1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:56,000 Kelsey Snelling: Listeners please note you’ll hear the word “fat” used a lot throughout this series. Many of our speakers use the word as a neutral descriptor, some of them use it with pride. In this episode, we also mention specific weight and weight loss numbers. This language could be sensitive for some listeners, so please take care. Camp Shane (S-H-A-N-E) is a summer camp much like any other. A tall fence surrounds a sprawling, wooded property, and inside sit all the makings of a great sleepaway camp: A ropes course, a few soccer fields, a swimming pool, and rows and rows of bunks. When you walk the grounds, you’re sure to see kids parading around in tie-dye, counselors thickly coated in sunblock, and you might even hear the unmistakable melody of Reveille. 2 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:03,279 Arielle: So am I saying right? Reverie, Revelie? I don't know. 3 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,840 Arielle: We'd wake up to like patriotic music, like you're a 4 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:07,640 Arielle: military camp? 5 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,720 Kelsey Snelling: Is it the one that's like. That one? 6 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,800 Arielle: Maybe? Yeah. 7 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,920 Kelsey Snelling: After wake up and a bit of breakfast, campers were 8 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,119 Kelsey Snelling: ready to start the day, making memories that would last 9 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:26,959 Kelsey Snelling: a lifetime and experiencing many many firsts. First friendships, first kisses, 10 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:28,000 Kelsey Snelling: first wins. 11 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,920 Arielle: So I had my very first boyfriend, I had my 12 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,000 Arielle: very first kiss during a movie night, and it was 13 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,360 Arielle: just just really really good for my self esteem. For me, 14 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,120 Arielle: it was the best summers of my life. 15 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,600 Nelson: You will make friends at camp that you're closer with 16 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,560 Nelson: than your best friends in the outside world. 17 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:53,080 Kelsey Snelling: But Camp Shane isn't exactly like your average summer camp. Here, 18 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,320 Kelsey Snelling: kids don't eat s'mores at bonfires, there are no popsicles 19 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,240 Kelsey Snelling: on hot July afternoons, and revel signals more than just 20 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,160 Kelsey Snelling: the start of the day. It signals the approach of 21 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:09,119 Kelsey Snelling: a morning workout. At Camp Shane, kids aren't just here 22 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,720 Kelsey Snelling: to make memories and get outdoors. They're here to get thin. 23 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,480 Tyra Banks: Mikey agreed to go to Camp Shane, which is a 24 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,120 Tyra Banks: weight loss camp for young kids. 25 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,320 MSNBC: David Edinburgh has been on the front lines of fighting 26 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,920 MSNBC: childhood obesit for more than forty years as the founder 27 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:24,600 MSNBC: and co owner of Camp Shane. 28 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,720 ABC News: The goal here is to lose up to thirty five 29 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,200 ABC News: pounds in just weeks. 30 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,400 Kelsey Snelling: Camp Shane operated for over fifty years and in that 31 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:37,079 Kelsey Snelling: time was applauded by Tyra Banks, doctor Oz, doctor Phil 32 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,760 Kelsey Snelling: and even Oprah Winfrey. It was featured on MTV, ABC, 33 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:47,240 Kelsey Snelling: the BBC, and in the New York Times. The first 34 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,040 Kelsey Snelling: time I heard about Camp Shane, I was a junior 35 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,720 Kelsey Snelling: in college. My sister had been looking for summer jobs 36 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,240 Kelsey Snelling: and during a frenzied late night research session, pulled up 37 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:04,320 Kelsey Snelling: a wild looking job post New York counselors wanted. I 38 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,360 Kelsey Snelling: didn't even know fat Camp was a real thing, but 39 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,960 Kelsey Snelling: the posting promised an unforgettable summer with top of the 40 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,720 Kelsey Snelling: line activities, all centered around kids who were misfits in 41 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:20,760 Kelsey Snelling: the outside world. Were we intrigued? Absolutely? Were we qualified. 42 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,840 Kelsey Snelling: We hardly knew a thing about weight loss or nutrition, 43 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,440 Kelsey Snelling: and we didn't really have any experience with kids. But 44 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,640 Kelsey Snelling: four months later we were in Ferndale, New York, ready 45 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:39,080 Kelsey Snelling: for Campshane counselor orientation. When I first got to camp, 46 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,560 Kelsey Snelling: I didn't know what to expect on the other side 47 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,600 Kelsey Snelling: of the tall wooden fence that surrounded the grounds. But 48 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,120 Kelsey Snelling: pretty quickly I realized what that fence concealed. 49 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,920 Mark: It checks all the boxes, and it's so easy. You 50 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,480 Mark: send the child, you send your money, they send the 51 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,280 Mark: child back the way it is gone. 52 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,440 Nelson: It's that it's the most fun you'll ever hate. That 53 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,440 Nelson: sums up camp in one sentence. It is the most 54 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:05,440 Nelson: fun you'll ever hate. 55 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:11,720 Stacy: I don't know that I fully understood body shame until 56 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:16,080 Stacy: I went to a fat camp, and it's why it 57 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,400 Stacy: was called camp Shame. 58 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:28,960 Kelsey Snelling: This is Camp Shame. I'm Kelsey Snelling. This is a 59 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,800 Kelsey Snelling: story about fat camp, diet culture, and the heavy price 60 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,159 Kelsey Snelling: of shame. During the production of this series, I spoke 61 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:43,240 Kelsey Snelling: to nearly one hundred people, former campers, counselors, staff and parents. 