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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hartstars,

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Speaker 1: that's Karen Kilgarriff, and we've got some surprises in store

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Speaker 1: for you today. Bloody vacation nail he oh, those are

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Speaker 1: the longest I've ever seen. Your name, not mine.

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Speaker 2: They're like literally vacation nails that I'm obsessed with.

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Speaker 1: Will you throw up those nails to your camera as

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Speaker 1: we are on Netflix and show the world.

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Speaker 2: They're gel x and they just make you feel like.

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Speaker 1: A grown up. Yeah, they look really nice.

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Speaker 2: My nails have always been like junior high school and

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Speaker 2: now I'm like in my thirties working at a law firm.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, congratulations, when'd you get that job? When

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Speaker 1: I got that, they came with the nails exactly wow,

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Speaker 1: because my nails are the manicure I gave myself at

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Speaker 1: the last minute because I couldn't somehow get to the

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Speaker 1: manni petty salaun. Show your camera, well, no, because it's

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Speaker 1: it's just dire because it now looks like a French manicure.

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Speaker 1: But that's not how it started. That's how kind of old.

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Speaker 1: I also always immediately smudged my right thumb. Always so irritating.

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Speaker 1: Life is hard. Yeah, are you having any since you've

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Speaker 1: been back from your trip to Italy? Which, now that

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Speaker 1: you're a travel influencer, I think we should discuss all

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Speaker 1: of your opinions and likes and dislikes. Finally, thank you

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Speaker 1: can let me. Is anything staying with you that you

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Speaker 1: miss about being on that trip or like your Italian experience?

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Speaker 2: You know what I miss which was really nice, which

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Speaker 2: probably gets old after a while, but it's only two weeks.

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Speaker 2: Is dressing for dinner because they have that period between

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Speaker 2: the afternoon and the evening where nobody does anything. You

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Speaker 2: take a nap, and then you have to put on

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Speaker 2: like a dress for dinner. You can't wear tennis shoes,

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Speaker 2: and it's just like made everything feel so much more special.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I loved that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, it was incredible at a really good,

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Speaker 2: beautiful time. Milan is like incredible. I'd go back there immediately. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we stay with My mom texts me a thing of

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Speaker 2: like don't wear your Star of David again.

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Speaker 1: She texted me these things.

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Speaker 2: If I've ever had a jewelry, Yes, she said, don't

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Speaker 2: wear your Star of David, like keep it low key

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Speaker 2: that you're Jewish, as if that's not what I already do.

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Speaker 2: But then we found out we were staying at a

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Speaker 2: hotel where Mussolini had stayed before.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's like I can't tell her that that.

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Speaker 1: You're like, look, I'm seeing their side of things. No,

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Speaker 1: that's not good. But also, you can't get away from

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Speaker 1: a city's history. You can't. You know, it's not your fault, right,

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Speaker 1: but the really nice hotel was also his way. My

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Speaker 1: fault was lots of things are my fault in my mind.

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Speaker 1: World War two, though, I don't you can let yourself

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Speaker 1: off the hook for that one. I mean, it must

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Speaker 1: be a huge relief, it is. What's up with you?

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Speaker 1: I've just been wearing a star David around. See what

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Speaker 1: I can kick? Not much? You know. We went on

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Speaker 1: vacation obviously, you know, at the same time, but I

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Speaker 1: did a staycasion and truly just tried to do nothing.

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Speaker 1: Literally lay on the couch and pull a blanket up

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Speaker 1: to my chin, like it was the middle of winter.

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Speaker 1: Any chance I could? I love it? Did you bringe

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Speaker 1: Widow's Bay? Oh? Yeah, And now I'm in the watching

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Speaker 1: people react to how much they love Widow's Bay on

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Speaker 1: social media, which is such like it's becoming this new

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Speaker 1: way that we all watched TV. Yeah, where it's just

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Speaker 1: as satisfying for me to watch people get excited to go.

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Speaker 1: Here's what I think that it.

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Speaker 2: Was my favorite. I fucked the whole thing up there.

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Speaker 2: Here's the negative side of that. I watched a spoiler

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Speaker 2: on accident and knew that last bit, that last exciting

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Speaker 2: bit I accidentally watched a fucking like it's the whole

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Speaker 2: turning point of the show.

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Speaker 1: But when you went in knowing it, when.

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Speaker 2: She goes about you know I was pregnant. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: knew what happened. And at the beginning of that episode,

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Speaker 2: before even halpened, I go, I get why that matters

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Speaker 2: because I thought it was just like a regular random

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Speaker 2: scene that I was to laugh at. It was the

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Speaker 2: whole point of the fucking show. Yes, and I knew,

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Speaker 2: and I was so bummed, like Vince gasped and I

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Speaker 2: wanted to.

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Speaker 1: Guess to And also the danger of when we get

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Speaker 1: all this stuff through social media, you can't control that

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Speaker 1: someone's about to give you a spoiler, as we do

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Speaker 1: on this show constantly.

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Speaker 2: That wasn't a spoiler and you should totally watch it.

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Speaker 1: But but I mean, like you that there's a backwards

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Speaker 1: way that like I always seem to end up consuming

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Speaker 1: like a TV show. The way I hate the most,

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Speaker 1: which is you know all the big moments before you

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Speaker 1: go in, then you're kind of judging. You have to

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Speaker 1: see them at that point you know the story, right.

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Speaker 1: But I would argue that with Widow's Bay, they're doing

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Speaker 1: so much. They work so hard to easter egg and storyline.

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Speaker 1: I watched a woman lay out this whole idea, and

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Speaker 1: we will in our social media, we'll post her video

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Speaker 1: and we will give her the full credit because it's

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Speaker 1: a really brilliant thing she noticed, which is that time

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Speaker 1: is all screwed up in Widow's Bay, like the calendar

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Speaker 1: as a car accident on us, and that in her theory,

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Speaker 1: she's like, actually, lead, these three episodes all happened in

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Speaker 1: one day, but you don't realize it. If you think

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Speaker 1: about it, you can't tell when a thing is actually happening.

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Speaker 1: You're not sure. And she introduced all these kind of

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Speaker 1: doubts about, oh, that's right in the time where he's

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Speaker 1: got the wolves calendar, but then he opens the month

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Speaker 1: that they're in and it's the car accident, so random,

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Speaker 1: like there's so many easter eggs about you assume you

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Speaker 1: think you know what's going on and how, and it's

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Speaker 1: going to start like it's what's the comedian's name who

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Speaker 1: plays the shaman?

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Speaker 2: It's just like the best, Oh, Chris Fleming, it's just

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Speaker 2: the best, you know, five minutes of TV.

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Speaker 1: It's so good, Chris Fleming, He's so perfect. It's okay,

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Speaker 1: just drink it slowly, he goes. I just understand.

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Speaker 2: This is not it should be a Widow's Bay Rewatch podcast.

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Speaker 1: Just for the next four years we turn it into

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Speaker 1: you have a true crime update. There's a true crime update,

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Speaker 1: and it's just plain good news, which when in the

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Speaker 1: ten years we've been doing this podcast, as that ever happens. Rex,

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Speaker 1: the Gilgo Beach murderer, on Wednesday, June seventeenth, was sentenced

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Speaker 1: to life in prison without the possibility of parole for

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Speaker 1: the murders of Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelemy Amberlyn Costello, Maureen

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Speaker 1: Brainerd Barnes, Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, Sandra Cristia and Karen Vergatta.

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Speaker 1: And he initially denied these charges and he was set

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Speaker 1: to go to trial, but basically he changed his plea

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Speaker 1: to guilty in April, and now he is in jail.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm glad that is over with and he

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Speaker 2: can go rotten.

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Speaker 1: Hell. Yeah. Wow. It's always strange when it ends and

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Speaker 1: you know the reality and it is the big ghost,

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Speaker 1: the big monster, that mysterious monster is just some horrible man.

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Speaker 2: Some small little man, the coward. Yeah, that's why I

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Speaker 2: love cold cases. It's like, let's not make them this big,

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Speaker 2: you know, powerful being.

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Speaker 1: It's just some fucking dad.

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Speaker 2: From Long Island who sucks you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, not good. Okay, should we get into it?

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Speaker 1: You mean talk about our network? Sure?

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Speaker 2: Hey, we have a podcast network. It's called exactly right Media.

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Speaker 2: Here are some headlines.

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Speaker 1: Let's here's some headlights. Nope, here are some highlights. Here's

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Speaker 1: some highlights. This week on our podcast Bananas Curtain, Scottie

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Speaker 1: discuss whether all the water on Earth has already been

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Speaker 1: peed in. They talk about a world cut trophy bong

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Speaker 1: that landed a headshop in legal trouble and everything between

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Speaker 1: and then over.

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Speaker 2: On Ghosted, Roz is joined by comedian and Taro queen

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Speaker 2: our friend Lizzie Cooperman. They shuffle the cards while discussing

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Speaker 2: Yes No Later, manifestations, hermit Crabs, and one lingering question,

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Speaker 2: when will Roz.

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Speaker 1: Become more famous? Well, we kind of have the answer

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Speaker 1: to that right because Roz just released her new audio book.

