Speaker 1: You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to
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Speaker 1: Check them out. My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the
Speaker 1: host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be
Speaker 1: your host into the world of hunting the icon of
Speaker 1: the North American wilderness. Prepare. We'll talk about tactics, gear, conservation.
Speaker 1: We will also bring you into some of the wildest
Speaker 1: country on the planet chasing bare. Colby and I spent
Speaker 1: the week in Washington State with Buddy Woodberry and part
Speaker 1: of the time with Jason Duby of w Hunting Supply.
Speaker 1: We went up there are on a bear hunt. We
Speaker 1: hunted some big country for three and a half days
Speaker 1: out there, and you'll hear more about that later. But
Speaker 1: we've spent a good bit of time at w getting
Speaker 1: to know more about these guys and what they do.
Speaker 1: In this podcast, we get to hear more of of
Speaker 1: Buddy's story. We talk hounds, we talk equipment, and we
Speaker 1: just have an overall great conversation with Buddy. Jason. You're
Speaker 1: gonna enjoy this. We are in the Cascade Mountains of
Speaker 1: southwest Washington. We're not at the global headquarters today, No
Speaker 1: global headquarters. Kolbe and I are up here with Buddy
Speaker 1: Woodberry and Jason Duby w Hound SPA. And you know,
Speaker 1: Southwest Washington is not just w House spots where you live.
Speaker 1: You guys are from here, Yeah, not not Yakima like
Speaker 1: you said the first time when I first is there
Speaker 1: a Yakima Washington? Is there? Yeah? That you know it.
Speaker 1: So a while back on an on a ad for
Speaker 1: w I said, they're from Yakima, Washington. That has spun
Speaker 1: all the way into the planning for us to be here, because,
Speaker 1: as we're going to tell people in a minute, we're
Speaker 1: on a hunt in southeast southwest Washington. And I told
Speaker 1: Colby where we were going, and he looked up the
Speaker 1: weather for Yakoma, Washington, which was very different from your cult,
Speaker 1: which is in you're correct, but but but now you
Speaker 1: guys are now, buddy, you were you grew up here? No,
Speaker 1: I was actually born in Colorado, Lara Springs. When did
Speaker 1: you move to Washington? I think I was for my
Speaker 1: first year I hunted. I was fourteen, I think in Colorado,
Speaker 1: I hunt with my dad, and you know, I didn't
Speaker 1: have my own license, so I kind of went with him,
Speaker 1: but I took my hunter head here. So I think
Speaker 1: it was like twelve or fourteen. I don't a long
Speaker 1: time ago. And now you're from Oregon, yes, yeah, southern
Speaker 1: Oregon southern Oregon. So you were you raised there? Yeah,
Speaker 1: early part of my life we lived over in Lincoln
Speaker 1: City like coastal Um, Newport, Oregon, Lincoln City, Depot Bay.
Speaker 1: And then when my parents split, we ended up moving
Speaker 1: down to Grant's Pass Medford area because we had family there,
Speaker 1: my grandparents, and I've been there ever since. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: just so you guys will know, I have alotted Colby
Speaker 1: one corny joke per hour you get just any time
Speaker 1: you want to cash that, just just cashing in. So
Speaker 1: this is an hour long podcast, you get one. If
Speaker 1: it's two podcasting, get tot you alright. So yeah, well
Speaker 1: I'm from Texas originally from Texas joke if Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: so Kolby and I are up here bear hunting. Today
Speaker 1: is August one, which is which is the opener for
Speaker 1: the for Washington state, the bear hunt, and U we
Speaker 1: are spotting stack hunting. Um, you can't run, can't use
Speaker 1: hounds in Washington for bear. But yeah, there was there
Speaker 1: were several things that kind of made us decide to
Speaker 1: come up here. Um. Number one being I've heard about
Speaker 1: Washington bear hunting for a long time. I mean, this
Speaker 1: state has a lot of bear it's your classic like
Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest. Uh, Douglas fir Like described the would the
Speaker 1: timber to me here? The terrain topography, Yeah, you're Amusto
Speaker 1: looking at like Doug fur here. We've seen some spruce
Speaker 1: up there and a couple of spots spruce. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: stopped at I stopped and she called me a hemlock.
Speaker 1: I found one because I would have never even probably
Speaker 1: noticed that, you know, but we've got the hemlock and
Speaker 1: wouldn't wouldn't. Rambo First Blood Part one shot up here
Speaker 1: somewhere I think it was. Okay, well, okay, anybody that's
Speaker 1: listening to the Bare Hunting Magazine podcast is for sure
Speaker 1: gonna have watched Rambo First Blood Part one. Okay, and
Speaker 1: you know the original scenes in that movie once Sylvester Stallone,
Speaker 1: you know, he's just like this renegade straight out of
Speaker 1: Vietnam War, got this big hair. He's wearing his jacket,
Speaker 1: you know, his his his military issue jacket with his
Speaker 1: name on it, and he's walking that music is like no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna make him go watch I don't know,
Speaker 1: you don't need to watch the beautiful scenes of the
Speaker 1: pick Northwest, and you see these mountains that look just
Speaker 1: like these. So if you want to know what it
Speaker 1: looks like where we're bear hunting and where we're recording
Speaker 1: this podcast, we've we've pulled our trucks up. We're out
Speaker 1: in the middle of some National forest landing. It looks
Speaker 1: like that. So just go watch the trailers Rambo First
Speaker 1: Blood Part one. I think it came out looks just
Speaker 1: like that. That's where we're bear hunt So now these
Speaker 1: woods hunting here to me is like hunting on the moon.
