1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Tonight. Investigators are pouring over 2 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: evidence and surveillance footage to figure out the major breakdown 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: that allowed Jeffrey Epstein's apparent suicide in his jail cell. 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 1: ABC News has learned guards were supposed to check on 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: the alleged sex trafficker every thirty minutes. Sources say that 6 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: protocol was not followed in the hours before he was discovered. 7 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: It really is an insane system on so many levels. 8 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: Attorney Bruce Parquette represents Epstein's former cellmate who roomed with 9 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: Epstein less than three weeks ago when he was found 10 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: unresponsive with Marx on his neck. What the guards do 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: and what they're supposed to do are almost always two 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: different things, So one has to wonder how it is 13 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: that this man who just tried to take his own 14 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: life by hanging himself a few weeks ago was in 15 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: a position to successfully hang himself. Just six days after 16 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: that first incident, Epstein was taken off suicide watch. Saturday 17 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: morning at six thirty nine, the multi millionaire was found 18 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 1: hanging inside of his self. Who done it? How did 19 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: multi millionaire Jeffrey Epstein charged with multiple counts of sex 20 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: trafficking miners, child abuse on miners. Allegations are as long 21 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: as I seventy five? Who done it? Epstein wheeled out 22 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: dead from a supermax where there were cameras and guards 23 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: supposedly checking on him by the minute. I'mancy Grace, this 24 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: is crime Stories. That was our friend at ABC, Stephanie Ramos. 25 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: You know. Another irritating facet of this, in addition to 26 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: Epstein never being brought to justice, is the media looking 27 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: down their noses at everyone mocking the so called conspiracy 28 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: theories as to how Epstein was killed. I call bs 29 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: on that. In a basically super max holding facility where 30 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: guards are watching you twenty four seven, three sixty five, 31 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: I mean this place has held people like El Chapo, 32 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: al Qaeda, he mat Off, you name it, and they 33 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: let Epstein quote kill himself. Whoa, WHOA? Wasn't he just 34 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: on suicide Watch? How did he just get off suicide Watch? 35 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: I mean, every jail I've ever been in, and that's 36 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: been a lot, I'm not proud to say, doesn't let inmates. 37 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: You wonder why they're wearing footplops because they can't have 38 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: shoelaces to kill themselves or each other. How was Epstein 39 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: given the tools to commit suicide? This is not the 40 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: end to the Epstein case that many people imagine. Joining 41 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: me right now and All Star panel to break it 42 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: down and put it back together again. Ashley Wilcot judge, 43 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: trial lawyer. You can find her Ashley Wilcot dot com. 44 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of 45 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Doctor Karen Stark, psychologist 46 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: at Karen Stark dot com, Joining us out of Manhattan. 47 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: Steve Lampley, former detective, author of Inside the Mind of 48 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: a Serial Killer, Joining me right Now. Crime Online dot 49 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Dave mac Why is it that I 50 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: feel like something was just taken away from me? I 51 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: think it's justice Yancy. The shocking part about this is 52 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: it seems like everybody that's been following this case from 53 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: the moment this guy was arrested, from when they bashed 54 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: in his Manhattan mansion back in the first week of July, 55 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: everyone knew this guy was he was walking dead, either 56 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: by suicide or murder by suicide. Whoa WOA hold it, 57 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: hold it? I don't know if I agree with that 58 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: about suicide because this guy was such an egomaniac. It 59 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:01,119 Speaker 1: was all about him. Apparently he gave his staff orders 60 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: that he required three orgasms today, like having his meals. 61 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: Don't laugh, Jackie, I mean, can you imagine your husband 62 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: jumping up and saying that like he was being brought 63 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: his meals on silver platters? Literally, he required three orgasms today. 64 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: That just doesn't fit in my mind. Now I'm just 65 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: a child lawyer. Hold on, Dave Matt too. Karen Start, 66 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: you're the shrink, Karen Start at Karen Stark dot com 67 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: joining me out of your swanky office in Manhattan. Karen, 68 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: Why does that not fit together in my mind? That 69 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: somebody so egotistical that he literally thought he didn't think it, 70 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: he did it. He could buy people just as his 71 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: own playthings, little girls, and he did it for years. 72 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: He was the puppeteer pulling the strings on Florida sheriffs. 