1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Al Zone Media. 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 2: Welcome to Dick It Happened Here, a podcast that is 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 2: in no small part about the increasing and escalating series 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 2: of anti trans laws being passed around the country. It's 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 2: another one of those episodes. Things are getting worse, things 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 2: are also getting weird. And with me to talk about 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 2: worse and weird is Kay and Lee from Health Liberation 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 2: Now welcome to the show. 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 10 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 2: I'm excited to talk to you both because, Okay, very 11 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: very odd stuff has been happening. So the main reason 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: I wanted to have yout you on is to talk 13 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 2: about the stuff that's been happening in Ohio. So for 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: people who are unaware, Ohio's legislature has been trying to 15 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: pass a very draconian ban on all gender firm macare 16 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,959 Speaker 2: for minors. The States Republican governor vetoed the bill and 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 2: this was for about one day. There was a lot 18 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 2: of sort of like liberal cheering about like ah, compassionate Republicans, 19 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 2: blah blah, blah blah. And then immediately after that, like 20 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: like like the next day, when all of all of 21 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 2: us we haven't even like we hadn't even really gotten 22 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: into the weight hold on He's going to do something else. Uh. 23 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 2: The thing that Dwine did is is, you know, and 24 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 2: this is this is being framed as like an attempt 25 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: to stave off the veto, which hasn't worked so far, 26 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 2: but he immediately implemented a bunch of rules that say 27 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 2: that in order to get gender firming care, and this 28 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 2: is true of both miners and adults, which makes it 29 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: in a lot of ways more draconian than the actual bill. 30 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 2: It's quote unquote supposed to be preventing like getting passed. 31 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: If you want to get gender refirming care, you need 32 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: recommendations from a psychiatrist, an endocrinologist, and a bioethicist. And 33 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: also all gender firmingcare in the state has to be 34 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 2: reported to the government there and there's like other stuff too. 35 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: So this is the technical term for this is this 36 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 2: is extremely bad. 37 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean he also signed an executive 38 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 4: order just banning surgery for everyone under eighteen too. Yeah, 39 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 4: so yeah, yeah, I mean also I think I believe 40 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 4: it was like everyone under twenty one also had to 41 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 4: go through six months of counseling as well. 42 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, at least six months of counseling. Yeah, there's 43 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 3: no upper. 44 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 5: Cap mm hmm. 45 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 4: And like a lot of this was the wine and 46 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 4: his spokespeople have ended up like justifying a lot of this, 47 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:46,399 Speaker 4: like trying to use language from clinicians working at clinics 48 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 4: in Ohio that see trans youth and be like, well, 49 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 4: you know, they're taking this comprehensive, multidisciplinary approach, and most 50 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 4: of the people they see like get counseling instead of 51 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 4: medical transitions. So they're actually like using a lot of 52 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 4: the testimony against the band to try to justify these 53 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 4: rules and regulations. And I don't think they're acting in 54 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 4: good faith because when you actually like look at the details, 55 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 4: are like, well, this would basically make it almost impossible 56 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 4: for anyone at any age to transition. But it's like, 57 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 4: you know, it's a very sneaky smart move, right, like 58 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 4: being like, oh, look, we're trying to find a compromise. 59 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 4: We're trying to make sure everyone gets good healthcare, and 60 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 4: you know, unfortunately sometimes liberals and liberal media I'll just 61 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 4: kind of eat that up without really looking at the details. 62 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, And one of the things that's happening here too 63 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 2: is that so the US, where in places where there's 64 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: pretty good access to gender affirming healthcare, it works off 65 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: of something called informed consent and informed consent is like, okay, 66 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 2: so you go there, they tell you what is going 67 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 2: to happen, and you talk you talk to like a 68 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: nurse or a doctor, and then once you know the 69 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 2: life like what you're actually getting into, you say yes 70 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: or no if you want to do something right, and 71 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: you know, this is a this is a pretty good system. 72 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 2: It still can be really annoying to navigate because of 73 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 2: insurance stuff, and you know, like there's definitely problems with it, 74 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: but it's a it's a much better system that exists 75 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: in a lot of places. And you know, I think 76 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 2: there have been two sets of comparisons about what these 77 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 2: restrictions look like. And we're going to get to the 78 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: comparisons to uh TARP restrictions on abortion in a second, 79 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: but I want to talk about another thing that these 80 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 2: restrictions strike me as very similar to, which is the 81 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 2: British system. And the way the British system works is 82 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: you get put on a wait list and then you die, 83 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: or you go to our media like those are those 84 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: are your options? 85 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 3: Right? 