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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and just six percent of Americans are

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Speaker 1: satisfied with how much the DOJ has released of the

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Speaker 1: Epstein files so far. We have such a great job

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Speaker 1: for you today. Garbage Day's own Ryan Broderick stops by

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Speaker 1: to talk to us about what he saw on the

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Speaker 1: ground in Minnesota. Then we'll talk to journalist Tita Brown

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Speaker 1: about Donald Trump's chaotic trip to Davos. But first the news.

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Speaker 2: Molly, The New York Times has a really really crazy

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Speaker 2: report and graphic on how Trump has pocketed almost one

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Speaker 2: point five billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so Donald Trump has spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: making money since he's been here. A review by the

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Speaker 1: editorial board relying on analysis from the news side. And

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Speaker 1: this is why places like the New York Times are

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Speaker 1: so good and by the way, there's only one so sad,

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Speaker 1: but they can look at the reporting from the news

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Speaker 1: side and then make claims and make it all make

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Speaker 1: sense on the editorial side. So this is a great

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Speaker 1: example of that one point four billion dollars Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: has made in a year. How much did you make

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Speaker 1: this year? I know how much I made. It was

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Speaker 1: not one point four billion dollars, let me tell you.

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Speaker 1: But then again, I'm not president and I am not

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Speaker 1: effectively using this office to enrich myself. Here are some

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Speaker 1: of the things that he made money on. A hotel

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Speaker 1: in Oman, an office tower in western India, a golf

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Speaker 1: course on the outskirts of Riod, Saudi Arabia, twenty overseas project.

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Speaker 1: The projects that the Trump organization is pursuing, often requiring

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Speaker 1: cooperation with foreign governments, very nice. These deals have made

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars for Trump, according to Reuters, and the

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Speaker 1: administration has sometimes treated those same governments favorably. That's right.

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Speaker 1: You know how we used to have rules and laws

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Speaker 1: so that the personal business of a president would not

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Speaker 1: get all tangled up with the personal business of a government.

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Speaker 1: Well here's where we are. So the administration agreed to

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Speaker 1: it lower its threatened tariffs on Vietnam about a month

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Speaker 1: after a Trump organization broke ground on a one point

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Speaker 1: five billion dollar golf complex outside of Hannoi. So like

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Speaker 1: this is what it is. Amazon paid for the Milania

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Speaker 1: doc so that Jeff Bezos could curry favor with Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: Settlements have come from X from ABC News, from Meta

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Speaker 1: from YouTube, and paramount. Yes, the corruption is just in

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Speaker 1: fucking credible and billionaires, turns out are not good star

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Speaker 1: wars of anything, or at least the billionaires we know

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Speaker 1: have been wildly disappointing. Trump sailed Crypto has been his

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Speaker 1: biggest money maker. You know, Crypto. The thing that we

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Speaker 1: have been told again and again by reporters is largely

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Speaker 1: a scam. We have never had a president who is

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Speaker 1: profited like this. Even in Trump's first term, he did

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Speaker 1: not profit like this. When President Truman left office in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three, he did not even own a car.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump will leave the White House with a plane

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Speaker 1: a four hundred million dollar Boeing seven forty seven that

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Speaker 1: he was gifted by the qataris one point four billion dollars,

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Speaker 1: is what this editorial board thanks. Donald Trump has made

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Speaker 1: on his one year of president thing.

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Speaker 2: So speaking of that, while he gets rich, we all

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Speaker 2: get poorer. The Wall Street Journal probably hailed as the

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Speaker 2: Daily Bible of Capitalism as a report saying that Americans

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Speaker 2: are the ones paying for tariffs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is all stuff. We know that

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Speaker 1: tariffs make things more expensive. You buy things that are

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Speaker 1: more expensive, you pay more money rago, you pay for

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Speaker 1: the tariffs. The point of the tariffs was to punish

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Speaker 1: manufacturers who were not manufacturing in the States. But because

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Speaker 1: these tariffs are so haphazard, people aren't building in the States.

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Speaker 1: People aren't building factories in the States, and so there's

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Speaker 1: not a manufacturing advantage. So it's a completely pointless exercise.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is just using it because it's fun for him.

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Speaker 1: And here we are.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So I was trying to think of what would

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Speaker 2: be a more ridiculous thing for ICE to deport and

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Speaker 2: take it to custody, and we have found it here

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Speaker 2: where they have taken in three tribal members of a

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Speaker 2: Native American tribe in Minneapolis. All this happens while ICE

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Speaker 2: broke into a Minnesota home and dragged a barely clothed

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Speaker 2: American citizen into the snow. It's reckless, abandoned all around.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, here's the thing. This is to

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Speaker 1: punish people who are not white Christians. And so here

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Speaker 1: we go. They've got Native people, They've got you know,

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Speaker 1: this poor guy. There's a photo of a guy being

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Speaker 1: dragged from his home by ICE agents. He's an elderly man.

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Speaker 1: He's not wearing a shirt, he's wearing a robe. His

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Speaker 1: chest is bare. It's Minnesota, it's freezing. These are South

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Speaker 1: Dakota tribal members. They were detained by Customs and Immigration

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Speaker 1: enforcement in Minnesota. They're from the Soa tribe in South Dakota.

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Speaker 1: When America did this last time, we had the same thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're just deporting anyone who doesn't look like

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Speaker 1: a white Christian And here we are. Last year, the

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Speaker 1: Navajo Nation said the tribal citizens in Arizona, we're being

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Speaker 1: stopped and detained by ICE. So that's been going on

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Speaker 1: for a year. First of all, these ICE agents are

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Speaker 1: poorly trained, and second of all, they don't really care. Right,

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Speaker 1: We've seen reporting from the Wall Street Journal that you

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Speaker 1: know that they get bonuses even at person isn't meant

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Speaker 1: to be detained or it turns out not to be

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Speaker 1: in this country illegally. That this is about chaos, This

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Speaker 1: is not about immigration, This is not about making America

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Speaker 1: more safe. And in fact, you know, the polling is

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Speaker 1: that fifty percent of Americans actually believe ICE. If ICE

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Speaker 1: comes into a city, it is less safe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a lot of evidence for that. Speaking

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Speaker 2: of there being a lot of evidence, so I started

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Speaker 2: noticing online that people were speculating that there's polymarketing Calshi

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Speaker 2: trading going on around the White House press briefings, where

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Speaker 2: Caroline Lovett ends them at a certain point in order

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Speaker 2: for people to do insider trading. And we see reports

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Speaker 2: of this insider trading around the wars and all sorts

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Speaker 2: of other things every day.

