WEBVTT - 539 - It Keeps Getting Ruined

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hartstars,

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<v Speaker 1>that's Karen Kilgarriff, and we've got some surprises in store

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<v Speaker 1>for you today. Bloody vacation nail he oh, those are

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<v Speaker 1>the longest I've ever seen. Your name, not mine.

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<v Speaker 2>They're like literally vacation nails that I'm obsessed with.

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<v Speaker 1>Will you throw up those nails to your camera as

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<v Speaker 1>we are on Netflix and show the world.

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<v Speaker 2>They're gel x and they just make you feel like.

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<v Speaker 1>A grown up. Yeah, they look really nice.

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<v Speaker 2>My nails have always been like junior high school and

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<v Speaker 2>now I'm like in my thirties working at a law firm.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, congratulations, when'd you get that job? When

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<v Speaker 1>I got that, they came with the nails exactly wow,

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<v Speaker 1>because my nails are the manicure I gave myself at

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<v Speaker 1>the last minute because I couldn't somehow get to the

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<v Speaker 1>manni petty salaun. Show your camera, well, no, because it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's just dire because it now looks like a French manicure.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's not how it started. That's how kind of old.

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<v Speaker 1>I also always immediately smudged my right thumb. Always so irritating.

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<v Speaker 1>Life is hard. Yeah, are you having any since you've

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<v Speaker 1>been back from your trip to Italy? Which, now that

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<v Speaker 1>you're a travel influencer, I think we should discuss all

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<v Speaker 1>of your opinions and likes and dislikes. Finally, thank you

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<v Speaker 1>can let me. Is anything staying with you that you

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<v Speaker 1>miss about being on that trip or like your Italian experience?

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<v Speaker 2>You know what I miss which was really nice, which

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<v Speaker 2>probably gets old after a while, but it's only two weeks.

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<v Speaker 2>Is dressing for dinner because they have that period between

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<v Speaker 2>the afternoon and the evening where nobody does anything. You

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<v Speaker 2>take a nap, and then you have to put on

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<v Speaker 2>like a dress for dinner. You can't wear tennis shoes,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's just like made everything feel so much more special.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I loved that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but yeah, it was incredible at a really good,

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<v Speaker 2>beautiful time. Milan is like incredible. I'd go back there immediately. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we stay with My mom texts me a thing of

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<v Speaker 2>like don't wear your Star of David again.

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<v Speaker 1>She texted me these things.

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<v Speaker 2>If I've ever had a jewelry, Yes, she said, don't

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<v Speaker 2>wear your Star of David, like keep it low key

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<v Speaker 2>that you're Jewish, as if that's not what I already do.

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<v Speaker 2>But then we found out we were staying at a

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<v Speaker 2>hotel where Mussolini had stayed before.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it's like I can't tell her that that.

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<v Speaker 1>You're like, look, I'm seeing their side of things. No,

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<v Speaker 1>that's not good. But also, you can't get away from

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<v Speaker 1>a city's history. You can't. You know, it's not your fault, right,

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<v Speaker 1>but the really nice hotel was also his way. My

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<v Speaker 1>fault was lots of things are my fault in my mind.

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<v Speaker 1>World War two, though, I don't you can let yourself

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<v Speaker 1>off the hook for that one. I mean, it must

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<v Speaker 1>be a huge relief, it is. What's up with you?

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<v Speaker 1>I've just been wearing a star David around. See what

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<v Speaker 1>I can kick? Not much? You know. We went on

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<v Speaker 1>vacation obviously, you know, at the same time, but I

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<v Speaker 1>did a staycasion and truly just tried to do nothing.

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<v Speaker 1>Literally lay on the couch and pull a blanket up

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<v Speaker 1>to my chin, like it was the middle of winter.

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<v Speaker 1>Any chance I could? I love it? Did you bringe

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<v Speaker 1>Widow's Bay? Oh? Yeah, And now I'm in the watching

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<v Speaker 1>people react to how much they love Widow's Bay on

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<v Speaker 1>social media, which is such like it's becoming this new

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<v Speaker 1>way that we all watched TV. Yeah, where it's just

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<v Speaker 1>as satisfying for me to watch people get excited to go.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's what I think that it.

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<v Speaker 2>Was my favorite. I fucked the whole thing up there.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's the negative side of that. I watched a spoiler

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<v Speaker 2>on accident and knew that last bit, that last exciting

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<v Speaker 2>bit I accidentally watched a fucking like it's the whole

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<v Speaker 2>turning point of the show.

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<v Speaker 1>But when you went in knowing it, when.

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<v Speaker 2>She goes about you know I was pregnant. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>knew what happened. And at the beginning of that episode,

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<v Speaker 2>before even halpened, I go, I get why that matters

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<v Speaker 2>because I thought it was just like a regular random

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<v Speaker 2>scene that I was to laugh at. It was the

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<v Speaker 2>whole point of the fucking show. Yes, and I knew,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was so bummed, like Vince gasped and I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to.

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<v Speaker 1>Guess to And also the danger of when we get

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<v Speaker 1>all this stuff through social media, you can't control that

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<v Speaker 1>someone's about to give you a spoiler, as we do

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<v Speaker 1>on this show constantly.

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<v Speaker 2>That wasn't a spoiler and you should totally watch it.

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<v Speaker 1>But but I mean, like you that there's a backwards

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<v Speaker 1>way that like I always seem to end up consuming

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<v Speaker 1>like a TV show. The way I hate the most,

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<v Speaker 1>which is you know all the big moments before you

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<v Speaker 1>go in, then you're kind of judging. You have to

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<v Speaker 1>see them at that point you know the story, right.

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<v Speaker 1>But I would argue that with Widow's Bay, they're doing

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<v Speaker 1>so much. They work so hard to easter egg and storyline.

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<v Speaker 1>I watched a woman lay out this whole idea, and

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<v Speaker 1>we will in our social media, we'll post her video

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<v Speaker 1>and we will give her the full credit because it's

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<v Speaker 1>a really brilliant thing she noticed, which is that time

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<v Speaker 1>is all screwed up in Widow's Bay, like the calendar

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<v Speaker 1>as a car accident on us, and that in her theory,

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<v Speaker 1>she's like, actually, lead, these three episodes all happened in

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<v Speaker 1>one day, but you don't realize it. If you think

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<v Speaker 1>about it, you can't tell when a thing is actually happening.

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<v Speaker 1>You're not sure. And she introduced all these kind of

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<v Speaker 1>doubts about, oh, that's right in the time where he's

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<v Speaker 1>got the wolves calendar, but then he opens the month

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<v Speaker 1>that they're in and it's the car accident, so random,

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<v Speaker 1>like there's so many easter eggs about you assume you

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<v Speaker 1>think you know what's going on and how, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>going to start like it's what's the comedian's name who

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<v Speaker 1>plays the shaman?

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<v Speaker 2>It's just like the best, Oh, Chris Fleming, it's just

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<v Speaker 2>the best, you know, five minutes of TV.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so good, Chris Fleming, He's so perfect. It's okay,

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<v Speaker 1>just drink it slowly, he goes. I just understand.

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<v Speaker 2>This is not it should be a Widow's Bay Rewatch podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Just for the next four years we turn it into

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<v Speaker 1>you have a true crime update. There's a true crime update,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's just plain good news, which when in the

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<v Speaker 1>ten years we've been doing this podcast, as that ever happens. Rex,

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<v Speaker 1>the Gilgo Beach murderer, on Wednesday, June seventeenth, was sentenced

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<v Speaker 1>to life in prison without the possibility of parole for

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<v Speaker 1>the murders of Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelemy Amberlyn Costello, Maureen

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<v Speaker 1>Brainerd Barnes, Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, Sandra Cristia and Karen Vergatta.

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<v Speaker 1>And he initially denied these charges and he was set

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<v Speaker 1>to go to trial, but basically he changed his plea

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<v Speaker 1>to guilty in April, and now he is in jail.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I'm glad that is over with and he

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<v Speaker 2>can go rotten.

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<v Speaker 1>Hell. Yeah. Wow. It's always strange when it ends and

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<v Speaker 1>you know the reality and it is the big ghost,

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<v Speaker 1>the big monster, that mysterious monster is just some horrible man.

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<v Speaker 2>Some small little man, the coward. Yeah, that's why I

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<v Speaker 2>love cold cases. It's like, let's not make them this big,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, powerful being.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just some fucking dad.

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<v Speaker 2>From Long Island who sucks you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, not good. Okay, should we get into it?

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<v Speaker 1>You mean talk about our network? Sure?

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, we have a podcast network. It's called exactly right Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Here are some headlines.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's here's some headlights. Nope, here are some highlights. Here's

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<v Speaker 1>some highlights. This week on our podcast Bananas Curtain, Scottie

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<v Speaker 1>discuss whether all the water on Earth has already been

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<v Speaker 1>peed in. They talk about a world cut trophy bong

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<v Speaker 1>that landed a headshop in legal trouble and everything between

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<v Speaker 1>and then over.

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<v Speaker 2>On Ghosted, Roz is joined by comedian and Taro queen

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<v Speaker 2>our friend Lizzie Cooperman. They shuffle the cards while discussing

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<v Speaker 2>Yes No Later, manifestations, hermit Crabs, and one lingering question,

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<v Speaker 2>when will Roz.

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<v Speaker 1>Become more famous? Well, we kind of have the answer

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<v Speaker 1>to that right because Roz just released her new audio book.

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<v Speaker 1>It is her memoir and it's entitled Peeing in an

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<v Speaker 1>Empty Bottle and Other Glamorous Shenanigans of an almost famous

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<v Speaker 1>transgender comedian on the Road, and that book is out now.

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<v Speaker 1>It blends stories obviously from her cross country comedy tour

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<v Speaker 1>with exclusive stand up and behind the scenes audio. So

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to support Roz, she is an incredible

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<v Speaker 1>stand upcomic, hilarious podcaster. We love her obviously member of

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<v Speaker 1>our family here, but also just like an entertainer to

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<v Speaker 1>beat the.

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<v Speaker 2>Band, Rosca is gonna be great, ros Hernandez find it then.

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<v Speaker 2>This week on trust Me, Lola and Megan are joined

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<v Speaker 2>by doctor Christine Marie, Lola's mom.

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<v Speaker 1>Who was also the podcast's very first guest.

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<v Speaker 2>She shares how she went undercover with the FBI to

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<v Speaker 2>help bring down self proclaimed profit Sam Bateman. So if

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<v Speaker 2>you watch Trust Me on Netflix, this is what we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about. And you can also watch the full video

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<v Speaker 2>episode now at YouTube dot com. Slash exactly right.

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<v Speaker 1>Media. Karen goes first. So my story today begins on

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<v Speaker 1>March first, seventeen seventy eight. Are you ready? No, so

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<v Speaker 1>long ago, so long ago. We're talking about an area

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<v Speaker 1>that I truly and literally know almost nothing about except

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<v Speaker 1>for this story, which is the Revolutionary War era of America.

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<v Speaker 1>Got it. I know that you can't correct me in it,

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<v Speaker 1>any of these mistakes I'm about to make right now.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why we do this podcast together again. My excuse

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<v Speaker 1>is that I changed schools fifth to sixth grade. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's got it. Yeah, that's hard. They learned about stuff

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<v Speaker 1>like that in the fifth grade at my new school

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<v Speaker 1>and in the sixth grade at my old school. We're

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<v Speaker 1>preaching to the choir Roman numerals. I was sick that day.

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<v Speaker 1>All the presidents not my business, none of my business,

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<v Speaker 1>not really never brought up. I didn't vote for them.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't get to see pictures of them all around

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<v Speaker 1>the walls all year long. Okay, So March first, seventeen

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<v Speaker 1>seventy eight, we are in Brookfield, Massachusetts, west of Woosta,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's a snowy night around nine o'clock. Most of

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<v Speaker 1>the locals in Brookfield are either at home sitting in

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<v Speaker 1>front of the fire, or they've already gotten into bed

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<v Speaker 1>under their thick quilts and blankets because it's so cold outside.

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<v Speaker 1>But a local, wealthy, local businessman, thirty seven year old

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<v Speaker 1>Joshua Spooner, he's outside in the elements because he spent

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<v Speaker 1>the last few hours at the local tavern and now

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<v Speaker 1>he's making the quarter mile walk home down Brookfield's main road.

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<v Speaker 1>It's dark outside, almost no moonlight. He's holding a lantern

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<v Speaker 1>because this is old fashioned times and that's required at night.

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<v Speaker 1>So choky, right man, Hello, Hello, And first the beginning

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<v Speaker 1>of his walk, he is with his friend, doctor Jonathan King,

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<v Speaker 1>who is the town's physician. The doctor splits off in

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<v Speaker 1>the direction of his house when they come to the

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<v Speaker 1>fork in the road, and then Joshua continues on by himself,

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<v Speaker 1>eventually making it to his very stately two story home,

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<v Speaker 1>which is one of the nicest in Brookfield. He climbs

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<v Speaker 1>a set of stone steps that take him from the

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<v Speaker 1>street up onto his property. He unlatches his front gate,

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<v Speaker 1>and then he heads back toward one of the back

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<v Speaker 1>entrances of the house. He never makes it inside. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>Joshua Spooner's body will be discovered, beaten, strangled, and stuffed

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<v Speaker 1>down his well. What Yes, this is the story of

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<v Speaker 1>the murder of Joshua Spooner, which is one of the

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<v Speaker 1>very first high profile murder cases in America. Dude, seventeen

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<v Speaker 1>seventy eight, at that vintage murder, right, happy fourth of July,

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<v Speaker 1>eary budd, that's right. While we are lighting off firecrackers

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<v Speaker 1>and trying to dissociate, let's remember how this country started

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<v Speaker 1>with extreme violence on a day to day basis. True

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<v Speaker 1>crime isn't new now. The main source of today's story

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<v Speaker 1>is the research and writing of Deborah Novice, and the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of the sources are in our show notes. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's seventeen seventy eight. Only two years have passed since

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<v Speaker 1>the signing of the Declaration of Independence. We're in deep

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<v Speaker 1>early history for us, kind of nauseating. It feels like

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<v Speaker 1>you haven't eaten lunch, but you have to listen to

0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:50.400
<v Speaker 1>the teacher, keep talking. The Revolutionary War has continued and

0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.120
<v Speaker 1>will continue for five more years. It's been going for

0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:56.160
<v Speaker 1>about two and a half three So the American Revolution

0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.760
<v Speaker 1>is the backdrop for this whole case. The colonies are

0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:03.080
<v Speaker 1>fear divided at this time between patriots and loyalists, and

0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Joshua Spooner, this murder victim, was a supporter of the

0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Patriot cause. That cause is especially strong and well supported

0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.040
<v Speaker 1>in New England. At this point in the Revolutionary War,

0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.959
<v Speaker 1>British leadership has been driven out of Massachusetts. The colony

0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.840
<v Speaker 1>is now governed by Revolutionary leaders. One of the highest

0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:26.880
<v Speaker 1>ranking officials is Joshua's stepbrother, a man named John Avery Junior.

