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Speaker 1: Push it. Hey, listeners, before we get started, I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to let you know this episode has some strong language,

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Speaker 1: some inappropriate words. Also, at one point we talk about

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Speaker 1: a suicide. Just a bear warning, but stick around the

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Speaker 1: Racial Draft episode. The Racial Draft of the Chappelle Show.

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Speaker 1: I have taught it so many times to my students

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Speaker 1: because I mean, it is talk tribalism, right. It is

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Speaker 1: such an absurd send up of how people take credit

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Speaker 1: for representation. Right. So each group, the Blacks, the Asians,

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Speaker 1: the Hispanics, the whites, are all trading at some re

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Speaker 1: enactment of the NFL Draft, and all the celebrities are

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Speaker 1: up for trading. And in that instance, black people are

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Speaker 1: literally like giving away Colin Powell and Condeliza to the

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Speaker 1: white delegation. I'm Khalil Jabr Muhammad and I'm Ben Austin.

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Speaker 1: We're two best friends, one white. I'm a historian and

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Speaker 1: I'm a journalist. And this is some of my best

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Speaker 1: friends are in this show. We wrestle with the challenges

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Speaker 1: and the absurdities of a deeply divided and unequal country.

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Speaker 1: Ah man, and boy, what a season it has been.

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Speaker 1: This is our last episode. Yeah, this is our last episode.

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Speaker 1: Of the season, and you've talked about the challenges and

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Speaker 1: the absurdities of our differences in this country. That's right.

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Speaker 1: And we have covered everything. We have looked at life

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Speaker 1: from the tennis court to inside a prison, prisons overseas,

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Speaker 1: to Jewish identity to talking about candy Man, Candy Man.

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Speaker 1: I'll say it again, slow down, slowdown, slowdown. You've talked

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Speaker 1: about art, yep and activism as well as being on vacation,

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Speaker 1: what that looks like at Martha's vineyard and all the while.

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Speaker 1: We of course have tried to be funny along the way,

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Speaker 1: but we will never ever be as funny as some

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Speaker 1: of the folks that we're going to talk about today.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. We're actually going to talk about

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Speaker 1: comedians and comedy. Comedy takes us right up to the

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Speaker 1: mirror of the insanities that we experience in life and

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Speaker 1: shows us exactly what we're looking at. And you know,

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Speaker 1: comedy can go to the ugliest places and try to

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Speaker 1: make fun of it and try to exploit it, and

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Speaker 1: it could go to also really like profound places. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: so today's last episode of this season we take on comedy.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it all, right, and I promise you that

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Speaker 1: Khalil is going to be very funny. Always, always, don't Khalil.

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Speaker 1: From the time I was a little kid, you know,

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Speaker 1: comedy has been such a central part of you know,

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Speaker 1: I think, my sensibility, but of my life. You know,

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Speaker 1: maybe I owe that to my brother in some way.

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Speaker 1: I remember getting like the Steve Martin comedy album and yeah,

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Speaker 1: we listen to that album over and over again. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Well I I had the same experience with my dad

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Speaker 1: playing old Richard Pryor albums. Yeah. And you know what,

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Speaker 1: this tradition of comedy is the perfect art form for

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Speaker 1: x pressing the absurdities of this country we live in.

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Speaker 1: And you know, for black comics in particular. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think about going back to Moms maybe, or or

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Speaker 1: or Red Fox, who might we did know as a

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Speaker 1: stand up comic. But of course, oh man, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I mean Lenny Bruce and George Carlin, Joan Rivers, Wanda Sykes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And of course we've already talked about Richard Pryor,

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Speaker 1: but Eddie Murphy defining our generation, so I mean, like

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Speaker 1: became of age with this dude. Uh. And then of

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Speaker 1: course Chris Rock and and and the beat goes on, yep, yep.

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Speaker 1: You know. I like to think, you know, there's tons

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Speaker 1: of comedy that is just insult comedy and it just

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Speaker 1: tries to go to the easiest, most caricaturable aspect of

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Speaker 1: other people. But there's a lot of comedy that that

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Speaker 1: goes to the third rail of what's taboo, because it's

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Speaker 1: a way to make most vivid those differences and our

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Speaker 1: difficulties with them, and to challenge oursel instabilities like it

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Speaker 1: shakes us up, right. But I think the point is

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Speaker 1: that what makes those people stand out from the crowd

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Speaker 1: is precisely that they are not just funny. They are

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Speaker 1: funny about the things that are on our minds. They're

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Speaker 1: funny about the things that make us uncomfortable about the

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Speaker 1: world we live in. They're funny about the things that

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Speaker 1: some people want to say but cannot say. And they're

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Speaker 1: also funny in the way that they demonstrate the vulnerabilities

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Speaker 1: of people who are essentially victims in our society, and

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Speaker 1: at their best they give voice to those experiences, sometimes

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Speaker 1: through humor. Sometimes we're laughing at them in order to

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Speaker 1: be in solidarity with them, and it doesn't always work.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't always work. It's a huge butt like slamming

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Speaker 1: on the brakes right here. That's because because we're about

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Speaker 1: to talk about Dave Chappelle's most recent special on Netflix,

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Speaker 1: The Closer, in which like it doesn't work, it's tiganic,

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Speaker 1: but it's like it's like that that time when it's

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Speaker 1: it actually feels really offensive and it hurts and like

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Speaker 1: he goes to that third rail of taboo and gets electrocuted. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know, this controversy unfolded during our season of recording,

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Speaker 1: and the controversy is particularly around what he called the

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Speaker 1: alphabet people, you know, in this really derogatory way to

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Speaker 1: talk about the LGBTQ community. So here's why we decided

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Speaker 1: to talk about Dave Chappelle and the controversy around The

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Speaker 1: Closer because basically, in the last like twelve thirteen minutes

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Speaker 1: he does some of my best friends are kind of trope.

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Speaker 1: I want you to community to know that one of

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Speaker 1: the coolest people I ever met it was a transgender woman.

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Speaker 1: And this is not a man that I knew that

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Speaker 1: became a woman. This woman was trans when I met

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Speaker 1: a live in San Francisco. Daphne d Warman is a

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Speaker 1: name yo I was watching that and I was like,

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Speaker 1: he is literally saying, yeah, I'm not transphobic. Some of

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Speaker 1: my best friends are trans. Yeah. It is exactly why

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Speaker 1: we did this show, and of course we conceived of it,

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Speaker 1: as we've often said as a show opens, that people

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Speaker 1: are like, yeah, some of my best friends are black.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a racist. It could be you know, anything

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Speaker 1: that goes into that line that is meant to say.

