WEBVTT - Walls 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.680 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:13.840 Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:16.639 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. In 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:20.360 this episode, we're talking about walls, which sounds a little big, 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:23.520 is a big topic because we live in this world 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.800 of walls all around us. We have walls that we've erected, 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:29.880 walls that are physical walls that are made of stone, 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.400 that are made of wood, walls that are legal walls, 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.000 walls that are mental walls that are from those just 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:40.200 of ideas, ideas of legacy, ideas of division, hidden walls, 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.360 the walls naked to the eye, firewalls, censorship. With any 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:47.280 situation with the wall, you have an outsider and you 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:51.319 have an insider. Generally, when we're contemplating walls, were on 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:53.040 one side of the other. I guess it's possible to 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.080 stand on the top of the wall, but that's a 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.320 that's a different situation, a precarious position to be in. Yeah, right, 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:00.720 you don't want to star out of the wall. But 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.640 this is one of the oldest ideas really in human civilization. 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:07.240 But we've been building physical walls to protect cities and 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.360 towns for ages. Walled cities are one of the earliest 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:14.040 symbols of civilization. How do you protect a settlement against 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:18.279 marauders who were using their horses to try and steal 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.640 your agricultural excess? And in fact, the Chinese word for 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:25.759 city and walls is the same chain, which I found 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:29.080 is interesting because that's how that's how important walls were 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.560 in the emergence of cities in Chinese history. Yeah, and 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.200 if you guys haven't already figured out, we are seriously 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:38.920 talking about walls today, like the actual physical structures. One 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:40.520 of the things that I was thinking about is that 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:44.679 walls are these concrete abstractions of what I think of 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:48.720 as maps. Right, This this way to delineate territory, to 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:51.600 try to say my power base is going to be here. 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:54.680 And it's kind of like it's a very interesting way 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:59.360 that we took this abstract notion of ownership and then said, ah, 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.040 we'll show you will put up a wall through our points. 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:03.520 It's like when you're in your back seat with your 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:06.000 sister on a long car ride as a kid. You 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.240 each have a side of the back seat that you're 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.400 supposed to stay on, and your stuff is supposed to 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.040 stay on those sides. But during borders disputes, it becomes 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.040 necessary then to point out exactly where the line is. 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.720 It may become necessary to put some tape down that 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.360 line to market in the physical world, and maybe even 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:28.240 construct a barrier out of luggage or pillows. Yeah, and 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.920 from time to time, though, one might want to show 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:35.040 their might by crossing that border and knocking down luggage 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.360 and making a political statement really about how they feel 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.560 about you humming for three hours in the car, right. Yeah, 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:43.840 And then of course you end up with everything that 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:47.240 has a symbolic power. In human culture, walls take on 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.679 multiple purposes, and I found this particularly a telling. In 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.720 ancient Chinese tradition, you have the city gods cheng hung, 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.640 who protect the moats and walls of towns, so that 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.280 they're important because they're helping protect your very livelihood. Your 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.600 very life and everything you hold dear is protected by 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.040 these walls and moats, and therefore by the deity that 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.440 attends to them. But the chiang Hung also make sure 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:13.480 that the king of the dead doesn't take any souls 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:17.480 away without his permission, And so not only is he 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:19.959 a lord of walls and moats, he's also a lord 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:23.400 of death, and I find that's an interesting just symbolic 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.079 economy thing. What I like about this is that this 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.359 city God are these lords of walls and moats, it's 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.760 another name for them. Uh, there's a bit of bureaucracy 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.000 involved with us, and that they're usually considered to be 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:37.480 the reincarnation of a human being who had been an 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.520 official in earlier times. And the city God was thought 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:45.400 to change every three years, just like a living magistrate 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.920 would change office every three years. And both the magistrate 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:53.040 and the gods hold sway over the same administrative area. 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:57.160 So as you say, you know there's some supernatural areas there, 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:01.600 but there's this expectation that there's formal reverence paid to 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.240 the city God. So in that you see both Chinese 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.320 efficiency but also this very important notion of venerating your 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:11.440 ancestors in culture, combined in this idea that that someone 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.000 was dispatching their souls to the underworld realm. Speaking of China, 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.640 this brings us, of course to the Great Wall of China, 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:19.919 which is when you when you talk about walls, there 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:22.360 are various examples that come to mind. There's the Whaling Wall, 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:26.039 there's the Berlin Wall, there's Hadrian's Wall. There are plenty 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.200 of examples, but the big one the main landers of 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.719 the world is the Great Wall of China. And the 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:34.600 history of the wall is really fascinating because it's easy 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:36.360 to just sort of you've seen a picture of it. 