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Speaker 1: All right, we're back for another edition of the Frida

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Speaker 1: Egg Podcast. We've got a second one in the last

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Speaker 1: seven days. Here. This time, we're going to change speeds

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Speaker 1: and go into one of my favorite realms of golf,

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Speaker 1: golf course architecture, and with us as a guest. We've

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Speaker 1: got Rob Collins who's a golf course architect based out

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Speaker 1: of Chattanooga, Tennessee, and he and his partner Ted King

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Speaker 1: are responsible for the nine hole masterpiece Sweeten's Cove. Sweeten's

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Speaker 1: Cove has a cult like following amongst architecture fans, and

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Speaker 1: we're really happy to have Rob on.

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Speaker 2: Great to be here. I'm thrilled to be on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate yet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, I mean it's uh. I got the chance

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Speaker 1: to play Sweeten's Cove in May of this year down

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Speaker 1: in Knoxville for a wedding, and yuh saw that chat

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Speaker 1: Nuga was only about two hours away and knew I

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Speaker 1: could squeeze in nine holes if I got on the

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Speaker 1: road about five forty five and got it done, and

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Speaker 1: it was. It was a experience that kind of changes

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Speaker 1: the way you think about golf. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: you look at a lot of different people and their

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Speaker 1: opinion on it, and that, you know, the resounding opinion

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Speaker 1: seems to be that it changes the way that you

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Speaker 1: think about golf. And you know, one of the worst

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Speaker 1: things about Sweeten's Cove is generally leaving. So congrats doing

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Speaker 1: a great job there. It's been fun to kind of

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Speaker 1: watch all these new people's opinion and I'm sure you

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Speaker 1: get the same satisfaction.

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Speaker 2: Oh, we really do. It's been a thrill. I was

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Speaker 2: thinking today. We started checking back and forth a little

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Speaker 2: bit about the podcast. You know, when we were building

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Speaker 2: sweet co I could tell, you know, early on that

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Speaker 2: it was really good. It was really really good, and

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Speaker 2: I was really really excited about it. But I can't

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Speaker 2: I don't. And I knew that it would speak on

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Speaker 2: a kind of a deep level to a lot of people,

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Speaker 2: to a certain steps of people. I thought there was

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Speaker 2: as the market out there for it, and that it would,

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Speaker 2: like I said, it would really feel strongly to a

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Speaker 2: certain stuff that of the golf population. So that wasn't

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Speaker 2: really a surprise that the amount of sublicity that we've

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Speaker 2: gotten out of it and the degree to which we've

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Speaker 2: you know, received a lot of you know, kind remarks

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Speaker 2: and great publicity and everything else is exceeded my expectations.

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Speaker 2: So we're really really pleased with everything, and it's it's

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Speaker 2: the thrill to see it continue to grow and continue

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Speaker 2: to get more attention, and it means the world for

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Speaker 2: me to see people react to it that way. When

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Speaker 2: we were out there doing it, those long, difficult days

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Speaker 2: where nobody's watching and you're working your butt off, you know,

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Speaker 2: you was trying to think, you know, one day somebody's

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Speaker 2: gonna get this, they're gonna appreciate it, and it kind

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Speaker 2: of gets through the day on that thought that now

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Speaker 2: that people are reacting to it in the way that

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Speaker 2: they are, thinks all those long tough days worth it.

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Speaker 2: So it really is a thrill.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think seeing you know, Rob's recently posted a

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Speaker 1: lot of before and after photos and Jason Way of

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Speaker 1: geekon golf dot Com did a great piece with Rob

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Speaker 1: on kind of how he got into architecture and you know,

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Speaker 1: a very detailed look at the Swedens ghost story that

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Speaker 1: I highly recommend anybody that hasn't checked it out. But

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Speaker 1: you know, as getting into you know, golf course architecture,

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Speaker 1: and I know this was kind of your first solo

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Speaker 1: gig at it. I'd love to hear a little bit

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Speaker 1: about how you got into it. I think every architecture

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Speaker 1: fan that's an average Joe like myself has had the

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Speaker 1: dream at one point or still has the dream of

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Speaker 1: building a golf course. And I'd just love to hear

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Speaker 1: about kind of the industry, how you get started, and

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Speaker 1: how you got started and you know, have built your

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Speaker 1: career to this point that I think that'd be great

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Speaker 1: for the readers to sort and the listeners to hear.

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Speaker 2: Well. I think I was like a lot of kids

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Speaker 2: real early on, so maybe kind of vaguely remember it's

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Speaker 2: fifth or sixth grade, maybe seventh grade, definitely, I remember

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Speaker 2: seventh grade drawing golf holes in the side of the oat books.

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Speaker 2: I think that's I think that's pretty common for people

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Speaker 2: who get into golf at an early age. So I

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Speaker 2: was kind of like everyone else in that sense. And

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Speaker 2: I went went to college as Swanni and then got

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Speaker 2: out and I graduated ninety seven, and really what I

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Speaker 2: really wanted to do was go be a golf course architect,

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Speaker 2: but I really had absolutely no idea of how to

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Speaker 2: go about doing that. I mean, I knew that there

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Speaker 2: were golf course architects out there obviously, and the thing

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Speaker 2: had somehow gotten to that position in life. But I

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Speaker 2: didn't understand how you could go from being a graduate

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Speaker 2: of a liberal arts college and it actually turned that

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Speaker 2: into a into a profession so bizarre and strange golf

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Speaker 2: course architecture. And so basically I've kind of chickened out

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Speaker 2: for four or five years, kind of put it on

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Speaker 2: holds that I dreamed on halls, and I went and

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Speaker 2: worked in Atlanta, and I enjoyed my time down there.

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Speaker 2: Was kind of a good post college time, and I

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Speaker 2: had a few different jobs, one of which was basically

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Speaker 2: the same as the job that the guy in office

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Speaker 2: space had. I mean, it was absolutely miserable, and I

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Speaker 2: think it was important to go through that because I

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Speaker 2: realized that I really really did not want to spend

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Speaker 2: the rest of my life doing something I didn't love

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Speaker 2: to care about. And yeah, during that time, I researched

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Speaker 2: ways to get into the business and came around to

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Speaker 2: the opinions that the best way for me to do

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Speaker 2: it would be to go back to graduate school and

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Speaker 2: get a landscape architecture degree. I thought that would basically

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Speaker 2: provide the foundation educational foundation that I would need to

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Speaker 2: you have some of the most basic skills that I

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Speaker 2: could use to transition that into an actual job. And

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Speaker 2: so I went back to Misisippi State, which that was

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Speaker 2: one of the programs that actually welcomed me with the

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Speaker 2: open arms and my interest in golf courts architecture. I

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Speaker 2: made it extremely clear to the department head and it's

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Speaker 2: my major professor, that I did not give a damn

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Speaker 2: about landscape architecture. I was there for one reason and

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Speaker 2: one reason only, and that was to be a golf

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Speaker 2: course architect and they they were fully supportive of that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I was not dismissive or rude anyway towards

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Speaker 2: landscape architects or profession of landscape architecture, but they understood that,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was going to use those skills, which

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Speaker 2: are very valuable skills, and I'm really really glad I

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Speaker 2: went back to school to do it, but that I

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Speaker 2: was going to use those skills for some extremely specific

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Speaker 2: stuffs that of do you want to call golf course

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Speaker 2: architecture a stuff stead of my step architecture, I mean

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Speaker 2: it's kind of a I think more a mariage of

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Speaker 2: engineering and plant spy architecture and in art, but anyway,

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Speaker 2: that was that's kind of what I did. And I

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Speaker 2: was fortunate to finish up and graduate in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and five when they were still building golf courts and

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Speaker 2: domestically at a very fast race, so it was actually

