of human culture, whereas After Yang is kind

952
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 9: of a fundamentally idealistic film where there are a lot

953
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,800
Speaker 9: of flaws on display here. There are a lot of

954
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 9: cracks in the family unit. There are lies being told,

955
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 9: there are responsibilities being shirked, but there's just much more

956
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 9: of a sense of everyone being well intentioned in their way,

957
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 9: and ultimately, by the end of the film in particular,

958
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 9: everybody wanting to do right by each other in a

959
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 9: way that I just don't think is present in AI,

960
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 9: or meant to be present in AI.

961
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:46,959
Speaker 8: Yeah.

962
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 7: Maybe I'm I just again a little bit more sympathetic

963
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 7: to some characters in AI. I do feel like there's

964
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 7: some you know, monarch in particular, but even the father,

965
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 7: It's like, this is something that.

966
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 8: They're they're doing is human. It's just not in It's

967
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 8: just not necessarily correct.

968
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 10: I don't see the dad from me eye driving all

969
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 10: over town trying to get David repaired.

970
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 8: If no, I guess not, I guess not.

971
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 7: I mean that, yeah, I mean that was yeah the

972
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 7: dad and AI is definitely looking for a quick, quick

973
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 7: fix here, which is uh, you know, part of the

974
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 7: and then Monica and her you know, correctly reads that

975
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 7: as repulsive and wants this creepy thing out of her

976
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 7: out of her house immediately, this creepy thing that eats, Uh,

977
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 7: pretends to eat meals what he doesn't eat, and pretends

978
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 7: to sleep when he doesn't sleep. Yang much more, chill,

979
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 7: much more, you know, much more. They broke much more.

980
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 7: The android you could live with and Uh then it's

981
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 7: a little a little intense to live without.

982
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 8: His own interest too.

983
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 10: He kind of his butterfly collection.

984
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 7: He's observing things too, like he's picking up. He's just

985
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 7: kind of out, you know. The the images we get

986
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 7: are quite artful in his memory. He's training his mind's

987
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:09,359
Speaker 7: eye towards quite some interesting cinematic things.

988
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,760
Speaker 8: He's got. He's got quite a cinematographer.

989
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 9: Is pov getting back to that sense of well intentioned

990
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 9: versus not well intentioned though, and karting Yang around all

991
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 9: over town in Ai, you have the funnel problem of

992
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:27,359
Speaker 9: Professor Hobby, who is the person who theoretically should be

993
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:32,399
Speaker 9: caring most about David, about his welfare. It's intimated that

994
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 9: David is modeled after his own child, who he lost,

995
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 9: possibly to death, possibly he grew up. It's kind of

996
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 9: deliberately unclear, but clearly there's a very personal connection of

997
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,399
Speaker 9: some kind there. And when he gets David back, he's

998
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 9: just overjoyed. He's delighted, and you get that sense that

999
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 9: maybe David has finally at least come to the hands

1000
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 9: of someone who cares about him as an individual, as

1001
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 9: a person, And instead what you get is somebody who

1002
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 9: immediately or yeah, well okay, so like unpacking that he

1003
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 9: immediately neglects dated, leaving him alone to sit with these

1004
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 9: horrible realizations that he's had to the point where he's

1005
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 9: he's allowed to go commit suicide in despair, while the

1006
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 9: person who has just said, like, we care about you

1007
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 9: so much, we're so excited to see you again, has

1008
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 9: just like abandoned him. He finds out that he is

1009
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:31,439
Speaker 9: a product, that everything that's unique about him is being

1010
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 9: infinitely reproduced and packaged and sold. Hobby is, in theory,

1011
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 9: the person who is supposed to take responsibility, you know,

1012
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 9: the adult to appeal to the authority of who has

1013
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 9: the opportunity to make this into a happy story. You know,

1014
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 9: he's supposed to be the equivalent of the Blue Fairy,

1015
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 9: the person that David can come to to get what

1016
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 9: he needs and maybe have his problems fixed. And instead

1017
00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 9: what he gets is his problems ignored and then exacerbated,

1018
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 9: and then he's he's left alone to die. And as

1019
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 9: dark as that ending is, it's it's still maybe only

1020
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 9: just a hair darker than the fact that this movie

1021
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 9: includes a small child who commits suicide out of despair

1022
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:22,439
Speaker 9: at the the existential horror of life Like It's It's

1023
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 9: a lot, there's.