62 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,200 Kelsey Snelling: Today we'll hear stories from a handful of them. They 63 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,880 Kelsey Snelling: represent campers from the full fifty plus years that Camp 64 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,800 Kelsey Snelling: Shane was an operation. We'll get to know a lot 65 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,240 Kelsey Snelling: of them throughout this season, but for this episode, we're 66 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,640 Kelsey Snelling: going to get to know Camp Shane itself. 67 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:16,320 Camp Shane Media Clip: Hi, I'm David Ettenberg. I'm the director and founder of Camp Shane. And I'm Ziporah Janowski David's wife and a co-director. Camp Shane was founded in 1968 and we are the original longest running weight loss camp anywhere. 68 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,680 Kelsey Snelling: For decades, Camp Shane was marketed as the premier weight 69 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,200 Kelsey Snelling: loss camp for kids and teens. It was the perfect 70 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,960 Kelsey Snelling: place to meet new friends and get outside camp Shane 71 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,640 Kelsey Snelling: had it all, ziplines, arts and crafts, and a fan 72 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,719 Kelsey Snelling: favorite go carts. In addition to fun activities, camp provided 73 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:42,440 Kelsey Snelling: cooking classes and nutrition education from celebrity chefs, as well 74 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,240 Kelsey Snelling: as group therapy to uncover the root causes of Camper's 75 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:51,400 Kelsey Snelling: weight gain. Despite the camp being a huge success, it 76 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,360 Kelsey Snelling: actually got its start as a humble family business. Camp Shane, 77 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,960 Kelsey Snelling: the brainchild of a woman named Selma Ettenburg, was meant 78 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,080 Kelsey Snelling: to be a safe haven for kids, a place to 79 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:09,080 Kelsey Snelling: shed extra pounds without judgment. Selma took out ads and 80 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:15,120 Kelsey Snelling: newspapers across the country and sent out brochures to prospective families. She, 81 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,960 Kelsey Snelling: along with her husband and children, even made house calls 82 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:24,520 Kelsey Snelling: to interested families, armed with VHS tapes, more brochures, and 83 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:29,000 Kelsey Snelling: a pitch for a summer of fun and fitness. David Attenburg, 84 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,200 Kelsey Snelling: whose voice was in that ad you just heard, was 85 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,479 Kelsey Snelling: part of that family, and in the nineteen eighties he 86 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:36,760 Kelsey Snelling: was the camp director. 87 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,880 Seth: David actually came to my house, gave us the whole 88 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,480 Seth: presentation about how the camp was, and you know, all 89 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,280 Seth: the great things, showed me the video everything like that, 90 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,839 Seth: and my parents all. I go, well, why not. 91 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,840 Kelsey Snelling: That’s Seth Kwitko. 92 00:06:54,800 --> 00:07:03,040 Seth: A camper eighty one to eighty five, I've I remember correctly, 93 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,360 Seth: and then I came back as a counselor twice. 94 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,440 Kelsey Snelling: He was about ten years old when he first went 95 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,640 Kelsey Snelling: to the camp, and after the house call, he was 96 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,360 Kelsey Snelling: pretty pumped about going. 97 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,200 Seth: Level playing field, so we have nothing to worry about. 98 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,920 Seth: Everything is going to be cool. They're going to you know, 99 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,160 Seth: they're going to feed us, well, we're going to lose weight, 100 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,240 Seth: We're going to be active. But I felt like it 101 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,400 Seth: was easier to be active or keep up with a 102 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,520 Seth: bunch of kids that were equally overweight. So how bad 103 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:32,000 Seth: could this be? 104 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,600 Kelsey Snelling: That level playing field that Seth talks about was so 105 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,720 Kelsey Snelling: important to the campers. They were in need of a 106 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,680 Kelsey Snelling: place where they could feel at ease, a place where 107 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,480 Kelsey Snelling: they weren't picked last, a place where they were able 108 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,920 Kelsey Snelling: to be more than just the fat kid, because in 109 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:55,200 Kelsey Snelling: the real world, being a fat kid is really hard. 110 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:57,880 Kelsey Snelling: Here's Seth again. 111 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:04,880 Seth: Once I was in skating rink with this girl that 112 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,920 Seth: I kind of liked, and I was kind of showing 113 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:09,960 Seth: off for her. I was probably about ten. 114 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,440 Kelsey Snelling: Seth was trying to be cool and made a bit 115 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,120 Kelsey Snelling: of a scene by messing with a younger kid at 116 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:16,520 Kelsey Snelling: the rink. 117 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,440 Seth: This kid's mother was standing there and the first words 118 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:27,640 Seth: out of her mouth was A fatso And that sort 119 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:32,280 Seth: of took me by surprise, because I would never, never, 120 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,240 Seth: in my life would I say anything to a kid 121 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:34,480 Seth: like that. 122 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,480 Kelsey Snelling: I could never imagine calling someone fat as a way 123 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,839 Kelsey Snelling: to hurt them, let alone a child. Bodies come in 124 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,840 Kelsey Snelling: all shapes and sizes, and there are many reasons why 125 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:56,080 Kelsey Snelling: a person might be heavy. There's stress, genetics, hormones, medications, 126 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:03,640 Kelsey Snelling: trauma responses, metabolic conditions. That's a long list. All that aside, 127 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:08,440 Kelsey Snelling: body diversity is natural, which makes it endlessly disappointing that 128 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,040 Kelsey Snelling: we live in a world where fatness is so demonized. 