1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: Quality dners, but Joseph's gotten more being a Southerner. People 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: will say, well, why do you continue to live in 3 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: Oh There's any number of reasons. Climate, I love the people. 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: I've had opportunities to live elsewhere. But one of the 5 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: things that I think kind of anchors not just myself 6 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: but many of us down here, it's food. And yeah, 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: it's the food that's before you when you're eating, but 8 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: it's also the fact that so much of our life 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: is tied up in food. I guess many people could 10 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,639 Speaker 1: say that, but we make a I don't know, a 11 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: big deal out of just the preparation. We're not big 12 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: on excluding people from our kitchens while we're preparing things. 13 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: Being from Louisiana in particular, you're taught from a young 14 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: age how to cook, and in my opinion, I probably 15 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: make one of the best gumbows around. I take a 16 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: lot of pride in my room. 17 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: But you know, food. 18 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: Is a pathway. It's a pathway to deliver nutrition, it's 19 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: a pathway to fellowship with those that you love, but 20 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: many times it could be a pathway to death. I'm 21 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags Dave. Unfortunately, 22 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: you and I over the past I guess fourteen months, 23 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: have spent more time than we care to mention at hospitals. 24 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: And there was a time, and I remember from my 25 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: childildhood where after church on Sundays we would go to 26 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: eat at the hospital in the cafeteria and there was 27 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: that sounds weird, but in our town the food at 28 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: the hospital cafeteria was fantastic. But yeah, I know, right, 29 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: but weird. It is weird. And I can't say that 30 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: for all hospitals, but I think hospital food is notorious 31 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: for being really bad, particularly if you're a patient, and 32 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: if you're in a room with somebody that you're sitting 33 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: by their bedside for hours and they're not eating their food, 34 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: you begin to pick at their trade because you know 35 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: you don't have time to leave and all those sort 36 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: of things, and it's absolutely horrible. I don't know if 37 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: too many ways you can actually improve it, because they 38 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: tell you they're they're feeding you the food in order 39 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: for you to feel better. I never really felt better 40 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: after I eat the food. 41 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 2: See, I thought you going to go with the after 42 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 2: church going to the hospital for visitation. I didn't know 43 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 2: it was because that was the nice restaurant, you know, 44 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 2: very cool. 45 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: My family wasn't big on visits. I'm sick. 46 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's interesting how as you and I 47 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 2: were looking at this story and it brought about other 48 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: stories that we were talking about, which we will now 49 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 2: include into our list of upcoming shows. But today's story 50 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: of and Jet is that how you pronounced her name? 51 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: And Jet Lyles? Jet? Yeah, I'd never seen that name before, yea. 52 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: And anyway, and Jet Lyles is a woman who born 53 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty five into an upper middle class family 54 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: in Georgia, the Making area, and grows up normal, you know, 55 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 2: or whatever we pass for normal in the South. And 56 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: she's about twenty two years old when she meets and 57 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: Mary's Ben, Ben is a World War Two veteran. They 58 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: get married in nineteen forty seven, and the Lyles family 59 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 2: owns a restaurant in downtown Macon, very popular family restaurant. 60 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 2: And so Ben is there and he's now the head, 61 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: you know, he's in charge of the restaurant. And he's 62 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 2: been known to toss a few back adult beverages and 63 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: to gamble a little bit. Now and Jet and Ben 64 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: have not been married that long, and I know that 65 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 2: back then things were a little different in how we 66 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 2: went about getting married and having children at the ages 67 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 2: you know. Now we would look at somebody in their 68 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 2: early twenties having children as wow, they're young, you know, 69 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: But back then it was not that uncommon. And so 70 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 2: very early on in the relationship they have children. Their 71 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 2: first daughter is born shortly after they get married, and 72 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: after she is I'm guessing potty training hect I don't know, 73 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 2: but she and Jett ends up working in the restaurant 74 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: with Ben with her husband, and so they're working together, 75 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,119 Speaker 2: married a couple of years, and right as and Jet 76 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: has their second child, Marcia, Ben decides to sell the restaurant, 77 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: and Ben sells it for below market value and doesn't 78 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 2: consult with a Jet before he does that. And the 79 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: reason he does is because he's in Hawk to the 80 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 2: to the Sharks. He's made some bad gambling decisions apparently, 81 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 2: And we're not casting as versions on the man's character. 82 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 2: It's just the reality of what happened, apparently. So Ben 83 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: sells the family style restaurant, pays the gambling debt, and 84 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 2: Jet is mad, and so here we go. It is 85 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 2: now December nineteen fifty one. Ben starts to get very 86 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: very sick, very fast. He ends up in the hospital. 87 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: Doctors don't know what's going on, can't figure out why 88 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 2: is this man sick. A month or so after he's 89 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: in the hospital, January twenty fifth, nineteen fifty two, Ben 90 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: Lyles dies. Now, Joe, you're a history guy, and I'm 91 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: feel confident in asking you this. Was it an uncommon 92 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 2: occurrence for somebody to die in the hospital in the 93 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 2: early fifties and have doctors not be able to figure 94 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 2: out what killed them. 95 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: I don't know how common it was. I don't think that. 96 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: And listen, this the information we're about to get off 97 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: into is when you begin to think about the diagnostic 98 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: testing that we have today heir to what they had 99 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: back then. And this is what has always fascinated me 100 00:06:54,000 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: about the Lyles cases. It doesn't require it doesn't require 101 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: you to even draw blood or to take urine to 102 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: run through a toxicology screen. There is symptomology that manifests 103 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: itself externally on these people's bodies. And so, you know, 104 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: you look at an individual as a physician and pretty 105 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: quickly you begin to kind of try to understand, well, 106 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: first off, why are they having this gastro intestinal discomfort, 107 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: can't keep any food down, and they're having severe diarrhea, 108 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: terrible abnominal pain. They've got these very non specific rashes 109 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: all over their body. There's change in their pallor, which 110 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: is a term. It's kind of an old term, but physicians, 111 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: even pathologists will use it, and it's the color of 112 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: the skin. They kind of current turned like a gray color. 