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Speaker 1: You can't say I'm part of the problem, or you

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Speaker 1: can't say that I've done a bigot a thing because

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Speaker 1: I have this relationship with someone in the representative minoritized,

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Speaker 1: oppressed population. Yeah. Yeah, I mean we've sort of been

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Speaker 1: digging in on this all season about the importance of

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Speaker 1: talking across lines of difference in an honest, authentic way.

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Speaker 1: And the joke of our title is that you know,

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Speaker 1: we are best friends, but this is the one of

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Speaker 1: the most inauthentic ways to think about differences, to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, I have license to say whatever the fuck

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Speaker 1: I want because some of my best friends are or

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Speaker 1: I'm protected from any accusations of bias or bigotry because

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Speaker 1: some of my best friends are that thing. So at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of this Netflix special, that Dave Chappelle just

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Speaker 1: had the closer. He starts by saying, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to clear the air, and this is going to

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Speaker 1: be my last special. This is I'm going to say

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Speaker 1: everything I need to say, all the questions you might

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Speaker 1: have had about all these jokes I've said in the

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Speaker 1: last for years. I hope the answer tonight. I'd like

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Speaker 1: to start by addressing the lbgt Q community. I mean,

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Speaker 1: so we know pretty clearly that he's coming for a

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Speaker 1: kind of fight, and this is going to be the focus.

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Speaker 1: While in previous specials his dealing with homosexuality and transgender

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Speaker 1: community has been small parts, this is really going to

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Speaker 1: be the brunt of what he talks about for this

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Speaker 1: entire hour. Well, actually, i'd say not quite, because I

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Speaker 1: think this is his last shot at essentially clearing the

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Speaker 1: air and doubling down on a point he started with

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Speaker 1: in the series. So he actually invites this reflection on

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Speaker 1: the quote unquote entire Netflix series, which he says in

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Speaker 1: that quote, we just heard and I went back to

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Speaker 1: the beginning. I went to aga spin because I was

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Speaker 1: curious he having heard that line. There's six specials total,

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Speaker 1: there's six of them together, and it turns out that

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Speaker 1: from the age of Spin to this one and the

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Speaker 1: the everyone in between, he's basically doing a six part

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Speaker 1: series on cancel culture. Yeah, and where this is really

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Speaker 1: relevant to us. He's giving himself licensed to do so

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Speaker 1: by evoking these relationships with people who are representative of

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Speaker 1: communities that he's going to use his comedy to critique

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Speaker 1: or to say they're doing something wrong. And and and

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Speaker 1: that moves towards you know, some of my best friends

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Speaker 1: are or some of my family are, in this case

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Speaker 1: his Filipino wife, who he describes in the first episode.

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Speaker 1: You know, he makes this black and Asian joke in

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Speaker 1: that one, and he describes his wife as sort of

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Speaker 1: the person who um gives him license to do so.

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Speaker 1: He talks about his wife's friend Stewart in this first

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Speaker 1: episode because Stuart is gay and he learns about gay

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Speaker 1: people from Stewart. You see this pattern throughout the entire act,

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Speaker 1: including claiming that he's feminist, where he said, I am

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Speaker 1: a feminist because I googled it and it can be

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Speaker 1: any person who believes in equal whites of women. Then

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Speaker 1: he makes this crazy comment about you know, like my mother,

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Speaker 1: my daughter, my sisters. I love these people. Of course

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Speaker 1: I care about that. So I think it is really

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Speaker 1: something that's sauce. That's super weak sauce as ever lived

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Speaker 1: had a mom right every racist, but also being like

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna use the dictionary definition of something like like

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Speaker 1: if you're writing the paper or like you know, speaking

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Speaker 1: of the class, it's like I look this up in

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Speaker 1: the dictionary, right then you should you should be canceled

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Speaker 1: for that. Anyways, that's canceled culture, Like like I don't

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Speaker 1: feel that any joke is a you know, any subject

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Speaker 1: is off limits for a comedy, like it's how you

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Speaker 1: approach it, um, but I do. I do feel that

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Speaker 1: way about using the dictionary in that way, that that's

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Speaker 1: you should be canceled for that. So I wanted to

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Speaker 1: come back to that story he tells about, you know,

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Speaker 1: his best friend that's that's trans woman Daphne and so

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Speaker 1: called best tender. You know, it's a real it's a

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Speaker 1: it actually you know, it's both very self promoting, like

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Speaker 1: he talks about that he gave her a shot in

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Speaker 1: comedy and that you know, she laughs at all of

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Speaker 1: his trans jokes and she would be there, white trans

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Speaker 1: woman laughing loud and hard and everything I said, especially

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Speaker 1: the trans jokes, very puzzling because she was obviously transu

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Speaker 1: and then she defends him when there's criticisms, she goes

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Speaker 1: against her tribe. He says, he says, he says, and

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Speaker 1: then she, you know, she's also attacked for defending Dave Chappelle,

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Speaker 1: she kills herself. I mean, it's a it's a devastating

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Speaker 1: moment in this, you know, and this is also like,

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Speaker 1: actually Dave Chappelle's amazing ability to tell stories as a storyteller,

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Speaker 1: which is part of his comedy. But he comes out

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Speaker 1: of this in in this way that is crazy and

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Speaker 1: to me gets at what the some of my best

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Speaker 1: friends trope is, which is like you're really only seeing yourself.

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Speaker 1: It's being totally self centered. It is it is losing perspective.

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Speaker 1: Because he comes out of this and he starts talking

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Speaker 1: about both him and Kevin Hart and how they've been canceled,

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Speaker 1: and you know, he says, to take a man's livelihood

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Speaker 1: away as a kin to killing him, stop punching down

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Speaker 1: on my people. And it's like, what, you know, he's

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Speaker 1: just talked about, you know, what it's like to be

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Speaker 1: trans in a way that that you know, Uh, this,

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Speaker 1: Actually he hasn't talked He hasn't but he's only he's

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Speaker 1: only that's the thing. He's only talked about Daphanie as

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Speaker 1: a comedian. He hasn't actually talked about her lived experiences.