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Speaker 1: This is a really insane story. I had no idea

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Speaker 1: about this, but you said you had some idea. This

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Speaker 1: was happening basically before White House Press Secretary Karen Levitt

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Speaker 1: takes the podium for press briefings, users on polymarket and

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Speaker 1: Calshi places their beds, hoping to cash in on their

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Speaker 1: predictions about sort of when the briefing will start, how

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Speaker 1: long it will last, and what she'll say. Words and

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Speaker 1: phrases like ice, narco, terrorist, Biden, and radical Left are

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Speaker 1: popular picks, with thousands of dollars being put up every

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Speaker 1: time she takes the podium. Users have placed thirty three

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars on whether the UFC will host a fight

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Speaker 1: at the White House for the country's two hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty Thennivers, we are by that time eighty five thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars on what President Trump will say at his State

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Speaker 1: of the Union address and three hundred and seventy two

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars on which secretaries will be out at the

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Speaker 1: end of the year. So while this administration is hurting

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Speaker 1: people and costing us money, it is also at least

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Speaker 1: entertaining people who have gambling problems, if nothing else. And

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Speaker 1: that is absolutely such incredibly dark and super shitty reality.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we really saw some proof of this where

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Speaker 2: with just seconds left, they ripped Caroline Levett off of

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Speaker 2: the podium in the weirdest way you've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: And you think that was because I.

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Speaker 2: Was waiting for a reputable news outlet to put this up,

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Speaker 2: and notice us put it up. And I think they

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Speaker 2: are a rigorous outlet. And the evidence even on Twitter

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Speaker 2: is pretty.

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Speaker 3: Overwhelming, unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Ryan Broderick is the editor of Garbage Day and the

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Speaker 1: host of the podcast Panic World. Welcome Ryan, Hi, Hi,

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Speaker 1: you write about Internet everything. You write a really good newsletter.

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Speaker 1: But you went to Minnesota, So tell us why you went.

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Speaker 3: So I've been following the connection between the right wing

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Speaker 3: media ecosystem which these days also encompasses random influencers on

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Speaker 3: x and YouTube channels and podcasters and all the rest

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Speaker 3: and activity on the ground from the federal government, which

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Speaker 3: sounds totally bizarre and insane, but is happening. We're living

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Speaker 3: in a world where the federal government accounts on x

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Speaker 3: or quote posting libs of TikTok, and basing their operations

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Speaker 3: on what they're seeing online. So I thought, Okay, what's

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Speaker 3: happening in Minnesota is probably the most aggressive action we've

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Speaker 3: seen from the Trump administration like this. So after the

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Speaker 3: murder of Renee Nicole Good, my podcast producer Grant Irving

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Speaker 3: and I flew out immediately and we were there through

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Speaker 3: the first weekend of unrest following her murder, And yeah,

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Speaker 3: we did see up close a pretty chummy relationship between

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Speaker 3: the right wing media and Ice, And I feel like

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Speaker 3: I have a much better understanding now of how these

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Speaker 3: two worlds are intersecting and interacting with each other.

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Speaker 1: Everything you're saying makes a lot of sense. Reason that

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Speaker 1: this administration is in Minneapolis, I would love you to

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Speaker 1: talk about that, because that is because of a right

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Speaker 1: wing influencer.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's right. So Ice has been in Minnesota, terrorizing

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Speaker 3: the people on the ground there for a while, but

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Speaker 3: the temperature really turned up after a YouTube video was

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Speaker 3: published by a influencer named Nick Shirley. He's your typical

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Speaker 3: kind of like right wing dueb who shows up and

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Speaker 3: causes a big moral panic, which is what my podcast

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Speaker 3: Panic World focuses on these sort of moral panics that

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Speaker 3: come through the culture every once.

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Speaker 2: In a while.

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Speaker 3: And his documentary, quote unquote, was about daycares in Minnesota

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Speaker 3: that were allegedly committing fraud by not having any children enrolled. Now,

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Speaker 3: there is a problem with fraud in Minnesota. It's a

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Speaker 3: problem that has been known about for years. The FBI

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Speaker 3: was even already investigating it. The issue with Nick Shirley's

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Speaker 3: video is that it took a lot of what was

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Speaker 3: already known, already reported by local news agencies and even

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Speaker 3: national news agencies, and packaged it into the most hysterical

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Speaker 3: thing you could imagine. It was doing pretty well on YouTube,

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Speaker 3: and then Shirley uploaded the entirety of it to x

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Speaker 3: and even though x is not nearly as healthy as

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Speaker 3: Twitter used to be in terms of user base, almost

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Speaker 3: the entire Trump administration is on it all day and

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Speaker 3: so it created this firestorm where you have Elon Musk,

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Speaker 3: and you have Vice President A Vance, and you have

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Speaker 3: FBI Director Cash Mattel all sharing the video saying we've

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Speaker 3: got to do something about this immediately, and that led

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Speaker 3: to an increased presence of ICE agents in Minneapolis and

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Speaker 3: Saint Paul, and then that led directly to Renee Nicole

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Speaker 3: Good being murdered.

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Speaker 1: I think an important caveat is that this was not

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Speaker 1: something that hadn't been dealt with or reported about, right,

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Speaker 1: had been written about extensively in the New York Times,

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Speaker 1: in the Watch and Post, and in fact, these people

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Speaker 1: had been prosecuted and one or something had been charged,

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Speaker 1: people had gone to jail, Like this was actually a

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Speaker 1: story that it all happened. It just these people didn't

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Speaker 1: read the mainstream media and so they had never heard

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. It put it all right in to the

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Speaker 3: you know, the lap of the administration, and then they

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Speaker 3: acted like it was brand new information.

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Speaker 1: They're trying to prosecute fraud that's been prosecuted by sending

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Speaker 1: ICE agents in to basically target smallly people, many of

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Speaker 1: whom had protected status.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that it's important to understand this

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Speaker 3: as an evolution of the governing strategy, if you want

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Speaker 3: to call it that of the first Trump administration, which

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Speaker 3: in Trump won, it was very much a performance for

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Speaker 3: Fox and Friends. We know that the president would effectively

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Speaker 3: govern that day based on what he saw on Fox

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Speaker 3: and Friends and then wait for Fox and Friends the

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Speaker 3: next morning to kind of grade him or process what

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Speaker 3: he's done. And I do think that that is still

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Speaker 3: fairly true for him, at least, like I don't really

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Speaker 3: think he's that online of a human beings. I don't

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Speaker 3: think that Donald Trump knows what four Chan is right.

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Speaker 3: But in Trump too, he has amassed this regime of

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Speaker 3: former podcasters and even former Fox News hosts who are

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Speaker 3: all com You know, there's been rumors forever that Vice

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Speaker 3: President Vance is in Groper Discords and DM groups, and

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Speaker 3: so he has a very online administration. And they are

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Speaker 3: still doing this. They are still performing for the media,

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Speaker 3: but the definition of media has changed, and it's and

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Speaker 3: it's not just a performance in the sense that they

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Speaker 3: are hoping to get media coverage. They are also informing

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Speaker 3: what they do based on what they see in the media,

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Speaker 3: which at this point now can you know, counts as

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Speaker 3: the whole internet. So it's a real two way street.