73 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: While he was Quote in jail, he would get out, 74 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: could fly unsupervised to New York, about a short distance 75 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: away from some of the victims schools. He could leave 76 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: the Florida jail for twelve hours at a time unsupervised 77 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: and go to his Quote office and while there. Coincidentally, 78 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: why what a coincidate? All of the visitors' logs to 79 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: show young girls going in and out of his office 80 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: got quote lost. I mean, this is while he's in jail. 81 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: I find very difficult to believe the puppeteer suddenly got 82 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: a fit of remorse and killed himself. It's really hard 83 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: to take in, Nancy, because he just doesn't fit the 84 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: profile of somebody who would do that. I mean, he 85 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: felt so much that he was above the loss and 86 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: used his money to actually have young girls be sleeves 87 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: in this day and age and so, and to have 88 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: all kinds of influence with powerful people. It's really hard 89 00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: to see that somebody was that kind of an eager 90 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,559 Speaker 1: would just crush his own life decide to put it out. 91 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: And there's just too much about the story that's very 92 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: mysterious that doesn't make sense. So I agree with you. 93 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: Not only is it outrageous that nobody has the chance 94 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: now to get any kind of feeling of revenge or 95 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: complence watch him suffer, but it's very hard to believe 96 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: that he did this to himself. And the last thing 97 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: I need is a bunch of know it alls in 98 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: the media telling me not to use my mind and 99 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: consider possibilities other than a suicide. Dave Max, Sorry, I 100 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: got you off track there, But it's also quite a coincidence. 101 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: And you know, Ashley Willcott, as I always say, there's 102 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: no coincidence in criminal law, that this treasure trove of 103 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: documents implicating former presidents that would be Clinton partia with 104 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: Trump having Prince Andrew at a party with his arm 105 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: around a minor girl in a photo. All of these documents, 106 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: thousands of pages of documents were just released, and then 107 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: he turns up dead. Now, I'm certainly not saying that 108 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: Prince Andrew somehow repelled into the facility and killed Epstein. 109 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: I don't think that. I don't think Clinton did it. 110 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: I don't think Trump did it. But I can tell 111 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: you this, when you get a lot of powerful people 112 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: mad at you, when they are looking at criminal charges, 113 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: people will do anything to stay out of jail. Ashley Willcott, absolutely, Nancy, 114 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: are you kidding me? I see it time and time again. Criminals, 115 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: you know, often aren't upset about what they've done. Like 116 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: this man I do not believe has any remorse for 117 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: the many, many crimes. He's a perpetrator that he's committed, 118 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,119 Speaker 1: he would be upset because he was caught and because 119 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: he was put in jail. And remember he is a 120 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: man of many, many resources. Find actually, I think he 121 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: paid off everybody he needed to to do exactly what 122 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: he wanted. Dave mag I want to go back to 123 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: all of the documents that you know what what I'm 124 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: getting ahead of myself? How did this guy quote commit 125 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: suicide when he was understood he had been under suicide watch. 126 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: And even if he wasn't in this supermax where al 127 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: Chapo had stayed, al Qaeda had been housed there, matt 128 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: Off had been housed there, How could he commits suicide? 129 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: How was he just coincidentally not watched at that moment? 130 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, by their rules and by the description 131 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: I've seen from that cell, it's an impossibility. There's no 132 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: way the guy can commit suicide. From the clothing they 133 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: gave him, to the type of sheet that he had 134 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: to cover himself with while he slept. It was described 135 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: as something a little bit thicker than paper, but not 136 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: strong enough to hold the weight of an individual. But 137 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: there's nothing to tie onto. This is not like Maybury's cell, 138 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: where Otis can pull the bars. There are no bars 139 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: in this cell. There's no light fixture. There is nothing 140 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: that you can tie onto if you had something to 141 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: tie up and make a news. So you've got an 142 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,119 Speaker 1: impossible situation being sold to the public as a reality. 