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Speaker 2: possible for someone like me to get out of school

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Speaker 2: and get a get a position. And I worked while

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Speaker 2: I was in school. I had an internship with the

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Speaker 2: with the really super guy Raleigh, a guy named Rick Robins,

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Speaker 2: a very accomplished architect who's the former president of the

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Speaker 2: a s GTA, worked for Nicholas for a long time

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Speaker 2: in Asia, just had a ton of experience with wealth

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Speaker 2: and dollarge about the profession. He's the first guy who

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Speaker 2: ever believed in me and always really have a fine

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Speaker 2: place in my heart for Rick and his wife Ginger,

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Speaker 2: and Brian Lucier who was in the office there, and

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Speaker 2: another guy, Jeff Westmoreland. I learned a lot from all them,

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Speaker 2: and and then I transitioned that into a designed coordinator

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Speaker 2: role with Gary Player Design, where I was basically on

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Speaker 2: site day to day on a on a couple of

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Speaker 2: different projects with them, And that was a wonderful experience

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Speaker 2: because I've that that helped me understand the link between

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Speaker 2: a finished golf course and the just the conceptual planning

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Speaker 2: phase which I had gotten in school, and and it's

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Speaker 2: it's kind of the first stage of it. But the

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Speaker 2: really important stuff is what happened in the field. That's

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Speaker 2: where I've fell in love with construction. And and then

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Speaker 2: UH after the second that the second in last project

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Speaker 2: I did it was with Player in the field was

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Speaker 2: a really neat golf course up in Cranebrook, British Columbia

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Speaker 2: called Wildstone and worked with their UH senior designer on

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Speaker 2: that project, guy named Jeff Lawrence. Learned a ton from

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Speaker 2: Jeff and and Frank and against the other the other

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Speaker 2: designer there, but Jeff and I for Players the main

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Speaker 2: people of all that project. And that was a really

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Speaker 2: a really great experience. But it was one that UH

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Speaker 2: was touched short by the recession, and it did eventually

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Speaker 2: get finished and is now opened. That I had to

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Speaker 2: move home and and came back to Chattanooga, and I

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Speaker 2: was determined not to give up on my dream, and

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Speaker 2: I formed King College Golf Course Design with my good

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Speaker 2: friend and now business partners had King And so I

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Speaker 2: think that CAT I think of it's a great team

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Speaker 2: where our skills, you know, our our skill sets compliment

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Speaker 2: one another really well. And I wanted to do design

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Speaker 2: build like the work I always wanted to be on

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Speaker 2: on my own. That was always my vision. I actually

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Speaker 2: remember when I interviewed with Player, I said something really

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Speaker 2: stupid at hindsight, got there all. The president of Gary

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Speaker 2: Player Design asked me what my long term plans were,

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Speaker 2: and I told him that I wanted to be out

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Speaker 2: on my own eventually, which is really funny thinking back

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Speaker 2: on it. I mean, I can't believe I said that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, usually you would keep a little stuff like that,

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Speaker 2: like she would go in to that interview and be like,

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Speaker 2: I want to work for Gary Player for the rest

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Speaker 2: of my life, which I mean, I was extremely honored

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Speaker 2: to even be sitting in that room at their office

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Speaker 2: and call me Scarves. That was a really really big

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Speaker 2: deal for me, right out of ground to it, and

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Speaker 2: I was, you know, God's a great guy. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I love all those guys. But it's funny thinking back

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Speaker 2: on that that I was so determined to make the

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Speaker 2: name for myself that I have blurted that out and

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Speaker 2: interviewed and that was in a way the recession was

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Speaker 2: the thing that was not in a way, it did

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Speaker 2: force my hand. It forced me to go on, which

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Speaker 2: is where I always wanted to be. So had those

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Speaker 2: of us through a couple of years of tell of

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Speaker 2: not being involved in of course, architecture at all while

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Speaker 2: the economy sort of stabilized and and then we got

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Speaker 2: Lusky and had this little nine hole thing follow our lapse,

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Speaker 2: you know, the rest of history.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh, it's interesting how the universe kind of

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Speaker 1: connects itself. But you know, at the same time, I

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Speaker 1: think as a you know, an employer's got like when

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Speaker 1: people want to you know, do great things and want

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Speaker 1: to build a brand of their own to a certain extent,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you're hiring a you know, entry level

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Speaker 1: early employee, you want to hear motivation rather than somebody

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Speaker 1: that just you know, wants to be around the office

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Speaker 1: and you know, slowly working their way up. You know.

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Speaker 1: So I think it could go either way, and lustily

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Speaker 1: for you, it went the right way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I am lucky that. I mean, maybe Scott

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Speaker 2: I thought that was funny and it kind of laughed off,

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Speaker 2: or maybe he saw to that as being someone who

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Speaker 2: was motivated to do a great job and could benefit

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Speaker 2: their their organization. I don't never actually talked to Scott

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Speaker 2: about that. Never even really I've ever mentioned that to anybody.

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Speaker 2: I've talked to my wife about it. I mean, tell

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Speaker 2: was that thing. But you know that's that's just where

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Speaker 2: my mind was. I always wanted to be all biled.

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Speaker 2: I really really really want it to have a my

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Speaker 2: own branch file boy. That was always really important. And

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Speaker 2: we were so lucky to get just a questionriality job.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was although I will say Gary speaking

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Speaker 2: a Gary player, he has a great quote which is

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Speaker 2: the harder I worked, the luckier I guess. So we

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Speaker 2: all we did make our own luck, and we put

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Speaker 2: ourselves in a position to get lucky. But in many

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Speaker 2: many ways we were lucky too. Not only did we

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Speaker 2: get the project, but one thing we were extremely lucky

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Speaker 2: with was our our client, the concrete manufacturer out of

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Speaker 2: South Pittsburgh and Chattdigger area, and they had this old

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Speaker 2: golf course that they wanted too to redo and and

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Speaker 2: Reece Thomas By my client was a great guy and

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Speaker 2: uh his he just totally trusted us and to be

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Speaker 2: to have someone right out of the vat right out

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Speaker 2: of the gate. Trust you in the way that Reese

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Speaker 2: trusted me and had is rare. I mean, we could

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Speaker 2: have had somebody that our first client, who shot down

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Speaker 2: all of our wild ideas. Because if Sweeten's COVID is,

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Speaker 2: it's not normal. I mean, it's far from it.

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Speaker 1: And it's very.

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Speaker 2: It's extremely bold. And you know, we were walking, we

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Speaker 2: were walking a very fine line, and there was this

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Speaker 2: hairy line to walk during construction to go through all that,

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Speaker 2: and but you know, Reese was the was the rock

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Speaker 2: and he he really believed that what we were doing

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Speaker 2: was special, that it was right, and that's that's pretty remarkable.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's the total saught stuff. I mean, you

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Speaker 2: hear stories about other people who first clients or don't

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Speaker 2: trust something necessarily and you know, put too many restrictions

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Speaker 2: on the reefs. Let us do our thing, and and

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Speaker 2: that that was huge and that's why Sweetens Go. That's

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Speaker 2: a big part of the reason why sweets Go turned

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Speaker 2: out so well. So, you know, to the point about

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Speaker 2: Sweden's being bold, it is it is certainly that. And

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Speaker 2: I had some I had some sleepless nights during construction wondering,

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Speaker 2: you know, do we push it too far and and

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Speaker 2: that's was something that I've just kind of always wanted

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Speaker 2: to guard against. I mean, I knew, I knew I

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Speaker 2: wanted to do something bold. I wanted to do I

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Speaker 2: wanted to do something unique, and I'm and I knew

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Speaker 2: that there was a line there, but where exactly that

