WEBVTT - #371 Guest Host Earlonne Woods with Joaquin Ciria 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.520 On the night of March twenty fourth, nineteen ninety, Felix 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:08.080 Costo Rico was walking down an alley in San Francisco's 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:10.920 Mission District. Witnesses saw a man get out of a 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:16.000 white money Carlo and confront Felix, and the two started arguing. Suddenly, 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:17.600 a shot rang out and. 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:19.360 Felix fell to the ground dead. 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:22.440 The shooter jumped back into the car and sped away 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:25.919 with another man at the wheel. By the next morning, 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:28.920 rumors were flying around the streets that the shooter was 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:32.760 a lifelong friend of Felix's, Joaquin Syria. They had grown 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:35.760 up together in Cuba. Word was that the two were 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.760 in a dispute over money. Joaquin had been out earlier 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.479 that evening with a friend who drove a white money Carlo, 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:43.519 but he claimed to be home with his wife and 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:45.800 baby son for the night by the time the crime 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.960 was committed. After viewing several lineups that included Joaquin's picture, 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:54.040 two eyewitnesses id'd him as the man they seen. One 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:57.920 witness claimed that she was eighty percent certain and that 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:03.000 was close enough for the jury. But this is wrongful conviction. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.759 Welcome back to wrongful conviction. I'm Mariline Woods, co creator 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.800 and co host of the Ear Hustle podcast, guest hosting 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.240 for Jason Flummerday, and I gotta tell you I served 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.920 over twenty seven years in prison, and I used to 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:31.319 always think about the people who were in here that 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:34.640 were actually innocent, you know, dealing with the day to 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.440 day grinding rigor of prison life. And that brings us 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:42.640 to our guest today, Joaquin Sarah, Joaquin, welcome to Wrongful Conviction. 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:46.279 Thank you, thank you, cool cool. And here to help 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.920 tell Joaquin's story is Paige Knap. She's the supervising attorney 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:54.960 at the Northern California Innocent Project. Paige, thanks for being here. 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:58.160 Yeah, I am super excited to meet you, Arline, and 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:00.960 super happy to be with you Morningquin. 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.960 Joaquin, can you tell me, like, since you're from Cuba, 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:06.680 what was your life like growing up. 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.640 Growing now in Quwa. It was beautiful? 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:12.880 It was beautiful, you know for me to be a 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:16.320 child growing now in my country. You know, so rein 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:20.000 them my family frame and kill what you do a 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.320 lot of teams you know that you're not able to 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.040 do in this country. You know, I remember you know 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.360 that in kill what we to play? You know, in 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.880 the three to one o'cloud two okline the morning, and 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:36.040 it was no danger. Everybody know everybody, you know, because 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:41.000 it's an island. I had a royal beautiful Shaoho. 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.800 Got you, got you, got you. So when you were 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.760 a youngster, the US and Cuba was beefing. You know, 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.200 they have a pretty fraud history. The Missile Crisis, the 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:54.840 Commonist Revolt, and bargoes. Not really a free flowing dialogue. 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:58.800 So I'm just curious, like, what were your impressions of 0:02:58.840 --> 0:02:59.959 the United States back? 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.799 Well, let me let me tell you this, man, everybody 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:03.880 c the majority. 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.600 We grow out believing everything that we're watching the TV 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:14.320 about the United States. We really believe that Superman really exists. 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:19.000 Anything that you go out from United we really believe that. Brother, 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:23.200 you know, you know in we watch so brainwatched, you 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:28.360 know that when we're watching movie A Superman won the Woman. 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:33.359 We really believe that these type of people exist in 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:34.200 the United States. 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:37.520 You know, unbelievable. 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.480 So this see how I grow out. 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:43.440 And and and and Joaquin, you knew the victim in 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.200 this case, Phyllis bastar Rica. When you were a kid 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:47.320 back in Cuba. 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:51.440 You know a Phyllis we all call hi calitles. He 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:55.640 was close to my neighborhood, so mini mini minie time. 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.760 We who to skate from the school to go swimming 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:02.040 in the ocean, you know, go go ib some mango 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:07.000 sugar cane. Everybody liked to be around Phillis. You know, 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.920 if you go into a party, you want him to 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:14.200 be there. He was only laughing all the time, making 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:19.800 a lot of joke. Definitely, he was a good friend, right. 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.039 And I'm just curious. Did you come from like a 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:24.679 political family over in Cuba. 