1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. In Wall Street's War 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: on Workers, author Lesleopold shows how healthy corporations United States 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: have used mass layoffs and stock buybacks to enrich shareholders 4 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: at the expense of employees. He explains why mass layoffs 5 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: occur and how our current laws and regulations allow companies 6 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: to turn these layoffs into short term financial gains. But 7 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: how have these US labor practices had an impact on 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: our social and political life. Democrats, who inarguably lost long 9 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: standing support of millions of urban and rural workers and 10 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: wall Street's War on Workers explains why here to discuss 11 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: his new book, which I think is a fascinating thesis. 12 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: I'm really pleased to welcome my guests, Lesleopold. He is 13 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: a co founder and executive director of the Labor Institute, 14 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: a nonprofit organization. Less welcome and thank you for joining 15 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: me on News World. 16 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, mister speaker. 17 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: Can we start with the initial sense of history of 18 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party, which certainly from nineteen thirty two on 19 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: was the party of working class Americans, and gradually that 20 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: seemed to change. But can you talk first about what 21 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: was the nature of that Democratic Party that at one 22 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: time had enormous loyalty from working class voters. 23 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: Well, that Democratic Party was squarely behind the working class 24 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: aims and ambitions. The idea of full employment, the idea 25 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: of rising wages was essential to that Democratic Party. Should unemployment, 26 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 2: that Democratic Party would find ways to put people to work. 27 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: It was unabashedly in support of working people. It was 28 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 2: critical from time to time of corporations, and Wall Street 29 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 2: wasn't hardly even mentioned in those days. But it was 30 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: also a party of regulation. That the idea was to 31 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 2: tame the capitalist system so that working people had a 32 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: better chance, and it was very clear to working people 33 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: I think across the country that that's what the Democratic 34 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 2: Party stood for. 35 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: Well, in that period, being a working person genuinely produced 36 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: a pretty decent life and ability to buy a house, 37 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: and ability to look forward to a pension and a retirement. 38 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: I think my parents' generation, my father was a Democrat, 39 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: very loyal to Roosevelt and Truman and felt that the 40 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: contract they had was working. And then it began to 41 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: really decay. I mean, while Jimmy Carter in nineteen seventy 42 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: six is down to fifty two two percent among the 43 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: white working class and as you point out, it just 44 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: keeps going down, and by Biden in twenty twenty, it's 45 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: down to thirty six percent of the white working class. 46 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: What happened in that process. 47 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: Well, I really struggled to try to understand that, and 48 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 2: I think the primary determinant was the inability of the 49 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 2: Democratic Party to deal with mass layoffs. Prior to nineteen 50 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: eighty or so, layoffs were something that corporate executives were 51 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: embarrassed about. It was a mark of shame. They didn't 52 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: want to do it. They understood that during recessionary periods 53 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: mass layoffs had to happen, but they believed as soon 54 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 2: as the things turned around, they would hire back as 55 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: many of the workers as possible. That changed, and what 56 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: happened was I think the Democratic Party didn't realize that 57 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: many of the policies that it supported, especially the deregulation 58 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: of Wall Street, was making mass layoffs something that would 59 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: happen in good times as well as bad times, and 60 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: they took the blame for it. And I think we 61 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: have very strong statistical evidence, especially in the blue Wall 62 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: states of Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, that the counties that 63 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: suffered the highest degree of mass layoffs between nineteen ninety 64 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 2: six and twenty twelve. This is long before Trump lost 65 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 2: the most Democratic votes, and the counties that suffered the 66 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: fewest mass layoffs saw an increase in the Democratic votes. 