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Speaker 2: line is is open to interpretation. And if I had

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Speaker 2: not been on site every single day, the balloon that

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Speaker 2: was we Cove, of the helium balloon could have become

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Speaker 2: untethered from the from the ground, from it's boring and

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Speaker 2: thrifts it off into space and kind of evolved into

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Speaker 2: something that was just but not very good. It was

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Speaker 2: not grounded. And that's I think that's what I take

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Speaker 2: the most pride in really about weeks Cove is that

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Speaker 2: it is a really really unique, really really really bold vision,

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Speaker 2: but it does not come unflued from the foundational principles

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Speaker 2: of what a great golf course does and what it

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Speaker 2: should be. And that that was really hard to do

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Speaker 2: because the physical manifestation of those kinds of those architectural

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Speaker 2: ideas that Sweeten Cove are presented in a very unique

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Speaker 2: and different line than most other golf courses. So it's

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Speaker 2: hard to create something that looks can feel so different,

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Speaker 2: that has an extremely bold flavor while keeping it grounded

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Speaker 2: in a stead of you know, five or six or

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Speaker 2: seven key principles and that that was the grind every

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Speaker 2: single day off site, you know, just making sure that

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Speaker 2: all this really whole crazy stuff we were doing wasn't

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Speaker 2: flying into the ether and turning into a giant island

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Speaker 2: craft that was it wasn't instead of they grounded that.

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Speaker 2: That was hard and I'm really really proud of that

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Speaker 2: because we kept it grounded. I mean, Sweeden Cove is

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Speaker 2: grounded in these tried and true principles, but it's expressed

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Speaker 2: in a way that I think is really unique. And

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Speaker 2: that was my goal going in. That was hard to achieve,

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Speaker 2: but I think we did this. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that where you know, architecture can go wrong.

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Speaker 1: And I think one of the things I loved about

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Speaker 1: Sweens coach so much was the you know, the general

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Speaker 1: idea of with off the tee that kept everybody in

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Speaker 1: the in the ball game, but then taking you know,

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Speaker 1: our a established you know green complex because in principles

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Speaker 1: like you know, the first green for everybody that you

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Speaker 1: know hasn't played there is a really cool it's got

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Speaker 1: a a it's a short part five, so it's reachable

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Speaker 1: in two. But you have a really interesting green complex

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Speaker 1: that's on the left side, got a redan kind of

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Speaker 1: kicker in and then you and then on the right

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Speaker 1: side of the green is a punch bowl. So you

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Speaker 1: get these interesting blends that are very is, very boldly contoured.

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Speaker 1: But the architecture goes back to the Golden Age principles.

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Speaker 1: And I think, you know, and i'd be interest to

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Speaker 1: hear your take, is, you know, my general you know

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Speaker 1: philosophy of where golf course architecture went wrong during this

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Speaker 1: dark age that we were in for you know, the

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Speaker 1: forties through the you know, early sixties, is that people

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Speaker 1: trying to reinvent the wheel as opposed to you know,

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Speaker 1: taking making small tweaks to the tried and true principles.

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Speaker 1: So I'd love to hear how you draw on, you know,

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Speaker 1: those Golden Age architects and the and the great architects

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Speaker 1: of even today for inspiration when you go into your

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Speaker 1: and do your design.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's that's that's an interesting, uh area to

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Speaker 2: dig into it. I mean, I think I think the

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Speaker 2: first so I think the first question was where did

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Speaker 2: it go wrong? And how do you avoid that? I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, the Golden Age architect you know kind of

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Speaker 2: all were focused on strategic principles. They were you know,

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Speaker 2: they were interested in creating a canvas that had variety

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Speaker 2: strategy work, you know, interesting bold features that were unique

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Speaker 2: in their own rights, that that were at the same

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Speaker 2: time kind of grounded and some of the kind of

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Speaker 2: foundational principles that that you learned from the best courses

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Speaker 2: of Great Britain, Ireland and the golf stage. Architects by

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Speaker 2: a large weren't afraid to try new things, to do bold,

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Speaker 2: interesting work, to do working things. And I think that

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Speaker 2: one of the things has golf shifted kind of post

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Speaker 2: war was that golf became very much in its creation

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Speaker 2: and its presentation architect quick doing interesting, bold thing they

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Speaker 2: they I think part of that is because it was

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Speaker 2: you know, closely tied to housing and other real estate

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Speaker 2: based interest that did not have golf as the central interest.

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Speaker 2: But golf was instead an amenity. And if you view

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Speaker 2: golf as an aminity as a side show, it's easier

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Speaker 2: to create. So basically just uh, for the lack of

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Speaker 2: a better word, template holes that are you know, just

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Speaker 2: just completely bland, not like a templet all intensive brainer,

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Speaker 2: but just if you're just repeating the same ideas over

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Speaker 2: and over, like I'm gonna put a put a bunker

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Speaker 2: on the inside of this dog leg here, and then man,

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Speaker 2: it's a green, there's gonna be a bunker on the left,

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Speaker 2: a bunker on the right. Okay, we'll move on to

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Speaker 2: the next one. And so I think that that just

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Speaker 2: became the just a very common way to do it.

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Speaker 2: And there was an obsession as well with fairness, which

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Speaker 2: is just so stupid. It's not part of golf. People

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Speaker 2: became obsessed with fairness and having every single thing visible

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Speaker 2: out in front of them. You know, they just golf

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Speaker 2: just drifted away from from the lessons of the old

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Speaker 2: course and and the you know, the things that the

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Speaker 2: the great architects with the golf age where we're into

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Speaker 2: and and so it's it's just really, uh, there was

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Speaker 2: just a lot of really really bad golf course still

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Speaker 2: and and I think it was hard to break out

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Speaker 2: of that. Then you know, along came he Die, and

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, there's this wild guy who's doing

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Speaker 2: all this amazing, fold interesting work that's based on strategic

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Speaker 2: principles and he certainly had a lot of player and

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Speaker 2: was doing all kinds of things that were you know,

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Speaker 2: in the spirit of the golden age of you know,

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Speaker 2: great brend in Ireland. And so you know that you

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Speaker 2: can look into the farther into the modern era and

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Speaker 2: you know who worked for he died a still poor

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Speaker 2: is Tom Doak. And you know the leaders of the

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Speaker 2: last twenty five years or directed that with his his

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Speaker 2: vision and his greatness. And you know that there's been

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Speaker 2: some incredible golf courses built in the last you know,

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Speaker 2: in the early nineties, and and I think that people

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Speaker 2: have been getting obviously and I think people don't realize,

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Speaker 2: but that have been getting back to those kind of

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Speaker 2: four principles and ideas and thoughts and there's more artistry

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Speaker 2: or or or interesting things going on in architecture. And

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Speaker 2: it's it's it's a relief.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. So do you see kind of the interest

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Speaker 1: in golf course of course architecture from the general golfer

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Speaker 1: increasing since you've got it back into the field or

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Speaker 1: has it kind of remained the same or you know what,

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Speaker 1: what have you seen from kind of golf course architecture

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Speaker 1: becoming more mainstream.

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Speaker 2: I think it's definitely becoming more mainstream. But you know,

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Speaker 2: the patrons saying of golf course architecture is this patizer

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Speaker 2: and you know, he's built these defically successful developments and

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Speaker 2: that's what he's done. Stand Indus in particular has had

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Speaker 2: a huge ripple effect throughout the golf world. And I

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Speaker 2: think that, you know, he alone has helped create an

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Speaker 2: awareness of what what good architecture is. Even if people

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Speaker 2: don't you know, have a interested there maybe some sort

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Speaker 2: of passing interests and at least they they may not

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Speaker 2: understand why they like what they like or they they

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Speaker 2: they may not be able to carry a discussion on

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Speaker 2: about it, but they can they're at least aware of it.

