WEBVTT - Ohio's War On Trans People, Pt. 1: Meet the Detrans Terfs

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<v Speaker 1>Al Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Dick It Happened Here, a podcast that is

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<v Speaker 2>in no small part about the increasing and escalating series

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<v Speaker 2>of anti trans laws being passed around the country. It's

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<v Speaker 2>another one of those episodes. Things are getting worse, things

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<v Speaker 2>are also getting weird. And with me to talk about

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<v Speaker 2>worse and weird is Kay and Lee from Health Liberation

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<v Speaker 2>Now welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm excited to talk to you both because, Okay, very

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<v Speaker 2>very odd stuff has been happening. So the main reason

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to have yout you on is to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about the stuff that's been happening in Ohio. So for

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<v Speaker 2>people who are unaware, Ohio's legislature has been trying to

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<v Speaker 2>pass a very draconian ban on all gender firm macare

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<v Speaker 2>for minors. The States Republican governor vetoed the bill and

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<v Speaker 2>this was for about one day. There was a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of sort of like liberal cheering about like ah, compassionate Republicans,

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<v Speaker 2>blah blah, blah blah. And then immediately after that, like

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<v Speaker 2>like like the next day, when all of all of

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<v Speaker 2>us we haven't even like we hadn't even really gotten

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<v Speaker 2>into the weight hold on He's going to do something else. Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>The thing that Dwine did is is, you know, and

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<v Speaker 2>this is this is being framed as like an attempt

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<v Speaker 2>to stave off the veto, which hasn't worked so far,

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<v Speaker 2>but he immediately implemented a bunch of rules that say

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<v Speaker 2>that in order to get gender firming care, and this

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<v Speaker 2>is true of both miners and adults, which makes it

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<v Speaker 2>in a lot of ways more draconian than the actual bill.

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<v Speaker 2>It's quote unquote supposed to be preventing like getting passed.

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<v Speaker 2>If you want to get gender refirming care, you need

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<v Speaker 2>recommendations from a psychiatrist, an endocrinologist, and a bioethicist. And

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<v Speaker 2>also all gender firmingcare in the state has to be

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<v Speaker 2>reported to the government there and there's like other stuff too.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is the technical term for this is this

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<v Speaker 2>is extremely bad.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean he also signed an executive

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<v Speaker 4>order just banning surgery for everyone under eighteen too. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>so yeah, yeah, I mean also I think I believe

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<v Speaker 4>it was like everyone under twenty one also had to

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<v Speaker 4>go through six months of counseling as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, at least six months of counseling. Yeah, there's

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<v Speaker 3>no upper.

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<v Speaker 5>Cap mm hmm.

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<v Speaker 4>And like a lot of this was the wine and

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<v Speaker 4>his spokespeople have ended up like justifying a lot of this,

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<v Speaker 4>like trying to use language from clinicians working at clinics

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<v Speaker 4>in Ohio that see trans youth and be like, well,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, they're taking this comprehensive, multidisciplinary approach, and most

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<v Speaker 4>of the people they see like get counseling instead of

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<v Speaker 4>medical transitions. So they're actually like using a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>the testimony against the band to try to justify these

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<v Speaker 4>rules and regulations. And I don't think they're acting in

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<v Speaker 4>good faith because when you actually like look at the details,

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<v Speaker 4>are like, well, this would basically make it almost impossible

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<v Speaker 4>for anyone at any age to transition. But it's like,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, it's a very sneaky smart move, right, like

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<v Speaker 4>being like, oh, look, we're trying to find a compromise.

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<v Speaker 4>We're trying to make sure everyone gets good healthcare, and

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<v Speaker 4>you know, unfortunately sometimes liberals and liberal media I'll just

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<v Speaker 4>kind of eat that up without really looking at the details.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And one of the things that's happening here too

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<v Speaker 2>is that so the US, where in places where there's

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<v Speaker 2>pretty good access to gender affirming healthcare, it works off

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<v Speaker 2>of something called informed consent and informed consent is like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so you go there, they tell you what is going

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<v Speaker 2>to happen, and you talk you talk to like a

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<v Speaker 2>nurse or a doctor, and then once you know the

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<v Speaker 2>life like what you're actually getting into, you say yes

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<v Speaker 2>or no if you want to do something right, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, this is a this is a pretty good system.

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<v Speaker 2>It still can be really annoying to navigate because of

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<v Speaker 2>insurance stuff, and you know, like there's definitely problems with it,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's a it's a much better system that exists

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<v Speaker 2>in a lot of places. And you know, I think

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<v Speaker 2>there have been two sets of comparisons about what these

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<v Speaker 2>restrictions look like. And we're going to get to the

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<v Speaker 2>comparisons to uh TARP restrictions on abortion in a second,

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<v Speaker 2>but I want to talk about another thing that these

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<v Speaker 2>restrictions strike me as very similar to, which is the

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<v Speaker 2>British system. And the way the British system works is

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<v Speaker 2>you get put on a wait list and then you die,

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<v Speaker 2>or you go to our media like those are those

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<v Speaker 2>are your options?

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<v Speaker 3>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>Or or you're really wealthy and you can you can

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<v Speaker 2>bypass the public healthcare system and go to the private

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<v Speaker 2>healthcare system. But you know, like I hope, like I

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<v Speaker 2>hope you are like the air to mansion before you

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<v Speaker 2>start that process, or you're in serious trouble. The thing

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<v Speaker 2>about the British system is there's all of these paths

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<v Speaker 2>of interlocking experts you have to go through in every

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<v Speaker 2>single you have to get signatures from every single one

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<v Speaker 2>of them. And what this means is you have this

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<v Speaker 2>enormous sort of interminable British gender bureaucracy whose only job

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<v Speaker 2>and only the only thing they want to do is

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<v Speaker 2>stop you from getting healthcare. There's a very very good

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<v Speaker 2>Philosophy Tube episode about this about what it's actually like

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<v Speaker 2>to be in that system, and it's terrible. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is a this is what the kinds of things that

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<v Speaker 2>are being proposed to here are. In a lot of it's

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<v Speaker 2>not exactly the same as a British system, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's bringing it much closer to that system where it's

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<v Speaker 2>basically impossible to get healthcare. And the thing about the

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<v Speaker 2>British system and about these restrictions where you know, you

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<v Speaker 2>have to have like a bioethicistant, a psychiatrist and endocrinologist,

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<v Speaker 2>and you have to like do all you have to

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<v Speaker 2>jump through all of these troops is that at every

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<v Speaker 2>single point in the process, there is another gender bureaucrat

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<v Speaker 2>who can just buy themself self decide that they're just

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<v Speaker 2>doing a trans healthcare band. And you know, every every

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<v Speaker 2>individual person you put into the process is another person

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<v Speaker 2>who could just say no. And that's what the bridge

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<v Speaker 2>system works, is that someone in the process just says

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<v Speaker 2>no and you die in a wait list.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, we know trans people in Britain and in

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<v Speaker 4>other European countries where they have like a lot of gatekeeping,

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<v Speaker 4>and you know, all of them have warned us like

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<v Speaker 4>you do not want this coming to the US. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, reminding us like all the time, like how

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<v Speaker 4>much easier are a lot of us trans people have

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<v Speaker 4>it in terms of accessing healthcare?

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<v Speaker 5>And just like, yeah, I mean everything I've heard about.

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<v Speaker 4>Like the UK healthcare system sounds like nightmarish. People asking

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<v Speaker 4>invasive questions about like your sexuality or your trauma history

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<v Speaker 4>or for youth that often ends up like involving like

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<v Speaker 4>genital inspections. For some reason, it just sounds like a horrible, dehumanizing,

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<v Speaker 4>violating experience.

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<v Speaker 5>And then yeah, and like a lot of people like.

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<v Speaker 4>Spend years and years if they you know, and are

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<v Speaker 4>lucky if they do it, are able to access care.

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<v Speaker 5>A lot of people have to go private if they

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<v Speaker 5>can afford to.