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Speaker 1: It is her memoir and it's entitled Peeing in an

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Speaker 1: Empty Bottle and Other Glamorous Shenanigans of an almost famous

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Speaker 1: transgender comedian on the Road, and that book is out now.

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Speaker 1: It blends stories obviously from her cross country comedy tour

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Speaker 1: with exclusive stand up and behind the scenes audio. So

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Speaker 1: if you want to support Roz, she is an incredible

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Speaker 1: stand upcomic, hilarious podcaster. We love her obviously member of

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Speaker 1: our family here, but also just like an entertainer to

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Speaker 1: beat the.

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Speaker 2: Band, Rosca is gonna be great, ros Hernandez find it then.

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Speaker 2: This week on trust Me, Lola and Megan are joined

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Speaker 2: by doctor Christine Marie, Lola's mom.

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Speaker 1: Who was also the podcast's very first guest.

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Speaker 2: She shares how she went undercover with the FBI to

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Speaker 2: help bring down self proclaimed profit Sam Bateman. So if

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Speaker 2: you watch Trust Me on Netflix, this is what we're

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Speaker 2: talking about. And you can also watch the full video

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Speaker 2: episode now at YouTube dot com. Slash exactly right.

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Speaker 1: Media. Karen goes first. So my story today begins on

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Speaker 1: March first, seventeen seventy eight. Are you ready? No, so

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Speaker 1: long ago, so long ago. We're talking about an area

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Speaker 1: that I truly and literally know almost nothing about except

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Speaker 1: for this story, which is the Revolutionary War era of America.

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Speaker 1: Got it. I know that you can't correct me in it,

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Speaker 1: any of these mistakes I'm about to make right now.

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Speaker 1: That's why we do this podcast together again. My excuse

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Speaker 1: is that I changed schools fifth to sixth grade. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's got it. Yeah, that's hard. They learned about stuff

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Speaker 1: like that in the fifth grade at my new school

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Speaker 1: and in the sixth grade at my old school. We're

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Speaker 1: preaching to the choir Roman numerals. I was sick that day.

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Speaker 1: All the presidents not my business, none of my business,

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Speaker 1: not really never brought up. I didn't vote for them.

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Speaker 1: I didn't get to see pictures of them all around

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Speaker 1: the walls all year long. Okay, So March first, seventeen

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Speaker 1: seventy eight, we are in Brookfield, Massachusetts, west of Woosta,

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Speaker 1: and it's a snowy night around nine o'clock. Most of

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Speaker 1: the locals in Brookfield are either at home sitting in

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Speaker 1: front of the fire, or they've already gotten into bed

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Speaker 1: under their thick quilts and blankets because it's so cold outside.

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Speaker 1: But a local, wealthy, local businessman, thirty seven year old

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Speaker 1: Joshua Spooner, he's outside in the elements because he spent

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Speaker 1: the last few hours at the local tavern and now

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Speaker 1: he's making the quarter mile walk home down Brookfield's main road.

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Speaker 1: It's dark outside, almost no moonlight. He's holding a lantern

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Speaker 1: because this is old fashioned times and that's required at night.

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Speaker 1: So choky, right man, Hello, Hello, And first the beginning

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Speaker 1: of his walk, he is with his friend, doctor Jonathan King,

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Speaker 1: who is the town's physician. The doctor splits off in

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Speaker 1: the direction of his house when they come to the

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Speaker 1: fork in the road, and then Joshua continues on by himself,

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Speaker 1: eventually making it to his very stately two story home,

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Speaker 1: which is one of the nicest in Brookfield. He climbs

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Speaker 1: a set of stone steps that take him from the

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Speaker 1: street up onto his property. He unlatches his front gate,

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Speaker 1: and then he heads back toward one of the back

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Speaker 1: entrances of the house. He never makes it inside. Instead,

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Speaker 1: Joshua Spooner's body will be discovered, beaten, strangled, and stuffed

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Speaker 1: down his well. What Yes, this is the story of

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Speaker 1: the murder of Joshua Spooner, which is one of the

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Speaker 1: very first high profile murder cases in America. Dude, seventeen

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Speaker 1: seventy eight, at that vintage murder, right, happy fourth of July,

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Speaker 1: eary budd, that's right. While we are lighting off firecrackers

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Speaker 1: and trying to dissociate, let's remember how this country started

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Speaker 1: with extreme violence on a day to day basis. True

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Speaker 1: crime isn't new now. The main source of today's story

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Speaker 1: is the research and writing of Deborah Novice, and the

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Speaker 1: rest of the sources are in our show notes. So

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Speaker 1: it's seventeen seventy eight. Only two years have passed since

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Speaker 1: the signing of the Declaration of Independence. We're in deep

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Speaker 1: early history for us, kind of nauseating. It feels like

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Speaker 1: you haven't eaten lunch, but you have to listen to

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Speaker 1: the teacher, keep talking. The Revolutionary War has continued and

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Speaker 1: will continue for five more years. It's been going for

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Speaker 1: about two and a half three So the American Revolution

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Speaker 1: is the backdrop for this whole case. The colonies are

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Speaker 1: fear divided at this time between patriots and loyalists, and

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Speaker 1: Joshua Spooner, this murder victim, was a supporter of the

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Speaker 1: Patriot cause. That cause is especially strong and well supported

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Speaker 1: in New England. At this point in the Revolutionary War,

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Speaker 1: British leadership has been driven out of Massachusetts. The colony

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Speaker 1: is now governed by Revolutionary leaders. One of the highest

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Speaker 1: ranking officials is Joshua's stepbrother, a man named John Avery Junior.

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Speaker 1: So the problem is, Joshua has a prominent loyalist in

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Speaker 1: his family. His father in law, Brigadier General Timothy Ruggles

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Speaker 1: cute right, little Timmy Ruggles Kins. His father in law

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Speaker 1: his wife's Bathsheba's father. So Bathsheba Ruggles is the woman

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Speaker 1: that Joshua's married. Joshua Spooner, bring that name back, Bathsheba,

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Speaker 1: You're in witch. You're immediately a witch. You're a witch

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Speaker 1: er your Bible lady, congratulations, like one of two things

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Speaker 1: in this story which so before the revolution, Timothy Ruggles

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Speaker 1: was a very powerful man. He held a bunch of

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Speaker 1: important political posts in Massachusetts while under British rule. So

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Speaker 1: when the revolution started, colonists began to embrace the Patriot cause.

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Speaker 1: Timothy Ruggles stays committed to the British Crown. Huge mistake

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Speaker 1: in Worcesta. So in the mid seventeen seventies, Timothy Ruggles

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Speaker 1: goes to New York to join the British Army.

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Speaker 2: That's how much he commits, literally wrong side of history.

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Speaker 1: Bra read the fucking room, dude of Massachusetts. It's a

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Speaker 1: room as wide as Massachusetts. So obviously bad for his

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Speaker 1: reputation in New England. So soon Timothy Ruggles is considered

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Speaker 1: one of the most despised political figures in revolutionary massachuests

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Speaker 1: who so would you compare him to these days? Donald Trump?

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Speaker 1: May sounds right? So this was that a little too fast.

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Speaker 1: So all of this has created serious tension in the

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Speaker 1: Spooner household between Joshua and his wife, Bathsheba. She is

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Speaker 1: very very close with her father, Timothy Ruggles, and there

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Speaker 1: are four Ruggles daughters, but Bathsheba has always been known

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Speaker 1: to be her father's favorite. She's also suspected of sharing

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Speaker 1: his political leanings. So when he leaves town basically to

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Speaker 1: join with the British, Joshua forbids his wife from having

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Speaker 1: any communication with her disgrace turn coat father, and of

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Speaker 1: course she is devastated you.

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Speaker 2: Got have discussed politics before you get married. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I can get on the same.

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Speaker 1: Page before you get Well, here's the real gossip about

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Speaker 1: this story is that this relationship has never been good. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it was basically engineered in seventeen sixty six as a

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Speaker 1: political arrangement hashed out by their wealthy fathers. Timothy saw

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Speaker 1: the political writing on the wall and he knew his

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Speaker 1: loyalist sympathies could someday cause harm to his beloved Bathsheba.

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Speaker 2: And I was kidding about that because women don't get

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Speaker 2: to choose their politics or their husbands back then. So

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Speaker 2: discussing politics before you get married, he designing if you

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Speaker 2: want to marry them or not is not an option?

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Speaker 1: Not being serious, No, no, no, it's not only not an option.

