WEBVTT - The Manta Ray, Part 1 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.760 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:15.040 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.479 name is Robert Lamb, and I am Joe McCormick. In 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:21.400 this episode, we're going to begin our look at the 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:26.040 manta ray because I very recently had the privilege to 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:30.479 travel with my family to Raja Ampat in Indonesia for 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.880 a week of snorkeling. And during that snorkeling, I got 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:37.519 to observe manta rays while in the water snorkeling, and 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:41.040 it was just a mind blowing experience. It was just magical. 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:44.000 I can't quite put it into words exactly, but it 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:46.120 was one of these situations where as I was snorkeling 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.400 out with the other snorkelers towards this manta ray cleaning station, 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.920 I found myself like mouthing, oh my god, oh my 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:55.320 God through my breathing apparatus. 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.760 The cleaning station is that, do I understand right? That's 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.240 a place where they come to sort of be be 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.679 swarmed by fish that will help get parasites or other 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:06.839 kind of contaminants off of their bodies. 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.400 Correct. This is this is pretty remarkable in its own right, 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:12.520 and I think we'll get into that more in the 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:16.000 second episode of this series. But yes, that's what we 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:20.720 were observing. These were some reef manta rays that had 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:23.800 come out to the cleaning station so that these various 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:27.399 fish could eat their parasites. And yeah, it was just 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:31.200 magical to watch these creatures move through the water like 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.600 some sort of animate black and white cape, you know, 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:38.679 some sort of an angel or demon, just something almost 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:40.360 beyond our ability to comprehend. 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:43.560 It's a bach coming in on the organ as they 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:44.320 swish around. 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.880 Yeah. Yeah, they're very, very dramatic, but also, as we'll 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.280 be discussing, relatively drama free at least as far as 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:53.600 what they're doing and what they're bringing to the table. 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.040 There's a lot of manta ray drama, but it's it's 0:01:56.080 --> 0:02:00.440 almost entirely on us, the humans. Yeah. So I want 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:02.280 to mention up here at the top that we did 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:06.880 this snorkling at the Missoul Marine Reserve. This is also 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.400 where you find the Missoul Resort. The resort is just 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:14.440 one leg of the overall conservation mission here, which actually 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.040 started before the tourism part of the operation, like the 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.519 tourism part apparently was then built up afterwards to fund 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.919 the conservation mission, and I can't say enough good things 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.200 about this place. Founded on the side of a former 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.280 shark finning camp and in an area that had been 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:35.200 previously targeted by illegal lumber operations and dynamite fishing, and 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.800 now through the Missoul Foundation, they manage about three hundred 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:43.280 thousand acres or twelve two hundred square kilometers of marine 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:46.600 reserve with two distinct no take zones. They engage in 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:50.560 various conservation efforts, such as the Missoul Manta Program, a 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:54.600 reshark program, and this includes a program to reintroduce Indo 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.400 Pacific leopard sharks, and they partner with various organizations of 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.360 various like aquariums around the world old who have the 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:06.400 right eggs egg secs to reintroduce and their partners include 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:10.960 Atlanta's own Georgia Aquarium. They're also involved in coral reef restoration, 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:15.040 sustainability efforts in various community outreach and education programs. 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:17.799 So you said you were doing a lot of snorkeling here. 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.600 I know y'all are a snorkeling family, right, I have 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:21.760 no experience with this. 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:25.720 Yeah, yeah, my wife got us into it, and you know, 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.200 we'll go on snorkeling excursions here and there, and I 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:31.040 have to say, yeah, this is the best snorkeling of 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:34.320 my life thus far. This part of the world is 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.440 in what's known as the Coral Triangle. This is an 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:42.080 incredibly rich and diverse marine environment that happens to include, 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:46.320 according to the NOAA, quote, over six hundred reef building 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.960 coral species, seventy five percent of all species known to science, 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:53.080 three thousand species of reef fish, forty percent of the 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:56.280 world's coral reef species, and six of the world's seven 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.800 marine turtle species. Also three quarters of known molluscs. 