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<v Speaker 3>Honestly, before, I mean technically it was during but before

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<v Speaker 3>the full like onslaught of bills started to hit the US,

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<v Speaker 3>Like there were Brits that were trying to sound the

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<v Speaker 3>alarm and get the message out to US base.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, like it was around when the Currabell ruling happened.

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<v Speaker 4>Crabell was a d trans woman who's lawyer was affiliated

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<v Speaker 4>with the ADF, with the British branch of Alliance Defending Freedom,

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<v Speaker 4>which is behind a lot of the it's like an

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<v Speaker 4>international Christian nationalist organization that's behind a lot of the

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<v Speaker 4>healthcare bands in the US as well.

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<v Speaker 5>Also the abortion birth control.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, really nasty people. But anyway, so like Currabell, this

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<v Speaker 4>this t trans woman.

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<v Speaker 5>It's like she.

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<v Speaker 4>Sued the NHS for allowing her to transition and originally

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<v Speaker 4>like won her case and that led to basically like

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<v Speaker 4>the end of positioning for you.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, she submitted a judicial review.

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<v Speaker 3>The initial review was favorable to her, but upon further review,

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<v Speaker 3>the appeals did end up overturning it. But by that

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<v Speaker 3>point the damage had already been done. Yeah, a bunch

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<v Speaker 3>of people were starting to lose access to to care

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<v Speaker 3>and the likes and the wheels were starting to spin

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<v Speaker 3>internally as well in terms of the Tavistock system and

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<v Speaker 3>so like. As a result, like the wait lists just

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<v Speaker 3>ended up getting longer and longer and longer.

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<v Speaker 4>So that was like a huge blow that happened in

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<v Speaker 4>the UK, and like UK trails people like basically like

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<v Speaker 4>by that point starting trying to warn people in the US,

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<v Speaker 4>like this is going to come for you too, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>like get ready, like they had already been already been

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<v Speaker 4>like suffering under this like no anti transplits for a while,

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<v Speaker 4>and they like knew it was going to spread on

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<v Speaker 4>the board of the UK, And unfortunately it has.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, in like the very early stages of our project,

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<v Speaker 3>when we launched at the beginning of twenty twenty one,

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<v Speaker 3>almost immediately after the Carabell initial ruling, we hosted a

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<v Speaker 3>transcript of a podcast from Blood and Turf that was

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<v Speaker 3>trying to deliver this message over to US based comrades.

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<v Speaker 3>And unfortunately it does not appear to have reached as

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<v Speaker 3>many people as it really needed to. But we do

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<v Speaker 3>have that available in the event that people can still

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<v Speaker 3>learn from it, because this onslot is not going to stop.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's not.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I think one of the things that we're

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<v Speaker 2>seeing now is that we're now seeing kind of an

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<v Speaker 2>opening of new fronts in a way where you have,

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<v Speaker 2>in the same state at the same time you have

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<v Speaker 2>both what I guess I would call the American style

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<v Speaker 2>approach of just straight up bands and then this kind

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<v Speaker 2>of an attempt to implement this sort of British like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, attempt to implement this sort of like British

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<v Speaker 2>endow bureaucracy system. And one of the things that's been

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<v Speaker 2>happening with this is, you know, okay, so there's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of places where there's inspirations coming for this, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, we mentioned it briefly earlier. One

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<v Speaker 2>of the inspirations for this is obviously parp restrictions on abortion,

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<v Speaker 2>where you have these like unbelievably restricted like basically these

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<v Speaker 2>targeted things. When before before Roe v. Wade collapsed, there

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<v Speaker 2>was you know, you could you could ban abortions by

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<v Speaker 2>for example, you know, saying like passing a bill that

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<v Speaker 2>says that like, okay, if you want to do abortions

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<v Speaker 2>in a hospital, the walls in the hallways have to

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<v Speaker 2>be like exactly like this diameter, which is not the

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<v Speaker 2>same diameter as like as as normal hospital walls are.

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<v Speaker 2>So now you can't do abortions in hospitals, and so

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<v Speaker 2>they do things like this, right, and this is you know,

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<v Speaker 2>this has been a huge problem for a long time

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<v Speaker 2>answer anti abortion activists. I've been talking about it for ages.

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<v Speaker 2>The Democrat Party did nothing, So you know, that's I think,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's sort of like forwarding of where this

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<v Speaker 2>is going.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, a direct parallel is actually over in Arizona, if

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<v Speaker 3>I remember correctly, because one of the things that they

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<v Speaker 3>ended up doing down in Arizona is a requirement that

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<v Speaker 3>they tried to implement was this rather controversial piece where

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<v Speaker 3>they also had to provide information on abortion reversals using

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<v Speaker 3>certain types of hormone care. Right, similar to how in

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<v Speaker 3>order for people to be able to provide gender affirming

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<v Speaker 3>care they have to provide information about detransition and stuff

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<v Speaker 3>like that. But when you actually start to look at

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<v Speaker 3>some of the data, not all of it, it's some

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<v Speaker 3>of the data that they are relying on to inform

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<v Speaker 3>people of this. It is a wildly biased sample or

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<v Speaker 3>just downright pseudoscience, right, Like, they looked at the evidence

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<v Speaker 3>base for the abortion reversals and it didn't actually work

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<v Speaker 3>the way that they were saying it was, and it

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<v Speaker 3>was actually coming from very very very explicitly motivated groups.

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<v Speaker 5>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>So, Yeah, like abortion has been difficult to access in

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<v Speaker 3>Arizona for a very long time in part because of

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<v Speaker 3>some of these like obnoxious requirements that people end up

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<v Speaker 3>putting into place through trap laws.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know, I think it's it's worth noting that, like,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is true of both the anti trans bands

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<v Speaker 2>and the and anti abortioning legislation, is that, like it's

0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:48.840
<v Speaker 2>the science, they're just making it up a lot of

0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.440
<v Speaker 2>the time. Like, you know, one of the like one

0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:53.360
<v Speaker 2>of the very famous things there is these like fetal

0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:58.439
<v Speaker 2>heartbeat bills that required like and the thing about like

0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:02.720
<v Speaker 2>fetal heartbeat bills is that fetuses don't have heartbeats. You're

0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.480
<v Speaker 2>not hearing a heartbeat. Like doctors will like force you

0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:08.439
<v Speaker 2>to listen to this. It's like that it's not what's happening.

0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:13.240
<v Speaker 2>It's literally not a heartbeat. But these people, like they

0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.480
<v Speaker 2>put a stethoscope to a woman's chest and heard a

0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:17.959
<v Speaker 2>beating and we're like, oh shit, it's the baby's heart.

0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.480
<v Speaker 2>And it's like, no, it doesn't have a heart, Like wait,

0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:23.439
<v Speaker 2>this is a fetus, Like what are you even talking about.