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Speaker 1: Yet she killed herself like it. It's like in that story,

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Speaker 1: which is unexplored by him, is the incredible difficulty of

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Speaker 1: being a trans person, of making this you know, transformation

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Speaker 1: of yourself and then to live out in the world

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Speaker 1: and it's there without him touching it and without him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing he's so But then him using he's

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Speaker 1: only using her death in the service of blaming the

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Speaker 1: actual community of trans that he's written several routines to

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Speaker 1: critique throughout this entire series. But I agree, it's such

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Speaker 1: a crazy moment to contrast those things two things, to

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Speaker 1: juxtapose her suicide and then him and Kevin Hart getting

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Speaker 1: canceled and in this show, in the closer, there's no

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Speaker 1: comedy here. It's like righteous vengeance, you know. And it's

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Speaker 1: like some of my best friends trope that he uses

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Speaker 1: and that we've been talking about, you know, which feels

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Speaker 1: like the antithesis of comedy. That's that's not funny, you

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Speaker 1: know it is it is. It is using someone else

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Speaker 1: to prove your own virtue. That's not funny. Yeah no,

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Speaker 1: I like that point about the the trope of some

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Speaker 1: of my best friends are being the antithesis of comedy,

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Speaker 1: because you know, not only does he evoke Kevin Hart

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Speaker 1: as a kind of act of solidarity as two black

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Speaker 1: male celebrities who are now subjected to cancel culture. If

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Speaker 1: you recall, he opens the first show talking about his

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Speaker 1: envy for Kevin Hart because his son wants to go

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Speaker 1: see Kevin Hart and he has to go and buy

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Speaker 1: a ticket in Sydney audience and he watches his son

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Speaker 1: adore him. I think the larger point you're making is

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Speaker 1: that there's something about David Chappelle at this point in

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Speaker 1: his career that is unlike we've seen in any other

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Speaker 1: comic of his stature. He has turned himself into the

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Speaker 1: victim upon whom's victimhood is trying to be the social

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Speaker 1: commentary for inequality, for discrimination. Yeah. Man, he actually says

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Speaker 1: at one point I'm not even talking about them, I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about us, And they don't listen, and he's talking

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Speaker 1: about him, you know, And of course, you know he

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Speaker 1: is he's talking about the trans community and he ain't

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Speaker 1: listening at all. Yeah, he's literally turned this into a

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Speaker 1: social commentary about Dave Chappelle, and these other people are

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Speaker 1: just foils for saying, you know, not only do I

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Speaker 1: not want to be canceled, I don't deserve to be canceled,

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Speaker 1: and neither do these other people. Thinking about this right

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Speaker 1: now as we're talking. One of the most clarifying aspects

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Speaker 1: of what's wrong with Dave Chappelle's act in this way

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Speaker 1: is that a lot of older comics, you know, the

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Speaker 1: Richard Pryor's, Standie Murphy's, you know, and many many others

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Speaker 1: would actually take the victimized group and show their victimization

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Speaker 1: and the absurdity of how they're treated as the context

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Speaker 1: for their comedy. And so there might still be all

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Speaker 1: the vulgar language, the B words, the F words, the

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Speaker 1: N words, and all of that, but kind of the

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Speaker 1: social commentary embedded in it was the joke about the

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Speaker 1: absurdity of how this oppressed population was actually being treated.

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Speaker 1: And Dave doesn't do that. There is no point in

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Speaker 1: which he acknowledges that trans people actually face the absurdities

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Speaker 1: of their oppression and that is the balance that one

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Speaker 1: would expect. That's the balance of our show. That's how

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Speaker 1: we take culture and unpack it and say, you know,

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Speaker 1: here's an entry point into something that we're all observing.

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Speaker 1: But it opens up into these structures that are often

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Speaker 1: invisible to us, and these power dynamics, and those invisible structures,

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Speaker 1: those power dynamics, they're hilarious. They're funny. Well they're funny

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Speaker 1: in the kind of tragic comic way. Right, So I

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Speaker 1: want to I want to I want to go back

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Speaker 1: to the first thing you said, because about cancel culture,

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Speaker 1: because because in all his examples, it's not about killing

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Speaker 1: ordinary black people. The identities that he's thinking about. He's

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Speaker 1: focused on himself so much that it's about being both

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Speaker 1: black and experiencing oppression, but being also a celebrity and

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Speaker 1: being in danger of being canceled. And so he uses

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Speaker 1: examples of other celebrities, black male celebrities. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: talks explicitly about it being celebrity hunting season. And there's

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Speaker 1: such an interesting idea of intersectionality that's going on here

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Speaker 1: because because he sort of defends himself off, you know,

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Speaker 1: his premise is that you know, I'm really talking about

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Speaker 1: how how black people are treated, and I might be

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Speaker 1: using trans people or gay people as the joke, and

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Speaker 1: again this is comedy. So the point here is I'm

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Speaker 1: not passing moral judgment as a point to make. I'm

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Speaker 1: making the point that his he actually, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: is rejecting intersectionality. I'm saying, like, look, intersectionality means that

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Speaker 1: you recognize multiple identities that people inhabit in their lives

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Speaker 1: that they can't separate the fact that one happens to

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Speaker 1: be black and happens to be a woman, and maybe

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Speaker 1: gender nonconforming or might be trans, that all those things

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Speaker 1: are embodied in a person. They might also be of

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Speaker 1: immigrant background, and so you can imagine these identities multiply,

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Speaker 1: and our ability to see who they are based on

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Speaker 1: what they want us to see, which can shift itself,

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Speaker 1: is being intersectional. It's recognizing that. And the most powerful

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Speaker 1: blind spot in The Closer in particular, but I think

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Speaker 1: all of these Netflix shows is his inability to see

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Speaker 1: that black people are also experiencing trans identities, they are

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Speaker 1: experiencing being women, they are experiencing other forms of otherness

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Speaker 1: or difference, and he's basically got an ax to grind

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Speaker 1: with white people no matter what they're identities are, and

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Speaker 1: they have intersectionality too, which he's not acknowledging. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: is his range of humanity that he's identifying with here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's confusing, and I think this is why the series

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Speaker 1: doesn't work in terms of social commentary that you know,

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Speaker 1: we would expect to be achieved by someone of his caliber.

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Speaker 1: Because your point is exactly right, He mentions Bill Cosby,

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Speaker 1: He mentions LJ. Simpson, He mentions the baby. He mentioned

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Speaker 1: Kevin Hart. He basically built a series that would allow

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Speaker 1: him to have a platform to say, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think the work that these men accomplished, their legacies are

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Speaker 1: more significant than the things they said or the mistakes

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Speaker 1: they made. He has this line and a just been

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Speaker 1: where he says, you know, he's telling a story about

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Speaker 1: having mead OJ. Simpson and his white agent had asked him,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, how could you shake hands with that murder?

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Speaker 1: And he says, in the joke, with all due respect,

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Speaker 1: that murderer ran for over eleven thousand yards. See, that's

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Speaker 1: that's a funny joke. I mean, like like because because

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Speaker 1: it also it also shows our sensibilities that we actually

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Speaker 1: value that like he is playing the buffoon in some way,

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Speaker 1: that we actually value sports over life in some form,

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Speaker 1: or that we're just like we're so distractable. There's something really,

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Speaker 1: there is something that really is poignant about that, Hey, Khalil.

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Speaker 1: So we've been talking about Dave Chappelle and The Closer,

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Speaker 1: and you know, he does he does this taboo thing

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Speaker 1: about our differences. But we were talking about it as comedy.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't work as social commentary. But but let's play

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Speaker 1: a game, all right, all right, right, all right, all right,

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Speaker 1: So so we're gonna pick three examples of comedy routines

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Speaker 1: that we think work as social commentary and as comedy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and and that actually helped us make sense

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Speaker 1: of the world. Right, That's that I think. That's that's

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Speaker 1: what I'm looking forward to. You know, we'll see what happens.