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:00.720 So it's happening. 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.680 Yeah, it's yeah, just a very very rich place. And 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.400 you know, I'll no doubt come back to other things 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.840 I observed there in future episodes. But one of the 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:14.240 many highlights again was getting to observe these reef manta 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:18.359 rays in the wild. So we'll get back to the 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:22.120 details of the different the two main different manta species, 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:26.040 but this is the second largest of the rays and 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:30.200 one of only two possibly three extant manta ray species. 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:32.839 They can weigh up to fifteen hundred pounds or seven 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:37.080 hundred kilograms, and that's with a maximum disc width of 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:41.520 fifteen feet or four hundred and fifty centimeters if you were. 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:43.920 I guess you could sort of frame that as their 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:45.440 wingspan if you want. 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:47.920 But you said, so, these are the reef mantas, and 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.000 the largest of the manta rays would be the giant 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:52.240 oceanic mantas. 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.160 Correct. Yeah, and we'll come back to the stats on 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.360 them in a minute. But yeah, in both cases, great 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.600 bat like black and white creatures that seem to glide 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:05.000 and soar through the depths. And I think I had 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.640 observed some in the water while standing on a sandbar 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.560 elsewhere in the world previously, but this was my first 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:14.640 and only time getting to see them while in the water, 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.080 and again it was just astounding. 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:19.400 So I have no experience with snorkeling, but in reading 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:23.520 up for this episode, I just kept coming across firsthand 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:28.720 descriptions again and again of how strange and amazing it 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.400 was to be in the water with manta rays. A 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:35.640 common thing these divers and researchers talk about is a 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:41.000 feeling of kind of intelligent or almost emotional connection with 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:45.320 the animal that they have not experienced with any other fish. Because, 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:48.279 to be clear, the manta is not like a mammal 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:50.960 like dolphins or whales might be that you might be 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:54.480 more you know, disposed, you might have more experience hearing 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.359 about these kind of connections people have with marine mammals. 0:05:57.920 --> 0:05:59.760 But these are fish, you know, we think of them 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:04.480 as these very kind of cold creatures of limited intelligence, 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:06.880 kind of like sharks that seem to be mainly just 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.720 kind of machines acting on impulse. They don't have that 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.440 feeling of emotion and intelligence you might get from a mammal. 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.400 But in this case, this is a fish that lots 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.839 of people say, does it does have that feeling. It's 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.239 like it's there and it's alive and it's thinking. 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.360 Yeah, this is a great point. And I think we'll 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:29.000 probably get into the intel, the brain, the intelligence of 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:33.000 the manta ray, especially in the next episode. But but 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.440 you do see this observation a lot. There seems to 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.839 be a curiosity on the part of the manta, and 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.600 in many ways, this kind of curiosity reminds us of 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:48.880 our interactions with mammalian marine species like dolphins and whales. Now, 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.280 in the case of our own experiences, I want to 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:55.680 stress that we observe them while snorkeling, rather than say 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:57.680 that we swam with them. I guess you could technically 0:06:57.720 --> 0:06:59.320 say we swam them with them. We're in the same 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.560 button body of water with them, but we did keep 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:06.080 our distance. We did not chase the manta rays, and 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.839 we certainly did not attempt attempt to touch these gentle 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:09.960 giants of the sea. 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:11.440 I assume that's discouraged. 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:16.360 It is discouraged, yes, And in discussing this, like the 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:21.000 human desire to touch the manta ray, I wanted to 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.920 get into a preliminary discussion here about the human attitudes 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:30.000 toward the manta ray because this is important because ultimately 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.400 human attitudes towards the manta rays also plays into their 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.600 endangered status in the world, certainly with the oceanic man 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:41.640 manta so manta rays enjoy a pretty wide range. They're 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:46.200 found in warm, temperate, subtropical and tropical waters around the world. 