0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:26.560
<v Speaker 2>But you know, and this kind of stuff, right is

0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, they're they're they're they're basically they're they're doing

0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.200
<v Speaker 2>just scientific malpractice, right, They're straight up lying to people,

0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:37.640
<v Speaker 2>and then they're using that as a justification for you know,

0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.520
<v Speaker 2>actual legislation which has sort of material impact and like

0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:43.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, carries the force of the law behind it,

0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.880
<v Speaker 2>et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And we've been seeing

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.920
<v Speaker 2>a lot of very similar kinds of things from from

0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:52.520
<v Speaker 2>these anti trans legislation. And one of one of the

0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:56.520
<v Speaker 2>ways that they've been able to use sort of pseudoscience

0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:02.400
<v Speaker 2>to get restrictions on healthcare past and this is this

0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:04.880
<v Speaker 2>is true both of sort of the straight up bands

0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.760
<v Speaker 2>and also of these kind of like massive bureaucratic restrictions

0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.640
<v Speaker 2>is by allying with groups of sort of of right

0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:17.080
<v Speaker 2>wing detransitioners. And we're going to talk about that more

0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 2>after this ad break, because we unfortunately are reliant on

0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:36.920
<v Speaker 2>ads to cover this stuff. So yeah, here's here's ads. Okay,

0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.840
<v Speaker 2>we are back, and this is the point where we

0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:44.000
<v Speaker 2>need to talk about the stuff in the Ohio story

0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:49.840
<v Speaker 2>that is very weird. Now. I think if people have

0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.640
<v Speaker 2>been following the story of sort of anti trans bills,

0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:55.520
<v Speaker 2>one of the things that's been happening a lot is

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:57.960
<v Speaker 2>there's been this sort of there's there's a network of

0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:03.280
<v Speaker 2>people who de transition and for various reasons I don't know,

0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.440
<v Speaker 2>who have become very very hardline right wingers who have

0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:11.400
<v Speaker 2>basically been doing like circuits of the capitals of you know,

0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.800
<v Speaker 2>like state capitals and like going to Capitol Hill and

0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:16.600
<v Speaker 2>like telling their quote unquote stories to try to get

0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:20.280
<v Speaker 2>this to try to get like all trans healthcare bands. Now,

0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.600
<v Speaker 2>so this is you know, this is something we've covered

0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.480
<v Speaker 2>on the show in the past. What is very weird

0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.240
<v Speaker 2>about Ohio is that you had a group of these

0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:35.000
<v Speaker 2>right wing transitioners who specifically we're trying to get it

0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.000
<v Speaker 2>looked like at very at least we're trying to get

0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:41.440
<v Speaker 2>we're trying to stop the like the actual uh like

0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.960
<v Speaker 2>gender firming care ban from going through, and we're in

0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:47.360
<v Speaker 2>favor of more of this restriction stuff. Is that is

0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.200
<v Speaker 2>that is that what am I getting this right?

0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.600
<v Speaker 5>Not not exactly. There's a couple of.

0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:57.920
<v Speaker 2>No, okay, Le, sorry, I'm I.

0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:02.040
<v Speaker 3>I can provide my my brief description here real quick,

0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.240
<v Speaker 3>and then you can retake aspects of that stuff. Because

0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.360
<v Speaker 3>something to bear in mind is the fact that, like

0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:13.640
<v Speaker 3>some of the opposition in the Ohio testimonies are actually

0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.760
<v Speaker 3>coming from people who view themselves as very left wing.

0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:21.080
<v Speaker 3>These are radical feminists. Specifically, they are just hardcore opposing I.

0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.400
<v Speaker 4>Mean, I would say they're they're actual politics are for

0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:24.760
<v Speaker 4>a reactionary.

0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.480
<v Speaker 2>Even Yeah, they call.

0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:27.360
<v Speaker 5>Themselves left wing.

0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:29.320
<v Speaker 4>They see themselves as being opposed to the right, like

0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.720
<v Speaker 4>that's how they present themselves, and they definitely believe that

0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:32.920
<v Speaker 4>their anti right wing.

0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:40.160
<v Speaker 3>But there's there's also another component. This one is like

0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.600
<v Speaker 3>the nuances are sometimes almost impossible to be able to

0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:46.200
<v Speaker 3>tease out.

0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:47.840
<v Speaker 5>I swear tomato tomato.

0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.440
<v Speaker 3>But one of the people who was a proponent for

0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.000
<v Speaker 3>both this current bill and a past bill is actually

0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:59.200
<v Speaker 3>Corina Cone, who does not consider herself to be right wing.

0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 3>Though she does here to be working with a number

0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:05.200
<v Speaker 3>of right wing people, she considers herself to be quote

0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:10.320
<v Speaker 3>unquote libertarian. Now, this is a red flag for those

0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:12.960
<v Speaker 3>of us who have done any sort of like real

0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:17.840
<v Speaker 3>engagement with certain types of libertarians or political organizing or

0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:21.280
<v Speaker 3>whatever in that if you actually pay attention to some

0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.040
<v Speaker 3>of the arguments that are being made or the collaborations

0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.440
<v Speaker 3>that are being made, you can generally tell which direction

0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.240
<v Speaker 3>their politics are truly leaning towards right?

0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:31.640
<v Speaker 5>Is it left wing? Is it right wing?

0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:37.040
<v Speaker 3>And hers have been steering far and far more right wing.

0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:41.760
<v Speaker 3>Like she uses the excuse of, you know, I want

0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.680
<v Speaker 3>small government and stuff like that, but if you're working

0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:52.080
<v Speaker 3>with like legislators to put in full on bands, I'm sorry, honey,

0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:53.080
<v Speaker 3>that's not small government.

0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:54.719
<v Speaker 5>That's not small government.

0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:59.439
<v Speaker 3>That is the opposite of small government actually, and so like, like,

0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:03.960
<v Speaker 3>it's kind of hard to sort of like encapsulate the

0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:09.720
<v Speaker 3>entirety of like the proponents of the opposition into particular

0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.680
<v Speaker 3>political alignments because a lot of it is really based

0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:16.840
<v Speaker 3>off of, like what are their motivations and who are

0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:18.000
<v Speaker 3>they willing to work with?

0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:19.960
<v Speaker 5>Which again, tomato, tomato.

0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.119
<v Speaker 3>But I'll have to come back to the Corona Cone

0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.119
<v Speaker 3>one at some point here too, because that one is

0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:29.080
<v Speaker 3>actually an important timeline in terms of understanding the Ohio bills.

0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.919
<v Speaker 4>Mm hmm, yeah, I mean basically, I mean you have

0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:35.760
<v Speaker 4>like these. You do have like right wing beat transition

0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:40.400
<v Speaker 4>people like Chloe Cole or Christian Boseley, Laura Becker who

0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.119
<v Speaker 4>like do you know they they'll be hanging out with

0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:49.880
<v Speaker 4>like the Heritage Foundation or Billboard Chris or the Cue Shop, yeah,

0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.719
<v Speaker 4>or Our Duty like and they very much are just

0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.600
<v Speaker 4>working to try to pass these full on bands. But

0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:59.560
<v Speaker 4>then yeah, you have also these like d trans Turf

0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:05.520
<v Speaker 4>and they're more liberal fellow travelers who definitely see themselves

0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.520
<v Speaker 4>as being opposed to the right and are opposed to

0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:11.560
<v Speaker 4>I mean they they're opposed to the right because they

0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:13.479
<v Speaker 4>see right being Christians as being a threat to them

0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.600
<v Speaker 4>as well, and are at least smart enough to understand

0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.440
<v Speaker 4>that if you know, right being Christians have their way,

0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:21.800
<v Speaker 4>they're going to suffer too. But they also want to

0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.000
<v Speaker 4>end trans healthcare or restrict it.

0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.760
<v Speaker 5>I mean some of the.

0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 4>Two of the people who helped organize, helped collect the

0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.960
<v Speaker 4>testimony the group statement that was submitted under the name

0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.679
<v Speaker 4>are you asking why Max and Katie Robinson they have

0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:37.920
<v Speaker 4>ties to Janice Raymond?

0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:41.120
<v Speaker 5>That's serious, Yeah, they do.

0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:46.760
<v Speaker 4>Janis Raymond help publish Max Robinson's book over Ats Spinefects

0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:53.200
<v Speaker 4>Press this Swurf and Turf publisher. So yeah, they they're

0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.480
<v Speaker 4>not actually approach Frans.

0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Like, yeah, well we should, we should mention. So Janis

0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.480
<v Speaker 2>Raymond for people who some we we've talked about on

0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.239
<v Speaker 2>the show a few times, but Shann's Raymond wrote a

0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:07.280
<v Speaker 2>book called The Transsexual Empire, and okay, so people normally

0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.120
<v Speaker 2>leave off the subtitle of it, which is called It's

0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.560
<v Speaker 2>the Transsexual Empire. The Making of the She Mail. It's

0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:18.399
<v Speaker 2>like one of the original like original anti trans people,

0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:22.840
<v Speaker 2>like incredibly violent transfo like like both both in terms

0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:27.040
<v Speaker 2>of like the career of her work, like physically like

0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.600
<v Speaker 2>violently anti trans and yeah, yeah, she is. She is

0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:34.560
<v Speaker 2>connected to a lot of the modern anti trans groups

0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:38.560
<v Speaker 2>and also the modern like the modern I don't know

0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:41.960
<v Speaker 2>what you'd call them, people who are attempting to take

0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:44.679
<v Speaker 2>away trans healthcare but who don't see themselves as anti trans.