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Speaker 3: And so if you're looking at Minnesota and you're saying,

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Speaker 3: why are they just like ransacking the place and sending

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Speaker 3: ice agents all over the place and tearing people, it's

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Speaker 3: because that makes for the best clips that then go

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Speaker 3: back on social media. It's a it's a loop.

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Speaker 1: In this loop, what is the goal?

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Speaker 3: To be the best president he can possibly be? So

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Speaker 3: the goal, like it strikes.

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Speaker 1: Me a lot of what they talk about is deporting

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Speaker 1: a lot of people, which isn't happening, and the and

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Speaker 1: the media stuff is actually making it harder. But let's

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Speaker 1: not argue with that because we you know, we want

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Speaker 1: it to be that way. But I mean their stated goal,

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Speaker 1: if you look at them on the Internet, the goal

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Speaker 1: is to bring America back to a sort of you know,

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Speaker 1: man in high castle world that never lived, right.

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Speaker 3: I think that's true. But I think something that I

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Speaker 3: try to impart as often as I can is that

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Speaker 3: while the American right and the trumpdministration seem like this

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Speaker 3: monolithic machine, this this you know, working in perfect lockstep,

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Speaker 3: it's not. It's a of competing interests. And so I

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Speaker 3: think there's several things happening one. I do think Trump

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Speaker 3: is just a natural performer. You know, in another life,

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Speaker 3: he'd just be cleaning out on the view if he

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Speaker 3: wasn't a fascist. I think he sort of understands the

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Speaker 3: rhythms and the ebbs and flows of the media, and

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Speaker 3: he leans into that. He has in his second administration

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Speaker 3: surrounded himself with hardcore Blood and Soil nationalists, Steven Miller

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Speaker 3: being chief among them. But also he has now the

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Speaker 3: entire support network of the Project twenty twenty five people,

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Speaker 3: so they are much more organized in that direction. But

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Speaker 3: because Trump is such a creature of the media, he

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Speaker 3: can't help himself from hiring people who come from that world.

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Speaker 3: So you have an administration where there are genuine, cold,

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Speaker 3: calculating ideologues acting out a as you said, man in

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Speaker 3: the High Castle domestic policy. But it's being led by

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Speaker 3: circus clowns, like it's being led by the dumbest people imaginable,

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Speaker 3: who are focusing more on what looks good in a

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Speaker 3: video leader Chirsty Known, Pete Hegsith Cash Coutel. These people

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Speaker 3: only know content, and so it is kind of funny.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I suppose it's like all authoritarian regimes where

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Speaker 3: it's full of the most evil people you've ever imagined

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Speaker 3: and the dumbest people imaginable, and there's a big Van

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Speaker 3: diagram between the two. But it's not working the way

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Speaker 3: that I think they thought it would work. I also suspect,

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Speaker 3: because of the media landscape being so different now that

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Speaker 3: they're in their own version of a filter bubble, and

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Speaker 3: maybe up until Renee Nicole good you know, I don't

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Speaker 3: want to give them too much credit here or sort

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Speaker 3: of right, but it's possible that they actually were so

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Speaker 3: deep in their own filter bubble that they didn't totally

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Speaker 3: get how this would look to normal people, which is horrific.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk about that, because after it happened,

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Speaker 1: we saw, you know, they just set more people in

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Speaker 1: to Minnesota. They now want to investigate Rene Nicole good wife.

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Speaker 1: They want to investigate Tim Wallas, they want to investigate

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Speaker 1: Jacob Fray, they want to investigate anyone they can find,

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Speaker 1: but they don't want to investigate the guy who murdered her. No,

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Speaker 1: the polling on this is very bad. Okay, there are

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Speaker 1: certainly people for whom this is great, but a lot

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Speaker 1: but the sort of the people you need to win

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Speaker 1: elections you've lost on this issue. So, I mean, do

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Speaker 1: you think there's a feeling here, you know, from what

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Speaker 1: you see online, that there's some kind of pullback, that

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Speaker 1: there's some kind I mean, what do you see online?

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Speaker 1: And also what else are they interested in now.

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Speaker 3: Green Lindon, Canada, in Venezuela. Apparently, I do think that

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Speaker 3: they assume this would be more popular. It does seem

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Speaker 3: like they are stuck in a situation that I think

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Speaker 3: is very common for this kind of administration around you know,

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Speaker 3: in governments around the world, which is that they can

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Speaker 3: not project weakness, They cannot admit they've they've screwed up,

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Speaker 3: or that they're wrong. But they also do understand that

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Speaker 3: to a certain extent, they are beholden to the popularity

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Speaker 3: of their support base, right, So you know, I've seen

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Speaker 3: arguments that this is how a regime acts when they

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Speaker 3: don't think they're gonna have to care about voting again.

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Speaker 3: But I think that's a little simplistic. Even the most

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Speaker 3: toutalitarian regimes on Earth still have to play some form

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Speaker 3: of game with the people that they are, you know, controlling.

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Speaker 1: Especially a year into it, right, I mean, like if

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Speaker 1: it were we were ten years into it, you could say,

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Speaker 1: all right, but it's pretty new.

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Speaker 3: And also we still haven't, you know, been able to

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Speaker 3: get rid of that pesky First Amendment. So we're in

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Speaker 3: a different landscape than let's say, Weimar Republic, Germany and

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Speaker 3: the Thread or something now. So I think my most

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Speaker 3: charitable interpretation based on what I can see from for

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Speaker 3: your listeners who don't aren't familiar with me, Like, I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to claim that I have inside sources in

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Speaker 3: the way house, but I do read an unimaginable amount

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Speaker 3: of right wing media coverage, and I have sort of

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Speaker 3: come to understand it as something a little more scientific

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Speaker 3: than reading tea leaves that they are clearly all trying

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Speaker 3: to the way they work is like they will all

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Speaker 3: blast the Internet with different forms of messaging, and then

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Speaker 3: the messaging that works they tend to lean into. We

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Speaker 3: saw this with Cracker Burrow, we saw this with Sidney

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Speaker 3: sweeneze Jeans. They do this all the time, and so

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Speaker 3: I have seen them beginning to experiment with how do

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Speaker 3: we get away from this? Now? Of course you're going

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Speaker 3: to find the diehards that want to start the next

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Speaker 3: American Civil War in the Twin Cities, and they want

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Speaker 3: to just ransack the place and destroy it, and they're craving,

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Speaker 3: you know, blood. But I do think that there is

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Speaker 3: a emerging voice on the right that is saying that

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Speaker 3: we need something else. And typically I joked about this

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Speaker 3: at the start of this question, but typically what Trump

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Speaker 3: does is he likes to dangle a new set of

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Speaker 3: keys in front of the babies. So if everything has

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Speaker 3: gone completely pear shaped in Minnesota, well it's time to

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Speaker 3: you know, create our own like invasion of Ukraine with Alberta, Canada,

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Speaker 3: you know, right right, it's time to go destroy NATO

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Speaker 3: in Greenland. So he's constantly spinning these plates. And I

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Speaker 3: don't I want to be very clear, I do not

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Speaker 3: think that there is some secret room of the White

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Speaker 3: House where they're saying, well, if we do this, we'll

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Speaker 3: distract people from this. No, if you feel like the

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Speaker 3: Trump administration is distracting you, like you have an attention

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Speaker 3: span problem and like you just probably need to like

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Speaker 3: stop watching the news for a little bit, I think

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Speaker 3: they're very, very incompetent. And I but I do think

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Speaker 3: that Trump understands that, like he has to always be

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Speaker 3: doing something and so you know, if one thing fails

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Speaker 3: he can say, well, that didn't fail. Actually we just

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Speaker 3: moved on to this right.