86 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 2: Or or you're really wealthy and you can you can 87 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 2: bypass the public healthcare system and go to the private 88 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 2: healthcare system. But you know, like I hope, like I 89 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 2: hope you are like the air to mansion before you 90 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 2: start that process, or you're in serious trouble. The thing 91 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,799 Speaker 2: about the British system is there's all of these paths 92 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: of interlocking experts you have to go through in every 93 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 2: single you have to get signatures from every single one 94 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: of them. And what this means is you have this 95 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 2: enormous sort of interminable British gender bureaucracy whose only job 96 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: and only the only thing they want to do is 97 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: stop you from getting healthcare. There's a very very good 98 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 2: Philosophy Tube episode about this about what it's actually like 99 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: to be in that system, and it's terrible. And this 100 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: is a this is what the kinds of things that 101 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 2: are being proposed to here are. In a lot of it's 102 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 2: not exactly the same as a British system, but it's 103 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 2: it's bringing it much closer to that system where it's 104 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 2: basically impossible to get healthcare. And the thing about the 105 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: British system and about these restrictions where you know, you 106 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 2: have to have like a bioethicistant, a psychiatrist and endocrinologist, 107 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: and you have to like do all you have to 108 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,119 Speaker 2: jump through all of these troops is that at every 109 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: single point in the process, there is another gender bureaucrat 110 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: who can just buy themself self decide that they're just 111 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 2: doing a trans healthcare band. And you know, every every 112 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 2: individual person you put into the process is another person 113 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 2: who could just say no. And that's what the bridge 114 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 2: system works, is that someone in the process just says 115 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 2: no and you die in a wait list. 116 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 5: Yeah. 117 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 4: I mean, we know trans people in Britain and in 118 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 4: other European countries where they have like a lot of gatekeeping, 119 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 4: and you know, all of them have warned us like 120 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 4: you do not want this coming to the US. Yeah, 121 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 4: you know, reminding us like all the time, like how 122 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 4: much easier are a lot of us trans people have 123 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 4: it in terms of accessing healthcare? 124 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 5: And just like, yeah, I mean everything I've heard about. 125 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 4: Like the UK healthcare system sounds like nightmarish. People asking 126 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 4: invasive questions about like your sexuality or your trauma history 127 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 4: or for youth that often ends up like involving like 128 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 4: genital inspections. For some reason, it just sounds like a horrible, dehumanizing, 129 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 4: violating experience. 130 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 5: And then yeah, and like a lot of people like. 131 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 4: Spend years and years if they you know, and are 132 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 4: lucky if they do it, are able to access care. 133 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 5: A lot of people have to go private if they 134 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 5: can afford to. 135 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 3: Honestly, before, I mean technically it was during but before 136 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 3: the full like onslaught of bills started to hit the US, 137 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 3: Like there were Brits that were trying to sound the 138 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 3: alarm and get the message out to US base. 139 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, like it was around when the Currabell ruling happened. 140 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 4: Crabell was a d trans woman who's lawyer was affiliated 141 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 4: with the ADF, with the British branch of Alliance Defending Freedom, 142 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 4: which is behind a lot of the it's like an 143 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 4: international Christian nationalist organization that's behind a lot of the 144 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 4: healthcare bands in the US as well. 145 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 5: Also the abortion birth control. 146 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, really nasty people. But anyway, so like Currabell, this 147 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 4: this t trans woman. 148 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 5: It's like she. 149 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 4: Sued the NHS for allowing her to transition and originally 150 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 4: like won her case and that led to basically like 151 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 4: the end of positioning for you. 152 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, she submitted a judicial review. 153 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 3: The initial review was favorable to her, but upon further review, 154 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 3: the appeals did end up overturning it. But by that 155 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 3: point the damage had already been done. Yeah, a bunch 156 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 3: of people were starting to lose access to to care 157 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 3: and the likes and the wheels were starting to spin 158 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 3: internally as well in terms of the Tavistock system and 159 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 3: so like. As a result, like the wait lists just 160 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: ended up getting longer and longer and longer. 161 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 4: So that was like a huge blow that happened in 162 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 4: the UK, and like UK trails people like basically like 163 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 4: by that point starting trying to warn people in the US, 164 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 4: like this is going to come for you too, Yeah, 165 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 4: like get ready, like they had already been already been 166 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 4: like suffering under this like no anti transplits for a while, 167 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 4: and they like knew it was going to spread on 168 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 4: the board of the UK, And unfortunately it has. 169 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, in like the very early stages of our project, 170 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 3: when we launched at the beginning of twenty twenty one, 171 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 3: almost immediately after the Carabell initial ruling, we hosted a 172 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 3: transcript of a podcast from Blood and Turf that was 173 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 3: trying to deliver this message over to US based comrades. 174 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 3: And unfortunately it does not appear to have reached as 175 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 3: many people as it really needed to. But we do 176 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 3: have that available in the event that people can still 177 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 3: learn from it, because this onslot is not going to stop. 178 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not. 179 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think one of the things that we're 180 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: seeing now is that we're now seeing kind of an 181 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 2: opening of new fronts in a way where you have, 182 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 2: in the same state at the same time you have 183 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 2: both what I guess I would call the American style 184 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 2: approach of just straight up bands and then this kind 185 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 2: of an attempt to implement this sort of British like, 186 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: you know, attempt to implement this sort of like British 187 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 2: endow bureaucracy system. And one of the things that's been 188 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 2: happening with this is, you know, okay, so there's a 189 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 2: lot of places where there's inspirations coming for this, and 190 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 2: I think, you know, we mentioned it briefly earlier. One 191 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 2: of the inspirations for this is obviously parp restrictions on abortion, 192 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: where you have these like unbelievably restricted like basically these 193 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 2: targeted things. When before before Roe v. Wade collapsed, there 194 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 2: was you know, you could you could ban abortions by 195 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 2: for example, you know, saying like passing a bill that 196 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 2: says that like, okay, if you want to do abortions 197 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 2: in a hospital, the walls in the hallways have to 198 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: be like exactly like this diameter, which is not the 199 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: same diameter as like as as normal hospital walls are. 200 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 2: So now you can't do abortions in hospitals, and so 201 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: they do things like this, right, and this is you know, 202 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 2: this has been a huge problem for a long time 203 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 2: answer anti abortion activists. I've been talking about it for ages. 204 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 2: The Democrat Party did nothing, So you know, that's I think, 205 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 2: I think it's sort of like forwarding of where this 206 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 2: is going. 