67 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: And those counties tended to be higher income, better educated 68 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 2: counties usually around the wealthier suburbs, and the rural counties, 69 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: which tended to be lower educated, lower income, and mostly white, 70 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 2: they got clabbord with mass layoffs. They withdrew from the 71 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: Democratic Party. On average, we looked at there were one 72 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,559 Speaker 2: hundred and twelve counties that we would call white working 73 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 2: class counties in those Blue Wall states. We found, on average, 74 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: thirty three percent of the working people in those counties 75 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: lost their jobs due to a mass layoffs between nineteen 76 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: ninety six and twenty twelve. And by a mass layoff, 77 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 2: we're talking about fifty more workers laid off at the 78 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: same time. That's a calamity on two fronts. Imagine you're 79 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: in rural Pennsylvania. Your facility goes down and there's a 80 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 2: thousand of you looking for a job. At the same time, 81 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 2: your friends and neighbors and co workers are all running 82 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 2: around trying to get that last job at Walmart or 83 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 2: the dollar store, etc. It's humiliating and extremely difficult as 84 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 2: a result. One thing we do know now is that 85 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 2: mass layoffs are an incredibly traumatic event. We have studies 86 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 2: now that show this. Losing your jobs the seventh most 87 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 2: stressful event, rank more stressful than divorce, a sudden or 88 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 2: serious impairment of hearing or vision, or a death of 89 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 2: a close friend. So if you put well, we have 90 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 2: to make overall since nineteen ninety six, thirty million people 91 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: have gone through mass layoffs. You're talking about a lot 92 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: of traumatic events, and that's going to create frustration, anger, 93 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 2: and disappointment. And the Democrats have taken the brunt of it, 94 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 2: and I think they drank the kool aid that if 95 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: you just deregulated Wall Street, all good things would happen, 96 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: all boats would rise, etc. I think you saw this 97 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 2: even better than I did. That it was a problematic process. 98 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: You quote Senator Chuck Schumer back in twenty sixteen saying, 99 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: quote for every blue collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, 100 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs 101 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia. And you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois, Wisconsin. 102 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: Didn't that actually turn out to be a gamble that 103 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: didn't work well. 104 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: Fostian bargain. To be sure, Chuck Schumer, I'm sure regrets 105 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 2: having made that statement, and he's running around toygol. He 106 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 2: had to turn that around, as you could well imagine. 107 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 2: But that statement turns out to be true on one level, 108 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 2: a disaster on another level. In fact, in the states 109 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 2: that he mentions, the data shows that they did gains 110 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: considerably in those suburbs. But it's a gigantic mistake to 111 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: write off any group of people got off. To tell 112 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: you this, mister speaker, it's in your DNA. You don't 113 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 2: write off voters ever. You just don't do that. What 114 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 2: you try to do is understand what are their concerns, 115 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: what are they really worried about? And job instability, I 116 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: would argue, if not the number one issue in the 117 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: country is darn close to it, and you have to 118 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: speak to that job instability. And Democrats who have not 119 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: written off those voters like Sharon Brown and Ohio and 120 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 2: has targeted Wall Street, They've run way ahead of the 121 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 2: national Democrats in those states that have turned red. 122 00:07:54,480 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: The classic liberal analysis rejects your economic argument. Hillary Clinton said, 123 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: you know to just be grossly generalistic. You could put 124 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket 125 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: of deplorables. The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, islamophobic, you name it. 126 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: And unfortunately there are people like that. So their analysis 127 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: was somewhere between race and ideology that somehow had alienated 128 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: these voters, not economics. 129 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: Right. I'm sure she'd like to take back that statement. 130 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: In all due respect, she's wrong. We had to investigate 131 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 2: that for this book. I had to convince myself whether 132 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: that argument was true or not, because if it was true, 133 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 2: then my economic analysis wouldn't hold. But what we did 134 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: was we were fortunate. As you know, there are these 135 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: very large voter surveys that exist, fifty one hundred thousand 136 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 2: voters that they track over long periods of time, and 137 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: they ask them a lot of interesting questions, and we 138 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: isolated twenty read hot button social issue questions exactly the 139 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 2: kind of thing that Hillary Clinton was talking about, the 140 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 2: deplorable questions. For example, here's one, should gay and lesbian 141 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 2: couples be permitted to adopt children? Right? If you're homophobic, 142 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: you're going to say no. Right. The number of people 143 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 2: who agreed that they could adopt children. In nineteen ninety 144 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: six or so was thirty five percent. Now it's well 145 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: over seventy five percent. Of those twenty three questions, we 146 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: could not find any that had gone down, and half 147 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 2: of them there'd been a more liberal direction as opposed 148 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: to illiberal. So it turns out that the white working 149 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 2: class is not becoming more deplorable. They're becoming more and 150 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: more liberal. Even on the question of immigration. This