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Speaker 2: And that's a change. And so I think that, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think that there is there is a higher degree

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Speaker 2: of interest in architecture, and especially you know, due to

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Speaker 2: the wonders of the Internet. Just spoken with with this

401
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Speaker 2: about Adam Lawrence, the the great British golf writer on

402
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Speaker 2: a number of occasions. You know, Adam said to me one time,

403
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Speaker 2: He's like, Rob, I really think that somebody one you know,

404
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Speaker 2: one day is going to ride a write a book

405
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Speaker 2: on golf batlest and in the impact that the UH

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Speaker 2: brands site. You know it's had on the world, and

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00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 2: you know he has been cow and Dar had a

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Speaker 2: just a massive impact on UH the golf golf course

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Speaker 2: architecture and the the spread of interest in is the

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Speaker 2: subject of architecture. I mean, Golf of Batists has started

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Speaker 2: in the sometime in the nineties and it's just continued

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Speaker 2: to grow. And it is, how really I think, a

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Speaker 2: pretty major force in in the golf world. It's just

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Speaker 2: large and and that's because you know, the thoughtful discussions,

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Speaker 2: incredible force reviews, that in depth reviews that ran put up,

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Speaker 2: and it's made a lot of people aware in pluting

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Speaker 2: myself of what what's good, what's not good? Why is

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00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 2: it good? It's a really it's an amazing resource of

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Speaker 2: anyone can access this. So I think there's a few

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Speaker 2: two things that have gone off the last twenty years.

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Speaker 2: Did it really help shine the ladle architecture.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I remember when I was in my

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Speaker 1: early twenties, I would I would read, you know, for

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Speaker 1: hours on golf course architecture just about you know, if

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Speaker 1: I was going to go visit a different city, you know,

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Speaker 1: where to play and why to play there. I think

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Speaker 1: that's the the general you know is basically, you know,

428
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Speaker 1: getting to a point where you're trusting people because of

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, I trust this person's opinion. And

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Speaker 1: I think we've seen that with Yelp and golf courses

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00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: are just you know, kind of a little bit slower.

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Speaker 1: It's tough because you know, in order to formulate an opinion,

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Speaker 1: there needs to be some sort of you know, that's

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Speaker 1: a good opinion of the architecture. There has to be

435
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: some sort of understanding of architecture, which we're getting there.

436
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: I think more and more U people read and understand

437
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: it and you know, go to golf club batlets. The

438
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: better you know recommendations people are going to get when

439
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: they go on a golf trip to random city autely.

440
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 2: Well, I think I think that's the Frida Egg. I mean,

441
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: you know, you have a relatively new class war, but

442
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 2: it's growing, and you know, your focus on architecture is important.

443
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: And I think that if you're exposing more people to

444
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: you know, some of the basic ideas that once what

445
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 2: architecture is all about, and you're showing people to the

446
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 2: link between the game itself and the architecture and how

447
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: you know. I think I'm putting works in your mouth,

448
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: but I think you would agree that there's a a

449
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 2: sense that if you understand architecture, you're actually going to

450
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: enjoy the game more. It's going to be a richer experience,

451
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: can be more fun. Yeah, I think, And I think

452
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: that's you know, part of what's what you've done, and

453
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 2: it's growing. I mean, it's that's right, It's right for me.

454
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think in general, I think you know golf

455
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: course architecture and understanding of golf courses, you're going to

456
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: enjoy the game more. You're going to play more golf

457
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: at better golf courses. It doesn't mean that the golf

458
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: courses are more expensive, but it's a matter of finding,

459
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: you know, these kind of hidden gems that were designed

460
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: by great architects that you know they might not be

461
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:39,479
Speaker 1: in perfect condition, like you're two hundred dollars around, you know,

462
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five designed Tom Fazio course, but they are

463
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: going to be playable, fun, present unique options. The biggest

464
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: thing I see is, you know, the more you understand architecture,

465
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: the more it helps your golf game. I've seen my

466
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: game get better just from understanding, you know, holes. A

467
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: good example would be I was playing the mid am

468
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: and my last hole of my first round, I was

469
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: I was kind of hanging on to a round and

470
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: I was five over going into the you know, the

471
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: ninth hole at Stonewall's Old Course, which is like a

472
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: two hundred and twenty yard where dan hole over water.

473
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: And I looked at it and this wind is just

474
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: it's blowing, and I'm like, I don't have two twenty

475
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: in the air. So you know, I hit, I hit

476
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: my fore iron and I got it to just catch

477
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: that front right kicker and it rolled down to seven

478
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: feet from the hole because I knew the principles of

479
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: the hole. And I think that's that's where you know,

480
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: people can understand strategy and where to miss their shots,

481
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: and their scores are only going to get better and better.

482
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, if you're playing a golf course

483
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: where strategy was a part of the design and construction process,

484
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: understanding strategic principles and and everything, you know just gonna

485
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: you're gonna fare better and you're gonna you're gonna do

486
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 2: a better job. I mean I see that out as

487
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 2: Sweeten Cove, there's a guy who comes out all the

488
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: time and he's a he's a great guy. He is

489
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: what I was call a kind of a lifelong you know,

490
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 2: public golfer in Chattanooga which came to hasn't really ever

491
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: played anything interesting for the most part. But it's not

492
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: a knock on him. That's just reality. But he when

493
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 2: he comes out to Sweden's Cove, it's his favorite golf course.

494
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: And yeah, he talks to me and he I mean,

495
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: he doesn't read golf book at once. He doesn't. He

496
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 2: doesn't five books about architecture when he sits there and

497
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 2: talks to me about how he has to think his

498
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: way around the course and the places he needs to

499
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: be into places he can't be, and how he likes

500
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 2: to gocause he has more options, and how he can

501
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 2: hit different shots. He is saying things that to me

502
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: that you know, you would hear from somebody who's a

503
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 2: contributor on Golf Club outlest He doesn't have any background

504
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 2: in architecture, and he's just a guy who's observit and

505
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: thoughtful and he gets it, understands it, and it's just

506
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 2: self talked, purely self taught from being able to come

507
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: out and play there and so and it's and he's

508
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: gotten he's a lot better player now than he was

509
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: before he started coming out. He's think he could play

510
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: around for And that's I think that's pretty cool. And

511
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 2: I think architecture can have that impectful people. I mean,

512
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: that's that example right there is the proof of him.

513
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: So let me ask you a question. As an architect,

514
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: how does you know, say you go play, you know,

515
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: a new golf course, how do you like, how do

516
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: you look at a golf course different than say an

517
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: average golf band or a you know, even a you know,

518
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: a semi knowledgeable architecture ban. How how does like somebody

519
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: that knows the deep intricacies look at it differently?

520
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: Is it? You know? Well, I think you know one

521
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 2: thing that may be different in the way I look

522
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 2: at it, and just say, your your casual architecture ban

523
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: or your your golf club at list poster? Is that

524
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: you know? I think I have a really good understanding

525
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 2: of the construction process, how things happen, and I can

526
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: look at things and sort of tell right off the bat,

527
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 2: you know what was going on, what was going on there,

528
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 2: what was going on here and there? And you can

529
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: kind of see, you know, we're where where mistakes were

530
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 2: made if there are in fact were mistakes, but the

531
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 2: negative comment or or maybe you you know, if it's

532
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: a positive thing, you can see where they've paid maybe

533
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 2: paid some extra attention and and you know, made a

534
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: good tie into a slope and created some interest, you know,

535
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: in an area. A perfect example is by my sister

536
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: in law is a member of the course in Wellesley, Massachusetts,

537
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 2: cause the Hoos it's an old Styles and van fleet

538
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 2: and they were, you know, really really good Golden Age

539
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 2: architect and and I went and walked around the golf

540
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 2: course one time with her, and you know, call after Hall.