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:50.040 As such, humans and coastal areas within their range have 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:54.280 known about them for a very long time. Hawaiian, Micronesian, 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:58.280 Southeast Asian, and South American traditions have viewed the manta 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.960 in varying supernatural life, as reincarnations of human souls, as 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:08.240 avatars of a creator deity, as divine protectors, as divine messengers, 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:12.640 and as such, they've even enjoyed traditional protected status amongst 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.000 certain groups, at least at different times. But there's also 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.880 a darker side to human attitudes toward manta rays. Over 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.720 the past couple of decades, the demand for manta ray 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:26.640 gill plates in traditional medicine, particularly traditional Chinese medicine, has 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:31.200 proven devastating for manta ray populations. Based on the unproven 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:35.000 and to be clear of pseudoscientific idea, the consumption of 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.000 these gills in some sort of like powdered driver and 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.720 or powdered form can boost the human immune system, among 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.920 other supposed benefits, and the story of how this is 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.760 really interesting in its own right. I was reading about 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:53.400 this in a paper by O'Malley at All titled characterization 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.240 of the Trade in Manta and Devil ray gill plates 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:00.440 in China and Southeast Asia through Trader Surveys, published in 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:06.199 twenty sixteen in Aquatic Conservation, Marine and Freshwater Ecosystems, and 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:10.360 they point out that mention of manta gill plates didn't 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:14.199 pop up in traditional Chinese medicine publications until around nineteen 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.640 seventy six. This to be clear, despite the fact that 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.880 traditional Chinese medicine itself is very very old, going back 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:27.040 like five thousand years, a widespread and popular form of 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:32.480 alternative medicine. But the consumption of these gill plates is 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:37.760 not some sort of deep seated tradition in this alternative 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:38.800 medicine practice. 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:40.920 This would not be the only case that something is 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:44.880 presented as a traditional or ancient cure from some culture 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:46.880 or other when it is not. It is a fairly 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:48.679 recent thing people have started doing. 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:54.200 Yeah. One of my key sources for these episodes is 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:57.360 twenty eighteen's Guide to the Manta and Devil Rays of 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:02.880 the World by Stevens, Fernando Dan, and Dyscaria. And in 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:06.080 this book, which I'll keep coming back to, they say 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.840 that this was all likely a quote clever marketing of 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:12.520 a readily available and cheap bycatch product. So, in other words, 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:17.080 various unsustainable fishing practices would be pulling mantas in any way, 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.600 and then they're like, well, let's market the parts of 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:24.680 this creature and sell it. And then as popularity builds, 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.480 it translates into direct targeting of mantas by what they 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.640 describe as boom and bust fisheries. So for reasons we'll 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:35.560 discuss in these episodes. These are vulnerable species that do 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:38.839 not easily endure this sort of targeted fishing, so these 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:43.480 operations inherently produce very short lived paydays while doing long 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:47.679 term damage to the populations. They also note that the 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.240 rise in popularity may also tie in with the rise 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.800 in human respiratory illnesses do in part to pollution, and 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:59.040 again these pseudoscientific claims. Basically, we're dealing with the idea that, Okay, 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:03.319 the these are filters for the fish, and therefore, on 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.280 some level, if I consume them, it's going to help 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.360 filter me out as well, it's going to protect me 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.720 from the things that would harm me in the environment. 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.199 So again, gill plates would seem to be a relatively 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:18.800 recent addition to traditional Chinese medicine and one that has 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:22.840 had a marked impact on the populations of these vulnerable 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.679 fish species. The reef manta is currently flagged as vulnerable, 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.839 while the giant oceanic manta is endangered. 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:31.640 And I would imagine that we can come back to 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:34.280 this because I'm sure there's more nuance, but I would 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.760 imagine that they are especially vulnerable to heavy fishing and 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:42.640 harvesting because they're larger species that have a slower reproductive 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:43.680 schedule exactly. 