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Speaker 1: It was literally like, how dare you? You couldn't suggest

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Speaker 1: that you would be backhanded and told to go make

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Speaker 1: a sandwich, right and then you have sliced bread. So

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Speaker 1: imagine that. I mean back before the internet, they were

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Speaker 1: still doing that. So when Bathsheba was around twenty years old,

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Speaker 1: she was married off into the Spooner family, who were

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Speaker 1: wealthy Boston merchants. Because basically Timothy ruggles knew his daughter

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Speaker 1: would be protected socially and financially. But both Joshua and

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Speaker 1: Bathsheba grew up incredibly privileged in aristocratic families. They both

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Speaker 1: had generational power, and Bathsheba is roundly described to be

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Speaker 1: exceptionally beautiful. Josh meanwhile, is a successful lumberman. So there's

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Speaker 1: on paper they were supposed to make a perfect couple, right,

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Speaker 1: she brings all the gorgeousness, he's money. In reality, they're

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Speaker 1: just a miserable pair because despite the gender norms dictating quiet,

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Speaker 1: dutiful wives of the time, Bathsheba is headstrong. She's rash,

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Speaker 1: and she is free spirited, and she's said to have

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Speaker 1: quote passions that have never been properly restrained. Same and right. Yeah. Meanwhile, Joshua,

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Speaker 1: her husband, is described in old records as quote frequently drunk.

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Speaker 1: There you go, right. He's also unfaithful to his wife.

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Speaker 1: He is suspected of being physically abusive to his wife.

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Speaker 1: And one of the few surviving direct quotes we have

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Speaker 1: from either spooner is one where Bathsheba describes her feelings

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Speaker 1: about her husband with just two words utter aversion.

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Speaker 2: So she would have said same after always drunk, like

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Speaker 2: I would have been soaked. Do it again, go again.

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Speaker 1: And he is described in old records as quote frequently drunk.

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Speaker 1: Same by seventeen seventy thank you, thank you for indulgent. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's fun. Yet the couple has, as were the practices

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Speaker 1: of the times, the couple has four children together, bummer.

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Speaker 1: Only three of those children survive to adulthood, and years later,

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Speaker 1: one of the adult spooner sons will be heard calling

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Speaker 1: his father quote old bogus, ooh, yeah, she's like such

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Speaker 1: an insult back then, such an eighteenth century dig that

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Speaker 1: historians say suggests his children did not respect him very much.

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Speaker 1: So by seventeen seventy seven, it's been more than a

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Speaker 1: decade into this miserable marriage, and the relationship is as

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Speaker 1: bad as it will ever be. They detest each other.

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Speaker 1: But on top of that, Bathsheba is struggling terribly personally.

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Speaker 1: She's isolated because she has to hide at home because

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Speaker 1: her father is such a pariah.

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Speaker 2: Yea.

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Speaker 1: But then hiding at home, she's there with this miserable marriage,

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Speaker 1: no support, you know, so many kids, so many kids.

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Speaker 1: So in March of that year, a stranger is passing

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Speaker 1: by the front of the spooner home, and it's a

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Speaker 1: Continental soldier who's just completed a year of service in

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Speaker 1: George Washington's army. And this is how cinemax start. That's

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Speaker 1: the first cinemax kick in those saxophones from the Revolutionary

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Speaker 1: or Derek Pictures? Was he hot? We don't have pictures

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Speaker 1: of the Continental Soldier. I'm about to tell you this

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Speaker 1: picture who Jacob Alordie. Let me give you a little

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Speaker 1: more information, okay, and then we're going to cast him

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Speaker 1: because his name is Ezra Ross and he's sixteen years old. Okay, everyone,

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Speaker 1: how old is? She's just grown? He's thirty two. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's illegal. It is illegal. I'm not sure a colonial law.

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Speaker 1: So as we go, you can maybe think about who

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Speaker 1: could be cast as a sixteen year old? What do

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Speaker 1: you know?

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Speaker 2: He's aa, I feel like he would be. He's casting everything. Yes,

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Speaker 2: he looks like a teenager, very true, But.

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Speaker 1: Like, how old are your nephews? Who's Mike is sixteen? Yeah? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Oh gross? Right? Oh gross? Yeah? The reality of a

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Speaker 1: sixteen year old no as opposed to a shalome? Right,

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Speaker 1: So it's so funny. Okay, So he's on break between

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Speaker 1: military duties walking by. He was in a new here's

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Speaker 1: the army encampment, and he has to walk home to Ipswich, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 1: which is essentially a three hundred mile walk round trip.

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Speaker 1: Bro Hitchhiking wasn't invented yet because the cart's right, it's

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Speaker 1: too slow, right, they just knock you off. Also, it's

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Speaker 1: the winter, right, so it's worst case scenario for this

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Speaker 1: young soldier. And to complicate it even more, he's dealing

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Speaker 1: with the lingering effects of what was probably the flu

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Speaker 1: that he caught at camp. So he's on a long

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Speaker 1: winter walk kind of getting over a bad flu. It's

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Speaker 1: unclear whether he approached the Spooner House out of desperation

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Speaker 1: or whether somebody in the Spooner House saw him passing

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Speaker 1: and realized he needed help. Either way, the Spooners welcome

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Speaker 1: Ezra into their home. The sick young man is put

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Speaker 1: to bed Bathsheba begins to nurse him back to hell,

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Speaker 1: feeding him and tending to him.

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Speaker 2: In what side is he and he's not on the

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Speaker 2: British side.

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Speaker 1: He's the American side, right, yeah, So it's like it's

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Speaker 1: like forbidden for her too, because like her dad is

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Speaker 1: super and the British. Yeah, you know, she's like, not

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Speaker 1: what sixteen? Fuck man, it just keeps getting ruined. It's

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Speaker 1: so ruined. But it also it's like it's a sixteen

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Speaker 1: year old. She's just being asked to live like a man.

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Speaker 1: So there is that might help it a little more,

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Speaker 1: that he is actually taking on the horrors and responsibilities

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Speaker 1: of being in the army and fighting a war. If

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Speaker 1: only he were twenty. But he does have the lama

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Speaker 1: curl at the front of his hair, the way all

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Speaker 1: the sixteen year olds do these days.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Oh so sorry, wow, really pop that so loud?

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Speaker 1: Okay. Taking in soldiers who are walking long distances after

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Speaker 1: military stints is not uncommon in revolutionary war times. What

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Speaker 1: sets this encounter apart is that that time it takes

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Speaker 1: for Ezra, almost said Timothy Chalamey. That time it takes

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Speaker 1: for Ezra to recover. We don't know exactly how long

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Speaker 1: it is. We can assume it was at least a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks, because he has to, you know, fully

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Speaker 1: recover whatever. But in that time, thirty one year old

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Speaker 1: Bathsheba Spooner, this adolescent soldier, develop what a tasteful person

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Speaker 1: would call a uniquely strong bond. But what we can all,

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Speaker 1: maybe in our Bravo minds, assume, was fucking so the

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Speaker 1: age difference. We don't want to be calling things affairs

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Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, right, And also just let's not spend

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Speaker 1: the time getting into all that discussion. Here's what we know.

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Speaker 1: It's unclear if they start by having a physical affair.

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Speaker 1: They have definitely started an emotional affair though, and it's

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Speaker 1: a secret, which makes it even hotter. No one has

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Speaker 1: any idea what's going on, especially Joshua Spooner, who has

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Speaker 1: actually developed his own friendship with Ezra. So Ezra playing

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Speaker 1: both sides, that's right, and getting some soup while he

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Speaker 1: on his long journey home doing what he's got to do.

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Speaker 1: At some point, Ezra's health improves enough so that the

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Speaker 1: Spooner send him back on the road to Ipswich, but

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Speaker 1: he never forgets Passheba within a month, thirty one year

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Speaker 1: old woman, some hot milf. That's like, let me take care.

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Speaker 1: He's like, I'll be seeing you within weeks. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: Within months, he's called back to military service. But then

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Speaker 1: when he gets leave, he comes and visits the Spooners

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Speaker 1: in Brookfield. So it's a little less than a year

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Speaker 1: later now January seventeen seventy eight, and Bathsheba has news

403
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Speaker 1: for Ezra. On his next visit, he comes to see

404
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Speaker 1: the spooners and she pulls him aside and is like,

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Speaker 1: I bregged it. Oh shit, uh huh, Now I wanted

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Speaker 1: to act that up for I loved it. She yanks

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Speaker 1: him into the pantry and then has to push him

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Speaker 1: Ba out because they have to act normal. So it's

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Speaker 1: assumed by historians that given her like on the record

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Speaker 1: utter aversion with her husband, that they weren't probably having sex,

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Speaker 1: and that probably Ezra is the father of this baby.

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Speaker 1: Bathsheba's definitely panicked, and writer Debora Novas puts it this

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Speaker 1: way quote divorces were all but impossible for women in

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Speaker 1: revolutionary America, and adulteresses were stripped to the waist and

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Speaker 1: publicly whipped Jesus, so she is truly panicking. During one

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Speaker 1: of Ezra's visits, Bathsheba asks him to poison her husband

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Speaker 1: with aquafortis or also known as nitric acid. It's an

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Speaker 1: extremely corrosive acid used to dissolve tough materials like metal,

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Speaker 1: and unlike other poisons from these old stories like arsenic

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Speaker 1: Aquafortis has an incredibly strong and very terrible taste, so

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Speaker 1: it's a bad idea to use to begin with. But

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Speaker 1: Ezra's just a sophomore in love with having sex with

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Speaker 1: an old lady, so he does it. He's like, sounds

424
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: good to me. He poisons Joshua's drink. So problem is,

425
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: when Joshua takes a sip of that drink, it's literally

426
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 1: like who put gasoline in my tea? He immediately tastes

427
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: the poison, spits out the mouthful, dumps the drink. So

428
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: then basically, for the rest of Ezra's stay, he keeps

429
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: trying to poison Joshua and can't get it done. Oh folly,

430
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: I mean right, the hilarious back and forth of all

431
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: the things that Ezra has to spit out and be like,

432
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: I this taste is driving me crazy. So basically, by

433
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: the end, Ezra gets cold feet about this whole scheme.

