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Speaker 1: Rivals as a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and

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Speaker 1: feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and

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Speaker 1: I'm Jordan's and welcome to the second of our three

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Speaker 1: part series on Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. Today we're

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Speaker 1: gonna focus on Steven Stills, the unofficial musical director in

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Speaker 1: the band's early CSN days and in later years he'd

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Speaker 1: be the chief aggressor as he struggled with this old

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Speaker 1: Buffalo Springfield band main Neil Young to maintain its dominance.

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Speaker 1: They're basically the US and Russia of the c s

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Speaker 1: N Y called War Dynamic. Yeah, you know, I mentioned

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Speaker 1: this in our first episode in this series, but like

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Speaker 1: I remember you said that David Crosby is your favorite

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Speaker 1: member of the band, and I have to say that

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Speaker 1: for me, like my favorite is Steven Stills, at least

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Speaker 1: of like the non Neil Young members. Like I feel

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Speaker 1: like you have to distinguish Neil Young from like the

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Speaker 1: rest of the band. I mean, Neil is definitely the biggest,

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Speaker 1: but in terms of just like the rest of the guys,

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Speaker 1: I'm a genuine fan of Steven Stills. I think again,

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Speaker 1: outside of Neil Young, he's the best songwriter, the most

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Speaker 1: talented musician, and the most charismatic and people forget that

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Speaker 1: in many ways, Like CSN was his baby in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: like that first album, you know, the iconic record where

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Speaker 1: it's him and Graham Nash and David Crosby sitting on

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Speaker 1: that couch in the house, and I think that's still

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Speaker 1: like my favorite record like to come out of this

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Speaker 1: collective like that was Steven Stills is like work, like

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Speaker 1: he played most of the instruments. He was, as you said,

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Speaker 1: the musical director of the band, and he wrote like

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Speaker 1: many of the best known songs like Sweet Judy, Blue

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Speaker 1: Eyes and Helplessly Hoping those are all Steven Stills songs,

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Speaker 1: and his ambition like really fueled this group at the beginning. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel like Stills has been really overshadowed in recent years.

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Speaker 1: And maybe it's because Nash tours some months and he

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Speaker 1: has his memoir and crosses so prolific in the studio

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Speaker 1: and on Twitter, and Neil Young is Neil Young. But

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Speaker 1: I feel like Still's, you know, was the main reason

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Speaker 1: for these guys coming together, and he's the lynch pin

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Speaker 1: of the sound in so many ways, and he just

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Speaker 1: kind know, I feel like he gets forgotten sometimes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, Stills to me in many ways is like

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Speaker 1: kind of a tragic story because I think he really

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Speaker 1: was like a brilliant guy, and until about nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: two or so, I think he really did keep pace

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Speaker 1: with Neil Young. I think that they were equals for

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Speaker 1: a while, and then something happened. It was like a

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Speaker 1: mix of ego, booze, drugs and bad choices like derailed

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Speaker 1: Stephen Stills, while Neil Young just kept going and you know,

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Speaker 1: became the Neil Young we all know and love. But

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Speaker 1: you know, even now, I still love Stephen Stills his music.

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Speaker 1: I love his songs, I love his career, and I

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Speaker 1: love of course his many many football jerseys. So so

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to get deep into the Stills verse here

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Speaker 1: on our second episode in the c s N Y series. So,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, let's get into this mess, all right. Well,

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Speaker 1: the heart of the Steven Stills csn Y riff. You

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Speaker 1: really got to take it back to the Buffalo Springfield

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Speaker 1: days with Neil Young and Buffalo Springfield again almost like

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Speaker 1: the Birds with Crosby could be its own episode. We

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Speaker 1: should only do a Buffo Springfield episode later on down

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Speaker 1: the road. It's just filled with drug tweelists and deportation drama,

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Speaker 1: and it's just amazing. It's amazingly after the dysfunction of

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Speaker 1: that group, they still decided to give it another shot.

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Speaker 1: That still blows my mind. Neil and Stephen met in

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Speaker 1: uh in sixty They were both playing clubs in Ontario

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Speaker 1: and Steven Still's band broke up soon after and he

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Speaker 1: moved to La to try to make it as a

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Speaker 1: as a session musician, and he famously auditions for The Monkeys,

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Speaker 1: which could you imagine if that happened, Like how rock

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Speaker 1: history would be different if Steven Still has got the

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Speaker 1: Monkeys part that Peter Tork got. Oh yeah, they'll just

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Speaker 1: be like, you know, all these conga parts and Latin

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Speaker 1: music breakdowns and blues guitars like the Monkeys just would

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Speaker 1: have been far out with Steven Stills in the band.

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Speaker 1: But I guess, thankfully for all of us, Uh, he

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Speaker 1: did not get the part. Neil and Bruce Palmer bass player.

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Speaker 1: We're in a band called the Mina Birds with an

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Speaker 1: early Rick James, which I highly recommend listening to the

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Speaker 1: band broke up when Rick James went a wall. They

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Speaker 1: decided to go to l A to try to find

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Speaker 1: Stills and get something started. They went to l A

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Speaker 1: and they couldn't find him. Neil and Bruce were looking

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Speaker 1: for Steven everywhere, looking at all the clubs and stuff.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't find him. They're about to give up and

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Speaker 1: head to San Francisco when they actually were stuck in

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Speaker 1: a traffic jam on sunset and they were looking go

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Speaker 1: in the other direction was Steven. Still. It's one of

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Speaker 1: the great traffic jams in rock history, right for tuitous

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Speaker 1: traffic jams. Yeah, this this only happened in the sixties.

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Speaker 1: I think you could just be driving around randomly and

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Speaker 1: then you're gonna meet like, oh yeah, let's form a

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Speaker 1: band with this guy, and we're gonna be icons on

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Speaker 1: the side of the road. Oh yeah. I mean, incredible story.

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Speaker 1: And from what I understand, it was like a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks later in April nineteen sixty six that Buffalo

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Speaker 1: Springfield made their debut, and it came together really quickly.

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Speaker 1: The whole sort of I don't want to call it

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Speaker 1: a gimmick, but the crux of the band was centered

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Speaker 1: around the interplay between Neil and Steven's guitar work that

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Speaker 1: was kind of like, you know, their gimmick. Really, it

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Speaker 1: was a time when bands lived to themselves to like

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Speaker 1: really short, little tight eight bar solos you listen to,

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Speaker 1: like George Harrison's solos and stuff in the Stones. It

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Speaker 1: really they weren't these like long winding, like guitar pyrate

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Speaker 1: technicus that you hear later in the decade. They were

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Speaker 1: really short. Yeah, And I think it's important to point

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Speaker 1: out too that this is like before the Almond Brothers,

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Speaker 1: It's before Leonard Skinnered. It's before like a lot of

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Speaker 1: the famous guitar bands that were you know, used to

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Speaker 1: seeing where there's two guitar players going at it. I

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Speaker 1: mean like Buffalo Springfield, like really were pioneers in that

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Speaker 1: kind of sound, and it's fascinating that they didn't really

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Speaker 1: get a chance to pursue it, in part because I

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Speaker 1: guess Neil and Stephen couldn't get along. Yeah, it's funny.

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Speaker 1: You read all the reviews of their their live shows

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Speaker 1: at that time and even some of their studio work,

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Speaker 1: and they always described the guitar solos in like violent

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Speaker 1: terms like duels and battles and war, and you know

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Speaker 1: it's kind of the way it was. I mean, you've

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Speaker 1: got uh still sort of more blues based solos and

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Speaker 1: then Neil's sort of atonal squeals, like the stuff that

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Speaker 1: you'd be known for later on. I think the track

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Speaker 1: Bluebird is probably the coolest example of on record of

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Speaker 1: how they played off each other. That's that's such an

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Speaker 1: amazing song. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, off the Buffalo Springfield Again record,

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Speaker 1: which was their second and I guess last record as

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Speaker 1: a band. Yeah. I mean you you hear the tension

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Speaker 1: in the track, and still in some of the early

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Speaker 1: press bios for the band, there's actually a line that says, uh,

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Speaker 1: Steven Stills is the leader, at least he thinks he is,

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Speaker 1: which is it's pretty amazing that even early on they

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Speaker 1: were like kind of joking not so joking at this,

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Speaker 1: and he would say, yeah, I was trying to be

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Speaker 1: the boss. You know, I had this military upbringing in

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Speaker 1: the South. I went to military school and they taught

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Speaker 1: me how to be an officer, and I was trying to, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, just be the leader here. And that graded

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Speaker 1: on young Neil, who was equally strong willed, but I

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Speaker 1: think more quiet and reserved, and they but it heads

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Speaker 1: the whole time. Yeah, And you can see this play

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Speaker 1: out in the singles that were coming out early in

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Speaker 1: Buffalospringfield's career, because the first couple of singles that came

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Speaker 1: out you had nowadays Clancy can't even sing and Burned,

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Speaker 1: which we're both nearly young songs, and neither song really

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Speaker 1: went anywhere in terms of being a hit. The next single, however,

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Speaker 1: for what it's worth, a Steven Stills song that of

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Speaker 1: course ends up being a huge hit. And it's a

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Speaker 1: song that, even to this day, I think is like

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Speaker 1: one of the iconic sixties I guess protest songs. It's

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Speaker 1: not like an explicit protest song. It's more a song

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Speaker 1: about protesting, I think. But um, you know, you hear

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Speaker 1: that guitar hook on the song and the you know,

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Speaker 1: hey stop, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down?

