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Speaker 1: Pastor ed Young is our guest and pastor, as I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: just to kind of signpost for folks, if you can

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Speaker 1: hold with me for just a little longer, I'd first

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Speaker 1: like to talk about some advice for parents and grandparents

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Speaker 1: who are who are involved in the in the rearing

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Speaker 1: of their grandchildren, about how you guide Christians to teach

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Speaker 1: your child about Christmas from the Christian perspective, the life

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Speaker 1: of Christ, the birth of Christ, and not just the

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Speaker 1: words you use and the lessons you use, but the

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Speaker 1: actions you take. Can you can you kind of give

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Speaker 1: some proscriptive, actual guidance there please?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know, actually, in our modern world, we

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Speaker 2: have resorted back to Freud, We resorted back to the

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Speaker 2: progressives and they tell us, you know, how to bring

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Speaker 2: up you children, and we did that partially with my

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Speaker 2: three sons. I can tell you that, you know, we'd

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Speaker 2: go buy the books by this author, by this individual,

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Speaker 2: we would use a spoon to discipline, and we're caught

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Speaker 2: up in the secular human way of raising children. What

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Speaker 2: I've done, Michael, in the past three months, I went

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Speaker 2: back and took the Bible and I just took basic

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Speaker 2: passages of how people would bring up their children at

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Speaker 2: biblical times, and I made it very relevant as to

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Speaker 2: what we do in the area of discipline, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: And I asked my church one time. I said, you

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Speaker 2: know the Bible verse to spare the rod is fall

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Speaker 2: the child, and every hand went up. I said, there's

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Speaker 2: only one problem with that. That's not in the Bible,

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Speaker 2: but we think it is. But it doesn't mean to

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Speaker 2: use the rod in the Bible for your child. It

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Speaker 2: primary doesn't mean we don't discipline. I use the belt.

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Speaker 2: We use a lot of things with my boys, hopefully

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Speaker 2: appropriate at age and situation. But the word rod, they're

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Speaker 2: in Bible, and he talks about the rod, but not

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Speaker 2: in that context is the standard of God's rules and

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Speaker 2: regulations of how you bring up your children quickly from

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Speaker 2: birth until they're too you're the servant and the slaves

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Speaker 2: to the children. Your wife, Michael, with your boys at

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Speaker 2: that period of time, she was a full time slave.

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Speaker 2: But from two to thirteen the world changes, and that's

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Speaker 2: when the parents must become the want of a better word,

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Speaker 2: God in the life of those kids. In other words,

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Speaker 2: you just say. I've heard modern people say, well, don't

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Speaker 2: say just because I told you so. Oh yes. From

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Speaker 2: from three to thirteen, it's just because I told you so.

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Speaker 2: They aren't able to think rationally, and you build into

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Speaker 2: them a respect, a discipline where they're trustworthy. You teach

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Speaker 2: them miners, you teach them all those basic things, and

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Speaker 2: you got a small window there. Now, these ages are

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Speaker 2: not dogmatic, of course, and that is when mom and

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Speaker 2: Dad had become the authority and the life of those kids. Now,

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Speaker 2: from thirteen to eighteen, you begin to teach and of

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Speaker 2: course discipline differently as well. You begin to examine that,

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Speaker 2: you begin to deal with that in their lives because

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Speaker 2: now you reason with them and you talk to them rationally. Yes,

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Speaker 2: this is why we don't do this, this is why

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Speaker 2: our family operates like this, this is why etc. Etc.

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Speaker 2: So we have to understand the segments in the life

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Speaker 2: of our kids. And the Bible is so clear. I've

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Speaker 2: taken each one of those segments, Michael, and I've spent

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Speaker 2: over six weeks just talking about parenting God's way and

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Speaker 2: God's style. Basically, that is it, and it is so

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Speaker 2: fundamental in our day and age. I talk to parents

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Speaker 2: all the time and their kids is say seventeen, and

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Speaker 2: they'll say, you know, I've just lost control of my son.

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Speaker 2: I said, well, I said, let's go back and have

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Speaker 2: a READO. Let's start at three. And that's what happens

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Speaker 2: a lot of parents. And I tell you I have

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Speaker 2: three sons, ten grandchildren. I have five great grandchildren. Michael,

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Speaker 2: I can't believe that, and I'd love to have a redo.