129 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,840 Kelsey Snelling: When you were a bigger kid in a fat phobic society, 130 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,280 Kelsey Snelling: you learn pretty quickly that the world is not built 131 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,560 Kelsey Snelling: for you. You're judged every time you eat, you can't 132 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:27,320 Kelsey Snelling: fit into desks at school, you're denied access to rides 133 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,880 Kelsey Snelling: at amusement parks, and worst of all, you never really 134 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,400 Kelsey Snelling: feel free in your body. You're always forced to cover 135 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:41,360 Kelsey Snelling: up and lay low just to avoid harassment. For Carl Evans, 136 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,080 Kelsey Snelling: a camper from the two thousands, the judgment he felt around. 137 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:49,319 Kelsey Snelling: His weight soured one of his most beloved activities. As 138 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,079 Kelsey Snelling: a young kid, Carl loved swimming. In his hometown outside 139 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:54,240 Kelsey Snelling: of Chicago. 140 00:09:55,080 --> 00:10:10,280 Carl: There was a swimming club and then there was also like a public pond. You could get a $5 summer pass to swim in. When I was really, really young, you know, kindergarten through like first or second grade, uh, I was like a fish I would spend all day in the summers in these places. 141 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,160 Kelsey Snelling: One summer, Carl went to a birthday pool party with 142 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:14,720 Kelsey Snelling: his brother. 143 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,560 Carl: My brother, he'd make fun of my weight more than 144 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,000 Carl: maybe anyone else in the neighborhood. 145 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,760 Kelsey Snelling: And at this party in particular, Carl remembers. 146 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:40,520 Carl: He just really like laid in and decided to do like a whole standup bit on,you know, even though I'm in third grade, he called 'em man boobs. That was like a real tipping point to, you know, strategic swimming for like the rest of my life. Until Camp Shane 147 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:46,160 Kelsey Snelling: That moment shifted how Carl viewed himself. He started swimming 148 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:51,040 Kelsey Snelling: with his shirt on. As he got older, he sometimes 149 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,680 Kelsey Snelling: used his size to his advantage, like playing high school football, 150 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,160 Kelsey Snelling: but he still wasn't comfortable in his body and Eventually, 151 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,240 Kelsey Snelling: his weight began to impact his health. In his teen years, 152 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,360 Kelsey Snelling: Carl suffered a cardiac emergency that scared him and his family. 153 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,880 Kelsey Snelling: That's when things got serious. After doing some research on 154 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,520 Kelsey Snelling: weight loss camps, his sister found Camp Shane and Carl 155 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:23,520 Kelsey Snelling: enrolled the next summer. The judgment kid's face, especially during 156 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,600 Kelsey Snelling: early development, can stick with them for years, even a lifetime. 157 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,920 Arielle: Where As I remember going to kindergarten orientation and they 158 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,920 Arielle: were giving up cookies and I was so excited. My 159 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:36,920 Arielle: Mom's like she can't eat them, and I just remember 160 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,120 Arielle: feeling shame and embarrassment, like, uh oh, what if other 161 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:41,560 Arielle: people heard? This? 162 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:42,720 Kelsey Snelling: This is Arielle Berger. 163 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,640 Arielle: I went to Camp Shane in nineteen ninety three, ninety four, 164 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:53,640 Arielle: ninety six, ninety eight. I was twelve, thirteen, fifteen, and seventeen. 165 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:54,360 Kelsey Snelling: Good memory. 166 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,160 Arielle: I wrote it down. I took notes. I'm an attorney, 167 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:58,040 Arielle: so I take notes. 168 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,960 Kelsey Snelling: Ariel still Carrie's painful memories from her early childhood, like 169 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:05,200 Kelsey Snelling: her first year at school. 170 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,440 Arielle: I remember even like birthday partisan school, like I would 171 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:09,800 Arielle: always be like, oh, the teacher would be like, oh, 172 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,800 Arielle: you can't participate, Like that's so embarrassing. So there's like 173 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,640 Arielle: this feeling of shame that I even associate like to 174 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:18,680 Arielle: young childhood. 175 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:25,280 Kelsey Snelling: Ariel discovered Camp Shane after seeing their advertisements. Like many 176 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,600 Kelsey Snelling: kids at Camp, Aril came from a Jewish family and 177 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,280 Kelsey Snelling: she was sent to camp ahead of her About Mitzvah, 178 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,199 Kelsey Snelling: the ceremony that marks the time when a Jewish girl 179 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,200 Kelsey Snelling: becomes an adult, many families felt pressure to present their 180 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,760 Kelsey Snelling: kids to the community in the best light, and in 181 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:45,000 Kelsey Snelling: the case of many Shaners, this meant being slim. To 182 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,240 Kelsey Snelling: achieve this, Ariel's mother took drastic steps. This is even 183 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,400 Kelsey Snelling: before discovering Camp Shane. 184 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,760 Arielle: She put a lock on our pantry at one point, 185 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,320 Arielle: and so it's like, what does that say to someone? Right? Like, 186 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,560 Arielle: what do you lock up? I lock up jewelry or money? 187 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,400 Arielle: Why would you lock up food? Like? That made it 188 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,800 Arielle: even more powerful. I think when. 189 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,360 Kelsey Snelling: Locking food away didn't help Aril lose weight, her mother 190 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,120 Kelsey Snelling: introduced her to some of the late eighties and early 191 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,160 Kelsey Snelling: nineties most popular diets and diet. 192 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,840 Snackwells Ad: Foods, snack wells, chocolate sandwich cookies so good can we 193 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:21,640 Snackwells Ad: ever make enough? 