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's such a famous song. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: was revived recently at the Democratic National Convention. It's a

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Speaker 1: song that, like you hear and you still feel like

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Speaker 1: it has modern relevance. And I think that song becoming

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Speaker 1: a hit it probably emboldened Stills at that time to

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Speaker 1: feel like, oh, yeah, this is my band, Like I'm

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Speaker 1: writing the biggest song, you know, I can really take

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Speaker 1: control here, and it doesn't seem like it's a coincidence that, like,

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Speaker 1: once that song becomes a big hit, that's when Neil

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Speaker 1: Young starts looking at the door, essentially like he's now

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Speaker 1: feeling like, Okay, I don't really want to be in

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Speaker 1: this band. And it is very fascinating the dynamic that

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Speaker 1: exists between these two guys, because, as you said, like

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Speaker 1: Steven Stills had this militaristic background which is going to

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Speaker 1: manifest itself in and kind of funny ways once we

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Speaker 1: get into the seventies and the cocaine starts flowing. We'll

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Speaker 1: get into that later in this episode. But um, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was I think much more overt about um asserting

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Speaker 1: his control in the band, whereas Neil Young was much

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Speaker 1: more passive aggressive, like he asserted his power by like

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Speaker 1: not showing up and not doing certain things. So like

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Speaker 1: there was this famous instance where Buffalo Springfield They're gonna

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Speaker 1: be the first rock band on The Carson Show, and uh,

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Speaker 1: Neil Young decided to bail at the last minute, and

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Speaker 1: then Neil Young also decided to bail at the minor

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Speaker 1: Ary Pop Festival, which, as we all know, that's like

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Speaker 1: the debut of Hendricks. It's like where the who really

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Speaker 1: broke in America? Like broke so many bands, Jannis Joplin

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Speaker 1: became a star there. You know, Neil Young is sort

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Speaker 1: of intentionally doing things the sandbag Buffalo Springfield, which of

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Speaker 1: course is directly hurting Stills because he's extremely ambitious. And

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Speaker 1: you know, we alluded to this in our previous episode.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this is the beginning of, like Neil

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Speaker 1: Young just terrorizing Steven Still psychologically. It's like Charlie Brown

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Speaker 1: in the Football, like even Stills as Charlie Brown and

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Speaker 1: Neil Young as Lucy Right. I mean that seems to

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Speaker 1: be a dynamic that plays out repeatedly, you know, in

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Speaker 1: their relationship. Oh yeah, I mean even when they got

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Speaker 1: back that they did a Buffalo Springfield reunion in and

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Speaker 1: Neal bounced on that like seven dates in or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean fifty years later, he's still he's still looking

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Speaker 1: at the door whenever he's still too long. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: mean as much as like we you know, valorized Neil

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Speaker 1: Young for being this uncompromising unpredictable artist, and I valorize

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Speaker 1: him for that. I mean, I love Neil Young. If

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Speaker 1: you look at it from Steven Still's perspective, I feel

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Speaker 1: like he was the victim of that a lot, maybe

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Speaker 1: more than anyone else, as we're going to see as

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Speaker 1: this episode unfolds. But like in the short term, as

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Speaker 1: we are in the timeline right here, this essentially short

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Speaker 1: circuits Buffalo Springfield before they can really kind of realize

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Speaker 1: their potential as a band, which sends Steven Stills adrift

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Speaker 1: looking for a new project. Yeah, and he spends a

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Speaker 1: lot of the late sixties like kind of playing with

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Speaker 1: short lived musical collaborations. He did the famous Super Sessions

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Speaker 1: with Al Cooper and Mike Bloomfield, which is an interesting album.

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Speaker 1: But he but he wants to create this like every

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Speaker 1: Brothers style harmony duo with David Crosby, who around the

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Speaker 1: same time it'd been booted from the Birds and it

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Speaker 1: recorded some temos under the name which I love, the

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Speaker 1: Frozen Noses. Uh. Very early, probably the earlier cocaine references

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Speaker 1: in in sixties l A Pop. I gotta say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we and we talked about that in our Crosby episode.

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Speaker 1: How that ended up coming together because I think we

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Speaker 1: talked about how like Crosby was like a pivot point

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Speaker 1: between Nash and Stills, and like he helped bring them

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Speaker 1: together into this musical unit. But like, once these three

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Speaker 1: guys were together, I mean, I think it's fair to

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Speaker 1: say that Stills immediately assumed control of the band musically, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like that's that exaggeration. Yeah, musically and even

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Speaker 1: just professionally too. I think that label wise, he was

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Speaker 1: the point of contact for Atlantic, who ended up signing

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Speaker 1: them because Atlantic Emma Uragan was a huge Buffalo Springfield fan,

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Speaker 1: and I honestly think that Nash didn't have the credit

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Speaker 1: in the United States to really do the talking delay bowls,

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of the labels were terrified

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Speaker 1: a Crosby. I mean, Columbia let him go when he

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Speaker 1: was kicked from the Birds just because he was such

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Speaker 1: a hassle to deal with. So I think that Stills

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Speaker 1: was crucial and actually getting like laying the groundwork for

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Speaker 1: making this band happen on a functional level. He famously

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Speaker 1: went to London in early nine to try to sign

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Speaker 1: with Apple Records, the Beatles label, and he really screwed

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Speaker 1: up I guess George Harrison went out to see him

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Speaker 1: and uh, and Stephen goes, oh, yeah, George, Hey, can

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Speaker 1: you ask Paul if he produce us? And George was

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Speaker 1: just like, this is right. When George is feeling like

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Speaker 1: really belittle, He's like, Jesus, Chris, no, I wanted to

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Speaker 1: produce you, God damn it, but you don't forget it,

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Speaker 1: which I mean, you know, given what happened to Apple,

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Speaker 1: is probably the best thing for CSN, considering that Apple

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Speaker 1: was such a ship show by the end of the

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Speaker 1: sixties and really like they didn't need anyone to produce them.

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Speaker 1: I think Stills in particular, like he was very well

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Speaker 1: equipped to take the musical reins in the studio, which

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Speaker 1: is what he ended up doing. And like, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's that famous story I think Graham Nash tells it

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Speaker 1: about how when they were making that first record, the

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Speaker 1: nickname that they had for Stills was Captain Many Hands

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Speaker 1: because Stills was playing everything. Essentially, he was playing guitar,

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Speaker 1: he's playing oregon um. They had Dallas Taylor in the

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Speaker 1: studio the drummer, so he was handling the rhythm parts,

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Speaker 1: but otherwise Stills was really taking the bowl by the

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Speaker 1: Horns to create this record, And it's interesting to look

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Speaker 1: at how that album evolved because I know Graham Nash

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Speaker 1: has talked about how when they first got together, he

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Speaker 1: envisioned their first record being just a pure acoustic record,

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Speaker 1: because you like when they would play their early shows

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Speaker 1: and not really even shows, just playing for people around

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Speaker 1: Little Canyon and showing off their harmonies. It really was

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Speaker 1: just about these like lovely acoustic ballads and their harmonies.

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Speaker 1: But Stills wanted there to be an electric element to

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Speaker 1: the record as well, like he wanted there to be

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Speaker 1: some like rock and roll credibility. So even while Stills

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Speaker 1: was writing these beautiful folk epics, you know, like Sweet

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Speaker 1: Juty Blue Eyes for instance, is a still song, and

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Speaker 1: that kicks out the record and really sets the tone

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Speaker 1: for what that record is going to be. And then

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Speaker 1: you have, like you don't have to cry helplessly hoping

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Speaker 1: again all still songs. I feel like in terms of

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Speaker 1: like being an arranger, like he's the one who like

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Speaker 1: gave that record it's sort of epic sound like Wooden

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Speaker 1: Ships for instance, or a Long Time Gone. He's the

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Speaker 1: one that you know is really like laying on the

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Speaker 1: overdubs and making it more than just this sort of

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Speaker 1: like tweet folk record. It is like a big time

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Speaker 1: rock record. Oh yeah, I always thought he was basically

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Speaker 1: the musical director at that time. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: that the Crows handled a lot of the vocal harmonies.