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Speaker 2: I didn't do it all right, I assure you, but

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Speaker 2: I am saying to pride, the biblical principles in parenting

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Speaker 2: would be the revolution in our society as much as

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Speaker 2: any other single thing. And I didn't do them perfectly.

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Speaker 2: But I tried to go back and put that down.

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Speaker 2: And that's a whole different conversation. And it starts, by

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Speaker 2: the way, with the dynamic marriage. Man, if your marriage

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Speaker 2: has chemistry and firepower, and I know your marriage does,

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Speaker 2: and I guarantee that's the basic of it, basis of it. Therefore,

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Speaker 2: the parents own the same page that they never have

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Speaker 2: any controversy there, and that is so important. The best thing, Michael,

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Speaker 2: that I taught my boys is that I was in

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Speaker 2: love with their mother and their mother was in love

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Speaker 2: with me. That's the best training you can live before

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Speaker 2: your kids. Short sermon, but you touch the very important

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Speaker 2: I think right.

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Speaker 1: My mother used to say that a woman can tell

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Speaker 1: what kind of husband you're going to be by how

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Speaker 1: you treat your mother. And my brother Chris and I

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Speaker 1: used to say, Mom, you're just saying that so we'll

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Speaker 1: be nice to you. But it is true.

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Speaker 3: It is true.

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Speaker 1: A man who treats his wife with this spot, a

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Speaker 1: man who does not diminish insult his wife, that's a

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Speaker 1: man that you It's it's going to be good to

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Speaker 1: work with, work for work, beside live Norton, next door

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Speaker 1: to carpool with play ball with. That's going to tell

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Speaker 1: you a lot about that person. It really really is

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Speaker 1: uh and it makes a big difference. It makes a

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Speaker 1: huge difference. I want to get to Israel, and I

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Speaker 1: want to do that in the next segment, but I

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Speaker 1: got about two minutes two and a half minutes left.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you, you know about traditions, because

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Speaker 1: some of our traditions and our rituals and a Southern Baptists,

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Speaker 1: we're not as ritualistic as say our Catholic friends are.

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Speaker 1: But are there some rituals and traditions that you think

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Speaker 1: represent a sort of allegory of an importance to our

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Speaker 1: message and take about three minutes if you would on that.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, we talk about Advent, and that's contrary

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Speaker 2: to mind your background, but I think Advent is a

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Speaker 2: good thing. Advent is the four Sundays. I have to

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Speaker 2: know them, the thirteenth prior to Christmas, and that's the

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Speaker 2: Advent calendar. And each one of those four Sundays, and

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Speaker 2: I will go into the details of that is a

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Speaker 2: good time to look at specific things in which family, friends, hobbies,

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Speaker 2: et cetera takes place. And Advent not only is Advent

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Speaker 2: means coming by the way that which will come, and

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Speaker 2: it's a celebration of Christmas that will come, and it's

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Speaker 2: also a celebration of the second coming of Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 2: Jesus came into time and history and space, and he

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Speaker 2: will come again and bring down the curtain of history.

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Speaker 2: So that is a celebration of Advent, and that's a

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Speaker 2: good tradition. Family years two we have all kinds of traditions,

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Speaker 2: you know. We go to Christmas Eve services, we exchange gifts.

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Speaker 2: We try to put it to a limit there among

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Speaker 2: all the adults, and we read the Christmas story as

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Speaker 2: if we'd never heard it before. And it's just a

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Speaker 2: fun thing for our family. We eat too much and

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Speaker 2: then our calendar, Our tradition is very simple. We have

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Speaker 2: what thirty something Christmas Eve services and our churches in Houston,

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Speaker 2: and when I get through that last Christmas Eve. By

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Speaker 2: the way, this year we have a Christmas Eve Eve

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Speaker 2: service and some we have more Friday and Saturday and

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Speaker 2: then Christmas Eve it's home Sunday. So we really are

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Speaker 2: trying to get it all in. And my tradition is

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Speaker 2: my wife and I now they have empty nests. We

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Speaker 2: get on a plane Christmas morning and we go off

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Speaker 2: and recover. But that's just our tradition for a good

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Speaker 2: number of years. But every family needs those traditions that

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Speaker 2: they practice as best they can, because you know, home

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Speaker 2: is where we want to be Christmas, isn't it, And

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Speaker 2: that's home is where our family is, where our friends are.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of good traditions that I think

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Speaker 2: speak of Christmas Eve that we can celebrate if I

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Speaker 2: had time to go, But that had the calendar that

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Speaker 2: many of the liturgical churches do, which I think is

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Speaker 2: a super thing. Ancidentally, you're listening to.