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:56.079 And then historically, on top of all of this, there 0:11:56.120 --> 0:12:01.120 are Western European misconceptions and myths about manta and devil rays, 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:06.040 rooted apparently in the observations of sailors, but managing to 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:09.880 survive well into the early twentieth century and manifesting in 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.400 written fiction as well as in at least a couple 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:13.720 of early horror films. 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.240 Yes, so, Rob, at your suggestion, I looked these up. 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.600 You sort of gave me an assignment here, and I 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.240 checked these movies out. Strangely, both of these made in 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.760 the nineteen thirties, you know, I think of the seventies 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:29.000 through the nineties as kind of the heyday of oh, 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.880 I don't know, killer Monster in the Ocean movies. Of course, 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.120 following Jaws, Jaws is the big one, and then you 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.840 get all the Jaws copycats, you know, Orca and everything 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.560 like that, and then even further down the chain into 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:42.840 like the real kind of Z grade copycats. You know, 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.800 in the nineties and two thousands there were just ten 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.199 billion direct to video shark movies made. 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.440 Yeah, that's that is a great observation, especially since what 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:58.800 is it fifty years of jobs now celebrating a major birthday. 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.560 But yeay, we I mean, you can't deny the power 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.280 of Jaws. Like, as much as I hate to contribute 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.160 to the demonizing of e ocean creatures, Jaws is just 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:08.439 a banger. It's a great movie. 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.320 It is. It's a great film. It changed movies forever. 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.719 You can't talk about blockbusters without talking about Jaws. You 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:19.760 can't talk about monster movies really without talking about Jaws. 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:22.880 But it is interesting in pointing out that films like 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.480 Jaws arise in the nineteen seventies and then various other 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.920 creatures are drawn into the mix. But the seventies seem 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:34.520 to be the time period during which in the Europeans 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.280 in the West woke up to the idea that, oh yeah, 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.319 manta rays are fine. They're like absolutely not threatening anybody. 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.760 Not only are they not threatening, not actually threatening. It's 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.400 hard to conceive of them being threatening, Like, we can't 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:50.200 even think about making a monster movie about something so tame. 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.280 We'll make one about the killer rabbits first. 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:54.679 I feel like the stuff you would get later, like 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:58.360 in the eighties is movies that had friendly aliens that 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.040 were basically manter ray shape. I can't even remember what 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.280 movie I'm thinking of, but I can picture it in 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:08.880 my mind, like a gentle, sort of illuminated, bioluminescent, floating 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:12.040 manta ray with intelligence. That's like communicating with a child 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.679 or something. Does that ring any bells for you who 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:15.680 that one? 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:19.000 Not specifically, but I was reading doing some additional reading, 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:22.120 and there are various examples of creatures in sci fi 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:24.840 that say, live in the atmosphere of Jupiter. They're at 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.960 least partially based on the mantray. Oh, Like, it just 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.440 has a pleasing ethereal form. Again, it's like to the 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:34.920 point where it's almost hard for us to put ourselves 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.000 in the mindset of someone who sees a manta ray 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.360 and thinks about it as a relentless killer. 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:42.840 Oh the Jupiter when you mentioned rang a bell because 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:44.760 we just talked about the story in our series on 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.480 the Great Storm the Big Red Spot of Jupiter, because 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.200 that was in a meeting with Medusa by Arthur C. Clark. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.280 One of the aliens they meet there is like a 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.280 giant manta ray in the atmosphere of Jupiter. But anyway, 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:57.720 we got it, okay, So we got to talk about 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.240 these manta horror movies from the nineteenth thirties, neither of 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.560 which exactly lives up to that promise, but they're both 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.720 kind of marketed that way. So one of these movies 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:12.680 is called The Sea Bat Sea, not c the letter 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:16.400 Sea Bat Sea Bat From nineteen thirty This is a 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:22.080 pre code American romantic melodrama directed by Wesley Ruggles. Apparently, 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.760 in early production, Todd Browning was somehow attached to this, 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.320 and it was maybe supposed to be a vehicle featuring 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:33.160 Lon Cheney, but that never worked out. So this was 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.840 directed by Wesley Ruggles, shot in Mexico, starring Charles Bickford, 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.840 Raquel Torres, and Nil's Astor, and it even has Boris 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.480 Karloff in a small role. This came out a year 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.680 before Karloff's big break in Frankenstein that was thirty one. 