is 151 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 2: the one that really shocked me because I didn't expect it. 152 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 2: We went and checked the data several times, we thought 153 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 2: it was wrong. Back couple of decades ago, the question 154 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 2: was should illegal aliens, illegal immigrants be permitted to become 155 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 2: citizens if they've been here three years, paid their taxes, 156 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 2: have no felonies. In other words, they're part of our 157 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 2: working economy. You would think people would be outraged against that. Well, 158 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 2: those who agreed with that statement jumped again from thirty 159 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 2: something percent to over sixty percent. Two thirds of the 160 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 2: white working class today believes that we should basically have 161 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 2: a path to legalization for the millions of immigrants that 162 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 2: are here illegally, unlawfully undocumented. It's a shame that Schumer 163 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 2: and Pillary. Clinton didn't look at that data because I 164 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: think they would have found that the working class is 165 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 2: not all that different from the managerial class when it 166 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 2: comes to social issues. What they're really concerned about is 167 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 2: job instability. And in this country, if you don't have 168 00:10:55,280 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 2: a skill that is easily marketable where you can start 169 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: a podcast, write a book, or if you don't have 170 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: one of those skills and you're subject to mass layoffs, 171 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: you're in trouble. You feel economically insecure. You know, this 172 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 2: is the other part of the story. Those workers were 173 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 2: told by both parties that, look, you may be having 174 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: it rough because of globalization, technology, blah blah blah blah, 175 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: but your kids are going to do better because they're 176 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 2: going to be a bit better educated, they're going to 177 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 2: get jobs in the high tech sector. Well, last year, 178 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 2: two hundred and sixty two thousand workers in the booming 179 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 2: high tech sector went through mass layoffs, and another seventy 180 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: five thousand so far this year. There is no place 181 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 2: that provides stable employment anymore. And that is a problem 182 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 2: for American democracy, and it's going to be a problem 183 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 2: for both parties right now. The Republicans, I think are 184 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: benefiting from this but they're going to have to deliver. 185 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 2: It's going to be very difficult to deliver because to 186 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 2: stop mass layoffs you have to stop certain practices that 187 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 2: are going on right now, primarily driven by Wall Street, 188 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 2: and that's going to be difficult. As you well know. 189 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: You don't really make an argument, which I think is 190 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: a really important argument to look at that automation, whether 191 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: it's artificial intelligence or robotic or whatever, is not really 192 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: the driving force here, that in fact, it's corporate behavior 193 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: that is the driving force. Can you walk through that 194 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: just for a second, what your analysis is on why 195 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: it's not a function of modernization and automation that is 196 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 1: driving this. 197 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: That particular chapter came about because the publishers said to me, Hey, 198 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 2: I'm reading your book. The first thing I'm thinking about 199 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 2: is AI. I said, wow, okay, let's look at that. 200 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 2: It's always been the case that we've all been fascinated 201 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 2: by new technology. One of the biggest moves towards automation 202 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: took place actually doing World War Two, and of course 203 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 2: what followed World War Two is one of the largest 204 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 2: booms ever in American history that your parents experienced all 205 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 2: the way from World War Two, you know, through really 206 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 2: up until the end of the nineteen sixties early nineteen seventies. 207 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: So automation has always been something that we've been worried about. 208 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 2: But you know, there's been a lot of studies done 209 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 2: about how long it takes for automation to actually have 210 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 2: a major impact. Of course, look, we don't have elevator 211 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 2: operators anymore. We don't have operators anymore for the most part, 212 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 2: but the change is usually gradual. Challenger and Company does 213 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 2: a report every month about playoffs, and I checked the 214 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 2: report for January and they actually have it out a 215 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 2: little section on has layoffs from AI. This is quite remarkable. 