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Speaker 1: But like you said, he was the one who would

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Speaker 1: who would spend long, long, long days in the studio

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Speaker 1: sometimes you know, multiple days in a row, which would

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Speaker 1: become a problem later on, but he was really he

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Speaker 1: would say in interviews, you know, I don't think the

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Speaker 1: others would mind if I said that the first album

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Speaker 1: was mostly My Baby exactly. I think he really envisioned

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Speaker 1: that again, that acoustic electric hybrid, because you know, this

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Speaker 1: was also the era of like Jimi Hendrix and Cream,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of these like really overamped blues rock bands,

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Speaker 1: and Crosby Stills and Nash was an antidote to that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and they did kick off that singer songwriter

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Speaker 1: movement that really ended up playing a big part, especially

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Speaker 1: in l a musick of the nineteen seventies. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: along with having that you know, sort of rock credibility

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Speaker 1: that Steals brought to the table. Again, I feel like

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Speaker 1: his songs more than the other guys on that record

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Speaker 1: are just such great examples of like early l a

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Speaker 1: singer songwriter, folk music. You know, Helplessly Hoping, for instance,

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Speaker 1: which is still one of my favorite Crosby Stills in

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Speaker 1: Nash and Young songs maybe my favorite. It's like such

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Speaker 1: a beautiful song. It really takes you back to that

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Speaker 1: time in a really evocative way. Yeah. I love how

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Hendricks described their sound as western sky music. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what it means, but it fits perfectly right now.

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Speaker 1: I agree, that's that's absolutely true. But you know the

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Speaker 1: thing about being Captain many Hands is that, like you

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Speaker 1: can't be Captain many Hands on stage. You know, they

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Speaker 1: needed someone else who could help fill out their sound

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Speaker 1: when they played live, and that's how you end up

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Speaker 1: getting Neil Young back in the band, where Steven Stills

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Speaker 1: is like, Okay, this guy terrorized me, but maybe this

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Speaker 1: time will be different, right, I mean, like, why would

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Speaker 1: he bring him back the fold? Well, he he wanted

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Speaker 1: Steve Winwood, and I guess Steve was like, no, I'm

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Speaker 1: busy doing blind Faith right now. I got got better

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Speaker 1: things to do. And so I guess it was amat Ernigan,

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Speaker 1: who you know, being the Buffalo Springfield fan boy kept

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Speaker 1: pushing for Neil, and he eventually was the one who

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Speaker 1: convinced Stills to give it another shot, and then everybody

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Speaker 1: else in the band too, I think was even like,

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Speaker 1: you sure you want to do this? Still was like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: it'll be different this time. It's cool. It's cool, it'll

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Speaker 1: be great. So they got Neil to sign on on

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Speaker 1: the condition that he would be made, you know, full

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Speaker 1: partner name in the Marquis, because I think at the

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Speaker 1: beginning they just kind of wanted to have him be

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Speaker 1: like Dallas Taylor and um and Greg Reeve would just

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Speaker 1: be another guy on the stage and Stills would say,

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Speaker 1: you know, don't worry, everybody will know it's you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody will know you're there. But but eventually, I think

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Speaker 1: Neil held out for like a month or so before

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Speaker 1: they he finally got his way and god got his

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Speaker 1: name on the Marquis, and you know that can have

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Speaker 1: sat well with Stills. I mean, who you know, he

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Speaker 1: just wanted basically a glorified Sideman to free him up

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Speaker 1: to like take the spotlight, to take some cool guitar leads.

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Speaker 1: And now he's got his personal nemesis next to him,

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Speaker 1: who also has equals say in the band, like, I

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Speaker 1: cannot imagine how that must have went down with him.

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Speaker 1: But have have you ever seen the performance of down

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Speaker 1: by the River on that TV special and seventy one

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Speaker 1: of the few CSN Y TV shows that they ever did.

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Speaker 1: Seeing Neil and Stephen just dueled together is incredible electrifying.

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Speaker 1: So it's like one of my favorite versions of that song.

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Speaker 1: You really see like what they could do on stage,

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Speaker 1: trading off guitar licks. The only issue I have with

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Speaker 1: it is that it's only five minutes, and I wish

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Speaker 1: that went on for twenty minutes, where those dudes could

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Speaker 1: just you know, solo off each other for the longest time.

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Speaker 1: And I think, like when you watch that clip, you

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Speaker 1: can really see like, Okay, it makes sense like to

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Speaker 1: bring Neil Young into this band because it is electrifying

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Speaker 1: seeing these guys play together. But you know, in a

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Speaker 1: broader sense, I don't know how you feel about this,

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Speaker 1: but you know, if you want to look at CSN

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Speaker 1: and CSN Y is being like two different groups, I

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Speaker 1: kind of prefer CSN even though Neil Young, I think,

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Speaker 1: is obviously like the most talented out of any of

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Speaker 1: these guys. I just feel like a sen like makes

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Speaker 1: more sense as a group. Like those three guys together,

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Speaker 1: I think complemented each other really well, and they kind

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Speaker 1: of completed each other in a way that feels like

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Speaker 1: more like a real band, whereas like Neil Young, you

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Speaker 1: add Neil Young to your band, like he's not going

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Speaker 1: to just blend in, like he's too strong of a personality.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know as I mean, we laugh when

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Speaker 1: Steven Stills calls Neil Young the snake like in the

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Speaker 1: Garden of Eden, But I kind of think he's right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and it's really I mean, it's not necessarily

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Speaker 1: Neil Young's fault. Like Neil Young is Neil Young. He's

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Speaker 1: gonna do what he does. But it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: Steven Still has had this line once where he said

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Speaker 1: that Neil Young never played team sports. You know, he's

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Speaker 1: like like he doesn't understand, like Still like who lives

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Speaker 1: in his football jerseys by the way, But it's like

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Speaker 1: if you look at Neil Young for instance, like you know,

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Speaker 1: he tends to surround himself with like people that aren't

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Speaker 1: as good as him, Like if you look at Crazy

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Speaker 1: Horse for instance, like crazy Horse is an amazing band.

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Speaker 1: I love how pre emitive they are, Like that is

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Speaker 1: you know what gives so many Neil Young records. They're

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Speaker 1: like unmistakable vibe. But like there's something about that band

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Speaker 1: that enhances Neil Young's guitar playing because his guitar playing

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Speaker 1: sons so much more epic because the rest of the

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Speaker 1: band is like pretty rudimentary, you know. And I feel

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Speaker 1: like that's like another example of like how Neil Young

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Speaker 1: could be passive aggressive. It would be even more effective

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Speaker 1: than Steven Stills as being aggressive aggressive. You know. The

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Speaker 1: other thing here too that kind of blows me away

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Speaker 1: is that, like Neil Young, and we'll get into this

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Speaker 1: in our Neil Young episode, he would never refrain from

396
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Speaker 1: like taking shots at like the other three guys in

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Speaker 1: this band. But isn't it fair to say that he

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have been nearly as famous if he hadn't have

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Speaker 1: joined Crosby Sells in Nash because they were already like

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Speaker 1: the biggest band in America and he wasn't really that

401
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Speaker 1: popular yet though his name recognition was zero. Yeah, Like

402
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Speaker 1: he used them as a stepping stone essentially, and he

403
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Speaker 1: ended up surpassing them, like by the time of Harvest.

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Speaker 1: He had a number one single with Heart of Gold.

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Speaker 1: But I just wonder like that must have just compounded

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Speaker 1: the trauma that Stills felt because he must have seen

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Speaker 1: that happen in real time. Yeah, I mean, Still's really

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Speaker 1: he shot himself on the foot by having Neil come in,

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Speaker 1: because suddenly he just completely undercut the CSN brand that

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Speaker 1: he had built and it was, you know, built into

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Speaker 1: the biggest band in the country. Now by adding Neil,

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Speaker 1: the trio will never feel complete again, you know, Whenever

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Speaker 1: to the three, the original three, who you know are

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Speaker 1: wildly successful, come together, there's always gonna people say, well,

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Speaker 1: where's Neil, Where's Neil? And it's just forever that brand

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Speaker 1: has gone, that brand is gonna feel like second tier.