Speaker 1: It's like very different from even in Montana, where we
Speaker 1: were at just a few months ago. It's it's very thick,
Speaker 1: very thick, except for there's a few there's not there's
Speaker 1: openings from timber harvest, so there's this blocks of timber
Speaker 1: that they would have cut, but there's also some natural
Speaker 1: openings in different like around rock out croppings that some
Speaker 1: of the higher elevations, which the highest elevations that we're
Speaker 1: going to be hunting around here, it's like four thousand feet,
Speaker 1: so the relief would be like from like a thousand
Speaker 1: feet to like four thousand feet, so you know you're
Speaker 1: not getting into like the really high elevations yeah, you're not.
Speaker 1: Like if we went over like St. Helen's. I was
Speaker 1: telling you something spots up there you can kind of
Speaker 1: get up or you know, hood or some of these
Speaker 1: there's some big mountains, only a few of them, like
Speaker 1: you could see them peeking out. You know, we're showing
Speaker 1: you the Five Sisters they call them. But for the
Speaker 1: most part, we're about as high as we can get
Speaker 1: around here. So in several places we've been today, we've
Speaker 1: been able to see Mount St. Helen's like way off
Speaker 1: in the background. So I wouldn't have known much about
Speaker 1: Mount St. Helen's accepted is a massive just like Single
Speaker 1: Peak Mountain. I mean it just looks like a big
Speaker 1: triangle that has had the top third blown off of it.
Speaker 1: Tell me the story of Mount St Helen's blowing up,
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you you it was a yeah
Speaker 1: it was think did they know? Yeah they did. Like
Speaker 1: you can watch YouTube videos and you'll see that. I mean,
Speaker 1: if some people died, you know, was it Truman? He
Speaker 1: wouldn't leave his cabin. He's like, I'm going with the mountain,
Speaker 1: and he went with the mountain. Uh. You know what,
Speaker 1: if you YouTube you can kind of see some videos
Speaker 1: of let me just just gray you know, people hiking in,
Speaker 1: you know, hiking behind the barrier, so they had it
Speaker 1: all blocked off, and I mean they knew it was
Speaker 1: they knew it was smoking or rumbling or for how
Speaker 1: long did they know that this mountain is gonna blow?
Speaker 1: I think they could see the bulge, so they've seen
Speaker 1: the mountain was bulging. And so instead of coming out
Speaker 1: the top like a regular yeah, instead of coming out
Speaker 1: of the top like a regular volcano, it just blew
Speaker 1: the side out and then this huge slide like you know,
Speaker 1: just slid the whole thing, and then all those if
Speaker 1: you you know, when you kill bear tonight and you
Speaker 1: got time to the second bear because you get a
Speaker 1: second bear a tag. But maybe we'll go two or
Speaker 1: some you know, and go show you some you know
Speaker 1: that you see some big mud slides where just it's incredible.
Speaker 1: Watch some YouTube videos some of the slides and the
Speaker 1: water and the fallout was unreal. I mean the ash
Speaker 1: fall out across all over the place was unreal. I
Speaker 1: mean like thousands of miles away. I think they said
Speaker 1: it circled the earth like seven times. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It was like the atmosphere's wow. And you still see
Speaker 1: that mountain smoke sometimes to this day. Yeah, not I
Speaker 1: haven't seen it, but ten years ago you would. It
Speaker 1: was almost ten years ago fishing. I don't know times
Speaker 1: times relevant, but it used to be like little many eruptions,
Speaker 1: and you know, you'd be up there and like I
Speaker 1: remember when we first came from Colorado, we hiked and
Speaker 1: and we kept seeing these signs like you know, no
Speaker 1: permits required above Alphe's four thousand feet or something. There's
Speaker 1: some limits that you gotta get a permit. And so
Speaker 1: we come from Colorado and Colora Springs was seven thousand,
Speaker 1: so we're looking at like fet we don't need a
Speaker 1: permit for that, you know what I mean? Like we
Speaker 1: live at seven thousand back home. And so we hiked
Speaker 1: and we got up in there. We looked and it
Speaker 1: just spout us some steam mountain was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: you don't have enough time to get off. The big
Speaker 1: mountains volcanoes they really yea, they haven't gone. Wow, that's
Speaker 1: why colbe I live in Arkansas. We do have a
Speaker 1: big fault line that comes to Arkansas. Now, thinking about
Speaker 1: like these big natural disasters that like affect ecosystems, I
Speaker 1: was just reading on the way here on a in
Speaker 1: a book about there's some big terrain feature in Washington
Speaker 1: that was formed by an when the when the glaciers
Speaker 1: were melting a gazillion years ago, there was an ice
Speaker 1: damn that was formed and up in Canada, and ice
Speaker 1: damn broke in a body of water the size of
Speaker 1: Lake Michigan. Flowed out of the single section of this
Speaker 1: broken ice dam in three hours, and it formed one
Speaker 1: of these. It's one of these huge canyons in Washington State. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know we we live in like this.