207 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, a direct parallel is actually over in Arizona, if 208 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 3: I remember correctly, because one of the things that they 209 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 3: ended up doing down in Arizona is a requirement that 210 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 3: they tried to implement was this rather controversial piece where 211 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 3: they also had to provide information on abortion reversals using 212 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 3: certain types of hormone care. Right, similar to how in 213 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 3: order for people to be able to provide gender affirming 214 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 3: care they have to provide information about detransition and stuff 215 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 3: like that. But when you actually start to look at 216 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 3: some of the data, not all of it, it's some 217 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 3: of the data that they are relying on to inform 218 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 3: people of this. It is a wildly biased sample or 219 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 3: just downright pseudoscience, right, Like, they looked at the evidence 220 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 3: base for the abortion reversals and it didn't actually work 221 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 3: the way that they were saying it was, and it 222 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 3: was actually coming from very very very explicitly motivated groups. 223 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 5: Right. 224 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 3: So, Yeah, like abortion has been difficult to access in 225 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 3: Arizona for a very long time in part because of 226 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 3: some of these like obnoxious requirements that people end up 227 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 3: putting into place through trap laws. 228 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I think it's it's worth noting that, like, 229 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 2: and this is true of both the anti trans bands 230 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 2: and the and anti abortioning legislation, is that, like it's 231 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 2: the science, they're just making it up a lot of 232 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 2: the time. Like, you know, one of the like one 233 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: of the very famous things there is these like fetal 234 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 2: heartbeat bills that required like and the thing about like 235 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 2: fetal heartbeat bills is that fetuses don't have heartbeats. You're 236 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 2: not hearing a heartbeat. Like doctors will like force you 237 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 2: to listen to this. It's like that it's not what's happening. 238 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 2: It's literally not a heartbeat. But these people, like they 239 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 2: put a stethoscope to a woman's chest and heard a 240 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 2: beating and we're like, oh shit, it's the baby's heart. 241 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: And it's like, no, it doesn't have a heart, Like wait, 242 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 2: this is a fetus, Like what are you even talking about. 243 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 2: But you know, and this kind of stuff, right is 244 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 2: you know, they're they're they're they're basically they're they're doing 245 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 2: just scientific malpractice, right, They're straight up lying to people, 246 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: and then they're using that as a justification for you know, 247 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 2: actual legislation which has sort of material impact and like 248 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 2: you know, carries the force of the law behind it, 249 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And we've been seeing 250 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 2: a lot of very similar kinds of things from from 251 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 2: these anti trans legislation. And one of one of the 252 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 2: ways that they've been able to use sort of pseudoscience 253 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 2: to get restrictions on healthcare past and this is this 254 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 2: is true both of sort of the straight up bands 255 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 2: and also of these kind of like massive bureaucratic restrictions 256 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 2: is by allying with groups of sort of of right 257 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 2: wing detransitioners. And we're going to talk about that more 258 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: after this ad break, because we unfortunately are reliant on 259 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 2: ads to cover this stuff. So yeah, here's here's ads. Okay, 260 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 2: we are back, and this is the point where we 261 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 2: need to talk about the stuff in the Ohio story 262 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 2: that is very weird. Now. I think if people have 263 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 2: been following the story of sort of anti trans bills, 264 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 2: one of the things that's been happening a lot is 265 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 2: there's been this sort of there's there's a network of 266 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 2: people who de transition and for various reasons I don't know, 267 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 2: who have become very very hardline right wingers who have 268 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 2: basically been doing like circuits of the capitals of you know, 269 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 2: like state capitals and like going to Capitol Hill and 270 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 2: like telling their quote unquote stories to try to get 271 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 2: this to try to get like all trans healthcare bands. Now, 272 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: so this is you know, this is something we've covered 273 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 2: on the show in the past. What is very weird 274 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 2: about Ohio is that you had a group of these 275 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: right wing transitioners who specifically we're trying to get it 276 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: looked like at very at least we're trying to get 277 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 2: we're trying to stop the like the actual uh like 278 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 2: gender firming care ban from going through, and we're in 279 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 2: favor of more of this restriction stuff. Is that is 280 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 2: that is that what am I getting this right? 281 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 5: Not not exactly. There's a couple of. 282 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 2: No, okay, Le, sorry, I'm I. 283 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 3: I can provide my my brief description here real quick, 284 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 3: and then you can retake aspects of that stuff. Because 285 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 3: something to bear in mind is the fact that, like 286 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 3: some of the opposition in the Ohio testimonies are actually 287 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 3: coming from people who view themselves as very left wing. 288 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 3: These are radical feminists. Specifically, they are just hardcore opposing I. 289 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 4: Mean, I would say they're they're actual politics are for 290 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 4: a reactionary. 