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:28.240 My father he was a revolutionary, you know, he was 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:33.800 a Commonist. He fight with the Gostro you see, with 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.040 the cast got the power way. My father was a 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.560 part of that. Yeah, the majority of my family they 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.160 really believed, you know, in the Commonies. And it was 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.760 probably in the house, you know, because we all got 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:50.839 different views. Since my ely age, I got really really 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.880 big trouble to fit in the Commonist party. I got 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.120 trouble with that. So you know, at the age of eighteen, 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:00.960 I was called to be in the army. I was 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.600 in high school at that time, but they don't care. 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.360 That was a man that told it called. You know, 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.520 a lot of young people escape because we don't want 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.320 to do that, you know, to go fight to some 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:16.000 other country, like a lot of joints in Cuba, they 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.440 were saying to Angola to fight a lot of all 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:21.279 these young people got killed, you know. 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.600 So me and might say, oh, I don't want to 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:24.839 do that. 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:28.640 So when I was called to be in the army, 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:34.200 I remember that I was there maybe for about sismon 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.440 and I escape. A lot of Johns say do that. 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:40.920 After I escape, I go to my family house and 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:44.520 I spend some time with my family. Into my father 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:47.440 come and told me, and he said, you know what, 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.120 walking I don't want no trouble with the government. 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.039 You have to give it, you say, do the right thing, 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:53.320 you know. 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.400 And and I respect my family, you know, I love 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:57.320 my father so more. 0:05:57.960 --> 0:05:58.840 This is how I aim. 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:02.480 Then, you know, in prison, you know in Cuba, it's 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:04.920 not like right here, you know, right here out waiting 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:08.719 something hoppy to your wyoka crying right in two or 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:10.200 three days they take. 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:11.720 You to court your due process. 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.640 Yeah, in gil White Diffity in Cilbai, they directed you, 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.880 Yeah you can be I THEO for one through three four. Yeah, 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:22.240 I do never go to court. Yeah, they see how 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.240 it is in Kuwa Damn. 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:30.479 So in May of nineteen eighty, after spending some time 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.920 in prison, you fled Cuba as a part of the 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.200 Mario Boat left, which from my understanding was a mass 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.960 migration of around one hundred and twenty five thousand Cubans 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:44.719 that was sanctioned by both Jimmy Carter and Fidale Castro. 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.440 You were still a teenager at that time, right, yeah, 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:49.640 And I want to ask you what do you remember 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.359 about the boat ride from Cuba to Florida because I 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:54.440 used to always see it on the news, you know, 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.440 individuals on floats and stuff like that coming from Cuba. 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.000 What what do you remember about that boat ride? 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:04.280 Well, Frosseto, to be honest with you, bro, I see 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:06.640 a lot of ball when I was in the ocean, 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:10.160 you know, and we're talking about a ball that you 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:14.240 might can pull twenty or thirty people in that ball. 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:18.520 So what the Cuba government was doing need instead or 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:20.920 pull twenty or toty people? 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.520 They who to put too home? Three people in the bowl. 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:29.800 So imagining and let me tell you, Mane, I see 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:35.000 with my own eyes how a lot of boat this appeal, you. 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:35.840 Know, in the ocean. 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.640 One minute that was next to US, and when I look, 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:43.560 it's not a te anomal, it is like it's gone. 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:48.160 So it was really, really really it was really ugly, 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:50.040 you know, right. 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:55.080 So fortunately for you you got here safely and you 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.280 landed in Key West, Florida. Can you tell me what 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:01.360 your feelings were when you first read the United States? 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:05.040 At that moment, I feel, you know, I watched Hoppy, Yeah, yes, 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:06.440 I wa Hoppy completely. 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.320 You know that I fleck. I watched Hoppy. You know that. 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.440 I mean you not a state that I don't have 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.280 to live it a field no more, I don't have 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:14.760 to water. 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:18.480 You know about that? I going and they killed bid 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.640 they govin main't on Sonky like that. I know. I 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.360 wasched in the most power with fo komtri in the war. 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:31.080 So at that moment, anything that they told me will 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:31.720 believe it. 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.480 So over the next few years, you kind of skipped 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:38.000 around to a few different cities and you finally ended 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.840 up in San Francisco living with a woman named Nellie Hernandez. 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:44.800 Nelly was a little older than you, and she had 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:48.160 six kids. And back then you were hanging out with 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:51.200 a couple of your partners from Cuba. Your childhood friend 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.520 Felix Costa Rica who had also made it to the US. 