143 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: His former cell mate said, there was no way this 144 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: could happen. Now. The guards are supposed to be poking 145 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: in looking in on him every couple of minutes. They 146 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: claimed that he was no longer on suicide watch. And 147 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: even under those rules, okay, even under the rules of 148 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: non suicide watch, they were supposed to be viewed physically 149 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: viewed every twenty minutes. So even under the most lenient 150 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: of rules for guarding them in this particular cell, there 151 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: was no way to actually commit suicide. Crime stories with 152 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Epstein's apparent suicide comes one day after thousands 153 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: of pages of documents in a civil case between Virginia 154 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: Goufray and Galaine Maxwell were unsealed. The court documents, Guffrey, 155 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: an alleged victim of Epstein, accused Maxwell, Epstein's ex girlfriend, 156 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: of directing her to have sex with several politically connected 157 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: and financially powerful men when she was a miner. Guffrey 158 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: was among the most vocal of Epstein's alleged victims. You know, 159 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: before you know it, I'm being lent out to politicians 160 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: and to academics and people that royalty. You're hearing our 161 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: friend at CBS that was Molo Lenji. Wow, powerful people, 162 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: president's ex president's government members, royalty, academics. But what about 163 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: the victims in this case, and we know there are 164 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: so many of them. There are just a lot of 165 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: people that are yes, angry, and livid. Michelle Lecata says 166 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: Epstein sexually assaulted her when she was just sixteen. She 167 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: and other accusers are outraged he will not face a 168 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: criminal trial. I really wanted justice. I really wanted him 169 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: to take up for what he did and to be 170 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: put in jail or prison and have to sit there 171 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: and think about what it is he exactly did to 172 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: so many people. Tonight, authorities are pledging to continue the investigation. 173 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: Epstein's death comes less than twenty four hours after two 174 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: thousand pages of new documents were made public. You're screaming 175 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: on the inside, and you don't know how to let 176 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: it come out. All you do is obey. Virginia Roberts 177 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: guphrase twenty fifteen defamation suit was unsealed against Ghilain Maxwell, 178 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: a long time Epstein associate. In deposition testimony, Guphrase says 179 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: that Maxwell recruited her to be a teenage sex slave 180 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: to Epstein give Jeffrey what he wants. A lot of 181 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: this training came from Ghilin herself. Maxwell has not been 182 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: charged with any crimes. She has consistently denied the allegations. Tonight, 183 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: accusers are calling for those who enabled Epstein to be 184 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: held accountable. You're hearing our friend at ABC. That was 185 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: Stephanie Ramos. In the last hours the facts surrounding the 186 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: abrupt end of the Jeffrey Epstein case. Epstein found dead 187 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: in his jail celle questions swirling. The jail where the 188 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: disgraced millionaire Jeffrey Epstein was found dead was quote short staffed. 189 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: I want to circle back on all of those documents 190 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: that were just released, thousands of pages of documents. What 191 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: do we know about that Dave matt In the two 192 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: thousand pages that were just released less than twenty four 193 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: hours before his death, the documents talked, they named names. 194 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: It was the document people had really been watching for. 195 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: The document is between one of the victims, a girl 196 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: who was just seventeen years old when she was recruited 197 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: to give Epstein a massage that was blurred into and 198 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: pushed by Maxwell, Epstein's girlfriend. That lawsuit was a couple 199 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: of years ago. This paperwork, over two thousand pages, named 200 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: names by this first victim. She's been the loudest one 201 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: and has named names of people and how she was recruited, 202 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: how she was abused, and how she was raped time 203 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: and time again by some of the most famous people 204 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 1: in the world of politics. And it was all released, 205 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: like I said, less than twenty four hours before Epstein's 206 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: dead body. Well, everybody's in dudo on this one because 207 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: we now know there were claims that the Obama administration, 208 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: in order to protect Clinton, made that secret deal in 209 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight that allowed him to plead guilty 210 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:23,959 Speaker 1: to one one tiny soliciting minor for prostitution. Okay, that's 211 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: not true. The deal was actually created before Obama took 212 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: office under Bush and then it went through during Obama. Okay, 213 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: And it implicates These documents implicate Clinton. And there are 214 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: photos of Trump partying with Epstein. I mean, you could 215 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: put all these guys on the side of a mountain 216 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 1: at Rushmore for Pete's sake. But long story short, nobody 217 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: thinks that any of these people had a hand in 218 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: Epstein's death. But what happened, And as it turns out, 219 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: the photo was manipulated, shared by thousands, falsely claiming to 220 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: show Epstein with Trump and the young Ivanka, the president's daughter. 