291 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 2: Even Yeah, they call. 292 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 5: Themselves left wing. 293 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 4: They see themselves as being opposed to the right, like 294 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 4: that's how they present themselves, and they definitely believe that 295 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 4: their anti right wing. 296 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 3: But there's there's also another component. This one is like 297 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 3: the nuances are sometimes almost impossible to be able to 298 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 3: tease out. 299 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 5: I swear tomato tomato. 300 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 3: But one of the people who was a proponent for 301 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 3: both this current bill and a past bill is actually 302 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 3: Corina Cone, who does not consider herself to be right wing. 303 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 3: Though she does here to be working with a number 304 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 3: of right wing people, she considers herself to be quote 305 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 3: unquote libertarian. Now, this is a red flag for those 306 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 3: of us who have done any sort of like real 307 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 3: engagement with certain types of libertarians or political organizing or 308 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 3: whatever in that if you actually pay attention to some 309 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 3: of the arguments that are being made or the collaborations 310 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 3: that are being made, you can generally tell which direction 311 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 3: their politics are truly leaning towards right? 312 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 5: Is it left wing? Is it right wing? 313 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 3: And hers have been steering far and far more right wing. 314 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 3: Like she uses the excuse of, you know, I want 315 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 3: small government and stuff like that, but if you're working 316 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 3: with like legislators to put in full on bands, I'm sorry, honey, 317 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 3: that's not small government. 318 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:54,719 Speaker 5: That's not small government. 319 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 3: That is the opposite of small government actually, and so like, like, 320 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 3: it's kind of hard to sort of like encapsulate the 321 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 3: entirety of like the proponents of the opposition into particular 322 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 3: political alignments because a lot of it is really based 323 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 3: off of, like what are their motivations and who are 324 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 3: they willing to work with? 325 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 5: Which again, tomato, tomato. 326 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 3: But I'll have to come back to the Corona Cone 327 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 3: one at some point here too, because that one is 328 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 3: actually an important timeline in terms of understanding the Ohio bills. 329 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 4: Mm hmm, yeah, I mean basically, I mean you have 330 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 4: like these. You do have like right wing beat transition 331 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 4: people like Chloe Cole or Christian Boseley, Laura Becker who 332 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 4: like do you know they they'll be hanging out with 333 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 4: like the Heritage Foundation or Billboard Chris or the Cue Shop, yeah, 334 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,719 Speaker 4: or Our Duty like and they very much are just 335 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 4: working to try to pass these full on bands. But 336 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 4: then yeah, you have also these like d trans Turf 337 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 4: and they're more liberal fellow travelers who definitely see themselves 338 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 4: as being opposed to the right and are opposed to 339 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 4: I mean they they're opposed to the right because they 340 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 4: see right being Christians as being a threat to them 341 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 4: as well, and are at least smart enough to understand 342 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 4: that if you know, right being Christians have their way, 343 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 4: they're going to suffer too. But they also want to 344 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 4: end trans healthcare or restrict it. 345 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 5: I mean some of the. 346 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 4: Two of the people who helped organize, helped collect the 347 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 4: testimony the group statement that was submitted under the name 348 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 4: are you asking why Max and Katie Robinson they have 349 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 4: ties to Janice Raymond? 350 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 5: That's serious, Yeah, they do. 351 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 4: Janis Raymond help publish Max Robinson's book over Ats Spinefects 352 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 4: Press this Swurf and Turf publisher. So yeah, they they're 353 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 4: not actually approach Frans. 354 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 2: Like, yeah, well we should, we should mention. So Janis 355 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 2: Raymond for people who some we we've talked about on 356 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,239 Speaker 2: the show a few times, but Shann's Raymond wrote a 357 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 2: book called The Transsexual Empire, and okay, so people normally 358 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 2: leave off the subtitle of it, which is called It's 359 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 2: the Transsexual Empire. The Making of the She Mail. It's 360 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 2: like one of the original like original anti trans people, 361 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 2: like incredibly violent transfo like like both both in terms 362 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 2: of like the career of her work, like physically like 363 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 2: violently anti trans and yeah, yeah, she is. She is 364 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 2: connected to a lot of the modern anti trans groups 365 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: and also the modern like the modern I don't know 366 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: what you'd call them, people who are attempting to take 367 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 2: away trans healthcare but who don't see themselves as anti trans. 368 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 5: I have no idea how to even summarize that. 369 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, bad, I don't know. 370 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 4: I kind of yes, yeah, yeah, so like I mean yeah, 371 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,479 Speaker 4: and I mean yeah, Max and kid fully endorse, uh, 372 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 4: Janice Raymond's theories. 373 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 5: I mean Janice Raymond. 374 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 4: One of the things she's famous for is saying that like, 375 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 4: like transsexualism should be morally mandate out of existence, like 376 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 4: Max Robinson has said that she supports that. They also 377 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 4: both I mean Janice Raymond focused heavily on trans women overall, 378 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 4: and you know, also claim that basically like trans women 379 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 4: were you know, committing sexual assaults against women just for existing. Yeah, 380 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 4: Max and Kitty are also horrible transpasogynists to actually make 381 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 4: I mean, Kitty makes a lot of propaganda tracking attacking 382 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 4: transomen and trying to cast all trans women as predators. 383 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 4: And yeah, just not people you want on your side, 384 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 4: because they're not. 385 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 5: They're danger to all trans people. 