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Speaker 1: That's actually a terrifying thing to say, because as I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about what Donald Trump could get to next, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, Greenland. The thing that where Trump really

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Speaker 1: got into trouble was Epstein. That was the last time

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Speaker 1: where we saw him really both to message his way

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Speaker 1: out of that. Do you think people have just forgotten

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Speaker 1: about it because there's such goldfish brains, or do you

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Speaker 1: think that's still a focus.

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Speaker 3: I actually just did an interview with Representative Rocanna about

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Speaker 3: this for my podcast is coming out shortly, and I

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Speaker 3: asked him basically like, where the fuck are you guys,

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Speaker 3: like what happened here? And to hear him tell it

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Speaker 3: like they are still working on at the momentum is

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Speaker 3: still there. But I do think from the public's perspective,

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Speaker 3: it has completely disappeared. I think that's resulted in some

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Speaker 3: interesting things happening. So I do think because that investigation,

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Speaker 3: at least from the public's perspective, is unfinished, the country

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Speaker 3: has just sort of assumed that the president is a pedophile,

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Speaker 3: like in a way that I mean, you go to

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Speaker 3: any space of full of young people on the internet

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Speaker 3: right now, and it is just jokes about how the

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Speaker 3: president's a pedofile. I mean, I watched a video today

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Speaker 3: about a roadblocks seizer that created Epstein's Island on roadblocks,

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Speaker 3: and they're just using it to make fun of Trump.

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Speaker 3: Like I think, in a way, not having a definitive

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Speaker 3: answer on what exactly is these Epstein files has allowed

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Speaker 3: the I mean, we just saw that the guy what

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Speaker 3: the Auto Plant called Trump a pedophile protector. Like I think,

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Speaker 3: it has just entered the public consciousness that like Trump

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Speaker 3: at the very least was best friends with Epstein. That

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Speaker 3: doesn't get the victims obviously, any sort of closure, it

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Speaker 3: doesn't help anyone.

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Speaker 1: But it's a bit worse though it is that probably

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Speaker 1: what's in there.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I don't know, but I mean, we.

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Speaker 1: Don't know what's in there. But from what I understand,

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Speaker 1: there's more like financial mouth seasons is more of the issue.

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Speaker 1: But that people just assume the worst is pretty incredible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think because that's hanging over him, he

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Speaker 3: is acting more desperate than usual. I think that is

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Speaker 3: impacting his decision making, if he is even making these decisions,

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Speaker 3: because I think another question mark that hangs over all

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Speaker 3: of this is exactly how active is he in any

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Speaker 3: of this other than ranting on truth social and you know,

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Speaker 3: leaking the text that he's getting from Emmanuel Macron, Like

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Speaker 3: what is his actual involvement in any of these things?

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Speaker 3: And I sort of treat him like a Carnival barker,

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Speaker 3: Like whatever they're doing, he's just going to sort of

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Speaker 3: act like it's his idea and sort of take control

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Speaker 3: of it. But I don't know, I don't know, you

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Speaker 3: know in those closed rooms exactly what the Epstein thing

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Speaker 3: means to them, But they are acting more desperate than

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Speaker 3: they were let's say six months ago.

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Speaker 1: When Trump first became president again, this time he just

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Speaker 1: had this sort of wind at his back, and he

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Speaker 1: had people who had never supported him supporting him. And

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Speaker 1: you had you know, tech billionaires saying like this is

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Speaker 1: it the golden age of innovation? So we've seen that

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Speaker 1: he's just shit about it every which way. You see,

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Speaker 1: his numbers with young people are really bad. I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you see since you do spend along a lot

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Speaker 1: of time on the internet, do you see like Trump

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Speaker 1: regrad or are the conservative influencers so bought in it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter? And do you see them have pushback from

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Speaker 1: their viewers, listeners, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: The thing that worries me about the idea of Trump regret,

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Speaker 3: which I haven't seen. Instead, I've seen something kind of

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Speaker 3: more unsettling, which is there is clearly like a disillusionment

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Speaker 3: and an anger about Trump, And you can see it

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Speaker 3: even on even in far right spaces who don't think

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Speaker 3: he went far enough or he's gotten distracted by side

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Speaker 3: quests according to them that like they're not interested in.

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Speaker 3: Based on what I've seen, I would say that it

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Speaker 3: is like a complete sort of dropping out of politics,

434
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 3: a sort of feeling that nothing can ever be fixed, hopelessness.

435
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 3: And that is where I start to get really frustrated

436
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 3: with the Democrats who have still not really been able

437
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 3: to spin up a new story.

438
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: Those maga people who thought Trump was going to like

439
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: deport all the people don't look like them. Those guys

440
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: are not going to become Democrats of course.

441
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 3: That I'm talking about the young people who may have said, oh,

442
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 3: you know, Trump is promising me a good economy and

443
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 3: jobs and all the rest, and that's gonna be great

444
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 3: for me. And then those people are the same people

445
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 3: who I think are starting to light up around the

446
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: ICE activity that I definitely saw it firsthand in Minneapolis.

447
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 3: I talk to people who have never been to a

448
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 3: protest before and they're being tear gased by ICE agents

449
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 3: in front of the Federal building. Like that, that is happening.

450
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 3: But I do think that there is this question mark

451
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 3: of what now. Okay, Trump didn't work, what now? And

452
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 3: you know, I have the privilege of saying this from

453
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 3: New York, where you have this huge energy around to

454
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 3: our mom DAMMI, and like there is this feeling like, Okay,

455
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 3: maybe there's a path forward with some sort of a

456
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 3: way to get people back. But I think the country

457
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 3: is still kind of not sure, Okay, what happens now?

458
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 3: And maybe it's because they're overloaded by information. The Trump

459
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 3: administration is still very active and still pursuing a million

460
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 3: different avenues. But I think there is a hopelessness and

461
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 3: a question of like what now.

462
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I hate everything, So I just want

463
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: to ask you a question. I am in no way

464
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: endorsing any politician ever at all for the rest of

465
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: my life, because I hate everyone. But I just I'm

466
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: curious Gavin Newsom again, not an endorsement any which way,

467
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: but he did go to Davos.

468
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: He did.

469
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: So you have Donald Trump and Davos, and you do

470
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: have Gavin Newsom being like this fucking guy. So thoughts, questions, prayers.