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Speaker 1: You go first, all right. Number one, So I picked

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Speaker 1: this one because it's it's kind of a response to

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Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle and it's Sarah Silverman and it's from it's

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Speaker 1: actually from like an Amnesty International fundraiser called The Secret

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Speaker 1: Policeman's Ball in twoy twelve, and she does this eight

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Speaker 1: minute like comedy routine and it's just it just fuck

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Speaker 1: it just kills. And you know, Sarah Silverman's comedy it

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Speaker 1: does go to that dangerous place and she's totally fucked

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Speaker 1: up at times. Uh, she got you know, before Cancel Culture,

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Speaker 1: she gotten a lot of trouble for a black face

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Speaker 1: routine at one point. Um. And her comedy routine is

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Speaker 1: to play sort of this innocent but then to say

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Speaker 1: the most like vulgar surprising things. And uh, here is

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Speaker 1: one where she's talking about the gay community and she

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Speaker 1: begins by saying like, Hey, I just went to this

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Speaker 1: gay Pride parade and you know, oh my god, I

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Speaker 1: had such a blast. I had a blast. But I

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Speaker 1: don't want people to label me as straight or as gay,

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Speaker 1: you know. I just want people to look at me,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and see me as white. You know.

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Speaker 1: I Wow, It's funny. It's an echo in a way

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Speaker 1: that like Dave Chappelle is actually making that very criticism

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Speaker 1: in that series about whiteness being the most dominant identity

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Speaker 1: no matter what these other people are experiencing. And she

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Speaker 1: shows that that people do this. But it's it's actually

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Speaker 1: really funny, right Like she is she's performing ignorance and

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Speaker 1: and show. You know, she's playing the buffoon in a way.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she making herself the butt of the joke. Like,

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Speaker 1: is there a danger that people don't pick up that

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Speaker 1: she's joking? Maybe, but that's part of the danger of

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Speaker 1: this comedy. Um. And I also picked this moment because

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Speaker 1: then she goes in further and she actually does the

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Speaker 1: Some of my best friends are trope. I can say

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Speaker 1: that I totally used to go out with a guy

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Speaker 1: who is half black who broke up with me because

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Speaker 1: I'm a fucking loser. And I just heard myself say

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Speaker 1: that that is the most pessimistic thing. I have the

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Speaker 1: worst attitude. He's half white and he broke up with me.

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Speaker 1: She did it. No, she did it, No, she did it.

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Speaker 1: I Mean there's so many twists and complexities in that.

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Speaker 1: You know, I just heard myself. I'm so negative and

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Speaker 1: you think it's the thing that she said about herself,

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Speaker 1: but it's about calling him half black. I mean, man, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she is a complete control Yeah. I mean again, I

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Speaker 1: think I think the context of sort of opening with

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Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle in his career at this moment, that's another

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Speaker 1: example of being self aware, right, And so she's putting

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Speaker 1: herself not in the position of being the victim, She's

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Speaker 1: putting herself in the position of being the butt of

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Speaker 1: the victimizer. Yeah right, but the joke, yeah yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that makes her the butt of the joke. Yeah. The

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Speaker 1: layers of self awareness she needs there, and I mean

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Speaker 1: talk about intersectionality is like she goes from her whiteness

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Speaker 1: and her straightness, her sense of a woman. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: all of these things are in play, and she's sort

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Speaker 1: of moving around between them in a way that you're

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Speaker 1: not even sure where she's going to come out of it.

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Speaker 1: It's great, it's really fantastic comedy. Yeah. So so so

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Speaker 1: I have an example from nineteen ninety six, uh, Chris

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Speaker 1: Chris year controversial routine, one that that in many ways

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Speaker 1: caught me at a moment. In nineteen ninety six, I

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00:24:52,356 --> 00:24:57,276
Speaker 1: had just started graduate school. I was like learning everything

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Speaker 1: for the first time about race and racism. I was

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Speaker 1: learning black history that I hadn't been taught. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you go through like this whole twelve Stages of grief

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Speaker 1: when this is happening to you, because you're feeling very angry,

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00:25:13,036 --> 00:25:15,996
Speaker 1: you're depressed, you're wondering why everyone doesn't know this, and

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Speaker 1: when they don't, you're really frustrated. And I say that

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Speaker 1: to say, when Chris Rock gave this routine in his

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six stand up Bring the Pain Man, that

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Speaker 1: was just seminal moment. It was a seminal moment right now.

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Speaker 1: I remember just when you saw that. It was like,

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Speaker 1: where were you when you saw it? I could remember

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Speaker 1: exactly where I was, and I yes, and I remember

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Speaker 1: when I saw it. I was at home at my

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Speaker 1: mom's for the summertime, and you know, I was home

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Speaker 1: from grad school. And so the routine is called Blacks

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00:25:45,836 --> 00:25:50,636
Speaker 1: versus in words, and you're playing this on air, you

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Speaker 1: are break. He basically opens up by saying that there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of racism going on in the world right now,

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Speaker 1: but who's more racist? White people are black people, And

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Speaker 1: he says it's black people because black people hate everything

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Speaker 1: that white people don't like about black people. And even more,

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Speaker 1: looks like a civil war going on with black people.

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Speaker 1: And here's the kicker, because the two sides are black people.

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Speaker 1: And in words, hey, I love black people, but I

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Speaker 1: hate niggas. Go ahead, why niggas, boy? I wish they

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Speaker 1: let me join a clue. Shit, I couldn't drop off

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Speaker 1: them here appropriate niggas man god man, I Chris rock

424
00:26:39,756 --> 00:26:43,236
Speaker 1: his voice, his skinny ass in a leather suit, like

425
00:26:43,356 --> 00:26:45,316
Speaker 1: stomp in the stage, the way that he has to

426
00:26:45,356 --> 00:26:47,756
Speaker 1: like he's like a boxer before a fight, Like the

427
00:26:47,796 --> 00:26:50,036
Speaker 1: way that he has to work himself up into this energy,

428
00:26:50,036 --> 00:26:54,236
Speaker 1: into this aggression. Uh. And then his high pitched voice. Uh.