434
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 1: His visit ends without a poisoning taking place, and he

435
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: leaves Bathsheba to carry out that plan for herself. So

436
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: a few weeks later, February seventeen seventy eight, Joshua is

437
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: away on a business trip. Bathsheba spots two British soldiers

438
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: passing by the front of the house. They are Private

439
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: William Brooks, who's in his late twenties and Sergeant James Buchanan,

440
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: who is in his mid thirties. Okay, so we're age

441
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 1: appropriate now now, yes, we're getting into some adults involving adults.

442
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: Basheba sends out one of her workers basically to intercept

443
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: them and offer them a place to sleep and food

444
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: to eat, and they're very grateful to come inside. And

445
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: when they do, Basheba learns they're British deserters who are

446
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 1: trying to get home by way of Canada. So basically

447
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 1: they're just trying to escape America alive to get home. So,

448
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: sensing her opportunity, Bathsheba offers them clothing in cash if

449
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: they kill her husband when he comes back from his

450
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 1: business dresses. Some sources say she offers them one thousand

451
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: dollars wow, which in today's money from seventeen seventy eight

452
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: to twenty twenty six, twelve thousand, twenty five thousand, there's

453
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: a lot of money. That's a lot of money. So

454
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: they accept, and when they do, Bathsheba writes to Ezra, hey,

455
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: when you graduate from High School come back here because

456
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: the plan is afoot So by the time Joshua Spooner

457
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 1: gets back from his business trip to Brookfield, these British

458
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: soldiers have been staying in their house in the Spooner

459
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: House for more than a week, sleeping in nice beds,

460
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: eating great food whenever they want, running up an enormous

461
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: tab at the local tavern under Joshua Spooner's name the

462
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: whole nine. Joshua finds this out. He's irate at his

463
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: wife for letting these British soldiers into their home. He

464
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: kicks them out, but William and James don't go anywhere.

465
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: They just hang around town lurkin laying low, waiting for

466
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: the opportunity to strike. And then, on February twenty eighth,

467
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: Ezra Ross quietly arrives back in Brookfield and joins up

468
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: with the two British soldiers. This and now we're back

469
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: to the day this all started, which is the cold

470
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: dark knight of March first, and thirty seven year old

471
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: Joshua Spooner just arriving from home from the tavern around

472
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: nine o'clock that night, he goes on to his property.

473
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: He approaches the back entrance and that's where Ezra, William

474
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 1: and James appear out of the darkness and ambush him.

475
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: They beat him and they strangle him to death. Jesus.

476
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: Then they carry his body over to the well and

477
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: they throw him down into it headfirst. And the idea

478
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: is that because Joshua has a reputation for heavy drinking,

479
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: people will think he accidentally stumbled and fell into the well.

480
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, from a fall. It just all of it

481
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: in our forensic files. I know how these days it's

482
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: like U Rubes from the Revolutionary War. You don't know

483
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: how to murder. But also I love the idea of

484
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: like the odds of a drunk person stumbling and falling

485
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 1: into a hole smaller than really their own shoulder probably

486
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: or the same size. Don't go toward the hole you're falling, Okay.

487
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: So before they do drop Joshua's body into the well,

488
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: they take his fancy watch, his ring, his silver shoe

489
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: buckles which have his initials engraved on them, and like

490
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: basically keep it for themselves. Then when they're done, they

491
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,719
Speaker 1: go into the house where Bathsheba Spooner is waiting. James

492
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: Buchanan will later testify that she seemed quote utterly confused,

493
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: which could imply a state of shock, or some historians

494
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: have wondered the throes of an undiagnosed mental health crisis.

495
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 1: That's basically kind of like at its apex with this

496
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 1: you know, horrible event. She gives the men a thick

497
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 1: stack of cash as well as a few pieces of clothing.

498
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: Not so confused that she doesn't pay them off from

499
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 1: killing her husband. She's not catatonic, Yeah, exactly, She's like,

500
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 1: I can't deal with this. Nine to ten, that's it

501
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: for you. And she also gives them clothes from Joshua's closet,

502
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: so she's in on the on the cover up so confusing.

503
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: You can take his vest and his boots. At around

504
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: eleven o'clock, Ezra, William and James, all wearing Joshua's clothes,

505
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: riding his horses or the Spooner's horses, skipped town had

506
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: twenty miles out toward of course, the star of this

507
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: show Wista. They arrive at an inn around four am.

508
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: Of course, the innkeepers immediately sent somethings off. Yeah, don't

509
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: go at four am, wait till nine in the morning,

510
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: middle of the night, with big silver bubbles on your

511
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: fucking my clothes that don't fit you correctly? What, yeah,

512
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: like streaks of mud on your cheeks. Yeah, and of

513
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: course acting very very strangely.

514
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say, paying in cash, but they didn't have

515
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 2: any other way to pay back then.

516
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: Back then there's no cards, no gift cards, no tabs, right,

517
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: hanging dirty dirty cash. Yeah, I guess gold. Do they

518
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: pay gold? Yeah? But I think that would count as cash,

519
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: it wouldn't stand out as much. So. Writer Debora Nava

520
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: suggests that all of these actors in this murder are

521
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: dealing with their guilt and their regret, and then it's

522
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: just coming out in their own ways. So Ezra's despondent,

523
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: he refuses to give the innkeepers his name. He immediately

524
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: isolates himself in a bedroom church of just the funniest

525
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: eye roll to me, like she hates Ezra so much. Sorry,

526
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: of course he does.

527
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: Like you fucking did the crime, yep, and now like

528
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter how horrible you feel afterwards.

529
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: Yes, you got all high on like being in the

530
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: murder group, right, and then.

531
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: Like they could have probably done it without you, bro,

532
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: but she wanted to prove your sixteen year old ass

533
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: to your fucking thirty one year old lover.

534
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: Yes, he had a hot milk lover. He was willing

535
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: to to go the distance, but now he's despondent and listener,

536
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: we're just telling you that's how it always goes, whether

537
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: it's murder or just taking people to weddings. Yeah, it's

538
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: on your permanent record, that nerd and you spending time

539
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: with them. He's in the photos. Your family talks about it. Okay.

540
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: William and James, on the other hand, immediately go to

541
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: the inns tavern by alcohol and just start drinking their

542
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: way into the early daylight hours.

543
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 2: That's the way to deal with your regret, except for

544
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 2: an adult.

545
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: Except for they wear the silver shoe buckles and the

546
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: jewelry and the clothing, so they couldn't be drawing more

547
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: attention to themselves as they're trying to have a nice

548
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: escape from reality drink. So the average person in the

549
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: colonies would just never have the wealth to afford silver

550
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: shoe buckles with their own engraved initials on them or whatever,

551
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: especially not a pair of British deserters, which I'm sure

552
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: it's kind of pretty obvious right away. So by the afternoon,

553
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: the men have raised so much suspicion, the authorities are notified. Meanwhile,

554
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: back in Brookfield, there's all ready a swirl of suspicion

555
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: around Bathsheba because she, of course, the very next day

556
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: had morning visitors because she's the lady of the you know,

557
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: of the elite. And when they show up and ask

558
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: where Joshua is, she just burst into tears. So they're

559
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: just kind of like, are you okay? And they start

560
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: looking for him, and they find his body in the well.

561
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: Ladies who were just there for some nice tea and

562
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: tiny sandwiches and suddenly they're like, we just found your

563
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: husband dead. They're like, is mercury and retrograde or what?

564
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: I'm having a bad day. So Joshua's body is pulled

565
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: from the well. Doctor Jonathan King, his friend who was

566
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: walking home with him the night before from the tavern.

567
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: He shows up to examine the corpse, and he notes

568
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: the signs of strangulation and injuries consistent with being beaten.

569
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: He testifies later that Joshua hadn't seemed all that drunk

570
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: when they left the tavern and walked home together. Pretty

571
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: crucial element to this story, and that's of course in

572
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: direct contrast to the idea that Joshua was so drunk

573
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: that he walked in big circles and fell down a well,

574
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 1: almost impossible unless he sat down and then started singing

575
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: and maybe fell backwards. But you just kind of folds

576
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: like that right stop.

577
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: And then start screaming, yeating out of here.

578
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: I don't know. So less than twenty four hours after

579
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: Joshua Spooner's murder, his wife Bathshiba, the young soldier Ezra Rass,

580
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: Private William Brooks, and Sergeant James Buchanan have all been

581
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: arrested as suspects in his murder. The joint trial begins.

582
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: So now you're on trial with two strangers and your

583
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: teenage lover.

584
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: God.

585
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's quick. That begins late April seventeen seventy eight.