194 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,240 Kelsey Snelling: The snackwell cookies that claimed to be low fat, accomplished 195 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,920 Kelsey Snelling: this by adding additional sugar, which is true of almost 196 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,800 Kelsey Snelling: all low fat diet foods. 197 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,880 WOW Chips: Introducing new lays Wow Potato chips. They taste just as 198 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,360 WOW Chips: good as regular Lays, and because they're made with a lane, 199 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,199 WOW Chips: they're half the calories and one hundred percent fat free. 200 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:44,840 Kelsey Snelling: In the late nineties, Freedom Lay introduced Wow Chips, fat 201 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,640 Kelsey Snelling: free versions of some of their best known chips like Lays, 202 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,520 Kelsey Snelling: Pringles and Doritos. 203 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,000 Arielle: Something in it was essentially a laxative. You would eat 204 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,360 Arielle: it and you would instantly get a stomach ache and 205 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,360 Arielle: go to the bathroom. So it's like, hey, it's a 206 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,040 Arielle: win win. I just ate a whole bag of Doletos 207 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,079 Arielle: and I went to the bathroom. Five days were the 208 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,640 Arielle: bathroom for one day. It was like the crazy thing. 209 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,200 Kelsey Snelling: Those Wow chips were required to carry a warning and 210 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,160 Kelsey Snelling: were eventually taken off the market altogether. And then there 211 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,760 Kelsey Snelling: was weight Watchers, which got it started in the early 212 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,440 Kelsey Snelling: nineteen sixties as a weekly support group. 213 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,280 Weight Watchers Ad: Weight Watchers new nineteen eighty eight Quick Success program is 214 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,040 Weight Watchers Ad: helping people lighten up. 215 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,960 Arielle: In fact, I started at weight Watchers at seven, so 216 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,400 Arielle: I knew at seven years old, which is insane. At seven, 217 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,240 Arielle: I knew how many you know? Calories? Ornogram of protein, 218 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,080 Arielle: fat carbohydrate. It was like this. 219 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:47,360 Kelsey Snelling: Obsession the fat diets didn't help Ril or anyone really 220 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,680 Kelsey Snelling: get thinner. In fact, the focus on weight only made 221 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:56,000 Kelsey Snelling: her feel worse. All this pressure to be thin puts 222 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,840 Kelsey Snelling: kids at a high risk for depression, anxiety, and unhealthy 223 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,960 Kelsey Snelling: relationships with food and their bodies. Here's Seth again. 224 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,080 Seth: No one really thought about the long term effects. And 225 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,600 Seth: rather than positive reinforcement fostering that you know, eat well 226 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,520 Seth: and you'll live a long time, it's don't eat you know. 227 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,000 Seth: It is the negative reinforcement rather than the positive reinforcement. 228 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,480 Seth: I can't blame my parents for that. 229 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,240 Kelsey Snelling: So when all of those attempts failed, Camp Shane felt 230 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:26,680 Kelsey Snelling: like a miracle solution. 231 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,680 Camp Shane Ad: Located in the heart of the beautiful Catskills Mountain's, Camp 232 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,640 Camp Shane Ad: Shane is the oldest weight loss camp in the country. Come 233 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,400 Camp Shane Ad: spend some time with us, make new friends, get into shape, 234 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,080 Camp Shane Ad: and experience a summer that will change your life. 235 00:15:47,400 --> 00:16:00,240 Kelsey Snelling: But first you had to get to Shane. To get 236 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,960 Kelsey Snelling: to Camp Shane, campers had to first traverse the roads 237 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,680 Kelsey Snelling: of upstate New York. Some kids, like Seth, had their 238 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,240 Kelsey Snelling: parents drop them off, but many who flew into New 239 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,080 Kelsey Snelling: York city from around the country had to take a 240 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:19,440 Kelsey Snelling: cramped and crowded bus. After two hours of state roads 241 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:24,160 Kelsey Snelling: and thousands of trees, a glimmer of civilization would appear 242 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:29,680 Kelsey Snelling: through the foliage, a strip of fast food restaurants. Here's 243 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,960 Kelsey Snelling: Nelson Jancaterino, a former camper and counselor from Alabama. 244 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,520 Nelson: And I remember pulling off on that exit and seeing 245 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,640 Nelson: like McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, and Taco Bell, I think, 246 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:43,800 Nelson: and all the kids were like, oh, oh my god, 247 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,560 Nelson: I want Taco Bell, I want Burger King, I want 248 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,720 Nelson: blah blah blah, like screaming, and like, I think the 249 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,080 Nelson: bus driver would like kind of like pretended like he 250 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:52,440 Nelson: was going to turn left. 251 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,640 Kelsey Snelling: And that was the last time most kids saw McDonald's, 252 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,000 Kelsey Snelling: but not the last time they thought about it, because 253 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,879 Kelsey Snelling: just beyond this oasis of tasty, high calorie goodness was 254 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:11,399 Kelsey Snelling: Camp Shane. Two worn totem poles welcomed to rivals to 255 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,800 Kelsey Snelling: the property. On the inside, forty two acres of lush, 256 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:21,040 Kelsey Snelling: green forest and hilly terrain were freckled by cabins, sports fields, 257 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:25,200 Kelsey Snelling: and a few large buildings for gatherings. At the base 258 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:30,320 Kelsey Snelling: of a notoriously steep hill sat the cafeteria. The whole 259 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,000 Kelsey Snelling: design was a bit of evil genius. Walking around campus 260 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,320 Kelsey Snelling: was a cardio session itself, but struggling up and down 261 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:42,000 Kelsey Snelling: the hill was an added workout. Kids tested various strategies 262 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:46,399 Kelsey Snelling: like zigzagging, walking backward, and even rolling down just to 263 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,600 Kelsey Snelling: get to breakfast. Ask any Shaner and they'll tell you 264 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:54,320 Kelsey Snelling: right away. The hill was absolutely iconic in its heyday. 