0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.679
<v Speaker 1>So the problem is, Joshua has a prominent loyalist in

0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:35.320
<v Speaker 1>his family. His father in law, Brigadier General Timothy Ruggles

0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:40.320
<v Speaker 1>cute right, little Timmy Ruggles Kins. His father in law

0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:45.160
<v Speaker 1>his wife's Bathsheba's father. So Bathsheba Ruggles is the woman

0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.959
<v Speaker 1>that Joshua's married. Joshua Spooner, bring that name back, Bathsheba,

0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.440
<v Speaker 1>You're in witch. You're immediately a witch. You're a witch

0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:54.760
<v Speaker 1>er your Bible lady, congratulations, like one of two things

0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:59.480
<v Speaker 1>in this story which so before the revolution, Timothy Ruggles

0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:01.640
<v Speaker 1>was a very powerful man. He held a bunch of

0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:06.200
<v Speaker 1>important political posts in Massachusetts while under British rule. So

0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:10.280
<v Speaker 1>when the revolution started, colonists began to embrace the Patriot cause.

0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:15.319
<v Speaker 1>Timothy Ruggles stays committed to the British Crown. Huge mistake

0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:20.040
<v Speaker 1>in Worcesta. So in the mid seventeen seventies, Timothy Ruggles

0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.160
<v Speaker 1>goes to New York to join the British Army.

0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.600
<v Speaker 2>That's how much he commits, literally wrong side of history.

0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:29.360
<v Speaker 1>Bra read the fucking room, dude of Massachusetts. It's a

0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:33.120
<v Speaker 1>room as wide as Massachusetts. So obviously bad for his

0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.959
<v Speaker 1>reputation in New England. So soon Timothy Ruggles is considered

0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.719
<v Speaker 1>one of the most despised political figures in revolutionary massachuests

0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:44.960
<v Speaker 1>who so would you compare him to these days? Donald Trump?

0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:52.000
<v Speaker 1>May sounds right? So this was that a little too fast.

0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.520
<v Speaker 1>So all of this has created serious tension in the

0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:59.800
<v Speaker 1>Spooner household between Joshua and his wife, Bathsheba. She is

0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:02.400
<v Speaker 1>very very close with her father, Timothy Ruggles, and there

0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.480
<v Speaker 1>are four Ruggles daughters, but Bathsheba has always been known

0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.520
<v Speaker 1>to be her father's favorite. She's also suspected of sharing

0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:12.360
<v Speaker 1>his political leanings. So when he leaves town basically to

0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:16.000
<v Speaker 1>join with the British, Joshua forbids his wife from having

0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:19.400
<v Speaker 1>any communication with her disgrace turn coat father, and of

0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:21.680
<v Speaker 1>course she is devastated you.

0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Got have discussed politics before you get married. I mean,

0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:25.520
<v Speaker 2>I can get on the same.

0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:29.120
<v Speaker 1>Page before you get Well, here's the real gossip about

0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:34.080
<v Speaker 1>this story is that this relationship has never been good. Okay,

0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:38.600
<v Speaker 1>it was basically engineered in seventeen sixty six as a

0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:43.240
<v Speaker 1>political arrangement hashed out by their wealthy fathers. Timothy saw

0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.760
<v Speaker 1>the political writing on the wall and he knew his

0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:50.720
<v Speaker 1>loyalist sympathies could someday cause harm to his beloved Bathsheba.

0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:52.600
<v Speaker 2>And I was kidding about that because women don't get

0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.440
<v Speaker 2>to choose their politics or their husbands back then. So

0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.080
<v Speaker 2>discussing politics before you get married, he designing if you

0:14:58.120 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 2>want to marry them or not is not an option?

0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.560
<v Speaker 1>Not being serious, No, no, no, it's not only not an option.

0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.680
<v Speaker 1>It was literally like, how dare you? You couldn't suggest

0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:09.200
<v Speaker 1>that you would be backhanded and told to go make

0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:12.440
<v Speaker 1>a sandwich, right and then you have sliced bread. So

0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.000
<v Speaker 1>imagine that. I mean back before the internet, they were

0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 1>still doing that. So when Bathsheba was around twenty years old,

0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.360
<v Speaker 1>she was married off into the Spooner family, who were

0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:27.040
<v Speaker 1>wealthy Boston merchants. Because basically Timothy ruggles knew his daughter

0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:31.000
<v Speaker 1>would be protected socially and financially. But both Joshua and

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:36.080
<v Speaker 1>Bathsheba grew up incredibly privileged in aristocratic families. They both

0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.520
<v Speaker 1>had generational power, and Bathsheba is roundly described to be

0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:44.640
<v Speaker 1>exceptionally beautiful. Josh meanwhile, is a successful lumberman. So there's

0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.240
<v Speaker 1>on paper they were supposed to make a perfect couple, right,

0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:52.200
<v Speaker 1>she brings all the gorgeousness, he's money. In reality, they're

0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:56.760
<v Speaker 1>just a miserable pair because despite the gender norms dictating quiet,

0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:01.120
<v Speaker 1>dutiful wives of the time, Bathsheba is headstrong. She's rash,

0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.040
<v Speaker 1>and she is free spirited, and she's said to have

0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:12.320
<v Speaker 1>quote passions that have never been properly restrained. Same and right. Yeah. Meanwhile, Joshua,

0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 1>her husband, is described in old records as quote frequently drunk.

0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.600
<v Speaker 1>There you go, right. He's also unfaithful to his wife.

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:23.080
<v Speaker 1>He is suspected of being physically abusive to his wife.

0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.280
<v Speaker 1>And one of the few surviving direct quotes we have

0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:30.920
<v Speaker 1>from either spooner is one where Bathsheba describes her feelings

0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:35.120
<v Speaker 1>about her husband with just two words utter aversion.

0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.200
<v Speaker 2>So she would have said same after always drunk, like

0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.320
<v Speaker 2>I would have been soaked. Do it again, go again.

0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:44.160
<v Speaker 1>And he is described in old records as quote frequently drunk.

0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:51.760
<v Speaker 1>Same by seventeen seventy thank you, thank you for indulgent. Yeah,

0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.720
<v Speaker 1>it's fun. Yet the couple has, as were the practices

0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:59.440
<v Speaker 1>of the times, the couple has four children together, bummer.

0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.480
<v Speaker 1>Only three of those children survive to adulthood, and years later,

0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.879
<v Speaker 1>one of the adult spooner sons will be heard calling

0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:11.520
<v Speaker 1>his father quote old bogus, ooh, yeah, she's like such

0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:15.080
<v Speaker 1>an insult back then, such an eighteenth century dig that

0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:19.840
<v Speaker 1>historians say suggests his children did not respect him very much.

0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:22.760
<v Speaker 1>So by seventeen seventy seven, it's been more than a

0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:27.000
<v Speaker 1>decade into this miserable marriage, and the relationship is as

0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.120
<v Speaker 1>bad as it will ever be. They detest each other.

0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.600
<v Speaker 1>But on top of that, Bathsheba is struggling terribly personally.

0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.640
<v Speaker 1>She's isolated because she has to hide at home because

0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.360
<v Speaker 1>her father is such a pariah.

0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:39.760
<v Speaker 2>Yea.

0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.760
<v Speaker 1>But then hiding at home, she's there with this miserable marriage,

0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.919
<v Speaker 1>no support, you know, so many kids, so many kids.

0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.280
<v Speaker 1>So in March of that year, a stranger is passing

0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:52.240
<v Speaker 1>by the front of the spooner home, and it's a

0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.520
<v Speaker 1>Continental soldier who's just completed a year of service in

0:17:55.600 --> 0:18:00.359
<v Speaker 1>George Washington's army. And this is how cinemax start. That's

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:04.520
<v Speaker 1>the first cinemax kick in those saxophones from the Revolutionary

0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.199
<v Speaker 1>or Derek Pictures? Was he hot? We don't have pictures

0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.520
<v Speaker 1>of the Continental Soldier. I'm about to tell you this

0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.280
<v Speaker 1>picture who Jacob Alordie. Let me give you a little

0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.600
<v Speaker 1>more information, okay, and then we're going to cast him

0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:22.440
<v Speaker 1>because his name is Ezra Ross and he's sixteen years old. Okay, everyone,

0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.920
<v Speaker 1>how old is? She's just grown? He's thirty two. Okay,

0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:30.600
<v Speaker 1>that's illegal. It is illegal. I'm not sure a colonial law.

0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.400
<v Speaker 1>So as we go, you can maybe think about who

0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.720
<v Speaker 1>could be cast as a sixteen year old? What do

0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:35.919
<v Speaker 1>you know?

0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.800
<v Speaker 2>He's aa, I feel like he would be. He's casting everything. Yes,

0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.320
<v Speaker 2>he looks like a teenager, very true, But.

0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Like, how old are your nephews? Who's Mike is sixteen? Yeah? Okay?

0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.720
<v Speaker 1>Oh gross? Right? Oh gross? Yeah? The reality of a

0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.720
<v Speaker 1>sixteen year old no as opposed to a shalome? Right,

0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.719
<v Speaker 1>So it's so funny. Okay, So he's on break between

0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.240
<v Speaker 1>military duties walking by. He was in a new here's

0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:04.200
<v Speaker 1>the army encampment, and he has to walk home to Ipswich, Massachusetts,

0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.200
<v Speaker 1>which is essentially a three hundred mile walk round trip.

0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Bro Hitchhiking wasn't invented yet because the cart's right, it's

0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.520
<v Speaker 1>too slow, right, they just knock you off. Also, it's

0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:20.040
<v Speaker 1>the winter, right, so it's worst case scenario for this

0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.679
<v Speaker 1>young soldier. And to complicate it even more, he's dealing

0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.399
<v Speaker 1>with the lingering effects of what was probably the flu

0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.440
<v Speaker 1>that he caught at camp. So he's on a long

0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:33.240
<v Speaker 1>winter walk kind of getting over a bad flu. It's

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.840
<v Speaker 1>unclear whether he approached the Spooner House out of desperation

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.000
<v Speaker 1>or whether somebody in the Spooner House saw him passing

0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.960
<v Speaker 1>and realized he needed help. Either way, the Spooners welcome

0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:47.640
<v Speaker 1>Ezra into their home. The sick young man is put

0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.240
<v Speaker 1>to bed Bathsheba begins to nurse him back to hell,

0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:51.880
<v Speaker 1>feeding him and tending to him.

0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:53.240
<v Speaker 2>In what side is he and he's not on the

0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:54.120
<v Speaker 2>British side.

0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.480
<v Speaker 1>He's the American side, right, yeah, So it's like it's

0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:58.840
<v Speaker 1>like forbidden for her too, because like her dad is

0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:02.199
<v Speaker 1>super and the British. Yeah, you know, she's like, not

0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.760
<v Speaker 1>what sixteen? Fuck man, it just keeps getting ruined. It's

0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.680
<v Speaker 1>so ruined. But it also it's like it's a sixteen

0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:10.920
<v Speaker 1>year old. She's just being asked to live like a man.

0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.280
<v Speaker 1>So there is that might help it a little more,

0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.800
<v Speaker 1>that he is actually taking on the horrors and responsibilities

0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.480
<v Speaker 1>of being in the army and fighting a war. If

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:21.879
<v Speaker 1>only he were twenty. But he does have the lama

0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:23.639
<v Speaker 1>curl at the front of his hair, the way all

0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:25.920
<v Speaker 1>the sixteen year olds do these days.

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:31.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Oh so sorry, wow, really pop that so loud?

0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Taking in soldiers who are walking long distances after

0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:40.240
<v Speaker 1>military stints is not uncommon in revolutionary war times. What

0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.800
<v Speaker 1>sets this encounter apart is that that time it takes

0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.560
<v Speaker 1>for Ezra, almost said Timothy Chalamey. That time it takes

0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.240
<v Speaker 1>for Ezra to recover. We don't know exactly how long

0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:51.960
<v Speaker 1>it is. We can assume it was at least a

0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:55.160
<v Speaker 1>couple of weeks, because he has to, you know, fully

0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:58.360
<v Speaker 1>recover whatever. But in that time, thirty one year old

0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Bathsheba Spooner, this adolescent soldier, develop what a tasteful person

0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:08.720
<v Speaker 1>would call a uniquely strong bond. But what we can all,

0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:14.240
<v Speaker 1>maybe in our Bravo minds, assume, was fucking so the

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.800
<v Speaker 1>age difference. We don't want to be calling things affairs

0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.840
<v Speaker 1>like that. Yeah, right, And also just let's not spend

0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:23.119
<v Speaker 1>the time getting into all that discussion. Here's what we know.

0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:26.800
<v Speaker 1>It's unclear if they start by having a physical affair.

0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:30.400
<v Speaker 1>They have definitely started an emotional affair though, and it's

0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:33.280
<v Speaker 1>a secret, which makes it even hotter. No one has

0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:36.399
<v Speaker 1>any idea what's going on, especially Joshua Spooner, who has

0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:40.000
<v Speaker 1>actually developed his own friendship with Ezra. So Ezra playing

0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:43.240
<v Speaker 1>both sides, that's right, and getting some soup while he

0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.320
<v Speaker 1>on his long journey home doing what he's got to do.

0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:50.080
<v Speaker 1>At some point, Ezra's health improves enough so that the

0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:52.879
<v Speaker 1>Spooner send him back on the road to Ipswich, but

0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:57.439
<v Speaker 1>he never forgets Passheba within a month, thirty one year

0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:00.520
<v Speaker 1>old woman, some hot milf. That's like, let me take care.