586
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: It becomes, of course, a huge sensation. First of all,

587
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: it's the wealth that's the scandal, the violence at play.

588
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: But it truly is one of the first times, like

589
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: in the official newborn two year old America, there has

590
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: been a murder trial. The prosecution is led by a

591
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: man named Robert treat Payne. He's one of the signees

592
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: of the Declaration of Independence. I knew that maybe you've

593
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: heard of it. Ask your friend Nicholas Cage if you

594
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: know now and then the defense is led by a

595
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: man named Levi Lincoln, no relation, but he would later

596
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: serve as President Thomas Jefferson's attorney general. So it's not

597
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: only one of the first capital murder cases tried in

598
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: the United States, but because Levi Lincoln will attempt to

599
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: paint Bathsheba Spooner as mentally unwell at the time of

600
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: the murder, it's also believed to be one of the

601
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: first times the insanity defense is used. Yeah interesting given

602
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: the patriotic backdrop of Massachusetts at the time, the involvement

603
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: of two British soldiers, and the infamy of Bathsheba's loyalist

604
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: father makes this trial inherently political, and of course everybody

605
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: has big opinions about it. Levi Lincoln urges the jurors

606
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: to look past their quote political feelings, but the evidence

607
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: is overwhelming. The trial quickly ends and four guilty verdicts

608
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: are turned in. All of them are sentenced to death

609
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: and their schedule to hang on June fourth, seventeen seventy eight,

610
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: and this is when Bathsheba begs the court to delay

611
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: her execution to spare the life of our unborn child. Right,

612
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: the gallery gasps, that's not true. I put that in.

613
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: I don't know when she told them or how could

614
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: have been in a letter. I bet there was a gas.

615
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: I bet someone gassed, even if it was just someone

616
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: somewhere the secretary of the person that opened that letter.

617
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: So at the time, common law protects fetuses if there

618
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: have been signs of what they used to call the quickening,

619
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: which is basically when the mother can feel the baby.

620
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 1: It happens usually between the fourth and fifth month of pregnancy.

621
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: So if she really did get pregnant sometime in January,

622
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: which is when she told Ezra that she was pregnant,

623
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: this would put her in the correct timeframe. And there

624
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: are theories that Bathsheba is lying about being pregnant just

625
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: to buy herself time, but either way it works. The

626
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: execution date gets pushed to July second, and then in

627
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: the interim she is examined, and she's examined many times

628
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: to determine whether she's pregnant by a panel of midwives

629
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: that the court puts together. Wow, it is as bad

630
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: as you are anticipating. Humiliating, also, needless sleep, painful, it's

631
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: as gross as you can think of it to be,

632
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: and it's described by one contemporary as quote indecent and cruel.

633
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: In the end, the panel concludes that she is not pregnant,

634
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: but Bathsheba appeals and she hires her own midwife to

635
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: conduct her own exam, and then that midwife concludes she

636
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: is pregnant. So the court sides with their own panel. Surprisingly, no,

637
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: it's been like this all along, and they reject Basheba's

638
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: pregnancy claims. So on July second, seventeen eighty eight, seventeen

639
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: year old Ezra Ross, twenty seven year old William Brooks,

640
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: thirty six year old James Buchanan, and thirty two year

641
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: old Bathsheba Ruggles Spooner are brought to the gallows. Bathsheba

642
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: demands that they perform an autopsy on her body after

643
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 1: she is hanged, to prove the existence of her unborn child,

644
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: which is like, I'll be looking down at all of

645
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: you as you martyr me. Okay. So outside of that discussion,

646
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: which I imagined to have in a darkened tunnel but

647
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: probably didn't, five thousand people have gathered to watch this hanging.

648
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: You guys. A small town has gathered, which is funny

649
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: because that what was that at the beginning, was that

650
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: Widow's Bay at the beginning when all the people are

651
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: there and they're cheering for the hanging. Or is that

652
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 1: just another movie? I was watching Wuthering Heights wathering. Molly

653
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: is dialed in. She knows well, because we've been talking

654
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: about Wuthering Heights, and I mistakenly thought that Molly like

655
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: loved it, and so then we watched it to be

656
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: like other people hate it, but Molly seems to love

657
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 1: it less check it out, and then we were like, oh,

658
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: this is good. We like it. Yeah, I really liked it.

659
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,439
Speaker 1: People love their books, they really do. The children love

660
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: the books. Okay, So outside, five thousand people gather to

661
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 1: watch this hanging. The man who signs the execution warrant

662
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: is John Avery Junior, who was Joshua's stepbrother. Testimony from

663
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: the execution describes the one set of quote one of

664
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 1: the most terrified thunderstorms that occurred within the memory of

665
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: anyone living end quote. And they say that that that

666
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: storm quote came up and darkened the heavens, conspiring to

667
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: produce a scene of most dreadful horror. So as they're

668
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: walking to the gallows, black cloud rolls in. Yeah, my god,

669
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: God is pissed. Shortly after the executions, an autopsy is

670
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 1: performed on Bathsheba's body and the physician finds a quote

671
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 1: perfect male fetus of the growth of five months completely correct.

672
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: The panel led, damn. The panel led, the clouds told you,

673
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: but you wouldn't listen. Okay, When word gets out that

674
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: Massachusetts has just executed a pregnant woman, the public is horrified,

675
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: and over time this is a plot twist I did

676
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: not see coming, right, yeah, because you're kind of like, oh,

677
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: she's bad, she's bad, this is the crime. They killed him,

678
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: and here's the execution. It's like, yeah, but wait, oh,

679
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: but hold on one second. So the real controversy most

680
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: associated with this case over like history because in the beginning,

681
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: of course, it was the usual moralizing about the risks

682
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: of adultery and evil women having their way and being

683
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: free spirited and loud and all the things that are

684
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: so terrible about sexually a music as child, but don't yeah,

685
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 1: that is very seen, the risks of adultery and evil

686
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: women using dumb men. But it's actually lived on as

687
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: a cautionary tale about how the biases around politics and

688
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 1: gender seep into the justice system. Bathsheba herself has increasingly

689
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: been treated with more and more empathy as the years pass,

690
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: and sympathy, I should say, but no one doubts she

691
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: wanted her husband dead or that she conspired to kill him,

692
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: But contemporary historians all over the extreme circumstances of her

693
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: life that led up to the crime. Her marriage was

694
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: stifling and it likely involved domestic abuse, the double standard

695
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 1: and how who commit adultery are treated versus the men

696
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: who commit adultery, Not to mention Bashiva's grief around being

697
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 1: basically cut off from her father, him being going from

698
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: being an incredibly respected man to an all out pariah,

699
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: and then that reverberating into her life, people judging her

700
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: and her being socially isolated because of all that. In

701
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 1: the end, the Spooner's children end up being adopted by relatives,

702
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: and it seems they most likely escape all the notoriety

703
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: that is around this case. A few years after his

704
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: daughter's execution, Bathsheba's father, Timothy Ruggles, dies in exile in

705
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: Canada in his early eighties, and the well that they

706
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: put Joshua Spooner's body into is actually still standing in Brookfield, Massachusetts,

707
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: according to the Brookfield Historical Commission, although they say it's

708
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: obscured by thick poison ivy much of the year. AKA

709
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: stay the fuck away from the well. And that is

710
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 1: the story of the first murder in America, the murder

711
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: of Joshua Spooner. Wow, that's crazy, that's heavy. Good job,

712
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: thank you, that's a great one. The four July. Right,

713
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: it's coming up. Do your homework, everybody.

714
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 2: They don't tell you this shit at cool mine is

715
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 2: they had one hundred years later? Only okay, a little later.

716
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: I think right after the Civil War? When did the

717
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 2: Civil War end? Its ion might be lying.

718
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: Eighteen fifty three, six eighteen sixty five. We were both right?

719
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 1: So should we get our high school diplomas? Again? No?

720
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: On the show, I don't want to take that test

721
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: in front of everyone. We're gonna fucking fail. Are you

722
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: kidding me? To be humiliating? It's a fan cult video

723
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 2: of us trying to pass the GED get our ged. No,

724
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 2: I'd rather talk about my modeling photos.

725
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: Come on, Oh my god, the people love the fucking

726
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: modeling photos. We have to talk about that. People are

727
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: going crazy for that entire thing. They really met you

728
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: at that vulnerability that you revealed for them. That's really nice.

729
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: That is nice. So here we go.

730
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 2: We're getting into the country's two hundred and fiftieth anniversary,

731
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 2: as you know right now.

732
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: Definitely now we're going.

733
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: To go back to the centennial, which is eighteen seventy six,

734
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: and we're going to be in Kentucky.

735
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 1: Great. Today's story is.

736
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: An unexplained phenomenon that's straight out of an episode of

737
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: Bananas Weird News. Great, and this one is in the

738
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 2: genre of weird stuff falling from the sky, like when

739
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 2: I covered the Oakville Blobs in episode four twenty nine,

740
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 2: where unidentified goo fell out of the sky in the

741
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 2: eighties and Washington State. But today, in our story, there's

742
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: a bit more progress made in identifying the stuff that

743
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 2: actually fell from the sky as big of a mystery.