471
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: Go, I mean, uh, I mean, he's.

472
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 1: Not our politics, but like, is it more of what

473
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: you want that kind of thing pushing back on him

474
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: or do you think I two opportunities that I think

475
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: right now, it's like because you have nothing else.

476
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's like I'm up for anything that feels aggressive

477
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 3: and active. Like you know, I was looking through the

478
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 3: sort of mainstream Democrat response to the ICE insurgency in Minneapolis,

479
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: and I was looking to see, okay, what have people suggested.

480
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 3: So you have you have Representative Richie Torres who thinks

481
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: that we should put QR codes on the ICE agent

482
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 3: so you can scan them like a restaurant menu before

483
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 3: they smash the windows of your car. And then I

484
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 3: think Senator Corey Booker yesterday was like, oh, we should

485
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 3: just train them better and then we should pass the

486
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 3: bill so they have body camps that they can turn off,

487
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 3: but they'll have them. I get the instinct, I get

488
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 3: the impulse to sort of treat this administration like business

489
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 3: as usual that if you are the party of sanity

490
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 3: and and common sense, that the world will turn back

491
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 3: and be fine. And I coming from Minneapolis and being

492
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 3: there for for days and and and seeing what life

493
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 3: is like when a community has been put under the

494
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 3: Trump spotlight the way it has, that makes my blood boil. Yeah,

495
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 3: it makes me feel crazy, because like you are having

496
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 3: school teachers and you're having normal, just average, the most

497
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 3: average American you could imagine, the most quote unquote good

498
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 3: immigrants you could possibly ask for being brutalized now for

499
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 3: for for no reason, and and and I don't know

500
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 3: how as politics as usual can confiss that.

501
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 1: So would you say abolish ice is a center's position now?

502
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 3: I think it has to be. I mean, I've read

503
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 3: all the discourse about whether defund the police was a

504
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 3: good slogan or not, and whether abolished ice is good

505
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 3: or not. All I can say is someone who the

506
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: job I do is like, if I seeing what I've seen,

507
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 3: that can't exist in a healthy democracy. You can't have

508
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 3: masked thugs with assault weapons pointing them at random people

509
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 3: and smashing down their doors with no warrant.

510
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: You don't like a private militia for your president.

511
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 3: I mean, let's try the teeth. I think we as

512
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 3: podcasters should get private militias to protect us.

513
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: Actually, I sure have one. No, listen, I agree, and

514
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: we're completely fucked. Thank you, Ryan, thanks for having me.

515
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: Tina Brown is the author of the sub stack Fresh Hell.

516
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: Welcome Tina, thank you.

517
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 4: It's great to be with you. Molly.

518
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: It's mad, mad world. So it is a very mad

519
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: mad world. And right now as we're talking, Donald Trump

520
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: is in Davos. What is your takeaway of the last

521
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: from the last five hours.

522
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 4: Well, actually, for the first time. You know, I used

523
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 4: to go to Devil's every year for ten years. I

524
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 4: used to do this kind of big woman's dinner, and

525
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 4: when I noticed that there were more private planes on

526
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 4: the tarmac than there were actually women present, this is

527
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 4: the one year I just wish I was there because

528
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 4: it is ethic. I mean, he's on such a rampage.

529
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 4: At least we now know what Susie Wilds meant when

530
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 4: she said that he has an alcoholics personality right because

531
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 4: he is like on a massive bender right now and

532
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 4: it feels like someone has to do an intervention. Maybe

533
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 4: he's like his sponsor in the AA group, you know,

534
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 4: it has to do some kind of intervention because it's like,

535
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 4: because he's so unfettered, because there is nobody stopping him,

536
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 4: he is now let loose on the world in a

537
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 4: way that is truly, truly alarming. And I think part

538
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 4: of it is because he thinks the midterms are coming.

539
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 4: He's got like six months to just be the dinosaur

540
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 4: who can you know, be unchecked. I mean, I love

541
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 4: what Gavin Newsom said today and when he said that

542
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 4: you know that he's a t rex, right, he said,

543
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 4: you make with him, we devise you one of the other.

544
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 4: He's absolutely right. It was a great quote. Actually, I

545
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 4: think Newsom is doing extremely well with the pushback because

546
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 4: it has to be done. Far has to meet with fire,

547
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 4: and unless somebody comes on like Newsom against him, we're sunk.

548
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: We saw a bipartisan group go to Denmark and talk

549
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: to them about the greenland stuff, try to make them

550
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: feel better. All of that was sort of raised by

551
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: Trump admitting then, you know, he no longer has to

552
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: focus on peace. Were you surprised that he said the

553
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: quiet part out loud?

554
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 4: It was quite stunning. I mean, in a way, it

555
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 4: was oddly self reflective. When the new York Times said

556
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 4: to him, is this important into America or psychologically important

557
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 4: to you? He said psychologically to me. So he was

558
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 4: actually admitting that he has this kind of yearning, infantile

559
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 4: sort of neediness to prove that he's zeus. You know,

560
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 4: that he's the biggest power in the world, and that

561
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 4: is a pathology, unfortunately for which we're all paying, right,

562
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 4: I mean, it's like we're all paying the price for

563
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 4: his personal pathology. But he actually admitted it, which was

564
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 4: quite interesting, I thought. And yeah, it did surprise me

565
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 4: actually that he said that.

566
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: In the world when magazines ruled, really, you know, you

567
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: covered all of this, and you knew all of this,

568
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: and you talk to all these people. Are you surprised

569
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: at the cowardice that really has sort of taken over

570
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: the establishment when it comes to Trump.

571
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 4: It's really been shocking, actually, and it's kind of unfathomable.

572
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 4: I almost feel that sort of cowardice is a virus

573
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 4: in some strange ways, just as it has been amazing

574
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 4: to see the Amieba like sort of falling of so

575
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 4: many people who you'd think wouldn't And I mean it's

576
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 4: tough for journalists, as we know, because he's going after

577
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 4: them all the time. But in the end, journalists can

578
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 4: only be as brave as the owners of their publication

579
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 4: allow them to be. I mean, clearly, you can get

580
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 4: on a substack and write what you like, but we

581
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 4: also know that without the institutional backing of of a

582
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 4: strong organization with you know, and a major audience, you're

583
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 4: not going to have the same kind of impact. And

584
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 4: when we saw as we did, you know, ABC folding

585
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 4: you know and paying off Trump in in in the

586
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 4: you know, George Defnopolis lawsuit, and we've seen the same

587
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 4: thing happening with CBS. We've seen Jeff Bezos utterly having

588
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 4: a head transplant in his ownership of The Washington Post.