113 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: You'll have people that are in talk about historic, historic perspective. 114 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: There's an old term, and I love this term. They'd 115 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: say they were adult. Adult means that you're kind of 116 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: acting like a lunatic. And it's it's all part of 117 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: the symptomology of a bigger picture, particularly when you begin 118 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: to get these in clusters. One person though, I can 119 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: see early on because this man died in the early 120 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: fifties and he would only be the first in a 121 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: succession of. 122 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 2: Deaths and you don't know what's coming. So just in 123 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: an isolated incident, you've got a fairly young man, yeah, 124 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 2: and you know, married of kids, and all of a sudden, 125 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: very quick illness, I mean dies in d goes into 126 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 2: the hospital in December with this. As you mentioned, a 127 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 2: lot of different symptoms and is dead a month later. 128 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: It's not a long time to really diagnose what's going on, 129 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 2: because don't in the hospital when you're dealing with this, 130 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 2: I mean, we're looking at it with hindsight. Would they 131 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: be looking at each symptom alone and saying, well, this 132 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 2: can bring on this type of gastro intestinal distress, and 133 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 2: this can bring on a rash, this can bring on 134 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 2: a fever. I mean, is that how they're looking at 135 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 2: this then, or are they looking at it in totality? 136 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they're trying to you know, they're what they're 137 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: doing is they're they're checking off a list and they 138 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: have a list that you know, in the kind of 139 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: cluster cluster these things together, and they'll say, well, he's 140 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: having these. I think one of the most striking things 141 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: is probably going to be the skin responses when you 142 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: begin to see this bloody rash that comes up, you know, 143 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: all over people. Uh. Sometimes you'll even see changes, you know, 144 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: in the palms of the hands, that sort of thing, 145 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: and skin the skin will begin to present uh with 146 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: they some some people that have these presentations on their skin, DAVE. 147 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: In a clinical standpoint, clinical perspective, they'll have to be 148 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: strapped to the bed so they don't scratch themselves. 149 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. 150 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a horrific kind of kind of uh presentation. 151 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 2: Is that something that still goes on now? 152 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And you know, I'll be very specific here. Uh, 153 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: I don't feel like I'm bearing the lead, but we're 154 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: talking about arsenic and rasnink is Is has been known 155 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: to man, you know, for I don't know, three four 156 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: thousand years, and it's a naturally occurring standalone element. It's 157 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: on the elemental chart. It's something that has been mined. 158 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, I think it may 159 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: have been the Romans that used it to blend it 160 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: with copper in order to strengthen copper and because they 161 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: could mine it in one of their territories, you know, 162 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: if they came across it. But even back then, Dave, 163 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: they they recognized that the people that were working in 164 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: the minds were presenting with with symptomology and they would die. 165 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: They would die. And even the Romans, you know, we 166 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: think of them in a very brutal sense, they shut 167 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: the minds. Now, they were like, we've got to find 168 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: something else in order to blend with copper to make 169 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: it stronger, and so they walked away from it. It 170 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 1: has it's been known to be a toxic substance forever, 171 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: and it's not just in like the Near East or Europe. 172 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: I'm always fascinated by this because from you know, you're 173 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: taking a long view of this, the stuffs had, the 174 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: same thing is happening in the Far East as well. 175 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: The Chinese knew about it and they have, uh you know, 176 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: the Chinese are very impressive with their written history. It 177 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: goes back much further I think than even Western history 178 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: in many circumstances as far as how they wrote things down, 179 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: and they've got you know, they've got examples of arsenic 180 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: poisoning going back, you know, a thousand years, thousands of years, 181 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: and so it's been around for a long time, and 182 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: it's it's something that has been used in industry over 183 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: the years, but primarily primarily arsenic has been used in 184 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: the most recent sense as a pesticide. David, I think 185 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: that probably if someone wanted to kill somebody in the 186 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: most stealthy way possible so that they could try to 187 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: get away with it. Poison for many I think is 188 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: at the top of the list. You know, poisoners are 189 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: interesting compared to all other killers out there. There was 190 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: a there was something I read not too long ago 191 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: talking about the personality of someone that prefers to poison 192 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: and one of the lines and it was they come 193 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: to you with a smile, but they leave death in 194 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: their wake, and you never see them coming. And it's 195 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: the stealth nature of it. The trick, I think, is 196 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: how do you get access to an individual to apply 197 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: something that's going to be toxic in their system? And 198 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: with a jad Lyles even though Ben had sold this restaurant, 199 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: and by the way, Ben's mama worked there as well 200 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: in the wake of Ben's death, and Jet kept working 201 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: at the restaurant, and by all accounts, she was a 202 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: real floor show if you will. She's kind of bombastic. 203 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've got a big personality and likes to be. 204 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: Big personality, likes to flirt. She's got platinum blonde hair. 205 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: Think of kind of a you are set in Marilyn Monroe. 