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:38.120 You know what it looks like. You know, it's a 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.359 something to see if you're a tourist in China. But 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:43.719 what is it? What is its history? How is it conceived? 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:48.719 And the wall dates back more than two thousand years 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:52.560 to a time of unification in China, and this is 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:56.520 when you had the Chin dynasty uniting seven warring kingdoms 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:58.520 that's including itself. And if they do that, they have 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.720 all these separate walls that were built by independent kingdoms, 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:06.080 and so dynasty be instiling them together. And the idea 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:10.240 is to protect against marauders, so they can script hundreds 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.480 and thousands of workers. We were talking groups of prisoners, 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:18.200 political enemies, peasants, soldiers, and they worked for ten years 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:22.599 on this project. Thousands upon thousands die, as tends to happen, 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.320 and legend has it that the bones of individuals who 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.720 died constructing the wall are then then become a part 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:30.800 of the wall, making it in some people's words, the 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.000 longest cemetery on earth. Yeah, and much of this is 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:36.960 because this is happening during the Chin dynasty, right, And 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.120 this is again you talked about the neighboring territories that 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.440 were finally united, these little fiefdoms that had a lot 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.720 of strife, but it was united under what I guess 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:50.159 you could say was China's first emperor, because China wasn't 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:53.039 China until this. This guy united them. And when I 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.000 say guy, I mean thirteen year old, and this thirteen 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.600 year old is Chin Chow Wong d He is I 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.479 guess you could say a bit of a megalomaniac. He 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:06.560 begins to actually think about this unification and becomes obsessed 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:12.320 with this idea that demons in these barbarians are going 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:16.159 to take over China. And so that's where he mandates 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.559 this length of the wall to be constructed. And again 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.800 there are bits of construction of these walls throughout these 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.200 thousands of years. But this is the guy who decides 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.080 that it's really important to have from the Gobi Desert 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.800 to the Yellow Sea this fortress. Yes, it's fascinating the 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:35.920 idea that the wall is protecting not only against actual barbarians, 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:38.600 but also against demons, so that it's not just a 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:42.880 military barrier, it's a it's a spiritual barrier as well. Again, 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:44.679 keep in mind with all if this is two thousand 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:48.800 years ago, so this is a time when spiritualism, megalomania 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.800 and abuse of the peasantry we're pretty much in vogue everywhere. 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.640 So so this is, you know, not unique to China 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.880 by any aspect of the imagination, but the idea that 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:02.640 that you're you're protecting against not only things, but against ideas. 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.480 I think he's very telling because we see the symbolic 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:07.960 power of the wall rather overtly, as we'll see in 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.200 various examples of walls. We look at here too, when 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.160 when humans build walls, they're almost always thinking of that 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.520 symbolic power as well, not only to the outsider, and 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:18.880 to the outside or the wall is a clear statement 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.320 of hey, you're not welcome here. You stay on your 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.400 side of the back seat and I'll stay on mine. 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.880 And then to the insider, the wall says I have 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.160 built you a wall. You were protected, you were safe, 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.800 you know. It is saying there is a physical barrier 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:36.000 between you and the things that you were afraid of. 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:38.560 And you can thank me for it. Well, I mean, yeah, 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:41.880 it's very much like the Boogeyman, right. And to this point, 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:46.480 this emperor decided that he wanted the circuitous wall built 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.200 and not a straight path. And the reason is because 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.960 a straight line, in demonology is great for demons because 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.000 they're able to navigate only on straight lines and not 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.840 on curves. So he's gonna make it even more difficult 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:02.960 for these demons by making this this serpentine wall that's 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:04.920 twenty four ft high. And certainly that's one of the 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:08.080 things that's amazing about. Examples of the wall today and again, 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.840 examples of the wall today, as we'll discuss fees are 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.960 the wall has been added to and renovated numerous times 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.320 throughout history, so we're not necessarily talking about the same 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.480 physical wall in the same bricks. But you still see 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:22.400 that shape. It's like a serpent lying across the hills. Yeah, 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:23.960 and it is fascinating because it's one of those things 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.160 that people had long assumed was one big, coherent, linked 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.360 up wall, but in fact it's not. That was one 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:31.920 of the myths. Another myth is that you could see 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.080 this from the moon. Yeah, I see it from space 