265 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,480 Kelsey Snelling: The camp's reputation was so respected and well known that 266 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,920 Kelsey Snelling: a few celebrities even sent their kids to camp. Tommy Mottola, 267 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,000 Kelsey Snelling: Stephen Tyler, and Michael Bolton were just some of the 268 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:12,160 Kelsey Snelling: famous parents who trusted Shane with their children. Here's Nelson again. 269 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,639 Nelson: The really rich parents that would come in like limousines, 270 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,960 Nelson: and you had like a I think one summer Mike 271 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,280 Nelson: Tyson's daughter was there and he showed up in a 272 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,640 Nelson: helicopter and like landed on the field. 273 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,440 Kelsey Snelling: A helicopter landing is pretty cool, but so was having 274 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:27,840 Kelsey Snelling: a child star as a neighbor. 275 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:37,720 Arielle: Shaun Weiss was there and this Shaun Weiss from Mighty Ducks. He was a legend at camp, like the coolest 276 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,920 Arielle: kid at camp. You wanted to know him, talk to him. 277 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,400 Arielle: He walked around like he owned the camp. And then 278 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,000 Arielle: one year they even played Mighty Ducks that movie night. 279 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,399 Arielle: It was like having Bradley Cooper walk around. It was crazy. 280 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:57,879 Kelsey Snelling: Despite celab popularity, Camp Shane was actually quite rustic. The 281 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,240 Kelsey Snelling: buildings were humble and bare bone, and the grass was 282 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,840 Kelsey Snelling: often unmowed. Kids were out in the woods in cabins 283 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,960 Kelsey Snelling: with no air conditioning or TV, and it didn't matter. 284 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,040 Kelsey Snelling: Camp was the perfect bubble, a community of chubby children 285 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:21,159 Kelsey Snelling: who were finally free to be themselves. Remember Carl, the 286 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,520 Kelsey Snelling: boy who was bullied by his brother at a pool party. 287 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,919 Kelsey Snelling: Years later, he was still uncomfortable swimming around others, but 288 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,800 Kelsey Snelling: at Camp Shane he had a revelation. After spending time 289 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,480 Kelsey Snelling: in the hot sun, many Shaners looked forward to a 290 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,120 Kelsey Snelling: dip in the cool water. Carl was worried about swimming, 291 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,440 Kelsey Snelling: but this wasn't the outside world. Here's how Carl remembers 292 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:42,960 Kelsey Snelling: that moment. 293 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,400 Carl: We had pool on schedule and I come down there 294 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,600 Carl: and some of the guys are walking down to the 295 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,000 Carl: pool without shirts on. They just got their trunks and towel. 296 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,679 Carl: That was pretty radical in and of itself, But when 297 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,040 Carl: I got to the pool, it was another one of 298 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,560 Carl: the veteran guys. He totally saw it. He's like, take 299 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,240 Carl: your shirt off, and I was like, I will, and 300 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,240 Carl: he's like, we're all here for the same reason, baby, 301 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,280 Carl: and he and I took my shirt off, and the 302 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,800 Carl: sense of liberation of like I mean, I really mean it, 303 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,199 Carl: like it was like lightning and thunder crackling. Because I 304 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,359 Carl: didn't jump in the pool took it off. I just 305 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,120 Carl: stood there and looked around and like you could feel 306 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:28,640 Carl: the breeze. It was a sunny day, and minus will 307 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:33,359 Carl: have been like a Christening emancipation, you know, doves flying 308 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,600 Carl: off kind of a thing, because that was the first 309 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,440 Carl: like gigantic boulder. I took that shirt off and didn't 310 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,639 Carl: jump in the pool and just sat there in myself. 311 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:51,320 Kelsey Snelling: That feeling is why Carl eventually became a counselor. Kids 312 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,040 Kelsey Snelling: at Camp Shane could find a sense of security and 313 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,600 Kelsey Snelling: even pride in themselves. 314 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,280 Seth: I would be walking on the campgrounds and the girls 315 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:02,760 Seth: it was like G nine through twelve that I'd be 316 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,199 Seth: walking by and all of a sudden I'd hear Hi 317 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,840 Seth: Seth from thirty Girls, And of course that made me 318 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,040 Seth: feel good, but it was certainly an ego booze. 319 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,399 Arielle: Part of it was like really good for your self esteem. 320 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,399 Arielle: Like for me, like I said, everyone's like, oh, she 321 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,840 Arielle: has such a pretty face, but now I was just oh, 322 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:22,679 Arielle: she's just pretty. 323 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,240 Kelsey Snelling: There were so many people there who accepted and encouraged campers. 324 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,040 Kelsey Snelling: Here's Nelson again. 325 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:41,919 Nelson: I was good at soccer, it was really good. But I would get picked last because I was heavy. But then at camp, like, I'm the Pele, I'm like the star soccer player. Mm-Hmm. . Um, so much so that like, and when I was older, like the counselors wanted me to play on, like, I played on their counselor team. 326 00:21:41,480 --> 00:22:01,560 Kelsey Snelling: Despite wanting to lose their “fat”, the F word (f-a-t) was used with pride at Camp Shane. The counselors and staff made light of fatness, which was a refreshing change of pace from the shame so many campers had carried in the past. Here’s Seth again! 