WEBVTT - Dr. Rajiv Shah 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.560 Doctor Roshaw is dedicating his life to solving the problems 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:09.240 of health and hunger. After getting a medical school degree, 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:11.879 he began his career at the Gates Foundation. From there 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.200 he joined the Obama administration as the head of the 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.400 USAID and now he's the head of the Rockefeller Foundation. 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.840 I had a chance Reacing to sit down with Rashaw 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:23.520 to talk about his passion for solving these global problems. 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.479 So tell us what is the Rockefeller Foundation. I know 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:32.839 the Rockefeller name, but what is the foundation? What does 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:33.959 it really do? Well? 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.200 The Foundation was created more than one hundred years ago 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.800 by John D. Rockefeller, and the idea was very simple, 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.680 was to use science and innovation to lift up as 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.760 many people around the world as possible. And over that 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.720 period of time, this foundation has helped create the field 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.680 of modern medicine, invest in international public health, launch a 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:56.280 green revolution through agricultural sciences that helped almost a billion 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.760 people move off the brink of hunger and starvation. And 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:02.760 today are big focus is around climate and energy. 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.040 So if I said to you, I have a great 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:07.720 idea for the Rockefeller Foundation, what's your polite way of 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:08.240 saying no. 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:13.160 Well, it depends on the idea I guess, but in 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:17.240 general we love hearing about new ideas. We do tend 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.800 to be a little more directed and focused than perhaps 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.520 other institutions. You know, almost fifty percent of our giving 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:27.280 is focused right now on ending energy poverty around the world, 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.160 which we can talk about, and so we tend to 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.800 sort of set our strategies and then go find partners 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.000 that can add value to implementing those strategies, as opposed 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.960 to just taking in recommendations broadly. 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:42.440 Now, recently you wrote an article about the importance of 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:44.360 climate change and what you're trying to do about it. 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:46.360 What is your idea of how we can tackle the 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:47.560 climate change problem. 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.880 Well, we actually are very concerned that the larger global 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:55.080 effort to fight climate change is missing a major, major 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:58.920 focus on developing and emerging economies. The reality is, if 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:00.240 all of the wealthy. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.600 Countries the United States, Europe, China. 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:06.200 Live up to the policies they've already committed to, then 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.800 seventy five percent of all future emissions will come from 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:13.880 eighty one countries that today are classified as housing more 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.160 than three billion people that live in energy poverty, and 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:20.640 right now we're on path to provide those people with 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:25.480 electricity and energy through coal, heavy fuel, oil, natural gas, 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.919 and other sources of power that will continue to drive emissions. 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:31.880 We're trying to change that pathway for those billions of 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:34.160 people to focus much more on renewables. 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:36.519 I've often thought that one of the problems with climate 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.360 change getting people to do it is that the benefits 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:42.360 are not going to be felt in your lifetime. Most 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.240 likely your great great great grandchildren will see the benefits 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:46.560 of what we do now, and it's hard to get 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:49.920 people to change their conduct for their great great great grandchildren. 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:51.600 How are you going to solve that problem? How are 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:53.960 you going to get people really care about reducing the 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:55.080 use of carbon. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:56.600 Well, David, I'll tell you. 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.160 We're seeing the impacts in communities we work in around 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.560 the world right now. And the reality is we've already 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.880 seen downward pressure on agricultural output in Africa and parts 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.760 of India and Latin America that are increasing the number 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:10.919 of people who are hungry and the number of communities 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:15.720 that are threatened. We're already seeing tremendous changes to coastal communities, 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:18.720 whether it's in Bangladesh or in South America, that are 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.520 reducing people's livelihoods and access to fisheries and sources of protein. 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.200 And we're already seeing women working in salt flats whom 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:30.799 I was with them just last winter, in working extreme 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:34.840 heat in India, and some even perishing through trying to 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:36.760 make a dollar a day or two dollars a day 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.080 doing backbreaking work in one hundred and ten one hundred 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.880 and twelve degree weather. So this is a crisis that's 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:46.640 affecting people, especially vulnerable people and poorer communities right now, 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.200 which is why the Foundation is so focused on fighting 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:49.760 climate and. 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.280 You're putting a large number of your resources and personnel 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:53.119 into this effort. 