589
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 4: I mean, these things have been shocking enough and unfortunately

590
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 4: been a really big element in this new sort of

591
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 4: climate of timidity. But I also kind of look at

592
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 4: some of these Republicans who have been the course of

593
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 4: the very worst and stunningly pathetic. It's like you look

594
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 4: at like Mike Mike Johnson sort of sitting behind you know, Trump,

595
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 4: and he's got this kind of pathetic, little schoolboy sort

596
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 4: of sort of smile on his face. And then there

597
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 4: was a wonderful moment that. You know, it was a

598
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 4: great photograph. I wish it'd have been a steel picture

599
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 4: of Lindsey Graham on Air Force One sort of standing

600
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 4: at the door while Trump's standing there at the door

601
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 4: of Air Force One. You know, I kind of remember

602
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 4: which of his tirades it was about Venezuela order. And

603
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 4: he's kind of got a kind of he's wagging his

604
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 4: little tail like a puppy. I mean, he's looking at

605
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 4: big old you know, masterful Trump, you know, the big

606
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 4: master of the universe, and there's a little Lindsey Graham

607
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 4: with his little wagging tail. It is so pathetic. It

608
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 4: shows just how authoritarianism takes root. That that that you know,

609
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 4: if you that there are so many people, you know,

610
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 4: with holes in their wholes essentially, who are looking to

611
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 4: be nominated. I was just reading a very interesting piece

612
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 4: in the Atlantic, you know, about Pam Bondi, about how

613
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 4: she was known as Bambi, you know, because she was

614
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 4: this kind of you know, really nice, cooperative, kind of

615
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 4: not threatening, not not not particularly a list prosecutor, but she,

616
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 4: you know, she had certain communications gifts and no one

617
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 4: can understand how rather like Tucker Carson, she's into this

618
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 4: utterly different person. And of course now you know she's

619
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 4: wanting to do There are no red lines for Pambondy.

620
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 4: You know she will do anything. It's really terrifying. And

621
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 4: you know we will read about the thirties and keep

622
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,240
Speaker 4: asking ourselves how could this happen? How could that happen?

623
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 4: We now see how it can happen. It's a complete virus,

624
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 4: this this fear, and it's very very alarming.

625
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: Indeed, I wonder when we talk about tariffs, like the

626
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: whole point of the tariffs would be entour manufacturing. That's

627
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: not happening because Donald Trump is so you know, he's

628
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: using tariffs in a way that is willy nelly and

629
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: not organized. So people don't want to build factories based

630
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: on what a mad king tweets one day and not another.

631
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: So the central premise of it is faulty. Do you

632
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,479
Speaker 1: think a place like Davos where you have someone come

633
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: in and try to sell an idea that's faulty. Are

634
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: you surprised that there's not anyone in Davos like explaining

635
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: to him that his entire economic principle is not possible.

636
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 4: Well, of course, it's always been absolute madness because it

637
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 4: takes five years to build a factory. I mean, you

638
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 4: know the fact is that people don't want to go

639
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 4: back to that kind of economy. It's like he wants

640
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 4: to put the clock back, not sort of on shore jobs.

641
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 4: Actually he just wants it to be the world of

642
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 4: sort of you know, in the nineteen sixties. And it

643
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 4: just that's again, it's part of his pathology. What I'm

644
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 4: really told about. These captains of the universe who are

645
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 4: all there, they just want to get through the Trump period.

646
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 4: I mean, they they're willing to kind of sit there thinking,

647
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 4: you know, why do I put my head over the parapet,

648
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 4: have my head shot off? My business damaged. I'm going

649
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 4: to wake this out. I'm going to try not to

650
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 4: upset him. I'll give him whatever money he needs for

651
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 4: his you know, for his whatever corrupt thing he's asking for,

652
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 4: and we'll get through this. I think that they're mistaken.

653
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 4: I think that every single time it happens, they enable him.

654
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 4: And this thing recently about the Board of Peace has

655
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 4: been particular, you know, disgusting in my view, the idea

656
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 4: that you know, Trump is supposed to be going to Davos.

657
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 4: That was one of the things to discuss like the

658
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 4: you know, the Board of Peace in Gaza. Well, you know,

659
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 4: he's offered a seat to Putin mass Butcher in Ukraine.

660
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 4: I think it was excellent that Macron, I think it

661
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 4: was today said you know, I don't want to be

662
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 4: on the Board of Peace, and I thought, that's exactly right. Now,

663
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 4: let's see everybody else say no. Then I was crushed

664
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 4: to see that Mark Carney had had agreed to be

665
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 4: on it, a canader of Canada. I think that's a

666
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 4: big mistake. I mean, who wants to be on a

667
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 4: board with Putin and Victor Auburn? And you know, I

668
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 4: think that the only thing for this is there has

669
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 4: to be strength in numbers. That is the only thing

670
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 4: that works. I mean, if every world leader said I

671
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 4: am not going to join your Board of Peace, his

672
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 4: barder piece becomes a sham, an absurdity, a ridiculous thing.

673
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 4: Let's have Kim John Ann on the board of Piece.

674
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 4: You know, it doesn't work. And I think the same

675
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 4: has been true of the media. I think that they

676
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 4: should stood together, not not you know, individually, making these

677
00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 4: these humiliating settlements. Unless you know, people stand together against Trump,

678
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 4: there is no there is no fighting him off. And

679
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 4: we you know, he picks people off individually, as he

680
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 4: has you know with the Republicans.

681
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, And I think I wanna I want to

682
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: mention that the Board of Peace, there's a billion dollar

683
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 1: entry fee right for the Board of Peace.

684
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean he he's treating it like some kind

685
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 4: of absurd, obscene sort of golden tier of golf club

686
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 4: members that you know, mar Lago. It's just another shakedown

687
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 4: like everything else, unless you know, there is an outcry

688
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 4: and a united outcry, this this stuff is going to continue.

689
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 4: Of course, one of the things one must always remember

690
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 4: in power, as it were in life, is that just

691
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 4: when your hubrits has said its maximum, that is when

692
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 4: you make the biggest mistakes and you fall clearly. You know,

693
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 4: Trump was so engaged by you know, the kinetic warfare

694
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 4: stuff he's been doing, you know, the kinetic raids that

695
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 4: you know, the bombing of ford Or which was widely acclaimed,

696
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 4: you know, the Venezuela, you know, snatching a Maduro. He

697
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 4: now thinks that he's invincible. Usually exactly at that moment

698
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 4: is when you make, you know, your biggest mistake. So

699
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 4: I mean he's making at the moment we see them

700
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 4: as biggest mistakes. He doesn't see them as mistakes. But

701
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 4: he's going to have some huge setback very soon that will,

702
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 4: you know, reverse. I think the entire rampage.

703
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because his public polling is as

704
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: bad as it's ever been, and people don't like the

705
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: ice stuff, and nobody trusts him. You know, he's back

706
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: to where he was at the worst moments of his

707
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 1: first term, probably a little bit lower. But I do

708
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: think you're right that to him, he doesn't see it

709
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: that way, and that is, in a way, almost the

710
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: scariest part.

711
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 4: He doesn't see it that way, but he has reason

712
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 4: not to see it that way. I mean, we've been

713
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 4: through these polls before, right, I mean we've always been

714
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 4: hearing about how people don't like this or don't like that.