327 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,280 Seth: the way trainer counselor. And he's one counselor who will 328 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,679 Seth: always stand out to me because for one of the 329 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,879 Seth: talent shows, he actually had a bunch of We had 330 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:18,200 Seth: all the campers from our cabin. You know, regardless of size, shape, whatever, big, small, 331 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,880 Seth: you know, fat, skinny, whatever the case may be. And 332 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,959 Seth: we went up there and we did, like Arnold Schwarzenegger, 333 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,920 Seth: mister Olympia posing. We actually oiled up with baby oil. 334 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:34,720 Seth: We went up there, chunky, skinny, whatever the case may be, 335 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:39,200 Seth: and we were posing, and the camp went absolutely insane. 336 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,240 Seth: And he was one of these guys that again just 337 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,600 Seth: just saw us as kids and wanted us to have 338 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,919 Seth: a good time and feel good about ourselves. 339 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,040 Kelsey Snelling: Camp was a respite kids gained confidence in their new home, 340 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:03,000 Kelsey Snelling: but it wasn't all friendship, bracelets and koumba. Don't forget 341 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,480 Kelsey Snelling: the camp's main goal was weight loss. Despite being free 342 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,920 Kelsey Snelling: from the school bullies, homework, and social hierarchies, the one 343 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,680 Kelsey Snelling: thing that carried over from the outside world at camp 344 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:21,760 Kelsey Snelling: was dieting. According to newspaper articles and former campers, Camp 345 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,880 Kelsey Snelling: Shane served a strict diet that ranged anywhere between twelve 346 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,280 Kelsey Snelling: and fifteen hundred calories. Meals could include a breakfast of 347 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,480 Kelsey Snelling: two French toasticks or cereal, maybe a sloppy Joe lunch, 348 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,800 Kelsey Snelling: perhaps a small chicken dinner. Kids were also given two 349 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,879 Kelsey Snelling: snacks a day, a piece of usually bruised fruit, a 350 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,520 Kelsey Snelling: cup of cottage cheese or a small bag of chips. 351 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,960 Kelsey Snelling: Campers were also kept busy, with six to seven activity 352 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,959 Kelsey Snelling: periods daily, each lasting about an hour. The small portions, 353 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,680 Kelsey Snelling: paired with excessive exercise naturally resulted and kids losing weight 354 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:07,560 Kelsey Snelling: like a lot of weight, and really really fast. 355 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,159 Seth: A kid who weighs one hundred eighty pounds should not 356 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,800 Seth: be down to one hundred and fifty in eight weeks. 357 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,040 Seth: It's not healthy. 358 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,960 Kelsey Snelling: The Camp Shane diet was not only minimal, but it 359 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,520 Kelsey Snelling: was pretty much the same for everyone. Seven year old 360 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,800 Kelsey Snelling: girls were fed the same as sixteen year old athletic boys, 361 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,679 Kelsey Snelling: and that low end of twelve hundred calories, while not 362 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,679 Kelsey Snelling: suitable for even the youngest kids, was definitely below the 363 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:41,720 Kelsey Snelling: recommended caloric intake for teens. Teen girls should consume at 364 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,360 Kelsey Snelling: least twenty two hundred calories a day, for teen boys 365 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,080 Kelsey Snelling: twenty five hundred calories. 366 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,119 Seth: Because it was like a one size fits all, I mean, 367 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:56,040 Seth: someone who was like me, who was maybe thirty pounds 368 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,679 Seth: overweight but was active, was eating the same amount as 369 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,919 Seth: someone who was one hundred pounds and inactive. That was 370 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:08,639 Seth: a problem. It doesn't lead to sustaining this weight loss. 371 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:14,080 Kelsey Snelling: However, there were some exceptions in the early years, when 372 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,040 Kelsey Snelling: a camper dropped enough weight, they were allowed back in 373 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,760 Kelsey Snelling: the chow line for second helpings as a way of 374 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,000 Kelsey Snelling: maintaining their new body. That is, if the kitchen happened 375 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,200 Kelsey Snelling: to have leftovers from that meal. 376 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,720 Seth: So you could be on like single bubble triples, so 377 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,040 Seth: you'd be like they put you on breakfast, whether they 378 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,280 Seth: put you on lunch, maintenance or dinner, or they put 379 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,640 Seth: you on all three, depending on how much weight you lost. 380 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,879 Seth: When they figured that you hit some certain level, they 381 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,359 Seth: would not want you to lose more weight. 382 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:50,080 Kelsey Snelling: Eventually, those small portions and hours long workouts got to campers. 383 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,240 Kelsey Snelling: They were hungry, tired, and at times a little unruly. 384 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,960 Kelsey Snelling: Desperate times call for desperate measures, and campers got creative. 385 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:01,720 Kelsey Snelling: Here's Aril. 386 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,840 Arielle: But when we had skim milk, kids were like guzzling it, 387 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,320 Arielle: so they had to stop. I think we had a 388 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,679 Arielle: salad bar one year without the dressing. The dressing like 389 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,879 Arielle: was very small or it was like a fat free dressing. 