744
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 2: This is the story of the Kentucky meat shower.

745
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: Oh I've heard of this. Oh no, meat shower. Meat shower.

746
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: Let's meditate on meat shower. You're just out in a

747
00:41:55,239 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: Kentucky field, roaming through hip high grass and love life

748
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: and then splat boom, right on your face. There's a

749
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:04,959
Speaker 1: Prime rib.

750
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 2: The main sources for the story are articles from Scientific

751
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 2: America and Atlas Obscura, and the rest of the sources

752
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 2: can be found in our show notes and Cooks Illustrated

753
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: and Cloudy with a Chance of Meat Falls. So it's

754
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 2: March third, eighteen seventy six, and we're an Olympian Springs, Kentucky.

755
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 2: It's a small rural community in Bath County, about fifty

756
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: miles east of Lexington, Kentucky. Great a woman named Rebecca

757
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 2: Crouch is in the front yard of her family farm

758
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: making soap as you had to do back.

759
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 1: Then, mixing some lye with some tallow.

760
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: That's right, which is a time and labor intensive chore

761
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 2: done by boiling rendered animal fat on an open fire

762
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 2: and combining it with lie.

763
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,280
Speaker 1: How do you think I used to spend my summers?

764
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: That's right.

765
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 2: You're a farm girl, country girl. Have you read the

766
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: book Yesteryear yet?

767
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: No?

768
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 2: It's great, you should read it, Okay, But there's a

769
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 2: soap making scene in it.

770
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: That's all I know about it. Is it sexy? No,

771
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 1: forget it, very not sexy.

772
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,919
Speaker 2: It's about a trad wife blogger who gets taken back

773
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 2: into the time when she would have to actually work

774
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 2: as a trap, like had to do the things like

775
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 2: make so like and make bread fresh instead, and like

776
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: that's genius, so good yesteryear. It's getting made into a movie.

777
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 2: It's like that's hilarious.

778
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: Okay.

779
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 2: So, as missus Crouch is working, she begins to see

780
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 2: what she'll later describe as a substance that looks a

781
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 2: bit like snowflakes falling out of the sky.

782
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,919
Speaker 1: Snowflakes is fine, it's so fun. It's not big deal.

783
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 2: But it's sunny and warm out. There's no snow. This

784
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 2: isn't snowflakes. It's a cloudless day. And some of the

785
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 2: flakes are very big. She describes them as being quote

786
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 2: as long as my hand and about half an inch wide,

787
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 2: so well as long as my hand, the big ones

788
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 2: and like half an inch wide.

789
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: Okay, take some big pieces of meat. I'm sorry, it's meat.

790
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: I already's meat. Spoiler, it's fucking meat. It's me meat flakes,

791
00:43:58,719 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 1: meat flakes.

792
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: Oh, there's a really great drawing of the whole thing,

793
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 2: if you just don't have the imagination for it.

794
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 1: Great. I love this so much. Let's take a look.

795
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 2: The artist is James Fossdyke, brilliant and it's just James sausag.

796
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 1: You sure can draw Gristle. I don't like the look

797
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: of those meat clumps that are falling on her.

798
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: It looks like a children's book. Yeah, so if you're

799
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 2: watching on Netflix you can see this. If you're not,

800
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 2: you should be.

801
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: It's good.

802
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 2: So, as everything gathers on her yard and she inspects

803
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 2: them further, missus Crouch realizes that they look not unlike

804
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 2: the stuff she's making her so bad of animal flesh,

805
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 2: like meats or bits of fatty connective tissue. She said,

806
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 2: quote it looked gristly, as if it had been torn from.

807
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: The throat of some animal. Good Lord.

808
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: The Crouch family cat and dog are fucking stoked. They

809
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: come a run in and they start going to town.

810
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: Do we know the names of those pets? Oh no,

811
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: Well let's name them now for history's sake. Snowflake, Snowflake

812
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: and gristle, Peaty Grizzle who I had a friend whose

813
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 1: dog was named grizzled. That's a great name for a

814
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: dog that I just made up or was it in

815
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: like a movie? Probably both?

816
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: Okay, So they're losing their minds eating all of this.

817
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: The family hogs and chickens get in on the action too,

818
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 2: and eat.

819
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: A lot of what was falling and cannibalize themselves. Well,

820
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: we don't know exactly what the animal is. Okay, okay,

821
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 1: it's human meat, right, Oh, it's not cannibalism, it's human.

822
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: The chickens are like, finally we get our say, I've been.

823
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 2: Feeding the crows freeze ried chicken hearts. Oh, which feels bad,

824
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 2: but they love it.

825
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: They're going to take over. They're going to take the

826
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: keys to your home. Fine they can, Okay.

827
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: A few days later, just by the bye, the dog

828
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 2: does get a bit sick, but we don't know if

829
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: it's connected, and it doesn't seem like any of the

830
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 2: other animals do either.

831
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 1: So right, because the dog ran over and bit like

832
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: ate some grizzle, and then they ran over there and

833
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: to eat a big cow pie exactly.

834
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 2: So in all, about two hundred pounds of this meat

835
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 2: substance falls for about.

836
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: A minute a grown man's worth. So true. Oh the

837
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: sound of the slop and just one lady trying to

838
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: make some soap. What the fuck Jesus?

839
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 2: It seems like this event is pretty much limited to

840
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 2: the area around missus Crouch's house, and she says that

841
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 2: the meat smells fresh when it had just fallen, but

842
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 2: throughout the day it starts to go off, and by

843
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 2: the next day the little flakes are all dried out.

844
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: So it does what meat does. The event attracts national

845
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 2: media attention and several samples are saved. One is sent

846
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 2: to Louisville for analysis, while another is sent to Washington, DC. Also,

847
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: a correspondent for the New York Herald goes to visit

848
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 2: the Crouch farm. This reporter goes all around town interviewing

849
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 2: people about the phenomenon, asking if missus.

850
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 1: Crouch is full of shit basically fit.

851
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, everyone is like, this is not a

852
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 2: woman who like she's making soap. She doesn't have a

853
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: lot of time for joking around and like pranks. She

854
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 2: handles live, yeah, with no glove.

855
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,439
Speaker 1: She's a fucking farm. Like she's not making shit up? Yeah,

856
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: do not even. And while there is some.

857
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 2: Investigation going on in the article, it does seem like

858
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:08,879
Speaker 2: a lot of it is just a reporter making fun

859
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 2: of the members of this very rural community. He's kind

860
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 2: of a dick about it, and it's probably pissed that

861
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 2: he got sent all the way out there.

862
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: So what are you saying like people are kind of dumb?

863
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 2: Or yeah, okay, or he's making stuff up because some

864
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 2: of the conversations in the article are just don't seem

865
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 2: like conversations people have. But yeah, you know, it was

866
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 2: the eighteen seventies, so what do I know?

867
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: Fill it up? Fill up that article, rusty.

868
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 2: Exactly, we need two thousand words. So he bargains with

869
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 2: a railroad laborer named Jimmy Welsh to eat a dollar's

870
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 2: worth of the meat. No, like, just so we could

871
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 2: get some fucking color for his article.

872
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: So he's saying, if you eat this lump of gristle,

873
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: I will pay you.

874
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 2: A dollar that fell how many days ago?

875
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: And also, sorry, but can we do a doult? What

876
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 1: is a dollar worth? Back?

877
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 2: Then?

878
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: Oh shit, one dollar? Eighteen seventy six? One dollar going

879
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: to go?

880
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 2: You go first, and then Molly will okay would that be?

881
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 2: I'm gonna guess too, I guess too, you can too.

882
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: We're all in this now. I'm going to say thirty

883
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: one dollars. Okay, I'm going to say fifty. Karen is

884
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: just ai overview, but it says thirty one dollars. No, yeah,

885
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: I had to add that looks like I set this

886
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: whole thing up because I demanded it. No, come on,

887
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: I don't believe that you would do something. Have we

888
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: ever had a dead on one?

889
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 2: I think once? And this is yours. Congratulations drop the

890
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 2: streamers hiding up.

891
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,879
Speaker 1: Well, I guess I've tried so hard for so long

892
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: to guess the numbers. I'm really bad at it. I

893
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: couldn't have done it without Elvis his necklace. I'm always like,

894
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: could you please do your job? No, I love it.

895
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: This is your job. This is my joy. This is

896
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 1: your job. Good job getting this job. Thank you making

897
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: this my god, thank you creating the job. I applied

898
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: and then I called back two weeks later and I said, hey,

899
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: I am a bad interview, but I know I can

900
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: do this. Okay.

901
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: So we're in the moment when he's given thirty one

902
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 2: dollars for this poor guy named Jimmy to eat this meat,

903
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:06,439
Speaker 2: which is probably a lot of money.

904
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: He's a railroad laborer. That's a lot of money.

905
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: At this point, it's been about a week after the

906
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: meat first fell from the sky.

907
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: This Jimmy's got a tummy agg.