386 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 4: They're just like trying to find a way to influence 387 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 4: trans healthcare in. 388 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 5: A different way. And I mean, I I'm. 389 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,719 Speaker 4: Concerned that people will hear like, oh, look at all 390 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 4: these ds, like these supposedly trans friendly, these trans people 391 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 4: who testified against this ban, now realizing that these are 392 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 4: actually like person with an agenda who I mean part 393 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 4: of them. Part of what they want to do is 394 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 4: to infiltrate like queer entry on subcultures and promo like 395 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 4: profideology and recruit people. 396 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 3: Like let's put it this way, So Max Robinson in 397 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 3: terms of some of her beliefs, refers to medical transition 398 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 3: for like trans masculine folks as a sato ritual, going 399 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 3: back to Mary daily types of. 400 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 5: Descriptions of things. 401 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 3: And then Kitty was one of the people that was 402 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 3: interviewed for and gave extensive background information for a BBC 403 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 3: article that was released. I believe it was called something 404 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 3: along the lines of we are being pressured into sex 405 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 3: by some trans women, which is basically good, yes, that 406 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 3: one right, like so yea even into this narrative that 407 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 3: trans women are sexual predators right into the British media 408 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,479 Speaker 3: when they were already having a massive influx of anti 409 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 3: trans media that was again feeding into the demonization of 410 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 3: trans people as a whole, but then also like controlling 411 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 3: trans youth and the likes and of course this article 412 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 3: not only did it end up originally platforming like an 413 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 3: actual like serial. 414 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 2: Rape yeah, Lily kaid like someone someone a serial rapist 415 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 2: so prolific that like, within like maybe thirty minutes of 416 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:29,239 Speaker 2: this article going up, like multiple like probably like a 417 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 2: dozen people had come forward and been like she raped 418 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 2: me like that. That is the person that the BBC 419 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 2: was like coming forward to do this shit with. 420 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, she ended up posting basically a manifesto on her 421 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 3: website that was even more extreme than aspects of the 422 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 3: article showed off. And then I will also note that 423 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 3: this article was originally I believe it was only translated 424 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 3: into Portuguese in order to be oh yeah, moved into 425 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 3: BBC Zila Yeah yeah, which is also one of the 426 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 3: countries has one of the highest rates of trans femicide. 427 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 3: So like, yeah, these these are the people that decided 428 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 3: to go ahead and testify. 429 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, well, I'm those of personally bring up Max 430 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 4: and Kitty because like they were some of the people 431 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 4: who helped like get the testimonies, Like I found a 432 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 4: post on Kitty's tumblr blog looking for d trans and 433 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 4: desisted women who were willing to testify against a ban. 434 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 4: And then Max was the one who actually submitted the 435 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 4: collective statement from Arius king Wise, he also submitted an 436 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 4: individual statement to So basically like they found a bunch 437 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 4: of like detrans and desisted turfs on Tumblr to sign 438 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 4: a statement and then submit to like the state of Ohio, 439 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 4: which is kind of wild to think about. 440 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't normally expect to see testimony from turf tumblr, 441 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 3: let alone transfer Tumblr. 442 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 5: But that is like that happened? Yeah? Really who you 443 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 5: want to show up for you? 444 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 2: Yeah? Really not good in terms of who you want 445 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 2: doing your. 446 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 5: Legislation, Like oh god, yeah yeah. 447 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 2: So okay, we need to take another ad break and 448 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 2: then we will come back and talk more about this. 449 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 2: So enjoy your brief capitalistic respite from the horror of capitalism. 450 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 2: We are back. 451 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 3: In order to properly understand the situation in Ohio, you 452 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 3: kind of have to go back several years, right. One 453 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 3: of the bills that ended up being proposed in twenty 454 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 3: twenty was HB five to one three. This was another 455 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 3: version of a proposed ban on gender firming care for 456 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 3: trans youth in particular, and it was sponsored by Representatives 457 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 3: Ron Hood and Bill Dean. This one is interesting because 458 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 3: one of the group that ended up coming out in 459 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 3: opposition to it was the Gendercare Consumer Advocacy Network. This 460 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 3: is the organization that I helped found in twenty nineteen 461 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 3: prior to my resignation. They submitted this opposition after my resignation, 462 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 3: but it is available on archives. Then, in twenty twenty 463 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 3: one and the twenty twenty two legislative session, there was 464 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 3: the proposal for HP four or five four, which was 465 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 3: another proposed ban on gender for main care for trans youth. 466 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 3: This time it was being sponsored by Representative Gary Klick, 467 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 3: who was also the sponsor of the current bill that 468 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 3: had recently been vetoed and then the V two vtwed 469 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,239 Speaker 3: And in May of twenty twenty two, the Gender Care 470 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 3: Consumer Advocacy Network or GCCAM testified in tentative support. The 471 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 3: testimony was submitted by coronicone and included suggestions for amendments. 472 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 3: These amendments are actually very important. One of the amendments 473 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 3: that she recommended was on data tracking. I believe it 474 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,959 Speaker 3: says here The second amendment would be a requirement for physicians, 475 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 3: mental health care providers, and other medical healthcare professionals mandating 476 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,479 Speaker 3: an annual report to the Ohio Department of Health the number, age, 477 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 3: and sex of minor patients who are receiving gender transition 478 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 3: services of any type. This was what she originally proposed 479 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 3: as an amendment to the bill. The bill again did 480 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 3: not end up passing, but now we are seeing HB 481 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 3: sixty eight, which is the one that merges the ban 482 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 3: on gender forming care for trans youth and a sports ban. 483 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 3: Because I guess you know, trans youth plane chess is 484 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 3: somehow like threatening. But so this one was again represented 485 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 