390 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,320 Arielle: And then they used to have ketchup and mustard on 391 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,680 Arielle: the tables for like hot dog Day or Hamburger Day, 392 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,720 Arielle: and kids were like drinking in the ketchup. There were 393 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,120 Arielle: crab apple trees, and every year and crab apples are 394 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,920 Arielle: like poison. Every year, inevitably a kid would eat a 395 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,280 Arielle: crab apple and go to the nurse and get sick. 396 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,880 Arielle: But it was like sort of like this like horrible joke. 397 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,399 Arielle: There's apples all around and you can't eat it. It 398 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,080 Arielle: was like very uh Bible esque. 399 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,719 Kelsey Snelling: And the more campers were restricted, the more powerful food became. 400 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,480 Kelsey Snelling: Remember those fast food restaurants the kids passed on the 401 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,439 Kelsey Snelling: way to Shane. Yeah, the kids remembered too, and created 402 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,480 Kelsey Snelling: a system to get food into camp. 403 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,320 Arielle: So there was like one hole the fence by like 404 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,320 Arielle: where the go karts are. They're like, if you deliver 405 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,719 Arielle: to this hole in the fence, and they give them 406 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,719 Arielle: like exact directions of where to pull up what they 407 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,280 Arielle: would see across. They're like, if you delivered to this hole, 408 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,480 Arielle: we're going to give you a two hundred dollars cash tip, 409 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,639 Arielle: but only if you delivered to this hole in the fence. 410 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:24,000 Arielle: And they did, and the entire cabin smell like Chinese food. 411 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,040 Arielle: There was like low main everywhere. They ordered like like 412 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,280 Arielle: five hundred dollars worth of Chinese and the entire cabin 413 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,080 Arielle: ate it. 414 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,680 Kelsey Snelling: The fence trick was so successful, campers continued the tradition 415 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,120 Kelsey Snelling: for years, and sneaking around at night became so common 416 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,880 Kelsey Snelling: counselors had to patrol the grounds around the clock. When 417 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,680 Kelsey Snelling: that became too much for staff, the camp brought in reinforcements. 418 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:51,359 Kelsey Snelling: Here's Nelson again. 419 00:27:51,720 --> 00:28:18,240 Nelson: We had Matoush, the notorious Polish Night Watchman He scared the outta everybody. 'cause he was, we thought he was a vampire. Like, he just was like, like kind of wandering around. And he was there at night and he was like, fast. He was so fast. He looked like Drago from Rocky IV or whatever. Just massive.Just like, you're out. Like, and at night we're not supposed to. And you see like a, you see a quick flash of light and next thing you know, you turn around and he is like, get back to your bunk what are you doing out? 420 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,000 Kelsey Snelling: But a giant Polish vampire wasn't enough to curb a 421 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,280 Kelsey Snelling: Shaner or appetite, and the camper has found other ways 422 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:30,040 Kelsey Snelling: to get food. Ariel remembers the year the more entrepreneurial 423 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:31,800 Kelsey Snelling: kids set up a black market. 424 00:28:32,880 --> 00:29:02,480 Arielle: So the boys in B12 they got a foreign counselor to somehow get almost like, like a Sam's or Costco size thing of M&Ms. And I remember there were $5 in the black market and this was like in the early nineties, $5 a pack for one like 50 cent package. It used to be back then. So the M&M cartel of B12 was like this huge thing and you could tell who's the boss and who's the muscle. I'm telling you this is like Rico, this is like the sopranos of Camp Shane. 425 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,720 Kelsey Snelling: Campers obviously couldn't eat their contraband goodies out in the open. 426 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,560 Kelsey Snelling: They had to find more unique places to snack. 427 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:31,440 Arielle: And I got back to my cabin that night and I went into the bathroom and I was eating M&Ms in the toilet. So yes. Is it disordered eating? Yes. So I'm eating M&Ms in the toilet. And I remember someone in my cabin's, like, I smell chocolate. And I was like, uh, how is this? Is this like a bloodhound? What the hell's going on? 428 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,040 Kelsey Snelling: The bathroom also became Ril's go to spot for hiding 429 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,760 Kelsey Snelling: Campshane's most coveted contraband item, gum. 430 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,560 Arielle: So you couldn't have your stash in one spot and 431 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,840 Arielle: there was one year. I was so smart. I thought 432 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,360 Arielle: I had a bunch of gum and I put it 433 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,520 Arielle: in like four ziploc bags so it was completely air tight. 434 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,800 Arielle: I opened up the top of the back of the 435 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:04,320 Arielle: toy toilet and that gum went in the top of 436 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,880 Arielle: the toilet and it lasted the whole summer. That was 437 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,520 Arielle: my best stash, absolute best dash. 438 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:54,440 Kelsey Snelling: Sneaking food, black market candy, and generally finding creative ways to break the rules are time honored traditions at camp. And these stories take on mythical proportions summer after summer. But they also take on a different hue when you remember, this is a weight loss camp. A place designed around how much kids weigh. This hyper-focus on food turned stashes like Arielle's into power. Seth remembers you could trade for favors, and you could use it to bet. 439 00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:11,560 Seth: It's almost like when inmates use cigarettes to, to gamble. It was like we were using the hottest commodity in camp, and that was food. It was became institutionalized. It just boggles my mind. That became a, a currency, food should not be a currency. 440 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,720 Kelsey Snelling: And speaking of prison, whenever Shaners were off campus, they 441 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,480 Kelsey Snelling: were forced to wear bright orange t shirts. Camp Shane 442 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,720 Kelsey Snelling: would sometimes offer field trips for campers, like a day 443 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,440 Kelsey Snelling: in New York City or an afternoon at the water park. 444 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,360 Kelsey Snelling: The bright colors made kids easier to spot in a crowd, 445 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,959 Kelsey Snelling: and more importantly, it helped Shaners stick to their diet. 446 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,680 Kelsey Snelling: Local vendors were told explicitly not to sell food to 447 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:45,200 Kelsey Snelling: anyone in an orange shirt. It was extreme, but there 448 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,800 Kelsey Snelling: were no days off from the Shane diet. This included 449 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,240 Kelsey Snelling: visits to nearby camps for inner mural tournaments. To prevent 450 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,560 Kelsey Snelling: kids from cheating on their diets, the counselors packed Shane 451 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:02,840 Kelsey Snelling: specific lunches that they ate in Shane designated areas Camp Shane. 