Speaker 1: Anywhere you live, there is a story and there are
Speaker 1: experts that understand the story of that terrain. And I'm
Speaker 1: always interested in topography and geology and like you know,
Speaker 1: just how land features came about. But like, um, I
Speaker 1: can't remember the context of the book was even talking about.
Speaker 1: But think about a lake, a body of water the
Speaker 1: size of Lake Michigan that would drain in a matter
Speaker 1: of hours and the it basically just carved like a
Speaker 1: massive just pressure washer. It's like you know, and it's
Speaker 1: a big canyon, I'm quite certain, as in Washington. But anyway,
Speaker 1: not st Helens it it uh, it change the ecosystem
Speaker 1: all right, especially on that mountain. It's impressive once you
Speaker 1: get like get into the mud flow. And now it's
Speaker 1: starting to get green. You know, when we first moved
Speaker 1: here from Colorado, it was it was just bear, just ash,
Speaker 1: you know, And now vegetation, I mean pretty good. It's
Speaker 1: actually trying out to be pretty good habitat. And there's
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, there's a mountain hell and
Speaker 1: elk herds. I think wes the largest elk curtain Washington.
Speaker 1: I don't quote me, but it's destination, isn't it. Guys
Speaker 1: like the muzzleload hunt that. Yeah. Yeah, well we'll uh well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're about to learn a lot about this place.
Speaker 1: I haven't been up here very much, but buddy, what
Speaker 1: kind of what kind of hound hunting are you doing
Speaker 1: in Washington? Hardly? Any Um, there's coon hunting. I travel
Speaker 1: to Oregon. I do a lot of Bobcatton and Oregon. Okay,
Speaker 1: Bob hunt so um, I don't. I don't break off
Speaker 1: of raccoons. I don't target him a whole lot, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I I don't like the dark, dark all night,
Speaker 1: and I've given up on the dark guy like cutting
Speaker 1: in the morning. So I, um, but I used to
Speaker 1: raccoon hunt, you know, quite a bit. But now I
Speaker 1: just head out in them to Old Oregon and bobcat
Speaker 1: hunt and cougars, you know, I don't again, they're not
Speaker 1: legal to to run, but I don't break my dogs
Speaker 1: off them because you know, I'd like to use them
Speaker 1: for studies and stuff like that. You'll help, Yeah, So
Speaker 1: you do some stuff for the for the states, not
Speaker 1: a lot. If they um a few times, they'll call
Speaker 1: if they need if they have a problem with cougar
Speaker 1: um in town or something like that, you know. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then I have been working with helping Bart George.
Speaker 1: You know, he's doing a sugar study up in northeast
Speaker 1: Washington for really interesting you should you should do a
Speaker 1: podcast with him sometime, but he, uh, that's neat where
Speaker 1: they're doing cougar human interaction and so part of that
Speaker 1: is is you got to catch cougar to collar it.
Speaker 1: And then he has a radio that he plays I
Speaker 1: think he's on Steve you know meat Eater's podcast talking
Speaker 1: about it. But he plays a sound and then sees
Speaker 1: we measure how far the you know what when the
Speaker 1: cougar leaves. You know, and how how much energy cougars
Speaker 1: at like you. This is after you caught a cougar
Speaker 1: with hounds, tranquilise it, put a collar on it. We
Speaker 1: put it, then you go back a garment color on it.
Speaker 1: So we were able to track it every two seconds,
Speaker 1: and so we can wake that collar up, use many
Speaker 1: callers we can, you know, have got a special software
Speaker 1: on there, so you can't just track. You couldn't take
Speaker 1: your alpha and go track this sugar. But it's a
Speaker 1: special you know, software that makes it so that nobody
Speaker 1: else can track it. And so after you so we
Speaker 1: go catch the cougar and then they put the caller
Speaker 1: on it, and then we leave, you know, we're done.
Speaker 1: And then next week we we back in there we
Speaker 1: find out where the cougar is. And before we take
Speaker 1: the dogs, Bart will take a speaker whoever's you know,
Speaker 1: collecting the data, and you blast the speakers as loud
Speaker 1: as you can pretty much eighty decibels or whatever his
Speaker 1: study says, and you start walking towards the cougar, just
Speaker 1: walking directly towards the cougar, and then seeing when the
Speaker 1: cougar leaves from the sound, if he if if he
Speaker 1: leaves from the sound, and so you measure that and
Speaker 1: so on some of them, he's like ten yards, you know,
Speaker 1: twenty yards. The whole point of it is like for hikers,
Speaker 1: for hunters, for people that are out in the woods.
Speaker 1: Like it's kind of like trying to say, how often
Speaker 1: are we walking by these animals and don't even know it?
Speaker 1: Or how often or what what maybe somebody would need
Speaker 1: to do to alert lion to their presence if they
Speaker 1: were trying to not encounter a lion. Because in Washington
Speaker 1: there hasn't been hound hunting of cougars for almost twenty years. Now,
Speaker 1: you know ninety he was only seven that Oregon a
Speaker 1: ninety six for Washington, so you know, twenty four years
Speaker 1: there's been no hound hunting out cougars. And and what
Speaker 1: we're I mean, I don't want to speak for Bart's data,
Speaker 1: but what we're seeing is those cats are not afraid
Speaker 1: of human voice or human people. And so after we
Speaker 1: measure that, he measures basically the energy the cougar uses
Speaker 1: to get away from um his human sound. You know,
Speaker 1: it's actually that he plays I think he plays the
Speaker 1: Meat Eater podcast. So we're walking into I always joke
Speaker 1: I said, if they were talked to Steve, He's never
Speaker 1: gonna be like, kill cougar over there, because yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just gonna just take off running as soon as they
Speaker 1: hear his voice, because yeah. And so then after they
Speaker 1: measure that energy, and then we take the dogs and
Speaker 1: we go catch it. And so it's basically hazing it.