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.920 And a guy named Robert Socorro. And there was another 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.640 cat from Cuba that was a hustling name in Candido 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:02.960 ds What did you know about him? 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:07.240 You know, Candido Dias, What I know about him? You 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:08.360 know that he's a cute one. 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:12.480 You know, he was living in San Francisco in the 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:17.880 Star Hotel, you know, in nineteen ninety. And I never think, 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:22.760 you know, he had any typeo or bad feeling about me, 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:26.160 a fat that I know. You know, we're talking sometimes 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.920 and you know when you got the feeling that you 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.920 don't click with the person, you know, that's the way 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.600 I feel, that's the way he feel. But we never 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:40.400 let it, you know, pass to the level or having 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:42.319 any type of problem with him. 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.360 Okay, And when you was in San Francisco and me 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:49.040 asked us, what was the San Francisco Police Department? 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:58.440 Like? So in nineteen ninety in San Francisco Police Department, 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:05.199 it was really really really I could root department. I 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:09.000 already you know, listening in the three what they were doing, 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:13.839 how they brand drag on people car you know, and 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:17.960 and all that type of stuff. You know, of course, 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:22.520 not everybody not every police is doing you know, some 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:27.520 really Torigan, they really got some a lot of bad apple, 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:37.040 you know in the San Francis Complete department, h. 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:53.720 My twenty four, nineteen ninety. 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.360 You know, my personal life at that time it was changing, 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.280 you know for the betro You know, I my baby's mama. 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:05.280 You know, Johanna pays about almost about a jayago before 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.840 my son was born. I was a happy man, you 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.440 know at that time. I'm oh, my friend, Oh, my friend. 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:12.560 What's happy with me too? 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:14.480 You know? Roveto socorro he. 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:18.560 Was happy if Philidy Jhuto coming to my house. It 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:22.320 was a happy time for me, right, you know at that. 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:26.280 Time until, of course, your good friend Felix Basto Rico 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.440 was killed, which happened on the night of March twenty fourth, 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:33.280 nineteen ninety. So Paige, can you can you walk us 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:34.800 through what transpired that night? 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.800 Yeah, So what we know is that Felix Pasta Rica 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:42.080 was walking down the street with a plastic bag. We've 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:45.439 since learned from Roberto SoCoRo that Roberto was in hiding. 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.960 He had just killed someone and had asked Felix to 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.760 bring him some clothes and toilet trees and stuff. So 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.040 he's walking over to the bay Bridge Motel where Roberto is, 0:11:55.320 --> 0:12:00.040 And in Clara Alley, which is sort of perpendicular to 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.080 the Baybridge Motel, there are people. There's a guy in 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.640 a car, Kenneth Duff, and there's a woman up in 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:10.160 the window, Kathleen Guovara, and they both hear this loud altercation, 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:14.319 this loud argument in the alleyway, and describe these two 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.560 people kind of walking back and forth interacting with each other. 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:19.960 There's a white Monte Carlo that the guy with the 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.400 gun gets out of and he shoots Felix Pastrica in 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:25.840 the street and jumps back in the white Monte Carlo 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:28.800 and drives off right. 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.679 And that even in Joaquin, you were spending time with 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:36.760 another friend, eighteen year old George Varilla, who was actually 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.359 the son of your former girlfriend Nellie Hernandez. 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:40.000 Yeah. Yeah. 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.440 And Joe Barrela, we who to be real close where 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.520 he wasched, you know around a nine. Yeah, oh, we 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:49.680 who to go to the video a keda all the 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:54.959 time we watched Aditta to play video. I'm to be honesty, 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:58.400 I feel, you know, even when I watch young I 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.760 feel like he was my son. Right he God to 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.280 come to my house almost every two three days. 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.920 Okay, so can you tell us like what you and 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.920 you know George got into on the evening of March 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.479 twenty fourth, before y'all have parted ways. 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.920 I remembered that nine that wasn't home with my family. 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.320 You know, I expaid that, you know, to stay home. 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:24.600 I was in May and I received a phone call 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.400 from your So when I got the phone your he 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.720 started told me and he said, hey, man, what you doing? 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:32.600 I said, man, I'm right here. You know, I spent 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.000 some time with Johanna and with my son. Man. I 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:37.920 bol why we don't go to play video? 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.720 So he conveys me and I go out the way 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.280 here and he come out to peep me out. 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:45.760 It is white Monte Carlo. 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.160 Oh, George Forriala drove a white money Carlo. 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.720 He got a white Monte Carlo. He peeped me out. 