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Speaker 3: The Michael Berry's show.

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Speaker 1: We are talking with Pastor ed Young of Second Baptist Church,

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Speaker 1: and we've been talking about Christian traditions and being a

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Speaker 1: Christian parent, a Christian spouse, and a Christian in modern America.

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Speaker 1: And you alluded earlier to Israel, and I'm glad you

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Speaker 1: did because it's in the news. There is a war

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Speaker 1: going on, and everybody views Israel differently. Almost all of

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Speaker 1: my Jewish friends view Israel as a tribal homeland of

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Speaker 1: fellow Jews. And they're very protective. I mean, and some

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Speaker 1: people would argue they're more protective of Israel than they

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Speaker 1: would be anywhere in the world. And there's a lot

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Speaker 1: that goes into that. But from your perspective as a Christian,

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Speaker 1: and I know you have preached on this, what is

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Speaker 1: the importance of Israel, modern Israel to a Christian American

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Speaker 1: at Christmas?

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Speaker 2: Well for me and for a lot of Christians today.

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Speaker 2: So many of us have been I've been to Israel,

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Speaker 2: Michael thirty thirty five times with groups and sometimes all

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Speaker 2: kinds of groups, sometimes with Jewish groups, and so I

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Speaker 2: love Israel. When I go to Israel, I've been on

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Speaker 2: the Sea of Galilee. You may have to, by the way,

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Speaker 2: ped we all do you know.

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Speaker 1: But the last time you and I and Lisa were together,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about the trip that you take every year,

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Speaker 1: and you take a group I believe.

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Speaker 4: To Israel. Can you make a pilgrimage out of it?

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Speaker 2: We really do. And it's more fun than you ever

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Speaker 2: have in your life. If it's not, you know, anyway,

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Speaker 2: So you go, the Bible comes alive. We know the

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Speaker 2: Sea of Galilee. I've been on the Sea of Galilee.

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Speaker 2: I fished in the Sea of Galilee. And we just

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Speaker 2: go to all the historic places. Nothing like going to

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Speaker 2: the open tomb, nothing like c And Israel is a

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Speaker 2: a one country, by the way, Michael, you know that

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Speaker 2: it's a fabulous country in and of itself. It's our

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Speaker 2: only real, probably closest thing to a democracy, not only

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Speaker 2: in the Middle East, but maybe any other place. Maybe

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Speaker 2: Great Britain would be there, maybe a couple other countries.

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Speaker 2: But Israel a fabulous country. Is very developed, it's very clean.

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Speaker 2: Their medicine is probably better than ours. Their it is

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Speaker 2: much better than ours. They're a head on a lot

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Speaker 2: of things. And the Jews are fabulous people. You know.

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Speaker 2: Every Jewish boy is either a doctor or a rabbi.

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Speaker 2: And so the inn between their scientists. They're brilliant people.

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Speaker 2: And I can see why God has so blessed in

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Speaker 2: raw talent the Jewish people, because they are to be

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Speaker 2: and they will be one day evangelists of the rest

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Speaker 2: of the world when they see and except Jesus as Messiah.

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Speaker 2: But Israel today is full of so many problems and contradictions.

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Speaker 2: Their political climate is not unlike ours. And I have

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Speaker 2: been there and walked the streets so many many times.

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Speaker 2: It has a special place. A lot of people who

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Speaker 2: are entered eschatology. They're talking about the end times. And

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Speaker 2: I know preachers who take the Bible and say, we're

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Speaker 2: in this phrase and the cup is happening now. And

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Speaker 2: people ask me that, I say, look, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: The Bible says only the Father knows. Jesus doesn't know.

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Speaker 2: The Holy Spirit doesn't know that is on the Father's

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Speaker 2: calendar when he breaks down the curtain of history. Now, Michael,

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Speaker 2: I don't see anything that has to take place in

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Speaker 2: a prophetic way that isn't already in place nineteen forty eight,

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Speaker 2: you know, through Harry Truman, we established the nation of Israel,

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Speaker 2: and so in this conflict we need to realize. Somebody said,

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Speaker 2: Israel is living on stone the land. Well, the Bible

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Speaker 2: is a pretty old book, and the last time I

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Speaker 2: checked it was Palestine was inhabited by the Jews, and

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Speaker 2: so that's a pretty good title, deed. I think as