206 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: You know how the women would kind of I think 207 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: they called it bobbing their hair, and it was it 208 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: was short, but it was like when you saw it 209 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: was striking. You know, she was a striking and they 210 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: talked about her where she would warmly greet everybody that 211 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: came into the restaurant, throw their arms, throw her arms 212 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,479 Speaker 1: around them and hug them and sit and just engage, 213 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: engage with people. You know what's really fascinating about the 214 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: Lyles Restaurant, Dave, is that if you ever go to 215 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: Macon's kind of an interesting little town. I'm a fan 216 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: of it because Votis Reading and the Almond Brothers, but 217 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: making in and of itself, aside from its musical heritage, 218 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: it's an interesting little town that's tried to rebound several times. 219 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: But going down the main street, and literally the main 220 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: street is the name of one of my favorite Doctor 221 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: Seuss books when I was a little is Mulberry Street. 222 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: I think the name of the book it was called 223 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: I can't believe it, or it happened on Mulberry Street 224 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: or something like that. But on Mulberry Street sat the 225 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: Lyles Restaurant, and guests take a guess where it was 226 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: positioned across the street from no clue the county courthouse. 227 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: So back then, during the fifties, during the fifties, there 228 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: was no such thing as drive through food. McDonald's was 229 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: at some point in time was just starting up in 230 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: some place that was far far away from making Georgia. 231 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: So if you were going to go out to eat, 232 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: and back then, going out to eat was a big deal. 233 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: Across the street from the courthouse, when they'd go on break, 234 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: the judges, the lawyers, probably even defendants, they come in 235 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: to Anget's restaurant and they would they would eat. And 236 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: we've got a couple of these places around where we live, Dave. 237 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 2: They're generally carthouse cafe. 238 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, very well that they're called what's the term, I'm 239 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: probably gonna get a meat in three, I think that's 240 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 1: what it's. Where you get you get a meat of 241 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: some kind, whether it's cube steak, you know, country fried steak, 242 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: mashed potatoes, lima beans and black eyed peas or collars 243 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: or something like that. So you get one big hunk 244 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: of fried protein, and then you get vegetables along with it. 245 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: And these are still prevalent around these parts. I can't 246 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: speak to the rest of it. 247 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 2: And I still put those vegetables on the side of 248 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: my plate next to the napkins, and nobody can see 249 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 2: I didn't eat them. I hate those things. But you 250 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 2: know you mentioned that that and Jack continued working, you know, 251 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 2: at the restaurant after Ben's passing, and she's there with 252 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 2: her mother in law. And by the way, remember now 253 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 2: her mother in law Julia Lyles, Ben's mom. Well that's 254 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 2: the grandmother t and Jet's little girls, you know. So 255 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 2: there's a real connection here now and Jet. After the 256 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: death of Ben, and Jet moves in with her parents 257 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 2: for a couple of years while she continues working and 258 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 2: saving her money. Now, remember Ben sold the restaurant and 259 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 2: sold it fronder market value. And Jet was very clever 260 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 2: in that she saved money and learned all she could 261 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 2: about the restaurant business. And after a couple of years 262 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 2: she buys it back. And Jet buys back. This is 263 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 2: not a common thing to have happen with women in 264 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 2: the South in the fifties. This is not your normal thing. 265 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 2: And she's very cagy in that. As soon as she does. 266 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 2: You know, the first thing, she hires back Ben's mom, 267 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 2: her mother in law, Julia, because she wanted to attract 268 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 2: some of the old Lyle's restaurant crowd that remembered Julia. 269 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 2: So she brings her back and there they are now 270 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 2: and Jet and Julia working together in the restaurant and 271 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 2: it's everything's going fine. People really like her. You mentioned 272 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 2: that she's got that big personality, always hugging people when 273 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 2: they come in and saying hello. And after a jet 274 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 2: is in control of the restaurant, she meets a guy 275 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 2: named Buddy Gabbert. Now Buddy was a pilot and he 276 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 2: had been going there for a while, to the restaurant, 277 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 2: and he and a jet strike up a friendship and 278 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 2: end up, you know, I guess casually dating. I'm sure 279 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 2: she was very busy with work and the girls. But 280 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 2: she announces, and jet does they're going on vacation. She 281 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 2: and Buddy are going to take a vacation and when 282 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 2: she comes back. 283 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: Wait, hang on back during that time too, she's not 284 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: married to him. This would have been very scandalous. 285 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,479 Speaker 2: Way. I was going to ask you how that How 286 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 2: you thought that played out, because I didn't want to 287 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 2: blow past it. But I thought, am I the one 288 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 2: thinking it's a big deal? 289 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: No? How did they position the Yeah they're not married, 290 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: they're going to Yeah, I can tell you the board 291 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: of deacons gonna be talking about this. 292 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 2: Well, they go on this vacation and I can hear 293 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 2: the preamble is well, we've got separate hotel rooms and 294 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: separate every you know, but we're going together. But anyway, 295 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 2: you look at it. When they came back from vacation, 296 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 2: they announced, Hey, we got married. So now Buddy and 297 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: and Jet are married. So here we are. We're now 298 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty five. Now, remember her husband Ben sold 299 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 2: the restaurant to settle a gambling debt in nineteen fifty one. 300 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 2: He then dies after a month long illness between December 301 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 2: and January and nineteen fifty two. So we're a couple 302 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 2: of years down the road. She's bought the restaurant back, 303 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 2: and her mom, her mother in law, works there with her. 304 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 2: She gets married to Buddy Gabbert. Well that's in July 305 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 2: of nineteen fifty five when they go on vacation and 306 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 2: return married. A couple of months later October nineteen fifty five, 307 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 2: Buddy has minor surgery. Oh I need to add this. 308 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 2: Buddy is a pilot and he's gone a lot. He 309 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 2: travels a lot, and so there were some rumors flying 310 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 2: around town about and Jet and her flirty personality. Okay, 311 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 2: I'll leave it at that, you guys fill in the blanks. 