1024
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 10: Another mystery of that movie, not a sidetrack as too much.

1025
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 10: But but Hobby says he's going to go disappear and

1026
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 10: get the other people who we never see. I mean,

1027
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 10: is it possible that there exists in his head too?

1028
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 10: I mean I don't, I don't you know, he's he's

1029
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 10: alone in that in the building and it's like the

1030
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 10: only the only living boy in New York.

1031
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 9: I guess I assumed they were the team we see

1032
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,479
Speaker 9: in the opening scene, and maybe by go get them,

1033
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 9: he meant, uh, you know, get go, get on the

1034
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 9: Holy Gramatron and tell them to like start arranging their

1035
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 9: trip to to Manhattan. And that's why it takes so long.

1036
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 12: Perhaps so before we leave this connection of adoption, I

1037
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 12: wanted to bring up another element of this, or a

1038
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 12: sub connection, which is the idea that of creating a

1039
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 12: childhood for someone and what that looks like. And Tasha,

1040
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 12: you've already pointed out that David's childhood involves him being abandoned,

1041
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 12: attempted murder, and suicide, among many other horrors. But you

1042
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 12: know that in the first act we do kind of

1043
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:33,439
Speaker 12: get a more domestic vision of what childhood is being

1044
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 12: crafted for David, and it's it's very like awkward and

1045
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 12: like the parents don't seem to know what to do

1046
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,479
Speaker 12: with him, Like the only way that Monica is able

1047
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 12: to connect with him is on sort of like the

1048
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 12: most baseline banal Scott's's like routine elements of childhood, which is,

1049
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 12: as you say, a very important part of it. So

1050
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 12: maybe it's not as mundane or banal as I'm as

1051
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,479
Speaker 12: I'm making out to be. And we've already talked kind

1052
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 12: of in some depth about how in after Yang, Jake

1053
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 12: and Kira have kind of offloaded a lot of the

1054
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 12: raising of Mika to Yang and sort of her childhood

1055
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 12: is very much shaped and informed by him. But I

1056
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 12: do want to highlight again that opening dance number, which

1057
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 12: is like a family activity. I think it's the only

1058
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 12: family activity we see all four of them participating in,

1059
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 12: and if we are to take it as something that

1060
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 12: actually happened and not just a sort of opening credits fantasy. Like,

1061
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 12: I think it is actually very sweet that this is

1062
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 12: like a big worldwide or nationwide I don't know, sort

1063
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 12: of contests like where everyone does a TikTok dance together.

1064
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 12: I don't know, but it does feel like very real

1065
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 12: to like what childhood kind of is today and might

1066
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 12: become in the future, and parents kind of like getting

1067
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 12: on their kids level with entertainment in a way. So

1068
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 12: I think in the context of the childhood that Jake

1069
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 12: and Kira are creating for her, they do it at

1070
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 12: least get a little credit for dancing with her.

1071
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's very pandemic, y.

1072
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, you're a little stir crazy. You're kind of just

1073
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 7: used to being with your little unit and not really

1074
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 7: interacting with other new units except in this virtual way

1075
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 7: where you're all kind of connected. So I guess maybe

1076
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 7: the last connection we should probably get to is a

1077
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 7: connection that is common to so many science fiction stories,

1078
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 7: which is that they kind of tell us what it

1079
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 7: means to be human. And in this case of a

1080
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 7: film like After the Yang, you know, we're breaking it

1081
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 7: down into component parts. We are seeing the pieces of memory,

1082
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 7: for example, the things that these these these sort of

1083
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 7: core elements that kind of construct this character, and we

1084
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 7: get a little bit of that and AI as well, Yes.