0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:04.280
<v Speaker 1>He's like, I'll be seeing you within weeks. I'm sorry.

0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Within months, he's called back to military service. But then

0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:10.679
<v Speaker 1>when he gets leave, he comes and visits the Spooners

0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:14.280
<v Speaker 1>in Brookfield. So it's a little less than a year

0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:18.240
<v Speaker 1>later now January seventeen seventy eight, and Bathsheba has news

0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:21.440
<v Speaker 1>for Ezra. On his next visit, he comes to see

0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:24.359
<v Speaker 1>the spooners and she pulls him aside and is like,

0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:29.400
<v Speaker 1>I bregged it. Oh shit, uh huh, Now I wanted

0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:31.240
<v Speaker 1>to act that up for I loved it. She yanks

0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:32.840
<v Speaker 1>him into the pantry and then has to push him

0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:37.120
<v Speaker 1>Ba out because they have to act normal. So it's

0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.760
<v Speaker 1>assumed by historians that given her like on the record

0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:44.960
<v Speaker 1>utter aversion with her husband, that they weren't probably having sex,

0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:47.640
<v Speaker 1>and that probably Ezra is the father of this baby.

0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Bathsheba's definitely panicked, and writer Debora Novas puts it this

0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.919
<v Speaker 1>way quote divorces were all but impossible for women in

0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:59.840
<v Speaker 1>revolutionary America, and adulteresses were stripped to the waist and

0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:05.120
<v Speaker 1>publicly whipped Jesus, so she is truly panicking. During one

0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:08.880
<v Speaker 1>of Ezra's visits, Bathsheba asks him to poison her husband

0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:14.040
<v Speaker 1>with aquafortis or also known as nitric acid. It's an

0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:19.600
<v Speaker 1>extremely corrosive acid used to dissolve tough materials like metal,

0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:23.360
<v Speaker 1>and unlike other poisons from these old stories like arsenic

0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.800
<v Speaker 1>Aquafortis has an incredibly strong and very terrible taste, so

0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:31.760
<v Speaker 1>it's a bad idea to use to begin with. But

0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Ezra's just a sophomore in love with having sex with

0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:37.440
<v Speaker 1>an old lady, so he does it. He's like, sounds

0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:42.320
<v Speaker 1>good to me. He poisons Joshua's drink. So problem is,

0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:44.720
<v Speaker 1>when Joshua takes a sip of that drink, it's literally

0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:49.639
<v Speaker 1>like who put gasoline in my tea? He immediately tastes

0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:54.000
<v Speaker 1>the poison, spits out the mouthful, dumps the drink. So

0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:57.560
<v Speaker 1>then basically, for the rest of Ezra's stay, he keeps

0:23:57.560 --> 0:24:00.800
<v Speaker 1>trying to poison Joshua and can't get it done. Oh folly,

0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:04.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean right, the hilarious back and forth of all

0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:06.040
<v Speaker 1>the things that Ezra has to spit out and be like,

0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:10.520
<v Speaker 1>I this taste is driving me crazy. So basically, by

0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:13.600
<v Speaker 1>the end, Ezra gets cold feet about this whole scheme.

0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:17.199
<v Speaker 1>His visit ends without a poisoning taking place, and he

0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:22.600
<v Speaker 1>leaves Bathsheba to carry out that plan for herself. So

0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:25.960
<v Speaker 1>a few weeks later, February seventeen seventy eight, Joshua is

0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:30.399
<v Speaker 1>away on a business trip. Bathsheba spots two British soldiers

0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:33.720
<v Speaker 1>passing by the front of the house. They are Private

0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:37.480
<v Speaker 1>William Brooks, who's in his late twenties and Sergeant James Buchanan,

0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:39.560
<v Speaker 1>who is in his mid thirties. Okay, so we're age

0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:44.120
<v Speaker 1>appropriate now now, yes, we're getting into some adults involving adults.

0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Basheba sends out one of her workers basically to intercept

0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:51.200
<v Speaker 1>them and offer them a place to sleep and food

0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:55.439
<v Speaker 1>to eat, and they're very grateful to come inside. And

0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:59.280
<v Speaker 1>when they do, Basheba learns they're British deserters who are

0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:02.919
<v Speaker 1>trying to get home by way of Canada. So basically

0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:07.439
<v Speaker 1>they're just trying to escape America alive to get home. So,

0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:12.640
<v Speaker 1>sensing her opportunity, Bathsheba offers them clothing in cash if

0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:14.800
<v Speaker 1>they kill her husband when he comes back from his

0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:18.400
<v Speaker 1>business dresses. Some sources say she offers them one thousand

0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:22.560
<v Speaker 1>dollars wow, which in today's money from seventeen seventy eight

0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:27.280
<v Speaker 1>to twenty twenty six, twelve thousand, twenty five thousand, there's

0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:29.280
<v Speaker 1>a lot of money. That's a lot of money. So

0:25:29.320 --> 0:25:34.680
<v Speaker 1>they accept, and when they do, Bathsheba writes to Ezra, hey,

0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:38.200
<v Speaker 1>when you graduate from High School come back here because

0:25:38.240 --> 0:25:42.720
<v Speaker 1>the plan is afoot So by the time Joshua Spooner

0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:46.120
<v Speaker 1>gets back from his business trip to Brookfield, these British

0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:48.600
<v Speaker 1>soldiers have been staying in their house in the Spooner

0:25:48.640 --> 0:25:51.439
<v Speaker 1>House for more than a week, sleeping in nice beds,

0:25:51.520 --> 0:25:54.920
<v Speaker 1>eating great food whenever they want, running up an enormous

0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:58.760
<v Speaker 1>tab at the local tavern under Joshua Spooner's name the

0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:02.119
<v Speaker 1>whole nine. Joshua finds this out. He's irate at his

0:26:02.160 --> 0:26:04.800
<v Speaker 1>wife for letting these British soldiers into their home. He

0:26:04.920 --> 0:26:08.160
<v Speaker 1>kicks them out, but William and James don't go anywhere.

0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:11.679
<v Speaker 1>They just hang around town lurkin laying low, waiting for

0:26:11.760 --> 0:26:15.359
<v Speaker 1>the opportunity to strike. And then, on February twenty eighth,

0:26:15.440 --> 0:26:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Ezra Ross quietly arrives back in Brookfield and joins up

0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:22.520
<v Speaker 1>with the two British soldiers. This and now we're back

0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:24.560
<v Speaker 1>to the day this all started, which is the cold

0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:27.560
<v Speaker 1>dark knight of March first, and thirty seven year old

0:26:27.640 --> 0:26:31.800
<v Speaker 1>Joshua Spooner just arriving from home from the tavern around

0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:34.879
<v Speaker 1>nine o'clock that night, he goes on to his property.

0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:38.040
<v Speaker 1>He approaches the back entrance and that's where Ezra, William

0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:41.400
<v Speaker 1>and James appear out of the darkness and ambush him.

0:26:41.960 --> 0:26:45.760
<v Speaker 1>They beat him and they strangle him to death. Jesus.

0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:48.359
<v Speaker 1>Then they carry his body over to the well and

0:26:48.400 --> 0:26:51.800
<v Speaker 1>they throw him down into it headfirst. And the idea

0:26:52.040 --> 0:26:55.200
<v Speaker 1>is that because Joshua has a reputation for heavy drinking,

0:26:55.600 --> 0:26:59.240
<v Speaker 1>people will think he accidentally stumbled and fell into the well.

0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:02.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, from a fall. It just all of it

0:27:03.320 --> 0:27:06.120
<v Speaker 1>in our forensic files. I know how these days it's

0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:09.159
<v Speaker 1>like U Rubes from the Revolutionary War. You don't know

0:27:09.160 --> 0:27:12.080
<v Speaker 1>how to murder. But also I love the idea of

0:27:12.200 --> 0:27:16.000
<v Speaker 1>like the odds of a drunk person stumbling and falling

0:27:16.040 --> 0:27:21.120
<v Speaker 1>into a hole smaller than really their own shoulder probably

0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:26.320
<v Speaker 1>or the same size. Don't go toward the hole you're falling, Okay.

0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:30.000
<v Speaker 1>So before they do drop Joshua's body into the well,

0:27:30.080 --> 0:27:33.520
<v Speaker 1>they take his fancy watch, his ring, his silver shoe

0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:37.679
<v Speaker 1>buckles which have his initials engraved on them, and like

0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:40.879
<v Speaker 1>basically keep it for themselves. Then when they're done, they

0:27:40.960 --> 0:27:44.719
<v Speaker 1>go into the house where Bathsheba Spooner is waiting. James

0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Buchanan will later testify that she seemed quote utterly confused,

0:27:49.560 --> 0:27:52.440
<v Speaker 1>which could imply a state of shock, or some historians

0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:56.200
<v Speaker 1>have wondered the throes of an undiagnosed mental health crisis.

0:27:56.840 --> 0:28:00.160
<v Speaker 1>That's basically kind of like at its apex with this

0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:03.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, horrible event. She gives the men a thick

0:28:03.440 --> 0:28:05.959
<v Speaker 1>stack of cash as well as a few pieces of clothing.

0:28:06.080 --> 0:28:07.760
<v Speaker 1>Not so confused that she doesn't pay them off from

0:28:07.800 --> 0:28:11.919
<v Speaker 1>killing her husband. She's not catatonic, Yeah, exactly, She's like,

0:28:12.200 --> 0:28:15.199
<v Speaker 1>I can't deal with this. Nine to ten, that's it

0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:18.480
<v Speaker 1>for you. And she also gives them clothes from Joshua's closet,

0:28:19.000 --> 0:28:22.000
<v Speaker 1>so she's in on the on the cover up so confusing.

0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:25.080
<v Speaker 1>You can take his vest and his boots. At around

0:28:25.119 --> 0:28:29.440
<v Speaker 1>eleven o'clock, Ezra, William and James, all wearing Joshua's clothes,

0:28:29.560 --> 0:28:34.240
<v Speaker 1>riding his horses or the Spooner's horses, skipped town had

0:28:34.480 --> 0:28:37.879
<v Speaker 1>twenty miles out toward of course, the star of this

0:28:38.000 --> 0:28:42.520
<v Speaker 1>show Wista. They arrive at an inn around four am.

0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:46.080
<v Speaker 1>Of course, the innkeepers immediately sent somethings off. Yeah, don't

0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:48.360
<v Speaker 1>go at four am, wait till nine in the morning,

0:28:48.520 --> 0:28:50.800
<v Speaker 1>middle of the night, with big silver bubbles on your

0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:53.400
<v Speaker 1>fucking my clothes that don't fit you correctly? What, yeah,

0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.600
<v Speaker 1>like streaks of mud on your cheeks. Yeah, and of

0:28:56.640 --> 0:28:58.440
<v Speaker 1>course acting very very strangely.

0:28:58.760 --> 0:29:00.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna say, paying in cash, but they didn't have

0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:02.040
<v Speaker 2>any other way to pay back then.

0:29:02.160 --> 0:29:08.440
<v Speaker 1>Back then there's no cards, no gift cards, no tabs, right,

0:29:08.440 --> 0:29:11.880
<v Speaker 1>hanging dirty dirty cash. Yeah, I guess gold. Do they

0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:13.960
<v Speaker 1>pay gold? Yeah? But I think that would count as cash,

0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:17.120
<v Speaker 1>it wouldn't stand out as much. So. Writer Debora Nava

0:29:17.200 --> 0:29:21.480
<v Speaker 1>suggests that all of these actors in this murder are

0:29:21.520 --> 0:29:24.520
<v Speaker 1>dealing with their guilt and their regret, and then it's

0:29:24.560 --> 0:29:27.720
<v Speaker 1>just coming out in their own ways. So Ezra's despondent,

0:29:27.880 --> 0:29:31.320
<v Speaker 1>he refuses to give the innkeepers his name. He immediately

0:29:31.360 --> 0:29:34.480
<v Speaker 1>isolates himself in a bedroom church of just the funniest

0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:39.280
<v Speaker 1>eye roll to me, like she hates Ezra so much. Sorry,

0:29:39.920 --> 0:29:40.720
<v Speaker 1>of course he does.

0:29:40.760 --> 0:29:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Like you fucking did the crime, yep, and now like

0:29:43.920 --> 0:29:46.280
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't matter how horrible you feel afterwards.

0:29:46.360 --> 0:29:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Yes, you got all high on like being in the

0:29:48.920 --> 0:29:50.720
<v Speaker 1>murder group, right, and then.

0:29:50.840 --> 0:29:52.720
<v Speaker 2>Like they could have probably done it without you, bro,

0:29:52.880 --> 0:29:54.920
<v Speaker 2>but she wanted to prove your sixteen year old ass

0:29:54.920 --> 0:29:56.480
<v Speaker 2>to your fucking thirty one year old lover.

0:29:56.840 --> 0:29:59.880
<v Speaker 1>Yes, he had a hot milk lover. He was willing

0:29:59.920 --> 0:30:03.800
<v Speaker 1>to to go the distance, but now he's despondent and listener,

0:30:03.840 --> 0:30:06.520
<v Speaker 1>we're just telling you that's how it always goes, whether

0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:10.440
<v Speaker 1>it's murder or just taking people to weddings. Yeah, it's

0:30:10.520 --> 0:30:14.240
<v Speaker 1>on your permanent record, that nerd and you spending time

0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:17.280
<v Speaker 1>with them. He's in the photos. Your family talks about it. Okay.

0:30:17.680 --> 0:30:19.720
<v Speaker 1>William and James, on the other hand, immediately go to

0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:23.280
<v Speaker 1>the inns tavern by alcohol and just start drinking their

0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:25.400
<v Speaker 1>way into the early daylight hours.

0:30:25.520 --> 0:30:29.120
<v Speaker 2>That's the way to deal with your regret, except for

0:30:29.160 --> 0:30:29.640
<v Speaker 2>an adult.