312 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 2: Buddy comes back and he has his minor surgery in October, 313 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 2: and when he goes home to convalesce after the surgery, 314 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 2: he develops a fever and then a rash that covers 315 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 2: his entire body. Joe, this is October nineteen fifty five, 316 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 2: and doctors they can't figure out what's going on. I'm 317 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 2: going to ask you a very specific question. Sure, in 318 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty five, what would they have been testing for 319 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 2: with those types of symptoms fever and rash? 320 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, fever and rash. Back then, they would have thought. 321 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: The first thing they would have thought about is probably 322 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: exposure to something, something that is going to present with 323 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, for lack of better terms, some kind 324 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: of dermatitis. Now, the trick is to try to understand 325 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: is this something like most people have heard of a 326 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: there's a term called contact dermatitis, Like if you touch 327 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: something okay with you know, your hand, or you brush 328 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: up against something, you'll get kind of a focal area 329 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: of your body that will be impacted by whatever agent 330 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: it is you've come in contact with, and sometimes it 331 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: can spread. That's the first thing you know, because I 332 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: still this is a parlism. My grandmother one of her 333 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: favorite things to say back then, is if you if 334 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: you had a rash or you know, you would you 335 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: know there was something going on with you. She'd say, boy, 336 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: what have you gotten in to? You know so? And 337 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 1: so that's that's one of the things. You know, you're 338 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: kind of thinking about here as from a diagnostic standpoint, 339 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: But you have to account for the fever, all right. 340 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: Just because you have a contact dermatitis doesn't mean that 341 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: you're going to be presenting in a fibrill state. It's 342 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: just it's not going to not going to Those two 343 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: things don't match up. So then you turn to, well, 344 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: is this some kind of internal internal thing that's going 345 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: on and it's manifesting externally now along with this, if 346 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, he again, like his predecessor, the first 347 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: husband had horrible gastro intestinal discomfort and it's they would 348 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: have diagnosed it as gastro entritis back then. And again 349 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: another it's very kind of nonspecific. A lot of the 350 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: symptom homology with this is non specific. But when you're 351 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: maintaining in in that state and you're declining and they're 352 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: hanging IVS on you, and they've got everybody and their 353 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: brother coming in to take a look at you. It's 354 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: not surprising that they would miss common signs that might 355 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: be associated with arson arsen. 356 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: Well, they're not thinking that, right, I mean, you're not 357 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 2: a nobody. 358 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: I mean, nobody's thinking that when it's it's always I 359 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: try to cut medical staff a lot of slack because 360 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: there are people that present at hospitals all the time 361 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: and they will suddenly die. Clinicians are not Clinicians are 362 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: not looking at a patient and thinking with a forensic mind. 363 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: They're they're thinking with a clinician's mind, with a healer's mind, 364 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: what do I have to do to get this person 365 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: from point A to point B? And so they're going 366 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: down a checklist. Trust me, arsenic is not popping up 367 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,719 Speaker 1: on the radar. That's just not something that you think. 368 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: It's the old adage about you know, you might have 369 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 1: that one person that when they hear hoof beats they 370 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: think camel as opposed to horses. But they're an outlier, 371 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: to say the very least from a diagnostic standpoint. One 372 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: of the interesting things about and Jet is that she 373 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: made a fuss over everybody in her family that gets sick. 374 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,959 Speaker 1: And when you kind of dig into the mind of 375 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: someone that might be poisoning someone. You want to get 376 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: that kind of and particularly if you're going for the 377 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: sympathy vote, I'll look at her. They just have gotten married, 378 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: they're just starting their life. She's got these she's a widow, 379 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: she's got these two little girls that lost their daddy. 380 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: She's taking care of her former husband's mother in law. 381 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: What this lady, this lady is she's going to be 382 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: declared a saint, right And so every day when any 383 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: of these family members wind up presenting with any kind 384 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: of symptomology, she's there. She's there at their bedside. Dave. Now, 385 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: when you put that in perspective, that's chilling, because at 386 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: the end of the day, having a jet Lyles adjacent 387 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 1: to your bedside was kind of the equivalent of having 388 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: the specter of death with their scythe hanging over their shoes, 389 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: older sitting. You know, when you read the Bible, there's 390 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: one there's one individual in a Bible that always comes 391 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: to mind when you're going through hard times, and that's Job. 392 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: You don't want to sit there and say I'm just 393 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: like Job. Nobody can be just like Job. You would 394 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: not wish that, well, I don't know. Some folks might 395 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: wish that on their worst enemy. I wouldn't when you 396 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: think about and it's, you know, part of our vernacular 397 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: we say the trials of I'm going through the trials 398 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: of job. A lot of people don't understand that. But 399 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: when you're surrounded by family members that are dying left 400 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: and right and you're still trying to struggle, I think 401 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: spiritual standpoint, any folks will look up to the heavens 402 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: and shake their fists and say, you know, why are 403 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: you allowing this to happen to me? And wasn't the 404 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: case with a jet Lyaeleso, She continued to Sally forth Dave, 405 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: and you know, put on the put on the face 406 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: of being a strong independent woman running the restaurant, taking 407 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: care of her family. And now you've got second second husband. 