1085
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 9: Yeah, I've just come to a place with science fiction

1086
01:01:55,880 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 9: where I think if you scratch any remotely thought science

1087
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 9: fiction story, what you find is a question of what

1088
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 9: being human means. You know, whether it's what about our

1089
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 9: lives are we going to maintain one hundred or five

1090
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 9: hundred or a thousand years from now, Like what's endemic

1091
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 9: enough to humanity that it's going to persist? Or whether

1092
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 9: it's what's what about humanity is going to persist off world,

1093
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 9: you know, in a completely different setting, in maybe a

1094
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 9: horror filled dystopian future setting, or you know, maybe if

1095
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 9: we overcome most of our instincts a sunny or brighter setting,

1096
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 9: like what's going to be the same? And how are

1097
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 9: we how are we different from all of the things

1098
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:41,439
Speaker 9: that we create that look human but aren't or act

1099
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:45,439
Speaker 9: human art And I think fundamentally these stories both ask

1100
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:49,920
Speaker 9: that question in very interesting ways, and one of them

1101
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 9: kind of comes to the conclusion that, you know, human emotion,

1102
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 9: an awful lot of human emotion can be faked, but

1103
01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 9: still it lacks the dimensionality of what it means to

1104
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 9: be human. I think AI comes down to some very

1105
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:07,479
Speaker 9: cynical thoughts about what being human means, as we've talked

1106
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 9: about before, and that's AI comes to some warmer, brighter conclusions.

1107
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 9: But at the same time, maybe acknowledges that artificial humanity

1108
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 9: as possible. If humanity is just a question of curiosity

1109
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 9: and exploration, learning and caring about things, caring about other people,

1110
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 9: being capable of self examination and growth, maybe Yang is

1111
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:38,959
Speaker 9: as human as the actual humans in this story, which

1112
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 9: is something that as sympathetic as David is in so

1113
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 9: many ways, I just don't think it's a place that

1114
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 9: he ever gets to or was intended to get to,

1115
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 9: or that the story wants him to get to.

1116
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 7: Wells Its memory is the key, is the key element

1117
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 7: to me, that that is the key, that constructive kind

1118
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 7: of building block of humanity. And you see it in

1119
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 7: a for Yang, you see it in a film like Memento.

1120
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 7: What is Memento but a film about how about? How

1121
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 7: about this person who's you know, trying to kind of

1122
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 7: kind of construct his his conscience through memory and the

1123
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,800
Speaker 7: way we wait, we can do it in a deceptive fashion,

1124
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 7: but still those are those are the things that we

1125
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 7: kind of have to glom onto in order to to

1126
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 7: be human, and so and so Yang becomes more human

1127
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 7: to us and more human jad Jake as he access

1128
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 7: is able to access the thing. He's not that apple

1129
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 7: or whatever of the future tells him he can't access.

1130
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 7: He's able to access this, this, this memory, and he's

1131
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 7: able to kind of see, oh wow, this is there's

1132
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 7: there's this is a person of substance, this is a

1133
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 7: this is We can think about him as a person,

1134
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 7: not as a machine now because because he's a store

1135
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,840
Speaker 7: of all of these memories, and these memories are taken

1136
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 7: as us as a sum build something, build, build humanity.

1137
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:57,320
Speaker 9: Is it an optimistic thing to believe that memory can

1138
01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 9: build humanity? Is it an optimistic thing to believe that

1139
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 9: humanity is an artificial construct that can be duplicated? I

1140
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 9: don't know, but the movie, I think makes a very

1141
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 9: warm and hopeful gesture in that direction for sure.

1142
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 7: Well, we could go on for again several more podcasts

1143
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 7: about these two movies. So much to unpack here. Hopefully

1144
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 7: our listeners will visit them or revisit themselves. You could

1145
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 7: do so. AI is available widely available on digital streaming

1146
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 7: services and on DVD in Blu Ray. After Gang is

1147
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 7: in limited release and streaming on Showtime. I feel like

1148
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 7: I'm going to have to do some sort of rant

1149
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 7: on that, but that's for another podcast.

1150
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 9: Well, I mean, typically with these things, if it's not

1151
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 9: if it's not disappearing into Apple TV Plus, like this

1152
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 9: is an A twenty four film, and they do often

1153
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 9: make these exclusivity deals, but I expect that in a

1154
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 9: few months it'll be on a widespread digital rental.

1155
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 8: Let us hope that is the case.

1156
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 7: That's it for this edition of the Next Picture Show,

1157
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 7: but we'll be back next week with a new pairing Keith.