0:30:29.920 --> 0:30:32.320
<v Speaker 1>Except for they wear the silver shoe buckles and the

0:30:32.400 --> 0:30:35.080
<v Speaker 1>jewelry and the clothing, so they couldn't be drawing more

0:30:35.080 --> 0:30:37.360
<v Speaker 1>attention to themselves as they're trying to have a nice

0:30:37.800 --> 0:30:40.840
<v Speaker 1>escape from reality drink. So the average person in the

0:30:40.840 --> 0:30:44.040
<v Speaker 1>colonies would just never have the wealth to afford silver

0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:47.200
<v Speaker 1>shoe buckles with their own engraved initials on them or whatever,

0:30:47.760 --> 0:30:50.240
<v Speaker 1>especially not a pair of British deserters, which I'm sure

0:30:50.240 --> 0:30:53.880
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of pretty obvious right away. So by the afternoon,

0:30:53.920 --> 0:30:58.200
<v Speaker 1>the men have raised so much suspicion, the authorities are notified. Meanwhile,

0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:01.160
<v Speaker 1>back in Brookfield, there's all ready a swirl of suspicion

0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:04.280
<v Speaker 1>around Bathsheba because she, of course, the very next day

0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:08.000
<v Speaker 1>had morning visitors because she's the lady of the you know,

0:31:08.160 --> 0:31:10.760
<v Speaker 1>of the elite. And when they show up and ask

0:31:10.800 --> 0:31:14.120
<v Speaker 1>where Joshua is, she just burst into tears. So they're

0:31:14.160 --> 0:31:15.920
<v Speaker 1>just kind of like, are you okay? And they start

0:31:15.960 --> 0:31:18.880
<v Speaker 1>looking for him, and they find his body in the well.

0:31:19.480 --> 0:31:21.600
<v Speaker 1>Ladies who were just there for some nice tea and

0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:25.160
<v Speaker 1>tiny sandwiches and suddenly they're like, we just found your

0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:28.640
<v Speaker 1>husband dead. They're like, is mercury and retrograde or what?

0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:32.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm having a bad day. So Joshua's body is pulled

0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:34.800
<v Speaker 1>from the well. Doctor Jonathan King, his friend who was

0:31:34.840 --> 0:31:37.120
<v Speaker 1>walking home with him the night before from the tavern.

0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:40.840
<v Speaker 1>He shows up to examine the corpse, and he notes

0:31:40.880 --> 0:31:44.640
<v Speaker 1>the signs of strangulation and injuries consistent with being beaten.

0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:48.720
<v Speaker 1>He testifies later that Joshua hadn't seemed all that drunk

0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:51.520
<v Speaker 1>when they left the tavern and walked home together. Pretty

0:31:51.520 --> 0:31:54.640
<v Speaker 1>crucial element to this story, and that's of course in

0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:57.840
<v Speaker 1>direct contrast to the idea that Joshua was so drunk

0:31:57.840 --> 0:32:00.200
<v Speaker 1>that he walked in big circles and fell down a well,

0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:04.479
<v Speaker 1>almost impossible unless he sat down and then started singing

0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:07.080
<v Speaker 1>and maybe fell backwards. But you just kind of folds

0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:08.640
<v Speaker 1>like that right stop.

0:32:08.400 --> 0:32:10.560
<v Speaker 2>And then start screaming, yeating out of here.

0:32:10.760 --> 0:32:12.760
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. So less than twenty four hours after

0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Joshua Spooner's murder, his wife Bathshiba, the young soldier Ezra Rass,

0:32:17.280 --> 0:32:20.240
<v Speaker 1>Private William Brooks, and Sergeant James Buchanan have all been

0:32:20.320 --> 0:32:24.520
<v Speaker 1>arrested as suspects in his murder. The joint trial begins.

0:32:24.560 --> 0:32:26.880
<v Speaker 1>So now you're on trial with two strangers and your

0:32:27.320 --> 0:32:28.080
<v Speaker 1>teenage lover.

0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:28.880
<v Speaker 2>God.

0:32:29.040 --> 0:32:33.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's quick. That begins late April seventeen seventy eight.

0:32:33.200 --> 0:32:35.960
<v Speaker 1>It becomes, of course, a huge sensation. First of all,

0:32:36.000 --> 0:32:38.720
<v Speaker 1>it's the wealth that's the scandal, the violence at play.

0:32:39.280 --> 0:32:41.640
<v Speaker 1>But it truly is one of the first times, like

0:32:41.880 --> 0:32:45.920
<v Speaker 1>in the official newborn two year old America, there has

0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:49.080
<v Speaker 1>been a murder trial. The prosecution is led by a

0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:52.000
<v Speaker 1>man named Robert treat Payne. He's one of the signees

0:32:52.040 --> 0:32:54.400
<v Speaker 1>of the Declaration of Independence. I knew that maybe you've

0:32:54.440 --> 0:32:57.760
<v Speaker 1>heard of it. Ask your friend Nicholas Cage if you

0:32:57.800 --> 0:32:59.480
<v Speaker 1>know now and then the defense is led by a

0:32:59.520 --> 0:33:03.480
<v Speaker 1>man named Levi Lincoln, no relation, but he would later

0:33:03.520 --> 0:33:07.200
<v Speaker 1>serve as President Thomas Jefferson's attorney general. So it's not

0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:09.440
<v Speaker 1>only one of the first capital murder cases tried in

0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:13.720
<v Speaker 1>the United States, but because Levi Lincoln will attempt to

0:33:13.760 --> 0:33:16.440
<v Speaker 1>paint Bathsheba Spooner as mentally unwell at the time of

0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:18.840
<v Speaker 1>the murder, it's also believed to be one of the

0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:22.880
<v Speaker 1>first times the insanity defense is used. Yeah interesting given

0:33:22.920 --> 0:33:26.160
<v Speaker 1>the patriotic backdrop of Massachusetts at the time, the involvement

0:33:26.160 --> 0:33:29.640
<v Speaker 1>of two British soldiers, and the infamy of Bathsheba's loyalist

0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:33.880
<v Speaker 1>father makes this trial inherently political, and of course everybody

0:33:33.880 --> 0:33:37.560
<v Speaker 1>has big opinions about it. Levi Lincoln urges the jurors

0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:40.920
<v Speaker 1>to look past their quote political feelings, but the evidence

0:33:41.080 --> 0:33:45.360
<v Speaker 1>is overwhelming. The trial quickly ends and four guilty verdicts

0:33:45.360 --> 0:33:48.640
<v Speaker 1>are turned in. All of them are sentenced to death

0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:52.120
<v Speaker 1>and their schedule to hang on June fourth, seventeen seventy eight,

0:33:53.000 --> 0:33:55.840
<v Speaker 1>and this is when Bathsheba begs the court to delay

0:33:55.840 --> 0:33:59.880
<v Speaker 1>her execution to spare the life of our unborn child. Right,

0:34:00.960 --> 0:34:04.000
<v Speaker 1>the gallery gasps, that's not true. I put that in.

0:34:04.200 --> 0:34:06.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't know when she told them or how could

0:34:06.400 --> 0:34:08.080
<v Speaker 1>have been in a letter. I bet there was a gas.

0:34:08.719 --> 0:34:10.960
<v Speaker 1>I bet someone gassed, even if it was just someone

0:34:11.000 --> 0:34:14.080
<v Speaker 1>somewhere the secretary of the person that opened that letter.

0:34:14.719 --> 0:34:18.080
<v Speaker 1>So at the time, common law protects fetuses if there

0:34:18.080 --> 0:34:20.799
<v Speaker 1>have been signs of what they used to call the quickening,

0:34:21.280 --> 0:34:24.160
<v Speaker 1>which is basically when the mother can feel the baby.

0:34:24.239 --> 0:34:27.279
<v Speaker 1>It happens usually between the fourth and fifth month of pregnancy.

0:34:27.960 --> 0:34:30.480
<v Speaker 1>So if she really did get pregnant sometime in January,

0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:33.000
<v Speaker 1>which is when she told Ezra that she was pregnant,

0:34:33.320 --> 0:34:35.719
<v Speaker 1>this would put her in the correct timeframe. And there

0:34:35.719 --> 0:34:38.759
<v Speaker 1>are theories that Bathsheba is lying about being pregnant just

0:34:38.800 --> 0:34:41.840
<v Speaker 1>to buy herself time, but either way it works. The

0:34:41.920 --> 0:34:45.160
<v Speaker 1>execution date gets pushed to July second, and then in

0:34:45.200 --> 0:34:49.920
<v Speaker 1>the interim she is examined, and she's examined many times

0:34:50.200 --> 0:34:53.400
<v Speaker 1>to determine whether she's pregnant by a panel of midwives

0:34:53.440 --> 0:34:56.520
<v Speaker 1>that the court puts together. Wow, it is as bad

0:34:56.560 --> 0:35:02.480
<v Speaker 1>as you are anticipating. Humiliating, also, needless sleep, painful, it's

0:35:02.480 --> 0:35:04.960
<v Speaker 1>as gross as you can think of it to be,

0:35:05.360 --> 0:35:09.400
<v Speaker 1>and it's described by one contemporary as quote indecent and cruel.

0:35:10.200 --> 0:35:13.280
<v Speaker 1>In the end, the panel concludes that she is not pregnant,

0:35:13.560 --> 0:35:16.880
<v Speaker 1>but Bathsheba appeals and she hires her own midwife to

0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:20.520
<v Speaker 1>conduct her own exam, and then that midwife concludes she

0:35:20.760 --> 0:35:25.719
<v Speaker 1>is pregnant. So the court sides with their own panel. Surprisingly, no,

0:35:25.880 --> 0:35:29.000
<v Speaker 1>it's been like this all along, and they reject Basheba's

0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:33.120
<v Speaker 1>pregnancy claims. So on July second, seventeen eighty eight, seventeen

0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:36.040
<v Speaker 1>year old Ezra Ross, twenty seven year old William Brooks,

0:35:36.120 --> 0:35:39.040
<v Speaker 1>thirty six year old James Buchanan, and thirty two year

0:35:39.040 --> 0:35:43.080
<v Speaker 1>old Bathsheba Ruggles Spooner are brought to the gallows. Bathsheba

0:35:43.280 --> 0:35:47.440
<v Speaker 1>demands that they perform an autopsy on her body after

0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:51.320
<v Speaker 1>she is hanged, to prove the existence of her unborn child,

0:35:52.120 --> 0:35:54.279
<v Speaker 1>which is like, I'll be looking down at all of

0:35:54.320 --> 0:35:58.799
<v Speaker 1>you as you martyr me. Okay. So outside of that discussion,

0:35:58.840 --> 0:36:01.359
<v Speaker 1>which I imagined to have in a darkened tunnel but

0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:05.480
<v Speaker 1>probably didn't, five thousand people have gathered to watch this hanging.

0:36:05.719 --> 0:36:11.480
<v Speaker 1>You guys. A small town has gathered, which is funny

0:36:11.480 --> 0:36:14.000
<v Speaker 1>because that what was that at the beginning, was that

0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:16.080
<v Speaker 1>Widow's Bay at the beginning when all the people are

0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:18.040
<v Speaker 1>there and they're cheering for the hanging. Or is that

0:36:18.160 --> 0:36:24.760
<v Speaker 1>just another movie? I was watching Wuthering Heights wathering. Molly

0:36:24.920 --> 0:36:29.120
<v Speaker 1>is dialed in. She knows well, because we've been talking

0:36:29.120 --> 0:36:32.120
<v Speaker 1>about Wuthering Heights, and I mistakenly thought that Molly like

0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:34.239
<v Speaker 1>loved it, and so then we watched it to be

0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:36.440
<v Speaker 1>like other people hate it, but Molly seems to love

0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:38.799
<v Speaker 1>it less check it out, and then we were like, oh,

0:36:38.840 --> 0:36:41.560
<v Speaker 1>this is good. We like it. Yeah, I really liked it.

0:36:42.800 --> 0:36:46.439
<v Speaker 1>People love their books, they really do. The children love

0:36:46.600 --> 0:36:50.319
<v Speaker 1>the books. Okay, So outside, five thousand people gather to

0:36:50.360 --> 0:36:53.800
<v Speaker 1>watch this hanging. The man who signs the execution warrant

0:36:53.840 --> 0:36:58.239
<v Speaker 1>is John Avery Junior, who was Joshua's stepbrother. Testimony from

0:36:58.239 --> 0:37:01.239
<v Speaker 1>the execution describes the one set of quote one of

0:37:01.239 --> 0:37:05.360
<v Speaker 1>the most terrified thunderstorms that occurred within the memory of

0:37:05.480 --> 0:37:09.200
<v Speaker 1>anyone living end quote. And they say that that that

0:37:09.400 --> 0:37:12.520
<v Speaker 1>storm quote came up and darkened the heavens, conspiring to

0:37:12.600 --> 0:37:16.680
<v Speaker 1>produce a scene of most dreadful horror. So as they're

0:37:16.719 --> 0:37:21.160
<v Speaker 1>walking to the gallows, black cloud rolls in. Yeah, my god,

0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:24.840
<v Speaker 1>God is pissed. Shortly after the executions, an autopsy is

0:37:24.880 --> 0:37:28.760
<v Speaker 1>performed on Bathsheba's body and the physician finds a quote

0:37:28.760 --> 0:37:34.280
<v Speaker 1>perfect male fetus of the growth of five months completely correct.