429
00:26:54,676 --> 00:26:59,036
Speaker 1: I mean this skit as social commentary, as just like

430
00:26:59,196 --> 00:27:02,676
Speaker 1: diving right in. Yeah, well, well, well see here's a

431
00:27:02,756 --> 00:27:07,956
Speaker 1: thing like it's it's it's social commentary. Yes, he doesn't

432
00:27:08,196 --> 00:27:10,236
Speaker 1: put himself in the middle of it. In other words,

433
00:27:10,236 --> 00:27:12,516
Speaker 1: it's not about him in the way that you know,

434
00:27:12,516 --> 00:27:16,196
Speaker 1: we've been critiquing Chappelle for this latest but it is

435
00:27:16,316 --> 00:27:21,796
Speaker 1: social commentary that made me really angry. Like I got

436
00:27:21,796 --> 00:27:25,116
Speaker 1: the jokes, I thought it was really funny, but I

437
00:27:25,236 --> 00:27:28,476
Speaker 1: was so angry about it. And did you feel that

438
00:27:28,516 --> 00:27:30,956
Speaker 1: at the time and think about it differently now? Well, no,

439
00:27:30,996 --> 00:27:33,116
Speaker 1: I feel I kind of feel the same because you know,

440
00:27:33,156 --> 00:27:35,676
Speaker 1: I listened to it again. But I think for me,

441
00:27:35,836 --> 00:27:39,076
Speaker 1: the point is that it was social commentary, but it

442
00:27:39,116 --> 00:27:42,196
Speaker 1: was social commentary in the wrong direction. It was social

443
00:27:42,196 --> 00:27:45,196
Speaker 1: commentary that gave license to the Crime Bill of nineteen

444
00:27:45,276 --> 00:27:47,036
Speaker 1: ninety four. And that's what I meant by being a

445
00:27:47,036 --> 00:27:50,196
Speaker 1: graduate student. So I was learning about systemic racism really

446
00:27:50,236 --> 00:27:53,596
Speaker 1: for the first time. And I'm like, WHOA, Like, I

447
00:27:53,676 --> 00:27:55,876
Speaker 1: get it right. I've heard these same jokes from like

448
00:27:56,196 --> 00:27:59,476
Speaker 1: my cousin Marlin, who was hilarious, right and who had

449
00:27:59,516 --> 00:28:01,996
Speaker 1: lots to say about you know, brothers in the hood

450
00:28:02,036 --> 00:28:05,196
Speaker 1: and rest in peace. We love you. That's where I

451
00:28:05,236 --> 00:28:07,276
Speaker 1: rest in peace because but like when he says that

452
00:28:07,356 --> 00:28:11,476
Speaker 1: books are like kryptonite to in words because they don't read,

453
00:28:12,476 --> 00:28:15,796
Speaker 1: or when he says that black people are singing welfare carols,

454
00:28:16,076 --> 00:28:17,836
Speaker 1: you know, like we wish you are married welfare and

455
00:28:17,876 --> 00:28:19,676
Speaker 1: a happy food stamp, which is a line that he

456
00:28:19,716 --> 00:28:22,956
Speaker 1: has in the skit. I mean he is going I

457
00:28:23,036 --> 00:28:25,156
Speaker 1: mean talk about Dave Chappelle to about going all in.

458
00:28:25,276 --> 00:28:28,756
Speaker 1: He is going all in. Do you think he is

459
00:28:29,516 --> 00:28:32,916
Speaker 1: playing that he these are his beliefs or he is

460
00:28:32,956 --> 00:28:38,076
Speaker 1: showing the extreme of beliefs that are also he's criticizing. Well,

461
00:28:38,196 --> 00:28:43,996
Speaker 1: the twenty four year old me is not aware enough

462
00:28:44,156 --> 00:28:46,716
Speaker 1: to appreciate his comedy, right, So part of for me

463
00:28:46,916 --> 00:28:50,356
Speaker 1: was like understanding Chris Rock as I was growing up,

464
00:28:50,396 --> 00:28:53,356
Speaker 1: as I was maturing, as I was trying to learn

465
00:28:53,436 --> 00:28:56,836
Speaker 1: about the world, and so I'm in a way kind

466
00:28:56,836 --> 00:28:59,836
Speaker 1: of identifying with the younger activists who are upset with

467
00:28:59,916 --> 00:29:03,716
Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle, because to me, this didn't translate. This just

468
00:29:03,796 --> 00:29:07,436
Speaker 1: gave license to all the terrible policies that were happening

469
00:29:07,476 --> 00:29:10,556
Speaker 1: in the world. And I saw the humor in it,

470
00:29:10,876 --> 00:29:13,196
Speaker 1: but I was like, it's not worth it, right, And

471
00:29:13,236 --> 00:29:16,396
Speaker 1: so I couldn't no matter no matter the humor, because

472
00:29:16,436 --> 00:29:18,876
Speaker 1: I do agree it's social commentary, and I actually agree

473
00:29:18,876 --> 00:29:22,716
Speaker 1: it was funny. The consequences to me crossed the line.

474
00:29:23,276 --> 00:29:26,756
Speaker 1: Like He's he's basically saying, like I'm worried about in words.

475
00:29:27,156 --> 00:29:30,156
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing about this, like maybe people don't

476
00:29:30,196 --> 00:29:33,236
Speaker 1: know this or they forgot it, but Chris Rock actually

477
00:29:33,476 --> 00:29:36,796
Speaker 1: kind of answered for this many times, and ten years

478
00:29:36,876 --> 00:29:39,676
Speaker 1: later in two thousand and five, he told Sixty Minutes

479
00:29:40,156 --> 00:29:42,636
Speaker 1: that he basically said, by the way, I've never done

480
00:29:42,676 --> 00:29:46,956
Speaker 1: that joke again, and I probably just will. Interesting, yeah, yeah,

481
00:29:46,956 --> 00:29:50,036
Speaker 1: because some people thought that the racist things I were

482
00:29:50,036 --> 00:29:52,556
Speaker 1: saying gave them license to use the in word, and

483
00:29:52,596 --> 00:29:54,836
Speaker 1: he's like, I'm done with that routine, all right, let's

484
00:29:54,836 --> 00:29:56,756
Speaker 1: do one more Khalil and I'm gonna. I'm gonna let

485
00:29:56,756 --> 00:29:58,716
Speaker 1: you do the last one. We're gonna, we're gonna finish

486
00:29:58,716 --> 00:30:02,236
Speaker 1: this game. Tell me what you got, Okay. So this

487
00:30:02,316 --> 00:30:05,356
Speaker 1: is one that is like, I mean, groundbreaking for me.

488
00:30:05,396 --> 00:30:07,596
Speaker 1: I mean, this is when I learned about white privilege,

489
00:30:07,716 --> 00:30:11,476
Speaker 1: helped me understand white I have never forgotten it. I've

490
00:30:11,516 --> 00:30:15,916
Speaker 1: taught it to my students. It was when Eddie Murphy

491
00:30:16,316 --> 00:30:19,676
Speaker 1: did this, this comedy short on Saturday Night Live in

492
00:30:19,756 --> 00:30:24,196
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four. You know, this is Eddie Murphy post

493
00:30:24,276 --> 00:30:28,836
Speaker 1: forty eight hours. He's already a star. He's wearing leather

494
00:30:28,876 --> 00:30:34,196
Speaker 1: in the skit and it's like saying that there are

495
00:30:34,196 --> 00:30:37,196
Speaker 1: still there is still a racial divide in America. There

496
00:30:37,236 --> 00:30:41,316
Speaker 1: is still a Black America and there's still a white America.