221 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: So this has gone through so many crazy while conspiracy theory, 222 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: manipulations and distortions and false, false facts. It's hard to 223 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: find the truth. But I know this, I don't care 224 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: what some troll puts online or how they manipulate a photo. 225 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: To Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert author of Blood Beneath 226 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: My Feet Jackie here in the studio, first thing she says, 227 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: and granted she's just a radio expert, but how do 228 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: you commit suicide by hanging and end up on the 229 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: floor in a fetal position. That's certainly food for thought, 230 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Yeah, it is. And you know, one of 231 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: the things that's coming out of this information, they keep 232 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: using the term hanging, hanging, hanging. I've seen this over 233 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: and over and over again. And Nancy, I've worked a 234 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: lot of jailhouse desks. As we're referred to them ass 235 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: but in this particular sale, as Dave was talking about 236 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: just a second ago, we have to keep it mind 237 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: that all people at home. I don't know if you've 238 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: if people at home, have ever visited the interior of 239 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: a correctional facility. I've been in many. I hope not 240 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: to Nancy, because they're they're a horrible place. But all 241 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: of the surfaces in there are smooth. Even say, for instance, 242 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: the spickets that the water comes out of. Many times 243 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: those things are flushed with a wall so you can't 244 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: tie off onto them. The beds themselves have smooth surfaces. 245 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: It's not like a bed frame that you might think 246 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: of in your home. And you know, that's what makes 247 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: this this is what's such a head scratcher in this environment, 248 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: that the environment is very, very stark, you know, when 249 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: you go in there, so you think about how in 250 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: the world could somebody physically do this. I was taking 251 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: a look at the images of his body being rolled 252 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: in when the fire department is bringing him into the 253 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: emergency room, and Nancy, the only thing the first thing 254 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: I thought was, well, maybe maybe he used his pants 255 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: to hang himself with, because that's actually kind of common 256 00:15:58,200 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, they're where the orange scrub pants. You can 257 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: make a ligature out of this, put around your neck 258 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: and hang yourself with it on Nancy. In the image, 259 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: he's wearing his scrub pants. Maybe he took his shirt. 260 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: What looks like there's something there. I don't even see 261 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: that they've cut the shirt away in order to do 262 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: cardiac you know, resuscitation on him. So I'm I'm kind 263 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: of left here thinking, well, what in the heck is 264 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: going on? They did the autopsy yesterday, and I do 265 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: know this Epstein's group that you know, kind of supports him, 266 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: his attorneys and this sort of thing. They did hire 267 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: doctor Michael Boden to come in and be present at 268 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: the autopsy, as the Office of the CHEF Chief Medical 269 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: Examiner for New York was actually doing the autopsy. So 270 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: we're gonna have multiple eyes on the autopsy. They're saying 271 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: that it's pending. We'll see what the toxicology says, because 272 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: that's what they claim they're waiting on. We'll hold it 273 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: right there. How come they can't look at him and 274 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: say he hung himself? What's the hold up? Why do 275 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: they keep saying quote apparent suicide. Why can't they come 276 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: out and say suicide or no suicide, and I'm glad 277 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: they've got Boden there. I'm glad they have two eyes 278 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: on it. I hope the New York Medical Examiner doesn't 279 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: take any offense to that. Not that I carried a Scott. 280 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: This is the other thing, Nancy. Think back July twenty third, 281 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: and this is what's really really troubling for me. There 282 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: was an incident in the jail where they claimed again 283 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: that some kind of harm had come to his neck, 284 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 1: and they've never been really specific. I've heard the term 285 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: hanging come out, and then I've heard this kind of 286 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: generalized term of he sustained neck trauma. One of the 287 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: things they would have been looking for at the autopsy 288 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: is they would have been able to what we refer 289 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: to in the autopsy suite as reflecting the neck. That 290 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: means that you go down to the multiple layers of 291 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: tissue and they'll look and they'll see if there was 292 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: actually a pre existing injury on top of what he 293 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: may have sustained over the weekend this past weekend, to 294 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: see if that is actually resolving or healing, and then 295 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: they'll go forward and look at the new autopsy results. 