Speaker 1: Um you we we treat it, um, give it an
Speaker 1: unpleasant you know, I mean, they don't like to be caught,
Speaker 1: and so and then we leave and then were they
Speaker 1: don't like to be make fun of. Yeah, so you
Speaker 1: get under the tree and you kind of ye and
Speaker 1: call it a putty taty whatever. That was Kolbe's corny joke.
Speaker 1: That counts for you. Sorry, all right? And then uh,
Speaker 1: they leave, you know, you leave and turn the call
Speaker 1: her back off. And then now why are they hazing him? Um?
Speaker 1: To see? If so, the question is is can can
Speaker 1: they change cougar behavior? You know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1: there's a biologists say, oh, you just can't change cougar behavior,
Speaker 1: and so maybe you can, maybe you can't. Oh with
Speaker 1: hounds period interact, how do you how do you catch
Speaker 1: a cougar without dogs? How are you gonna call her one? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know, it can happen, so as soon as that
Speaker 1: cougar leaves. Like, so the question that they're trying to
Speaker 1: answer is what Um I have to go back and
Speaker 1: look at his statement, but I think so one of
Speaker 1: the questions is is there's a lot of deprivation kills
Speaker 1: in Washington. So basically government you know, game wardens, whatever.
Speaker 1: So cougar comes in and kills you know, an animal,
Speaker 1: so they have to kill that cougar. We'd rather see
Speaker 1: it sport hunting. I mean, like honestly, we'd rather see
Speaker 1: those cougars utilize it, you know the fact that they
Speaker 1: gotta kill an animal because it does what cougars do
Speaker 1: and kill things. Um. So, so the question is is
Speaker 1: can the behavior change when here's people walking, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like if you know there's it was
Speaker 1: the last year or two years ago, so you know
Speaker 1: a biker got killed and then Oregon hiker got killed.
Speaker 1: Um there was a stretch like there was been yeah,
Speaker 1: and then the last two years has been at a
Speaker 1: biker Where did the guy kill that line with his
Speaker 1: bare hands? Yeah? That was Colorado. And so really it
Speaker 1: comes down to is there a better way you know,
Speaker 1: with cougars are such a political fight. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: bears to you always say the bears of the gateway.
Speaker 1: You know, Um that the I mean the predators I
Speaker 1: think is you know, in general, if you're you know,
Speaker 1: you're a bear hunting podcast, so you always focus on
Speaker 1: the bears. But bears, wolves, cougars, I mean, those are
Speaker 1: your three predators, three things that that are politically just
Speaker 1: difficult to make any headway because you've got so many
Speaker 1: different user groups that come in there. So we were
Speaker 1: in a meeting and and the question was was raised that, um,
Speaker 1: you know essentially, Um, it was kind of brought up
Speaker 1: on pursuit, you know, just treating a cougar and and
Speaker 1: leaving it, you know, not harvesting it, catching release. Um
Speaker 1: does is that harmful to a cougar? Is that you know?
Speaker 1: Or safety? Maybe? Is this what's happening? Is this what
Speaker 1: they're trying to study? So they you catch a cougar,
Speaker 1: then you measure the amount of human pressure that it
Speaker 1: takes to spook it, and then you tree it again,
Speaker 1: so you haze it again and so the next time
Speaker 1: it hears people walking, it takes off quicker. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: is that the idea? Yeah, the energy the cougar uses
Speaker 1: to escape. So so the what we're seeing researchers earlier,
Speaker 1: the earlier stuff that we we've seen is they don't
Speaker 1: use much energy to escape, like they are very confident,
Speaker 1: letting you go right up to them. On again, I
Speaker 1: don't want to speak for his his his study, but
Speaker 1: we've seen the first time, you don't. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: had cougars that just like at the point where he's
Speaker 1: nervous that something bad's gonna happen, you know, and he's like,
Speaker 1: and then you catch it with the dogs, and so
Speaker 1: the next time that cougar is like, I'm better. I
Speaker 1: remember this, you know, I don't. I didn't like the dogs,
Speaker 1: you know. So they you know, maybe the first time
Speaker 1: with ten yards and the next time will be thirty
Speaker 1: yards or whatever. It's like you might start leaving, and
Speaker 1: by the end of it he does at four times.
Speaker 1: And by the end of it, I think I haven't
Speaker 1: talked to him in a while. But most of the
Speaker 1: time they are not they're not sticking around, but you're
Speaker 1: not gonna they are kind of like getting the way effective.
Speaker 1: It seems like that, I mean, I don't again, he's
Speaker 1: got to wait for the study. There's still another year,
Speaker 1: so maybe it changes. I mean, we just want to
Speaker 1: see what data is and we want to follow the data.
Speaker 1: W Hunting Supply is the supplier that you need to
Speaker 1: use for all your dog related needs, whether you're needing
Speaker 1: garment stuff, leashes and collars, custom t shirts, even technical support.