3: like sponsored by reps preentive Click, and this time, curiously enough, 486 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 3: Karina had been working more extensively with Click during various 487 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 3: portions of the. 488 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 5: Of the push for the bill. 489 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 3: Right, you know, she testified multiple times she's posted videos 490 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 3: with him, pictures, et cetera. Another person who had originally 491 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 3: founded the organization, Carrie Callahan, did originally start opposing. Curiously 492 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 3: she did not note her prior experience with the organization, 493 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 3: but she did start to oppose the bill, and then 494 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 3: later starts to put out basically like a more general 495 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 3: call for opposition to HB sixty eight, right, you know, 496 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 3: trying to collect in you know, various types of detransitioned 497 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 3: people who were opposed to bands on gender affirming care right, 498 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 3: and then who is it that ends up showing up? 499 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 3: It's this weird little like Turf group that originally came 500 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 3: out of d Trans Turf Tumbler in twenty thirteen, that 501 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 3: historically speaking, she had prior working relationships with and even 502 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 3: presented their stories to us path. 503 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, and also I mean Max Robinson too, like both 504 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 4: her both Max Robinson and Carrie Callahan were both featured 505 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 4: in Jesse Single's Atlantic article too. There's lots of points 506 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 4: of connection. They've been they've known each other since at 507 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 4: least twenty sixteen, and you know, work together. 508 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 3: Like I can't say for certain how it is that 509 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 3: they ended up there. Personally, to me, it seems a 510 00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 3: little weird that people who had prior relationships dating back 511 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 3: a decade are showing up in the same place again, 512 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 3: And like they are also showing up in legislative testimony 513 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 3: for the first time in the state where some like 514 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 3: one of the central figures for a long time there 515 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 3: is putting out a call to oppose this particular bill. 516 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 3: Like the coincidences are racking up a little bit here. 517 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 3: It might be good to ask some further questions about 518 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,959 Speaker 3: what exactly happened, because I have some questions. So, you know, 519 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 3: this happened in December of twenty twenty three. Right. Eventually 520 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 3: Governor Dwine goes ahead and vetos. But at the same 521 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 3: time he makes his you know, proposal for the drafting 522 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 3: of new regulations with you know, the Department of Health 523 00:30:55,040 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 3: and the likes, and within that is the suggestion of 524 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 3: detailed data tracking. That is reported to the Department of 525 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 3: Health and then to the general public every six months, 526 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:15,959 Speaker 3: focusing on things like, you know, I don't think that 527 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 3: he wanted to focus on like the number of people 528 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 3: that were doing it, but he did include a like 529 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 3: the nature of the diagnosis. It applies to all ages. 530 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 3: It was not originally restricted to trans youth, like the 531 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 3: original testimony was from from gc CAN. The time range 532 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 3: was also ended up being like it's shortened. He wants 533 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 3: it every six months, not every year. But you know, 534 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 3: very similar kinds of things, right in terms of what 535 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 3: it is that he is proposing for this mass collection 536 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 3: of data and a previous testimony that was submitted to 537 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 3: the Ohio Legislature. In fact, like not long after that fact, 538 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 3: Representative Clique ended up going on an interview with Tony 539 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 3: Perkins of Family Research Council talking about the pending veto. 540 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 3: They originally did this interview on January ninth, and he 541 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 3: noted that the data collection suggestion was originally included in 542 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 3: a draft version of his bill, but was removed due 543 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 3: to opposition, and so he's glad actually that that was included, 544 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 3: although he wished that there would be even more restrictions. 545 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 3: He actually was going to encourage the governor to also 546 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 3: sign an executive order banning the use of puberty blockers, 547 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 3: not just surgery. As far as I can tell, that 548 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 3: has not happened, but he did say that he was 549 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 3: going to try. But like it's like there's there's definitely 550 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 3: some weird kind of like escalations that end up happening, 551 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 3: and some of the like some of the interconnecting threads 552 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,479 Speaker 3: with individuals that again just happened to keep showing up 553 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 3: in the same place over and over and over again, 554 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 3: either in support or in opposition. Some folks have been 555 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 3: consistently opposed, whereas other people have been kind of flip flopping. 556 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 3: The GCCN organization is one of the ones that flip flopped. 557 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 3: It originally opposed all bands, and then now all of 558 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 3: a sudden, it's like, you know, the person that they 559 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 3: are throwing out into these testimonies was arguing in favor 560 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 3: of them, and then like, you know, the the quote 561 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 3: unquote are you asking why? Collective and to be fair, 562 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 3: Carrie Callahan have also been firmly opposed to full on 563 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 3: bands and the Christian right pretty much from the beginning, 564 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 3: though for very very very different reasons. 565 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 4: I mean some other opposition was like, well, people will 566 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 4: go to like could go to other states where there's 567 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 4: less restrictions, Like no, the stuff we have, you know, 568 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 4: HIAS already like has a lot of restrictions, and majority 569 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 4: of trans youth like only get counseling and they don't 570 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 4: get any like none of them get surgery, and most 571 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 4: of them, like only a very small number of them 572 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 4: get puberty blockers or horrormones. So this should be like 573 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 4: this should be an example for the entire country. Like 574 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 4: that was kind of Carrie Gallahan's take on things. And 575 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 4: then like I mean, yeah, a lot of the more 576 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 4: like the d trans turfs, like the Robinson's or other 577 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 4: members of our vesting wives. It's like, okay, well they're 578 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 4: opposed to the Christian Right, and they recognize that like 579 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 4: if the Christian Right gains more power and is banning things, 580 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 4: that's bad not just for trans people but also for 581 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 4: you know, cis, lesbian and gay people and says women 582 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 4: and you know it will end up hurting them too. 583 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 4: So I mean, even from a self preservation stance, they 584 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,439 Speaker 4: understand like why they should be opposed to the Christian Right, 585 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 4: but they're still if you actually read their testimony. A 586 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 4: lot of them do make it clear that they're posed 587 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 4: to transition. Like one one person called it like compared 588 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 4: medical like trans healthcare to like a hydra said that 589 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 4: like it would only be cutting off ahead. 