296 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: Boden would have been there for this, as well as 297 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: probably doctor Sampson, who's the chief medical examiner, who's highly 298 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: respected for the City of New York. And they're gonna 299 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: look at this, but there are so many physical indicators 300 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: here that they have to take a look at very carefully. 301 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: These autopsies take hours, Nancy. Everything is dissected to look 302 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: and see if there's hemorrhage, if anybody has done harm 303 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: to him. This is going to be very very thorough, 304 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: and that's why they will have to go over every 305 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: jot and tittle. Keep in mind, the toxicology results are 306 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: just one small piece of this. They're gonna look at 307 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: microscopic tissues, this sort of thing. I'm going to be 308 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: very curious and I'd love to hear what Caring thinks 309 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: about this relative to what type of medications he was on, 310 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: to find out if he was being given his meds, 311 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: if he's in a major state of depression, you know, 312 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: all of these other factors that come into this. I 313 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: want to know who the mental health people were that 314 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: were taking care of him and who took him off 315 00:18:52,640 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: of suicide watch. I am deadicated my life to crime victims, 316 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: to giving a voice to those who can no longer 317 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,719 Speaker 1: speak for themselves. And that is why I work with 318 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: Oxygen to create a new show. Injustice with Nancy Grace. 319 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: We investigate cases that I believe never got it right, 320 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: from wrongly accused to botched investigations, to unclear motives to 321 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: unjust sentences. I don't just cover cases, I solve them. 322 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: I put my heart and soul in it. Dig deep, 323 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,959 Speaker 1: look at the background, at the crime scene, at the families, 324 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 1: at the witnesses. I look at every tiny detail because 325 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: what matters to me is justice. Join us in our 326 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: search for the truth. Injustice with Nancy Grace watch now 327 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: on demand and every Saturday at six five Central only 328 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: on Oxygen, the true network for crime Crime Stories with 329 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Epstein was inside the Special Housing Unit, a 330 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: part of the Metropolitan Correctional Center, where he was held 331 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: without bail for the last several weeks as he faced 332 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: federal sex trafficking charges. Just two weeks ago, Epstein was 333 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: found unconscious on the floor of his jail cell. Arrested 334 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: on July sixth, Epstein pleaded not guilty to charges that 335 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: he enticed, recruited, and molested dozens of young girls at 336 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: his homes in New York and Florida. Epstein's federal charges 337 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: came more than a decade after his legal team struck 338 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: a secret deal with federal prosecutors in Florida, who allowed 339 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 1: him to plead guilty to two lesser sex charges in 340 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: state court. He served just thirteen months in a county 341 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: jail and was granted work release. A trial date had 342 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: been set for June of twenty twenty. We last saw 343 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: Epstein in court on July thirty first, during a procedural 344 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: hearing in the Southern District of New York. He appeared tired, deflated, 345 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: and noticeably thinner. You're hearing our friends at CBS that 346 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: was Mola Lingji Epstein dead? Who done it? You know, 347 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: I can't break it down any more simply than that, 348 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: and that is what is on everyone's mind, especially the 349 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: fleet of then minor sex attack victims. Straight out to 350 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: Steve Lampley, former detective author of Inside the Mind of 351 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: a Serial Killer, Steve, I know you have analyzed this 352 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: every which way, but loose weight in there. There's so 353 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: many questions, so many unanswered questions. There are so many possibilities. 