Speaker 1: That's what these guys are known for, is there is
Speaker 1: their customer service and even tech support that they give
Speaker 1: to people with garment, electronics and different things that as
Speaker 1: far as I know, they will probably even give you
Speaker 1: dog support called W with all your dog questions too.
Speaker 1: I'm kidding. W Hunting Supply. They're they're known for their
Speaker 1: customer service and it's a it's a great company. We've
Speaker 1: just spent a week with them. Heck, you're listening to
Speaker 1: the podcast now where we're talking to them. These are
Speaker 1: these are good guys doing good things for export happen.
Speaker 1: Western Bear Foundation is a nonprofit hunting conservation organization being
Speaker 1: a mouthpiece for bear hunters bears western United States. These
Speaker 1: guys are fighting the good fight. Join their organization. Check
Speaker 1: them out Western Bear Foundation. This ball. When I'm muzzloader hunting,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be using a c v A muzzloader. These
Speaker 1: guys have been around since nine one heard of their products.
Speaker 1: They build multiple types of muzzloaders. Some of them are
Speaker 1: more entry level, some of them are very high end.
Speaker 1: C v A is a great company. They make a
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Speaker 1: barrel maker that makes all their barrels. They're accurate, they're dependable,
Speaker 1: cutting edge muzzloader technology from c v A. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be shooting this. Jason Ut, do you work
Speaker 1: for Buddy for w um What do you what kind
Speaker 1: of what kind of dogs do you run? What do
Speaker 1: you hunt? Right now? When we've run mainly gray fox
Speaker 1: running a bunch of running walker crosses, and there's I
Speaker 1: think there's a little bit of triggering a couple of them.
Speaker 1: But they tree in these gray fox, uh, some of them.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm kind of at a point right now
Speaker 1: where I got a fairly young pack. Uh. And they're
Speaker 1: not real quick to locate yet. They can run a
Speaker 1: track real good, but they're a little light on the locate.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the gray fox will tree. It makes it
Speaker 1: so are you are you harvesting gray fox with these dogs? No?
Speaker 1: Unless unless something happens, and they get lucky and catch
Speaker 1: one by themselves, you know, on the ground. I don't
Speaker 1: I don't harvest any of them. So, um, how do
Speaker 1: you like? We have gray fox in Arkansas and I
Speaker 1: wouldn't know where to tell you to start strick a
Speaker 1: track on one, Like, how are you specifically finding gray
Speaker 1: fox to run? Uh? Well, I mean most of the
Speaker 1: areas that I hunt, we've hunted for years, you know,
Speaker 1: and we just know there's game there. But a lot
Speaker 1: of creeks, you know, creek drainages. Um, they seem to
Speaker 1: follow that pretty well. If you've got a good rodent population,
Speaker 1: it seems like they stick around. How does the great
Speaker 1: fox run? Like? What's its pattern like? For For people
Speaker 1: that wouldn't be familiar with animals and running dogs? What
Speaker 1: what guys that run different types of animals learned is
Speaker 1: that different animals do different stuff. Like a bear might
Speaker 1: just be lying out of the country, meaning he might
Speaker 1: go straight up over a mountain and straight down the valley.
Speaker 1: And I've heard, uh, guys in Arkansas that are running
Speaker 1: deer a lot of times they'll say, dear, make big
Speaker 1: loops big you know, mile and a half mile circles
Speaker 1: sometimes a coon doesn't really have much. From my experience,
Speaker 1: that coon doesn't have that big of a strategy. When
Speaker 1: a dog gets after me, pretty much runs up a tree.
Speaker 1: I mean, um, I've heard you know, so every animal
Speaker 1: has the specific thing that it does. What is the
Speaker 1: uh you know, a normal great fox, they look pretty good.
Speaker 1: I mean you can hear a lot of the half
Speaker 1: mile maybe, you know, do you find the smaller game
Speaker 1: don't run as big as big as circles. It really depends.
Speaker 1: I mean, if they're educated, they run different than a fox.
Speaker 1: You just stumble on, you know. I mean we're running
Speaker 1: the same fox times sometimes, you know, because we we
Speaker 1: just choose not to harvest them so we can hunt.
Speaker 1: I'm the opposite of Buddy. Buddy likes hunt in the
Speaker 1: morning and I hunt at night after family goes to
Speaker 1: bed and go hit the woods. But you know, an
Speaker 1: educated one they learn just like anything else. You know.
Speaker 1: They some of them are road runners. They'll hit the
Speaker 1: road and make you think they're a coyote for a
Speaker 1: while and you'll be second guests and everything. But yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of ins and outs. You know. They'll they'll
Speaker 1: usually hit a road and try to trick a dog there,
Speaker 1: but if they're going out of the country, they'll usually
Speaker 1: loop back and stay fairly close to their home range.
Speaker 1: You just said something there a fox trying to trick
Speaker 1: a dog. Let me ask you, two guys, master houndsman,
Speaker 1: do you really think an animal tries to quote air
Speaker 1: quote trick a dog. Well, let me let me be
Speaker 1: all the case. And then you answered, I don't think entirely. Okay,
Speaker 1: I've got both of you answered. Now. My my question
Speaker 1: is because I've heard people say that this is an
Speaker 1: animal reasoning like I am going to cross through this
Speaker 1: creek and then cross back over the creek. And when
Speaker 1: we see that, we see reason because we think in reason,
Speaker 1: we think in logical terms, and so we're like, he
Speaker 1: was trying to trick the dogs, because maybe it did.