541
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: It's a nine hole golf course that he could use

542
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 2: a great he could do an incredible restoration there. But

543
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: these kind of Golden Age principles are there on the ground.

544
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 2: They didn't move much dirt at all, but you can

545
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: tell by the way the golf courses routed that somebody

546
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 2: who knew what they were doing did it. And this

547
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: is before I knew that it was the styles of

548
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: the bank Cleekue like those the things. The hole that

549
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 2: I always remember up there as the eighth hole, is

550
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 2: this some short par three maybe a hundred and forty

551
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 2: hundreds of the yards or something like that, and it

552
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 2: plays over this bridge line that kind of plants from

553
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 2: high on the left to low on the right, so

554
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: it kind of cuts across your visibility as the hole

555
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 2: in a diagonal way. In a large portion of the

556
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 2: green is actually blind. In other parts of the green,

557
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 2: you just kind of catch a little glimpse of the

558
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 2: flag stick. And that's just the landform that's been there

559
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: for thousands of years. And they just routed. They did

560
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 2: a good job routing the golf course, and they stuck

561
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 2: the screen pine and it's just imensely entertaining. Part three.

562
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 2: And when I saw that, I was like, Okay, somebody

563
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: really clever is I mean, this is an awesome hall,

564
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 2: and you know, little things like that might be lost

565
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 2: on your your casual servers and other things where you know,

566
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: people you know, go to that two hundred dollars around

567
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: resort course. I think it's just amazing. If you sit

568
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: there and you look at some of the construction and

569
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:24,280
Speaker 2: how lazy it was, it just just kind of discussed

570
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: you and you know, so you wonder how they get

571
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:33,399
Speaker 2: off target that much money, and do you think about, well,

572
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 2: it's all about marketing and bossy brochures a lot of times,

573
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,720
Speaker 2: and you know, resumation do not, may not be well aren't.

574
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: So you kind of see under the you know, a

575
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 2: different level of it.

576
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: I think so with you being kind of more of

577
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: a boutique architecture firm, you know, how is the the

578
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: toughest thing getting in the conversation with these bigger name

579
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: brands like say, you know, a Gary Player design or

580
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: a Nickolace designer even nowadays, like a dope renaissance golf

581
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 1: design is really the first and the big biggest hurdle

582
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: just gang your name and in the mix.

583
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, it definitely is it. You know, when

584
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 2: case Tad and I started as King Collins in two

585
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 2: thousand and ten and before before we have any projects.

586
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 2: And the thing that we just kept telling each other

587
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 2: was if we could just keep one project in the

588
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 2: ground during the recession, just one, we can prove to

589
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 2: everyone what we're capable of, and we can take that

590
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 2: and build on that and we'll we'll actually end up

591
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 2: being way ahead of a lot of other people because

592
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 2: number one, it's gonna be extremely hard to build golf

593
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: during the recession. There's not gonna be much built, and

594
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 2: we believe in ourselves. We believe that what we come

595
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: out with will be good enough that we can can

596
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: build a career on that. We can point to that

597
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 2: as a example in the ground, real life example of

598
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 2: our methodology, in our in our possible architecture and construction.

599
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 2: So we how would you think very very much was

600
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 2: that in getting that with was huge? And now we

601
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 2: can point to that and say, look, we we went

602
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 2: head to head with you know, one of the biggest

603
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 2: things in golf, and hey, we can do it as

604
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 2: well as anybody, and we've got fruits, So that's a lot.

605
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 1: How would you say that you guys, as a brand,

606
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: differentiate yourselves from you know, I know architecture. I think

607
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: of it kind of as an art because everybody's interpretation

608
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: of the land sight is going to be different. But

609
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: you know, when it comes down to, you know, what

610
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: am I getting with King Collins that you know is

611
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 1: going to be different and unique? What's kind of you guys?

612
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: Are philosophies that are uh, you know, your core differentiators

613
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 1: from everybody else?

614
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 2: Well, there aren't many companies out there that do you

615
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 2: know the design built that I mean, we found it

616
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 2: that we looked at, you know, well, what are the

617
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 2: best golf courses in the world have been built in

618
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 2: the last twenty five years, but every single one of

619
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 2: them been built you think of a design build model,

620
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 2: and and so we founded our company on that. On

621
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 2: that basis, we think that it's far and away the

622
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 2: best way to do it. You can keep cost down

623
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 2: while you know, providing it is hugely interesting. Uh, you know,

624
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 2: features and are artistically constructive, uh, features for the golf court.

625
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 2: And as far as you know, how how we may

626
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 2: be different, you know, I don't think that at least

627
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 2: at this point in time, that anybody can match our

628
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 2: our our costs and what we're going what what we're

629
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 2: going to deliver. You know, Tat and I are going

630
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 2: to be on site majority of the process, all the

631
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 2: way through. And that's the level of attention to detail

632
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 2: and getting personalized features built into the course that it's

633
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: just it is is a very rare thing. And and

634
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 2: I also think that Sweetens Cove shows that, you know,

635
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 2: we're willing to incapable of doing some some things that

636
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 2: have a have a really fresh take on architecture. And

637
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 2: then you know, thirdly, I think sweet and co uh

638
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 2: shows that we are deeply passionate about what we do.

639
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 2: And I don't think that there's well, I know that

640
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 2: there's there's nobody else in the world who would have

641
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 2: done the things that I've done to get that golf

642
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 2: course off the ground.

643
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:14,439
Speaker 1: Yeah.

644
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 2: I have been through helen back for a nine hole

645
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 2: golf course in a floodplain in Tennessee. Okay, nobody is

646
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: gonna match that. I don't think anybody can match that

647
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: level of passion that in that drive. You just there's

648
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 2: nobody out there that that you can can say that

649
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 2: they they they would have done when I've when I

650
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: missed that course. And that's why Sweet Go is as

651
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 2: good as it is. It's because we infused it with

652
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 2: all of these little details. We never gave up. It's

653
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,280
Speaker 2: got the soul and the spirit to it. This energy.

654
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 2: This is a result of all of the energy that

655
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: was put into it, and most people don't know. You know,

656
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 2: the whole story is Sweet Go. I mean, I think

657
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: Jason's interview does a good job with it. But the

658
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 2: long and short of it is is that the you know,

659
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 2: the golf course was left for dead in twenty thirteen.

660
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 2: I took it over made. It's a good passive personal

661
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: risk to take it over on a long term lease.

662
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 2: Reclaimed this from what was quickly becoming a patch of weeds,

663
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 2: got it open. It's been a flavor of love and

664
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 2: in a passion project from from day one. And and

665
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: it was like that, you know, all the way through construction.

666
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 2: I mean, we've been over backwards for that for this place.

667
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 2: And I just I just if you're asking what what

668
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 2: would we do differently than anyone else, nobody, there is

669
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 2: nobody that is going to bring the level of passion

670
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 2: and attention to detail and the hired to use the

671
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 2: golf course that you characteristics in the way that we do.

672
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 2: And and furthermore, they can't do it for the price

673
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 2: that we can do it for we can. We can.

674
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 2: Nobody in the world can build golf is inexpensively to

675
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 2: as high of a degree of quality of We've proved

676
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 2: that a sweep and I'll take that to my great fact.

677
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 1: That's uh, that's a good sales fish is chief and

678
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:28,479
Speaker 1: really really good.

679
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I'm this is gonna sound cocky as hell,

680
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 2: but it's the truth. Whoever hires us for a great

681
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 2: piece of land is going to hit the damn jackpot.