0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.159
<v Speaker 5>I have no idea how to even summarize that.

0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:51.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, bad, I don't know.

0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:57.760
<v Speaker 4>I kind of yes, yeah, yeah, so like I mean yeah,

0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:01.479
<v Speaker 4>and I mean yeah, Max and kid fully endorse, uh,

0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:02.840
<v Speaker 4>Janice Raymond's theories.

0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:03.680
<v Speaker 5>I mean Janice Raymond.

0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:06.080
<v Speaker 4>One of the things she's famous for is saying that like,

0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:10.199
<v Speaker 4>like transsexualism should be morally mandate out of existence, like

0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:13.600
<v Speaker 4>Max Robinson has said that she supports that. They also

0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:20.320
<v Speaker 4>both I mean Janice Raymond focused heavily on trans women overall,

0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:23.879
<v Speaker 4>and you know, also claim that basically like trans women

0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:29.200
<v Speaker 4>were you know, committing sexual assaults against women just for existing. Yeah,

0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:33.440
<v Speaker 4>Max and Kitty are also horrible transpasogynists to actually make

0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:37.520
<v Speaker 4>I mean, Kitty makes a lot of propaganda tracking attacking

0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:40.320
<v Speaker 4>transomen and trying to cast all trans women as predators.

0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:42.960
<v Speaker 4>And yeah, just not people you want on your side,

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:43.679
<v Speaker 4>because they're not.

0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:46.040
<v Speaker 5>They're danger to all trans people.

0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.320
<v Speaker 4>They're just like trying to find a way to influence

0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:50.000
<v Speaker 4>trans healthcare in.

0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:53.680
<v Speaker 5>A different way. And I mean, I I'm.

0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:55.719
<v Speaker 4>Concerned that people will hear like, oh, look at all

0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:58.280
<v Speaker 4>these ds, like these supposedly trans friendly, these trans people

0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.160
<v Speaker 4>who testified against this ban, now realizing that these are

0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:04.240
<v Speaker 4>actually like person with an agenda who I mean part

0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:05.760
<v Speaker 4>of them. Part of what they want to do is

0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:10.199
<v Speaker 4>to infiltrate like queer entry on subcultures and promo like

0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.600
<v Speaker 4>profideology and recruit people.

0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:16.720
<v Speaker 3>Like let's put it this way, So Max Robinson in

0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:21.440
<v Speaker 3>terms of some of her beliefs, refers to medical transition

0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:25.800
<v Speaker 3>for like trans masculine folks as a sato ritual, going

0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:28.120
<v Speaker 3>back to Mary daily types of.

0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:29.080
<v Speaker 5>Descriptions of things.

0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:33.919
<v Speaker 3>And then Kitty was one of the people that was

0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:38.960
<v Speaker 3>interviewed for and gave extensive background information for a BBC

0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:42.520
<v Speaker 3>article that was released. I believe it was called something

0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:45.120
<v Speaker 3>along the lines of we are being pressured into sex

0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:48.119
<v Speaker 3>by some trans women, which is basically good, yes, that

0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:52.760
<v Speaker 3>one right, like so yea even into this narrative that

0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:56.639
<v Speaker 3>trans women are sexual predators right into the British media

0:22:56.680 --> 0:23:00.479
<v Speaker 3>when they were already having a massive influx of anti

0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:05.560
<v Speaker 3>trans media that was again feeding into the demonization of

0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:08.639
<v Speaker 3>trans people as a whole, but then also like controlling

0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:10.760
<v Speaker 3>trans youth and the likes and of course this article

0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:14.160
<v Speaker 3>not only did it end up originally platforming like an

0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:15.760
<v Speaker 3>actual like serial.

0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:19.720
<v Speaker 2>Rape yeah, Lily kaid like someone someone a serial rapist

0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:24.760
<v Speaker 2>so prolific that like, within like maybe thirty minutes of

0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:29.239
<v Speaker 2>this article going up, like multiple like probably like a

0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:31.960
<v Speaker 2>dozen people had come forward and been like she raped

0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:34.600
<v Speaker 2>me like that. That is the person that the BBC

0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:38.879
<v Speaker 2>was like coming forward to do this shit with.

0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:43.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, she ended up posting basically a manifesto on her

0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:48.119
<v Speaker 3>website that was even more extreme than aspects of the

0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:50.399
<v Speaker 3>article showed off. And then I will also note that

0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:53.840
<v Speaker 3>this article was originally I believe it was only translated

0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:56.880
<v Speaker 3>into Portuguese in order to be oh yeah, moved into

0:23:56.960 --> 0:23:59.520
<v Speaker 3>BBC Zila Yeah yeah, which is also one of the

0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:02.600
<v Speaker 3>countries has one of the highest rates of trans femicide.

0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:05.879
<v Speaker 3>So like, yeah, these these are the people that decided

0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:07.679
<v Speaker 3>to go ahead and testify.

0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:11.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Like, well, I'm those of personally bring up Max

0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:12.520
<v Speaker 4>and Kitty because like they were some of the people

0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:15.280
<v Speaker 4>who helped like get the testimonies, Like I found a

0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:20.240
<v Speaker 4>post on Kitty's tumblr blog looking for d trans and

0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:23.280
<v Speaker 4>desisted women who were willing to testify against a ban.

0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:26.800
<v Speaker 4>And then Max was the one who actually submitted the

0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:30.720
<v Speaker 4>collective statement from Arius king Wise, he also submitted an

0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:33.400
<v Speaker 4>individual statement to So basically like they found a bunch

0:24:33.480 --> 0:24:36.800
<v Speaker 4>of like detrans and desisted turfs on Tumblr to sign

0:24:36.800 --> 0:24:40.280
<v Speaker 4>a statement and then submit to like the state of Ohio,

0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:41.600
<v Speaker 4>which is kind of wild to think about.

0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:49.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you don't normally expect to see testimony from turf tumblr,

0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:51.120
<v Speaker 3>let alone transfer Tumblr.

0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:54.480
<v Speaker 5>But that is like that happened? Yeah? Really who you

0:24:54.520 --> 0:24:55.359
<v Speaker 5>want to show up for you?

0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Really not good in terms of who you want

0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:02.920
<v Speaker 2>doing your.

0:25:02.880 --> 0:25:08.000
<v Speaker 5>Legislation, Like oh god, yeah yeah.

0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:11.199
<v Speaker 2>So okay, we need to take another ad break and

0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:13.400
<v Speaker 2>then we will come back and talk more about this.

0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:28.720
<v Speaker 2>So enjoy your brief capitalistic respite from the horror of capitalism.

0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:29.440
<v Speaker 2>We are back.

0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:34.159
<v Speaker 3>In order to properly understand the situation in Ohio, you

0:25:34.280 --> 0:25:37.680
<v Speaker 3>kind of have to go back several years, right. One

0:25:37.720 --> 0:25:41.439
<v Speaker 3>of the bills that ended up being proposed in twenty

0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:46.040
<v Speaker 3>twenty was HB five to one three. This was another

0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:50.119
<v Speaker 3>version of a proposed ban on gender firming care for

0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:54.800
<v Speaker 3>trans youth in particular, and it was sponsored by Representatives

0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:58.480
<v Speaker 3>Ron Hood and Bill Dean. This one is interesting because

0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:02.280
<v Speaker 3>one of the group that ended up coming out in

0:26:02.359 --> 0:26:07.800
<v Speaker 3>opposition to it was the Gendercare Consumer Advocacy Network. This

0:26:07.880 --> 0:26:12.080
<v Speaker 3>is the organization that I helped found in twenty nineteen

0:26:12.119 --> 0:26:17.000
<v Speaker 3>prior to my resignation. They submitted this opposition after my resignation,

0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:22.359
<v Speaker 3>but it is available on archives. Then, in twenty twenty

0:26:22.440 --> 0:26:26.879
<v Speaker 3>one and the twenty twenty two legislative session, there was

0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:30.639
<v Speaker 3>the proposal for HP four or five four, which was

0:26:30.760 --> 0:26:34.800
<v Speaker 3>another proposed ban on gender for main care for trans youth.