590 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 5: Like these aren't. 591 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, and so a lot of them were, you know, 592 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 4: we're also kind of praising uh, you know regulations like 593 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 4: the group uh statement talks about like it's like, you know, 594 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 4: shutting down clinics when improve anyone's quality of care. Ohio's 595 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 4: existing programs are known for their moderation. 596 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 6: Uh. 597 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 4: They don't perform surgery on minors. Many clinics out of 598 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 4: state do. Lata YadA. 599 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 3: So Max Robinson's testimony also said similar, but that she 600 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 3: had it on good word from an Ohio in right, 601 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 3: I have yes, you had. 602 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 4: Say I hear if I'm good authority from an Ohio 603 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 4: in that pediactric gender clinics there prescribed hormones pretty sparingly 604 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 4: and don't actually perform any underage transition surgeries. Other states do, though, 605 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,359 Speaker 4: So there's like this whole thing. It's like like they're 606 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 4: still kind of scaremonger. 607 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 5: It's like, oh, but these other. 608 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 4: States, like we're transition as a minor those are bad, 609 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 4: but they're still making it clear that the idea that 610 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 4: people having easy access to transition, especially as youth, is like. 611 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 5: A bad thing in their minds. 612 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,399 Speaker 4: I don't think we actually mentioned like how like if 613 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 4: you actually look at the collective statement, that are you 614 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 4: asking why issued and like who signed it? Like a 615 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 4: whole bunch of them didn't actually transition, Like a lot 616 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 4: of them are actually desisted, which means that they like 617 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 4: never actually medically transitioned. They considered transitioning or maybe socially transitioned, 618 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 4: but then they decided not to medically transition, possibly after 619 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 4: you know, converting to anti transfeminism or the like. So 620 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 4: it's just a bunch of people who like I decided 621 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,800 Speaker 4: not to transition. I'm desisted, like you know, testifying against 622 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 4: a healthcare ban. It's also like a kind of a 623 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 4: classic strategy too. It is like they have a bunch 624 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 4: of like desisted people along mixed in with people who actually, 625 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 4: so you like, transition and do transition to kind of 626 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 4: like inflate the numbers. Yeah, this is a standard. Yeah, this 627 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 4: is very standard. It's an old trick. It's it's like 628 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 4: oh yeah, you're like okay, yeah, and then a bunch 629 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 4: of them are also like saying the ones who did 630 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 4: like you know, transition and new transition, they're like emphasizing 631 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 4: how they a few of them like are emphasizing how young. 632 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 5: They were when they transitioned and be transitioned. Again, not exactly, yeah, 633 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 5: not exactly. 634 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 3: Protrums this collective here with like pretty pretty explicit turf ties, 635 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 3: including some of them directly to Trannis. Rammond herself was 636 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 3: the bulk of the opposition de transitioned people to the bill. 637 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 3: I should note, like that's fifteen signatures right there. People 638 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 3: are talking about like how there were nineteen people that 639 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:52,919 Speaker 3: were opposed, so fifteen of them were either like part 640 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 3: of the recruitment or actively recruited on d trans turf tumpler. 641 00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, and then like at least five of them are 642 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 4: just assisted they're transitions. It's not clear about everyone, but yeah, yeah, it's. 643 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 5: It's weird. 644 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: It's just. 645 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 3: It's really weird. And it's also been really weird to 646 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 3: see the media just kind of take that. 647 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 4: Testimony of theirs at face value that it's been a 648 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 4: problem for a long time. It is like getting the 649 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 4: media to actually sort of like investigate or care about 650 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,239 Speaker 4: people's like political views or activism or actually kind of 651 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 4: being like like sometimes like I think, like I say, 652 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 4: like the Basilon New York Times story we were talking 653 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 4: about before, has Grace Liton Ski Smith and there without 654 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 4: saying that she was you know, affiliated with J. C. 655 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 5: Kan and she's like not just with the president, she 656 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 5: was the president. Yeah. Yeah, so it's like. 657 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 4: It's like, Okay, she's just like represented as just like 658 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 4: you know, as a deutrons woman without going into like 659 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 4: actually she's the head of this political organization, and that's 660 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 4: just this has happened. 661 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 5: This has been a problem for years. 662 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 663 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's just like, I mean, just a whole 664 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 4: lot of different sketchy characters kind of came out for 665 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 4: what's going. 