354 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: How does like Joe said, it like Joseph said a 355 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: while ago, how do you hang yourself in a cell 356 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: that's smooth? And every person I've ever arrested there was suicidal. Really, 357 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: this is a to the municipal level. Man said, this 358 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: is not even a or the federal level. But every 359 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: single one individual I arrested that was suicidal was brought 360 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: into the jail strip, body cavity search, just to make sure, 361 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: given a paper gown, put in a jail cell by 362 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: themselves under twenty four seven camera observation. And I saw 363 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: with a with a bad stainless still bad mounted. We 364 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: can't be moved, you can't look anything to it, a 365 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: stainless still put seat combination, like like Joseph's cy Mortgage said, 366 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: with the spike up in the wall, you can't hang yourself. Nancy, 367 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: you know another issue is Epstein himself, according to reports, 368 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: claimed someone tried to kill him before he died. What 369 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: do we know about that, Dave? Then, well we know 370 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: is what we've already mentioned about the attack on the 371 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: twenty twenty fourth of July, and he claimed then wait 372 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. That was 373 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: deemed well, it was reported as a suicide attempt and 374 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: that's why he went on suicide watch. It was after 375 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: that just heard you say attack go ahead, Yes, ma'am, 376 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. It was after that alleged suicide attempt around 377 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: the twenty fourth, when he was put on suicide watch 378 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 1: that he alluded to that he'd actually told his cellmate 379 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: and maybe a few others were not sure, but at 380 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: least his cellmate that somebody had tried to kill him. 381 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: He thought somebody was trying to hurt him. Now, think 382 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: about this, Nancy, He was supposed to have a cellmate 383 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: the entire time, even after he came off suicide watch. 384 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: That the warden made that decision, by the way, the 385 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: warden himself moved him off suicide watch, and then hours 386 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: before his body was found, his roommate was moved out 387 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: of the cell without any kind of justification and without 388 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: any warning. Okay, I want to go through that again 389 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: because the big question right now, why wasn't team more 390 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: closely monitored, especially given his apparent suicide attempt just twelve 391 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: days prior. And Joseph Scott Morgan, you've dealt with a 392 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: lot of gelhouse deaths. What can you tell me about 393 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: suicide Watch? I was stunned to find out he was 394 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: taken off watch. Well, ideally, yeah, I was too, Nancy, 395 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: ideally would suicide Watch. First off, at the federal level 396 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: like this, they're supposed to have camera monitoring that's taking 397 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: place within the cell cell, a tiny camera that is 398 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: what referred to. It's like a fish eye camera that's 399 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: embedded in the ceiling that's smoothed through the surface and 400 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: you can see in. Well, first off, they're saying that 401 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: there was no camera that was functioning, which is just 402 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: an absolute shock to me. And since he was no 403 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: longer on Suicide Watch, he was in a cell that 404 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: was being monitored externally, so even the external camera wasn't 405 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: working on this, which again is a huge red flag 406 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: for me. Are you don't aren't you convinced as I am, 407 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: that they do have camera surveillance in the cells. I mean, 408 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: you can't put a member of al Qaeda in a 409 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 1: jail cell without a camera, and ideally you would hope 410 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: that they would. But from what I am hearing right now, 411 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: there is no video surveillance of the interior of his cell. 412 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: And I have also heard that the camera was quote 413 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: unquote big air quotes here not functioning. Outside the cell, 414 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: and that is very troubling to me. With suicide Watch 415 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: in particular, many times you're issued what's called a suicide blanket, 416 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: which is very very thick. It's not something you can 417 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: if people will just imagine trying to fashion a rope 418 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: out of a sheet or a blanket. You can't do 419 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: this with a suicide blanket. It provides warmth, but you 420 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: can't manipulate lated. It's very very thick. Also, in suicide situations, 421 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: they will put you in like a paper gown. Okay, 422 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: that is not that's not sufficient again to make a 423 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 1: ligature out of. And in some cases where people are 424 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: severely like just raging, they'll take them and they'll put 425 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: them in. It's hard to describe. People can kind of 426 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: look this up online, but it's it's like a it's 427 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: a it's a gown that covers the body that is 428 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: very very rigid and hard. It almost looks quilted. You 429 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: can't manipulate this thing. So aside from that, you have 430 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: to have guards that are walking the post that a 431 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: physically eyes one along with the camera. You'll you'll actually 432 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: have somebody that will pass by the door walking their 433 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: post and they'll look in the porthole to physically see 434 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: that patient or prisoner inside of that suicide watch area. 435 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: It's a specific area that set aside for this specific 436 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: reason because there's a lot of people that are troubled 437 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: that go to jail, that have mental issues, so they 438 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: have to have a specific area for this. He wasn't 439 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: in this area. He wasn't in this area. And what's 440 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: so striking is a fact that back what happened July third, 441 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: How in the world, How in the world can you 442 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: take this golf of suicide watch. It just it absolutely 443 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: blows my mind in this particular case, because there's so 444 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 1: much riding on this case. So this is what we know. 445 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: The warden himself took Epstein off suicide watch hours before 446 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: the alleged suicide. His roommate was moved out of his 447 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: jail cell. We know that there was no function camera 448 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: in the jail cell and apparently the camera out and 449 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: what we would call the hallway was quote not functioning. 450 00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: What about guards. Aren't they supposed to be monitoring what's 451 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: happening in the jail cell. What happened to them? How 452 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 1: is it so coincidentally that everything isn't working or doesn't 453 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: happen according to SOP standard operating procedure at the moment, 454 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: Epstein commits suicide crime stories with Nancy Grace. Shortly after 455 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in his jail cell, President 456 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: Trump retweeted this video from a conservative commentator for some 457 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: odd reason, people that have information on the Clinton's end 458 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: up dead, and they usually die from suicide. Former President 459 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton was also once friendly with Epstein. But there 460 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: is no evidence at all to support the conspiracy theory 461 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: the president is fueling. Why did the President then retweet 462 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: that Clinton suggestion? I think the President just wants everything 463 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: to be investigated it. In a statement to Clinton spokesman said, 464 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: the suggestion that the Clintons were involved is ridiculous and 465 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: of course not true. You're hearing our friends at CBS 466 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: News that was Ben Tracy. Theories abounding, but everyone in 467 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: their gut is saying who did it? Because, as Jackie 468 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: here in the studio points out, she's right, the warden, yes, 469 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: took Epstein off suicide Watch, but his shrink that had 470 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: been treating him advise the warden to take him off 471 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: suicide Watch. So the warden did, and I mean follow 472 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: that line of thought. Through to its logical conclusion. If 473 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,719 Speaker 1: the shrink thinks he should be taken off suicide watch, 474 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: does that mean he most likely did not commit suicide. 475 00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: His frame of mind was not suicide. Let me understand this, 476 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: Dave Matt. You're telling me that the warden takes him 477 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: off suicide watch. Did you say that his cellmate was 478 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: moved out? How many hours before the apparent suicide? Nine 479 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: hours before his body was found? His cellmate was actually 480 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: moved out without any kind of explanation whatsoever. And you're 481 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: saying there's no functioning camera in the jail cell and 482 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: the one out in for lack of a better word, 483 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: the hallway was not working. What about manual walk buys? 484 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: Aren't they supposed to be walking by every thirty minutes 485 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: or less? Yes, it's in. The amazing part about this, Nancy, 486 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: is the excuse that they are giving about the man 487 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: the guards walking past is that they claimed there were 488 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: two guards assigned to this block that we're supposed to 489 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: be patrolling. But you know, their excuse has been, well, 490 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: they're working a lot of overtime. One of the guards 491 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: had been on for five straight days and another guy 492 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: was working overtime, and they didn't do their job. Apparently okay. 493 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: These guards were to be looking in on Epstein and 494 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: the other inmates cell every thirty minutes, but did not 495 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: follow procedure, one guard whining it was his fifth day 496 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: of overtime, all right, the second that he was forced 497 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: to work overtime. There's no video of the moment he 498 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: died because cameras do not point into the inmates cells. 499 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: He had been removed from suicide Watch at the time 500 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: of his death. Ed has sparked wide spread anger. We've 501 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: all seen the photos of Epstein's body being willed into 502 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: a hospital moments before he's pronounced dead. He was wearing 503 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: his shirt and pants, So what did he hang himself with. 504 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: He's wearing that orange jumpsuit and what appears to be 505 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: a brace around his neck as he is pushed on 506 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: a gurney into New York's Presbyterian Lower Manhattan Hospital, and 507 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: one image, paramedics looked like they're trying to revive him. 508 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: According to The Washington Post, Epstein had been left in 509 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: himself for hours alone, when the guards were supposed to 510 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: be looking in on him every half hour. At the least. 