1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. A couple of months ago, 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: I was struck by an article I read by Brian 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Wong entitled China's Myanmar quagmar. In it, he talks about 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: the February first coup in Mianmore. I wanted to look 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: more closely at Myanmore. Brian Wong, the author of the 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: article I mentioned, introduced me to Waywaynu, a Rhenja Burmese activist. 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: Knu as an outspoken advocate for the rights and equality 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: of all people in Myanmore. She was imprisoned for seven 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: years due to her father's political views. Her story of 10 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: courage and activism is remarkable. She currently serves as the 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: executive director of the Women's Peace Network in Myanmore. I 12 00:00:46,880 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: am pleased to welcome my guest, why Wainu. Some of 13 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: our listeners will still remember the country of Myanmar as Burma. 14 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: That's the name they grew up with, but it was 15 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: changed by the Burmese government and it's now called Myanmar, 16 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: so don't be too confused. It's that pretty large country 17 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: just southeast of India and due south of China. Welcome, 18 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: thank you for joining me. I want to start with 19 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: your personal story because it's so powerful and it's such 20 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: a model for other people. Did you talk just for 21 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: a couple of minutes about growing up in Myanmar, your 22 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: father's role in government, and how you ended up with 23 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: your family in prison. Sure, it's an honor to be here. So. 24 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: I was born in western part of Mienma in Rokind 25 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: State as a member of Rohinja where majority of Rohinja 26 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: live resides in Myanma, So I was bonn there. I 27 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: grew up in rock Kind State until like there was 28 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: nine and it was in early nineties. There were you know, 29 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: the repressions around my communities, and I somehow witnessed some 30 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: of those repressions which were not as severe as today. 31 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: Then we moved to Young Go mainly due to my 32 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: father's political activism. He was an elected parliamentarian in nineteen 33 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: ninety elections and he was chased by the police and 34 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: military and those days and he was actually locked up 35 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: for about a month and he was released later. However, 36 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: there has been government's meetings and other activities ongoing in 37 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: the capital city in Young Gong. So my father decided 38 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: to move from Rokine to Young Gon. So basically majority 39 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: of my childhood, I spent in Young Gon. It's an 40 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: instrumental part of my life and who I am today. 41 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: Growing up with him, being very close to him and seeing, 42 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: you know what he does all the time, and like 43 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: learning politics by just being with him has been incredible 44 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: experience for me. After nineteen nineteen elections, the military did 45 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: not transfer the power to the winning political parties, including 46 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: the National League for Democracy led by do Ag Sensuci. 47 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: The history is repeating today like today. In those days, 48 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: they locked up major political leaders and there were a 49 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: severe form of political repressions. My father was one of 50 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: the leader among the eighteen political leaders come up as 51 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: a coalition called Committee Representing People Parliament led by do 52 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: Ag Sensuci, the nobel laureate and the current leader who 53 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: has been jailed recently by the military. So due to 54 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: his political involvement with her and opposition with this opposition's group, 55 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: he was targeted at that time. It was in two 56 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: thousand and five, I was eighteen years old. He was 57 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: arrested and then two months later the entire family was arrested, 58 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: my mom, my sister, my brother and me and after 59 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: a two month of close trial within the prison without 60 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: having legal counsel, or access to legal representations and appeal. 61 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: We were sentenced to seventeen years and my father was 62 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: sentenced to forty seven years. We had to spend almost 63 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: seven years in the prison and we were released in 64 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve with the political opening at that 65 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: time in twenty eleven along with other six hundred and 66 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: twenty three political prisoner through the presidential amnesty. I'm curious, 67 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: I understand why the military would target your father. Why 68 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: did they target the whole family? That is a great question. 69 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: So they target the whole family because they hated my 70 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: father more than other politicians because of his identity being 71 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: a Rohinja, although other political activists where targeted, but the 72 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: target against the Rohinga populations has been there since early 73 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: ninety nineties. We believe part of the reason behind putting 74 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: the entire family in prison was due to our identity. 75 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: And one of the charge was the Immigration Act. So 76 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: basically they were saying that moving from Rokine's state to 77 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: young Gold, within the country, one state to another state, 78 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: it's violations of law. But there has been no law 79 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: that prevented. But they were practicing like local directive and 80 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: orders which were confidential and they sent us still, so 81 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: part of the charges was that Immigration Act and the 82 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: other charge was the Political Act, which in those days 83 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: five j the National Security Act. So why did the 84 00:05:55,160 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: military focus on the Rohinga? What was there in the 85 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: either the historic relationship or the ideology or the ethness. 