682
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 2: I am so ready to bust out of this cage.

683
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 2: Whoever gets me next is going to get this fucking

684
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 2: wild demon who is gonna make them the hell of

685
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 2: a lot of money. I am just so determined right

686
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 2: now to build an unbelievable golf course. I know I've

687
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 2: got it in me. I've got this unbelievably intense, burning

688
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 2: desire to do it. And if somebody gives us a

689
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 2: great piece of land, they're going to get something absolutely incredible.

690
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 2: I mean, we turned a dead flat, blood playing sack

691
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 2: of ship golf course on seventy two acres into parbuably.

692
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: You know, the best golf course that's not whole golf

693
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 2: course in the United States, I think the best golf

694
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,760
Speaker 2: course of Tennessee. I think it's better than the Honors

695
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 2: Course ran Horse. I think better than the Honored course.

696
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 2: Mm hm, that's that's a pretty amazing accomplishment. Really. Yeah, again,

697
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 2: I realized that sounds horribly obnoxious for me to be

698
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,439
Speaker 2: two and mild part like that, But it's a it's

699
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 2: a fact. I mean, if you can prove it, if

700
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 2: you can do it, it's not not ragging. It's just

701
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: being factful.

702
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: My baddy is you know, joke around with me. I

703
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 1: talk about Sweden's coach so much that they say I'm

704
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: like the president of the fan club, So I know

705
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: how it's a It's a terrific course. And anybody that's

706
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 1: spent uh, you know, a day golfing with me probably

707
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 1: heard at least five things about Sweden's coke. So hey,

708
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 1: I you know, I wanted to get to some Twitter questions.

709
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 1: We've got a lot of them, and some really good

710
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: ones that I think are going to have some some

711
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:31,879
Speaker 1: lengthy responses. If so, thanks for everybody that sent them

712
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: in here. And first we've got Simon Haynes, who's an

713
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: excellent follow. Rob and I were actually talking about how

714
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: thoughtful he is, and he asked the question, are we

715
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: in slash entering a new golden age of golf course

716
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 1: architecture and if so, what's the driving change?

717
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 2: I will echo your comment about names. I think he's

718
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 2: one of the most interesting guys on Twitter. Obviously a

719
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 2: really sharp, fun guy. I mean that was anyone who

720
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 2: listens to this podcast, I would definitely follow him. He's

721
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 2: a lot of fun, a lot of great content out

722
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 2: of his Twitter handle. That's that's an awesome question, you know,

723
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 2: right obviously, Mike Kaiser, Tom Doe and core Crenshaw or

724
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 2: the triumvirates that are largely responsible for ushering in a

725
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 2: renaissance for the last betteral parts a little nod that

726
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 2: is Tom business there. But you know, like I said

727
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: earlier in the discussion, Mike, Mike Kaiser is the patron's

728
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: saying of foder scisstic architecture. And he's told the record

729
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 2: is thinking he's gonna build continue to build golf for

730
00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 2: as long as he lives. And I suspect that, you know,

731
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 2: barring any unforeseen circumstances, has done well, will carry that

732
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 2: to work. So there's some people that deserve tremendous nun

733
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 2: respect for the current renaissance. And I think Simon may

734
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 2: be alluding to kind of at least my pack on it.

735
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 2: It is almost a sub renaissance to what's going on

736
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: a second, you know, period of exciting work, and to that,

737
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 2: I would say, I think that there is and I

738
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 2: think that it is related to My opinion is that

739
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 2: it is related to the procession and the recession stuck.

740
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 2: But the recession also gave me a chance, and it

741
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 2: also gave a lot of other talented people a chance,

742
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: and it also is forcing a lot of the bluff

743
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 2: and unnecessary golf golf courses to be flushed down the

744
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 2: toilet where they belonged. And it is also forcing clients

745
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: in the future, current clients, clients who might be people

746
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 2: in the future building golf to look really hard if

747
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: what's important and what's necessary, and to do things more efficiently.

748
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 2: You know, the days of the really massive, overflown, bloated

749
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: budgets that the contributed to this, you know, really boring

750
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 2: set of homogenous golf courses. I think those days are

751
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 2: thankfully behind this course. There will still be bad golf

752
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 2: courses still in the future, but they'll be fewer and

753
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 2: far between. I think that, you know, the focus on

754
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 2: doing things efficiently and doing things well can forge a

755
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 2: new renascence for the lack of the better word going forward.

756
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 2: And I think that I think that that's that's happening,

757
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 2: and I think that there there's people like us out

758
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,879
Speaker 2: there who are who are taking part in it, who

759
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 2: are who can do things sufficiently to a very high

760
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 2: degree of quality, and that's just going to be more

761
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 2: good golf and a good pride that's good for the game.

762
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you see a lot less. I want

763
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 1: to build a golf courses just as a general is.

764
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: I want to build a great golf course, which has

765
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: helped a ton and kind of change the thought. You know,

766
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: I think quality over quantity is what the recession kind

767
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 1: of ushered in because less people are trying to build

768
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: golf courses and therefore, you know, the smaller pool of

769
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: architects is a better pool.

770
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. That that's that's just that that is. That's

771
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 2: exactly it.

772
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: So this one's from Trevor Dharmer, who's a fellow architect.

773
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 2: Well, it's a very close friend of mine, really great guy,

774
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 2: one of my best friends.

775
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:05,800
Speaker 1: He wants to know, what's the most interesting natural feature

776
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: that you've seen that you'd like to incorporate on your

777
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: next course.

778
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 2: Well when I saw that question, Trevor, it reminded me

779
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 2: of an ill stated project that he and I were

780
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 2: both going to be involved with called the Montange Club.

781
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: And that was a really cool project that never came

782
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 2: off in Bernie Bruce, Columbia, which that would have been

783
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 2: the big one if it had happened for us, but

784
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 2: it didn't. Our clients decided to plant community gardens and

785
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 2: stuff like that, which in the Canadian Rockies is like

786
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 2: plaining grizzly bear food instead of building a great golf course.

787
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 2: But whatever. On that golf course, there were these really

788
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 2: cool washes, like these old you know, areas where water

789
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 2: had drained for thousands and thousands of years, and it

790
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 2: created these really neat contours and they were all completely playable,

791
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 2: and we were on the second hole there there are

792
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 2: these gifts in the ground. It was kind of like

793
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 2: if you've ever played pasta tempo like some of the

794
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,959
Speaker 2: really great contours that you see on that golf course

795
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 2: that are those natural swales that Mackenzie incorporated into some

796
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 2: of the holes there. And we were actually going to

797
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 2: build a green through one of the natural swales, and

798
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 2: it would have been really an incredible grain. I mean,

799
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 2: it was probably the bottom of the swale was probably

800
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 2: six and a half seven feet below natural grade. But

801
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 2: we were going to just build the grain right into

802
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 2: it and have a you know flatch on the back,

803
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 2: flatch on the front in abile area down there at

804
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 2: the bottom. And I wish that had happen. I think

805
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 2: that's really incorporating eight natural drainage washes. That would be

806
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 2: it would be really fun. I've been a love to

807
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 2: do something like that.

808
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll include on our on the on the website,

809
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: on the podcast stage, the link to your plan for

810
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: the Montane Club. It's really cool. I took a look

811
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: at it. I spent way too much time reading it.

812
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: But for all you know, kind of architecture geeks, it's

813
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: it's a fun thing to kind of look through what

814
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: could have been.

815
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: Yep.

816
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: So up next we got forrest. And do you try

817
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 1: and avoid building first holes that face east or finishing

818
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: holes that face west. That's kind of a you know,

819
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: a general old principle.