0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:38.320
<v Speaker 3>This time it was being sponsored by Representative Gary Klick,

0:26:38.680 --> 0:26:41.960
<v Speaker 3>who was also the sponsor of the current bill that

0:26:42.160 --> 0:26:46.080
<v Speaker 3>had recently been vetoed and then the V two vtwed

0:26:46.640 --> 0:26:50.239
<v Speaker 3>And in May of twenty twenty two, the Gender Care

0:26:50.320 --> 0:26:56.879
<v Speaker 3>Consumer Advocacy Network or GCCAM testified in tentative support. The

0:26:57.000 --> 0:27:03.639
<v Speaker 3>testimony was submitted by coronicone and included suggestions for amendments.

0:27:03.920 --> 0:27:07.119
<v Speaker 3>These amendments are actually very important. One of the amendments

0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:11.480
<v Speaker 3>that she recommended was on data tracking. I believe it

0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:15.959
<v Speaker 3>says here The second amendment would be a requirement for physicians,

0:27:16.080 --> 0:27:20.560
<v Speaker 3>mental health care providers, and other medical healthcare professionals mandating

0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:25.479
<v Speaker 3>an annual report to the Ohio Department of Health the number, age,

0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:29.480
<v Speaker 3>and sex of minor patients who are receiving gender transition

0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:34.120
<v Speaker 3>services of any type. This was what she originally proposed

0:27:34.119 --> 0:27:37.920
<v Speaker 3>as an amendment to the bill. The bill again did

0:27:37.920 --> 0:27:41.359
<v Speaker 3>not end up passing, but now we are seeing HB

0:27:41.520 --> 0:27:44.520
<v Speaker 3>sixty eight, which is the one that merges the ban

0:27:44.680 --> 0:27:48.480
<v Speaker 3>on gender forming care for trans youth and a sports ban.

0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:53.359
<v Speaker 3>Because I guess you know, trans youth plane chess is

0:27:53.720 --> 0:27:58.480
<v Speaker 3>somehow like threatening. But so this one was again represented

0:27:59.160 --> 0:28:02.960
<v Speaker 3>like sponsored by reps preentive Click, and this time, curiously enough,

0:28:03.520 --> 0:28:08.280
<v Speaker 3>Karina had been working more extensively with Click during various

0:28:08.280 --> 0:28:09.879
<v Speaker 3>portions of the.

0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:12.920
<v Speaker 5>Of the push for the bill.

0:28:13.240 --> 0:28:17.000
<v Speaker 3>Right, you know, she testified multiple times she's posted videos

0:28:17.040 --> 0:28:21.720
<v Speaker 3>with him, pictures, et cetera. Another person who had originally

0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:27.760
<v Speaker 3>founded the organization, Carrie Callahan, did originally start opposing. Curiously

0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:32.199
<v Speaker 3>she did not note her prior experience with the organization,

0:28:32.600 --> 0:28:37.040
<v Speaker 3>but she did start to oppose the bill, and then

0:28:37.400 --> 0:28:42.600
<v Speaker 3>later starts to put out basically like a more general

0:28:42.800 --> 0:28:47.200
<v Speaker 3>call for opposition to HB sixty eight, right, you know,

0:28:47.320 --> 0:28:53.680
<v Speaker 3>trying to collect in you know, various types of detransitioned

0:28:53.760 --> 0:28:59.160
<v Speaker 3>people who were opposed to bands on gender affirming care right,

0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:04.720
<v Speaker 3>and then who is it that ends up showing up?

0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:13.240
<v Speaker 3>It's this weird little like Turf group that originally came

0:29:13.320 --> 0:29:17.720
<v Speaker 3>out of d Trans Turf Tumbler in twenty thirteen, that

0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:24.120
<v Speaker 3>historically speaking, she had prior working relationships with and even

0:29:24.240 --> 0:29:27.120
<v Speaker 3>presented their stories to us path.

0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:30.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and also I mean Max Robinson too, like both

0:29:30.920 --> 0:29:34.360
<v Speaker 4>her both Max Robinson and Carrie Callahan were both featured

0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:38.360
<v Speaker 4>in Jesse Single's Atlantic article too. There's lots of points

0:29:38.360 --> 0:29:42.240
<v Speaker 4>of connection. They've been they've known each other since at

0:29:42.280 --> 0:29:45.560
<v Speaker 4>least twenty sixteen, and you know, work together.

0:29:47.200 --> 0:29:51.280
<v Speaker 3>Like I can't say for certain how it is that

0:29:51.320 --> 0:29:55.680
<v Speaker 3>they ended up there. Personally, to me, it seems a

0:29:55.720 --> 0:30:02.000
<v Speaker 3>little weird that people who had prior relationships dating back

0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:05.640
<v Speaker 3>a decade are showing up in the same place again,

0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:12.200
<v Speaker 3>And like they are also showing up in legislative testimony

0:30:12.240 --> 0:30:16.400
<v Speaker 3>for the first time in the state where some like

0:30:16.520 --> 0:30:20.120
<v Speaker 3>one of the central figures for a long time there

0:30:20.280 --> 0:30:24.320
<v Speaker 3>is putting out a call to oppose this particular bill.

0:30:24.480 --> 0:30:29.000
<v Speaker 3>Like the coincidences are racking up a little bit here.

0:30:29.160 --> 0:30:31.760
<v Speaker 3>It might be good to ask some further questions about

0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:36.959
<v Speaker 3>what exactly happened, because I have some questions. So, you know,

0:30:37.080 --> 0:30:41.240
<v Speaker 3>this happened in December of twenty twenty three. Right. Eventually

0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:46.240
<v Speaker 3>Governor Dwine goes ahead and vetos. But at the same

0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:51.360
<v Speaker 3>time he makes his you know, proposal for the drafting

0:30:51.480 --> 0:30:55.040
<v Speaker 3>of new regulations with you know, the Department of Health

0:30:55.040 --> 0:31:00.360
<v Speaker 3>and the likes, and within that is the suggestion of

0:31:00.800 --> 0:31:04.320
<v Speaker 3>detailed data tracking. That is reported to the Department of

0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:08.800
<v Speaker 3>Health and then to the general public every six months,

0:31:09.360 --> 0:31:15.959
<v Speaker 3>focusing on things like, you know, I don't think that

0:31:16.160 --> 0:31:21.400
<v Speaker 3>he wanted to focus on like the number of people

0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:25.120
<v Speaker 3>that were doing it, but he did include a like

0:31:25.560 --> 0:31:29.040
<v Speaker 3>the nature of the diagnosis. It applies to all ages.

0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:33.840
<v Speaker 3>It was not originally restricted to trans youth, like the

0:31:33.880 --> 0:31:39.920
<v Speaker 3>original testimony was from from gc CAN. The time range

0:31:40.040 --> 0:31:43.440
<v Speaker 3>was also ended up being like it's shortened. He wants

0:31:43.440 --> 0:31:46.600
<v Speaker 3>it every six months, not every year. But you know,

0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:50.280
<v Speaker 3>very similar kinds of things, right in terms of what

0:31:50.400 --> 0:31:53.720
<v Speaker 3>it is that he is proposing for this mass collection

0:31:53.880 --> 0:31:58.080
<v Speaker 3>of data and a previous testimony that was submitted to

0:31:58.200 --> 0:32:05.160
<v Speaker 3>the Ohio Legislature. In fact, like not long after that fact,

0:32:05.680 --> 0:32:09.160
<v Speaker 3>Representative Clique ended up going on an interview with Tony

0:32:09.200 --> 0:32:13.040
<v Speaker 3>Perkins of Family Research Council talking about the pending veto.