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Speaker 2: far the distribution that we're seeing now, it is amazing

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Speaker 2: to me, Michael, of how much hatred has come anti

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Speaker 2: Semitism in this moment. And I really have been shocked

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Speaker 2: at that, I really have. And it shows how the

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Speaker 2: left wing progresses in the habit the White House and

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Speaker 2: much of our culture. They don't really have any ideology

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Speaker 2: that's consistent. You know that. I know that. And here

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Speaker 2: you would think, for example, i'd give a Zenian illustration

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Speaker 2: of females. Who gave dignity to females. It is Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 2: He said, you're not male or female, you're not bond

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Speaker 2: or free. He made us all one. By the way, Michael,

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Speaker 2: you need to read. I got a couple of looks

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Speaker 2: you love to reach. I do not believe race is

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Speaker 2: a reality. We'll be divided by race. Race. There's no

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Speaker 2: such thing as race. You can't find race in one

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Speaker 2: page of one word in the Bible. We're all a

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Speaker 2: part of one race, that's a human race. What has

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Speaker 2: the pigmentation of your skin, of my skin, anything else

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Speaker 2: have anything to do with anything? I don't know, it doesn't.

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Speaker 2: So you take all the dividing things out of it.

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Speaker 2: Christ comes and unifies, and that's what he did with

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Speaker 2: that rembant in Israel when he came and establish his

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Speaker 2: body of the Church. So Israel is in trouble. But

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Speaker 2: to give it politically what I believe that in Yahoo

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Speaker 2: and his crews, they're going to take care of these

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Speaker 2: demonic Hamasue people. They're just isis as you know, we

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Speaker 2: born in another the other ideology that's demonic in what

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Speaker 2: it's doing. And those who believe there's some kind of

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Speaker 2: equality between those who would slaughter babies and those who

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Speaker 2: would rake women, and those who would take hostages of

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Speaker 2: twelve thirteen hundred people, you will equate that with some

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Speaker 2: kind of political misunderstanding or misstep of Israel. That is crazy.

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Speaker 2: That's like comparing a typhoon to a sneeze with wind

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Speaker 2: in the air. It's no comparison. And I think that

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Speaker 2: the left part of our political society has been exposed

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Speaker 2: like never never before because of what's happening in Israel.

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Speaker 2: You see all their bigotry, their prejudice, their narrowness. And

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Speaker 2: I could go on and own at this subject. So

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Speaker 2: Israel has a very definite place in the latter days.

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Speaker 2: And the last time I checked Armageddon is in Israel,

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Speaker 2: I had stood right there on the bank and looked

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Speaker 2: at it for myself. So the bottom line, God is

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Speaker 2: up to something. I don't know, to be honest, Michael,

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Speaker 2: if God can salvage the United States, I really don't

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Speaker 2: know that. I hate to say that, I believe it.

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Speaker 2: I'm working that He will come back and free us

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Speaker 2: once again. We established the biblical principles, which the Constitution

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Speaker 2: is absolutely based on. And I'm just praying for our land.

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Speaker 2: I'm praying for Israel, and I just trust that we

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Speaker 2: haven't yet had the great turning to God, the revival

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Speaker 2: of people all shapes, all forms, all backgrounds, all nationalities,

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Speaker 2: all ethnicities. I pray we haven't had that yet, and

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Speaker 2: it will come. And maybe you know, it'll just come

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Speaker 2: around Christmas, when God established himself in human flesh and said,

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Speaker 2: come follow me, receive me, and you'll have a brand

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Speaker 2: new life. Michael, you could take all the leaders of

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Speaker 2: all the countries and all the ideologies, all the theocracies

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Speaker 2: of the world, and they could take Jesus in their

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Speaker 2: life and be forgiven and have a new life. There

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be another problem in this universe. You see, God

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Speaker 2: knew what he was doing. He said, the answer to

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Speaker 2: all this begins with a baby.

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Speaker 1: I love how you brought that back in a perfect circle.

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Speaker 4: You know you are.

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Speaker 1: You are really really good at conveying a message through

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Speaker 1: a story.

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Speaker 4: It's powerful.

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Speaker 2: It is a work for a good company.

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Speaker 1: Michael Pastor, I got thirty seconds before I have to

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Speaker 1: cut off. I'm grateful for you. Tell me one thing

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Speaker 1: about just an insight in you. Tell me one thing

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Speaker 1: about you that you love about Christmas that is not

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Speaker 1: such a serious thing. One thing you look forward to.