408 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: That's you know, one foot in the grave and one 409 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: foot on a banana peel. 410 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's interesting that as we look at this, 411 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 2: you know, it's very condenced period of time, you know, 412 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 2: from getting married in nineteen forty seven to having children, 413 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 2: the restaurant, selling, the restaurant, husband dies. I mean there's 414 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 2: a lot going on in this woman's life in a 415 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: very very short window of time. And I think about 416 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 2: those two girls being raised in that environment of what 417 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 2: it must have been like. But after the death, y'all 418 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 2: know that. I mean, obviously Buddy died after a very 419 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 2: brief illness. Now he had that surgery in October of 420 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty five, and he home convalescing by the end 421 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 2: of the month. So he's sick in November, and on 422 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 2: December second Buddy dies. So he's got a five or 423 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 2: six week recovery period and death. 424 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: So let me just interject to Buddy's death was miserable. 425 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: It was miserable. And this is you remember Dave how 426 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: was saying second ago, being tied to the bed. Yeah 427 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: that in his particular instance, they had to restrain his arms. 428 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 2: Can you imagine because of the rash? 429 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And you know it's bad enough, you know, 430 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: if you're if you've got stomach discomfort, which he would 431 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: have had tremendous stomach discomfort coming out, as they say, 432 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: coming out of both ends, anything that you ingest, you 433 00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: would and plush your your itching all over your What 434 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: a horrible way. And this this misery lasted for this 435 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: particular period of time. But my understanding that a Jet 436 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: was the one constant in this universe. She was always 437 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: coming to take care of him. And well, yes, kind 438 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: of a portent of things to come. Buddy didn't eat 439 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: hospital food. He ate food from the restaurant. 440 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 2: Right, we know, ninety days after they get married, think 441 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 2: about that Joe you're talking about. They go on a 442 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 2: vacation and come back married in July, and ninety days later, Buddy, 443 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 2: you know, has this minor surgery that turns into death 444 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 2: by December twod that's a that is a whirl wind 445 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 2: of highs and lows. So after Buddy's death and Jet 446 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 2: changes her name back to Lyles, that was kind of 447 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 2: interesting to me. It really did make me one her. Well, 448 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: anyway you look at it, she did it. And she 449 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 2: also collected some insurance money and in town the size 450 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 2: of making when you're running a restaurant in downtown where 451 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 2: you meet everybody and talk to everybody. Well, and Jet 452 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 2: bought herself a brand new Cadillac and bought a new 453 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 2: house and moved her mother in law, Julia, into the 454 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 2: home with her. I'll take care of the Yes, look 455 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 2: at this woman, she's taking care of everybody. And now 456 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 2: Julia the Grandma gets to be there to help take 457 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 2: care of the children. This is what we just need 458 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 2: to go ahead and make a statue of Ajet right 459 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 2: now and put it downtown in you know. 460 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: On mulber Street. 461 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, right there. And well, the thing is is that 462 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 2: after Julia, the mother in law, moves in with and Jet, 463 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 2: they didn't get along. And I'm thinking now, I mean, 464 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 2: here we are. It's a lot much different time than 465 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 2: it was in the nineteen fifties. Not getting along with 466 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 2: your mother in law seems like like there could be 467 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 2: a fix, you know, move her out, but she doesn't. 468 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 2: Instead of trying to rectify the situation, and Jet tries 469 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 2: to get Julia to write out a new will. You 470 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 2: need a will, Julia, you need a will. Now, I'm 471 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 2: gonna be honest with you, Joe, somebody who's got a 472 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 2: couple of dead people in their recent past is telling 473 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 2: you to get a will. Yeah, I'm thinking there's got 474 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 2: to be an apartment somewhere I can rent, you know. 475 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: Or maybe you have a pause and say wow, and 476 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: Jet's really proactive. Yeah, it all depends on how you 477 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:37,959 Speaker 1: look at it. 478 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 2: Wow. Well there was also you know, there are a 479 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 2: couple of things being talked about about and Jet at 480 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 2: the hospital. At the restaurant, the workers said that, you know, 481 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 2: they were a little weirded out by her some black magic, 482 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 2: voodoo type stuff. And in a town the size of 483 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 2: Making Georgia, if you're talking to black candles when nobody 484 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 2: you think nobody's looking, that's going to get a I 485 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 2: mean it will. 486 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: And let me tell you one more thing about that. 487 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: The employees, and this really plays a big part in this. 488 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: The employees at this restaurant that work behind the counter. 489 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: We're all African American, Okay, so generationally, generationally better than 490 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: let's say, the white folks out there. They understood kind 491 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: of this ominous thing that's going on with her in 492 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: black black candles because they've seen it. They've seen it, 493 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: they talk about it. It's not something that the white 494 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: community necessarily talks about. In the African American community, though, 495 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: this is something that's real. And I experienced this in 496 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: New Orleans because down there you actually do have a 497 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: voodoo culture that is real. Wow, it doesn't matter if 498 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: you believe in it or not. They believe in it. 499 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: You also have Santa Rio as well, and a lot 500 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: of this stuff comes about the Caribbean. It goes back 501 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: generations even you know, during the slave era and this 502 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: sort of thing when things are brought over and practiced. 503 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: You know, all you have to do is just go 504 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: to the go to the east of Making and wind 505 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: up in Savannah and midnight in the garden of Good 506 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: and Evil. And you know, uh, voodoo played played a 507 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: large part in that case. And someday we're going to 508 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: cover that case. 509 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 2: Actually witch trial. You know, the sailing witch trials had Tituba. 510 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: The exactly and she was from the islands, I think 511 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: that's the way they referred to her as. And she 512 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: was a servant. 513 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 2: Wow. 514 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: So you know, if you're if you're an African American 515 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: and it's in the fifties in the Deep South, because 516 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: you are in the heap South and you are dependent 517 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: upon the white folks to provide your living, you're going 518 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: to keep your mouth shut because you never know how 519 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: it's going to wind up for you. You know you're going 520 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: to be out on the bricks and you're not going 521 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 1: to have a job any more. But can you imagine 522 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: you're sitting there in this woman, this bombastic woman with 523 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 1: the blonde hair, who's driving a caddy is in the 524 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: back room and she's got a black candle and she 525 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: lights it and they'll see her whispering to the candle. 