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Speaker 1: And still says this again and again in interviews. He

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Speaker 1: would say that CSN Y felt like a full time job,

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Speaker 1: whereas CSN was something you could just slip into, like

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Speaker 1: an old shoe. I feel like that really reinforced the

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Speaker 1: idea that like crossby Stills, Nash and Young with Young

422
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Speaker 1: there made it this vibrant, challenging, difficult, tempestuous thing, whereas

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Speaker 1: CSN work, we're kind of boring, kind of bland kind

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Speaker 1: of safe, and yeah, I think that he inadvertently devalued

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Speaker 1: the thing that he worked so hard to make for

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Speaker 1: that for a CSN record by by welcoming Ellen all

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00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:12,919
Speaker 1: right hand, We'll be right back with more rivals, and

428
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 1: you can really start to see that really come to

429
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 1: the four when they started making Deja Vu, which is

430
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 1: the first record that they make with Neil Young. And

431
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:21,880
Speaker 1: we talked about this a little bit in our previous

432
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,400
Speaker 1: episode about how Steeles was pretty hard on Crosby during

433
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,159
Speaker 1: this time. You know, he was making him do all

434
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,360
Speaker 1: these takes of the title track. He was belitterally almost

435
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 1: cut my hair, maybe with justification, you know, we'll see,

436
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, he was again trying to be

437
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,120
Speaker 1: the taskmaster that he was on the first record, and

438
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,000
Speaker 1: I think he was also really getting into cocaine at

439
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 1: this time. So like this is the period again where

440
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,679
Speaker 1: he's just like in the studio for like five days straight,

441
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 1: not leaving, you know, just wanting to get everything right.

442
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 1: And you know, he had the problems with Crosby that

443
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 1: we already talked about, but then he also like really

444
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 1: kind of ran a follow up Nash and Young too

445
00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 1: at this time, didn't he Yes, it was a dark

446
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 1: time for kind of everybody in the band, and Still's

447
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,359
Speaker 1: relationship with Judy Collins was ending, and uh, and he

448
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: started coming up with these really sort of sad down

449
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 1: songs like Ivory Tower, which I think later became Sugar Babe.

450
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,120
Speaker 1: And this annoyed Graham, who really wanted to leave listeners

451
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 1: with like a positive message. You would say, like, you know,

452
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: what's the point of bringing other people down with your sadness.

453
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 1: So he didn't really like the attitude of a lot

454
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 1: of Still songs at that time. And he also resented

455
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 1: Stills kind of meddling with his songs even when they

456
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 1: made him better. I guess they got into like a

457
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 1: huge fight over our house the I guess Stills wanted

458
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: to add like an organ part instead of having that

459
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,719
Speaker 1: kind of slightly tweet harpsichord thing. And I guess Teacher

460
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 1: Children was going to be. I think Graham described it

461
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 1: as a Henry the Eighth style song. Uh. And then

462
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 1: it was Stills who made it like gave it like

463
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,239
Speaker 1: sort of country countrified. I think it's Jerry Garcia right

464
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: on pell steel. Yeah, like one of the great pedal

465
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 1: steel parts of all time. Yeah, I mean so that was.

466
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Still Still had an incredible eye

467
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 1: as a music director, but I think I assumed his

468
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: way of going about it wasn't as sentisen as it

469
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,239
Speaker 1: could have been in the studio. Yeah, and then of

470
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: course the biggest issues are with Neil Young, and I

471
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 1: think the crux of their conflict was that, you know,

472
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: Steven Stills again, is this perfectionist in the studio. You know,

473
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 1: he's doing blow all day long. He wants everything to

474
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,119
Speaker 1: sound immaculate. And then Neil Young, of course, is not

475
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 1: that guy at all. He is like all about rawness,

476
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: you know, doing things live, you know, keeping things imperfect

477
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: because he feels like that's where the personality comes in.

478
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: And you can hear that on his solo records, especially

479
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: as we get deeper into the seventies and he makes

480
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: like the Ditch Trilogy and all those wonderful albums. But um, yeah,

481
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,719
Speaker 1: they end up I think fighting over the song would Stock,

482
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 1: which I think is like alive in the studio take

483
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 1: it's like the most rocking song on that record. Although

484
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 1: I think Stills went back and he like re recorded

485
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 1: a couple of verses that he thought like the vocally

486
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 1: it wasn't as strong as it could have been, and

487
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: like Neil didn't like that. I think there's also an

488
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 1: issue too, like where Neil Young would like basically like

489
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 1: treat his songs on the record as like separate from

490
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: the rest of the album, like you know, you think

491
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: it sounds like like Helpless for instance. Wasn't he like

492
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: taking the tapes like of that song and like you know,

493
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: sort of screwing them away to like work on them

494
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 1: with like David Briggs, because like he wanted it to

495
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 1: sound like a Neil Young record than like a CSN record, right,

496
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: which I mean for somebody who's a control freak like Stills,

497
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: I mean no, No, this is a band Like you

498
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: don't get to do that. You don't get to have

499
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: your thing be completely separate, engineered and produced by your

500
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 1: own specific person who works just for you. I mean,

501
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: I mean that's kind of an outrageous thing to do

502
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: on Neil's part. Yeah, and again I think Still's probably

503
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: felt like, dude, I asked you to join this hugely

504
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 1: successful band, like we're already popular, like before you joined,

505
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: you're not gonna listen to me? Yeah, exactly, Like why

506
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: don't you listen to me? And you know, let me

507
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: be in charge, whereas Neil Young again, you know, he

508
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: wins by retreating. He wins by like not being in

509
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: the studio you know, much of the time during the

510
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: make of this record, and by taking the songs that

511
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: he does record to somebody else, you know, And it's

512
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 1: like the best strategy that you could have, Like, you know,

513
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: Steven Stills wants to think of him self is like

514
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: this military mastermind, but like Neil Young was the mastermind.

515
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: Like he knew if you're dealing with like a like

516
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: an overbearing force, you retreat and you let the overbearing

517
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: force like destroy itself. And that's what happened with Steven

518
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 1: Stills essentially, especially as we get into that nineteen seventy

519
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: tour that they did, which you know ended up like

520
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: really wearing down the band. And I feel like that

521
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 1: was the tour, you know, along with the making of

522
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 1: Deja Vou, Like We're Stills was like really starting to

523
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: alienate everyone else in the band by like again just

524
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 1: being this sort of aggressive, bullying, overbearing guy that also

525
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: like overplayed like a ton on stage, you know, because

526
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: he wanted the spotlight on him. Oh yeah, I mean,

527
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: there's a famous story they go to England in January

528
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, play this big, prestigious show at the

529
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 1: Royal Albert Hall and stills, as you said, it's like

530
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: the very picture of southern Bravado. He had that great

531
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: phrase that was my mediocre is better than your best.

532
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 1: But he's nervous and he and he gets there and

533
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: he's planned, and he sees like Paul McCartney in the

534
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: front row, and the midway through Paul's gone, and he

535
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: didn't realize that Paul just went up to the cheap

536
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: seats to like, you know, be part of the crowd.

537
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: But he thinks of Paul McCartney walked out, and he's

538
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: feeling really insecure, and the British press do what they

539
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: do and just sort of give like middling reviews of

540
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 1: the of the concert. And he gives an interview right

541
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: after the show where he says, you know, I started

542
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: out as a really beautiful idea of this band. We're

543
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: full of enthusiasm and ideals, but now a lot of

544
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: that feeling has gone between us, and that really sort

545
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: of sets the stage for the tour later that year

546
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: in the in the summer of seventy where it starts

547
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: to fall apart. He fires Basis Greg Reeves on the

548
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: eve of their their US tour um for a number

549
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: of reasons. One he thinks that just Greg is too

550
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,479
Speaker 1: inconsistent and how he plays, and for somebody like Steven,

551
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: who you know, really wants things to be a certain way,

552
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: that's not gonna fly with him. And also, I guess

553
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: Greg and Neil we're getting really tight. I think Greg

554
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 1: was on after the gold Rush, and I'm sure that

555
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: made him uncomfortable, made him think that maybe Greg wasn't

556
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: an ally with him anymore. So he fires Greg. They

557
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: have this awful opening night on their tour where Stills

558
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: have been thrown off a horse, and so he hobbles

559
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: on the stage on crutches um and he's a great story,

560
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 1: by the way, I love that story. I'm sorry, I'm sorry,

561
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: lady horse, but like, why why are you riding a horse? Stills?

562
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: Especially again, like you're doing cocaine all day long and

563
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: now you're gonna pop on a horse just doesn't seem

564
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: like a good idea. So he's on stage, he's injured,

565
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: on stage, he's playing over everybody. He's he's back, and

566
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: Neil's I think he's playing Helpless and he's playing piano.

567
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: He's playing all over him, and Neil's like shooting him dirty,

568
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: looks like, dude, back off. This is this is my

569
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: song is a quiet song. He's just really inconsistent all night.

570
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: Cross calls him to play his solo set in the

571
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: middle of the show, and he's like nowhere to be found. Uh,

572
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: And eventually in the middle of everybody I love you.