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Speaker 2: Ah, I look forward to once in a while giving

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Speaker 2: a gift to one of my kids and my wife

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Speaker 2: and they smile and laugh and say, you know, I've

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Speaker 2: always wanted that. I didn't know it, yep, And I'm

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Speaker 2: working on that. Twenty four to seven. I have some

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Speaker 2: females by gifts for me every year, and you know,

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Speaker 2: and expresses her needs, but it doesn't express my personality.

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Speaker 2: I'm always looking for that, Michael, and once in a

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Speaker 2: while I've done it. By the way, I gave Joe

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Speaker 2: Beth a puppy years ago, King Charles that he left

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Speaker 2: us earth after fourteen years, and that was the best

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Speaker 2: gift I've ever give him to it. I want to

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Speaker 2: find another gift like that, Michael, for my budget.

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Speaker 3: For it's a.

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Speaker 1: Special thing because most of the time it doesn't land

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Speaker 1: like we'd like it to. Pastor ed Young, thank you

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Speaker 1: for making time and sharing your ministry with us today.

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Speaker 2: Michael, God bless you. You bring your wife and family

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Speaker 2: to the Big Show, and I guarantee it they'll love it.

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Speaker 2: We got flying angels and you won't believe it. And

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Speaker 2: we got the largest cast. We'll have five hundred people

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Speaker 2: in the cast and it will be knocking out John

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Speaker 2: fun for everybody.

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Speaker 3: Love.

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Speaker 2: I'd love to have you is Michael.

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Speaker 4: Got to shoot up here amongst just one of us.

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Speaker 1: Got to have some relief, Amen, Michael Barry Show. As

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Speaker 1: some of you know, because I talk about my personal

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Speaker 1: life on the air, it's all I got to talk about,

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Speaker 1: and I share how I interact with the policies and

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Speaker 1: politics that we talk about. Because at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day. These aren't academic discussions, right. If the government

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Speaker 1: takes over our health care, that's going to affect you.

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Speaker 1: And just because you're young and healthy and haven't needed

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Speaker 1: health care yet or recently, you don't realize that, and

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Speaker 1: you see it as some sort of arcane or ethereal

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Speaker 1: existential discussion. But that's not where it is for me.

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Speaker 1: I have a brother who died of the clock shot,

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Speaker 1: a perfectly able bodied law enforcement officer with over thirty

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Speaker 1: years who died of the clock shot January twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: My father is eighty four, and since he was twenty

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Speaker 1: years old and had to be discharged from the Coastguard

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Speaker 1: on his deathbed with a severe case of diabetes and

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Speaker 1: they didn't know how to treat it back then, they

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Speaker 1: sent him home to die, and he read and experimented,

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Speaker 1: and here we are. He's eighty four and still alive,

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Speaker 1: still battling diabetes by the day. He is in constant

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Speaker 1: contact with doctors, and many of them have told me,

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Speaker 1: your dad knows more about diabetes than diabetes doctors do,

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Speaker 1: because in an era before we had proper insulin, he

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Speaker 1: was managing his blood sugar that's unheard of and he

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Speaker 1: still has his vision in all tin of his fingers

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Speaker 1: and toes well. He's a man of great self discipline

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Speaker 1: and the willingness to experiment on himself and get enough

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Speaker 1: sleep and not drink, and you know, do the things

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Speaker 1: that are necessary. And then, of course my mother, five

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Speaker 1: years younger than him, My father was supposed to go first,

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Speaker 1: and my mother would nurse him until the end of

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Speaker 1: his life. And she up and passes on us. And

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Speaker 1: she ended up having als that basically just eventually took

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Speaker 1: over her body and left her unable to breathe. Her

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Speaker 1: lungs just wouldn't function, and it was a horrible, horrible

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Speaker 1: way to go. She died in hospice at our home.

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Speaker 1: I have been in and out of hospitals just with

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Speaker 1: these things so many times over the last few years

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Speaker 1: that I have come to learn a lot about the

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Speaker 1: medical care system. You know, I had a minor stroke

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Speaker 1: on August first, twenty sixteen. I you know, we've all

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Speaker 1: had our medical issues. I'm much better now about taking

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Speaker 1: care of my health and getting my checkups and all that.