86 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: I mean, it's something where when Kloster was the ambassador 87 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: to the Vaticans, who worked with the Catholic Church and 88 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: trying to find ways to help no Hinja, and it's 89 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: clearly was very deep hostility from the Myanmar dictatorship. That's 90 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: another great question I think a lot of people try 91 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: to understand. When we look at the repressions and persecutions 92 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: and human rights violations in Myanmar, we also need to 93 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: understand the psyche the ideology of the military institution itself. 94 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: The Burmese institution was born during the independence movement before 95 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:48,799 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five. In nineteen forty two, it appeared out 96 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: of strong Burmese nationalism to fight against British colony. But 97 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: then ever since we've got independence in nineteen forty eight, 98 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: the military institutions felt they are entitled to the country, 99 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: then they should be seen as guardians of the nations. 100 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:11,239 Speaker 1: But then with this political change, they started to feel 101 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: losing their power. We have an internal coup in nineteen 102 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: fifty eight under this parliamentary democracy, and then we have 103 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: actual coup in nineteen sixty two by a general Nawin 104 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:28,239 Speaker 1: who was part of the independence movement. So since nineteen 105 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: sixty two, the military has become more aggressive and their 106 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: ideology has shifted towards a more Buddhist Burman ideology from 107 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: the solely like anti fascist or anti colonial ideology. So 108 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: they have to transform as a protector of not only 109 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: nations but also Buddhism and but also Burmese majority Burman populations. 110 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: With this ideology, they created an image among the military 111 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: individuals and institutions that the nations belong to their Buddhism 112 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: and the nations belong to the ethnically Berman people group, 113 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: which is majority group in Yema. So basically very systematically 114 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: promoted Buddhist nationalist ideology. And with this ideology, they have 115 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: been using this divide and roles tactics against the ethnic 116 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: communities and repressions against their ethnic communities a different level 117 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: for their different communities. They have been implementing this project 118 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: called Burmanizations building Buddhist religious building across the country and 119 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: changing the name of the ethnic cities and villages and 120 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: all of these things like basically creating the entire nations 121 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: as the Buddhist Burmese and eliminating or destroying identity and 122 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: history of the other ethnic communities. Rohinga has been targeted 123 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:01,479 Speaker 1: more than other communities because h Muslim, the global Islamophobia 124 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: also playing there due to our religion as being majority Muslims, 125 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: felt we're targeted more than others. And one other major 126 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: reason is that for other ethnic minorities, they can be 127 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: assimilated to the Burman ethnic nationality because they are similar 128 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: to Burmese. But for the Rohinja, we're not as similar 129 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: as others, so it is extremely difficult for us to 130 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: be assimilated to become Berman or ethnic Burmese. Our language different, 131 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: our culture different, our religion different, our color different, everything 132 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: is a bit different than typical Burmese. So I think 133 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: that is the reason that they're trying to eliminate our 134 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: people from me and Marfai sending over a million people 135 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: to Bangladesh by forcefully departing over a million to Bangladesh 136 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: during the clearance operations in twenty sixteenth and seventeen, which 137 00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: you and actually concluded as its amount to dinner sides 138 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 1: and crimes to get humanity. So the challenges faced by 139 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: the Ruhinga are also matched up by the challenges faced 140 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: by other ethnic groups in the country. Are there also 141 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: traditional Burmese who are Buddhists but who disagree with the dictatorship. Yeah, 142 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: of course, so I think when we look back the 143 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: so called political transitions from twenty ten, when the Burmese 144 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 1: military was using this nationalist propaganda against the Ruhinga majority 145 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: burmin where Burmese people were blinded and they somehow, you know, 146 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: voted to the idea of ethnic cleansing or the idea 147 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: of even genocide. There has been people, particularly the ethnic 148 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: nationality groups, ethnic communities have been fighting against the military 149 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: since independence because they didn't kept the independence promises. We 150 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: have over seventy years of civil war in all other borders, 151 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: and in Chinese border, in Thai border, and throughout the country. 152 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: And at the same time, you know, the people of 153 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: Niema have been fighting for democracy over and over since 154 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two. The country was folled by the military 155 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: with false promises of flourishing discipline, democracy and now you 156 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: know they stayed a coup during the past ten years. 157 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: Not only they were folled by false promises for democracy, 158 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: but also they were falled with Buddhist Burman nationalism against 159 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: the Rhenja. In particular, while genocidal campaign was ongoing since 160 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 1: twenty twelve against Rhinja, there were many ethnic Burmis and 161 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: average people in Minnma have supported the idea of a 162 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: spell in Rohinja killing Rohinja. They have been brainwashed and 163 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 1: the propaganda was so strong they didn't realize that they 164 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: were in the trap and the military will stage the 165 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: coup take over the country again. But now I think 166 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 1: the society has awakened and this is a chance for 167 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: us to reambision a future of a more inclusive democracy. 