526 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: And that's enough to terrify anybody. And let me tell 527 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 1: you one more thing. They have proof in their eyes 528 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: because she's driving a big white Cadillac through town. You 529 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,280 Speaker 1: might not know this day about making, but making Georgia. 530 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 1: The main industry in making Georgia back then were textile 531 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: mills and cotton, and so people that lived in making. 532 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,720 Speaker 1: You had very few people that were really wealthy. Most people, 533 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: if they had a car, would come to town and 534 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: they would be driving an old truck or an old 535 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: beat up car. You've got this bombastic woman with stark 536 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:11,240 Speaker 1: white hair that's riding around in a caddie. You're gonna 537 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 1: she's gonna draw attention the people that knew about kind 538 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: of the voodoo element here that are watching her. Can 539 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: you imagine it's really easy to put two and two together. 540 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: You think that because of her whispering to the candle, 541 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 1: because of her involvement in this, she's now experiencing wealth. 542 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: She's able to This is a woman in the fifties 543 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: that is recovering from the loss of a husband, two husbands, 544 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, these great riches fall into 545 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: her lap. Well, you know, to me, this is like 546 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: being at the crossroads in Mississippi and somebody signed to deal. 547 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:57,479 Speaker 2: With the devil. Wow. I actually did look up Little 548 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 2: Richard Tenneman came from Making Joy and worked at a 549 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 2: restaurant in nightclub there. It was called tiktoks I think, 550 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 2: or tick tacked. But anyway, I was. I was in 551 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 2: my back of my head when you were talking about 552 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 2: how and Jet actually had employed African Americans. You know, 553 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 2: I thought, well, I wonder if little Richard was there. 554 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't, but I was looking it up 555 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 2: just in case. But Joe, after the death of her 556 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,840 Speaker 2: second husband and moving in her mother in law, Julia 557 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 2: into her home, they don't get along, and all of 558 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 2: a sudden, Julia becomes sick. It's now nineteen fifty seven. 559 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 2: She went and Jet did the entire year of nineteen 560 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 2: fifty six without anyone close to her dying that we're 561 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 2: aware of. And I'm sure she, you know, was celebrating, Oh, 562 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 2: bad times were over. Well maybe that's what people thought, 563 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,240 Speaker 2: because in nineteen fifty seven, Julia becomes ill, she's hospitalized 564 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 2: and dies September twenty ninth, and nobody knows why, don't 565 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 2: know what happened. She got sick and died. Holy moly, 566 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 2: So Joe, as they're doing what they had done previously, 567 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 2: doctors don't mean they're got to think at some point 568 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 2: somebody's going to look at this and go, hey man, 569 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,440 Speaker 2: we got three adults dead in what a five six 570 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 2: year period of time. Who's what's the common denominator? I mean, 571 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 2: is nobody looking at this? Well, they did when Marcia 572 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 2: got sick. Little Marchia is nine years old. It's March 573 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty eight and a Jett's daughter gets sick in 574 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 2: the restaurant. It is so sad. She's hospitalized with hallucinations 575 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 2: and her kidneys shutting down. What does that tell a 576 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 2: doctor at that point in time? 577 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: Joe, Well, it didn't tell them arsenic for whatever reason. 578 00:38:54,440 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 1: I can't understand. I think from when and again, you 579 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: don't know how many of these physicians had the history 580 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: to rely upon too. We're kind of looking at this 581 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: in our rearview mirror. So you've got this succession of husbands, 582 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,359 Speaker 1: You've got a mother in law. Was it the same 583 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,399 Speaker 1: clinical staff that had treated the other people to put 584 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,919 Speaker 1: two and two together. The one central figure though, Dave 585 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: in this that I still cannot wrap my brain around 586 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: is corner. How could the corner make a determination because 587 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: they did a corner what they used to refer to 588 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: as a corner's in quest? 589 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 2: What actually is I've heard the term used many times. 590 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: It's kind of a formalized term to mean that the 591 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: corner is doing an investigation. I think that it's kind 592 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: of a media thing that they used to do. Oh, 593 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 1: the corners involved, Well, yeah, anybody that dies particularly acutely, 594 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 1: there's going to be an inquest by the corner. But 595 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 1: you know, corners also many people don't understand this. They 596 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: can panel a corner's jury. They actually paneled a corner's 597 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: jury with Bonnie and Clyde. 598 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, right, didn't know that. 599 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: For those who didn't know that, I just saw the 600 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 1: expressional day's space and you have a jury of people 601 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: that are impaneled because corner does have judicial authority, and 602 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: so going back, that's another story for another time. They're 603 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,760 Speaker 1: very powerful. People really don't understand that. Next to the sheriff. 604 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: Matter of fact, in many places, if the sheriff is 605 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,280 Speaker 1: removed from office, the corner replaces the sheriff. 606 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 2: You know what quick funny story Alabama several years ago 607 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 2: in Walker County, Alabama, home city of Jasper, You know 608 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 2: how we get those calls that come in scam calls 609 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 2: and where somebody there was a scam for a while 610 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 2: where people somebody would call you and say, you know, 611 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 2: you've got a warrant for your arrest and you have 612 00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 2: to pay five hundred dollars or whatever and do it 613 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 2: right now, or we're gonna We're knocking on your door. 614 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 2: We're coming to get you. If you don't do it 615 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 2: right now, we're gonna arrest you. And the flin Flammers 616 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 2: actually made the mistake of calling the county sheriff, the 617 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 2: Walker County sheriff, and he gets on the phone and 618 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 2: he says, well, I'll tell you what, son, go ahead 619 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,799 Speaker 2: and pick up the county corner because he's the only 620 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 2: one that can arrest me. 621 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: Yep, that's right, yeah, we and I don't again. Going 622 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: far field. In New Orleans, the sheriff, who has to 623 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: be served with papers cannot serve themselves. Corner investigator would 624 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: go over and serve the sheriff papers. Wow in civil 625 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: civil things and all that sort of thing. So wow, yeah. 626 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,320 Speaker 1: But the one combon denominator is that the bib County corner, 627 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,959 Speaker 1: because this is in making, is located in Bibb County, Georgia. 