Speaker 1: But is that just a natural uh, just maybe maybe
Speaker 1: maybe a strategy to lose, you know, something that's pursuing them.
Speaker 1: So it's that sense. I guess it would be a trick,
Speaker 1: but I don't know, so I'll have Buddy go first.
Speaker 1: I would say I've seen it too many times. I mean,
Speaker 1: and this happened last season. You know, I'd run a
Speaker 1: fox one night. The next night, my buddy had come
Speaker 1: in and run the same fox, and we know it's
Speaker 1: the same fox because it's the same fox every time.
Speaker 1: And he's like, man, this thing ran really weird tonight.
Speaker 1: It hit this creek and then it just went down.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, that's where he lost me two nights ago,
Speaker 1: you know, and we just see it. I don't think
Speaker 1: that they're necessarily trying to to seek that out to
Speaker 1: lose them. I mean, maybe a little, but if they
Speaker 1: find something that works, I mean I see continuously they
Speaker 1: go back and try to hit those same spots to
Speaker 1: throw those dogs or same with running roads, you know,
Speaker 1: the same areas I'm hunting now, four or five years ago.
Speaker 1: I mean, we had a couple in there that would
Speaker 1: just run a mile a pavement road sometimes because they
Speaker 1: knew they could get away from the dogs that way.
Speaker 1: And you'd swear you were burning they were. They were
Speaker 1: on the right side. They don't want to get hit, right.
Speaker 1: But Yeah, I don't know about the reasoning, but I
Speaker 1: think when they find something that works, they definitely go
Speaker 1: back to it. Yeah. Yeah, And and I guess it's
Speaker 1: a uh a way to describe it, like the term
Speaker 1: like when I've heard people say, Oh, he's trying to
Speaker 1: trick the dogs. That's what I'm always like, Well, maybe
Speaker 1: he's just doing what a fox does and he's not,
Speaker 1: but I see, but we're basically saying the same thing,
Speaker 1: because if a fox does that, it's a it's a natural,
Speaker 1: adapted strategy to survive. That's worked for him, and so
Speaker 1: he's gonna do it again and he can't. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: were you gonna say, buddy? So I kind of lean
Speaker 1: towards your mentality, like I don't think that the and
Speaker 1: so I don't fox hunt. So I don't know fox
Speaker 1: and I don't pretend to be any great cat hunter
Speaker 1: or anything. But I can give you one example that
Speaker 1: I learned on this study watching the cougar. And uh,
Speaker 1: it was actually the first, the very first time we
Speaker 1: had the garment collar on. We're all nervous, is it
Speaker 1: gonna turn on? Is it gonna work? And I didn't
Speaker 1: have my dogs in there, and so and this this
Speaker 1: cat had a um some younger ones, so we didn't
Speaker 1: want to run really experienced dogs. And so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: you know. But anyways, so we go in and we
Speaker 1: do the study, it moves out, it's time to call
Speaker 1: the dogs in and we're watching the cougar on the GPS,
Speaker 1: which is the first time in my knowledge ever has
Speaker 1: happened where we're watching, yeah, watching the GPS out of
Speaker 1: cougar live. And uh so the dogs come in and
Speaker 1: we're on the tracks on the snow and see that
Speaker 1: the dogs get there, and so we can tell where
Speaker 1: the cougar is and the dogs are at the same time.
Speaker 1: And that cougar went down and it hung agree and
Speaker 1: went up this little drainage and then it went up
Speaker 1: and it turned around and it backtracked fifty six yards.
Speaker 1: And this is before it was jumped. Like if I
Speaker 1: would have watched this from just the dog portion of it,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, they jumped it right there, like
Speaker 1: before the cougar could hear the dogs. It already did
Speaker 1: a ninety degree turn. It went out, it turned back,
Speaker 1: and it came up, and you know, it was off
Speaker 1: forty yards either in a tree or sitting I don't know,
Speaker 1: on a rock looking over. And so I mean, at
Speaker 1: that point when I seen this, the dogs had not
Speaker 1: even jumped the cougar, and I just I looked at
Speaker 1: Bart and I go, I'm glad, I don't got my
Speaker 1: dogs in that's race, And I was like, oh, he
Speaker 1: walked past like he was he was gonna go bed
Speaker 1: down over in this one spot. And he walked past
Speaker 1: where he went to bed turned around back. He did
Speaker 1: a ninety degree turn, first went up a couple hundred yards,
Speaker 1: and he wasn't running, I mean, he was you know, walking,
Speaker 1: and he was you know, evading. But then he turned
Speaker 1: around like if you would have seen it, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: he tapped that tree, you know, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: so he and he came back on his backtrack for
Speaker 1: yards and then jumped off the side and was up
Speaker 1: somewhere like that, you know or something. And this was
Speaker 1: before the dogs had even put pressure on them, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, There was no they were barking,
Speaker 1: but like they're still trailing, were still trailing. There was
Speaker 1: there was no pressure on that cat to tree. I mean,
Speaker 1: there was no what what I would think of it
Speaker 1: would take to tree a cougar. It was just that
Speaker 1: pressure wasn't there. And if I had just watched it
Speaker 1: on the garment from the dogs, it would have looked
Speaker 1: like a whole different story, like the fact that did
Speaker 1: all that stuff before there was a dog to trick,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it was it was like I said,
Speaker 1: are you saying that is building a case for that
Speaker 1: animal to preconceived strategy for what to do when it
Speaker 1: was being pursued. I don't think. So it wasn't pursued.