0:37:35.480 --> 0:37:39.759
<v Speaker 1>The panel led, damn. The panel led, the clouds told you,

0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:43.440
<v Speaker 1>but you wouldn't listen. Okay, When word gets out that

0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:47.960
<v Speaker 1>Massachusetts has just executed a pregnant woman, the public is horrified,

0:37:48.480 --> 0:37:50.759
<v Speaker 1>and over time this is a plot twist I did

0:37:50.760 --> 0:37:52.960
<v Speaker 1>not see coming, right, yeah, because you're kind of like, oh,

0:37:53.000 --> 0:37:55.520
<v Speaker 1>she's bad, she's bad, this is the crime. They killed him,

0:37:55.920 --> 0:37:59.120
<v Speaker 1>and here's the execution. It's like, yeah, but wait, oh,

0:37:59.120 --> 0:38:02.120
<v Speaker 1>but hold on one second. So the real controversy most

0:38:02.160 --> 0:38:05.640
<v Speaker 1>associated with this case over like history because in the beginning,

0:38:05.640 --> 0:38:09.200
<v Speaker 1>of course, it was the usual moralizing about the risks

0:38:09.200 --> 0:38:12.320
<v Speaker 1>of adultery and evil women having their way and being

0:38:12.440 --> 0:38:14.960
<v Speaker 1>free spirited and loud and all the things that are

0:38:15.000 --> 0:38:18.560
<v Speaker 1>so terrible about sexually a music as child, but don't yeah,

0:38:18.560 --> 0:38:21.720
<v Speaker 1>that is very seen, the risks of adultery and evil

0:38:21.719 --> 0:38:25.160
<v Speaker 1>women using dumb men. But it's actually lived on as

0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:28.440
<v Speaker 1>a cautionary tale about how the biases around politics and

0:38:28.560 --> 0:38:33.399
<v Speaker 1>gender seep into the justice system. Bathsheba herself has increasingly

0:38:33.480 --> 0:38:36.560
<v Speaker 1>been treated with more and more empathy as the years pass,

0:38:36.640 --> 0:38:39.080
<v Speaker 1>and sympathy, I should say, but no one doubts she

0:38:39.200 --> 0:38:41.600
<v Speaker 1>wanted her husband dead or that she conspired to kill him,

0:38:41.600 --> 0:38:45.480
<v Speaker 1>But contemporary historians all over the extreme circumstances of her

0:38:45.560 --> 0:38:47.719
<v Speaker 1>life that led up to the crime. Her marriage was

0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:51.440
<v Speaker 1>stifling and it likely involved domestic abuse, the double standard

0:38:51.520 --> 0:38:54.919
<v Speaker 1>and how who commit adultery are treated versus the men

0:38:55.360 --> 0:38:59.160
<v Speaker 1>who commit adultery, Not to mention Bashiva's grief around being

0:38:59.280 --> 0:39:02.919
<v Speaker 1>basically cut off from her father, him being going from

0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:06.040
<v Speaker 1>being an incredibly respected man to an all out pariah,

0:39:06.080 --> 0:39:09.840
<v Speaker 1>and then that reverberating into her life, people judging her

0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:13.640
<v Speaker 1>and her being socially isolated because of all that. In

0:39:13.680 --> 0:39:17.399
<v Speaker 1>the end, the Spooner's children end up being adopted by relatives,

0:39:17.719 --> 0:39:20.960
<v Speaker 1>and it seems they most likely escape all the notoriety

0:39:21.000 --> 0:39:23.719
<v Speaker 1>that is around this case. A few years after his

0:39:23.840 --> 0:39:28.000
<v Speaker 1>daughter's execution, Bathsheba's father, Timothy Ruggles, dies in exile in

0:39:28.040 --> 0:39:30.839
<v Speaker 1>Canada in his early eighties, and the well that they

0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:36.000
<v Speaker 1>put Joshua Spooner's body into is actually still standing in Brookfield, Massachusetts,

0:39:36.040 --> 0:39:41.520
<v Speaker 1>according to the Brookfield Historical Commission, although they say it's

0:39:41.560 --> 0:39:45.799
<v Speaker 1>obscured by thick poison ivy much of the year. AKA

0:39:46.400 --> 0:39:49.279
<v Speaker 1>stay the fuck away from the well. And that is

0:39:49.320 --> 0:39:52.320
<v Speaker 1>the story of the first murder in America, the murder

0:39:52.320 --> 0:39:57.600
<v Speaker 1>of Joshua Spooner. Wow, that's crazy, that's heavy. Good job,

0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:01.160
<v Speaker 1>thank you, that's a great one. The four July. Right,

0:40:01.160 --> 0:40:03.319
<v Speaker 1>it's coming up. Do your homework, everybody.

0:40:03.719 --> 0:40:09.200
<v Speaker 2>They don't tell you this shit at cool mine is

0:40:10.080 --> 0:40:13.840
<v Speaker 2>they had one hundred years later? Only okay, a little later.

0:40:14.080 --> 0:40:16.680
<v Speaker 2>I think right after the Civil War? When did the

0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Civil War end? Its ion might be lying.

0:40:19.680 --> 0:40:27.560
<v Speaker 1>Eighteen fifty three, six eighteen sixty five. We were both right?

0:40:29.320 --> 0:40:32.439
<v Speaker 1>So should we get our high school diplomas? Again? No?

0:40:33.440 --> 0:40:36.520
<v Speaker 2>On the show, I don't want to take that test

0:40:36.560 --> 0:40:38.880
<v Speaker 2>in front of everyone. We're gonna fucking fail. Are you

0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:42.000
<v Speaker 2>kidding me? To be humiliating? It's a fan cult video

0:40:42.040 --> 0:40:45.360
<v Speaker 2>of us trying to pass the GED get our ged. No,

0:40:46.640 --> 0:40:48.719
<v Speaker 2>I'd rather talk about my modeling photos.

0:40:48.800 --> 0:40:51.200
<v Speaker 1>Come on, Oh my god, the people love the fucking

0:40:51.239 --> 0:40:53.799
<v Speaker 1>modeling photos. We have to talk about that. People are

0:40:53.800 --> 0:40:57.440
<v Speaker 1>going crazy for that entire thing. They really met you

0:40:57.480 --> 0:41:00.840
<v Speaker 1>at that vulnerability that you revealed for them. That's really nice.

0:41:01.160 --> 0:41:02.640
<v Speaker 1>That is nice. So here we go.

0:41:02.960 --> 0:41:05.799
<v Speaker 2>We're getting into the country's two hundred and fiftieth anniversary,

0:41:06.200 --> 0:41:07.440
<v Speaker 2>as you know right now.

0:41:07.480 --> 0:41:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Definitely now we're going.

0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:13.200
<v Speaker 2>To go back to the centennial, which is eighteen seventy six,

0:41:13.719 --> 0:41:15.520
<v Speaker 2>and we're going to be in Kentucky.

0:41:15.960 --> 0:41:17.399
<v Speaker 1>Great. Today's story is.

0:41:17.320 --> 0:41:20.560
<v Speaker 2>An unexplained phenomenon that's straight out of an episode of

0:41:20.600 --> 0:41:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Bananas Weird News. Great, and this one is in the

0:41:24.080 --> 0:41:27.680
<v Speaker 2>genre of weird stuff falling from the sky, like when

0:41:27.719 --> 0:41:30.680
<v Speaker 2>I covered the Oakville Blobs in episode four twenty nine,

0:41:30.680 --> 0:41:33.319
<v Speaker 2>where unidentified goo fell out of the sky in the

0:41:33.360 --> 0:41:36.600
<v Speaker 2>eighties and Washington State. But today, in our story, there's

0:41:36.640 --> 0:41:39.440
<v Speaker 2>a bit more progress made in identifying the stuff that

0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:42.320
<v Speaker 2>actually fell from the sky as big of a mystery.

0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:45.280
<v Speaker 2>This is the story of the Kentucky meat shower.

0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh I've heard of this. Oh no, meat shower. Meat shower.

0:41:52.200 --> 0:41:55.160
<v Speaker 1>Let's meditate on meat shower. You're just out in a

0:41:55.239 --> 0:42:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Kentucky field, roaming through hip high grass and love life

0:42:00.760 --> 0:42:04.319
<v Speaker 1>and then splat boom, right on your face. There's a

0:42:04.360 --> 0:42:04.959
<v Speaker 1>Prime rib.

0:42:06.640 --> 0:42:09.480
<v Speaker 2>The main sources for the story are articles from Scientific

0:42:09.520 --> 0:42:12.200
<v Speaker 2>America and Atlas Obscura, and the rest of the sources

0:42:12.200 --> 0:42:14.879
<v Speaker 2>can be found in our show notes and Cooks Illustrated

0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:19.120
<v Speaker 2>and Cloudy with a Chance of Meat Falls. So it's

0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:23.840
<v Speaker 2>March third, eighteen seventy six, and we're an Olympian Springs, Kentucky.

0:42:23.960 --> 0:42:27.440
<v Speaker 2>It's a small rural community in Bath County, about fifty

0:42:27.520 --> 0:42:31.560
<v Speaker 2>miles east of Lexington, Kentucky. Great a woman named Rebecca

0:42:31.640 --> 0:42:34.680
<v Speaker 2>Crouch is in the front yard of her family farm

0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:37.440
<v Speaker 2>making soap as you had to do back.

0:42:37.320 --> 0:42:40.320
<v Speaker 1>Then, mixing some lye with some tallow.

0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:43.040
<v Speaker 2>That's right, which is a time and labor intensive chore

0:42:43.040 --> 0:42:45.759
<v Speaker 2>done by boiling rendered animal fat on an open fire

0:42:45.800 --> 0:42:47.160
<v Speaker 2>and combining it with lie.

0:42:47.560 --> 0:42:49.280
<v Speaker 1>How do you think I used to spend my summers?

0:42:49.640 --> 0:42:50.040
<v Speaker 1>That's right.

0:42:50.040 --> 0:42:52.799
<v Speaker 2>You're a farm girl, country girl. Have you read the

0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:55.080
<v Speaker 2>book Yesteryear yet?

0:42:55.200 --> 0:42:55.279
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:42:55.480 --> 0:42:57.319
<v Speaker 2>It's great, you should read it, Okay, But there's a

0:42:57.520 --> 0:42:58.759
<v Speaker 2>soap making scene in it.

0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:01.480
<v Speaker 1>That's all I know about it. Is it sexy? No,

0:43:02.200 --> 0:43:03.720
<v Speaker 1>forget it, very not sexy.

0:43:03.880 --> 0:43:07.919
<v Speaker 2>It's about a trad wife blogger who gets taken back

0:43:07.960 --> 0:43:10.040
<v Speaker 2>into the time when she would have to actually work

0:43:10.080 --> 0:43:11.960
<v Speaker 2>as a trap, like had to do the things like

0:43:12.040 --> 0:43:15.319
<v Speaker 2>make so like and make bread fresh instead, and like

0:43:15.520 --> 0:43:19.600
<v Speaker 2>that's genius, so good yesteryear. It's getting made into a movie.

0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:21.239
<v Speaker 2>It's like that's hilarious.

0:43:21.320 --> 0:43:21.640
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:43:21.719 --> 0:43:24.440
<v Speaker 2>So, as missus Crouch is working, she begins to see

0:43:24.480 --> 0:43:27.359
<v Speaker 2>what she'll later describe as a substance that looks a

0:43:27.360 --> 0:43:30.840
<v Speaker 2>bit like snowflakes falling out of the sky.

0:43:31.360 --> 0:43:33.919
<v Speaker 1>Snowflakes is fine, it's so fun. It's not big deal.

0:43:34.040 --> 0:43:37.640
<v Speaker 2>But it's sunny and warm out. There's no snow. This

0:43:37.760 --> 0:43:40.840
<v Speaker 2>isn't snowflakes. It's a cloudless day. And some of the

0:43:40.880 --> 0:43:43.720
<v Speaker 2>flakes are very big. She describes them as being quote

0:43:43.719 --> 0:43:46.560
<v Speaker 2>as long as my hand and about half an inch wide,

0:43:46.960 --> 0:43:49.040
<v Speaker 2>so well as long as my hand, the big ones

0:43:49.080 --> 0:43:50.800
<v Speaker 2>and like half an inch wide.

0:43:51.080 --> 0:43:54.759
<v Speaker 1>Okay, take some big pieces of meat. I'm sorry, it's meat.

0:43:54.760 --> 0:43:58.600
<v Speaker 1>I already's meat. Spoiler, it's fucking meat. It's me meat flakes,

0:43:58.719 --> 0:43:59.320
<v Speaker 1>meat flakes.

0:44:00.239 --> 0:44:03.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh, there's a really great drawing of the whole thing,

0:44:03.239 --> 0:44:05.480
<v Speaker 2>if you just don't have the imagination for it.

0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:07.920
<v Speaker 1>Great. I love this so much. Let's take a look.

0:44:09.960 --> 0:44:13.960
<v Speaker 2>The artist is James Fossdyke, brilliant and it's just James sausag.

0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:16.879
<v Speaker 1>You sure can draw Gristle. I don't like the look

0:44:16.920 --> 0:44:18.879
<v Speaker 1>of those meat clumps that are falling on her.

0:44:19.000 --> 0:44:21.680
<v Speaker 2>It looks like a children's book. Yeah, so if you're

0:44:21.719 --> 0:44:24.200
<v Speaker 2>watching on Netflix you can see this. If you're not,

0:44:24.600 --> 0:44:25.080
<v Speaker 2>you should be.

0:44:25.120 --> 0:44:25.480
<v Speaker 1>It's good.

0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:28.840
<v Speaker 2>So, as everything gathers on her yard and she inspects

0:44:28.880 --> 0:44:32.760
<v Speaker 2>them further, missus Crouch realizes that they look not unlike

0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:35.920
<v Speaker 2>the stuff she's making her so bad of animal flesh,

0:44:36.400 --> 0:44:39.919
<v Speaker 2>like meats or bits of fatty connective tissue. She said,

0:44:40.000 --> 0:44:42.760
<v Speaker 2>quote it looked gristly, as if it had been torn from.

0:44:42.600 --> 0:44:45.040
<v Speaker 1>The throat of some animal. Good Lord.

0:44:46.000 --> 0:44:50.040
<v Speaker 2>The Crouch family cat and dog are fucking stoked. They

0:44:50.080 --> 0:44:53.120
<v Speaker 2>come a run in and they start going to town.

0:44:53.520 --> 0:44:55.239
<v Speaker 1>Do we know the names of those pets? Oh no,

0:44:55.280 --> 0:44:58.080
<v Speaker 1>Well let's name them now for history's sake. Snowflake, Snowflake

0:44:58.160 --> 0:45:03.600
<v Speaker 1>and gristle, Peaty Grizzle who I had a friend whose

0:45:03.640 --> 0:45:05.279
<v Speaker 1>dog was named grizzled. That's a great name for a

0:45:05.280 --> 0:45:06.880
<v Speaker 1>dog that I just made up or was it in

0:45:06.960 --> 0:45:08.359
<v Speaker 1>like a movie? Probably both?

0:45:08.440 --> 0:45:11.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So they're losing their minds eating all of this.

0:45:11.320 --> 0:45:14.040
<v Speaker 2>The family hogs and chickens get in on the action too,

0:45:14.280 --> 0:45:14.840
<v Speaker 2>and eat.