573
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: I guess Neil is is just so fed up with

574
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: all this, just this the erratic playing that Neil just

575
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: takes his guitar off and just sets it down on

576
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: the stage and storms off and they have this huge

577
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: fight backstage. Is like civil war from Crosby and Nash

578
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: and Neil or accusing Stills of treating them like servants

579
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: and still saying, you know, no, I'm trying to be

580
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do what I do. I'm trying to

581
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: be like kind of the music will direct you. Remember

582
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: it worked really well on our first album and uh,

583
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: and they're just not having it. Yeah, And then I think,

584
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: like Neil Young like he pulled Crosby in Nash aside

585
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: and said, you guys should too on your own without

586
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 1: Stills like again, which in a way you could say, like, oh,

587
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: that's probably pretty good advice, because like Stills was getting

588
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: out of control, But then you look at it from

589
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: Still's point of view, and it's like this guy. Look

590
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: at this dude, he's like trying to like under my authorities.

591
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: He's telling these guys to go away. Yeah, you know

592
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: the I think like later in that tour, like when

593
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: they were in Chicago, they actually that called off the

594
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: show because like the rest of the band, it was

595
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: essentially like staging a mutiny against Steven Stills, and then

596
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: there was this thing, you know, I guess it was

597
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: like revenge for the Greg Reeves firing because like Neil

598
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: Young then like insisted that they fired Dallas Taylor, who

599
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: had been like in the band really since the beginning.

600
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: And I know Dallas Taylor at some point like had

601
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: some issues that like his name wasn't in the band title,

602
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: you know, because he was like the only guy it

603
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: wasn't like Crosby, Stills, Nash and Taylor, although you know,

604
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: obviously he wasn't famous, so he wasn't going to be

605
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 1: in the in the band name, but Stills and Taylor

606
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: were pretty tight. But like there was no way that

607
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: the rest of the band wasn't gonna listen to Neil Young.

608
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: So then they fired Dallas Taylor. And I think at

609
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: that point, I think this thing that we were talking

610
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: about was stills where he could probably see, you know,

611
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: in real time that Neil Young was reaching a certain

612
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: level of prominence and that it was like dangerously like

613
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: you know, he was a nature of being usurped in

614
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: his own band essentially, and that Neil Young was doing

615
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: it after I'm sure in Still's Mine again that he

616
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: thought like, oh, I'm nice enough to invite you into

617
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: this great opportunity, and you repay me by like traumatizing

618
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: me again essentially, and that's what's really happening to him.

619
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: And Neil would come out like thirty minutes through the set,

620
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: right like like CSN, we're basically the Neil Young opening act. Really,

621
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: they bring Neil out midway through the show as sort

622
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: of like the main event. At least that's how it

623
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: came across, which must have been absolutely maddening. The stills

624
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: and again like man, you gotta just sit back and

625
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: marvel at Neil Young. And we'll get into this more

626
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: of this next in our next episode. I don't want

627
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: to spend too much time on this, but like there's

628
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: like a machiavellian thing here, like where he could like

629
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: assume so much control by like again appearing to be passive,

630
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: you know. And it's such a telling contrast with Stills

631
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: because like when he was witnessing this going on, Stills

632
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: doesn't take notes and like say like, well, maybe I

633
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: should be more like Neil, I should lay back and

634
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: maybe they'll come to me. He just becomes more aggressive

635
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: and like he like is asserting himself even more, and

636
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: like this is around the time and I think this

637
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: actually ended up on four Way Street where he started

638
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: playing the piano version of For what It's Worth, where

639
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: like he like starts, you know, just banging away on

640
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: the piano and he's just like ranting at the crowd

641
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: where he's like it becomes like this gospel number almost

642
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: and it's like really self indulgent, and it just goes

643
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: on forever, and like I know there's an instance on

644
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: one of these shows like where he like literally wouldn't

645
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: leave the stage, like during his acoustic portion of the show,

646
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: like he played four and twenty and Black Queen, and uh,

647
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: it just drove the rest of the band up the wall,

648
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: and I think it really ended up as much as

649
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: anything derailing that tour well. And then, of course, not

650
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: only are their professional differences, you got your personal differences too,

651
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: because Stephen at this point he was dating Rita Coolidge,

652
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: the backing singer veteran of the Really Tumultuous Delaneum Bonnie

653
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: Tour and Mad Dogs in English mentory. I guess she

654
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: really loved like dysfunctional rock tours. Uh, and she hit

655
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: the jackpot with this. She uh met Stills when she

656
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: was invited to sing on the session for I Love

657
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: the One You're with, And she really liked Graham Nash.

658
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: She kind of saw him across the room and they

659
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: started talking. Everyone likes Graham, Nash the ladies man. Yeah,

660
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: he's like the ladies man. Yeah. And Nash, Oh yeah,

661
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: next time we're in a later play a show. Give

662
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: me a call. You'll be my date. I'll be at

663
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: Steven's house. Here's his number. She calls Steven's house. Stephen

664
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: intercepts the call. Oh yeah, Graham, Graham changed his mind.

665
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: But but I'm free. So she and and Still start

666
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: having a thing, and Nash ends up finding out about it,

667
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: and so there's this love triangle between them all, with

668
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: Rita as the as the sort of the main point,

669
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: and um, I guess midway through the tour it's sort

670
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: of at the end of the tour, Nash, ever, the

671
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: the English gentleman, decides to to tell Stephen in person

672
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: that he just lost his girlfriend, like Rita's with him

673
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: now and uh Still's uh comes out swinging, which is

674
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: not good for their already tenuous relationship. Yeah, you know,

675
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: And I feel like this ended up being an issue

676
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: with these guys for like years. I think it wasn't

677
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: until like maybe the later seventies that like Stills and

678
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: Nash buried the hatchet like about this, Like this was

679
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: something that really stuck in Stills his crass like for

680
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: a long long time. And I mean I think it

681
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: was maybe the principle of it more than like I mean,

682
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: I think he was in to read a Coolidge. But

683
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: you know that idea that like hey, like you know,

684
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: bros before hose like that old saying you know, as

685
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: they say, not that I condone that reference to a woman,

686
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: but I'm just saying, like that is what a lot

687
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: of men feel that you should put your friend before

688
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: a woman, and uh yeah, it just ended up being

689
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: a huge issue with them for a long time. He

690
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: was like really into her. I think he like he

691
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: ended up taking an overdose of Downers or something at

692
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: some seedy hotel, but before he did, he wrote like

693
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: a message on his bathroom mirror to Rita or something

694
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: like he was really broken up about her. I guess

695
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: the pink giraffe on the cover of his first solo

696
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: album was supposed to be some reference to her or

697
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: some message to her, because it was a gift from her. Yeah,

698
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: he was really messed up about Rita for a long time.

699
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: Oh man, Well, okay, So then they end up putting

700
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: out Four Way Street the live record. But that's kind

701
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: of like the capstone of like this early era of

702
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: like CSN and CSN Y Like at that point, they

703
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: really are scattered to the winds for a few years

704
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: and they end up all making their own records. And we,

705
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: of course we all know about Neil Young. He ends

706
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: up being the most successful during this period, really culminating

707
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: with Harvest and Heart of Gold, which ends up being

708
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: a number one song. And I don't think Steven Stills

709
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: has ever had a number one actually No, that's wrong.

710
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: I love the one Year with I think was the

711
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: number one hit, So he had a number one hit

712
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: and Heart of Gold is a number one hit. And yeah,

713
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: I've made this case before. I really feel that, like

714
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: early on, Stills really did keep pace with Neil Young.

715
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,959
Speaker 1: I think until about like nineteen seventy two or so,

716
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: they really were on equal footing. Like like, for instance,

717
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: I think like the Manassas record from seventy two is

718
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: like such a pinnacle for Stills, like and I really

719
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: would put that up with like the Neil Young records

720
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: of that time. I mean it's a double record. There's

721
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: so many different song styles on there. You know, he's

722
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: writing folk songs, there's like blues songs, there's like hard

723
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: rocking songs. It's all over the map. And it really

724
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: is a testament to like what Stills was capable of,

725
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,479
Speaker 1: like when he had his wits about him. And you know,

726
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: I'm such a Stills fanboy that I'll even like stump

727
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: for the solo records that came after that, like Stills

728
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: in Illegal Stills and even like Thoroughfare and Gap Whoa,

729
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: I know that's like the disco record that he made. Uh,

730
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: what's that song. There's a song like with booty in

731
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: the title I can't remember, like go get your booty

732
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: or something like that. It's like not very good. And

733
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: also he's on a horse on the cover that record.

734
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: So he didn't learn his lesson from before when he

735
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: got thrown off. But you know, there's something that happened

736
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: I think after seventy two or so where it's like

737
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: he lost his way, and I think he had to

738
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: do with the drug and alcohol abuse that he was

739
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: going through. I think he was also again in his

740
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: own way. As much as we talked about Crosby in

741
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 1: our last episode alienating people, you know, I think Stills

742
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,439
Speaker 1: did that a lot too, just because again I think

743
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: he had this very forceful energy about him that I

744
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: think was rooted a lot in creativity. I think he

745
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: just had like a lot of music he wanted to

746
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: get out of himself. But he just wasn't very diplomatic

747
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: about going, you know, to people and getting them to

748
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: join him in the way that I think Neil Young

749
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 1: was able to do. You know, he just drove people

750
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: away because he was so intense. Yeah, there's the great

751
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: quote that still has had about manassas he said my

752
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: new band is a dictatorship, and I like that my

753
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: experience with democracy and rock and rolls that it's a

754
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: total failure. And I feel like that encapsulates his entire

755
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: working method of the early seventies right there, right And

756
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: like the fact that he would say that out loud too.