452 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:23,400 Arielle: Camp Shane, we had to travel with our own food. We couldn't even get Gatorade, we had to have water. Um, and they would give us these sandwiches. They packed these sandwiches. So it would literally be this soggy sandwich with a slice of cheese and a slice of tomato and maybe a slice of lettuce and that is what you would eat. We'd be outside with our pathetic sandwiches. 453 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,160 Kelsey Snelling: Yep, the Shaners had to sit on the ground outside 454 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,600 Kelsey Snelling: of the cafeteria. It didn't matter how well the kids 455 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,600 Kelsey Snelling: played that day or how confident they felt the night before. 456 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,080 Kelsey Snelling: In an instant, they were back to being the fat kids, 457 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:44,360 Kelsey Snelling: very hungry fat kids, and when an opportunity arose for food, 458 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,080 Kelsey Snelling: you better believe they pounced. 459 00:32:48,000 --> 00:33:49,240 Arielle: So like a little boy in Camp Echo, I guess was like playing outside. And he had a magnifier and he was zapping ants. It was really hot out, the sun was really bright. So he ended up setting some leaves on fire. It wasn't a big fire, but still it was enough to make the fire alarm go off. So the fire alarm went off. Everyone's running out. Well, the camp Shame boys were outside and literally when everyone started running out and it was chaos, they ran into the cafeteria. And they just start grabbing whatever they can, eating plates that were left on the table, going up to whatever food line, but like just grabbing as much food. And at this point, because everyone was, it was chaos, everyone was running around. They were just in there eating, eating. And the counselors were like, there's a fire Get out. And it took like the Camp Shane counselors had to bring Echo counselors in to get the kids out. And it was just crazy. It just like describes what Camp Shane was like. 460 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,920 Kelsey Snelling: Camp Shane was a dysfunctional sanctuary, a place that preached confidence, 461 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,840 Kelsey Snelling: get celebrated campers for changing their bodies home away from home, 462 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,560 Kelsey Snelling: that worked kids to the bone. As one former camper 463 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:06,440 Kelsey Snelling: described it to me. 464 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:18,400 Mark: The camp works. The kids lose weight. So I think that Oprah, Tyra, whomever, when they look at this camp, they see a bunch of kids that go in heavy and they come out thin and they're not asking any other questions. 465 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:25,359 Kelsey Snelling: But someone should have asked questions. In twenty twenty one, 466 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:30,560 Kelsey Snelling: a few weeks into the summer season, Camp Shane suddenly closed. 467 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,399 Archival: Camp closed, parents left scrambling. The state is now investigating 468 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:35,440 Archival: the sudden closure. 469 00:34:36,320 --> 00:35:39,680 Kelsey Snelling: Newspapers, TV stations, and even Bloomberg Businessweek rushed to cover what turned out to be a shocking twist of events. What happened to Camp Shane? How could a beloved, celebrity-endorsed camp that made millions in profits, just close its doors with no explanation? With no promise of returning? What I saw when I was at Camp Shane stuck with me for years. And I struggled for a long time with what I should do about what I’d experienced.. Part of me wanted to call the cops. The other part of me thought maybe I was being dramatic. But every time I tried to forget about Shane, something would pull me back. I started interviewing other Shaners. Not just from my time there but dating back all the way to the beginning of the camp itself. I wanted to understand how a place designed to help kids turned out to be so toxic, and how it came to such an abrupt end. 470 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:46,640 Kellye: There was no guidance. It was more or less throw a bunch of kids at a place, call it a fitness camp by starving 'em. 471 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,720 Pamela: It was something. It was something out of a horror movie. 472 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:53,640 Pamela: Nothing about that camp was right. 473 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:55,880 Seth: What I didn't know at the time, though, was that 474 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:56,840 Seth: he was grooming me. 475 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,400 Mark: this experience. It still haunts me. 476 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,120 Kelsey Snelling: Yet none of those things would be the end of camp. 477 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:06,080 Kelsey Snelling: Until 478 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,040 Seth: there were campers leaving or counselors were leaving. Kids were 479 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,560 Seth: getting sick, kids were getting hurt. They shut the camp down, 480 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,960 Seth: and I figured if they were shutting it down that summer, 481 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,160 Seth: they probably weren't going to come back. 482 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,120 Kelsey Snelling: And what were you feeling when you saw this or 483 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:26,160 Kelsey Snelling: heard about this. 484 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:50,239 Seth: This can't be used against me in a court of law. Okay. No.a little schadenfreude, you know? Good. Right. I'm glad. But at the same time, I was, I, I, I said to myself, man, I wish that was me. I mean, yes, they got their comeuppance and they got their punishment. I would've felt good if, if I was the one who caused that to happen. 485 00:36:53,000 --> 00:38:14,360 Kelsey Snelling: This is Camp Shame. We reached out to David Ettenberg and his wife Ziporah Janowski for comment; at the time of this recording we have not received a reply Camp Shame is a production of iHeartPodcasts. I’m your host, Kelsey Snelling. Camp Shame is produced by Brittany Martinez, – Taylor Williamson–, Sara Schleede, Luci Jones and Aylia Yates Grau. Our Editor is Courtenay Hameister. with additional Editorial support from Lindsey Kratochwill and Grace Lynch. Our executive producers are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rudder and me, Kelsey Snelling. For iHeartMedia, our executive producer is Cristina Everett. Fact checking done by Madeline Goore, Luci Jones, Paloma Moreno Jimenez, Lauren Williams and Fiona Pestana. Our theme music is produced by Sean Petell. Special thanks to Loren Moffett, Naomi Harvey, Jenell Manzi, Ben Wong, Travis Prow, and Stephanie Malson. Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @CampShame – that's with an M!-- If you or anyone you know went to Camp Shane reach out with your camp stories