628 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: One famous person we know in common that is from 629 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 1: Bibb County is NaN's Grace, by the way, And so 630 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 1: they he would rule these that it was just some 631 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 1: kind of non specific natural disease that had gotten them, 632 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: and I think like gastro into ritis was at the 633 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: top of the list, you know, throughout all of this, 634 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: And I think back to the husband, the second husband 635 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:23,839 Speaker 1: being tied to the bed, and I'm thinking, dude, how 636 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 1: can you look at this and not not want to 637 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,359 Speaker 1: delve further if for no other reason, not necessarily you're 638 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: thinking homicide. You're thinking, my god, is this guy a 639 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,240 Speaker 1: public health risk? Because I'm thinking if he's exposed to something, 640 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,839 Speaker 1: and I'm a servant of the people, I don't want 641 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,840 Speaker 1: everybody else to be, you know, exposed to this as well. 642 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,360 Speaker 1: And then you have the mother in law that dies 643 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 1: again pretty quickly. And one of the things with arsenic 644 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,839 Speaker 1: Dave is that it screws up the rhythm of your 645 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 1: heart as well. And so you've got someone like Julia 646 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,879 Speaker 1: who's an advanced age by this point in tom, it's 647 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,319 Speaker 1: not necessarily surprising that she died. If she's if she 648 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 1: is exposed to arsenic, then in in her in her world, 649 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 1: her death might happen relatively quicker because she's already compromised physically, 650 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,719 Speaker 1: just simply based on age. Okay, but when you get 651 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 1: to Marcia and this precious little girl, how do you 652 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 1: how do you actually explain that? 653 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 2: Man? Well, it was actually an anonymous letter. They didn't 654 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 2: have it explained. They didn't have an answer. All the 655 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,480 Speaker 2: medical people, i'm sure were talking about it, but it 656 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 2: actually came down to an anonymous letter from an employee 657 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,879 Speaker 2: of the restaurant that actually had his or her fill 658 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 2: and actually sent a letter to the coroner. And in 659 00:43:54,040 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 2: that letter, the employee noted that a Jett kept poison 660 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 2: at the restaurant. Not uncommon to have ant poison in 661 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 2: a restaurant. However, there's arsenic in this ant poison terry 662 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 2: and terror ant poison, yep. And so that was what 663 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:16,719 Speaker 2: the employee wrote to the corner, and the corner then went, hey, 664 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,759 Speaker 2: wait a minute, now, would that be, like, I'm not 665 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 2: knocking anyone. I don't know what it would take. I 666 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:26,800 Speaker 2: mean to come to that conclusion independently, But at that 667 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 2: point it was the anonymous letter that actually went ding 668 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 2: ding ding light is on. 669 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you begin to string these together. And here's 670 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 1: another little insight, you know, and I kind of mentioned 671 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,839 Speaker 1: this earlier. The person that wrote this letter was an 672 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: African American lady that worked in the restaurant. She didn't 673 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,719 Speaker 1: sign her name to it. And here's why because if 674 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:55,359 Speaker 1: she had. If she had, then they would have dismissed her. 675 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: Because she's an African American lady in the nineteen fifties 676 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:09,279 Speaker 1: making these accusations toward a prominent white lady. And so 677 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,759 Speaker 1: this is a brilliant move on the part. I can 678 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,400 Speaker 1: only imagine how terrified she was because she's born witness 679 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:22,919 Speaker 1: to the black candle thing. She's actually knows that the 680 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:29,279 Speaker 1: she understands the kind of the timeline here. She's born 681 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 1: witness to all of these people dying. You begin to 682 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:38,879 Speaker 1: think about those kids too. You know. It's not one 683 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,800 Speaker 1: of my favorite restaurants that I've was actually here in Jacksonville. 684 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: It's no longer open. It was owned by Greek family 685 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,040 Speaker 1: and it had been around for years and years. It 686 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,960 Speaker 1: was on the square in Jacksonville. It was a pizza joint, 687 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 1: but they also served meeting three. The thing that was 688 00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:57,920 Speaker 1: so charming to me about the restaurant is that they 689 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 1: brought all of their children to work with them. They 690 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 1: even had play pens in there with toys. It didn't 691 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,000 Speaker 1: bother me at all. As a matter of fact, it 692 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: was kind of endearing. The grandmother was always in the 693 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,560 Speaker 1: restaurant and she was speaking in Greek, and they were 694 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,319 Speaker 1: just really sweet people. I missed that restaurant. They're always there. 695 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,920 Speaker 1: They're part of the fabric of this environment. So these 696 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,640 Speaker 1: kitchen workers would have seen those two little girls in 697 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 1: this environment. You know, they get out of school, they 698 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:30,600 Speaker 1: come to the restaurant. Julia is there in the restaurant 699 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 1: every single day. So they have a different perspective than 700 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,719 Speaker 1: somebody that's just kind of coming and going. Even if 701 00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 1: the corner which he probably did, had come in to 702 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:45,160 Speaker 1: eat meals there. And what this led to was they 703 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:50,279 Speaker 1: had to get orders of exhamation and go back and 704 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:52,800 Speaker 1: disenter these bodies. 705 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 2: And that's not an easy thing to do, is it. 706 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: No it's not. Yeah, and judges are notorious for not 707 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,160 Speaker 1: wanting to crack up graves. It is if you've never 708 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:08,000 Speaker 1: been involved in it, folks, it is you're moving heaven 709 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,040 Speaker 1: and hell in order to convince this judge that is 710 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:16,839 Speaker 1: in the community's best interest and the legal system's best 711 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,800 Speaker 1: interest to crack open a grave and take out a body. 712 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,160 Speaker 1: First off, most people that are, you know, not around 713 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:27,440 Speaker 1: the dead like I am, they find it abhorrent, okay, 714 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 1: and it's something that's that's not done. You know. You 715 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,200 Speaker 1: think about again, going back in time, you think about 716 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,520 Speaker 1: Tammy Dabell. They had to have her exhumed, and we've 717 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:42,640 Speaker 1: had a number of cases like these. But David, the 718 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,960 Speaker 1: thing about it is with arsenic poisoning, the one thing 719 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:51,879 Speaker 1: that you look for in arsenic poisoning is you're going 720 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:56,640 Speaker 1: to do sampling from multiple locations in the body. Even 721 00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,960 Speaker 1: after a body has been embalmed, you can still pick 722 00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,959 Speaker 1: up on it. Because it's a heavy metal. It will 723 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,279 Speaker 1: actually go into You'll find it in the hair, You'll 724 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 1: find it in the nails. 