757
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: I thing is part of the problem because I think, honestly,

758
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: I think Neil Young feels the same way I think

759
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: on his albums. He doesn't look at himself as anything

760
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: other than a dictator. I think he's very controlling of

761
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: like what he does in his own music. It's just

762
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: that like he has like a more easy going way

763
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: about him where it's like you want to listen to

764
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: Neil Young, like you want to follow him because it's like, well,

765
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: we're gonna do something great if we follow this guy.

766
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel as hectoring in the way that is

767
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 1: with Stills, where I think Stills would you know, let

768
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: you know that, Yeah, I'm the one in control and

769
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: you're following me and I'm making you great. If I

770
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,919
Speaker 1: weren't here, you wouldn't be great. And that just alienates people.

771
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: It bothers them, you know, and it just drives them away.

772
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: And uh, and when you add a bunch of cocaine

773
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: on top of that, you know, like when you're just

774
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: doing drugs all day long because you don't want to

775
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: leave the studio, it just it just makes things worse

776
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: and compounds at all. And it really is sad to

777
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: me that he couldn't hold Manassas together. I think that

778
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,959
Speaker 1: was a great band, was incredible band, but that band

779
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: fell apart, and then he ended up trying to revive

780
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: csn Y again with the Human Highway Record, which we

781
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: talked about a bit last week. Yeah, there's been I

782
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: think Nash in his biography or in interviews at some

783
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: point in the past he said that they wanted everybody

784
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: to get to Maui and and the sort of underlying

785
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 1: secret mission of all that was to try to get

786
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 1: Steals clean, because I think at that point they recognized

787
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: that Stills is uh cocaine, jim b m and cheeseburger

788
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: diet was not not good for him or anyone around him.

789
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: And I think it was theorized in the Jimmy McDonald

790
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: book Shaky the Neil Young Bio. I think it was

791
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: from that. But yeah, there was a good couple of

792
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: weeks down there where they were working on songs. I

793
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: think Stells had see the changes and Nash had and

794
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 1: so it goes and Crosby at Homeward through the Hayes.

795
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: They had some great songs to work with. But yeah,

796
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: the same old problems cropped up fairly quickly. And it's

797
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: been theorized that there was some kind of like cocaine

798
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: deal that that went awry, that kissed somebody off down there.

799
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: It's it's it's up for debate about what exactly happened,

800
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: but it's just safe to say Crosby Stills, Nash and

801
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 1: Young with just being Crosby Stills, Nash and Young again.

802
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: And they splintered for about another year, and then they

803
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: came back together and the spring of seventy four for

804
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: the Doom Tour. I love talking about the Doom Tour

805
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: so much. There's so much to get into it that

806
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: we we we did a lot in the In the

807
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: Crosby episode, this is where they basically realized that their

808
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: commercial fortunes individually hadn't They had been faring very well

809
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: in the marketplace recently, and they could just meant money

810
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: by doing a reunion tour. The biggest tour that I

811
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: think had really been mounted at that stage, and it

812
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: was just one of the first arena tours. Yeah, it was.

813
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: It was a massive tour, and yeah, there was all

814
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: this decadence going on backstage, and I think you can

815
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: hear the effects of that decadence most audibly on Stephen Stills.

816
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: Like when you listen to there was that live record

817
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: that came out the live box set a few years ago,

818
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: the the c S N y seventy four, which I love.

819
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: I love that record, but like when you listen to

820
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: Still singing like love the one year with his voice

821
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: already sounds like pretty shot and this is like nineteen

822
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: seventy four, And you know, I think part of that

823
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: came from them playing these huge, you know, stadiums at

824
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: a time like where you know, kas were still in

825
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: the process of being uh, you know, sort of outfitted

826
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 1: for venues that side. I think that they often had

827
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: technical issues on that tour, but even you know, factoring

828
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 1: that in, I feel like you can already hear steals

829
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: his talent being diminished a bit, you know, by how

830
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: much he was drinking and drugging at that time. Um,

831
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: there's also like all these great backstage stories from that tour.

832
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,280
Speaker 1: Like my favorite Steven Stills is insane story is about

833
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: him and Bob Dylan on that tour. If you heard

834
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: this story, no, I don't think I have. Okay, So

835
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,439
Speaker 1: the apparently Bob Dylan he shows up during the Doom

836
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 1: tour and uh, he just you know, he's hanging up

837
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: backstage and he's already written all the songs for Blood

838
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 1: on the Tracks, like he hasn't recorded the album yet.

839
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: But there's all these stories about Bob Dylan at this

840
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: time sort of cornering people and playing them the Blood

841
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: on the Track songs, like he wanted to show these

842
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: songs off. I think because he knew that these songs

843
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: were freaking amazing and he wanted to blow people away.

844
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: So he cornered Steven Stills in a hotel room and

845
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: he's only playing for Stills. By the way, like Graham

846
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: Nash apparently was like outside the door trying to listen in,

847
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: and he was like insanely jealous that Bob Dylan only

848
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 1: focused on Steven Stills And in a way, I think

849
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: that speaks to Steven Stills his status even at this

850
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: time that like people really respected what he had done

851
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: was with the CSN and CSN Wine in Buffalo Springfield.

852
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: So anyway, Bob Dylan plays him all the blood on

853
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: the track songs, and Steven Still's reaction is basically like,

854
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: I'm not really into it, dude, I don't really feel it.

855
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: And I think he even said later to somebody else that, like,

856
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: you know, Bob Dylan's not real songwriter and all this stuff.

857
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: So anyway, he's like very underwhelmed hearing these songs. And

858
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: then Bob Dylan he looks at Steven Stills and he's like, Okay, Stephen,

859
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 1: won't you play me something you just wrote? Like I

860
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: think I think Still's kind of froze up then, and like,

861
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: you know, the story fizzled out then. I just love

862
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: that idea that like Bob Dylan's playing Tangled Up in

863
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: Blue and Stills is like it's still't like good enough

864
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: for him exactly. It just it's such a great portrait

865
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: of like how insane he was at this time and

866
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 1: like how his ego had really gone to his head.

867
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: I think at this point, is this the same era

868
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: where he was insisting that during the time that he

869
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: was in Buffalo Springfield he was a secret like CIA

870
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: agent and went on like secret undercover missions in Vietnam

871
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: or something. And we made like some really outrageous claims

872
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: around this time too. Yeah, there's all these stories about him, yeah,

873
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: like claiming that he went to Vietnam like in this era,

874
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: and that he was also like I think, wearing like

875
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: military gear like backstage, and he would even like have

876
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: people go through like different like military paces. You know.

877
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: I don't know if they were like literally marching backstage,

878
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: but like he was, I don't know, it was like

879
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: he was Colonel Kurtz and Apocalypse now, you know like that.

880
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like ego and again cocaine and like, yeah,

881
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: you're on this huge tour where everyone is catering to

882
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: you and you know, like more than anyone else in

883
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: this band, and I think, you know, all these guys again,

884
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: as we've said, are like major egomaniacs. It seems like

885
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: in this era in particular, like the fame and the drugs,

886
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 1: Like we're really going to Steven Steels his head. Yeah,

887
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: when David Crosby isn't the most insane person and a

888
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: group of people, that group of people at the dysfunction

889
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: level is so far off the charts that it defies

890
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: description I think that's where where we're at now is

891
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,919
Speaker 1: Stills in this era, and the fact that they tried

892
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: to get back together after this tour to finish Human

893
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: Highway blows my mind. I mean, I guess they knew

894
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,479
Speaker 1: how how financially successful that would have been, but Jesus Christ, yeah,

895
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: they tried to do that again and it clearly didn't work.

896
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: And not only that, but like Steven Steels again, it's

897
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: like with Neil Young, like he couldn't quit Neil Young,

898
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: and like, so they end up having this album where

899
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: they're going to make a record together, like the first

900
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: Still's Young record, um, and it ends up being called

901
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: Long May You Run. And we talked about this in

902
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 1: our previous episode about how for a time Crosby and

903
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 1: Nash were involved and then their vocals ended up getting

904
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: wiped out, which really pissed them off so much that

905
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: they refused to work with Stills for like, I guess

906
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: three months, and then they got reunited again. But in

907
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,439
Speaker 1: terms of like Stills and Young, you know, they made

908
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: this record and like the title track by Neil Young's great.