820
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,879
Speaker 2: Because you know, I mean, yeah, sure I think that,

821
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 2: I think that ideally, you definitely, you know, you you'd

822
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 2: want to be careful with that and didn't want to

823
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 2: avoid that situation. But you know, if the land dictates

824
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 2: certain things, I mean sometimes you know, you're almost always

825
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 2: going to have to make concessions kind of one one

826
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 2: form or another, uh, in order to make the routing work.

827
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 2: And you know, if you've got a great routing, but

828
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 2: that's your one concession, I mean I would make it.

829
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not going to build a a less

830
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 2: good hole just because of the sunrise or where the

831
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 2: sun sets. I mean, you wouldn't want to use kind

832
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 2: of an absolute in other words, you know what I'm saying.

833
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 2: You could, you would want to try to avoid it.

834
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 2: But if you can't, You've got a great golf hole

835
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 2: and a great routing. You're not going to destroy that

836
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 2: build a less good golf hole just because of the

837
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 2: where the stunt rising are studying. That's what happened.

838
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's but.

839
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 2: You're taking into consideration, but you're not going to It's

840
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 2: not going to be a black or white issue.

841
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 1: Trying to say this one's from goes to Hogan. Can

842
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: new golf courses be built to speed up play or

843
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: is that on the golfer?

844
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 2: That's ah, I love that question. I think golf courses

845
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 2: can absolutely be built to improve be the play. In fact,

846
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 2: that just did a master plan for Sickle Mountain Golfing

847
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 2: country Club, which is of course I grew up playing

848
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 2: as a kid, and there are huge log jam issues

849
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 2: on the back nine, and I think that our plan

850
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 2: addresses of and if fact golf course gets built in

851
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,439
Speaker 2: the way that that we designed it, which I hope

852
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 2: it will. I think that rounds will go just there

853
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 2: from being you know, four kind of four and a

854
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 2: half plus hours logs to you know ones where you

855
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 2: can get around in two and a half hours. It's

856
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 2: like fly around the course because of how we did it,

857
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 2: how we opened it up. I dressed a lot of

858
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 2: the flow issues, the connectivity between halls. So absolutely, I mean,

859
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 2: I think that's a that has to be considered. And

860
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 2: I would encourage people to look at that Sickle Mountain

861
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 2: plan and I talked about the flow of the golf

862
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 2: courses there. It's very important.

863
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah. I think with too. You know, as

864
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: Mackenzie wrote tirelessly about you know, the golfers shouldn't be

865
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: looking for the gospel.

866
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

867
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: So if if you had your pick of grasses and

868
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 1: turf conditions for an ideal course, what would they be?

869
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:46,439
Speaker 1: And this is from Lincoln.

870
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 2: Duh Uh you gotta go. You gotta go with the

871
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:56,359
Speaker 2: classic uh, firm and fast, uh best view. I can

872
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:58,320
Speaker 2: go back to the Mons tank cluff. We were actually

873
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 2: gonna do it. We were gonna do better few fairways

874
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,399
Speaker 2: there and we would have had we would have done

875
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 2: Bence Green, which which under proper management, can be extremely

876
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 2: firm and fast. The best greens I've ever played in

877
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 2: my life. U were at San Hill that's just past summer,

878
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 2: but the summer before that, I mean the greens were

879
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 2: so firm, it's so good. It was ridiculous. I mean

880
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 2: that they were unbelievable him And you know with with

881
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 2: super fast tight surrounds and the fairways the best you

882
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 2: can deliver you both both down real tight, man, So

883
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 2: you can't that's the best mm hmm. Yeah, we got

884
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 2: to get that. We try to get that as tweets go.

885
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 2: I mean four nineteen Bermudo you can go real low

886
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 2: with it and we get it. We get a firmit

887
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 2: fast there. I mean that's a lot of fun too.

888
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's a good it's a good uh

889
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 2: you know, representation of it mm hmm. And our diperintendent

890
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 2: gets those greens fast and not the speed is all

891
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 2: the better that there's you know that they're they're firm

892
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 2: and that they roll out they play well. So I

893
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 2: mean you can do it on warm season gratch to too.

894
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 2: But if you just got to have the right people

895
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 2: in place to deliver it.

896
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and then it's I think you guys did

897
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: as a. I mean my experience at Swings Code of

898
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: course is in perfect shape. So I hear it, it's

899
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: only gotten better.

900
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, bread's unbelievable.

901
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: So we're going to go into a little bit of

902
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: a rapid fire and your buddy Riley has got the

903
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: first question here. Have you ever had poutine?

904
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 2: Absolutely? You can't live a year and a half in

905
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 2: Canada not get the national dishe you know, So SE's

906
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 2: the bomb Absolutely came about one hundred pounds in a

907
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 2: two hours sitting. But you know the core of it.

908
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: Okay, So, who's the best architect that most people have

909
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: never heard of? And this can be Golden Age or modern.

910
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 2: I don't know. The one that pops out to me

911
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 2: that nobody's really overheard of is av Thecan. You know

912
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 2: he did some really great stuff. I mean he loved

913
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 2: why corridor strategy. Kad McCann did a lot of the

914
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 2: strategy at cal Clove, and McKenzie did a couple of

915
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 2: degrees and the bunkering. But you know, the lion's share

916
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 2: of the strategy and the with and everything is calp Club,

917
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 2: which happens to be one of my absolute favorite places

918
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 2: on the planet. Is does Av the can. I mean,

919
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 2: how many people have heard of that guy? And he

920
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 2: I have.

921
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna google them after this.

922
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 2: Yeah he's fatass.

923
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

924
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 3: So what is the one public course and one private

925
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 3: course that are kind of like next on your list

926
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 3: of places to check out that you haven't checked out

927
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 3: that you're really excited about seeing.

928
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, well, I've kind of got an open invitation

929
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 2: of Prairie Dunes, which I'm super excited about, so that

930
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 2: that is the way way up the list. I really

931
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 2: want to see the Old Town. I'm extremely intrigued by

932
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 2: what poor Frenshaw did there. I know they didn't have

933
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 2: a slutely amazing job with that, So I can't wait

934
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 2: to be Old Town. I know, I'm kind of shooting

935
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 2: and gifting more one, but definitely excited about Fairy Day.

936
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: What about the public.

937
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 2: Probably h I'll tell you one off the top the bat.

938
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 2: He goes back to something early in the conversation about

939
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 2: three places off the beat half the beat, the fants

940
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 2: off of a lot of the other fancy stuff. This

941
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 2: placed by friend Reeve's Milliken found called Eagle Springs Resort

942
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 2: in Wisconsin. Yeah. Oh, the pictures look in same Oh yeah,

943
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 2: it's like the Army did an LSD experiment, gave the

944
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 2: designer of the massive and telling him to go out

945
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 2: the time of golf course. I mean, it's crazy, but

946
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 2: it looks absolutely amazing. I can't wait to see it.

947
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it yet, and it's been on my

948
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 1: short list, and you know, one of my buddies went out.

949
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:16,479
Speaker 1: I mean they have like and for those that I haven't,

950
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:20,919
Speaker 1: you should google Eagle Springs Volcano Green and it's.

951
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 2: One of the most.

952
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 1: Let's just say, yeah, that's it's on my list and

953
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: I'm kind of ashamed I haven't seen it. It's in

954
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 1: my backyard.

955
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 2: So oh well, maybe Chicago after spring and we'll go

956
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 2: play this.

957
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, we'll play a few places if you

958
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: do that. All right, So how about Mount Rushmore? So

959
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 1: four architects living or dead? Who are who is on

960
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 1: your Mount Rushmore?

961
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 2: Well, you gotta have the kind.

962
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 1: If they're a duo, they go as one.

963
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 2: With the duo, you gotta go with one.

964
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: No, no, they go in as one.