168 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: But you know, the society may have opened up, but 169 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: I think as late as March the military killed over 170 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: six hundred people. So is the military trying to claim 171 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: the power by using force or you see the military 172 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: gradually negotiating itself out of office. No, not at all. 173 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: So the military state to coup one very fast. It's 174 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: been over four months now. The people of Ni'anma are 175 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: standing against the military coup in many many incredible firms, 176 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: from younger generation Generation Z two women, workers' parents, and 177 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: all generations. We have stopped not a day to fight 178 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: against the military dictatorship, and the military has used violence 179 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: attack against their peaceful protesters, killed over eight hundred people 180 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: and arrested almost five thousand people, and the balance has 181 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: been continuing. The protest has shifted to many forms. Until 182 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, used to be very peaceful and 183 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: non valanced forms, but now they added a more aggressive 184 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: resistance valance attack against the military as well. So now 185 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: it's both non violence and violence, as well as many 186 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: other forms of resistance including boycott against the military businesses 187 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 1: and the military companies, consumer boycotts, the public servants refusing 188 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: to go to the public offices. So it's been still 189 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: very very strong and active. But military continued to use 190 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: violence against the peaceful protesters as well as where resistance 191 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: fightings are ongoing in ethnic areas. They have been using 192 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: the strike against these ethnic communities who have been fighting 193 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:30,239 Speaker 1: against them with guns and the weapons and the military 194 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: trainings that they have is disproportionate. But yet the military 195 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: is using these heavy artilleries and weapons as well as 196 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: a strike, which is violations of war crimes and targeting civilians, 197 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: killing young people as young as six. Several hundred thousand 198 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: were actually forcibly sent out of the country. I think 199 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: mostly to Bangladesh. Is that situation still a refugee situation 200 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: with hundreds of thousands of Rhina living in Bangladesh. So 201 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: over a million Rohinga in Bangladesh living in very destitute 202 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: situations and sub human stand it. But there are still 203 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: many other Rohinja refugees all over the country. Because the 204 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: persecutions did not start in twenty twelve. The persecutions against Rohina, 205 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: the genocidal policy has introduced since nineteen nineties and you 206 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: can even say since nineteen eighties while they remove our 207 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: name from the ethnic nationality lists from Yanma as well 208 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: as unfair practices of citizenship processes. So with this persecutions, 209 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: the Rohinga has been fleeing from the country to escape 210 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: these persecutions for decades. So we have Rohinga refugees in Malaysia, 211 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: in India and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and even in 212 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: Australia and in New Zealand. All over the world. Out 213 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: to third of our populations has been bell from our land. 214 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: Now Romanian Rohinga in rekind state over around six and 215 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: red thousand than about one hundred and fifty thousand internally 216 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: displaced person camps for nine years now since twenty twelve, 217 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: they are living like in apartheid conditions as segregated from 218 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: the rest of their kind populations with limited access to 219 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: their basic human needs including access to healthcare, educations, employment 220 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: opportunities and everything else. So that situation's continuing and Rohinga 221 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: who travel outside of their camps or villages could be 222 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: arrested and put in jail for several years. And Rohinga 223 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: are acquired to take permissions for every single move that 224 00:16:46,800 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: they take if you're not a traditional Burmese Buddhist to 225 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: what extended are all of those other ethnic groups under pressure? 226 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: So all other ethnic communities, most of them are Christians 227 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: and some are Buddhists as well, but the military intensify 228 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: the fighting against these ethnic communities lately, and when they 229 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: have this fighting against them, they basically target the entire 230 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: population civilian and rape women, you know, kill people. And 231 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: the practice of arbitrary arrest and extra judicial killing has 232 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: been like daily life experiences of the people in ethnic 233 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: communities in addition to limiting their access to humanitarian aids 234 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: if they become internality space person or war refugees. In 235 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: addition to the ability to access education, healthcare, and other livelihoods, 236 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: there has been the active practices of arbitrary arrest, killing, force, labor, 237 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: and many forms of violence against these ethnic communities, including 238 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: sexual violence. The sexual balance has been used as a 239 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: whippon of the war against ethnic communities for decades. There 240 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: are several women's organizations including Shan Women Action Network, Women 241 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: Link of Burma. They came out with a very substantial 242 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: report on how the military has used these sexual violence 243 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: against the women, rape as a whapon of war for 244 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:37,719 Speaker 1: decades and there were no accountability for their practices. Thus, 245 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: the military continued to use rape as a whipon against 246 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: the Rhinja population to terrorize and to destroy entire populations. 