0:32:13.200 --> 0:32:16.680
<v Speaker 3>They originally did this interview on January ninth, and he

0:32:17.160 --> 0:32:22.760
<v Speaker 3>noted that the data collection suggestion was originally included in

0:32:22.800 --> 0:32:26.840
<v Speaker 3>a draft version of his bill, but was removed due

0:32:26.840 --> 0:32:31.040
<v Speaker 3>to opposition, and so he's glad actually that that was included,

0:32:31.360 --> 0:32:34.960
<v Speaker 3>although he wished that there would be even more restrictions.

0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:38.720
<v Speaker 3>He actually was going to encourage the governor to also

0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:42.560
<v Speaker 3>sign an executive order banning the use of puberty blockers,

0:32:42.680 --> 0:32:45.560
<v Speaker 3>not just surgery. As far as I can tell, that

0:32:45.600 --> 0:32:47.480
<v Speaker 3>has not happened, but he did say that he was

0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:56.560
<v Speaker 3>going to try. But like it's like there's there's definitely

0:32:56.600 --> 0:33:00.280
<v Speaker 3>some weird kind of like escalations that end up happening,

0:33:00.560 --> 0:33:05.080
<v Speaker 3>and some of the like some of the interconnecting threads

0:33:05.120 --> 0:33:08.479
<v Speaker 3>with individuals that again just happened to keep showing up

0:33:08.520 --> 0:33:11.760
<v Speaker 3>in the same place over and over and over again,

0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:15.880
<v Speaker 3>either in support or in opposition. Some folks have been

0:33:15.960 --> 0:33:20.280
<v Speaker 3>consistently opposed, whereas other people have been kind of flip flopping.

0:33:20.840 --> 0:33:25.560
<v Speaker 3>The GCCN organization is one of the ones that flip flopped.

0:33:26.400 --> 0:33:30.640
<v Speaker 3>It originally opposed all bands, and then now all of

0:33:30.680 --> 0:33:34.560
<v Speaker 3>a sudden, it's like, you know, the person that they

0:33:34.560 --> 0:33:37.520
<v Speaker 3>are throwing out into these testimonies was arguing in favor

0:33:37.560 --> 0:33:40.240
<v Speaker 3>of them, and then like, you know, the the quote

0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:43.640
<v Speaker 3>unquote are you asking why? Collective and to be fair,

0:33:43.720 --> 0:33:48.360
<v Speaker 3>Carrie Callahan have also been firmly opposed to full on

0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:51.480
<v Speaker 3>bands and the Christian right pretty much from the beginning,

0:33:51.880 --> 0:33:54.720
<v Speaker 3>though for very very very different reasons.

0:33:55.440 --> 0:33:57.520
<v Speaker 4>I mean some other opposition was like, well, people will

0:33:57.560 --> 0:33:59.240
<v Speaker 4>go to like could go to other states where there's

0:33:59.280 --> 0:34:03.280
<v Speaker 4>less restrictions, Like no, the stuff we have, you know,

0:34:03.360 --> 0:34:07.480
<v Speaker 4>HIAS already like has a lot of restrictions, and majority

0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:10.319
<v Speaker 4>of trans youth like only get counseling and they don't

0:34:10.320 --> 0:34:13.040
<v Speaker 4>get any like none of them get surgery, and most

0:34:13.080 --> 0:34:15.319
<v Speaker 4>of them, like only a very small number of them

0:34:15.360 --> 0:34:17.799
<v Speaker 4>get puberty blockers or horrormones. So this should be like

0:34:17.920 --> 0:34:21.040
<v Speaker 4>this should be an example for the entire country. Like

0:34:21.080 --> 0:34:25.160
<v Speaker 4>that was kind of Carrie Gallahan's take on things. And

0:34:25.200 --> 0:34:29.680
<v Speaker 4>then like I mean, yeah, a lot of the more

0:34:29.719 --> 0:34:33.640
<v Speaker 4>like the d trans turfs, like the Robinson's or other

0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:35.799
<v Speaker 4>members of our vesting wives. It's like, okay, well they're

0:34:35.800 --> 0:34:38.160
<v Speaker 4>opposed to the Christian Right, and they recognize that like

0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:40.880
<v Speaker 4>if the Christian Right gains more power and is banning things,

0:34:40.920 --> 0:34:44.520
<v Speaker 4>that's bad not just for trans people but also for

0:34:45.000 --> 0:34:47.440
<v Speaker 4>you know, cis, lesbian and gay people and says women

0:34:47.600 --> 0:34:50.000
<v Speaker 4>and you know it will end up hurting them too.

0:34:50.040 --> 0:34:52.960
<v Speaker 4>So I mean, even from a self preservation stance, they

0:34:53.000 --> 0:34:55.439
<v Speaker 4>understand like why they should be opposed to the Christian Right,

0:34:56.000 --> 0:34:58.320
<v Speaker 4>but they're still if you actually read their testimony. A

0:34:58.360 --> 0:35:00.400
<v Speaker 4>lot of them do make it clear that they're posed

0:35:00.440 --> 0:35:04.160
<v Speaker 4>to transition. Like one one person called it like compared

0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:07.640
<v Speaker 4>medical like trans healthcare to like a hydra said that

0:35:07.719 --> 0:35:10.120
<v Speaker 4>like it would only be cutting off ahead.

0:35:10.120 --> 0:35:10.800
<v Speaker 5>Like these aren't.

0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:13.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and so a lot of them were, you know,

0:35:13.440 --> 0:35:18.040
<v Speaker 4>we're also kind of praising uh, you know regulations like

0:35:18.080 --> 0:35:22.920
<v Speaker 4>the group uh statement talks about like it's like, you know,

0:35:22.960 --> 0:35:26.080
<v Speaker 4>shutting down clinics when improve anyone's quality of care. Ohio's

0:35:26.120 --> 0:35:28.719
<v Speaker 4>existing programs are known for their moderation.

0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:30.080
<v Speaker 6>Uh.

0:35:30.239 --> 0:35:32.960
<v Speaker 4>They don't perform surgery on minors. Many clinics out of

0:35:33.000 --> 0:35:35.239
<v Speaker 4>state do. Lata YadA.

0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:43.239
<v Speaker 3>So Max Robinson's testimony also said similar, but that she

0:35:43.360 --> 0:35:45.799
<v Speaker 3>had it on good word from an Ohio in right,

0:35:46.400 --> 0:35:48.360
<v Speaker 3>I have yes, you had.

0:35:48.239 --> 0:35:50.440
<v Speaker 4>Say I hear if I'm good authority from an Ohio

0:35:50.520 --> 0:35:54.520
<v Speaker 4>in that pediactric gender clinics there prescribed hormones pretty sparingly

0:35:54.560 --> 0:35:59.560
<v Speaker 4>and don't actually perform any underage transition surgeries. Other states do, though,

0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:03.359
<v Speaker 4>So there's like this whole thing. It's like like they're

0:36:03.400 --> 0:36:04.560
<v Speaker 4>still kind of scaremonger.

0:36:04.600 --> 0:36:05.640
<v Speaker 5>It's like, oh, but these other.

0:36:05.560 --> 0:36:09.400
<v Speaker 4>States, like we're transition as a minor those are bad,

0:36:09.920 --> 0:36:11.680
<v Speaker 4>but they're still making it clear that the idea that

0:36:11.719 --> 0:36:15.040
<v Speaker 4>people having easy access to transition, especially as youth, is like.

0:36:15.080 --> 0:36:18.000
<v Speaker 5>A bad thing in their minds.