965
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 2: I'll go go in at one. M Well, you gotta

966
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 2: go with the Kinz. I mean I think she's have

967
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 2: to also go with old Tom that would be kind

968
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 2: of silly to put him there living. I mean, you've

969
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 2: gotta give a NodD to you know, Court Crenshaw. I mean,

970
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,920
Speaker 2: they're absolutely at the top of the game, and they

971
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 2: deserve to be. They're they're absolutely on fire. They turn

972
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 2: out one great golf course after another billboard if they

973
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 2: Crenshaw both or both architects, and they have phenomenally talented

974
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 2: people working for them, they've just got to awesome just

975
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 2: about and and Fred guys on top of that. So

976
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 2: you gotta gotta go with that. Uh, And then you know,

977
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 2: I would say, uh, maybe cult.

978
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got a lot of really good courses across the.

979
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a tough question, and you're really splitting hairs,

980
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 2: But I mean, I think, god this, of course, I

981
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:50,800
Speaker 2: think you can also make a really strong argument for

982
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 2: Pete Die as well, because you know, I would replaced

983
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 2: I almost put Pete Dial there is the poor really

984
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 2: because he really brought modern architecture out of adult Rum

985
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 2: and that's an incredible service to the world of golf.

986
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 2: And it took a hell of a lot of boldness

987
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 2: and brilliant and everything else to do what he did.

988
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 2: So I was, you know, the Kims the old time.

989
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:31,520
Speaker 2: That's a good, that's a pretty good, that's a pretty

990
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 2: solid lift. And then of course it's kind of cool

991
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 2: that if you put the down there, then you've got

992
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 2: Cork f Renshaw there. And I'm you know, I was

993
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 2: talking to Bill Score a couple of months ago about

994
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 2: working him working with me Di. I mean that's the

995
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 2: direct link. So I think that's a kind of an

996
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 2: inn well intertwined list.

997
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, absolutely, five the.

998
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 2: Modern masters and disputed champions right now at Cort Frindshaw

999
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 2: if he died too, helped get up there, and then

1000
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 2: he withdrew from Old Tom and the Kissie And yeah,

1001
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 2: I think that's the list.

1002
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 1: Old Tom was the original guy that everybody drew from exactly. Yeah,

1003
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 1: it makes sense.

1004
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1005
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:19,520
Speaker 3: And then uh, let's say top your your five favorite

1006
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean you're top, but your favorite five golf

1007
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 3: courses that you've.

1008
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 2: Played Old Course, Uh, Sork Barrack, Uh, Pinehurst number two, Uh,

1009
01:06:54,720 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 2: sand Hills, sand Hill definitely ay, and I think Santels

1010
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 2: is the fourth to us. I think you probably have

1011
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 2: a good national golf link. M h.

1012
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, good, good, pretty good.

1013
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 2: Good.

1014
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 1: Last question, if if you could redo one thing one

1015
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 1: thing you did at Sweeten's co What would it be?

1016
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: And how often do you think about that?

1017
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 2: Say other great questions, and it's something we talk about

1018
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:43,959
Speaker 2: and every now and again. The one thing that would

1019
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 2: change about sweet Ago is rather than having individual chi boxes,

1020
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 2: I would have flowed everything from built basically just a

1021
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 2: little flat spots in the fair way. It has little

1022
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:03,439
Speaker 2: flat spots all over the place. Ye have a bunch

1023
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 2: of different angles, and we we as much as we

1024
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:11,480
Speaker 2: could in the confines of the routing that that we can.

1025
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:15,520
Speaker 2: We tried to build the tees perpendicular to the line

1026
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 2: of play as much as possible to get those different angles.

1027
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 2: Like the poor Tea box is a perfect example of that.

1028
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 2: The space allowed us to do that, and so getting

1029
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:26,639
Speaker 2: variety in the T box was important. But we could

1030
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 2: have gotten even more if I had just had kind

1031
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 2: of a free flowing tea box, kind of like what

1032
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 2: we designed at the Contank Club, where you just put

1033
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 2: a peg in the ground wherever you find a flat spot.

1034
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 2: And you know, that would have I think that would

1035
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 2: have I would have liked that. And you know, who knows,

1036
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 2: maybe one day we'll know everyone day will change that,

1037
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 2: but not not in the foreseeable future. But that that's

1038
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 2: something that I would like to see. It doesn't. I

1039
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 2: don't walk around and go, God, I really screwed that up.

1040
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:03,599
Speaker 2: I was a huge mistake or anything, but it's something

1041
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 2: I would would I would be happy to be changed.

1042
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 2: The other thing I actually I will say one quick

1043
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 2: thing that I absolutely want to change it, and I

1044
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:15,839
Speaker 2: could change just the short term without a huge amount

1045
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 2: of work, is on the Radan hole built the nice

1046
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 2: hole in sweet and Scope. There's a little pocket of

1047
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:27,760
Speaker 2: a bunker behind the green, and my intention when we

1048
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 2: built that golf hole was for there to be an

1049
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,559
Speaker 2: equal percentage chance of being able to play it up

1050
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,599
Speaker 2: the right side, like with a five iron, for instance,

1051
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:40,639
Speaker 2: and have it loop pard and turn left and lay

1052
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 2: dead as the whole far left side. And it's a

1053
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 2: it's just as equally as good of a chance that

1054
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 2: that shot happening is flying at dead at the hall

1055
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:53,679
Speaker 2: with sand pitching wed or a nine iron. And right

1056
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 2: now it's a little bit out of balance in that

1057
01:09:56,840 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 2: too many balls collecting that bunker behind the green. I

1058
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 2: would still in this one little pocket of the bunker,

1059
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:06,760
Speaker 2: it's about twenty feet wide, can turn that into a

1060
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 2: fairway ramp that would help direct more balls down to

1061
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:12,720
Speaker 2: that left side. I just I missed that a little bit.

1062
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:14,680
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just one of those details that's just

1063
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 2: it kind of slipped past me. I mean, I thought

1064
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 2: that what we had in the ground was gonna turn

1065
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 2: balls harder than it did, and it turns them, but

1066
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:27,640
Speaker 2: just the margin of error is more finite than I

1067
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 2: had tipped. Because you can do it. I wanted to be.

1068
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 2: I wanted to be an easier shop to do.

1069
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I imagine I, at least I would be. I'd

1070
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 1: be a big second. I don't think I could make

1071
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 1: it as an architect. I'd just be I'd be afraid

1072
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 1: to pull the trigger on a hole. I'd be like,

1073
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 1: I don't think that this is gonna work. You know,

1074
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:54,320
Speaker 1: I'd be in the I'd be in the drawing face

1075
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:55,880
Speaker 1: for years.

1076
01:10:56,240 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you never know, man, that might be the trick.

1077
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:07,559
Speaker 1: But hey, I really appreciate the time, Rob. I want

1078
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 1: to get you out of here and and and this,

1079
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:12,519
Speaker 1: and I think we're right a little over an hour

1080
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:15,400
Speaker 1: so but you know, we'll definitely have to have you

1081
01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: on again. I hope people like this look into architecture

1082
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:24,639
Speaker 1: a little deep. Dive. If so, let us know. We'll

1083
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 1: do more architect podcast and architecture based podcast. But Rob

1084
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 1: really appreciate the time and thanks for coming on.

1085
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:37,680
Speaker 2: It is awesome to be on. Andy. Thank you so

1086
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 2: much for your support a week ago and for the

1087
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 2: platform today. I had a blast talking about it. Thanks

1088
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:42,800
Speaker 2: a lot.

1089
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 1: All right, thanks a lot.

1090
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:47,040
Speaker 2: Rob. We'll talk to you soon, all right, buddy, see

1091
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 2: you