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Speaker 1: But the policy issue of how we deliver healthcare in

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Speaker 1: a marketplace of people trying to heal you and provide

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Speaker 1: wellness and prevent all these things. It's gotten. It's all

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Speaker 1: messed up, and I don't think people really even understand

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Speaker 1: why it's all messed up. And so today I would

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Speaker 1: like to step back from the news of the day

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Speaker 1: and address this. There is a fellow who has been

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Speaker 1: highly recommended when I bring these questions up, named Charles Silver.

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Speaker 1: He is the McDonald endowed Share of Civil Procedure at

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Speaker 1: Versity of Texas at Austin School of Law. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if he was there when I was there in

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Speaker 1: the mid nineties. I don't know him, but his work

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Speaker 1: has been widely widely discussed, particularly his book Overcharged, Why

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Speaker 1: Americans pay too much for healthcare. Professor Silver, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the program.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Michael, pleasure to be here.

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Speaker 1: I must first ask you if you were on faculty

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Speaker 1: from ninety three to ninety six when I was there.

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Speaker 3: I was. I started teaching at Texas in nineteen eighty seven.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, okay, well, I was a Lino Graula acolyte

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Speaker 1: and I was the first crop. There were two of

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Speaker 1: us that were sent to England to get an LLM degree,

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Speaker 1: so I was kind of checked out after my second year.

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Speaker 1: Once I had my offer, I was kind of checked out,

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Speaker 1: but I'm sorry that I never met you. I had

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Speaker 1: a wonderful experience at the University of Texas School of Law.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a great university law school, and I am

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Speaker 1: the better for it. So I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: you for being on factory there.

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Speaker 4: It's a great institution.

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Speaker 3: Let's thank you. I'm sorry I didn't get to meet

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Speaker 3: you when you were a student.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, the book overcharged why Americans pay too much for healthcare?

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Speaker 1: If somebody says, Michael, I'm going to come back and

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Speaker 1: listen on the podcast later, but give me the one

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Speaker 1: minute answer, and then let's get granular and dig into this,

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Speaker 1: what's the one minute answer as to why we pay

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Speaker 1: too much for healthcare?

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Speaker 3: The one minute answer, we rely far too heavily on

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Speaker 3: third party payment arrangements, which means insurance companies, Medicare, Medicaid, Tricare, VA,

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Speaker 3: whatever they happen to be, instead of paying for healthcare

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Speaker 3: directly the same way we pay for pretty much everything else, food, cars, housing,

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Speaker 3: You know, we pay for the vast majority of things directly,

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Speaker 3: meaning we pay for them ourselves, and we don't have

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Speaker 3: the problem of excessive spending or inflation or costs, or

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Speaker 3: hidden bills or surprise bills or phony charges. All that

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Speaker 3: worked really well. The one exception is the healthcare sector,

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Speaker 3: where we rely very very extensively on third parties to

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Speaker 3: pay for things, and that just screws everything up. Now,

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Speaker 3: the other thing is we have way too much governmental

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Speaker 3: involvement in the healthcare sector. There are lots and lots

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Speaker 3: of regulations that make things worse for consumers. By and large,

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Speaker 3: the regulations have the purpose of protecting the producers, not

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Speaker 3: the consumers. So we should do a lot less in

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Speaker 3: that way.

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Speaker 4: You did that. You were technically finished at fifty eight seconds.

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Speaker 4: You added an addendum to the end that I will

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Speaker 4: admit will it is admissible in this case. But you

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Speaker 4: achieved the fifty eight seconds. Quite impressed that you did.

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Speaker 1: So let's start drilling down on these things. I got

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Speaker 1: a minute left in this segment, but I have dedicated

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Speaker 1: some time to talk about this because I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are frustrated, especially when they start getting

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Speaker 1: all these bills and they go to the emergency room

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Speaker 1: and the place is packed, and then they can't get

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Speaker 1: in to see a doctor, and then they wonder, you know,

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Speaker 1: Why does something cost ten thousand dollars that took twenty minutes.

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Speaker 1: It just there's nothing else that requires this. It all

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Speaker 1: seems so frustrating to people, and I would like to

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Speaker 1: drill down and get into the actual reasons why this works.

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Speaker 1: Let me start by prefacing, and we'll get to this

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Speaker 1: in the next segment.

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Speaker 4: Because I don't want to have to cut you off.

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Speaker 1: I want to first talk about what if we were

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Speaker 1: to do a zero based budget, we were to go

433
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: back to John Locke's state of nature, and let's start

434
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: all over and have a cash on only health delivery system.