909
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a classic song. I feel like a

910
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 1: lot of the other Neil Young songs on that record

911
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 1: are like pretty lightweight and like not that great, And

912
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: it's amazing to think that this was the same era

913
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: that he was making albums like on the Beach and

914
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: Zuma and uh, you know, Tonight's Tonight, like where he

915
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: had like a lot of great songs laying around. But like,

916
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: you know, for the Stills Young band, he's like, oh,

917
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: let's play Fountain Blue. You know, this is the best

918
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: that can come up with for this band. So it

919
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: seems like maybe his commitment wasn't totally into the group.

920
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: And then you know, they end up going on tour

921
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: together and like Young just ripped Stills, he ripped, steals

922
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 1: his heart out again. They're on two separate tour buses

923
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: and after showing South Carolina, Neil store bus takes a

924
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: literal fork in the road and goes in a different

925
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: direction than Stills. Stills gets to the next destination and

926
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: arrives at the hotel and finds a telegram that says,

927
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: dear Stephen, funny of things that start spontaneously, and that way,

928
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: eat a peach, Neil God, eat a peach, man, eat

929
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: a peach. Why don't you say fuck you? But yeah,

930
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: that's like such a funk you move from Neil Young.

931
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: I mean again, I'm so torn here because I love

932
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: Neil Young, I love Stephen Stills. The Neil Young fan

933
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: of me is like, that's pretty awesome that he just

934
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: decided he didn't want to be on this tour. He's

935
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: following his muse and he bailed. The Stephen Stills fan

936
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,919
Speaker 1: in me is like, what a dick. How could Neil

937
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: Young do that to Stephen Stills, you know, and like

938
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: Steven Stills was shattered by that. Oh yeah, he gave

939
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: that really pathetic quote. He was like asked for comment

940
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 1: after Neil left, and he said, I have no future.

941
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: That was his official comment on the matter, which I

942
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: mean it's And then the worst part was, I think

943
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: Neil like went on on tour, Like the official reason

944
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: that he left was that he was on vocal rest.

945
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: It was like doctor's orders and he couldn't sing. But

946
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: then he went out on tour like weeks after, like

947
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: on his own too. So just just the rub salt

948
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: and Stills his wounds. So we talked to her last

949
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: episod of course, about what happens next. You know, Stills,

950
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: he's been abandoned by Neil young. So then he ends

951
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: up reuniting with Crosby and Nash, who were piste off

952
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 1: about the long May You Run incident, and they made

953
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: CSN in ninety seven, which was like a pretty big

954
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: hit record. I think that, you know, I think ended

955
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 1: up selling four million copies. Uh. It really showed, you know,

956
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: after all this time, you know, even though these guys

957
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: weren't as successful on their own anymore, the brand of

958
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: CSN was still really strong, you know, and they would

959
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,280
Speaker 1: like move records. Uh if these guys got back together

960
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 1: and um, yeah, I mean we talked about this before

961
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: in our Crosby episode about the whole story around Daylight Again,

962
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: which I think is a fascinating sort of example of

963
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: like how the brand really took over I think at

964
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 1: that point, because like these guys, I mean really none

965
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: of these guys were like we're in great shape, but

966
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: the record company felt like, well, your last record sold

967
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: four million copies. Of course, you know, the records you

968
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,280
Speaker 1: put out in the early seventies were also huge hits,

969
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: so like, let's have another c Send record. But like

970
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: the whole story room Daylight Again, I mean it's kind

971
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: of depressing, like how that record came together. Man, Well,

972
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: Crosby was just he was in no shape to record.

973
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 1: So steals a Nash just at a pure necessity, got

974
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: together and they financed the recording themselves, and the sort

975
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: of fill in for where where Crosby's vocals would have been.

976
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: They had people like our Garfuncle and Timothy B. Schmidt

977
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: sing those parts, and executives of Atlantic were like basically, no,

978
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: thanks Collins, we can get Crossed back into the picture

979
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 1: because yeah, nobody wants a steals Nash album. They want

980
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: to CSN record, so we can just like mint money.

981
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: So they got Crosby back in. Who I mean, it

982
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: was like Weekend at Bernie's style. I mean they really

983
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: just fold prop them up. I mean he had Delta,

984
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: which is an amazing song, but that was really his

985
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: only serious contribution to the album, which did great. I

986
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: think it got to like number eight and went platinum,

987
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: but it was it was mostly through Stills his work.

988
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 1: I think he had Southern cross on that one, which yeah,

989
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: like I think the first MTV like CSN air I

990
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: hit right. Yeah, it's amazing that they were able to

991
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,439
Speaker 1: pull like that song in particular out of like they're

992
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: asses essentially. I mean I think. I think basically what

993
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 1: Stills did is like he took that song. I think

994
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,399
Speaker 1: it was recorded by these two other guys who had

995
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: the music, but like the lyrics are really bad. So

996
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: then Stills just took their music and he wrote new

997
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: lyrics for it. And it sounds like a classic CSN song,

998
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: Like you hear that song now and it's like, oh wow,

999
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: that came out in the early eighties, Like it doesn't

1000
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: really necessarily sound like the other music even on that record.

1001
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it has like a really kind of classic

1002
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: folk rock sound to it, and like I feel like

1003
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: that's the song from the eighties, I guess, along with

1004
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: Wasted on the Way, the Graham Nash song from that

1005
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: album that like people would point to and being like,

1006
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 1: oh yeah, that's a classic song, and like if they

1007
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: play that live, people will sing along with it as

1008
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: in rough Shape as Stills was at this time. Again,

1009
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: I feel like Daylight again, it's an example of like

1010
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: how he could really kind of marshal the resources, I guess,

1011
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: along with Nash and at least make it look like,

1012
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: you know, this is the facade of a band. You know,

1013
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 1: it's like a convincing enough fact. Similarly, of Crosby Stills

1014
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: in Nash where again, yeah, they could still sell millions

1015
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,280
Speaker 1: of records, you know, by by putting out an album

1016
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: like that. It was really I think Southern Cross is

1017
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 1: probably the last classic Crosby Stills Nash, a Crosby Still

1018
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: Nash and young song, wouldn't you say? Because the next

1019
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: question pretty dismal. Yeah, it's starting with American Dream. Yeah,

1020
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: we talked about this a little bit last week. Yeah,

1021
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: you have American Dream, you have lived up with the

1022
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: atrocious hot Dog cover, you have After the Storm, which again,

1023
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: like you know, I revisited After the Storm for this series.

1024
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: I don't want to go overboard uh and overpraise that album,

1025
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: but I probably just had little expectations. But I actually

1026
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: think that's like a pretty decent record, and I think

1027
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 1: the Stills contributions, like in particular, like are pretty good.

1028
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's like nowhere near what you would consider

1029
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: to be like prime era for this band. And it's

1030
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: amazing Crosby Stills Nash album only hit on Billboard. I

1031
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: just think that's that's amazing. That's where markable that it

1032
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: was that like that was the degree to which no

1033
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: one cares. And again, like I think what's tough with

1034
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: Stills is that he was such a great guitar player,

1035
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: and actually do like his voice a lot. I don't

1036
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,280
Speaker 1: think it's like as conventionally pretty as Crosby or Nash,

1037
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: but he could be like a really kind of forceful

1038
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: singer on records and and like when you listen to

1039
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: live bootlegs, and I feel like you can really hear

1040
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 1: in him the deterioration more than the other guys, Like

1041
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: I think Crosby and Nash like they still sing like

1042
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: really well, like Neil of course still sounds great, but

1043
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: like Stills, like I don't know, like you really hear

1044
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: the ravages of time, like as you get into these

1045
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 1: later records. Yeah, I I feel horrible saying this, but

1046
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,439
Speaker 1: I look at Stills and I hear his voice and

1047
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: and some of his reason now. But I think of

1048
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 1: like Brian Wilson. I just think of like this figure

1049
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,399
Speaker 1: that had such a singular instrument that's now not there,

1050
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: and he doesn't seem to be trying really in some

1051
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: of the latter you know, decades of his career, which

1052
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: is it's hard. It's hard, and like in a way

1053
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,919
Speaker 1: though it's been like humbling for him, like you see

1054
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: interviews with him now and he's much more magnanimous, I think,

1055
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: than he ever would have been in the seventies. You know,

1056
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: like there was that there was that whole story, and

1057
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 1: we'll get into this, I think in our next episode

1058
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,240
Speaker 1: about Neil Young, but you know, there was like another

1059
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: Buffalo Springfield reunion in the early two thousand tents that

1060
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: like Neil Young ended up short circuiting basically, but before

1061
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: that happened, like I think Rolling Stone was talking to

1062
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,399
Speaker 1: Stills about working with Neil and again, like we've talked

1063
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: a lot in this episode about like in their prime,

1064
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 1: like Neil Young and Steven Steeleswick were locking heads because

1065
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: they were both like alpha dogs, you know, they both

1066
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 1: wanted to have control of whatever musical situation that they

1067
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: were in. And at that point, he was basically just

1068
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: saying like, hey, like it's a privilege to work with

1069
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: Neil Young, Like I'm lucky to do anything with this guy.