0:45:14.680 --> 0:45:17.560
<v Speaker 1>A lot of what was falling and cannibalize themselves. Well,

0:45:17.600 --> 0:45:20.480
<v Speaker 1>we don't know exactly what the animal is. Okay, okay,

0:45:20.560 --> 0:45:24.720
<v Speaker 1>it's human meat, right, Oh, it's not cannibalism, it's human.

0:45:25.840 --> 0:45:29.480
<v Speaker 1>The chickens are like, finally we get our say, I've been.

0:45:29.320 --> 0:45:33.359
<v Speaker 2>Feeding the crows freeze ried chicken hearts. Oh, which feels bad,

0:45:33.640 --> 0:45:34.920
<v Speaker 2>but they love it.

0:45:35.040 --> 0:45:37.200
<v Speaker 1>They're going to take over. They're going to take the

0:45:37.239 --> 0:45:41.480
<v Speaker 1>keys to your home. Fine they can, Okay.

0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:43.680
<v Speaker 2>A few days later, just by the bye, the dog

0:45:43.760 --> 0:45:45.839
<v Speaker 2>does get a bit sick, but we don't know if

0:45:45.840 --> 0:45:48.120
<v Speaker 2>it's connected, and it doesn't seem like any of the

0:45:48.160 --> 0:45:49.239
<v Speaker 2>other animals do either.

0:45:49.360 --> 0:45:51.799
<v Speaker 1>So right, because the dog ran over and bit like

0:45:52.040 --> 0:45:53.800
<v Speaker 1>ate some grizzle, and then they ran over there and

0:45:53.800 --> 0:45:55.560
<v Speaker 1>to eat a big cow pie exactly.

0:45:56.320 --> 0:45:59.799
<v Speaker 2>So in all, about two hundred pounds of this meat

0:46:00.280 --> 0:46:02.440
<v Speaker 2>substance falls for about.

0:46:02.120 --> 0:46:07.560
<v Speaker 1>A minute a grown man's worth. So true. Oh the

0:46:07.760 --> 0:46:10.799
<v Speaker 1>sound of the slop and just one lady trying to

0:46:10.800 --> 0:46:12.880
<v Speaker 1>make some soap. What the fuck Jesus?

0:46:13.200 --> 0:46:15.719
<v Speaker 2>It seems like this event is pretty much limited to

0:46:15.760 --> 0:46:19.239
<v Speaker 2>the area around missus Crouch's house, and she says that

0:46:19.280 --> 0:46:22.080
<v Speaker 2>the meat smells fresh when it had just fallen, but

0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:24.080
<v Speaker 2>throughout the day it starts to go off, and by

0:46:24.120 --> 0:46:26.359
<v Speaker 2>the next day the little flakes are all dried out.

0:46:27.040 --> 0:46:29.520
<v Speaker 2>So it does what meat does. The event attracts national

0:46:29.560 --> 0:46:33.279
<v Speaker 2>media attention and several samples are saved. One is sent

0:46:33.320 --> 0:46:37.840
<v Speaker 2>to Louisville for analysis, while another is sent to Washington, DC. Also,

0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:40.560
<v Speaker 2>a correspondent for the New York Herald goes to visit

0:46:40.680 --> 0:46:44.440
<v Speaker 2>the Crouch farm. This reporter goes all around town interviewing

0:46:44.480 --> 0:46:47.120
<v Speaker 2>people about the phenomenon, asking if missus.

0:46:46.800 --> 0:46:49.240
<v Speaker 1>Crouch is full of shit basically fit.

0:46:49.360 --> 0:46:51.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but no, everyone is like, this is not a

0:46:51.280 --> 0:46:53.719
<v Speaker 2>woman who like she's making soap. She doesn't have a

0:46:53.760 --> 0:46:56.120
<v Speaker 2>lot of time for joking around and like pranks. She

0:46:56.280 --> 0:46:58.600
<v Speaker 2>handles live, yeah, with no glove.

0:46:58.840 --> 0:47:02.439
<v Speaker 1>She's a fucking farm. Like she's not making shit up? Yeah,

0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:04.640
<v Speaker 1>do not even. And while there is some.

0:47:04.600 --> 0:47:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Investigation going on in the article, it does seem like

0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:08.879
<v Speaker 2>a lot of it is just a reporter making fun

0:47:08.920 --> 0:47:11.560
<v Speaker 2>of the members of this very rural community. He's kind

0:47:11.560 --> 0:47:13.600
<v Speaker 2>of a dick about it, and it's probably pissed that

0:47:13.640 --> 0:47:14.759
<v Speaker 2>he got sent all the way out there.

0:47:15.040 --> 0:47:17.400
<v Speaker 1>So what are you saying like people are kind of dumb?

0:47:17.520 --> 0:47:20.440
<v Speaker 2>Or yeah, okay, or he's making stuff up because some

0:47:20.480 --> 0:47:23.240
<v Speaker 2>of the conversations in the article are just don't seem

0:47:23.280 --> 0:47:25.880
<v Speaker 2>like conversations people have. But yeah, you know, it was

0:47:25.880 --> 0:47:27.759
<v Speaker 2>the eighteen seventies, so what do I know?

0:47:28.080 --> 0:47:30.440
<v Speaker 1>Fill it up? Fill up that article, rusty.

0:47:30.400 --> 0:47:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, we need two thousand words. So he bargains with

0:47:33.680 --> 0:47:36.920
<v Speaker 2>a railroad laborer named Jimmy Welsh to eat a dollar's

0:47:36.960 --> 0:47:40.120
<v Speaker 2>worth of the meat. No, like, just so we could

0:47:40.160 --> 0:47:41.920
<v Speaker 2>get some fucking color for his article.

0:47:42.120 --> 0:47:44.960
<v Speaker 1>So he's saying, if you eat this lump of gristle,

0:47:45.080 --> 0:47:45.719
<v Speaker 1>I will pay you.

0:47:45.680 --> 0:47:47.680
<v Speaker 2>A dollar that fell how many days ago?

0:47:48.200 --> 0:47:50.560
<v Speaker 1>And also, sorry, but can we do a doult? What

0:47:50.719 --> 0:47:51.839
<v Speaker 1>is a dollar worth? Back?

0:47:51.880 --> 0:47:52.040
<v Speaker 2>Then?

0:47:52.239 --> 0:47:56.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh shit, one dollar? Eighteen seventy six? One dollar going

0:47:56.960 --> 0:47:57.200
<v Speaker 1>to go?

0:47:57.280 --> 0:48:00.520
<v Speaker 2>You go first, and then Molly will okay would that be?

0:48:00.680 --> 0:48:02.879
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna guess too, I guess too, you can too.

0:48:02.960 --> 0:48:05.040
<v Speaker 1>We're all in this now. I'm going to say thirty

0:48:05.040 --> 0:48:07.640
<v Speaker 1>one dollars. Okay, I'm going to say fifty. Karen is

0:48:07.760 --> 0:48:12.880
<v Speaker 1>just ai overview, but it says thirty one dollars. No, yeah,

0:48:14.400 --> 0:48:17.239
<v Speaker 1>I had to add that looks like I set this

0:48:17.280 --> 0:48:20.000
<v Speaker 1>whole thing up because I demanded it. No, come on,

0:48:20.040 --> 0:48:21.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't believe that you would do something. Have we

0:48:21.640 --> 0:48:22.920
<v Speaker 1>ever had a dead on one?

0:48:23.200 --> 0:48:28.600
<v Speaker 2>I think once? And this is yours. Congratulations drop the

0:48:28.600 --> 0:48:31.040
<v Speaker 2>streamers hiding up.

0:48:31.160 --> 0:48:33.879
<v Speaker 1>Well, I guess I've tried so hard for so long

0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:37.120
<v Speaker 1>to guess the numbers. I'm really bad at it. I

0:48:37.160 --> 0:48:41.520
<v Speaker 1>couldn't have done it without Elvis his necklace. I'm always like,

0:48:41.600 --> 0:48:44.120
<v Speaker 1>could you please do your job? No, I love it.

0:48:45.480 --> 0:48:49.680
<v Speaker 1>This is your job. This is my joy. This is

0:48:49.680 --> 0:48:52.319
<v Speaker 1>your job. Good job getting this job. Thank you making

0:48:52.320 --> 0:48:54.880
<v Speaker 1>this my god, thank you creating the job. I applied

0:48:55.400 --> 0:48:57.520
<v Speaker 1>and then I called back two weeks later and I said, hey,

0:48:57.560 --> 0:48:59.520
<v Speaker 1>I am a bad interview, but I know I can

0:48:59.560 --> 0:49:00.279
<v Speaker 1>do this. Okay.

0:49:00.320 --> 0:49:02.520
<v Speaker 2>So we're in the moment when he's given thirty one

0:49:02.560 --> 0:49:05.200
<v Speaker 2>dollars for this poor guy named Jimmy to eat this meat,

0:49:05.200 --> 0:49:06.439
<v Speaker 2>which is probably a lot of money.

0:49:06.480 --> 0:49:08.640
<v Speaker 1>He's a railroad laborer. That's a lot of money.

0:49:09.200 --> 0:49:10.960
<v Speaker 2>At this point, it's been about a week after the

0:49:11.000 --> 0:49:12.120
<v Speaker 2>meat first fell from the sky.

0:49:12.520 --> 0:49:13.880
<v Speaker 1>This Jimmy's got a tummy agg.

0:49:14.360 --> 0:49:17.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, journalist writes quote the article was ordered and placed

0:49:17.840 --> 0:49:20.719
<v Speaker 2>before him the meat. He then hesitated and said he

0:49:20.800 --> 0:49:23.640
<v Speaker 2>was not hungry. I then told him I would give

0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:25.959
<v Speaker 2>him three dollars to gulp it down.

0:49:26.200 --> 0:49:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Ninety then ninety three. Right.

0:49:28.280 --> 0:49:30.960
<v Speaker 2>He then suddenly remembered that it was the season of

0:49:31.080 --> 0:49:33.640
<v Speaker 2>lent and backed out on moral principles.

0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:38.759
<v Speaker 1>So he Jimmy chicken out, Jimmy chicken out or muttoned out.

0:49:38.800 --> 0:49:40.480
<v Speaker 1>We don't really know. You know what he did, He

0:49:40.600 --> 0:49:43.440
<v Speaker 1>dumbed his way into a thing that right, Why were

0:49:43.480 --> 0:49:46.000
<v Speaker 1>you ever sitting at that table? It's disgusting and risky.

0:49:46.239 --> 0:49:49.760
<v Speaker 2>Don't do it drinking alcohol. There's no way alcohol wasn't involved.

0:49:49.840 --> 0:49:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Just meant some guide the bar.

0:49:51.320 --> 0:49:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:49:51.640 --> 0:49:53.799
<v Speaker 2>So the meat is sent to several different agencies for

0:49:53.880 --> 0:49:56.920
<v Speaker 2>testing in Kentucky and also out of state. There's a

0:49:56.960 --> 0:50:01.080
<v Speaker 2>man named Leopold Brandeis whose qualifications are on clear same.

0:50:01.280 --> 0:50:03.600
<v Speaker 1>Well, he has his own college. Does that count, does

0:50:03.600 --> 0:50:05.160
<v Speaker 1>he Brandish? Yeah, university.

0:50:05.480 --> 0:50:08.200
<v Speaker 2>He analyzes a sample that's been preserved in glycerine, and

0:50:08.239 --> 0:50:10.920
<v Speaker 2>he publishes his findings in the Scientific American because I

0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:13.840
<v Speaker 2>guess anyone could throw anything in there now, saying he

0:50:14.000 --> 0:50:17.080
<v Speaker 2>believes the substance is something called gnostic.

0:50:17.640 --> 0:50:20.520
<v Speaker 1>Have you heard of gnostic only in the Bible or

0:50:20.560 --> 0:50:25.040
<v Speaker 1>gnostic gno nostoc No, I've never heard of that. Basically,

0:50:25.080 --> 0:50:27.560
<v Speaker 1>it's a bacteria that swells up into a jelly like

0:50:27.600 --> 0:50:28.600
<v Speaker 1>substance when it rains.

0:50:28.640 --> 0:50:31.080
<v Speaker 2>I went to Wikipedia and it said that quote. The

0:50:31.120 --> 0:50:34.120
<v Speaker 2>word itself is a combination of the English nostril and

0:50:34.200 --> 0:50:37.640
<v Speaker 2>German nason loch, which means nosehole or nostril.

0:50:37.680 --> 0:50:41.360
<v Speaker 1>Because basically, because it looks like not that's disgusting.

0:50:41.480 --> 0:50:43.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and when it lands on the ground.

0:50:43.360 --> 0:50:47.719
<v Speaker 1>I have a photo of it. Great, here we go. Oh,

0:50:48.560 --> 0:50:52.040
<v Speaker 1>it just looks like seaweed kelp. He looks like kelp.

0:50:52.239 --> 0:50:53.880
<v Speaker 1>It looks like Oh. I have a photo of Missus

0:50:53.880 --> 0:50:55.200
<v Speaker 1>Crouch too. Oh perfect.

0:50:55.520 --> 0:50:57.840
<v Speaker 2>We're all guessing she's fifty, but that's in today's money.

0:50:57.840 --> 0:50:59.080
<v Speaker 2>She's probably twenty seven.

0:50:59.280 --> 0:51:03.120
<v Speaker 1>Great, I know. Also, listener, Missus Crouch took a photo

0:51:03.320 --> 0:51:06.319
<v Speaker 1>smartly with a parasol parasol and her hand on her

0:51:06.360 --> 0:51:09.520
<v Speaker 1>fucking hip. She's doing it. Yeah, she's making it happen.

0:51:09.680 --> 0:51:11.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, come at me, she says, this is Crouch.

0:51:11.920 --> 0:51:14.320
<v Speaker 1>Now she has to use an umbrella because there's fucking

0:51:14.360 --> 0:51:16.480
<v Speaker 1>gnostics falling all over the place. I bet that was

0:51:16.520 --> 0:51:17.480
<v Speaker 1>the journalist's ideas.