435
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: Let's do away with insurance, and let's talk about who

436
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: the winners and losers out of that would be. And

437
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 1: more importantly, if I'm if I'm a consumer of health services,

438
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: because I don't believe that healthcare is a right. If

439
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: I'm a consumer of health services, would this be better

440
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: or worse for me? So hang tight right there. Our

441
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 1: guest is Professor Charles Silver. I encourage you to read

442
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: the book Overcharged, Why Americans pay too Much.

443
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 2: For health Care Fellers, and you listen to the Michael

444
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 2: Berry show.

445
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: Good that Professor Charles Silver is our guest and has promised.

446
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: At the end, I given him a moment to consider, Professor,

447
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: what if we go back the book is overcharged? Why

448
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: Americans pay too much for health care? What if we

449
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: did away with all insurance and we went cash only?

450
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: How would that change things?

451
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 3: Mean a lot of things for the better, but some

452
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 3: things for the worse. So a lot of things would

453
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 3: be better, you know, we wouldn't have to worry about

454
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 3: things like surprise medical bills where you don't even know

455
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 3: what something is going to cost when you get the

456
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 3: service delivered. There's actually a very large retail health sector.

457
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 3: So if you want to get laser eye surgery, for example,

458
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,719
Speaker 3: you have to pay for that yourself because it's not

459
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 3: covered by insurance typically. But you know what, it's actually

460
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 3: very affordable. And the price for laser surgery. Are you

461
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 3: ready for this? The price has substantially declined since LASIK

462
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,479
Speaker 3: was developed, and it's gotten much better too. There are

463
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 3: new forms of lask and all that has happened because

464
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 3: there is no overlay of insurance. Where where in the

465
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 3: healthcare sector except in the private payment sector can one

466
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 3: find prices that have declined. Now, there are no hospital

467
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 3: services that I'm aware of that cost less now than

468
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 3: they used to. But in the private sector where we

469
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 3: purchase cosmetic surgery, I mentioned Lasik. There's also the Surgery

470
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 3: Center of Oklahoma, which operates on a cash basis. But

471
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 3: there are lots of services that people can buy directly,

472
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 3: and those things that part of the market works incredibly

473
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 3: well with. As I said, we don't have surprise bills.

474
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 3: Everybody knows that they're going to pay before the service

475
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 3: is delivered, and nobody gets billed for more than the price.

476
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 3: The prices are posted, we don't have to have a you.

477
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 3: In the hospital sector, we have this federal Transparity rule

478
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 3: transparency rule that hospitals routinely ignore that's supposed to require

479
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 3: them to post their prices. But in the retail sector,

480
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 3: we don't have that, and everybody posts their prices anyway.

481
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 3: So a lot of things would work better if we

482
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: did that, But the one thing that would work worse

483
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: would be emergencies where you're facing a risk of a

484
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 3: catastrophic cost that you know, people just can't afford to

485
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 3: bear on their own. That's where insurance has a role

486
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 3: to play. Catastrophic costs.

487
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Professor I have long advocated that we should if

488
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: people would understand. For instance, I only have liability insurance

489
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: on my vehicles, and people say you have to No, no, no,

490
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: I pay cash for my vehicles. The only reason people

491
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: are over insured in most cases is because the person

492
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: holding the loan wants you to have insurance for more

493
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: than the value of what they're of what they've loaned

494
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: you money for in case the thing gets burned down

495
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: or trashed, they want their money once. You don't have

496
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: to do that. In my opinion, I'm a safe driver.

497
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: I've never met an insurance claim. In my opinion, it's

498
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: a bad business deal. So what I tell people to

499
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: do is get catastrophic health insurance so when it hits

500
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: fifteen thousand and up, it's good. And then pay cash

501
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: and you'll be shocked how many doctors will discount what

502
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: you get and they're happy to have the cash. I

503
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: go to a doctor named Mary Tally Boden for all

504
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: my upper respiratory stuff, and she's a cash only doctor, which,

505
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: as you know, a lot of people are going to.

506
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: And you go in and you make your payment and

507
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: it's insanely cheap, and then there's no documentation. Later there's

508
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: no you know, insurance letter arrives. Do we pay this? No,

509
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: we wait to pay this. She's happier. She doesn't have

510
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: to have a bunch of billing clerks. You literally pay

511
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: the same way if you bought yogurt there. I think

512
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: this is the answer, Professor, Well.