497
00:30:42,036 --> 00:30:47,316
Speaker 1: And he says, so we need to understand this better,

498
00:30:47,436 --> 00:30:49,956
Speaker 1: we need to get behind this. So he goes into

499
00:30:49,996 --> 00:30:54,796
Speaker 1: a makeup room backstage at thirty Rock and he basically

500
00:30:55,876 --> 00:31:00,436
Speaker 1: is turned into white face. So he gets his white face.

501
00:31:00,476 --> 00:31:05,276
Speaker 1: He comes out. He's wearing the tightest like straightest gray suit,

502
00:31:05,436 --> 00:31:08,276
Speaker 1: blue tie combo you could have. He's got this wig

503
00:31:08,316 --> 00:31:11,116
Speaker 1: on that makes his hair look, you know, super straight

504
00:31:11,116 --> 00:31:15,396
Speaker 1: and super corning. Could I interrupt you for a second, man, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

505
00:31:15,436 --> 00:31:17,316
Speaker 1: because this is one of the things I picked too.

506
00:31:18,596 --> 00:31:22,276
Speaker 1: I picked this one also, yo, Yeah, well I picked

507
00:31:22,276 --> 00:31:26,116
Speaker 1: the exact he's got the white mustache. Shot. He looked,

508
00:31:26,316 --> 00:31:28,836
Speaker 1: he looked. He looks like he's from the zombie apocalypse,

509
00:31:28,876 --> 00:31:31,716
Speaker 1: his white skin, the Magnan Pi white mustache. Right, this

510
00:31:31,796 --> 00:31:35,596
Speaker 1: is this is so defining for us that, independent of

511
00:31:35,596 --> 00:31:38,876
Speaker 1: one another, out of all the world, we both pick this.

512
00:31:39,076 --> 00:31:41,796
Speaker 1: It's Called White Like Me, which is a play on

513
00:31:41,836 --> 00:31:44,596
Speaker 1: this book from nineteen sixty one where a white journalist

514
00:31:44,836 --> 00:31:47,716
Speaker 1: called It's Called Black Like Me, puts on black face

515
00:31:48,036 --> 00:31:51,956
Speaker 1: and goes to the South to experience racial oppression. Right

516
00:31:52,156 --> 00:31:55,236
Speaker 1: and I. And again that's where the brilliance of social

517
00:31:55,236 --> 00:31:59,876
Speaker 1: commentary comes into play because talk about the absurdities that

518
00:31:59,876 --> 00:32:02,796
Speaker 1: that are on view, first in that book in nineteen

519
00:32:02,876 --> 00:32:05,796
Speaker 1: sixty one, and then later in what Eddie Murphy is

520
00:32:05,836 --> 00:32:09,356
Speaker 1: doing in this kit. So there's three moments in this skit.

521
00:32:09,716 --> 00:32:11,876
Speaker 1: The first one when he leaves the studio, he hits

522
00:32:11,916 --> 00:32:15,076
Speaker 1: Midtown man had walks into it like a newspaper, you know,

523
00:32:15,156 --> 00:32:18,356
Speaker 1: like the classic newspaper shop where you all the newspapers

524
00:32:18,356 --> 00:32:20,596
Speaker 1: are there next to the candy, you know, next to

525
00:32:20,636 --> 00:32:25,156
Speaker 1: a few like apothecary items. And I was going to

526
00:32:25,196 --> 00:32:27,556
Speaker 1: talk about this exact, you know. And he goes up

527
00:32:27,596 --> 00:32:29,956
Speaker 1: to the cashier, who's white. They're in there alone, right,

528
00:32:30,156 --> 00:32:34,916
Speaker 1: Let's let's play the tape. What are you doing. I'm

529
00:32:34,956 --> 00:32:39,036
Speaker 1: buying this newspaper. That's all right, there's nobody around. Go ahead,

530
00:32:39,076 --> 00:32:46,556
Speaker 1: take it, take it, go ahead, take it slowly. I

531
00:32:46,596 --> 00:32:51,316
Speaker 1: began to realize that when white people are alone, they

532
00:32:51,476 --> 00:32:58,236
Speaker 1: give things to each other for free. Man. I've thought

533
00:32:58,276 --> 00:33:01,316
Speaker 1: about that moment a thousand times since seeing that skit.

534
00:33:01,836 --> 00:33:04,956
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yeah. So so the whole point of

535
00:33:04,956 --> 00:33:09,516
Speaker 1: that skit, right, is to show black people how what

536
00:33:09,556 --> 00:33:13,116
Speaker 1: we now call white privilege works, right, Like, like white

537
00:33:13,156 --> 00:33:16,036
Speaker 1: people get free stuff that other black people pay for. Yeah,

538
00:33:16,196 --> 00:33:19,596
Speaker 1: but to me, like this is this is where comedy

539
00:33:20,036 --> 00:33:22,996
Speaker 1: is so incredible in pointing out how race and racism.

540
00:33:23,516 --> 00:33:25,196
Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is one of the greatest

541
00:33:25,236 --> 00:33:29,716
Speaker 1: jokes about structural racism. Absolutely. And so he goes to

542
00:33:29,836 --> 00:33:32,236
Speaker 1: a bank to get a lot. He's sitting across the

543
00:33:32,276 --> 00:33:34,916
Speaker 1: desk from the loan manager. It's said, there's a there's

544
00:33:35,036 --> 00:33:37,916
Speaker 1: a plaque that says loan manager, and the loan manager

545
00:33:37,996 --> 00:33:41,196
Speaker 1: is black. That's right, And here's what happens. Let's me

546
00:33:41,236 --> 00:33:47,076
Speaker 1: get this straight. Mister, mister white, fifty thousand dollars from

547
00:33:47,076 --> 00:33:50,636
Speaker 1: my bank, but you have no collateral, you have no credit,

548
00:33:51,196 --> 00:33:54,756
Speaker 1: you don't even have any ID. Is that correct? That's right,

549
00:33:56,676 --> 00:34:00,836
Speaker 1: mister White. I'm sorry. This is not a charity. This

550
00:34:00,996 --> 00:34:04,476
Speaker 1: is a busy. What a great moment to juxtapose a

551
00:34:04,476 --> 00:34:06,796
Speaker 1: white guy getting a loan from a black loan officer

552
00:34:07,236 --> 00:34:11,956
Speaker 1: and the loan officer following the rules, the credit rules

553
00:34:12,156 --> 00:34:15,636
Speaker 1: about about about collateral. He's like, yeah, you're you're not

554
00:34:15,676 --> 00:34:18,196
Speaker 1: gonna get alone because you have nothing to put up.