0:51:17.640 --> 0:51:19.840
<v Speaker 2>That's so true, okay, But the problem with this theory

0:51:19.880 --> 0:51:22.000
<v Speaker 2>is that, of course the weather was fine and clear,

0:51:22.080 --> 0:51:24.560
<v Speaker 2>so it's not that other testers believe that the meat

0:51:24.600 --> 0:51:29.600
<v Speaker 2>is lung tissue, either from a horse or a human infant,

0:51:30.040 --> 0:51:32.120
<v Speaker 2>which is fucking insane, and everyone just moves on.

0:51:32.440 --> 0:51:36.560
<v Speaker 1>From that statement. Please now, like nobody is like, what, well,

0:51:36.560 --> 0:51:38.920
<v Speaker 1>because there was two hundred pounds of it.

0:51:38.920 --> 0:51:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Right, And actually, when missus Crouch first sees it falling,

0:51:41.520 --> 0:51:44.040
<v Speaker 2>she had said she'd had quote a vague idea that

0:51:44.120 --> 0:51:46.400
<v Speaker 2>my husband and son who were away had been torn

0:51:46.440 --> 0:51:48.960
<v Speaker 2>to pieces and their remains were being brought home to

0:51:49.000 --> 0:51:51.359
<v Speaker 2>me in this way by the wind end quote, So

0:51:51.840 --> 0:51:54.520
<v Speaker 2>she needed some xanax before this even fucking happened.

0:51:54.600 --> 0:51:57.239
<v Speaker 1>Well, and after the Civil War, so maybe she saw

0:51:57.280 --> 0:51:59.640
<v Speaker 1>some stuff that she was like, this reminds me of

0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:01.880
<v Speaker 1>human good point tragedy.

0:52:02.000 --> 0:52:04.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then they probably still believe in God back then,

0:52:04.440 --> 0:52:06.400
<v Speaker 2>so the like that God works, that guy works in

0:52:06.440 --> 0:52:10.000
<v Speaker 2>mysterious ways, absolutely, like throwing meat through the weather.

0:52:10.320 --> 0:52:14.919
<v Speaker 1>As a punishment go to church, Missus Crouch. That's very

0:52:15.040 --> 0:52:17.440
<v Speaker 1>weird though, because I think that idea of looking at

0:52:17.440 --> 0:52:21.439
<v Speaker 1>something completely foreign and immediately attributing it to a certain

0:52:21.520 --> 0:52:23.319
<v Speaker 1>place is meaningful because it's like.

0:52:23.640 --> 0:52:26.000
<v Speaker 2>And also that like you're being punished in some way

0:52:26.120 --> 0:52:29.360
<v Speaker 2>for something. Yeah, that's like, we understand how that works.

0:52:29.719 --> 0:52:33.160
<v Speaker 2>But multiple testers believe the meat might be human. And

0:52:33.200 --> 0:52:35.799
<v Speaker 2>this is so dumb. People think that two or more

0:52:35.840 --> 0:52:38.080
<v Speaker 2>men may have killed each other somewhere in a nearby

0:52:38.160 --> 0:52:40.040
<v Speaker 2>knife fight, and then the wind picked up all that

0:52:40.080 --> 0:52:41.480
<v Speaker 2>remains and tornado dropping.

0:52:41.520 --> 0:52:44.080
<v Speaker 1>It's just like, yeah, stupid, they slash each other to

0:52:44.160 --> 0:52:50.080
<v Speaker 1>ribbons and then without bones. Those car those car dealership.

0:52:51.560 --> 0:52:55.120
<v Speaker 1>You can set one of those car dealership guys that

0:52:55.239 --> 0:52:58.279
<v Speaker 1>dances around to any song and I will laugh my

0:52:58.360 --> 0:53:00.280
<v Speaker 1>ass off. So funny, really good. Okay.

0:53:00.280 --> 0:53:03.560
<v Speaker 2>So a humor writer back then named William Livingston Elden

0:53:03.600 --> 0:53:05.359
<v Speaker 2>writes in The New York Times that the meat might

0:53:05.400 --> 0:53:09.080
<v Speaker 2>have come from space and maybe exploded animal matter from

0:53:09.120 --> 0:53:12.120
<v Speaker 2>another planet. Let's stop talking about dumb theories.

0:53:12.200 --> 0:53:14.919
<v Speaker 1>Let's not ask any old fourth grader what they think.

0:53:15.360 --> 0:53:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Here's a dumb theory that is probably true. Okay.

0:53:18.080 --> 0:53:20.200
<v Speaker 2>The theory that most locals arrive at, and that most

0:53:20.200 --> 0:53:22.319
<v Speaker 2>people still believe to this day, is that the meat

0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:26.400
<v Speaker 2>had been eaten by vultures, so we're far off partially digested,

0:53:26.840 --> 0:53:31.200
<v Speaker 2>and then when vultures get scared, they vomit their contents

0:53:31.200 --> 0:53:33.600
<v Speaker 2>of their stomach out. Okay, so the vultures maybe had

0:53:33.600 --> 0:53:37.040
<v Speaker 2>eaten something, they were in flight, something startled them, and

0:53:37.200 --> 0:53:41.839
<v Speaker 2>they barfed all the meat onto this one spot. Yeah,

0:53:41.960 --> 0:53:44.880
<v Speaker 2>the only that's to me, that's the only solution that

0:53:44.960 --> 0:53:46.000
<v Speaker 2>isn't paranormal.

0:53:46.120 --> 0:53:49.120
<v Speaker 1>That makes sense, It makes perfect sense. Man introduced the

0:53:49.200 --> 0:53:54.120
<v Speaker 1>idea that they got scared by a pterodactyl, a leftover dinosaur.

0:53:54.160 --> 0:53:56.320
<v Speaker 2>You know what, if they got scared by a ufo,

0:53:56.560 --> 0:53:57.400
<v Speaker 2>then we're back.

0:53:58.120 --> 0:54:01.160
<v Speaker 1>If they got scared by the Lugno's monster, now I'm

0:54:01.239 --> 0:54:03.000
<v Speaker 1>interested in that story.

0:54:02.680 --> 0:54:04.640
<v Speaker 2>So we actually you're right, that might be the reason,

0:54:04.640 --> 0:54:06.560
<v Speaker 2>but we don't know why and what scared them, and

0:54:06.600 --> 0:54:07.719
<v Speaker 2>it's probably sci fi.

0:54:08.239 --> 0:54:11.080
<v Speaker 1>It feels good, though, that there's something normal that you

0:54:11.120 --> 0:54:14.040
<v Speaker 1>can tell me that possibly could happen because the agitation

0:54:14.239 --> 0:54:18.640
<v Speaker 1>I feel not being able to think of even how possibly.

0:54:18.160 --> 0:54:20.319
<v Speaker 2>This is now, because your brain goes to airplane and

0:54:20.360 --> 0:54:23.319
<v Speaker 2>then your brain is like, that's stupid, it's eighteen seventy six.

0:54:23.520 --> 0:54:25.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and then you start going but I saw a

0:54:25.400 --> 0:54:28.399
<v Speaker 1>show on Netflix where they actually rolled those things over.

0:54:29.320 --> 0:54:31.720
<v Speaker 2>The enduring mystery, though, is that Missus Crouch was standing

0:54:31.760 --> 0:54:35.280
<v Speaker 2>right in her yard. She didn't see any of these vultures.

0:54:35.280 --> 0:54:38.640
<v Speaker 2>But who knows, or might it could have flown that way?

0:54:38.719 --> 0:54:40.760
<v Speaker 2>She might not have seen them. They were very high.

0:54:40.880 --> 0:54:45.719
<v Speaker 1>Who knows what? I just I would love to keep

0:54:45.760 --> 0:54:48.840
<v Speaker 1>that list going. She had bad vision. She was a liar,

0:54:50.080 --> 0:54:51.120
<v Speaker 1>so blinded her.

0:54:52.719 --> 0:54:55.920
<v Speaker 2>She had eaten some fucking magic mushrooms from her phone.

0:54:56.360 --> 0:54:57.080
<v Speaker 1>Thing was fake.

0:54:57.200 --> 0:54:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so here's the fun part. In the early she though,

0:55:00.480 --> 0:55:03.800
<v Speaker 2>there's an art professor named Kurt God who takes a

0:55:03.920 --> 0:55:06.520
<v Speaker 2>job at Kentucky's oldest university.

0:55:06.800 --> 0:55:11.080
<v Speaker 1>Kentucky University of Ancient History. So close Transylvania.

0:55:11.960 --> 0:55:15.920
<v Speaker 2>Your University of Lexington, Kentuck' not in Lexington, Kentucky.

0:55:16.160 --> 0:55:18.240
<v Speaker 1>No, No, there is not a vampire college.

0:55:18.239 --> 0:55:21.960
<v Speaker 2>There's Vampire College and he's an art professor there. And

0:55:22.040 --> 0:55:23.759
<v Speaker 2>right around that time that he starts this job, he

0:55:23.800 --> 0:55:26.800
<v Speaker 2>reads a book about strange weather phenomenon and is thrilled.

0:55:26.880 --> 0:55:28.560
<v Speaker 1>This guy's like an adorable weirdo.

0:55:28.800 --> 0:55:31.040
<v Speaker 2>Great, he's like an art teacher, but seems like the

0:55:31.120 --> 0:55:33.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of like high school science teacher that like makes

0:55:33.400 --> 0:55:35.560
<v Speaker 2>you interested in science and you become a scientist and

0:55:35.560 --> 0:55:37.720
<v Speaker 2>you're like, the only reason is because mister God told

0:55:37.719 --> 0:55:39.439
<v Speaker 2>me that I could be anything, and so I did,

0:55:39.480 --> 0:55:41.560
<v Speaker 2>and that women are in science too, and so I

0:55:41.600 --> 0:55:42.960
<v Speaker 2>did you know, Like he's just one of those. He

0:55:43.000 --> 0:55:46.279
<v Speaker 2>also he's kind of like Evince had an older brother

0:55:46.320 --> 0:55:48.319
<v Speaker 2>who is a professor. He kind of looks like him.

0:55:48.360 --> 0:55:50.279
<v Speaker 2>Actually have a photo of him. Oh, he's kind of

0:55:50.280 --> 0:55:53.480
<v Speaker 2>got a hot Zaddi vibe. Oh hell yes, right, so

0:55:53.719 --> 0:55:55.960
<v Speaker 2>we love him. He reads a book about this thing

0:55:56.040 --> 0:55:58.960
<v Speaker 2>happening and he's shocked to learn that like nobody from

0:55:59.000 --> 0:56:01.719
<v Speaker 2>there knows about the meat showers, and he's like, this

0:56:02.040 --> 0:56:04.719
<v Speaker 2>is exciting, and it kind of becomes an obsession of

0:56:04.760 --> 0:56:07.640
<v Speaker 2>his just by luck. A few years later, in two

0:56:07.640 --> 0:56:10.880
<v Speaker 2>thousand and four, he is cleaning out a storage university

0:56:11.000 --> 0:56:14.800
<v Speaker 2>at Transylvania University when he happens upon a small, clear,

0:56:15.480 --> 0:56:18.520
<v Speaker 2>very old vial filled with yellowy liquid. In the liquid

0:56:18.520 --> 0:56:21.840
<v Speaker 2>is suspended a white hunk of something and the faded

0:56:21.880 --> 0:56:26.160
<v Speaker 2>label reads Olympia Springs. Kurt has found at this fucking

0:56:26.239 --> 0:56:28.960
<v Speaker 2>college that he started teaching at, the last known sample

0:56:29.000 --> 0:56:31.680
<v Speaker 2>of the meat and he's overjoyed. I have a photo

0:56:31.760 --> 0:56:33.680
<v Speaker 2>of it, and I have one.

0:56:33.520 --> 0:56:36.600
<v Speaker 1>For you right here, I'll dry Actually the thing behind

0:56:36.640 --> 0:56:39.040
<v Speaker 1>you kind of looks like it. For thirty one dollars,

0:56:39.239 --> 0:56:40.759
<v Speaker 1>get a little bit of that.

0:56:42.120 --> 0:56:44.720
<v Speaker 2>Here's a photo of the vial with the like gross

0:56:45.000 --> 0:56:45.840
<v Speaker 2>tendery looking.

0:56:46.160 --> 0:56:49.040
<v Speaker 1>How much to drink that liquid? I guess for me

0:56:49.200 --> 0:56:51.480
<v Speaker 1>right now in my life, it would have to be

0:56:51.960 --> 0:56:54.919
<v Speaker 1>roughly three million dollars. Yes, yeah, but how much would

0:56:54.920 --> 0:56:56.600
<v Speaker 1>I have to drink? How about a zip.

0:56:56.840 --> 0:56:59.040
<v Speaker 2>Chew that shit in the bottle or drink chew and

0:56:59.120 --> 0:57:01.760
<v Speaker 2>spit out in the bottom in the swallow or drink

0:57:01.800 --> 0:57:02.320
<v Speaker 2>the liquid?

0:57:02.600 --> 0:57:08.239
<v Speaker 1>Pick one, drink the liquid? No, because in you're yeah,

0:57:08.280 --> 0:57:10.560
<v Speaker 1>the chewing is it's just going to give you true

0:57:10.600 --> 0:57:12.799
<v Speaker 1>trauma because you're going to be like, yeah, remembering any

0:57:12.840 --> 0:57:15.680
<v Speaker 1>time you chew anything, and then like infants and stuff.

0:57:16.320 --> 0:57:18.640
<v Speaker 1>But also wouldn't you just die? You also don't have

0:57:18.680 --> 0:57:21.000
<v Speaker 1>to do either of those things. Well now I want

0:57:21.040 --> 0:57:25.080
<v Speaker 1>to I am not even drinking. Okay.

0:57:25.200 --> 0:57:27.880
<v Speaker 2>He's so excited because he's a nerd, and he so

0:57:27.960 --> 0:57:30.400
<v Speaker 2>he works with a professor in the biology department to

0:57:30.480 --> 0:57:32.840
<v Speaker 2>try to test the sample. But it's too degraded and

0:57:32.880 --> 0:57:35.560
<v Speaker 2>they can't find a conclusive finding. It's two thousand and four,

0:57:35.680 --> 0:57:38.200
<v Speaker 2>so it's like the Dark Ages. But Kurt is an artist,

0:57:38.240 --> 0:57:42.280
<v Speaker 2>and he's more interested in the multisensory experience of the phenomenon.