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.840 Absolutely, in fact, we're all in on addressing climate change. 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:00.720 And we as an institution founded originally on the resources 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.120 that came from standard oil, we've divested of fossil fuels 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.960 in our endowment. We're making a commitment to run our 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.600 operations in a net zero manner by twenty forty, and 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.920 we're very committed to making sure our partnerships help change 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.920 the trajectory of climate change, especially in developing countries. 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.120 Now. Recently, you've also written a book called Big Bets. 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:23.560 We'll go through the book and some of the big 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.080 bets you've made, but what gave you the idea of 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.200 writing a book, so you're so young in your career 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:29.480 about your career already. 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.440 Well, I mostly wanted to just make the point that 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:35.760 when you work in social impact, or when you work 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:38.320 on issues like global development, which I've had a chance 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.480 to work on at the Gates Foundation under President Obama 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:43.760 at US eight and now here at the Rockefeller Foundation, 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:48.200 you don't have to settle for incrementally doing good. So 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.640 much of human charity is about sort of doing a little, 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.640 doing what you can, and feeling good about it. And 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.400 I wanted to introduce the idea that you can actually 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.000 try to solve some of the world's biggest, most challenging problems. 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.080 And in fact, if you look at our philanthropic history, 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.160 not mine personally, but that of the Rockefeller Foundation as 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.480 an institution, or what the Gates Foundation has done as 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:13.600 an institution, I think their biggest wins have been thinking 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.880 of solving problems globally and moving hundreds of millions or 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.479 tens of millions of people out of really dire living 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.039 conditions into a much more bright future. 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.719 About making a little, small incremental bets are easier to 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:26.760 get done. Why isn't that easier to do than the 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:28.520 big bets, which could fail well. 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:33.200 Ironically, big bets require making lots of small, incremental bets 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:33.800 along the way. 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:35.479 We're trying to bring power. 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.360 And electricity through renewables to a billion people who live 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.840 literally in the dark, with less electricity per person than 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.200 it takes to power one light bulb than one small 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:45.599 appliance in their home through. 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:47.760 The course of a year. We don't solve that through 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:49.840 one large effort. 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.680 We're going to solve that by collecting and aggregating thousands 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:55.760 of small actions from people around the world. 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:56.719 But here's the difference. 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:01.720 When you aspire to do something big and bold, you 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.960 can then talk to leaders who want to be a 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.720 part of solutions at that scale. I can sit down 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.360 with Larry Fink at Blackrock and design financing instruments that 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.040 can bring billions of dollars. I can talk to the 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:18.400 heads of those putting together the cop climate negotiations at 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:22.080 the UAE and structure new initiatives that can mobilize the 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:23.400 kinds of resources we need. 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:24.960 Or I can partner with. 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.520 Colleagues at Tata Power and say let's build ten thousand 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:32.000 rural minigrids and move twenty five million people out of power, 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:37.159 out of energy, poverty. Those types of solutions, in my view, 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:38.760 happen when you dream big. 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.880 Let's talk about your background. So your parents came from where. 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:44.600 My parents are from India. 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.040 Where did they settle Well, they. 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:50.279 Started actually in Pasadena, California. My dad was an engineer 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.000 who was working on the Apollo programs for a company 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:57.560 called Bendix that was designing components on Apollo missions. But 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.840 they quickly moved to Detroit, Michigan, and my dad had 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.080 a thirty year career at Ford Motor Company. 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.200 And your mother, my mom. 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.320 Is an early childhood education specialist and she started a 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.960 Montessori school and ran that throughout my childhood. 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:13.680 So she grew up in the Detroit area. And I 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:15.760 assume you were a superstar student? Is that right? 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:17.800 I was a pretty good student, and I grew up 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.320 in an Indian American community that was pretty focused on 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:22.480 being a good student. 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.080 You went to University of Michigan, I did go blue. 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.760 And what did you wanted to study there? Well? 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.960 I started as in engineering because I grew up in 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:33.240 a family where you're either going to be a doctor 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.480 or an engineer, and I thought I do be an engineer. 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:38.640 Maybe be an auto designer was. 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:42.200 My sort of early plan, but quickly switched to literature, science, 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.320 and arts and started studying economics and policy. 