715
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: I was quite fascinated.

716
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 4: There was rather a good CNN segment with John King

717
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 4: last night with him interviewing people who had voted for

718
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 4: Trump a year ago, what do they feel about him now? Yeah,

719
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 4: there was one woman who really doesn't like what's been

720
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 4: happening very much, but you know there was a lot

721
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 4: who you know, several who did who do like it,

722
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 4: and when we say everybody hates what he's doing.

723
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 3: Lies.

724
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 4: I don't think that's true that everyone hates it. I mean,

725
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 4: I think that there was a very interesting piece in

726
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 4: The Times actually over the weekend, which you know, went

727
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 4: into this bar and in you know, a more rural

728
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 4: area in Minnesota, and they were all basically seeing it

729
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 4: very differently from the towns. So you do again have

730
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 4: this real divide between what everybody quote thinks, you know,

731
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 4: in the urban setting versus what quote everybody thinks in

732
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 4: the rural settings, and they do not see it the

733
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 4: same way.

734
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: I do think that you can only live like that

735
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: for so long. And what I'm thinking about is this

736
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: reporting in the Times about this clean water project in

737
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: Karl where Donald Trump rejected the money they needed to

738
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: finish the pipeline and his voters are all being affected

739
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: by that, and they said something to the effect of, like,

740
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: we trust our guy, like he obviously, you know, like

741
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: the way people talk about God, right, that we trust

742
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: that he has what's best for us in store. But

743
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: don't people eventually lose faith?

744
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 4: Well, the question is when is eventually right? You know?

745
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 4: In this segment where they were interviewing Trump voters, there

746
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 4: was one of them who said, yes, I'm a Trump guy,

747
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 4: like he hasn't like everything that Trump had done, but

748
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 4: he said, I'm more worried about, you know, the Democrats

749
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 4: getting in and that we have to get Trump back

750
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 4: because you know, we have to keep Congress because otherwise

751
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 4: they might impeach himself. He has such a kind of

752
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 4: long rope for forgiveness, it seems from a lot of voters,

753
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 4: and I think that we underestimate that, you know, in

754
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 4: our kind of more urban outlook tremendously. So the question

755
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 4: what is eventually, I'm an eventually, you know, Maduro gets

756
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 4: captured and he's put in prison after you know, everything

757
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 4: that he did to his people in Venezuela. The question

758
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 4: is how long can Trump go on? I mean, will

759
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 4: he do anything to disrupt the midterms, for instance, because

760
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,919
Speaker 4: at this point you can hardly imagine that Trump will

761
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 4: brook any restraint, and the prospect of giving having to

762
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 4: somehow give up that restraint, I kind of it's hard

763
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 4: at the moment to imagine that he will accept it.

764
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 4: And in which case, what is he going to do?

765
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 4: And will he disrupt those those midterms? And then of

766
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 4: course the biggest question is always you know, will he go?

767
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 4: And I think we're all now feeling, well, yes, he

768
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 4: is going to go. I actually think that for Trump,

769
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 4: the whole of his second term has been devoted to

770
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 4: enriching himself. I mean, I actually think he thought, in

771
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 4: my second term, I'm going to leverage the hell out

772
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 4: of this thing. I am going to fill my coffers.

773
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 4: My kids are going to fill their coffers. And it's

774
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 4: all about the big, big fat shape down And that's

775
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 4: actually the way he's been he's been working. So it's

776
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 4: possible that he would just feel, look, I've now got

777
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 4: x billion. You know, before i was a minnow of

778
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 4: a billionaire. Now I'm a massive billionaire. I've got what

779
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 4: I want. And then he'll continue to sort of leverage that,

780
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 4: you know, beyond the presidency. But it's hard to know.

781
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 4: I mean, he seems so kind of incredibly intoxicated and

782
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 4: drunk on power, isn't he at the moment? I mean,

783
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 4: he's he just is engaged with the power, and while

784
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,879
Speaker 4: people continue to fall on their faces before him. I mean,

785
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 4: it's hard to see that he's going to give up

786
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 4: that buzz.

787
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: I want you to talk about CBS News because of

788
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: all the people. I know, I think of you as

789
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 1: one of the You've just seen it all so right,

790
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: and you've written about it, and you've talked about it,

791
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: and you've so David. But David Allison gets to take

792
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 1: over the Dad gives him CBS. He puts in Barry,

793
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: what is your take on what's happened right now there?

794
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 4: Well, the whole kind of Ellison trump a sort of

795
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 4: dynamic is revolting when it comes to the CBS News.

796
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 4: You know, David Ellison, you know, has installed sort of

797
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 4: Barry Weiss, you know, to run the editorial side of it.

798
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 4: I actually think that Barry is a really talented editor,

799
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 4: and I think, you know, I think Free Press is

800
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 4: an incredibly sort of vibrant news platform. Actually, I thought

801
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 4: she made a big of mistake going into CBS, because

802
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 4: it would have been better for her to be the

803
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 4: kind of Ellison guru on the outside than it is

804
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 4: for her to be in the actual sort of line

805
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 4: of fire of these editorial decisions. I think that the

806
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 4: project is ultimately doomed in the sense that I think,

807
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 4: you know, CBS has got is such a kind of

808
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 4: lumbering retro asset at this point that I don't see

809
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 4: how any amount of editorial vim can sort of somehow

810
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 4: turn this thing around at a point when you know

811
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 4: it's actually long past it's kind of moment of relevance

812
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 4: in the big picture of terms in the long term,

813
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 4: and obviously it's a very valuable and important asset at

814
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 4: the moment. But you know that we know that the trajectory,

815
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 4: you know, cannot be be one that in the end

816
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 4: certainly survives in anything like this current form. But I

817
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 4: think that the lessons don't understand news, don't respect news.

818
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 4: And this is what my major beef is with the

819
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 4: with these digital you know, Silicon Valley you know billionaires,

820
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 4: essentially is that they really their arrogance is so complete

821
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 4: they have absolutely no understanding or actually even respect whatever

822
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 4: for journalism none. They do not think it celts, they

823
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 4: don't think it matters. They think it's there to be plundered.

824
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 4: I think that they think it's there to be scraped,

825
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 4: you know, for their AI projects. They just don't seem

826
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 4: to have any moral understanding of what journalism brings to democracy,

827
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 4: how important it is, nor do they want that particularly.

828
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 4: I mean, journalists are a hindrance. Journalists investigate them. Journalists

829
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 4: are pain in the neck. They stop them getting their deals,

830
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 4: et cetera. So they don't like journalists either, and you know,

831
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 4: I find that a very alarming thing. It makes you think, well, okay,

832
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 4: so who should earn these media assets because it's again

833
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 4: it's a question of who can afford to have them,

834
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 4: so you know, I mean, these are the people right

835
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,399
Speaker 4: now with the money, but they are absolutely unfit as

836
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 4: owners of you know, something as important as news platforms,

837
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 4: like news.