555
00:34:18,396 --> 00:34:21,516
Speaker 1: And this is a perfect moment for like that racial

556
00:34:21,516 --> 00:34:23,956
Speaker 1: inversion we talked about in the nineteen eighties, right, So,

557
00:34:23,996 --> 00:34:26,436
Speaker 1: like part of this moment is that black people are

558
00:34:26,436 --> 00:34:29,556
Speaker 1: showing up in positions of power, and it's a little

559
00:34:29,556 --> 00:34:31,636
Speaker 1: bit it's touching a little bit of that sense of

560
00:34:31,636 --> 00:34:35,356
Speaker 1: like reverse discrimination, right, Like, Hey, the black guy's telling

561
00:34:35,396 --> 00:34:38,796
Speaker 1: me I can't get alone. But then the joke goes

562
00:34:39,076 --> 00:34:41,996
Speaker 1: even further because there's a there's a white manager who

563
00:34:42,036 --> 00:34:45,356
Speaker 1: walks in and sees what's going on, Harry, Why don't

564
00:34:45,356 --> 00:34:49,836
Speaker 1: you take your break now, I'll take care of mister White.

565
00:34:49,996 --> 00:34:52,236
Speaker 1: The guy's like, okay, thanks, you know, like thanks for

566
00:34:52,276 --> 00:34:54,756
Speaker 1: finishing this for me. And then he sits down with

567
00:34:54,796 --> 00:34:56,996
Speaker 1: mister White. There's two white men in a room alone.

568
00:34:57,516 --> 00:35:00,956
Speaker 1: That was a close foot one. We don't have to

569
00:35:00,996 --> 00:35:14,556
Speaker 1: bother with these What a silly negro. Just shank what

570
00:35:14,836 --> 00:35:27,756
Speaker 1: you want back any time, or don't we don't care. Yeah,

571
00:35:27,796 --> 00:35:30,756
Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're they're laughing together. He's handing him

572
00:35:31,516 --> 00:35:35,636
Speaker 1: tracts of money. As he right, he opens like you know,

573
00:35:35,676 --> 00:35:38,196
Speaker 1: a container of money, says here, take what you will

574
00:35:38,396 --> 00:35:41,556
Speaker 1: have at it. I mean, so obviously, in a time

575
00:35:41,636 --> 00:35:46,556
Speaker 1: when black people were being subjected to systemic predatory lending practices,

576
00:35:46,916 --> 00:35:49,396
Speaker 1: being denied credit when they had the credit that they

577
00:35:49,876 --> 00:35:52,956
Speaker 1: actually needed to get loans, all of this ties into

578
00:35:52,996 --> 00:35:54,596
Speaker 1: all the stuff we've talked about. I mean, it's just

579
00:35:54,916 --> 00:35:59,116
Speaker 1: it is just such an incredible send up for pointing

580
00:35:59,116 --> 00:36:02,516
Speaker 1: out the actual structural race, the way that what the world,

581
00:36:02,836 --> 00:36:05,956
Speaker 1: the world, the country is set up for you to succeed,

582
00:36:06,636 --> 00:36:09,036
Speaker 1: and you know, the things are stacked in your favor,

583
00:36:09,556 --> 00:36:11,756
Speaker 1: and it's taken that it's it's running with that in

584
00:36:11,796 --> 00:36:14,796
Speaker 1: this hilarious way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that you

585
00:36:14,876 --> 00:36:22,316
Speaker 1: picked that. I love that we picked the same one.

586
00:36:32,636 --> 00:36:36,116
Speaker 1: All right, Khalil, all of this talk about comedy has

587
00:36:36,196 --> 00:36:40,196
Speaker 1: got me thinking about this entire season, and you know,

588
00:36:40,476 --> 00:36:43,356
Speaker 1: some of my best friends are and you know, like

589
00:36:43,476 --> 00:36:45,796
Speaker 1: basically what we've been doing of like trying to skirt

590
00:36:45,876 --> 00:36:50,916
Speaker 1: this line between comedy and big ideas, and you know, like,

591
00:36:51,356 --> 00:36:53,836
Speaker 1: you know, the whole idea is that that you and

592
00:36:53,876 --> 00:36:58,636
Speaker 1: I really are best friends and we're comfortable with one another.

593
00:36:58,676 --> 00:37:02,716
Speaker 1: We're comfortable enough to talk across our differences, and we

594
00:37:02,796 --> 00:37:05,356
Speaker 1: might we might slip up and like touch that third

595
00:37:05,436 --> 00:37:08,956
Speaker 1: rail sometimes. And I think I think part of having

596
00:37:08,956 --> 00:37:11,996
Speaker 1: a genuine friendship is that the other person can call

597
00:37:12,036 --> 00:37:15,076
Speaker 1: you on it. That's right, yes, And also that we

598
00:37:15,156 --> 00:37:20,556
Speaker 1: see the racism and the bigotry and the inequalities of

599
00:37:20,596 --> 00:37:23,236
Speaker 1: the world. We tell stories about ourselves, but only to

600
00:37:23,476 --> 00:37:26,356
Speaker 1: open up to these bigger questions, and that's what comedy does.

601
00:37:26,436 --> 00:37:29,676
Speaker 1: That's exactly that, It is exactly what comedy is supposed

602
00:37:29,716 --> 00:37:31,396
Speaker 1: to do. But but I guess i'd also say, like

603
00:37:31,676 --> 00:37:34,356
Speaker 1: even when our sort of analysis is wrong and the

604
00:37:34,396 --> 00:37:37,676
Speaker 1: other person calls us on it, like, we're also comfortable

605
00:37:37,716 --> 00:37:40,236
Speaker 1: with one another that we're willing to self correct, We're

606
00:37:40,236 --> 00:37:42,836
Speaker 1: willing to sort of like reassess and kind of grow,

607
00:37:43,156 --> 00:37:46,596
Speaker 1: you know. Right, So you're saying that Dave Chappelle may

608
00:37:46,596 --> 00:37:48,836
Speaker 1: have gotten it wrong in Age of Spin, the first

609
00:37:48,836 --> 00:37:51,516
Speaker 1: of those six part series, but instead of ending with

610
00:37:51,556 --> 00:37:59,716
Speaker 1: the closer like like recognize, just like I am closing

611
00:37:59,756 --> 00:38:03,236
Speaker 1: by recognizing that maybe I went about this the wrong.

612
00:38:03,596 --> 00:38:06,276
Speaker 1: Man he need, he needs, he needs a best friend,

613
00:38:06,556 --> 00:38:08,356
Speaker 1: and he also needs to be a best friend to

614
00:38:08,436 --> 00:38:11,236
Speaker 1: somebody else, right, and and the other thing I'm thinking about.