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:47.720 All right, So when you graduated from Michigan I assume 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.040 you did recently. While there, you decided to go to 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:52.360 medical school at University of Pennsylvania. 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:52.800 I did. 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.120 But medical school wasn't enough. You also wanted to get 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:57.160 another degree as well. 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.440 You know, in reality, I think I felt I supposed 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:02.920 to be a doctor because I just sort of grew 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:06.840 up with that, and I got very interested in politics 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.480 and policy, so I wanted to learn about health economics, 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:13.120 and I joined an mdphd program at penn and Medical 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:14.160 and the Warden School. 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.280 Then did you set up shop to become a doctor? 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:17.080 I didn't. 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.040 Did that disappoint your parents? 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.960 It? Well, it did at the time. It maybe not disappointment. 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:25.480 It made them awfully nervous. But after I took my 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:28.840 last set of board exams, my then girlfriend and I 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.280 now wife, and I got in my car and drove 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:34.760 fourteen hours to Nashville, Tennessee, from Philadelphia in order to 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:40.160 volunteer on al Gore's presidential campaign when it was during trial. 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.720 It was so when he did not become president. What 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:44.920 did you do? Well? 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.040 I found myself unemployed for a little while, and I 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:51.920 started dabbling in political consulting and doing some other. 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.559 Make your parents nervous that their year had no. 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:58.440 Job, very nervous, and frankly, they and everybody else wanted 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.199 and I even wanted to, you know, thought okay, gosh, 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.080 now I should go back to medicine and just be 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.720 a doctor, do a residency. But then I got a 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.400 phone call from a friend who I met on the campaign, 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:10.880 who said, you know, Bill and Melinda Gates were setting 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.640 up this foundation and they had big aspirations for what 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:15.360 they wanted to do, and they were looking for someone 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:20.560 who knew health economics and medicine and had some perspective 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.640 on global health issues. So I interviewed for a job, 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:25.360 and you got it, I did. 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:29.080 So what was the challenge you had there? You wrote 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:30.679 about it in your book, But why don't you describe 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:32.679 what you tried to do there over the two or 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:34.040 three year period of time you were there. 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:38.880 Yeah, so this project was really their big initial effort. 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:41.840 Bill and Melinda had read an article about a disease 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:46.439 called roadavirus that was killing four hundred thousand kids around 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.679 the world every year. And in that same article they 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.240 pointed out that a company, Merk was rolling out of 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:56.520 vaccine in the United States to address roadavirus where kids 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.120 actually didn't die of the disease. And so they had 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.080 the very simple question of why couldn't we get the 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.680 vaccines to every child on the planet, in particular those 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:07.880 that need them to survive. 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.079 So your project was to get this vaccine to everybody 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.240 in the world, essentially every child who needed. 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.080 It, well, every childhood vaccine that existed, to every child 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.000 who needed it. And so we studied the global birth 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.240 cohort of about one hundred and five million kids at 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:25.360 the time. We assessed the data and concluded that probably 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.720 about half of those kids were getting some form of 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:31.720 robust vaccination that could save their lives from infectious diseases, 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:32.360 and half were not. 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:34.760 So did you eventually meet with Bill Gates when working 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:35.480 on this problem. 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.000 Yeah, And I write about this in the book because 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.880 I learned from Bill the power of asking a simple question. 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.120 It wasn't just one meeting, but he would pull us 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:46.160 all together quite regularly and say, you know, what does 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.400 it take to vaccinate every child on the planet. We 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:51.400 were trying to get to a cost analysis of that problem, 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.840 which required really deconstructing the challenges. And it was interesting 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.640 because what I learned in that setting was sometimes complexity 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.000 can make it hard to engage. And Bill just insisted 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:07.120 on finding a simple answer to a simple set of questions, 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:09.600 and that helped us craft a strategy that made a 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:10.199 big difference. 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:11.920 So you point out in the book that you couldn't 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.320 vaccine all the children in the world by yourselves. The 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.600 Gates Foundation had good resources, but not unlimited power to 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.640 do everything, so you had to engage countries, and you 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:22.240 point out in the book that one time you went 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.320 to meet with the President Sharrock of France and you 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.559 didn't have shoes that were appropriate. 