838
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: Is clearly in a crisis. And I mean I work

839
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: in this business and everything is just just shrinking and

840
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: drinking and treat It's like shocking. So we need reporting.

841
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: It's nice to have opinion writing. I do opinion writing,

842
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, the reporting is

843
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: the stuff that's going to hold power accountable. In my mind,

844
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: it feels like a failure to legislate, you know, a

845
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: failure to make the kind of tax incentives that make

846
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: this lucrative. Just like why you weren't having filming in

847
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: the United States and movies and television because they weren't

848
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: giving the tax breaks to make it worthwhile. I mean,

849
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: do you think that's what it is or do you

850
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: think it's a deeper something at the core of American

851
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 1: values right now.

852
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 4: No, I mean, I think it's exactly what you say,

853
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 4: a combination of things. I mean, I think in the

854
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 4: early two thousands, the enormous mistake that journalism made, media

855
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 4: made was to allow Zuckerberg and co. To basically come

856
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 4: in and steal the content free and say they just

857
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,399
Speaker 4: took it. And unfortunately, you know, legacy media sat there

858
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 4: being all naive. They were utterly rolled. I mean they went, oh,

859
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 4: it's so exciting to have all this traffic et cetera,

860
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 4: cetera that said, well, look at all this this great uh,

861
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 4: these all these great eyeballs we've got looking at our stuff. Yes,

862
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 4: but you know it was them Silicon Valley that was

863
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 4: monetizing those eyeballs. And so you know, the business model

864
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 4: was essentially blown up in a giant heightst and then

865
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 4: as if it wasn't bad enough, like now sort of

866
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 4: twenty five years later with AI, they're going to do

867
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 4: it again, and the same when we're going they are

868
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 4: doing it again, they're doing it and the same too.

869
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 4: So they're saying, Okay, now we're going to scrape all

870
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 4: your content. You know, copyright is really like we're in

871
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 4: a race with China, so you know, there is no

872
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 4: time for this kind of you know, these kind of

873
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 4: discussions about like who's whose it is if you don't

874
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 4: say yes, I know, we we'll pay you something, but

875
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 4: it won't. I mean, you know, even a couple of

876
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 4: hundred million dollars for you know, for scraping a major

877
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 4: you know news outlets, content is peanuts for them. You know,

878
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 4: absolute peanuts is peanuts for the news outlet when you

879
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 4: consider all the brain power that's going to be sucked

880
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 4: into these AI tools. So you know, they're once again

881
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 4: going to essentially rape the media business. And you know,

882
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 4: the media business does this sort of the news business

883
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 4: does is sit there kind of knowing trying to fight

884
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,399
Speaker 4: back with what what tools do they have? I mean,

885
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 4: thank god we have some strong, you know, serious outlets

886
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 4: that have them wealth to, you know, to do the

887
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 4: great work, whether it's The New York Times or Reuter's

888
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,720
Speaker 4: which does amazing investigations actually and is often not talked

889
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 4: about enough, I think because you know, the Reuters actually

890
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 4: does thanks to David Thompson, who you know, who is

891
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 4: the chairman of Ruters and whose company it is, he

892
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 4: actually believes in journalism. He's one of these quap brillionaires

893
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 4: who who simply, you know, actually does believe in and

894
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 4: the moral point of journalism.

895
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 1: But they're very, very few.

896
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 4: And far between, and so it is, it is an

897
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 4: enormous crisis. And yet at the end of the day,

898
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 4: it's like, what is encouraging perhaps is that some of

899
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 4: the biggest stories in the last you know, some of

900
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 4: the most newsmaking stories in the last few months have

901
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 4: actually come out of those maligned legacy media outlets. I mean,

902
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 4: whether it's you know, Vanity Affairs suddenly having a comeback

903
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 4: with their great you know, Susie Wilds piece, or whether

904
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 4: it's Emma Tucker, who is doing the most amazing work

905
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 4: I think at the Wall Street Journal, you know, publishing

906
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 4: the Epstein birth day book, or you know, they're actually

907
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 4: doing great stuff. Is the truth, and you know, it's

908
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 4: very irritating to the you know, the the powers who

909
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 4: don't want them to report. But we have a lot

910
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 4: of very brave journalists around and some good and some

911
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 4: very good editors around, so you know, I do think

912
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 4: there is a way to keep on being relevant. But

913
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 4: it's it just shouldn't be this hard, and nor should

914
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 4: journalists be so financially sort of punished. I mean, it

915
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 4: blows my mind. You know that incredible talents are willing

916
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 4: to work, to work for so little. Frankly, and I've

917
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 4: got to say I am my journalists hugely. You know,

918
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 4: who are willing to sort of you know, they're not

919
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 4: well paid. It's it's it's very very hard trying to

920
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 4: kind of dig out information, you know, with booth strapping,

921
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,359
Speaker 4: you know, you know, door knocking, you know, the old

922
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 4: fashioned inquiry. It's really really hard. But we need them.

923
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 4: They're the soldiers of democracy, you know, who who stop

924
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,959
Speaker 4: the monsters from taking over.

925
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: Tina, thank you so much for coming on.

926
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 3: A moment.

927
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,359
Speaker 2: Jesse Cannon in the news segment, we were talking about

928
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 2: a little insider trading, and as we know, the greatest

929
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 2: insider trading racket of all time is Congress. And here

930
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 2: we have Senator Mark Wayne Mullen, who serves on the

931
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,280
Speaker 2: Senate Armed Services Committee. He bought oil and defense stocks

932
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 2: days before we went and grabbed Maduroll.

933
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: Yes, Senator Mark Waynteon Mullen, the Cherokee member of the Senate.

934
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: That is the only good thing about him. He's an

935
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: Oklahoma Republican, and he bought between fifteen thousand and fifty

936
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: thousand dollars worth of shares in each company on December

937
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: twenty ninth, less than a week before the US authorities

938
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: captured Maduro on January third. Probably just a coincidence, even

939
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: though he is on the Senate Armed Services Committee and

940
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: he is a Republican to things that make me think

941
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: he perhaps got a heads up from the administration that

942
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,439
Speaker 1: largely only does such a thing. I mean, you'd want

943
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 1: to give him the benefit of the doubt, right, because

944
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: why wouldn't you, But it certainly seems skeedgy. And you

945
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 1: know the stupidest part of this whole thing is you

946
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't have to give him a benefit of the doubt

947
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: if we just did not allow our members of Congress

948
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: to do insider trading. You know, they shouldn't be trading stocks.

949
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 1: This is really easy. This should not be a major thing.

950
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: We should just do this. This is so incredibly easy

951
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: and very annoying that we're here.

952
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a great stockband bill that could be

953
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 2: passed in Congress, and then we have a terrible one

954
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 2: from the Republicans with no teeth.

955
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: Of course, that's it. For this episode of Fast Politics.

956
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear

957
00:51:56,120 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 1: the best minds and politics make sense of all this case. Yes,

958
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: if you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a

959
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.