1070
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, in the way you could say like, oh,

1071
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 1: isn't that great that he has that perspective, But I

1072
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: don't know, I I missed the alpha dog Stephen Stills,

1073
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 1: like I missed the full fall Jersey coke snorting. Yeah,

1074
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: the guy who's like falling off of horses and then

1075
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: he gets back on the horse to make a disco

1076
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: rock record, you know, like that guy. I love that

1077
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: guy from the seventies. And and and again like I love

1078
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: all the Steven Steeles records from the seventies, even the

1079
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: ones that aren't that great, because I feel like he

1080
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: really had a strong personality that even shown through when

1081
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: he was experimenting with like different genres and different you know,

1082
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: sort of instrumentation that like didn't totally suit him, you know,

1083
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,959
Speaker 1: but he still had this visionary quality to him where

1084
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, I can play Latin music, I can

1085
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 1: play country music, I can play disco music because I

1086
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: am Steven Stills and that can make it work. And

1087
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: he just feels like kind of broken now looking at

1088
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 1: his first solo record that had Hendrix Clapton and a

1089
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: Beatle on it. I mean to have that confidence to

1090
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, I'm fine, I can go ahead to

1091
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: have the these guys I cannot imagine. I don't know,

1092
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: And maybe, you know, maybe it really was Neil leaving

1093
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: him on that tour. I don't know. I almost feel like,

1094
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, never fully recovered from that.

1095
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: If I actually like plot out his solo work and stuff,

1096
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 1: it really did seem to break him in a way. Yeah,

1097
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: man Niel's Machiavelli. Man, he broke Steven Still's through pure

1098
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: passive aggression. Unbelievable. We're gonna take a quick break and

1099
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: get a word from our sponsor before we get two

1100
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: more rivals. Okay, So this is the part of the

1101
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,479
Speaker 1: episode where we look at the pro side of each

1102
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: part of the rivalry. So let's talk about the pro

1103
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: case for Stephen Stills first. Like I said at the

1104
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 1: top of the episode, I love Steven Stills. I think

1105
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: out of like the original three members of CSN, Steven

1106
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: Stills is my favorite. I think he's the best musician,

1107
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 1: best songwriter. I think he's got a lot of charisma.

1108
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 1: I like how crazy he became in the seventies. I

1109
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: at some way I feel like his arrogance was justified

1110
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 1: for a while until it wasn't and he, unfortunately, I think,

1111
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: self destructed and it became again like this tragic cautionary tale.

1112
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: I think in a lot of ways. But again, I think,

1113
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 1: if if you love that first record, which I do,

1114
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: and if you uh just I think appreciate this band,

1115
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: you have to give it up to Stephen Stills because

1116
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: he really was, I think the musical driving force in

1117
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: the early stages of of CSN oh. Yeah, just total

1118
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: architect of their sound. And I credit not only with

1119
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: the sound, but also, like I said earlier, like I

1120
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: think that he had sort of the industry cloud at

1121
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 1: that period to get the band off the ground in

1122
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: the early days too. And I just what he brought

1123
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: to the group. I always think of him as like

1124
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: sort of like the anchor, you know, I mean just musically,

1125
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: he would make like the track beds that they could

1126
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: like then layer their harmonies over and everything. His voice

1127
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: was always at the bottom that like really soulful, grid Well, uh,

1128
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: Cross and Nash were kind of fluttering over above. Yeah.

1129
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 1: I feel like that he was probably the most indispensable

1130
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 1: of all four and uh you know Neil yeah, not

1131
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: one to doll out praise very easily, still refers to

1132
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: Stills as a as a genius. And you know, who

1133
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: am I to say otherwise? I think that was like

1134
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: when Stills his body was on the ground with a

1135
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 1: knife in his back, you know, Stills was dead, and

1136
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 1: then Neil Young said, Okay, well I've just murdered you,

1137
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: but you are a genius, so I'll tip my cowboy

1138
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 1: had to you to go to I guess the pro

1139
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: c n Y side or the anti Stephen Still side.

1140
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's fair to say that he

1141
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 1: could be a bully, and he could be very abrasive.

1142
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: And even though I'm inclined to think that he was

1143
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 1: driven just to make great records at that time and

1144
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: he had like you know, it's like a lot of

1145
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: piston vinegar in his blood and drove him to be

1146
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: artistically great, you know, he he just didn't have a

1147
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 1: delicate touch with that, and he could really alienate people

1148
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: by just letting them know like precisely how great he

1149
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 1: was and how much they needed him to be great.

1150
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 1: And you know, again looking at him in contrast with

1151
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: Neil Young, I feel like Neil could assert his power

1152
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: in a much more laid back kind of way, which

1153
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: I think ultimately served him well. I think two with

1154
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 1: Steven Still's, you know, he didn't have that inner compass

1155
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 1: that Neil Young had. Ultimately, you know, I think Neil

1156
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: Young was right to say that, like, you know, maybe

1157
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: just working quickly and not laboring over things and making

1158
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 1: them perfect. You know, you can end up making more

1159
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: records like that, and your records will have more life

1160
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: and and people will listen to them forty years later

1161
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: and find new things in them. Um, that's obviously benefited

1162
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: Neil Young great. You know, I think he had a

1163
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: sense of taste maybe that Steven Stills didn't have ultimately,

1164
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: which I think really hurt him along with just his

1165
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 1: self destructive impulses. Yeah, just from musical standpoint too, I

1166
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: think the others kind of smoothed out some of stills

1167
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: rough edges. I feel like he is so based in

1168
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: the blues and and that's sort of like southern rock

1169
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: type of sound that comes through on so many of

1170
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: the solo albums. I think that people like Crosby sort

1171
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 1: of California spacey jazz tendencies and then Graham's British invasion

1172
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,919
Speaker 1: pop sensibilities helped really create something new that I feel

1173
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: like could have been to one note with just Steven there.

1174
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: When you say yeah, I think so, I mean, I

1175
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: mean that kind of goes into our final section here

1176
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 1: where we talk about what all these guys bring together. Yes, certainly,

1177
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 1: I think that levined what Stills did, although I'm more

1178
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: inclined to think that what Still's brought to the table

1179
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: was even more valuable in a way, because I think

1180
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: without him, Crosby, Stills and Nash would have been like

1181
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 1: a very easy listening band from the beginning. I think

1182
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: what Still's brought was that grit, you know, the blues

1183
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: in his voice. He had the vision to, you know,

1184
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 1: take these beautiful folk songs into like explode them out

1185
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,720
Speaker 1: into these beautiful soundscapes. Well at the same time also

1186
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 1: producing just these wonderful, stripped down songs like helplessly hoping

1187
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 1: like he could go both ways. So yeah, he was

1188
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: the visionary of the band, and I think he also

1189
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: brought some grit that they really needed. Yeah, I think

1190
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,799
Speaker 1: That's Still sort of provided sort of the funk to

1191
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 1: write And I feel that way when I listened to

1192
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: Crosby and Um and graham solo stuff too. I mean

1193
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: it's a great like I think I called it like

1194
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,839
Speaker 1: a hammock rock album, Like I can put it on

1195
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 1: like a summer day when I'm like sitting outside or

1196
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 1: something and just mellow me out. But something but Still

1197
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,720
Speaker 1: is definitely something heavier, more grit that, like I said earlier,

1198
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: just kind of anchored it and made it feel a

1199
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 1: little more earthy, And that's I think again, it's such

1200
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 1: an incredible that whole band is such an incredible example,

1201
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 1: just like the band being more than just some of

1202
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 1: its parts. Well, you know, Jordan, I've had so much

1203
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: fun digging into CSN Y that I've been helplessly hoping

1204
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: that we could just talk about this forever, But unfortunately,

1205
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: we're going to reach part three, the final part of

1206
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:08,959
Speaker 1: our series, next week, where we talk about Neil Young

1207
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 1: murdering Steven Stills getting deeper into that, as well as

1208
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,760
Speaker 1: you know all the other conflicts that have existed between

1209
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: Neil and CSN over the years. So until then, thank

1210
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: you again for listening to another episode of Rivals. We'll

1211
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: look forward to talking about more beefs and feuds and

1212
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: long simmering resentments next week. Rivals is a production of

1213
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. The executive producers are Shawn ty Toone

1214
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: and Noel Brown. Supervising producers are Taylor Koin and Tristan McNeil.

1215
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 1: The producer is Joel hat Stat. I'm Jordan run Talk,

1216
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: I'm Stephen Hyden. If you like what you heard, please

1217
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: subscribe and leave us a review. For more podcast for

1218
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1219
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.