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:55.200 Almost around seven o'clock, we go to that CAA to 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:59.000 play video. I remember that we got there almost around 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:00.959 seven saving Tody. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:03.720 We what play video? Buado the Blue. 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:05.800 He come out and told me and said, hey, what 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:07.720 can't I have to go back to my house because 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:09.560 my girlfriend she come out from Richmond. 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:11.040 So to make this toy show. 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.600 We leave, and when you left, you didn't go straight home. 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.559 You enjoyed stopped by Gallon's Bar first, where a lot 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.160 of Cubans and Puerto Ricans ain't got at to see 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:21.440 if you might meet up with a friend of yours there, 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:27.000 But instead you ran into another guy, Roberto Hernandez, who 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:28.880 was not exactly a friend. 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.720 We don't get along, you know me and he got 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.840 a fire side. After I see my friend Manolo, I 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:36.640 talking with Manolo for a little while. 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.720 I got to defight Joe Barrella. Take me home. 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.480 I got to my house around a twenty five h 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.120 eight toty Navid, I leave. 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:47.840 My how a game and did you know what you 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:48.640 was wearing at night? 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:49.120 Yeah? 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.880 Yeah, that's something that I never go and forget that, Navid, 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.960 because at that time, I don't know if you remain 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:58.560 me that a lot of young people Epecio, black people 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.400 like me, we who to with that type post Jackie 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.840 letter JACKI you know that it was all colorful letter. 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:10.160 Jaki Song said, command the squad, so Wan said, how 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:15.480 roly so say Cobra got I don't think that I 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:17.880 think that I even can sleep with that Jackey. 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:21.920 D. C. How to much I know, Michael Mama squad. 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.400 Yeah, and they see how I get out out of 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.320 my house when yo body piped me out. 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.040 Okay, cool. So George dropped you off at around a 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:32.680 thirty and you spent the rest of the evening at 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.640 home with Johanna and your son. But by the next 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.560 day there was already a rumor going around that it 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.560 was you that killed Costa Rica, as you found out 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.040 from your friend Manolo when you went to Gallon's bar 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:44.840 the next day. 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.440 Manolo and some other people watch outside the bottom. 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.840 When Manolo see me, Manolo approaching me, you know how 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:54.720 he said, hey, Waki, how you doing? 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.160 My friend you know ween Brace and he said, man 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.400 why you don't leave the CD? And I look at here. 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.680 I say, leady, CD, what are you talking about? Manolo? 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:06.400 He said, Maine Alito, last night? You know I'm the 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.880 rue noise that you beat it. And I say, hey, 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:11.840 A stop playing like tom mate, do you show? What 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:13.000 are you talking about? He said yeah. 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.200 So when he told me now the Frost team that 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.520 is coming, you know, in my mind, I just say, oh, man, 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.120 something Roman, and I just started to be afraid. 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:26.320 And it came out later that Condido DZ was the 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.680 likely instigator of that rumor, but however it got started. 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.040 The two homicide detectives work in the case, Arc Gearns 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.040 and James Crowley ran with that. 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:39.440 Rumor, so Joaquin's name comes up really fast in the investigation, 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.040 and from as soon as they get his name, he 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.320 is the only person they ever look into. And so 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:47.960 essentially what you can see in the police reports is 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:52.400 the two homicide inspectors who have Joaquin as their one 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:56.240 and only suspect, start showing his picture to the two eyewitnesses, 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.120 neither of whom identify him. They ask her, well, who 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:03.240 looks most like the shooter, and she says, well, she 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.639 points to Joaquin's photo and says he looks most like 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:07.920 the shooter, but she doesn't say it's him, and the 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.560 guy in the car says he doesn't pick anybody out, 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.440 but they still keep their focus entirely on Joaquin. 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.239 But Joaquin didn't even match the descriptions that the two 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:17.560 witnesses gave, right, No. 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.880 Yeah, so the police did get descriptions from the eyewitnesses 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.520 of the shooter and the things they describe because they 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:26.400 both sort of say they see him from a distance, 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:28.600 kind of the silhouette. They say he's got an afro, 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.240 and that he's wearing this long trench coat. And we 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.760 know from independent witnesses, including the guy Joaquin got in 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:37.480 a fight with, who you know, didn't like him and 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.080 had no reason to lie for him, that Joaquin's hair 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.240 is in a long Jerry curl, not in an afro, 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.440 and he's wearing this short, short leather jacket and not 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.479 a long trench coat. And in fact, no one had 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.119 ever seen Joaquin ever in a trench coat, and he 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:52.560 didn't even own a trench coat. 