511 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: No one understands why the cellmate was transferred. Nothing is 512 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: really fitting together. Now we know Michael Biden, who was 513 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: the city's chief medical examiners, has been called in to 514 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,479 Speaker 1: witness the autopsy. I don't understand what the hold up is, 515 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: but I know this, the victims may still have a 516 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: course of action. And what about Gillan Maxwell? What's the 517 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: story with her? Did she facilitate the attacks on young girls? 518 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: Now we know Epstein suicide coas just twenty four hours 519 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: after court documents implicating very powerful players were unsealed. Is 520 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: the timing of his death suspicious? What about it? Ashley 521 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: Wilcott Ashley Wilcott joining me judge, trial lawyer. You can 522 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: find her at Ashley Wilcot dot com. I know the 523 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: pseudo intellectuals are poo pooing any theory but suicide. But 524 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: the timing doesn't lie, Ashley. Is it suspicious? Absolutely? All 525 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: of these things together a suspicious. Let me tell you 526 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: in my experience, V on the bench, and you have 527 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: one coincidence, like you always put up, point out Nancy, 528 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: he really a coincidence. But when you have these many 529 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: things adding up to it doesn't smell right. It doesn't 530 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: pass the smell test. It's absolutely suspicious. I do not 531 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: believe that it was a simple suicide. Again, remember, you know, 532 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: a jail is a microcosm of our society, So it's 533 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: not as if it's perfectly run and all of the 534 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: safeguards are in place. Instead, rather, there are human that 535 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: are there that will do whatever they need to do 536 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: to survive or choose not to survive. I have no 537 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: doubt that he it was either a murder that he 538 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: paid people off to do what he wanted to do. 539 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: There is so much more to this story. It is 540 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: past suspicious, and it's gonna go much much deeper than 541 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: any of us can anticipate because guess what, there are 542 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: people responsible involved. I have no doubt, and that will 543 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: come to light with an investigation. Well, I can tell 544 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: you this much. It ain't over yet. Take a listen 545 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,399 Speaker 1: to NBC's Kathy park Well. Epstein's death marks the end 546 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: of the criminal case against him. Today, the US attorney 547 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: said the investigation remains ongoing. Legal experts citing longtime Epstein 548 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: associates like Gallaine Maxwell, who has not been charged, as 549 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: possible focal points. Given statements made in documents just made public, 550 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: Those people may be investigated by the federal government, and 551 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: anything that they lawfully found in terms of documents at 552 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: Epstein's home can be used in additional government investigations. Epstein's 553 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: alleged victims can also continue with civil lawsuits against the 554 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: financier's estate. I am calling today on behalf of his victims, 555 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: for the administrator of his estate to freeze all of 556 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: his assets and not disperse them civil cases. Perhaps a 557 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: meager consolation to the many women who hope to see 558 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: Epstein have his day in court. I want you to 559 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: take a listen to NBC reporter Stephanie Gospe. Then underage 560 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: girls say they were lured by the cash. My mother 561 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: was on drugs at the time and she can have 562 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: provide for me, and I was pretty much homeless fromer. 563 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: Palm Beach Police Chief Michael Ryders says many of the 564 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 1: girls didn't know each other but had the same story. 565 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,280 Speaker 1: We believe that this would end up in a prosecution 566 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 1: that would incarcerate mister Epstein for the remainder of his life. 567 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: Federal prosecutors even had a fifty three page indictment ready 568 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: to go, according to a court filing. But Epstein, a 569 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,280 Speaker 1: hedge fund manager who famously piled around with Donald Trump, 570 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton, and Prince Andrew never faced those serious charges. Instead, 571 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: a plea deal was struck. He pleaded guilty to two 572 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: counts related to solicitation of prostitution and only served thirteen 573 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: months in a county jail. You're hearing our France, Stephanie Goskett, 574 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 1: NBC It a over yet, Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing 575 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: off goodbye friend