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:31.040 What happened, Well, what we learned as we were doing 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.720 the work was that the vaccine industry wasn't even producing 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:37.800 enough vaccines for kids in low income countries effectively, and 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:41.000 so we needed to restructure the way the world financed vaccines. 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:43.920 We put a proposal together for the World's Big for 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.240 a Big and First Social Impact bond to solve that problem, 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.200 and we were effectively seeking France's support to make that 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:55.160 bond viable, and so Bill and I met with President 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:59.680 Sharrock at the Elyse Palace, and I was coming from Seattle, 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:04.840 and I just had old shoes and didn't have I 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:06.720 had actually left the new shoes I bought for the 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.400 meeting back in Seattle, and so I was wearing shoes 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.080 that had a little hole in the bottom of it, 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:14.840 and I was just self conscious about that. And so 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.280 we sat in the meeting and the meeting went great. 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.040 President Shruck said We're not only going to make this happen, 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.400 but I'm going to direct my finance Minister, Nicholas R. 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:26.000 Cozy to create this project with you guys, and. 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:30.360 That ended up transforming global immunization and vaccinating nearly a 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.760 billion children over twenty years. But when I called Rick 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.960 to ask him about what Bill thought of the meeting, 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.760 which I thought was a home run, he was sort 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:41.520 of ribbing me a little bit and said, well, Bill 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.040 thought the meeting was fine from a content perspective, but 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.439 he was really concerned about your footwear. 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:47.560 And at the. 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.600 Time I was just a young kid working at the 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.440 Gates Foundation. I was terrified that that was actually true, 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.040 and I learned they were just making funny. 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:59.160 You survived that, but you accomplished that global immunization program, 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:01.360 you said you wanted to do something different, so you 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:03.480 decided to leave. What did you do next? 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:08.880 Well, I was at Gates for a while, and after 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:11.200 President Obama got elected, I got a phone call to 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.600 join the Obama administration. And it had always been my 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.080 dream since I left medical school to work for Gore, 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.360 that I'd get a chance to serve in an administration, 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.559 and so I moved to Washington, d C. 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:24.560 Do you want to initially to work for the Secretary 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.800 of Agriculture? Who is I guess there's still the Secretary 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:28.480 of Agriculture. 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:29.560 It's Tom Milsak. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.880 He's had a couple of tours of duty in that position. 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:36.040 So you later got asked to be the head of USAID. 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:38.080 What is USAID? 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:42.559 Well, the United States Agency for International Development is America's 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.520 prime development and humanitarian agency. 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:46.760 Was founded by John F. 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.920 Kennedy, and it has a very clear and direct mission 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:55.440 and the ideas bringing dignity, security, hope, and opportunity to 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.680 the poorest parts of the world makes us all safer 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:00.400 and makes us all more prospers us. 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:02.640 So you got that job when you were fifty years old. 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:04.800 I got that job when I was thirty six years old. 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.720 Thirty six years old, you're running USAID. How many employees 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:08.079 does it have? 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:09.559 We had eleven thousand. 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.760 And did you feel qualified to run something that big? 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.679 Well, you know, at the time, I did, until you know, 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.720 the work started. So I was confident that I had 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.840 ideas and experiences that could help the agency be successful. 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:28.120 But it wasn't until the Haiti earthquake happened effectively on 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.680 my first week on the job, that I realized I 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:31.560 needed a lot of help. 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.560 So, the massive earthquake in Haiti occurred, USAID is going 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.400 to take the lead for the US and trying to 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.920 redevelop and fix the problems in Haiti. And so you 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.840 go to the OVO office and you hear something you're 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.320 not supposed to hear, which is the Vice President United States, 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.960 Joe Biden, now the president saying is this guy really 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.120 able to lead this effort or something like that? Is 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:50.480 that right? 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:51.080 Yeah? 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:55.080 So President Obama called me actually the day before, right 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.440 after the earthquake happened, and said, first time I took 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.000 a call from a president and said, Roger, I put 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.600 you in charge of a whole of government efforts, civilian 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:06.600 and military to respond to this tragic crisis, which ultimately 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:08.960 led to more than two hundred and fifty thousand people 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.560 perishing just two hours from our shores. And so the 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.320 next morning, in an Oval office briefing, I got there 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:16.800 just a few minutes early because I. 