908
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 2: Well, journalist writes quote the article was ordered and placed

909
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 2: before him the meat. He then hesitated and said he

910
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 2: was not hungry. I then told him I would give

911
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,959
Speaker 2: him three dollars to gulp it down.

912
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: Ninety then ninety three. Right.

913
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 2: He then suddenly remembered that it was the season of

914
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 2: lent and backed out on moral principles.

915
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: So he Jimmy chicken out, Jimmy chicken out or muttoned out.

916
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: We don't really know. You know what he did, He

917
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: dumbed his way into a thing that right, Why were

918
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: you ever sitting at that table? It's disgusting and risky.

919
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,760
Speaker 2: Don't do it drinking alcohol. There's no way alcohol wasn't involved.

920
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 2: Just meant some guide the bar.

921
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

922
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 2: So the meat is sent to several different agencies for

923
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 2: testing in Kentucky and also out of state. There's a

924
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: man named Leopold Brandeis whose qualifications are on clear same.

925
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: Well, he has his own college. Does that count, does

926
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: he Brandish? Yeah, university.

927
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 2: He analyzes a sample that's been preserved in glycerine, and

928
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 2: he publishes his findings in the Scientific American because I

929
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 2: guess anyone could throw anything in there now, saying he

930
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 2: believes the substance is something called gnostic.

931
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: Have you heard of gnostic only in the Bible or

932
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: gnostic gno nostoc No, I've never heard of that. Basically,

933
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: it's a bacteria that swells up into a jelly like

934
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: substance when it rains.

935
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 2: I went to Wikipedia and it said that quote. The

936
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 2: word itself is a combination of the English nostril and

937
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 2: German nason loch, which means nosehole or nostril.

938
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 1: Because basically, because it looks like not that's disgusting.

939
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when it lands on the ground.

940
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: I have a photo of it. Great, here we go. Oh,

941
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: it just looks like seaweed kelp. He looks like kelp.

942
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: It looks like Oh. I have a photo of Missus

943
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: Crouch too. Oh perfect.

944
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 2: We're all guessing she's fifty, but that's in today's money.

945
00:50:57,840 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 2: She's probably twenty seven.

946
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: Great, I know. Also, listener, Missus Crouch took a photo

947
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: smartly with a parasol parasol and her hand on her

948
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 1: fucking hip. She's doing it. Yeah, she's making it happen.

949
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, come at me, she says, this is Crouch.

950
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 1: Now she has to use an umbrella because there's fucking

951
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 1: gnostics falling all over the place. I bet that was

952
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: the journalist's ideas.

953
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 2: That's so true, okay, But the problem with this theory

954
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 2: is that, of course the weather was fine and clear,

955
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 2: so it's not that other testers believe that the meat

956
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 2: is lung tissue, either from a horse or a human infant,

957
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 2: which is fucking insane, and everyone just moves on.

958
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 1: From that statement. Please now, like nobody is like, what, well,

959
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: because there was two hundred pounds of it.

960
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 2: Right, And actually, when missus Crouch first sees it falling,

961
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 2: she had said she'd had quote a vague idea that

962
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 2: my husband and son who were away had been torn

963
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 2: to pieces and their remains were being brought home to

964
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 2: me in this way by the wind end quote, So

965
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 2: she needed some xanax before this even fucking happened.

966
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 1: Well, and after the Civil War, so maybe she saw

967
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: some stuff that she was like, this reminds me of

968
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: human good point tragedy.

969
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they probably still believe in God back then,

970
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 2: so the like that God works, that guy works in

971
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 2: mysterious ways, absolutely, like throwing meat through the weather.

972
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,919
Speaker 1: As a punishment go to church, Missus Crouch. That's very

973
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 1: weird though, because I think that idea of looking at

974
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,439
Speaker 1: something completely foreign and immediately attributing it to a certain

975
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 1: place is meaningful because it's like.

976
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 2: And also that like you're being punished in some way

977
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 2: for something. Yeah, that's like, we understand how that works.

978
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: But multiple testers believe the meat might be human. And

979
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 2: this is so dumb. People think that two or more

980
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 2: men may have killed each other somewhere in a nearby

981
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 2: knife fight, and then the wind picked up all that

982
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 2: remains and tornado dropping.

983
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: It's just like, yeah, stupid, they slash each other to

984
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: ribbons and then without bones. Those car those car dealership.

985
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: You can set one of those car dealership guys that

986
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 1: dances around to any song and I will laugh my

987
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,280
Speaker 1: ass off. So funny, really good. Okay.

988
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 2: So a humor writer back then named William Livingston Elden

989
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:05,359
Speaker 2: writes in The New York Times that the meat might

990
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 2: have come from space and maybe exploded animal matter from

991
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 2: another planet. Let's stop talking about dumb theories.

992
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,919
Speaker 1: Let's not ask any old fourth grader what they think.

993
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: Here's a dumb theory that is probably true. Okay.

994
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 2: The theory that most locals arrive at, and that most

995
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 2: people still believe to this day, is that the meat

996
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 2: had been eaten by vultures, so we're far off partially digested,

997
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 2: and then when vultures get scared, they vomit their contents

998
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 2: of their stomach out. Okay, so the vultures maybe had

999
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 2: eaten something, they were in flight, something startled them, and

1000
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:41,839
Speaker 2: they barfed all the meat onto this one spot. Yeah,

1001
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 2: the only that's to me, that's the only solution that

1002
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 2: isn't paranormal.

1003
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: That makes sense, It makes perfect sense. Man introduced the

1004
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: idea that they got scared by a pterodactyl, a leftover dinosaur.

1005
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,320
Speaker 2: You know what, if they got scared by a ufo,

1006
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 2: then we're back.

1007
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: If they got scared by the Lugno's monster, now I'm

1008
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: interested in that story.

1009
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 2: So we actually you're right, that might be the reason,

1010
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 2: but we don't know why and what scared them, and

1011
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 2: it's probably sci fi.

1012
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: It feels good, though, that there's something normal that you

1013
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: can tell me that possibly could happen because the agitation

1014
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 1: I feel not being able to think of even how possibly.

1015
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 2: This is now, because your brain goes to airplane and

1016
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 2: then your brain is like, that's stupid, it's eighteen seventy six.

1017
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you start going but I saw a

1018
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,399
Speaker 1: show on Netflix where they actually rolled those things over.

1019
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 2: The enduring mystery, though, is that Missus Crouch was standing

1020
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,280
Speaker 2: right in her yard. She didn't see any of these vultures.

1021
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 2: But who knows, or might it could have flown that way?

1022
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:40,760
Speaker 2: She might not have seen them. They were very high.

1023
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 1: Who knows what? I just I would love to keep

1024
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 1: that list going. She had bad vision. She was a liar,

1025
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: so blinded her.

1026
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 2: She had eaten some fucking magic mushrooms from her phone.

1027
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 1: Thing was fake.

1028
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so here's the fun part. In the early she though,

1029
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 2: there's an art professor named Kurt God who takes a

1030
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 2: job at Kentucky's oldest university.

1031
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: Kentucky University of Ancient History. So close Transylvania.

1032
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 2: Your University of Lexington, Kentuck' not in Lexington, Kentucky.

1033
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,240
Speaker 1: No, No, there is not a vampire college.

1034
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 2: There's Vampire College and he's an art professor there. And

1035
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 2: right around that time that he starts this job, he

1036
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,800
Speaker 2: reads a book about strange weather phenomenon and is thrilled.

1037
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: This guy's like an adorable weirdo.

1038
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 2: Great, he's like an art teacher, but seems like the

1039
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 2: kind of like high school science teacher that like makes

1040
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: you interested in science and you become a scientist and

1041
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:37,720
Speaker 2: you're like, the only reason is because mister God told

1042
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:39,439
Speaker 2: me that I could be anything, and so I did,

1043
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 2: and that women are in science too, and so I

1044
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 2: did you know, Like he's just one of those. He

1045
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 2: also he's kind of like Evince had an older brother

1046
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 2: who is a professor. He kind of looks like him.

1047
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 2: Actually have a photo of him. Oh, he's kind of

1048
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 2: got a hot Zaddi vibe. Oh hell yes, right, so

1049
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 2: we love him. He reads a book about this thing

1050
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 2: happening and he's shocked to learn that like nobody from

1051
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 2: there knows about the meat showers, and he's like, this

1052
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 2: is exciting, and it kind of becomes an obsession of

1053
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 2: his just by luck. A few years later, in two

1054
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 2: thousand and four, he is cleaning out a storage university

1055
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 2: at Transylvania University when he happens upon a small, clear,

1056
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 2: very old vial filled with yellowy liquid. In the liquid

1057
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 2: is suspended a white hunk of something and the faded

1058
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 2: label reads Olympia Springs. Kurt has found at this fucking

1059
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 2: college that he started teaching at, the last known sample

1060
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 2: of the meat and he's overjoyed. I have a photo

1061
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 2: of it, and I have one.

1062
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: For you right here, I'll dry Actually the thing behind

1063
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: you kind of looks like it. For thirty one dollars,

1064
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 1: get a little bit of that.

1065
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,720
Speaker 2: Here's a photo of the vial with the like gross

1066
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 2: tendery looking.