247 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: So there has been thousands of women who have been 248 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: raped during the clearance operations in twenty sixteen and seventeen 249 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: and they're living witnesses in refugee camps today. It's part 250 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: of the psychology of using rape as a weapon of 251 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: war to enforce humiliation on the defeated zide. It is 252 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: so for the case of Rohinja, it was to humiliate 253 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: and to terrorize the entire populations because we were not 254 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 1: actively fighting against the military and it was not civil 255 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: war unlike in many other ethnic communities and situations. The 256 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: motif was very clear that they want to humiliate Rohinja 257 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: as a group so that they would never return to 258 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: Nihanmai once they are expelled from their land. And you know, 259 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: it's not just that rape to humiliate and terrorize, but 260 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: they actually very aggressively conducted mutilations. They raped, they killed, 261 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: the torture and they killed. And this practice has been 262 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: done in front of their family members, the whole village openly, 263 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: and in some cases why as they were raping female, 264 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: they were killing their husband and taking their children and 265 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: putting them into the fire, so that parents were more 266 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: terrorized before they've been killed. So it's been very aggressive, 267 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: very horrific form of violations against fellow humans. So given 268 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: that level of barbaric behavior and ruthlessness, and then you 269 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: seem like a remarkably balanced normal person. How did you 270 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: survive in prison as a very young girl. It must 271 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: have been a time of constant fear when we were arrested. 272 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 1: I mean I was barely a teenager, so it was 273 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: extremely hard to understand why we were put in jail. 274 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: I mean, as a teenager, I supposed to be going 275 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: to school, and it was extremely difficult to understand and 276 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: hard to coope with it for a couple of years. 277 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: But then I just I did you know, I cannot 278 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: just give up and be sad all the time and 279 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: pray for the release and it's not going to happen. 280 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: So I decided to just change my mind and stay strong, 281 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 1: and I feed myself in many many ways. I tried 282 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: to spend my time, including readings and talking to people, 283 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: and I realized what happened to us was not our fault. 284 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: It's actually the military dictatorship who's supposed to be accountable 285 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: for their act against innocent people like us. So I 286 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,959 Speaker 1: guess that notions and that empowered me and I was 287 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: able to stay strong. But when I was released, I 288 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: was really expecting that we will have democracy and we 289 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: will be able to contribute to building and democratic nations. 290 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: But instead what I realized was in ethnic areas that 291 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: persecution has actually intensified in many many incidences, and in 292 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: particular in the case of Rahinga It's not only that 293 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: the past section so human rights violations has had to intensify, 294 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,199 Speaker 1: but it's actually brought us to a very dark and 295 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: horrific experiences of this genocide which remain unaddressed today. I 296 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: was very closely involved in trying to stop the genocide 297 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: as well as end in impunity for the military. We've 298 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: been documenting what happens to the people very closely. Even 299 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: learning and documenting this process is not easy, because you know, 300 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: one incident after one incident is there's no good story 301 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: at all, and it's extremely difficult to mentally cope with. 302 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: As well. I was privileged to be healthy, to have 303 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: more freedom than many of those people who have been 304 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: targeted for many forms of violations, including sexual violence. Since 305 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,239 Speaker 1: I was released, I went back to school and I 306 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: was constantly learning to grow myself. So I need to 307 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: use my knowledge, my experience, and my ability to influence 308 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: to help others. If we don't do that, who else 309 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 1: is going to help? Who else will do this work 310 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: and we will be just witnessing while our fellow human 311 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: being of communities are being killed or deprived of their 312 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 1: human dignity. That I felt, it's the sense of duty 313 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: and responsibility for our fellow communities, regardless of my community 314 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: or not. I cannot just sit and watch to let 315 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: this happen, and I need to take actions. And that's 316 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: how I think feeling of privilege and enjoying freedom empowered 317 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: me further to take actions. So I think the evolution 318 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 1: of Myanmar may be about to begin. I just have 319 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: a sense that time is running out. We don't know 320 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: how long it will be, but we are very committed 321 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: to win this fight and to really change the country 322 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: to bring freedom, democracy, equality and peace in Myanmar. We're 323 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: going to follow your courageous journey and we're going to 324 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: link to your organization of Women's Peace Network, and I 325 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: look forward as your journey continues to maybe doing another 326 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: interview with you in the future. So I really want 327 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: to thank you. This has been a very enlightening at 328 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: the same time very humbling conversation and you're a very 329 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: brave woman and I admire greatly what you're doing. Thank 330 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: you very much. It's been an honor talking to you too. 331 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guests. Why I know you can 332 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: read more about China and Myanmar on our show page 333 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gingwis Sweet 334 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: sixty and iHeartMedia, our executive producers Debbie Myers, our producers 335 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: guard Zie Sloan, and our researchers Rachel Peterson. The artwork 336 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: for the show was created by Steve Pendley. Special thanks 337 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: to the team at Gingwis Sweet sixty. If you've been 338 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and 339 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: both rate us with five stars and give us a 340 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, 341 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: listeners at Newtsworld can sign up for my three free 342 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,919 Speaker 1: weekly columns at Gingwich three sixty dot com slash newsletter. 343 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: I'm Newt Gingrich. This is news World.