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.120 Was terrified of being late. Your shoes were OK, and 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:20.360 my shoes were fine. 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.200 I walk in and President Obama and Vice President Biden 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.560 were over by the window, Biden facing out and Obama 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:29.560 facing the sort of door when you come in. 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:31.240 So he saw me come in, and. 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.120 Vice President Biden was in the middle of saying to 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.120 President Obama, are you sure about this guy, rod Shaw. 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.080 He's only thirty six, He just got here to Washington. 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:44.240 And the person who leads FEMA, Craig Fugate, has much 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:48.080 more experience leading these efforts. Maybe we should ask Craig 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.280 to help. And Obama saw me and walked over right 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.200 away and said, rog come in, sit down. And then 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.520 next thing I knew, everybody poured into the meeting room 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.120 and we very quickly got right into the work. 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.520 What ultimately happened in Haiti? What did the United States 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:06.480 government do through us AID that helped ameliorate the problem, 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:08.080 not solve it ameliorate it. 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.960 Well, in reality, we mounted really the fastest and largest 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:16.120 humanitarian response in history at that point, and we did 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.480 it because we were and we were able to do it, 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:22.680 not because USA did everything, but because we were able to, 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:24.960 as I write about in the book, kind of open 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.840 the turnstiles and invite in colleagues from the Federal Emergency 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.760 Management Agency as well as the Department of Defense, and. 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:34.920 Use all of those assets and capabilities. 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.040 So people must say to you all the time, you've 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:38.880 done a lot of things, you should run for office. 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:40.840 Do you ever think about running for something? 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:41.840 I do? 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.720 Since I was a little kid, I've always been enamored 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.280 of the concept of public service, and frankly, my time 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.000 in government taught me that if we have the right 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.320 kinds of leaders in place, we can get a lot done. 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.240 So you had decided it for a while, You've been 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.160 at the USAID for a while, maybe it's time to 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:57.600 leave and do something else, and then all of a 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:01.360 sudden another crisis comes along both law. So what was 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.360 your responsibility and how did you tackle that problem? Well? 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:08.439 USA carried the responsibility of working with the Centers for 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.280 Disease Control to really mount a response in West Africa 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:16.119 and contain and ultimately limit the disease before it spread 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:17.000 around the world. 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.520 So after ebola problem is more or less solved, I 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.600 wouldn't say you're eliminating Ebola complete, but it addressed a 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.320 problem you decided finally, and you then pursued what I've 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.240 called the highest calling of mankind, which is private equity. 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.199 You start up, you set up your own firm to 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:37.240 invest in i'd say, electrification projects around the world. Is 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:37.600 that right? 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:38.320 That's correct. 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.520 You had two very big backers, Dick Blum was one 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:43.680 of them, and David Bonderman the other. 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.399 Yes, We started the process of building a small firm 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:53.399 partnered closely with a larger firm, TPG, and started identifying 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:57.040 projects and raising funds. And I got about a year 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.159 and a half two years into that, about a year 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:02.040 and a half into that, and the opportunity at the 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:05.439 Rockefeller Foundation came up, and I ultimately felt that that 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:07.320 was more aligned with what I wanted. 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.600 So you became the president of the Rockefeller Foundation. How 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:11.600 many years ago now is not six? 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:11.959 Now? 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.640 The Rockefeller Foundation is very famous over one hundred years, 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.480 it's not nearly as big as the Gates Foundation. So 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.199 how do you deal with the challenge that people think 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.280 you have unlimited amounts of money, but you really don't. 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:27.960 You know, our resources really should be society's risk capital 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.840 to solve tough problems, and we think of it that way. 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:34.720 So we're not trying to pay for solutions at scale. 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:39.119 We're really trying to build partnerships that either allow companies 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.439 to build out renewable electrification to reach people who are 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.639 very poor and make that profitable and viable on a 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.600 commercial basis, or get governments to do things that are 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.720 transformational like we did during the COVID crisis here in 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:52.560 the United States. 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:57.800 So do you worry about the problems of the dysfunction 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.720 of the US government sometimes? I mean, clearly we see 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.600