0:36:18.280 --> 0:36:20.399
<v Speaker 4>I don't think we actually mentioned like how like if

0:36:20.400 --> 0:36:23.560
<v Speaker 4>you actually look at the collective statement, that are you

0:36:23.600 --> 0:36:26.040
<v Speaker 4>asking why issued and like who signed it? Like a

0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:28.640
<v Speaker 4>whole bunch of them didn't actually transition, Like a lot

0:36:28.640 --> 0:36:31.960
<v Speaker 4>of them are actually desisted, which means that they like

0:36:32.280 --> 0:36:37.960
<v Speaker 4>never actually medically transitioned. They considered transitioning or maybe socially transitioned,

0:36:38.000 --> 0:36:42.400
<v Speaker 4>but then they decided not to medically transition, possibly after

0:36:42.680 --> 0:36:45.799
<v Speaker 4>you know, converting to anti transfeminism or the like. So

0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:48.200
<v Speaker 4>it's just a bunch of people who like I decided

0:36:48.239 --> 0:36:51.800
<v Speaker 4>not to transition. I'm desisted, like you know, testifying against

0:36:51.840 --> 0:36:54.640
<v Speaker 4>a healthcare ban. It's also like a kind of a

0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:56.759
<v Speaker 4>classic strategy too. It is like they have a bunch

0:36:56.800 --> 0:37:00.000
<v Speaker 4>of like desisted people along mixed in with people who actually,

0:37:00.000 --> 0:37:01.799
<v Speaker 4>so you like, transition and do transition to kind of

0:37:01.840 --> 0:37:05.480
<v Speaker 4>like inflate the numbers. Yeah, this is a standard. Yeah, this

0:37:05.520 --> 0:37:08.200
<v Speaker 4>is very standard. It's an old trick. It's it's like

0:37:08.200 --> 0:37:11.120
<v Speaker 4>oh yeah, you're like okay, yeah, and then a bunch

0:37:11.120 --> 0:37:12.640
<v Speaker 4>of them are also like saying the ones who did

0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:15.600
<v Speaker 4>like you know, transition and new transition, they're like emphasizing

0:37:15.640 --> 0:37:18.839
<v Speaker 4>how they a few of them like are emphasizing how young.

0:37:18.840 --> 0:37:23.359
<v Speaker 5>They were when they transitioned and be transitioned. Again, not exactly, yeah,

0:37:23.480 --> 0:37:24.120
<v Speaker 5>not exactly.

0:37:24.160 --> 0:37:31.560
<v Speaker 3>Protrums this collective here with like pretty pretty explicit turf ties,

0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:36.080
<v Speaker 3>including some of them directly to Trannis. Rammond herself was

0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:40.719
<v Speaker 3>the bulk of the opposition de transitioned people to the bill.

0:37:40.800 --> 0:37:44.759
<v Speaker 3>I should note, like that's fifteen signatures right there. People

0:37:44.800 --> 0:37:47.640
<v Speaker 3>are talking about like how there were nineteen people that

0:37:47.719 --> 0:37:52.919
<v Speaker 3>were opposed, so fifteen of them were either like part

0:37:53.000 --> 0:37:56.920
<v Speaker 3>of the recruitment or actively recruited on d trans turf tumpler.

0:37:57.440 --> 0:37:59.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and then like at least five of them are

0:37:59.120 --> 0:38:08.120
<v Speaker 4>just assisted they're transitions. It's not clear about everyone, but yeah, yeah, it's.

0:38:09.160 --> 0:38:10.000
<v Speaker 5>It's weird.

0:38:10.600 --> 0:38:11.120
<v Speaker 1>It's just.

0:38:12.960 --> 0:38:16.759
<v Speaker 3>It's really weird. And it's also been really weird to

0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:20.560
<v Speaker 3>see the media just kind of take that.

0:38:21.719 --> 0:38:24.560
<v Speaker 4>Testimony of theirs at face value that it's been a

0:38:24.560 --> 0:38:26.040
<v Speaker 4>problem for a long time. It is like getting the

0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:30.400
<v Speaker 4>media to actually sort of like investigate or care about

0:38:30.440 --> 0:38:34.239
<v Speaker 4>people's like political views or activism or actually kind of

0:38:34.239 --> 0:38:36.920
<v Speaker 4>being like like sometimes like I think, like I say,

0:38:37.000 --> 0:38:40.680
<v Speaker 4>like the Basilon New York Times story we were talking

0:38:40.680 --> 0:38:43.360
<v Speaker 4>about before, has Grace Liton Ski Smith and there without

0:38:43.480 --> 0:38:46.719
<v Speaker 4>saying that she was you know, affiliated with J. C.

0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:50.239
<v Speaker 5>Kan and she's like not just with the president, she

0:38:50.360 --> 0:38:52.319
<v Speaker 5>was the president. Yeah. Yeah, so it's like.

0:38:52.280 --> 0:38:54.160
<v Speaker 4>It's like, Okay, she's just like represented as just like

0:38:54.200 --> 0:38:56.520
<v Speaker 4>you know, as a deutrons woman without going into like

0:38:56.560 --> 0:38:59.719
<v Speaker 4>actually she's the head of this political organization, and that's

0:38:59.719 --> 0:39:00.880
<v Speaker 4>just this has happened.

0:39:00.880 --> 0:39:03.400
<v Speaker 5>This has been a problem for years.

0:39:04.880 --> 0:39:05.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:39:05.320 --> 0:39:08.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So it's just like, I mean, just a whole

0:39:08.040 --> 0:39:11.880
<v Speaker 4>lot of different sketchy characters kind of came out for

0:39:12.440 --> 0:39:13.200
<v Speaker 4>what's going.

0:39:13.000 --> 0:39:15.520
<v Speaker 5>On in Ohio. I mean, you have like.

0:39:16.600 --> 0:39:19.799
<v Speaker 4>You know, Republicans and right wing Christians who just want

0:39:19.840 --> 0:39:25.680
<v Speaker 4>to straight up ban transition and move towards eliminating it

0:39:25.760 --> 0:39:28.520
<v Speaker 4>for for all trans people and workers, making it, you know,

0:39:29.040 --> 0:39:31.920
<v Speaker 4>as impossible for trans people to live in society as

0:39:31.920 --> 0:39:35.200
<v Speaker 4>they can. And then you have kind of more like

0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:42.000
<v Speaker 4>tricky Republicans like de Wine sort of like pretending to

0:39:42.000 --> 0:39:44.239
<v Speaker 4>find some kind of compromise and be like oh, we're

0:39:44.280 --> 0:39:48.080
<v Speaker 4>just trying to work for like more comprehensive healthcare that

0:39:48.360 --> 0:39:51.120
<v Speaker 4>like so everyone gets what they need, and like sort

0:39:51.160 --> 0:39:54.200
<v Speaker 4>of like using some of the language that was used

0:39:54.200 --> 0:39:56.919
<v Speaker 4>by clinicians who are trying to fight against the band

0:39:56.960 --> 0:40:02.440
<v Speaker 4>and their testimony and you know, trying to claim make

0:40:02.480 --> 0:40:04.640
<v Speaker 4>these claims, but if we actually look at the details,

0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:08.320
<v Speaker 4>like the regulations they're proposing would make it nearly impossible

0:40:08.360 --> 0:40:12.239
<v Speaker 4>for anyone to transition, you know, both youth and adults.

0:40:12.760 --> 0:40:16.279
<v Speaker 4>And then you have like, you know, these different medical

0:40:16.400 --> 0:40:21.000
<v Speaker 4>professionals and kind of more liberal transphobic d trans people

0:40:21.120 --> 0:40:25.920
<v Speaker 4>who want more gatekeeping and regulation and control over trans

0:40:25.920 --> 0:40:29.960
<v Speaker 4>people and are kind of like using de transition and

0:40:30.040 --> 0:40:34.000
<v Speaker 4>transition regret as a justification for that or praising being

0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:38.040
<v Speaker 4>like oh well, Ohio, their youth clinics are already really

0:40:38.040 --> 0:40:41.920
<v Speaker 4>good because they're very cautious and they use therapy a

0:40:42.000 --> 0:40:45.200
<v Speaker 4>lot more than they actually allow youth to medically transition.