615
00:38:11,356 --> 00:38:14,836
Speaker 1: You know, even if you have one friend who in

616
00:38:14,916 --> 00:38:18,436
Speaker 1: the most genuine way tells you it's okay to do something,

617
00:38:19,196 --> 00:38:22,276
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily make it right exactly, you know what I'm

618
00:38:22,476 --> 00:38:27,036
Speaker 1: exactly I mean, So you better better have a bigger

619
00:38:27,076 --> 00:38:30,236
Speaker 1: survey size than that, Like, you better survey more people

620
00:38:30,276 --> 00:38:33,836
Speaker 1: than my one friend. And that's exactly why this show,

621
00:38:34,236 --> 00:38:37,796
Speaker 1: you know, is about these big issues and trying to

622
00:38:37,836 --> 00:38:44,636
Speaker 1: find the way to understand them through through these lived experiences. Well, well,

623
00:38:44,836 --> 00:38:50,276
Speaker 1: doing this show with you for this year has been amazing.

624
00:38:50,516 --> 00:38:52,596
Speaker 1: I think we explored a lot of big ideas but

625
00:38:52,636 --> 00:38:56,156
Speaker 1: we also we also explored our friendship. Feel I feel

626
00:38:56,196 --> 00:38:58,236
Speaker 1: like this has been like four hundred hours of story

627
00:38:58,276 --> 00:39:01,836
Speaker 1: corps man, so you know, like that's that's what makes

628
00:39:01,876 --> 00:39:04,396
Speaker 1: me feel even better about having done this with your

629
00:39:04,596 --> 00:39:11,716
Speaker 1: love you man, love you too. Some of My Best

630
00:39:11,756 --> 00:39:16,156
Speaker 1: Friends Are is a production of Pushkin Industries. The show

631
00:39:16,276 --> 00:39:19,476
Speaker 1: is written and hosted by me Khalil, Debron Mohammed and

632
00:39:19,636 --> 00:39:23,076
Speaker 1: my best friend Ben Austin. It's produced by Sheriff Vincent

633
00:39:23,476 --> 00:39:28,436
Speaker 1: and edited by Karen Shakerjee. Our engineer is Martin Gonzalez.

634
00:39:28,756 --> 00:39:33,316
Speaker 1: Our associate editor is Key Show Williams. Our associate producer

635
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Speaker 1: is Lucy Sullivan, and our show runner is Sasha Matthias.

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00:39:37,476 --> 00:39:41,716
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Lee tam Malad and Mia LaBelle.

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Speaker 1: Special thanks to all our guests this season and to

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00:39:44,716 --> 00:39:48,076
Speaker 1: everyone that's helped with the show. That's right. Shout out

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00:39:48,236 --> 00:39:51,556
Speaker 1: Charlie Roth to my mama and of course you called

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00:39:51,596 --> 00:39:53,636
Speaker 1: her that she was like the Archie Bunker of the

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00:39:53,676 --> 00:39:59,716
Speaker 1: show like we just referred, and of course so many others,

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00:39:59,716 --> 00:40:02,636
Speaker 1: including Stephanie and Danielle. But also just want to say

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Speaker 1: quickly to all the comedians who've made us laugh about

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00:40:06,436 --> 00:40:09,436
Speaker 1: you know our vulnerabilities and the mistakes we make, giving

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Speaker 1: us a chance to see ourselves into change up and

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00:40:11,836 --> 00:40:14,676
Speaker 1: made our lives a little brighter with laughter at Pushkin

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00:40:14,996 --> 00:40:19,676
Speaker 1: Thanks to Heather Fane, Carly Migliori, John Schnars, Julia Barton,

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00:40:20,196 --> 00:40:26,236
Speaker 1: Jason Gambrell, Maggie Taylor, Nicole Morano, Eric Sandler, Mary Beth Smith,

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00:40:26,596 --> 00:40:33,596
Speaker 1: Christina Sullivan, Brian Serber, Nick, Daniella Lacan, Royston Bazzer, Maya Kanick,

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00:40:34,196 --> 00:40:38,956
Speaker 1: Sophie mckibbon, Malcolm Gladwell, and Jacob Weisberg. Holy car We

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Speaker 1: have this theme song, Little Lily by Avery R. Young.

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00:40:42,316 --> 00:40:44,636
Speaker 1: We are so lucky that that's our theme song. It

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Speaker 1: is just slamming like that's our walk up music every episode.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you, Avery R. Young. You'll definitely want

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Speaker 1: to check out his music at his website Avery ryng

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00:40:55,636 --> 00:40:59,796
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find Pushkin on all social platforms

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00:40:59,836 --> 00:41:02,316
Speaker 1: at Pushkin Pods, and you can sign up for our

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00:41:02,356 --> 00:41:06,796
Speaker 1: newsletter at pushkin dot fm. To find more Pushkin podcast

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00:41:07,116 --> 00:41:11,676
Speaker 1: listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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00:41:11,796 --> 00:41:14,236
Speaker 1: like to listen. And if you love this show and

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00:41:14,356 --> 00:41:19,396
Speaker 1: others from Pushkin Industries, consider subscribing to pushkin Plus. Pushkin

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00:41:19,476 --> 00:41:23,556
Speaker 1: Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and

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00:41:23,916 --> 00:41:27,796
Speaker 1: uninterrupted listening for four dollars and ninety nine cents a month.

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Speaker 1: And if you haven't signed up, please do. Because Dereka Purnell,

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00:41:32,356 --> 00:41:35,476
Speaker 1: the author of a new book Becoming Abolitionists, is our

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00:41:35,596 --> 00:41:38,956
Speaker 1: guest this week. Please check her out and if you

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00:41:38,996 --> 00:41:42,116
Speaker 1: want to support our show, please give us a five

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00:41:42,196 --> 00:41:45,756
Speaker 1: star review and tell some of your best friends about it.

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Speaker 1: All your best friends, lots of folks, everybody. So I

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00:42:18,596 --> 00:42:22,316
Speaker 1: was I was actually reading yesterday Eddie Glaude's book on

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Speaker 1: James Baldwin again again. Eddie Glaude is a Princeton professor.

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Speaker 1: He wrote this book about James Baldwin. It's a really

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00:42:29,956 --> 00:42:33,316
Speaker 1: interesting book. It's it's it's part history, it's part analysis

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Speaker 1: of of Baldwin's writing, and also a memoir about what

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Speaker 1: it means to be political and what it means to

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Speaker 1: be black and political. Yeah, that's it. I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to tell you I was reading about you don't have

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Speaker 1: any insight from the actor's book. What the fuck? No,

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Speaker 1: It's just like I think, if you just quoted you

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Speaker 1: sound smart