725 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 2: And one of the answer in the fingernail test, yeah, yeah. 726 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,240 Speaker 1: And so you look at the and the nails themselves 727 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:23,719 Speaker 1: developed these weird kind of horizontal lines on them that 728 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,279 Speaker 1: you know, and if your clinician, you don't think about that. 729 00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:29,640 Speaker 1: I've been in the hospital a couple of times in 730 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,800 Speaker 1: my life. I don't ever remember a physician or a 731 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,000 Speaker 1: nurse saying, let me see your fingernails. It's just like, 732 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,279 Speaker 1: well here, you know, here, doc, look on my finger als. 733 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,239 Speaker 1: It's not something they commonly do, but Dave, as a 734 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,360 Speaker 1: result of the exhamation, they were able to go to 735 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,759 Speaker 1: a jet's home and not only did they have this 736 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,920 Speaker 1: and it's called tarot ant poisoning companies still in existence today. 737 00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:03,080 Speaker 1: Back then they were putting arsenic in the ant poisoning 738 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:07,399 Speaker 1: and for fifty years now arsenic is foreboden, But back 739 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,279 Speaker 1: then it was everywhere day, it was everywhere. It was 740 00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 1: part of pest control. You had rats in the barn, 741 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 1: you put out arsenic, you had ants, You just sprinkle 742 00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,000 Speaker 1: the tarot around, they come and eat it, put a 743 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,839 Speaker 1: little sugar with it, and you got dead ants. At 744 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,640 Speaker 1: this point in time. And so they went to her home. 745 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,280 Speaker 1: Not only did they find more of the ant poison 746 00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,839 Speaker 1: at home, guess what else they found, Well, they found 747 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,960 Speaker 1: all kinds of objects connected with voodoo there as well 748 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:39,759 Speaker 1: inside of her home. The way this case kind of 749 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:46,919 Speaker 1: spun out was it was a real show in the courtroom, Dave. 750 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:51,280 Speaker 1: You had multiple people in this case because of Lyle's 751 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:55,959 Speaker 1: restaurant that had to recuse themselves because they knew an jail, 752 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,800 Speaker 1: they knew her, and they couldn't you know, they couldn't 753 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,640 Speaker 1: involve themselves in the case. Can you imagine. I mean 754 00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,640 Speaker 1: the sheriff, The sheriff ate regularly there, the da ate 755 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:10,680 Speaker 1: regularly there. The judges, one of whom was distantly related 756 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,520 Speaker 1: to a Jet, had to accuse themself. He was a 757 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,160 Speaker 1: state district judge said I can't be a part of 758 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,120 Speaker 1: this because she's kin to me. 759 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,799 Speaker 2: Dave, Right, that's just unbelievable. But when everything is said 760 00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:29,080 Speaker 2: and done, Joe, I'm still shocked that Marcia, at nine 761 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,640 Speaker 2: years old, was dead. And a month after that when 762 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,080 Speaker 2: they it took a month. And this is kind of 763 00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,920 Speaker 2: quick in my book, because after Marsh's passing the letter, 764 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:44,160 Speaker 2: anonymous letter arrives, they get the exhamation and when and 765 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,480 Speaker 2: Jet is actually in the hospital being treated for vericas veins, 766 00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,759 Speaker 2: which I don't know what they did back then to 767 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,640 Speaker 2: treat vericas veins. But she was in the hospital for 768 00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,359 Speaker 2: that and that's where they arrested her. They arrested and 769 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,840 Speaker 2: Jet at the hospital and charged her with murder. 770 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,319 Speaker 1: And I think she made one of her initial court 771 00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,279 Speaker 1: appearances in a wheelchair. You know, we talking about trying 772 00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:11,000 Speaker 1: to trying to get sympathy vote here. But here's what's fascinating, Dave. 773 00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:17,000 Speaker 1: And Jet was actually tried by jury of her peers 774 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:24,200 Speaker 1: and she was found guilty. She had the death penalty 775 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,280 Speaker 1: imposed upon her. And I think back to those workers 776 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 1: in that restaurant. If one of them had committed a 777 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,920 Speaker 1: crime like this, and I'm thinking one of these African 778 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:42,760 Speaker 1: American women that worked there, the local constabulary, the judicial system, 779 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,279 Speaker 1: and the governor himself would not have given it a 780 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,319 Speaker 1: second thought of putting them on death row. But the 781 00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:56,000 Speaker 1: governor famously said that that he's not going to be 782 00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,279 Speaker 1: a part of a white woman being executed because I 783 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,280 Speaker 1: got to tell you, regardless of how you feel about 784 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,920 Speaker 1: the death penalty, she deserved it. I Mean, when you 785 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,160 Speaker 1: think about the pain and suffering that people went through, 786 00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,880 Speaker 1: and the exposure as well, when can you imagine the 787 00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,240 Speaker 1: chill that would go up and down your spine you're thinking, 788 00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,440 Speaker 1: I ate there on a regular basis. This woman is 789 00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,160 Speaker 1: poisoning the food she's taken at the hospital to continue 790 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:27,040 Speaker 1: the poisoning. How many other people were exposed well in 791 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:31,560 Speaker 1: her world. She winds up going to prison and at 792 00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:35,319 Speaker 1: some point in time, Dave and this is fascinating, they 793 00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:40,320 Speaker 1: declare her to be insane. And Georgia had this infamous 794 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,640 Speaker 1: hospital for the criminally insane that was located in Millersville, 795 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:51,080 Speaker 1: and Militville, Georgia is like the main interest, the main industry. 796 00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,759 Speaker 1: There used to be prisons. There were multiple prisons in 797 00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,920 Speaker 1: the town, and they had this place that was notorious 798 00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,000 Speaker 1: to treat the criminally insane. As a matter of fact, 799 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,319 Speaker 1: when we were kids, you know, a slur that you 800 00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 1: could direct at somebody as a child would be, man, 801 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,879 Speaker 1: you need to be in Millageville, and you just kind 802 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,480 Speaker 1: of understood that in Louisiana was you need to be 803 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,600 Speaker 1: in Jackson. And so you know, those things creep up. 804 00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:24,759 Speaker 1: But and yet wound up dying in this place in Militiville, 805 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:31,400 Speaker 1: Georgia in nineteen seventy seven. Interestingly enough, the last prison 806 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:39,640 Speaker 1: job she had she worked in the kitchen. I'm Joseph 807 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is body backed