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.440 So this is set on an island in the Caribbean 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:54.000 and the story follows a character named Nina played by 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:57.960 Mexican actress Raquel Torres, who is either in love with 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.520 or is the sister of, depending on which synopsis you read. 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:05.240 I was not able to watch this movie before recording today. 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:07.480 Is either in love with or is the sister of 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:11.600 a sponge diver named Carl. Sadly, Carl is killed when 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:15.600 his diving party is attacked by a dreaded local creature 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.320 known as the sea bat, and this is described in 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.560 some sources as a giant manta ray, in other sources 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:26.440 as a sting ray, which, as we'll discuss more throughout 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.040 the series, that those are not the same thing, though 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:32.520 some publications describing the movie seem not to recognize that 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:34.480 there is a difference. I think they just think, like 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:39.320 mantray's our stingrays same thing. In some effects shots, you 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.960 can see it really doesn't look like either. One rob 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.040 I put one screenshot in here for you. There are 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.160 shots of it underwater where it I don't know, it's 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.200 shaped kind of like an airplane or like a spaceship 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.320 of some kind. And then there are some shots where 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.520 you see it at the water line and it looks 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.760 just more like a giant shark or tuna type creature. Anyway, 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:04.760 After the tragic loss of Carl in this sea bat 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.600 related incident, the character Nina starts getting into voodoo and 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.200 then declares that she will marry any man who can 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.680 kill the dreaded sea bat. Several men try and fail 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.440 and then eventually a traveling preacher named Reverend Sims comes 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.560 to town. This is Charles Bickford, and he somehow both 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.919 converts Nina to Christianity. He leads her out of her 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.560 pact with Voodoo and falls in love with her. And 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.159 it's a tragic romance, I guess, or I don't know 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.439 how tragic. I think they do end up happily together 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.879 at the end. But there is a twist because it 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.879 turns out Reverend Sims is actually an escaped convict pretending 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:42.920 to be a minister. And then some of Nina's other 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.679 jealous suitors try to capture him and turn him in 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.040 for the bounty. But on the way there, they're like 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.399 on a boat, and the boat gets attacked by the 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:53.600 sea bat so they get sea batted, but Reverend Sims 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.000 survives and he goes back to Nina and they I 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.600 guess they live happily ever after. That's what I could 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:03.000 piece together reading various nazis online from the American Film 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.800 Institute Catalog's historical entry on the movie. I just wanted 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:09.400 to read a couple of production notes because they factor 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:14.439 into the Stingray or Manta Ray discussion quote. According to 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.119 the Telegraph News. The movie, with its crew of sixty 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.760 two personnel, was quote believed to be the largest motion 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:24.919 picture expedition to leave Hollywood for another American country. The 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.560 production required three pullmans and two baggage cars with two 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:32.119 hundred tons of equipment, and an inventory of articles taken 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.040 into Mexico under customs bond covered by more than one 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.880 thousand pages and showed a total value of eighty thousand dollars. 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.320 The article also claimed that the titular subject of the film, 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:46.239 the Giant Stingray, was filmed for the first time in 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:46.920 the sea bat. 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.560 The giant stingray. Now, I'm not sure where that would 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.879 be that there is a giant freshwater stingray, but I 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:56.919 think this is a creature you find in touch tanks. 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:00.280 This is not in captivity. I don't think this is 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.120 something that is going to be that threatening. 