1158
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:11,440
Speaker 7: You want to set us up for episodes releasing on

1159
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 7: March twenty ninth and April fifth.

1160
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 5: For our next episodes, we'll be taking two trips into

1161
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 5: the not so nice parts of the nineteen seventies Texas. First,

1162
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 5: we'll revisit Toby Hooper's nineteen seventy four horror classic, The

1163
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 5: Texas Chainsaw Massacre, a film about well a Texas chainsaw massacre,

1164
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 5: but there's a lot more going on in the movie

1165
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 5: than that. Then we'll bring in X, a new horror

1166
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 5: film from ty West that pays homage to Hooper's film,

1167
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 5: but also explores the fears and possibilities at the heart

1168
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 5: of a whole era of disreputable filmmaking.

1169
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 8: We hope you join us for now.

1170
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:44,320
Speaker 7: We welcome your feedback on Ai After Yang and anything

1171
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 7: else film related you'd like to talk about. Email us

1172
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 7: at comments at next pictureshow dot net, and come talk

1173
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 7: to us on Patreon, while you'll find feedback letters and

1174
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 7: discussion for closing out this week's episode. Where can we

1175
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 7: find everyone these days?

1176
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 12: Genivievcoski find me on Twitter at Genevietkowski, and I am

1177
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 12: the TV editor at Vulture dot Com. Tasha, I mostly.

1178
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 9: Hang out Rouge City these days. If you want to

1179
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 9: just like ping me on my calm necklace, we can

1180
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 9: set something up, probably virtual holographic, unless it's set to

1181
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 9: do not disturb, in which case I'm rocking it with

1182
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:24,080
Speaker 9: one of my jiggalobots. If that's the case, you could

1183
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 9: instead look up my work at Polygon dot com, where

1184
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 9: I'm the Film and Streaming editor, or you can come

1185
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 9: find me on Twitter at Tash Robinson Keith. How about you, I.

1186
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 8: Don't feel that's writter.

1187
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 10: You can find my you know, I looked everything on

1188
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 10: my Twitter account, it's K three thousand. You can find

1189
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 10: me at places like GQ, The Ringer, TV Guide, Vulture,

1190
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 10: you know, look for me there. I also have a

1191
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 10: book that'll be out one week from when this episode

1192
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 10: of appears. It's called Age of Cage. Four Decades of

1193
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 10: Hollywood through One Singular careertis about the films and life

1194
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:01,760
Speaker 10: and career of Nicholas Cage. It's available wherever books are sold,

1195
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 10: so if you like, please check it out. Scott, how

1196
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 10: about you?

1197
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:08,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, you can find me on Twitter at Scott Underscore Tobias.

1198
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 7: You can find my work in Keith's work as well

1199
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 7: at the Reveal or.

1200
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 8: Sorry you did forget?

1201
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:16,719
Speaker 7: I thought you were just waiting for me to say

1202
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:18,599
Speaker 7: that you that you do work on this other thing

1203
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 7: with me, And that's the The Reveal dot substack dot com.

1204
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:24,600
Speaker 8: Sign up for a free you can sign up for

1205
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:26,679
Speaker 8: free see what do you think, get a bunch of freestyles,

1206
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 8: get a paid subscription, and you gifted to like five people. Yeah,

1207
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 8: something like that.

1208
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 7: But just just but know that you can check it out,

1209
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 7: you know, don't don't take that first step. It's it's

1210
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 7: you'll be fine, And you can find my work at

1211
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 7: other places like The New York Times, Vulture, Guardian, and

1212
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 7: other fine outlets. You can stay updated on the Next

1213
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,559
Speaker 7: Picture Show at Next Picture Show dot net or on

1214
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 7: Twitter at Next Picture Pod. Get bonus content and open

1215
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 7: discussion at patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show, and

1216
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 7: as always, we appreciate your ratings and reviews on Apple

1217
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 7: Podcasts or wherever you listen to the show. Thanks to

1218
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 7: Dan the Bake Jakes for his assistants producing this podcast.

1219
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 7: The Next Picture Show is proud to be part of

1220
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:09,520
Speaker 7: the Film Spotting family of podcasts.

1221
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 8: Please tune in next time