Speaker 1: I mean, it barely heard dogs bark. Do you just
Speaker 1: think it was just doing what a cougar does? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so the dogs went up there and they hit
Speaker 1: that tree and started training. So one of the guys
Speaker 1: had to run down there, and you know, we thought, well,
Speaker 1: maybe there's a kitten there, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like we and we're you know, we're up on top
Speaker 1: and we're like that cougar sixty yards from me off
Speaker 1: to you know, northeast, and and so he had to
Speaker 1: go down and he's like, there's no cougar. There's no
Speaker 1: cat here. We don't know if it was a female
Speaker 1: or what. But so what did that cougar do entirely
Speaker 1: we can't well, we only see the location, so we
Speaker 1: don't know if climb jumped up, we don't know. And
Speaker 1: it was young dogs, so it wasn't really experienced dogs.
Speaker 1: But it just it opened my eyes that it was
Speaker 1: like I would have told that story way different if
Speaker 1: I had not seen what the cougar did before the dogs,
Speaker 1: and so much speculation inside of a lot, like none
Speaker 1: of us know what happens between here you go dogs
Speaker 1: and getting to them. That's isn't that the mystery of it? Though?
Speaker 1: I mean like that to me is it'side of hunting.
Speaker 1: It's it's one of the last like frontiers that yeah,
Speaker 1: we use technology to help us, but still it's like
Speaker 1: there's there's so many calculatable unknowns and variables and things
Speaker 1: you cannot see another understand predict. Another good example would
Speaker 1: be before GPS, you had talentry and you'd be hunting
Speaker 1: in a place like this and and uh, down one
Speaker 1: of my hunting buddies, Don Gilbert, he would say, back
Speaker 1: in the day, you'd hear this race and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're making loops back there, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't on your in your mind, you hear
Speaker 1: the dogs go out and then they come back, and
Speaker 1: then they go out and they come back, and so
Speaker 1: you're you're audibly hearing what your mind's painting a picture
Speaker 1: of before you have the GPS. It's making loops, it's
Speaker 1: coming in in sound and out of sound. Well, it
Speaker 1: was just going and draws. It was going down in
Speaker 1: the goalies and come back out of a goalie, so
Speaker 1: it wasn't looping. So those dogs were just going out
Speaker 1: of sound because they're going to the creek, you know,
Speaker 1: and so sometimes so I'm not saying that they don't.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I don't know that I've got it
Speaker 1: figured out to say that they do. Yeah, Wow, that's
Speaker 1: pretty incredible. What do you think he's fascinating as an
Speaker 1: animal trick a hound or is he just doing what
Speaker 1: he does and he just gets away with it. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, the most interesting thing I saw
Speaker 1: when we used to run hogs with dogs was a
Speaker 1: group of we had a big patch of switch cane
Speaker 1: and the dogs went in there and all these hogs
Speaker 1: shot out one side and we were just waiting and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, this big boar hal came out
Speaker 1: the other side. I mean, that was the most the
Speaker 1: thing I saw that made me wonder. It's like it
Speaker 1: might be might have been calculated, or he might have
Speaker 1: just been lazy and just like I'm big bad, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to move because he was like the biggest
Speaker 1: board hogs the dogs left out with all the that's
Speaker 1: classic mature male of any species, just or a fox
Speaker 1: running back through your dogs, and so that happens. H
Speaker 1: let's say bull elk. I've heard a lot you know,
Speaker 1: bull el sneaking off, you know, with the cows. You know,
Speaker 1: my old man used to say that all the cows
Speaker 1: are run. The cows off this way and he tiptoe
Speaker 1: around them that way. I'm not a huge there's much
Speaker 1: better elk hunters than I am. But I mean, how
Speaker 1: do you explain that? I don't know. Yeah, well it's
Speaker 1: pretty pretty fascinating stuff. And you know, I've heard people
Speaker 1: say houndsmen say that uh technology garments being able to
Speaker 1: track dogs has also told a whole different story of
Speaker 1: what's happening with dogs. I mean, like, I think there's
Speaker 1: so many human biases involved in dealing with dogs. Like
Speaker 1: even from the point if if you've got five dogs,
Speaker 1: there's one that you like for no good reason. I mean,
Speaker 1: like if if we were just unbiased and we're like,
Speaker 1: which one catches game? Like, you know, some of them
Speaker 1: are getting credit for something else, whether it's it's a
Speaker 1: blue tick and you grew up with blue ticks and
Speaker 1: so you like blue ticks, or whether it's you like
Speaker 1: the way that one looks, or whether it's you like
Speaker 1: the way that one barks, or whether it's you like
Speaker 1: that one because you got it from some well known
Speaker 1: breeder and you think it's gonna be awesome, but really
Speaker 1: the dog you got from the pound is better. Like
Speaker 1: so when you turn those dogs loose and they leave
Speaker 1: your site and you hear a race, like you kind
Speaker 1: of projecting a lot of times with big game hunting,
Speaker 1: the race might even leave you're hearing, and so you
Speaker 1: just get to a tree and all the dogs are there.