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:05.879 And once again, like I said, I couldn't watch the 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.439 whole movie, but in the clips I saw there were 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.479 two different ways the sea bat looked, and neither of 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.600 them looked like a real animal anyway. 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:16.240 Not clear if. 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.080 Anybody involved here knew the difference between a stingray and 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:23.119 a manta ray, which is rob Cee if you follow 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.640 me here, I think that's somewhat comparable to the difference 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.400 between like a great white shark and a whale shark, 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.920 like pretty different organisms. One's a filter feeder, the others 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:33.680 a predator, right right. 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:35.520 And even then with the sting ray, I think there's 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.360 depending on what type of stingray, you have different forms 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:39.760 of feeding that are taking place. 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.640 But yeah, essentially, many reviewers of Sea Bat also say 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:49.439 not enough Sea Bat. Sea Bat sequences are limited, and yeah, 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.439 so in the in the scene I did see of 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.800 it chasing the boat, it's like attacking the boat as 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.800 they're out on the water. It's basically Jaws. The creature 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:58.840 looks like a cross between kind of like a sting 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.320 ray but also like a and kind of a giant 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:06.200 silver tuna type thing. The other Killer Manta movie that 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:10.600 you flagged for me is The Devil Monster, which was 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:12.960 released in several different years. There was a nineteen thirty 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.919 six version, nineteen forty six version, also known as The 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:20.840 Sea Fiend. This is yet another production at least somewhat 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.800 marketed as ray horror, but it actually features relatively little 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:28.040 on screen ray action. So it was first made in 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.639 nineteen thirty six re edited and re released multiple times, 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:35.000 including in nineteen forty six when it was beefed up 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.159 with a bunch of exploitation content, which included footage of 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.920 what appears to be sadly genuine animal cruelty, like forcing 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.879 live animals to fight each other, and then also stock 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:50.280 documentary footage of native Pacific islanders just going about their 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.680 daily life included, no doubt, because this was a way 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:58.000 around Hayes Code prohibitions on nudity at the time. This 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.159 was directed by s Edwin Graham. The basic plot of 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.520 the nineteen forty six version is about a mission to 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:06.760 find a missing sailor whose ship was wrecked on the Galapagos, 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:10.520 though apparently huge stretches of the movie take a break 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.480 from the main narrative to just show octopus fights or 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:18.399 top topless women processing grain, and the climax has several 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.760 characters forced to battle a giant manta ray that is 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.440 said to be a threat to the local tuna fishermen. 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:29.080 So once again you got a monster manter ray the monster. 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.800 So I looked at this part where they're battling the ray, 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:36.040 and it does look much more clearly like a ray. Unfortunately, 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:38.320 I think in this case that's because it is a 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:41.280 real manta ray and the film's action climax is just 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:43.880 an unsimulated harpooning of a real animal. 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:46.159 Oh well, that's quite unfortunate. 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:48.959 So from a distance, I'm going to give a preemptive 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:51.080 thumbs down to both of these movies. 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:54.720 Yeah, I don't think either of these are contenders for 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:56.040 weird house cinema treatment. 0:21:56.240 --> 0:22:00.480 Yeah, but it does raise this question, like because it's 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:04.680 framing them, framing rays as this monster that attacks humans 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.239 and you know, threatens boats and all. This was it 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.640 common before the modern era to view manta rays as 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:13.959 a kind of monster or at least a potentially dangerous animal, 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:18.320 like its cousins, the predatory sharks. And yes, I did 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:21.800 find evidence that this was just kind of common sailor's 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:24.680 lore that rays would, you know, could be dangerous, could 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:28.160 attack you, They might attack boats, they might attack divers. 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:32.119 One article I came across that was recounting some of 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:36.280 this folklore was from nineteen ten by the American biologist 0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:39.760