216 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 2: So there were eighty seventh thousand layoffs in January. The 217 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: number of layoffs attributed to AI was three hundred and 218 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 2: eighty seven. It's just not a fast process. And meanwhile, 219 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 2: though layoffs that are driven by leverage, buyouts, private equity 220 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: deals and stock buybacks, they happen really rapidly. To finance 221 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 2: a stock buyback, and just make sure all your listeners 222 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 2: know what a stock buyback is. The company uses its 223 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: own earnings, goes into the stock market, buys back its 224 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: own shares, which boosts the price of the stock before 225 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, this was considered stock manipulation. You're not 226 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: supposed to go manipulate your own shares because they thought 227 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: that contributed to the Great Crash. In nineteen twenty nine, 228 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 2: there was a limit to the percent of profits that 229 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 2: you could use for stock buybacks. It was two percent, 230 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 2: and then they lifted the ban in nineteen eighty two. 231 00:14:55,680 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: Today it's nearly seventy percent of all corporate offits go 232 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 2: to stock buybacks. Seventy percent, So that's a lot of money. 233 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 2: And to get that cash, one of the first things 234 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 2: you do is layoff workers, and if you can find 235 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 2: a way to do it, you do it. The second 236 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 2: big thing is when a company buys another company or 237 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 2: a private equity deal takes place. Usually most of the 238 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 2: deal is borrowed money, and that borrowed money is then 239 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 2: placed on the purchase company, like they did on bed 240 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 2: Bath and the Yond I think went through one of 241 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 2: these not that long ago, but anyway, and Twitter, you 242 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 2: put the debt on the company, and then the debt 243 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 2: service becomes the cost of the company to pay for 244 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 2: that debt service. Layoffs begin. When Elon Musk bought Twitter, 245 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: the debt service payments went from fifty million dollars a 246 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 2: year to two billion. He laid off half the workers. 247 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 2: He had to because I had to service that debt. 248 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 2: Both these things could be moderated with I think thoughtful policy. 249 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: You spent a fair amount of time talking about Mingo 250 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: County in West Virginia. Well, wasn't that a function of 251 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: regulation rather than stock buy back? Isn't the collapse of 252 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: the coal industry largely driven by the government. 253 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: The collapse of the coal industry is a complicated story. 254 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 2: I used the Mingo County example. That's a very good 255 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 2: point you're making there. I used that story because the 256 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 2: vote for Bill Clinton was sixty nine point seven percent. 257 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 2: The vote for Joe Biden was thirteen point nine percent. 258 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 2: So there was an enormous collapse in a county that 259 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: was so democratic. Where the Coal Wars took place in 260 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: the early twentieth century, it was basically a war zone 261 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 2: and then an occupied territory. It was only when Roosevelt 262 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 2: came basically to support the United mine Workers that the 263 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 2: siege was lifted, and they were ever thankful that they 264 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: voted Democrat forever. What led to the collapse of coal 265 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 2: mining jobs across Appalachia I don't know that we can 266 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 2: pin down our regulation. You certainly can't pen it on 267 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 2: stock buybacks. Either. Has a lot to do with the 268 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 2: shift from eastern coal to western coal. Actually it has 269 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 2: to do with lack of regulation table the mountaintop removal 270 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 2: that allowed huge pieces of equipment to come in. And 271 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 2: there's a case where you have certain kind of I 272 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 2: don't know if you call that automation, but a different 273 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 2: kind of production process lost a lot of jobs. Where 274 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,239 Speaker 2: Wall Street does come in, however, has to do with 275 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 2: the feeding on the carcasses. The Wall Street vulture capitalists 276 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 2: come in. They try to buy up the collapsing companies 277 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 2: and then eliminate things like retirement benefits for co workers, 278 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 2: which is a terrible thing to do just to have 279 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 2: rich wall Street. I'm using that example to show that 280 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 2: it can't be racism, sexism, etc. It just couldn't be 281 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 2: that caused the collapse of the Democratic Party of Mingo County. 282 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 2: It can't be that those people are deplorables. The other 283 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 2: part of the story is what the Democrats historically would 284 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 2: do in that kind of situation is come in with 285 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 2: job programs. It would have been possible to go all 286 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 2: over or Apple Achia sit down with people and say 287 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 2: what do you need. Well, we need our schools we built, 288 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 2: we need better roads, we need the rivers cleaned up, 289 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 2: we need internet, we need a lot of infrastructure. Mingo 290 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 2: County lost the most cold jobs of any county. This 291 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 2: county has twenty five thousand people, lost three thousand coal 292 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 2: jobs in nineteen ninety six and twenty twenty. That's the 293 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 2: most of any county in the entire country. So the 294 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 2: Democrats historically would come in and create jobs. Even Jimmy 295 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 2: Carter did that. And you know, we could have an 296 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 2: argument about whether that's the right way to go, but 297 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 2: the wrong way to go was to do nothing. Because 298 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 2: what happened was free enterprise did come in in the 299 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 2: form of drug stores that became pill mills prescribing opioids, 300 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 2: and two drug stores ended up going into a great 301 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 2: free market competition. They figured out a system to put 302 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 2: out one prescription per minute. One of those drug stores 303 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 2: ranked twenty second in the country in the county of 304 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 2: twenty five thousand people in opioid prescriptions. And you're counting 305 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 2: all the big drug stores in New York, Washington, Boston, 306 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 2: Los Angeles. I think about if you lived in that county. 