513
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 3: I agree with you because I go to a doctor

514
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 3: who works on the same basis. So my doctor I

515
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 3: pay a monthly subscription fee too, But I can go

516
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 3: as many times as I want. You know, I don't

517
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 3: need to go all the time, fortunately, but if I

518
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 3: need to go, she usually can see me either that

519
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: day or the next day, and I get some tests

520
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 3: performed in house at no charge, and it's it's a

521
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 3: great working arrangement. Like you, I don't get it. I

522
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: don't worry about my insurance company, you know, not paying

523
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 3: for something. So I think I agree with you. The

524
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 3: cash payment is a very good approach for basic health care.

525
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: So let's have a little history lesson. Professor Charles Silver

526
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: is our guest. The book is called Overcharged, Why Americans

527
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: pay too much for healthcare. Let's go back to wherever

528
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: the starting point is. You want it to be nineteen

529
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: fifty or nineteen seventy, Where did it start going wrong,

530
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: because we all know it's wrong. Now, where did it

531
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: start going wrong?

532
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 3: Oh, that's easy. It started going wrong in the mid

533
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 3: nineteen sixties when Medicare and Medicaid came online. In my book,

534
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 3: I show how doctors and hospitals fees changed after Medicare

535
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 3: and Medicaid took effect in nineteen sixty five, And basically,

536
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 3: both of those statutes initially let doctors and hospitals charged

537
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 3: whatever they wanted for services, and so not surprisingly, they

538
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: started raising their rate immediately. I mean really immediately after

539
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 3: the enactment of those programs, we were beset with health

540
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: care inflation that exceeded the real growth rate of the GDP,

541
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 3: and we have been struggling with healthcare inflation ever since.

542
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 3: But everything about the arrangement is wrong. I mean, who

543
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: in their right minds let's people who are selling things

544
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 3: set their own prices without any market constraints. I mean,

545
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 3: that's a recipe for disaster, right, And then, of course

546
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 3: that couldn't last forever. So the government eventually did get

547
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 3: into the price setting business in Medicare and Medicaid. But

548
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 3: of course we all know that government price setting is terrible.

549
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 3: It never works properly. It's really hard to set good prices,

550
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 3: to set prices accurately. And moreover, the government really doesn't

551
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 3: have the right set of interests. You know, I want.

552
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 3: It's not just the price that matters to me, it's

553
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 3: the convenience. Right. How long do I have to wait

554
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 3: to see my doctor? How friendly is my doctor, How

555
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 3: good is my doctor? There are all these things. Different

556
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 3: doctors should have different prices, and markets can work all

557
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 3: that stuff out, but governments just are notoriously unable to

558
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 3: do that. And so as a result, we've had this

559
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 3: terrible system. And because it's so terrible, it's constantly in

560
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 3: need of patching. I mean, every time I turn around,

561
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 3: there's a new bill, a new proposal being put on

562
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 3: the table for some kind of regulation to fix a

563
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 3: problem that only exists because the government created it. It's

564
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 3: never going to be fixed. It's impossible to fix it.

565
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 3: We really need to just scrap these arrangements and go

566
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 3: back to a simple cash based system for fundamental care,

567
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 3: and then things will start. It will immediately be out

568
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 3: of the spending crisis. The prices will moderate because hospitals

569
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 3: and doctors and drug companies and all that will have

570
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 3: to deal with the realities of the limited budgets of consumers.

571
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 3: They'll also have to face competition. That's hugely important. You know,

572
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 3: one I mentioned the retail health sector. You know, one

573
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 3: of the reasons lasik is cheap is because there are

574
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 3: a lot of laser providers and any ophthalmologists can enter

575
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 3: the field who wants to. So there's a lot of competition,

576
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 3: and competition is good for consumers. So we need to

577
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 3: get rid of these competition frustrating regulations. Let's increase the supply.

578
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 3: Let you know, foreign doctors who can pass American exams

579
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 3: come in and treat people. We need to just open

580
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 3: the floodgates for providers because we have this artificially created shortage.

581
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 3: You know, that's one of the ways that doctors and

582
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 3: hospitals have increased their revenues. It's by preventing new entrants

583
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 3: from coming in and you know, outcompete. So we have

584
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 3: to get rid of all that stuff.

585
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: Professor Charles Silver at the University of Texas School of Law,

586
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: my alma mater, is our guest. This book is overcharged.

587
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: Why Americans pay to dang much for healthcare? I added

588
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: the dang, but I think we all feel it more

589
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: with Professor Silver coming up