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.240 and it's it's just not so no, it's not so 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.640 lovely story, but it is lovely. But to go back 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.480 to this emperor and talk a little bit about Chinchu 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:47.680 Woandi and how he treated peasants. You refer to this 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:49.880 as the world's longest cemetery. At least some people have 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.760 talked about this the Great Wall of China being this Again, 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.720 he's sort of indulged in soothsaying and a little bit 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:00.439 of paranoia, and it is said that his sus sooth 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:04.439 sayer told him that the wall would actually never be built, 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.480 which he was mortally frightened of right, because the barbarians 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.800 were gonna come get him in the demons unless ten 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:13.640 thousand men were entombed in the wall. Wow, what what 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.000 sus can you imagine being that guy being on the 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.520 payroll that takes a lot of comments really to you, like, 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.040 you know, this is the message ten thousand You gotta 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.400 you gotta execute them, throw them in there. So Shinchu 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.360 Wonghdi decides, you know what, he's the ruler. He realizes 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.280 that he full well can't just spare that many men, 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:33.280 So he finds a loophole in the form of one 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.000 guy who has the word or the character for ten 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.960 thousand in his name. I guess what his fate is. 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:42.199 He is killed and burying the wall. Yeah, he's tossed 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.640 into the wall. But again there's this idea that this 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:50.920 wall begins to take on meaning of forced labor, being subjugated. 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.400 As you can start to see, peasants are not really 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.319 digging this wall right. The symbolic power to the insider 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.000 is not just an idea of protection, but an idea 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.080 of This is the kind of thing that governments and 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:07.000 rulers create out of your blood. Right. It becomes a 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.160 symbol of oppression and actually is very much a symbol 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:12.560 of that for a long time until we get to 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:14.600 the twentieth century. And we'll talk about that in a moment. 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.840 But let's talk about this as being an imperfect barrier. 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.560 That's the thing. Obviously the wall is important, like we said, 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.040 is an idea of protection, but does it actually offer 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:27.000 protection On one level, you're building these walls often at 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.480 the on the extremes there on the frontier there between 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:34.439 civilization and the barbarians and the demons, so you're having 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.439 to basically establish colonies there. I mean, think of it 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:39.800 in almost in terms of like an off world colony 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.240 kind of a situation. You're having to have soldiers there 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:45.719 that are also growing their own food, and there are 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:49.000 more a part of the frontier than they are of 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.480 the homeland, so they actually end up having some sort 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:56.439 of rapport with the local populations with the barbarians, and 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:00.800 as such are susceptible to bribes. Just here's there are 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:02.280 a few bucks, look the other way up while we 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.600 march an army through and join our army or join 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.640 our army, then that happens as well, So it becomes 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.960 very difficult just to to man and protect it. And 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.400 then you're gonna have gaps as well. For instance, just 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.320 in terms of the wall itself, the wall is not 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:16.959 you might think of the wall as being in this 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.520 NonStop wall that actually sneaks across the entire country, But 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:22.719 there are gaps in it, and there are places where 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.760 just natural barriers are depended on to to serve as 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.320 the wall well, and it has been maintained, so there 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.760 are there are parts of it that are in ruins. 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.800 So you have Genghis Khan or Genghis Khan is he 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.760 some country for two k the big g K he 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.320 brings with him a huge army and martial arts and 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:48.760 a flair for psychological terror, and he reaches the wall. Right, 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.200 and for a good hundred years, the rule of China 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:54.960 comes under Mongol. Yeah, they were the ones in charge 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.240 when Marco Polo visited. That's right, that's right, And so 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.000 Mongols are really taking over. But then in thirteen sixty eight, 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.040 a Chinese peasant leads a rebellion against Mongol rule and 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.520 this helps to establish the Ming dynasty. I only mention 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.280 this because the Ming dynasty is really important and actually 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.760 giving a lot of shoring up to the wall. Yeah, 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.400 this was thirteen sixty eight, and the Ming dynasty looks 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:19.040 at the wall and says, you know, this is something 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:20.679 we need to fix up. You need to get it 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:22.160 going because we don't want to be conquered by the 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:26.080 barbarians again. Right, And with it, they actually are responsible 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:30.480 for architectural embellishments on it and beginning to document various 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:32.959 points in history. So you really begin to see more 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.760 of a coherent picture of the Wall with the Ming dynasty. 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.960 But then here's another thing that happens under man Chew rule. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.360 The wall no longer matters since the land on both 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.079 sides just ruled by Man Chew. When China is invaded 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.920 yet again. Yeah, this is seventeen hundreds, the Manchew invade 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.160 the Ming dynasty. The Man a number of changes to it, 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.840 added to its length, to its width, double and triple 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.480 walls in some places to really reinforce it. But then 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.560 when the Man Chow's invade in seventeen hundreds, it's largely 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.720 abandoned as a military power. It kind of stays that 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.680 way for a while, pretty much the until very recent times. 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:09.559 During that time, the wall crumbles, the wall is looted 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.280 for building supplies because you have all of these stones 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.240 right there are ready to use, and so people carry 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.680 it off to build things that are of actual value 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.319 to their lives because the walls just sitting there, it's 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.559 not even a military factor anymore. And then when Mauston 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.240 comes to power, he encourages Chinese people to use this, 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:28.480 to use the bricks, to use parts of the wall 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:32.079 to build things, and now brings in also this idea 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.160 of the modern you know, part of the cultural revolution, 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:38.120 cultural revolution, and a huge part of it is we're 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.600 going to focus on the modern China and the future China. Yeah, 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:42.760 we're going to obliterate the past. Right, the wall is 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.360 very much a piece of the past, and a piece 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.800 of the past that has still leaves a bad taste 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:49.600 in a lot of people's lives because it is this 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.040 thing build out of their blood. It is this symbol 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:56.520 of the domineering, violent rule. Yeah, it's not the one 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:58.280 of the wonders of the world that we now think 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.439 of it. But this it begins to to recast itself 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.880 in modern times. Right around nineteen four, there's this idea 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.480 that the wall begins to take on national pride, and 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:11.880 they actually say, let us love our country and restore 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.880 our great Wall. This becomes a big mission for them. Yeah, 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.720 you have important foreign heads of state visit. Reagan visits, 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.040 Scorba Chop visits where they go to the Great Wall. 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:23.520 Nixon visits. You know, and as I say, Nixon, who 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:25.680 wasn't he the person who said something like only a 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.800 great people could build this great wall, which starts to 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.840 even then recast its image. Yeah. Luckily he was a 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.200 wall enthusiast. He was all about putting Floyd but this 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.440 wall is in general. So yes, he added to that 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.400 vibe that this was something that was important and worth celebrating. 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.520 And so over the last few decades you see this 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:49.360 increasing restoration of portions of the wall, increased commercialization of 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.280 portions of the Wall. I'm treating. In the Lonely Planet 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:54.640 China Guide, they point out that there are sections of 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.320 the Wall that are just insanely populated. Really, I mean, 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.920 you just have tourists there almost all the time unless 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.440 you go in the dead of winter. Their gift shops, 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:05.440 their tourists, there are people selling things, and I mean 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.280 that's just the way it goes with popular locations. But 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.520 there are still plenty of portions of the Wall that 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:14.680 are not super innovated, that are still beautiful and don't 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.840 have like a restaurant in them. Not that their portions 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:19.640 of the restaurants of them, but you know what I'm saying, 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:21.840 don't have as in them. Yeah, there are places in 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:23.400 China where you can go if you look into it 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.240 and you do the research, where you can get more 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.360 of a serene views the wall as opposed to a 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.080 hyper commercialized version. But it's it's still it's even if 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:33.560 you go to those areas where there are a lot 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.360 of people and there's a lot of commercialization, it's still 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.600 a stunning site. Indeed. All right, we're gonna take a 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:40.120 quick break, and when we come back, we're going to 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.680 move beyond the Great Wall of China and discuss some 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:47.320 more modern examples of walls in our lives, including cosmic walls. 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.520 All right, we're back. So when you think beyond the 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:56.240 Great Wall of China and you think of modern walls, 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.080 what comes to mind? Okay, Well, I mean, you know, 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:00.280 I think about Berlin Wall. I also think about the 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:03.680 Atlantic Wall that Hitler was. I think it's like eight 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:08.360 hundred miles of sea coast, at least in France that 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.440 he had been constructing as a barrier of and and 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.160 a bit of military might. Yeah, the stuff from saving 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:18.360 brabt Ryan of remember that. Yeah. But of course, here 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.000 in the US, one of the most strikingly obvious walls 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.760 is more like a fence. The US Mexico border. Well 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:27.480 we call it offense, but it sure as heck looks 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:31.200 like a wall in many areas. And it's been in 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.920 the news a lot, especially with the conservative primaries leading 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:36.720 up to this year's presidential election. You've had a lot 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:38.320 of people touched on this as a hot is a 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.640 hot topic issue immigration in the United States. A