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.840 You know, thank God that I just stop at the 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.760 Gottam Bottle because you'll see everybody see me how I 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:03.600 want the race. Everybody, the people they said, they DeFi. 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.280 They've remained me how I watched the race. They've remained 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:08.600 me that I got a Jedi krail. 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:11.440 I mean, even when they search the house, they're never 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:15.560 able to find anything to connect Joaquin, and and so 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.080 you know, it doesn't match. He doesn't match the descriptions, 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.800 and he's got an alibi. His his girlfriend and their 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.920 roommate tell the police from the very beginning that he's 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:26.240 home that night by eight thirty. 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.760 Nevertheless, Garan's and Crowley stay focused on Joaquin as a suspect. 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.359 And so at that point, Joaquin, you went to the 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.359 police station on your own, correct. 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.760 I cannot take a no moment. I cannot take a 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:40.600 no more. You watch some more rumo that I said, Man, 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:42.280 I have to go talk to with the homo side. 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.679 I have to go talk to with the homo side. Bolutality. 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.440 I go with my Loyo to speak to the homo side. 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:53.440 About two and a half weeks after the shooting, and 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:55.840 he tells them that he was with George Ferrella in 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.320 the white Monte Carlo, and he tells them how to 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.400 find George says, I, you know, I dated it his mother, 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:03.920 Nellie Hernandez. They live at this address. Here's what he 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.280 looks like. Here's the car he drives. I mean, basically 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:10.520 everything they need and they pull in George Verilla and 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:13.200 George is initially saying, well, I can tell you what 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:15.600 happened up until the time Joaquin and I split up, 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:17.720 and then he says he went home after and he says, well, 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.600 I probably I probably went somewhere after though, and they 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:23.000 never ask him where did you go? Instead, what they 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.320 say is we know Joaquin was the shooter. You're going 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.399 to go down for this murder. He's you know, George 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:30.120 is eighteen. They tell him, you're going to go down 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:33.320 for this murder unless you stop lying and covering up 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:36.359 for Joaquin, and they essentially tell him like, he's just 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:38.320 got to say that Joaquin is the guy in the 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:40.320 car with him at the time of the shooting, and 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:44.399 that Joaquin is the shooter. And George Verilla literally says, Okay, 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:48.440 whatever you said, and then he repeats the story that 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.320 they have now fed to him, and that's it. 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:57.359 So I guess subsequently later you end up getting arrested. Joaquin, Yes, 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.720 and you end up getting arrested based on a confession from. 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.960 George, or at least from George saying exactly what the 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:05.000 police told them to say. 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.720 Okay, so he was he fabricated her from the offices 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:09.800 Garin's and Crowley. 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:12.040 Yeah, I mean, they tell him he's got to say 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.840 it's Joaquin. That's like then they keep going back to 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:18.880 the eyewitnesses. Basically, the witnesses make positive IDAs only after 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:21.760 they're repeatedly shown Joaquin, and for one of them, she 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.320 doesn't even make a first positive IDA until the preliminary 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:26.879 hearing when he's literally sitting in a red jumpsuit at 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.320 the defense table, and then she's like, oh, I'm sure 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.720 that's the guy, and she says it's based on his 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:36.040 attitude that she can see is how she's identifying. I mean, 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.560 there's a lot of racism all through this trial, Like 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:41.480 she even says, I think they were speaking African. 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:47.040 So on April nineteen, nineteen ninety, Joaquin, you were arrested 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:50.480 in charged with first degree murder. Bro what was going 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.359 through your head? I mean, did you even think this 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:54.280 shit was real? 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:55.280 Do you know what? 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.119 Let me tell you, these whoop not even going like 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:03.159 washing my you, I really believe that everything worth real. 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:05.560 I was thinking that I was in a can't the 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:10.320 camera show looking all these people coming and pointed me 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:14.159 with a finger, Yeah, that the main And in my 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.680 mind I said, main, I know, I know the camera 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:19.520 is going come out and they go and say a 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.800 smile you in camera, you know, because that was a 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.600 famite show at the time. I go to watch that 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:31.240 show tomorrow, you know, and I and I say, you 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:34.040 know what, I mean, what happened to me? I cannot 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:39.760