307 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 2: You see cars lined up to buy drugs. You have 308 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 2: very few new jobs being created. The drug stores are 309 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 2: not hiring a lot of people. You've lost three thousand 310 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 2: of the best paying jobs in all of West Virginia. 311 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 2: I mean, despair would be the feeling I would have. 312 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: And then that despair turns to anger, and the Democrats 313 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: got the anger, and you saw West Virginia flip dramatically. 314 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: What would you do? What are your solutions? 315 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: I would take the stock buybacks back to two percent. 316 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 2: I think we had a very prosperous country that way. 317 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 2: That's number one. And also there's all sorts of tax advantagers. 318 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 2: We're giving Wall Street the wealthiest of the rich. They 319 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 2: don't need them. The second thing I would do is 320 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 2: I would limit the amount of borrowed money you can 321 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: do for a leverage buyout. But that's small potatoes in 322 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 2: a way. The big one I would do as you know, 323 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 2: and God, you've seen this better than almost anybody anybody 324 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: I've ever met. The government puts out a lot of contracts. 325 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 2: I think it's roughly seven hundred billion a year in 326 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 2: government contracts that go to corporations. How about one little 327 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 2: provision that says, if you're going to take taxpayer money, 328 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 2: you can't lay off taxpayers during the life of this contract. 329 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 2: That provision right there would bring mass layoffs way down. 330 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 2: And I can give you an apocryphal example. You remember 331 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 2: Carrier air Conditioner where Trump intervened and kept the plant 332 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 2: from moving to Mexico. And it was twenty sixteen seventeen. 333 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 2: They asked the CEO of United Technology, which owns Carrier 334 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 2: air Conditioning, why did you go along with this deal. 335 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 2: Here's what he said. He said, I was born at night, 336 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 2: but not last night. We get ten percent of our 337 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 2: money from the federal government. He did not want to 338 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 2: be in the crosshairs of the administration and the administration 339 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 2: because they do a tremendous amount of defense work and 340 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 2: they didn't want that work to go to somebody else. Well, 341 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 2: I think this could be very fair. You don't have 342 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 2: to take that government contract. We're not saying that all 343 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 2: corporations can't do mass layoffs. That would be very difficult 344 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 2: to do. The unintended consequences might be enormous. But you 345 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 2: could tell somebody, look, you're getting seven hundred and fifty 346 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 2: million dollars this year. No layoffs, no mass layoffs. You 347 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: can do voluntary mass layoffs. In other words, if you 348 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 2: want to do a layoff, you can provide enough money 349 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 2: so the person voluntarily leaves. You can do that, but 350 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 2: you can't just get rid of them. That then raises 351 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 2: the question do corporations have the flexibility to live that way? 352 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 2: The example I have in the book about Semens, I 353 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,719 Speaker 2: think shows that it does. When I went to this book, 354 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 2: I did not think that corporation could prevent themselves from 355 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 2: doing mass layoffs. I really didn't. I thought that it 356 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 2: would lead me more towards the social wage. How do 357 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 2: you help people that are laid off? That's sort of 358 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 2: the traditional kind of do good way of dealing with 359 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 2: the problem. Then I ran into Semens Semens Energy, which 360 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 2: is controlled by Semens in General. Semens in General has 361 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 2: four hundred thousand employees German based company around the world. 362 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 2: Semens Energy has ninety thousand of them, and they decided 363 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 2: a few years ago to get out of the I 364 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 2: think they were making compressors for fracking, and they decided 365 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 2: they didn't want to do that anymore. So they're going 366 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 2: to lay off seven thousand people. Seventeen hundred in the 367 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 2: United States, three thousand in Germany. Well in the United States. 368 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 2: Almost all of them turn out to be union plants. 