lot 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:42.560 of our listeners are US based, but a lot of 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:46.280 you are based in other countries. US Mexican migrations are 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:49.720 very much on voters minds, especially conservative voters. So you 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.160 have people like Herman Kane, the pizza mogul, who came 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:54.640 out and said we're going to build an electric fence 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:57.400 made out of pizza, not made out of pizza. He 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:00.640 did not rule out alligators, as I remember, so moats 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.440 and walls, and then there were some other half cocked 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.840 ideas that were thrown around by some other candidates, but 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:07.919 it all comes down to this idea of the wall 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.760 right sending this message to Mexico, saying Mexicans are not 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.840 wanted here, and sending more importantly really, because these are 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:19.200 politicians talking about wall building, sending this message to their 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.480 constituents in the US to say we care about what 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.400 you care about so much that we built this thing. 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.520 We're going to erect this giant symbol of what we're 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.600 talking about, even though their YouTube videos of people scaling 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.200 up these things up and over them in seconds, and 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.680 and it's the same situations coming to play that came 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.960 into play with the Great Wall of China. They're gonna 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.600 be gaps. They're gonna be places where care of the 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.760 border is either less maintained or or it is not 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.760 maintained at all. Well, here's the thing. Last year was 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:52.159 the biggest sustained drop in immigration from Mexico to the 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.120 United States, leave to be surpassed and scale only by 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.879 losses in the Mexican born US population during the Great Depression. 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:03.159 So we're actually seeing a drop in immigration to the 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:08.480 United States from Mexico. And much of this is because well, 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.920 first of all, the Mexican cartel are are acting as 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:15.280 border agents on the Mexican border, and they're demanding money, 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:17.760 and sometimes they actually use immigrants as drug mules, so 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.000 it's become far more dangerous as if it weren't already 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:23.639 to try to cross. But also um on the U. 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.439 S side, it's become much more difficult and rigorous in 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.879 terms of trying to prosecute people for for doing this. 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.240 But of course there's been an economic downturn as well, 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:36.800 and also you can factor and changes in legislation in 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.520 some of the southern states that have cracked down on 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:43.440 the use of migrant labor. Right, Yeah, So it is 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.680 one of those things that we wanted to point out 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:49.400 because it is a huge symbolic effort by the United States, 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:53.399 but in terms of efficacy and really getting at the 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.560 what they think, or what the United States politicians think 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.760 is the root problem doesn't isn't really solved by this 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.479 right and and those some people may have giggled at 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:05.760 the idea of building a wall to keep demons at bay. 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:08.280 Like I said, that is just an avert statement of 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.000 what all walls ultimately symbolized, Like even this wall is 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.280 about keeping demons of the mind at bay. To some 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.679 people on the inside, it is a demonization of the 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.560 threats that in a simple vocation of the threats that 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.280 that lie outside and are waiting to get in. It's 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.280 also worth noting, though, that when you build walls or 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.600 fences of this nature, you're building them in environments that 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:32.600 did not previously have barriers, So you're you're going to 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.560 cut into not only the migration of people, but the 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.119 migration of animals. So there have been a number of 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.199 studies that have looked into what effects order fences on 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.240 the US Mexican border have had on migrating animals, and 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:45.919 it doesn't paint a pretty picture, you know, I mean, 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.600 you're altering the psychic and the geographical landscape, right. Yeah, 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:51.919 And it's interestingly mentioned the psychic because that was one 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:53.560 of the things that has also been brought up about 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.560 the Great Wall of China and throughout China's history, that 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:58.800 there were people who thought of it as a disruptor 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.359 of g You know, this is disrupt disrupting the earth energies. 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.120 You're building this unnatural thing that breaks up natural flows 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:08.480 in the environment. Of course, we raise the walls not 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:13.239 only against human and imagined threats, we also raised them 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:17.959 against mother nature. In Japan, the sea walls because as 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.960 an island nation and given its past history with threats 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:22.919 from the sea, you want to be able to mitigate 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.800 that to some degree. Nearly half of the twenty two 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:30.320 thousand mile coast in Japan actually has concrete sea walls, 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.400 which would make sense, right because I mean that there's 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.800 a lot of earthquake activity in that area and you 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.119 would want to have some sort of structure try to 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.880 protect you from really high waves. So there's something very 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.879 practical about it. But some people, the opponents of it, 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.120