666 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 5: On in Ohio. I mean, you have like. 667 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 4: You know, Republicans and right wing Christians who just want 668 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 4: to straight up ban transition and move towards eliminating it 669 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 4: for for all trans people and workers, making it, you know, 670 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 4: as impossible for trans people to live in society as 671 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 4: they can. And then you have kind of more like 672 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 4: tricky Republicans like de Wine sort of like pretending to 673 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 4: find some kind of compromise and be like oh, we're 674 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 4: just trying to work for like more comprehensive healthcare that 675 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 4: like so everyone gets what they need, and like sort 676 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 4: of like using some of the language that was used 677 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,919 Speaker 4: by clinicians who are trying to fight against the band 678 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 4: and their testimony and you know, trying to claim make 679 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 4: these claims, but if we actually look at the details, 680 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,320 Speaker 4: like the regulations they're proposing would make it nearly impossible 681 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,239 Speaker 4: for anyone to transition, you know, both youth and adults. 682 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 4: And then you have like, you know, these different medical 683 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 4: professionals and kind of more liberal transphobic d trans people 684 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 4: who want more gatekeeping and regulation and control over trans 685 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 4: people and are kind of like using de transition and 686 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 4: transition regret as a justification for that or praising being 687 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 4: like oh well, Ohio, their youth clinics are already really 688 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 4: good because they're very cautious and they use therapy a 689 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 4: lot more than they actually allow youth to medically transition. 690 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 4: I mean, that argument didn't seem to work out at all. Instead, 691 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 4: it sounds like the governor kind of was like, oh, 692 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,800 Speaker 4: two thirds of youth only get therapy instead of medical transition, 693 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 4: we should do that for everyone. Uh, It's like sort 694 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 4: of like you know, if you propose restrictions, say oh 695 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 4: this is great, then of course the people who are 696 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 4: more extreme will just like take that and run with it. 697 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 5: And then you know you have uh, you know, d trans. 698 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 4: Turfs showing up and testifying for their own weird reasons. 699 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 4: You know, probably because of their connections to carry Galahan, 700 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 4: but you know, this also is a chance for them 701 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,399 Speaker 4: to sort of like you know, launder their image, make 702 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 4: it seem like, oh, look we're good, we're good d 703 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 4: trans people, we oppose the religious right, we're fighting against 704 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 4: these bands. 705 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 5: And then people who don't necessarily like know any. 706 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 4: Better will like come here maybe right right, because this 707 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 4: is like that's a strategy. They often pretend to be 708 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,759 Speaker 4: more trans friendly than they really are to sort of 709 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 4: like draw people in or be able to like influence 710 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 4: queer and trans communities and slowly slip in like crypto 711 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 4: turf ideology and recruit people. 712 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 5: Or just yeah. 713 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 4: So, I mean it's like there's just a whole lot 714 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,760 Speaker 4: of different and you know, anti trans groups and individuals 715 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 4: like stretching from like paternalistic medical professionals who want more gaykeeping, 716 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 4: who want to restrict the number of people transitioning like 717 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 4: all the way to you know, like Christian nationalists you 718 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,040 Speaker 4: want to just you know, wipe us out completely. 719 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 5: And you know, not only. 720 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 4: Uh, you know, are basically at war with bodily autonomy 721 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 4: in general. 722 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 5: They don't want anyway. They want to be the ones 723 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:25,280 Speaker 5: to control what people do with their bodies. 724 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,439 Speaker 4: Like they also want to you know, restrict reproductive care 725 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 4: and abortion. 726 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,279 Speaker 5: It's all part of the same war. 727 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,760 Speaker 4: Uh, just control people and assort their version of authoritary 728 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 4: in Christianity. And then you have you know, uh, you know, 729 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 4: weird de trans turfs, and it's just like all you 730 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 4: kind of have to like understand like all these different 731 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 4: factions and how they sort of like interact together and 732 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,320 Speaker 4: how you know they try to use each other, you know, 733 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 4: con see them overwhelming. But like the more we kind 734 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,280 Speaker 4: of understand like what we're up against, like the easier 735 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 4: it is for us to develop strategies of resistance. And 736 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 4: it's like, you know, even though you know, it can 737 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 4: seem like we're up against a lot of different groups, 738 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 4: but like, you know, we're also part of this larger 739 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 4: fight for liberation, and you know, we can connect, you know, 740 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 4: with with feminists who are fighting for reproductive autonomy. We 741 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:18,240 Speaker 4: can connect with like disability liberation activists who are fighting 742 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 4: for better healthcare for everyone. We do potentially have lots 743 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 4: of allies. We do have lots of connections like with 744 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:29,000 Speaker 4: other movements, And so when you think of it that way, 745 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,399 Speaker 4: it's like, Okay, we're not just like one small group 746 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,319 Speaker 4: up against this whole like Goliath. Let's like, no, We're 747 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,400 Speaker 4: part of this larger movement that is fighting so that 748 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 4: everyone is free and that everyone gets the health care 749 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 4: they deserve. 750 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, I think that one of the 751 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 2: one of the sort of tangential things here too is, 752 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 2: you know, this is an extremely negative example of the 753 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 2: amount of influence that a very very small number of 754 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 2: people can wield who have extremely unpopular ideologies. On the 755 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:00,920 Speaker 2: other hand, there are a lot of us, and the 756 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,799 Speaker 2: things that we believe are very popular, and you know, 757 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 2: the amount of power that we can wield if we 758 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,279 Speaker 2: are willing to organize and are when we understand what 759 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 2: we're organizing against is immense, and it is enough to 760 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:14,280 Speaker 2: drive these people into the fucking ground. 761 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:26,480 Speaker 6: Hell yeah, yeah, it could happen here as a production 762 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 6: of cool Zone Media. 763 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,400 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 764 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 765 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,160 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, 766 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 1: you can find sources for It could happen here, Updated 767 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,760 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.