369 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 2: Two of them were steel workers, one of them in olean, 370 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 2: New York, right above that southern tier of New York, 371 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,719 Speaker 2: right above Pennsylvania, very rural, used to be very industrial 372 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 2: with Corning and all these other companies there. Now it's 373 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 2: difficult five hundred steel workers with very good paying jobs 374 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 2: out the doors. And in Germany something else happened there. 375 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 2: They have co determination, something that we sort of pushed 376 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 2: for very strongly. After World War Two. Americans wanted workers 377 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 2: to be on the boards of directors of German corporations 378 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 2: because they felt that the workers would be less prone 379 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 2: to be go fascist again, where the corporation leaders were 380 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 2: very prone to do that. So they thought this was 381 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 2: a nice stabilizing thing. So half the seats of what 382 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 2: they call a supervisory board board of directors are workers. 383 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 2: The tiebreaker is the CEO chosen by the supervisors. That 384 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 2: workers have a lot of power. They did a lot 385 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 2: of investigating of the problem, and they're coming up with 386 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 2: all kinds of different solutions. Finally, this is what seemans 387 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:56,479 Speaker 2: agrees to. No compulsory layoffs, only voluntary layoffs. And the 388 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 2: second thing they agreed to, and this was the stunner 389 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 2: to me. This shows about corporate flexibility. Six facilities in 390 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 2: small towns were going to be shut down. Six they 391 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 2: agreed to put a different product than all the six 392 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 2: plants to keep them open, so it wouldn't cause the 393 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 2: kind of community economic harm that's Semens. And this is Germany, 394 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 2: an export driven economy, where you'd think they would be 395 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 2: loath to do something like this. They did it. They're prospering. 396 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 2: And in the United States seventeen hundred workers lost their 397 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 2: jobs by forced layoffs. Semens in Germany, no force layoffs. 398 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 2: If they can do it the here, they can do 399 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 2: it here, and we should have held their feet to 400 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 2: the fire and we didn't. This is the interesting thing. 401 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 2: Semens in fact, has a very large government contract they 402 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 2: provide I think something like three quarters of a million dollars. 403 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 2: I think that might be a two year contract. They 404 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 2: would have agreed to no compulsory layoffs, Are you kidding? 405 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 2: They would have immediately agreed to that. If that's what 406 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 2: they had to do to sign that contract. They would 407 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: have agreed. They didn't Germany, they could do it there 408 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 2: would have be an easy argument to make. These big 409 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 2: companies are really flexible. They have very complex systems that 410 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 2: they can rearrange. For example, in Pennsylvania their layoffs going 411 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 2: on at the UPS. UPS has the ability to move 412 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: its delivery around fifteen ways to Sunday. They could avoid 413 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 2: compulsory layoffs. They want to do layoffs, fine, bid up 414 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 2: the price until worker voluntarily goes. And workers are in 415 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 2: all different pages of life. You know somebody in your 416 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 2: retirement might take that package and go readily. It could 417 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 2: be done. I think we're at the stage in America 418 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 2: we have to do something about mass layoffs before it 419 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 2: really tears us apart. 420 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: Do you make a very compelling case? And your book 421 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: has both a tremendous amount of information and I think 422 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: poses some very important, challenging questions for the next administration. 423 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: I think it's a very important book in that sense. 424 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 1: And Lesa, I want to thank you for joining me. 425 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,959 Speaker 1: Your new book, Wall Street's Warren Workers is available now 426 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: on Amazon in bookstores everywhere. I think it's going to 427 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: be a book people going to talk about a lot, 428 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: and it raises a whole new set of questions that 429 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: affect tens of millions of Americans. I want to encourage 430 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: our listeners who'd like to learn more to visit your 431 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: website at the Laborinstitute dot org. And I really appreciate 432 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: you joining me. 433 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me and for your 434 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 2: kind words. 435 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,919 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Lesleopold. You can get a 436 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: link to buy his new book Wall Street's War and 437 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: Workers on our show page at Newtsworld dot com. Newsworld 438 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: is produced by Gingrish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive 439 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: producer is Guernsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The 440 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special 441 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: thanks to the team at Gingrish three sixty. If you've 442 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts 443 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: and both rate us with five stars and give us 444 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: a review so others can learn what it's all about. 445 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newtsworld, consign up for my three 446 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: free weekly columns at gingrishwe sixty dot com slash newsletter. 447 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Neutsworld.