0:40:46.080 --> 0:40:49.440
<v Speaker 4>I mean, that argument didn't seem to work out at all. Instead,

0:40:49.480 --> 0:40:51.520
<v Speaker 4>it sounds like the governor kind of was like, oh,

0:40:51.880 --> 0:40:56.800
<v Speaker 4>two thirds of youth only get therapy instead of medical transition,

0:40:56.880 --> 0:41:01.160
<v Speaker 4>we should do that for everyone. Uh, It's like sort

0:41:01.160 --> 0:41:03.160
<v Speaker 4>of like you know, if you propose restrictions, say oh

0:41:03.239 --> 0:41:05.000
<v Speaker 4>this is great, then of course the people who are

0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:07.080
<v Speaker 4>more extreme will just like take that and run with it.

0:41:08.360 --> 0:41:11.640
<v Speaker 5>And then you know you have uh, you know, d trans.

0:41:11.360 --> 0:41:16.200
<v Speaker 4>Turfs showing up and testifying for their own weird reasons.

0:41:16.760 --> 0:41:20.000
<v Speaker 4>You know, probably because of their connections to carry Galahan,

0:41:20.200 --> 0:41:21.759
<v Speaker 4>but you know, this also is a chance for them

0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:24.399
<v Speaker 4>to sort of like you know, launder their image, make

0:41:24.400 --> 0:41:26.520
<v Speaker 4>it seem like, oh, look we're good, we're good d

0:41:26.600 --> 0:41:29.880
<v Speaker 4>trans people, we oppose the religious right, we're fighting against

0:41:29.960 --> 0:41:30.680
<v Speaker 4>these bands.

0:41:30.719 --> 0:41:32.680
<v Speaker 5>And then people who don't necessarily like know any.

0:41:32.480 --> 0:41:37.480
<v Speaker 4>Better will like come here maybe right right, because this

0:41:37.560 --> 0:41:40.000
<v Speaker 4>is like that's a strategy. They often pretend to be

0:41:40.680 --> 0:41:42.759
<v Speaker 4>more trans friendly than they really are to sort of

0:41:42.800 --> 0:41:45.960
<v Speaker 4>like draw people in or be able to like influence

0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:49.120
<v Speaker 4>queer and trans communities and slowly slip in like crypto

0:41:49.200 --> 0:41:52.239
<v Speaker 4>turf ideology and recruit people.

0:41:52.239 --> 0:41:56.600
<v Speaker 5>Or just yeah.

0:41:56.680 --> 0:41:59.400
<v Speaker 4>So, I mean it's like there's just a whole lot

0:41:59.480 --> 0:42:03.760
<v Speaker 4>of different and you know, anti trans groups and individuals

0:42:03.800 --> 0:42:09.000
<v Speaker 4>like stretching from like paternalistic medical professionals who want more gaykeeping,

0:42:09.120 --> 0:42:12.200
<v Speaker 4>who want to restrict the number of people transitioning like

0:42:12.280 --> 0:42:15.080
<v Speaker 4>all the way to you know, like Christian nationalists you

0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:17.040
<v Speaker 4>want to just you know, wipe us out completely.

0:42:17.360 --> 0:42:18.719
<v Speaker 5>And you know, not only.

0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:21.880
<v Speaker 4>Uh, you know, are basically at war with bodily autonomy

0:42:21.920 --> 0:42:22.279
<v Speaker 4>in general.

0:42:22.360 --> 0:42:23.759
<v Speaker 5>They don't want anyway. They want to be the ones

0:42:23.800 --> 0:42:25.280
<v Speaker 5>to control what people do with their bodies.

0:42:25.280 --> 0:42:28.439
<v Speaker 4>Like they also want to you know, restrict reproductive care

0:42:28.520 --> 0:42:29.040
<v Speaker 4>and abortion.

0:42:29.200 --> 0:42:31.279
<v Speaker 5>It's all part of the same war.

0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:35.760
<v Speaker 4>Uh, just control people and assort their version of authoritary

0:42:35.800 --> 0:42:40.160
<v Speaker 4>in Christianity. And then you have you know, uh, you know,

0:42:40.239 --> 0:42:42.400
<v Speaker 4>weird de trans turfs, and it's just like all you

0:42:42.480 --> 0:42:44.440
<v Speaker 4>kind of have to like understand like all these different

0:42:44.520 --> 0:42:46.840
<v Speaker 4>factions and how they sort of like interact together and

0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:50.320
<v Speaker 4>how you know they try to use each other, you know,

0:42:50.400 --> 0:42:52.200
<v Speaker 4>con see them overwhelming. But like the more we kind

0:42:52.239 --> 0:42:56.280
<v Speaker 4>of understand like what we're up against, like the easier

0:42:56.280 --> 0:42:59.640
<v Speaker 4>it is for us to develop strategies of resistance. And

0:42:59.719 --> 0:43:01.480
<v Speaker 4>it's like, you know, even though you know, it can

0:43:01.520 --> 0:43:03.200
<v Speaker 4>seem like we're up against a lot of different groups,

0:43:03.200 --> 0:43:05.680
<v Speaker 4>but like, you know, we're also part of this larger

0:43:05.800 --> 0:43:10.239
<v Speaker 4>fight for liberation, and you know, we can connect, you know,

0:43:10.480 --> 0:43:13.440
<v Speaker 4>with with feminists who are fighting for reproductive autonomy. We

0:43:13.480 --> 0:43:18.240
<v Speaker 4>can connect with like disability liberation activists who are fighting

0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:22.560
<v Speaker 4>for better healthcare for everyone. We do potentially have lots

0:43:22.560 --> 0:43:24.560
<v Speaker 4>of allies. We do have lots of connections like with

0:43:24.719 --> 0:43:29.000
<v Speaker 4>other movements, And so when you think of it that way,

0:43:29.040 --> 0:43:31.399
<v Speaker 4>it's like, Okay, we're not just like one small group

0:43:31.520 --> 0:43:34.319
<v Speaker 4>up against this whole like Goliath. Let's like, no, We're

0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:37.400
<v Speaker 4>part of this larger movement that is fighting so that

0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:39.560
<v Speaker 4>everyone is free and that everyone gets the health care

0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:40.080
<v Speaker 4>they deserve.

0:43:40.920 --> 0:43:42.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I mean, I think that one of the

0:43:42.640 --> 0:43:45.640
<v Speaker 2>one of the sort of tangential things here too is,

0:43:46.480 --> 0:43:50.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, this is an extremely negative example of the

0:43:50.520 --> 0:43:53.480
<v Speaker 2>amount of influence that a very very small number of

0:43:53.480 --> 0:43:59.040
<v Speaker 2>people can wield who have extremely unpopular ideologies. On the

0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:00.920
<v Speaker 2>other hand, there are a lot of us, and the

0:44:00.920 --> 0:44:03.799
<v Speaker 2>things that we believe are very popular, and you know,

0:44:04.360 --> 0:44:07.160
<v Speaker 2>the amount of power that we can wield if we

0:44:07.200 --> 0:44:10.279
<v Speaker 2>are willing to organize and are when we understand what

0:44:10.280 --> 0:44:12.600
<v Speaker 2>we're organizing against is immense, and it is enough to

0:44:12.640 --> 0:44:14.280
<v Speaker 2>drive these people into the fucking ground.

0:44:16.400 --> 0:44:26.480
<v Speaker 6>Hell yeah, yeah, it could happen here as a production

0:44:26.520 --> 0:44:27.520
<v Speaker 6>of cool Zone Media.

0:44:27.719 --> 0:44:30.400
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

0:44:30.440 --> 0:44:32.680
<v Speaker 1>cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

0:44:32.719 --> 0:44:36.160
<v Speaker 1>iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts,

0:44:36.520 --> 0:44:38.640
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0:44:38.719 --> 0:44:42.760
<v Speaker 1>monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.