0:57:41.920 --> 0:57:45.919
<v Speaker 1>Drinking and eating it, rather than continuing to pursue clear

0:57:45.960 --> 0:57:46.640
<v Speaker 1>cut answers.

0:57:47.320 --> 0:57:50.120
<v Speaker 2>So he sends the vial to a lab in Cincinnati

0:57:50.240 --> 0:57:54.600
<v Speaker 2>that analyzes flavor compounds. Oh okay, and then he uses

0:57:54.640 --> 0:57:59.760
<v Speaker 2>that flavor information to make jelly beans that essentially tastes

0:57:59.840 --> 0:58:02.720
<v Speaker 2>like whatever it was, to have people help him figure.

0:58:02.480 --> 0:58:05.040
<v Speaker 1>Out what the meat was. I feel like that's a

0:58:05.160 --> 0:58:08.680
<v Speaker 1>very art teacher solution. That's exactly what it is. I

0:58:08.720 --> 0:58:11.919
<v Speaker 1>feel like if I was involved with that, it would

0:58:11.920 --> 0:58:14.000
<v Speaker 1>be on par with the first time I had a

0:58:14.040 --> 0:58:17.720
<v Speaker 1>popcorn jelly belly. Have you ever eaten that flavor? The butter? Yeah,

0:58:17.920 --> 0:58:18.800
<v Speaker 1>buttered popcorn?

0:58:18.840 --> 0:58:20.960
<v Speaker 2>Any like the weird jelly belly flavors that came out

0:58:21.000 --> 0:58:24.080
<v Speaker 2>in the like nineties the kids today, I don't know,

0:58:24.160 --> 0:58:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Like that wasn't a thing for it was just like

0:58:26.120 --> 0:58:29.919
<v Speaker 2>fruit flavored jelly beans. God, I sound so old, but really, really,

0:58:29.960 --> 0:58:32.600
<v Speaker 2>when jelly Belly came out with these like crazy flavors,

0:58:32.640 --> 0:58:34.680
<v Speaker 2>we were our minds were blown. Yes, and then he

0:58:34.800 --> 0:58:37.640
<v Speaker 2>like mixed the coconut with the popcorn one and that

0:58:37.880 --> 0:58:38.680
<v Speaker 2>book yeah.

0:58:39.120 --> 0:58:41.920
<v Speaker 1>In third grade, saying I just had tried to my tie. Yeah.

0:58:41.960 --> 0:58:44.160
<v Speaker 1>But also there was some flavors that were so upsetting

0:58:44.200 --> 0:58:47.280
<v Speaker 1>that like he's basically walking people into come and eat

0:58:47.320 --> 0:58:48.840
<v Speaker 1>and upsetting thing right with me?

0:58:49.080 --> 0:58:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because I want to learn for science for learning sake,

0:58:52.880 --> 0:58:56.840
<v Speaker 2>So it's like adorable, okay, Okay, So he actually passes

0:58:56.920 --> 0:59:00.840
<v Speaker 2>them out. There's a big festival called Kentucky Court, and

0:59:00.880 --> 0:59:04.400
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and seven he passes them out. Responses

0:59:04.400 --> 0:59:07.240
<v Speaker 2>are varied. Multiple people said the beans tasted like bacon.

0:59:07.800 --> 0:59:10.680
<v Speaker 2>Another person said it was like a strawberry pork chop.

0:59:11.200 --> 0:59:13.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh, he's trying to do like everybody gets to have

0:59:13.840 --> 0:59:15.880
<v Speaker 1>a vote to figure out what this is. Yeah, like

0:59:15.880 --> 0:59:18.240
<v Speaker 1>what kind of meat is this? I see? Sorry, I

0:59:18.320 --> 0:59:21.200
<v Speaker 1>was thinking he was doing it scientifically, but also through

0:59:21.280 --> 0:59:21.840
<v Speaker 1>jelly beans.

0:59:22.080 --> 0:59:24.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm just like, I don't know, She's okay, kind of

0:59:24.080 --> 0:59:25.919
<v Speaker 2>fun with the whole thing, love it, but nobody wanted

0:59:25.920 --> 0:59:27.880
<v Speaker 2>to try a second jelly bean to find out how

0:59:27.880 --> 0:59:29.520
<v Speaker 2>bad they were. Yeah, and I think he still has

0:59:29.520 --> 0:59:33.280
<v Speaker 2>some leftover too. Almost twenty years later. So fast forward

0:59:33.360 --> 0:59:35.640
<v Speaker 2>to now and Kurt is still obsessed with the Kentucky

0:59:35.680 --> 0:59:39.720
<v Speaker 2>Meat Shower, and in fact, just last this February that

0:59:39.840 --> 0:59:42.360
<v Speaker 2>just happened in twenty twenty six. It was the one

0:59:42.440 --> 0:59:46.240
<v Speaker 2>hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the Kentucky Meat Shower, and

0:59:46.320 --> 0:59:49.720
<v Speaker 2>he celebrates with a little festival in town which includes

0:59:50.080 --> 0:59:53.160
<v Speaker 2>there's a meat fall toss, there's hot dogs, of course,

0:59:53.480 --> 0:59:55.160
<v Speaker 2>and a blowney throwing contest.

0:59:55.640 --> 0:59:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Like he's just having fun with.

0:59:57.600 --> 1:00:00.120
<v Speaker 2>His great So this whole festival that he create, it

1:00:00.240 --> 1:00:04.560
<v Speaker 2>culminates in the second ever Kentucky Meat Shower. He has

1:00:04.600 --> 1:00:08.640
<v Speaker 2>a small airplane, oh drop eighteen hundred and seventy six,

1:00:08.920 --> 1:00:11.840
<v Speaker 2>which is the year it happened, individually wrapped pieces of

1:00:11.880 --> 1:00:13.400
<v Speaker 2>beef jerky from the sky.

1:00:13.720 --> 1:00:14.680
<v Speaker 1>I love this man.

1:00:14.880 --> 1:00:16.920
<v Speaker 2>There's a video of it. They look like snowflakes the

1:00:16.960 --> 1:00:19.000
<v Speaker 2>way he wraps them when they come down. It's so

1:00:19.480 --> 1:00:21.680
<v Speaker 2>it's so whimsical.

1:00:21.400 --> 1:00:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Yes, right, and fun yeah yeah.

1:00:24.440 --> 1:00:27.000
<v Speaker 2>And each package has a number on it and then

1:00:27.080 --> 1:00:29.120
<v Speaker 2>the people who pick them up can go to his website,

1:00:29.160 --> 1:00:33.439
<v Speaker 2>which is called Fleshfalls dot com and claim prizes based

1:00:33.480 --> 1:00:35.640
<v Speaker 2>on those numbers, including a gift card to a local

1:00:35.680 --> 1:00:37.960
<v Speaker 2>cafe nice like get me out of la is what

1:00:38.080 --> 1:00:40.120
<v Speaker 2>I think? That's what this is a plea yes me

1:00:40.440 --> 1:00:43.439
<v Speaker 2>exactly and a necklace by a local artist, as well

1:00:43.520 --> 1:00:48.040
<v Speaker 2>as a signed book by humorist, author and journalist Dave Barry,

1:00:48.720 --> 1:00:52.160
<v Speaker 2>who wrote about the event in his sub stack assumed

1:00:52.280 --> 1:00:57.560
<v Speaker 2>charmed by it. So the specimen is now housed in

1:00:57.680 --> 1:01:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Transylvania use Monroe O Sick Medical and Science Museum.

1:01:02.840 --> 1:01:05.880
<v Speaker 1>If you work at the Monroe Medical, Music and Medical

1:01:05.880 --> 1:01:08.480
<v Speaker 1>Science Museum, will you please reach out to us because

1:01:08.600 --> 1:01:12.080
<v Speaker 1>we want to hear Are you real? Is Transylvania reel?

1:01:12.760 --> 1:01:13.560
<v Speaker 1>Is any of this real?

1:01:13.680 --> 1:01:15.760
<v Speaker 2>Can we have a private tour? And will you send

1:01:15.840 --> 1:01:17.520
<v Speaker 2>us merch? And will you send us meatsticks?

1:01:17.680 --> 1:01:20.520
<v Speaker 1>Will you send us merge? I wan't worch Transylvania College

1:01:20.560 --> 1:01:21.400
<v Speaker 1>sweaters please.

1:01:21.640 --> 1:01:24.920
<v Speaker 2>Dave Barry writes about it that the museum quote houses

1:01:24.960 --> 1:01:29.320
<v Speaker 2>many nineteenth century scientific and medical artifacts, including a hairball

1:01:29.440 --> 1:01:32.400
<v Speaker 2>fourteen inches in diameter that was removed from the stomach

1:01:32.400 --> 1:01:36.920
<v Speaker 2>of a cow, uh huh, and a quote tobacco smoke clister,

1:01:37.360 --> 1:01:39.680
<v Speaker 2>which is a device that doctors once use to try

1:01:39.680 --> 1:01:43.040
<v Speaker 2>to revive drowning victims by blowing tobacco smoke.

1:01:42.920 --> 1:01:45.480
<v Speaker 1>Up their butts. No, and then he writes, I am

1:01:45.520 --> 1:01:48.200
<v Speaker 1>not making any of this up. That sounds like it's

1:01:48.200 --> 1:01:52.080
<v Speaker 1>the Muture Museum or the Yeah, I don't know, but

1:01:52.200 --> 1:01:55.400
<v Speaker 1>like a medical history museum is a fascinating for sure,

1:01:55.480 --> 1:01:56.840
<v Speaker 1>especially a small one.

1:01:56.920 --> 1:02:02.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, specialized and Dracula and Trendsylvania. I'm going to end

1:02:02.800 --> 1:02:06.160
<v Speaker 2>on a quote from Dave Barry that he has defined

1:02:06.200 --> 1:02:08.600
<v Speaker 2>a sense of humor as quote, a measurement of the

1:02:08.640 --> 1:02:11.400
<v Speaker 2>extent to which we realize that we are trapped in

1:02:11.440 --> 1:02:15.240
<v Speaker 2>the world, almost totally devoid of reason. Laughter is how

1:02:15.240 --> 1:02:18.240
<v Speaker 2>we express the anxiety we feel at this knowledge.

1:02:18.520 --> 1:02:21.520
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Dave, And that is the story of the Kentucky meat.

1:02:21.320 --> 1:02:25.520
<v Speaker 2>Shower fuck on a True crime murder podcast.

1:02:25.640 --> 1:02:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Hell, yes, you're ten. You're ten. In the fall of fascism,

1:02:29.680 --> 1:02:32.400
<v Speaker 1>when the world around us has turned to living hats.

1:02:32.160 --> 1:02:35.640
<v Speaker 2>Right, when women are getting imprisoned for taking out We're

1:02:35.680 --> 1:02:36.200
<v Speaker 2>not going.

1:02:36.040 --> 1:02:38.200
<v Speaker 1>There, I mean Jesus, but we are there. We don't

1:02:38.200 --> 1:02:41.840
<v Speaker 1>have to go anywhere. We're fucking here. Yes, We've been

1:02:41.920 --> 1:02:44.440
<v Speaker 1>talking about it for a while, and in the meantime

1:02:44.480 --> 1:02:46.400
<v Speaker 1>of all this bullshit, we're going to tell each other

1:02:46.480 --> 1:02:51.200
<v Speaker 1>about delightful things, Right, and horrible things. Yeah, and things

1:02:51.200 --> 1:02:52.560
<v Speaker 1>we feel we need to know.

1:02:52.720 --> 1:02:55.120
<v Speaker 2>As of yesterday, we are no longer the only true

1:02:55.200 --> 1:02:57.600
<v Speaker 2>crime podcast, so you're welcome to listen.

1:02:57.920 --> 1:03:00.840
<v Speaker 1>Did that just happen? Yeah, there's a couple more popped up. Yeah.

1:03:00.840 --> 1:03:03.280
<v Speaker 1>We had a great run. Yeah, being the only ones. Yeah.

1:03:03.600 --> 1:03:06.400
<v Speaker 1>Now we're going to be doing this weird shit. Yeah,

1:03:06.480 --> 1:03:10.120
<v Speaker 1>so we buckle the fuck up. People are like we are.

1:03:10.360 --> 1:03:12.600
<v Speaker 1>We listened to the end of this episode. You want

1:03:12.680 --> 1:03:14.200
<v Speaker 1>us to do? Why are you mad at that? How

1:03:14.280 --> 1:03:16.000
<v Speaker 1>much more do we have to listen to you? Oh?

1:03:16.120 --> 1:03:16.800
<v Speaker 1>We love you guys.

1:03:16.840 --> 1:03:18.840
<v Speaker 2>If you've listened to this point, you're a real one

1:03:18.960 --> 1:03:21.040
<v Speaker 2>and here we fucking appreciate the shit out of you.

1:03:21.240 --> 1:03:23.439
<v Speaker 2>You're the realist one and we're all trying and you're

1:03:23.440 --> 1:03:23.959
<v Speaker 2>doing great.

1:03:24.160 --> 1:03:29.040
<v Speaker 1>Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Good by, Elvis. Do

1:03:29.040 --> 1:03:39.040
<v Speaker 1>you want a cookie? This has been an exactly right production.

1:03:39.240 --> 1:03:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer

1:03:42.000 --> 1:03:42.760
<v Speaker 2>is Tessa Hughes.

1:03:42.840 --> 1:03:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Our editor is Aristotle Ascevedo. This episode was mixed by

1:03:46.080 --> 1:03:49.800
<v Speaker 1>Leona Squalocci. Our researchers are Mary McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1:03:49.960 --> 1:03:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot.

1:03:52.680 --> 1:03:55.480
<v Speaker 1>Com and follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

1:03:55.520 --> 1:03:58.360
<v Speaker 2>Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1:03:58.400 --> 1:03:59.959
<v Speaker 2>Podcasts or wherever you get your pope.

1:04:00.360 --> 1:04:02.760
<v Speaker 1>And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.

1:04:02.880 --> 1:04:04.960
<v Speaker 2>And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and

1:04:05.000 --> 1:04:07.480
<v Speaker 2>the remind Me buttons. That's the best way you can

1:04:07.520 --> 1:04:08.560
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1:04:08.600 --> 1:04:12.400
<v Speaker 1>Goodbye,