1067
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: How much to drink that liquid? I guess for me

1068
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: right now in my life, it would have to be

1069
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,919
Speaker 1: roughly three million dollars. Yes, yeah, but how much would

1070
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: I have to drink? How about a zip.

1071
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 2: Chew that shit in the bottle or drink chew and

1072
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,760
Speaker 2: spit out in the bottom in the swallow or drink

1073
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 2: the liquid?

1074
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 1: Pick one, drink the liquid? No, because in you're yeah,

1075
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: the chewing is it's just going to give you true

1076
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 1: trauma because you're going to be like, yeah, remembering any

1077
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 1: time you chew anything, and then like infants and stuff.

1078
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: But also wouldn't you just die? You also don't have

1079
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 1: to do either of those things. Well now I want

1080
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: to I am not even drinking. Okay.

1081
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 2: He's so excited because he's a nerd, and he so

1082
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 2: he works with a professor in the biology department to

1083
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 2: try to test the sample. But it's too degraded and

1084
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 2: they can't find a conclusive finding. It's two thousand and four,

1085
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 2: so it's like the Dark Ages. But Kurt is an artist,

1086
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 2: and he's more interested in the multisensory experience of the phenomenon.

1087
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:45,919
Speaker 1: Drinking and eating it, rather than continuing to pursue clear

1088
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 1: cut answers.

1089
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 2: So he sends the vial to a lab in Cincinnati

1090
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 2: that analyzes flavor compounds. Oh okay, and then he uses

1091
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 2: that flavor information to make jelly beans that essentially tastes

1092
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 2: like whatever it was, to have people help him figure.

1093
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: Out what the meat was. I feel like that's a

1094
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: very art teacher solution. That's exactly what it is. I

1095
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,919
Speaker 1: feel like if I was involved with that, it would

1096
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 1: be on par with the first time I had a

1097
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: popcorn jelly belly. Have you ever eaten that flavor? The butter? Yeah,

1098
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: buttered popcorn?

1099
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 2: Any like the weird jelly belly flavors that came out

1100
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 2: in the like nineties the kids today, I don't know,

1101
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 2: Like that wasn't a thing for it was just like

1102
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,919
Speaker 2: fruit flavored jelly beans. God, I sound so old, but really, really,

1103
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 2: when jelly Belly came out with these like crazy flavors,

1104
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 2: we were our minds were blown. Yes, and then he

1105
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 2: like mixed the coconut with the popcorn one and that

1106
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 2: book yeah.

1107
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 1: In third grade, saying I just had tried to my tie. Yeah.

1108
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: But also there was some flavors that were so upsetting

1109
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: that like he's basically walking people into come and eat

1110
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: and upsetting thing right with me?

1111
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I want to learn for science for learning sake,

1112
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 2: So it's like adorable, okay, Okay, So he actually passes

1113
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 2: them out. There's a big festival called Kentucky Court, and

1114
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 2: in two thousand and seven he passes them out. Responses

1115
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 2: are varied. Multiple people said the beans tasted like bacon.

1116
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 2: Another person said it was like a strawberry pork chop.

1117
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: Oh, he's trying to do like everybody gets to have

1118
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 1: a vote to figure out what this is. Yeah, like

1119
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: what kind of meat is this? I see? Sorry, I

1120
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: was thinking he was doing it scientifically, but also through

1121
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 1: jelly beans.

1122
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 2: I'm just like, I don't know, She's okay, kind of

1123
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:25,919
Speaker 2: fun with the whole thing, love it, but nobody wanted

1124
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 2: to try a second jelly bean to find out how

1125
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 2: bad they were. Yeah, and I think he still has

1126
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 2: some leftover too. Almost twenty years later. So fast forward

1127
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 2: to now and Kurt is still obsessed with the Kentucky

1128
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 2: Meat Shower, and in fact, just last this February that

1129
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 2: just happened in twenty twenty six. It was the one

1130
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 2: hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the Kentucky Meat Shower, and

1131
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 2: he celebrates with a little festival in town which includes

1132
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 2: there's a meat fall toss, there's hot dogs, of course,

1133
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 2: and a blowney throwing contest.

1134
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 1: Like he's just having fun with.

1135
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 2: His great So this whole festival that he create, it

1136
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 2: culminates in the second ever Kentucky Meat Shower. He has

1137
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 2: a small airplane, oh drop eighteen hundred and seventy six,

1138
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 2: which is the year it happened, individually wrapped pieces of

1139
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 2: beef jerky from the sky.

1140
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 1: I love this man.

1141
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 2: There's a video of it. They look like snowflakes the

1142
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 2: way he wraps them when they come down. It's so

1143
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 2: it's so whimsical.

1144
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 1: Yes, right, and fun yeah yeah.

1145
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 2: And each package has a number on it and then

1146
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 2: the people who pick them up can go to his website,

1147
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:33,439
Speaker 2: which is called Fleshfalls dot com and claim prizes based

1148
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 2: on those numbers, including a gift card to a local

1149
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 2: cafe nice like get me out of la is what

1150
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 2: I think? That's what this is a plea yes me

1151
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,439
Speaker 2: exactly and a necklace by a local artist, as well

1152
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 2: as a signed book by humorist, author and journalist Dave Barry,

1153
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 2: who wrote about the event in his sub stack assumed

1154
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 2: charmed by it. So the specimen is now housed in

1155
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 2: Transylvania use Monroe O Sick Medical and Science Museum.

1156
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: If you work at the Monroe Medical, Music and Medical

1157
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: Science Museum, will you please reach out to us because

1158
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 1: we want to hear Are you real? Is Transylvania reel?

1159
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: Is any of this real?

1160
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 2: Can we have a private tour? And will you send

1161
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 2: us merch? And will you send us meatsticks?

1162
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: Will you send us merge? I wan't worch Transylvania College

1163
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: sweaters please.

1164
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 2: Dave Barry writes about it that the museum quote houses

1165
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 2: many nineteenth century scientific and medical artifacts, including a hairball

1166
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 2: fourteen inches in diameter that was removed from the stomach

1167
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 2: of a cow, uh huh, and a quote tobacco smoke clister,

1168
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 2: which is a device that doctors once use to try

1169
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 2: to revive drowning victims by blowing tobacco smoke.

1170
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: Up their butts. No, and then he writes, I am

1171
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: not making any of this up. That sounds like it's

1172
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: the Muture Museum or the Yeah, I don't know, but

1173
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 1: like a medical history museum is a fascinating for sure,

1174
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: especially a small one.

1175
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, specialized and Dracula and Trendsylvania. I'm going to end

1176
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 2: on a quote from Dave Barry that he has defined

1177
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 2: a sense of humor as quote, a measurement of the

1178
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 2: extent to which we realize that we are trapped in

1179
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 2: the world, almost totally devoid of reason. Laughter is how

1180
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 2: we express the anxiety we feel at this knowledge.

1181
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: Yes, Dave, And that is the story of the Kentucky meat.

1182
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 2: Shower fuck on a True crime murder podcast.

1183
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 1: Hell, yes, you're ten. You're ten. In the fall of fascism,

1184
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 1: when the world around us has turned to living hats.

1185
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 2: Right, when women are getting imprisoned for taking out We're

1186
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 2: not going.

1187
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 1: There, I mean Jesus, but we are there. We don't

1188
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: have to go anywhere. We're fucking here. Yes, We've been

1189
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: talking about it for a while, and in the meantime

1190
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 1: of all this bullshit, we're going to tell each other

1191
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 1: about delightful things, Right, and horrible things. Yeah, and things

1192
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 1: we feel we need to know.

1193
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 2: As of yesterday, we are no longer the only true

1194
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 2: crime podcast, so you're welcome to listen.

1195
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 1: Did that just happen? Yeah, there's a couple more popped up. Yeah.

1196
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: We had a great run. Yeah, being the only ones. Yeah.

1197
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: Now we're going to be doing this weird shit. Yeah,

1198
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 1: so we buckle the fuck up. People are like we are.

1199
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 1: We listened to the end of this episode. You want

1200
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: us to do? Why are you mad at that? How

1201
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 1: much more do we have to listen to you? Oh?

1202
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: We love you guys.

1203
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 2: If you've listened to this point, you're a real one

1204
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 2: and here we fucking appreciate the shit out of you.

1205
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:23,439
Speaker 2: You're the realist one and we're all trying and you're

1206
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:23,959
Speaker 2: doing great.

1207
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 1: Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Good by, Elvis. Do

1208
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 1: you want a cookie? This has been an exactly right production.

1209
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 2: Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer

1210
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 2: is Tessa Hughes.

1211
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 1: Our editor is Aristotle Ascevedo. This episode was mixed by

1212
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 1: Leona Squalocci. Our researchers are Mary McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1213
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 2: Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot.

1214
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 1: Com and follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

1215
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 2: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1216
01:03:58,400 --> 01:03:59,959
Speaker 2: Podcasts or wherever you get your pope.

1217
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.

1218
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 2: And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and

1219
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 2: the remind Me buttons. That's the best way you can

1220
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 2: support our show.

1221
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 1: Goodbye,