Speaker 1: But I've heard people stay with garments. You you know,
Speaker 1: what's happening a whole lot more who's in the lead,
Speaker 1: who's falling out? And for people that are just you know,
Speaker 1: and I'm new really to the big game world. I
Speaker 1: mean just in the last seven years, I guess. But like,
Speaker 1: these races are so long that you might have five dogs,
Speaker 1: and it's not like five dogs stay together in a line,
Speaker 1: you know, nose on tail chasing this animal. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, one dog catches a break with the wind
Speaker 1: and maybe gets ahead, and another one makes a lose
Speaker 1: for whatever reason and gets hung up on a part
Speaker 1: of the track and so your pack can get spread out.
Speaker 1: And now you don't want that to happen. I mean
Speaker 1: you you would hope your pack would stay together. But
Speaker 1: and so over time you begin to see which dogs
Speaker 1: really have a knack for staying in front of the pack,
Speaker 1: for really doing the work out there. And uh yeah,
Speaker 1: So this technology is showing showing people that it's changed
Speaker 1: a lot, That's what I know. I've talked with a
Speaker 1: lot of people. I mean, it's changed down to the
Speaker 1: type of dogs you can get away with hunting now,
Speaker 1: you know, like shoot, six seven years ago, you know,
Speaker 1: or well it's been longer than that now. But before Garmen,
Speaker 1: you know, if you didn't have a dog that a
Speaker 1: tree and state treed, you didn't have anything worth feeding.
Speaker 1: You know, it had to stay there with the meat
Speaker 1: and you had to get to it. Where Now I mean,
Speaker 1: we can get away with running some dogs that are
Speaker 1: light on the tree or or quiet on track because
Speaker 1: you can still keep track of them. So I think
Speaker 1: it's changed a lot. Yeah, for the better. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think that's a catch twenty or two. I think
Speaker 1: it's respond visible for a lot of judgment on dogs.
Speaker 1: I think he used to, you know, a dog get
Speaker 1: away with a lot more than now. Um. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like having a GPS on your truck and your
Speaker 1: boss is tracking you, you know. I think I think
Speaker 1: it's definitely changed. Well, I guess we need to ask.
Speaker 1: I'll not cut his from for sure. Body has a
Speaker 1: GPS on. There's a j there's a GPS on, Jason.
Speaker 1: I got an ankle, keep it tucked in there? Uh
Speaker 1: is implant? Um? I don't know. The one good thing
Speaker 1: that I can say is um. And I always joke,
Speaker 1: I say, I may not want to go where that
Speaker 1: dog is, but I know where I need to go,
Speaker 1: like I may not. You know, back in the day,
Speaker 1: you look at some of this country and it's like
Speaker 1: you don't you can't hear the dog. You can't. You know,
Speaker 1: you get a signal and a signal in some of
Speaker 1: this country. You can get a signally where you wanted
Speaker 1: in this ground. If it was dog in the bottom
Speaker 1: of that hole right there we're looking at. I mean
Speaker 1: I'd be driving over here and let me go over there,
Speaker 1: and I'd spend two hours, three hours trying to triangulate
Speaker 1: where that dog is. That maybe I could just hear
Speaker 1: the echo and I could. I know they're treated there,
Speaker 1: but I can't figure it out. I may not want
Speaker 1: to go down that, but I know where my dogs
Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, I'll go I'll
Speaker 1: go get them, you know. And so I haven't. I
Speaker 1: haven't left the dog overnight. Um, since I've had Karmen,
Speaker 1: like I've I've spent many nights sleeping on a little
Speaker 1: road like this trying to figure out how you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly where they are, and in the dark,
Speaker 1: it's really hard to figure out where to go into them. Um,
Speaker 1: and I just don't. I don't have to worry about
Speaker 1: that and go get them. Well, and it makes that
Speaker 1: the guys with limited hunting opportunity, I think it makes
Speaker 1: it a lot easier. Like week night hunts. I can
Speaker 1: go out on a Tuesday night, you go hunt, and
Speaker 1: when I'm ready to go home, we go home. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, used to you turn a dog loose and
Speaker 1: if they didn't bark, you know, you'd think the track
Speaker 1: was overeat holler them out. But now you can see
Speaker 1: they're still working something. And you know, I I use
Speaker 1: that as a tool, like for these young dogs I'm
Speaker 1: hunting right now. I've been able to hunt them kind
Speaker 1: of alone, away from my hunting partner and be able
Speaker 1: to watch them on that not making a peep, but
Speaker 1: I'm watching them work that track and and know that
Speaker 1: at least they're doing something. They're not wandering around and
Speaker 1: calling them out. Yeah, what kind of dogs do you have?
Speaker 1: Mainly like running walker crosses, tree dogs, running dog crosses. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what what kind of dogs do you have? Buddy? Uh? MutS?
Speaker 1: I mean I got a little bit of everything, red
Speaker 1: white and they don't have a plot. Yeah, red white
Speaker 1: and blue, that's what I was like. I got two
Speaker 1: blue dogs literally red white and but I thought that
Speaker 1: was clever. It's got a walker's red bones, blue ticks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not a walk I mean it probably comes from walkers.
Speaker 1: It comes from like a desert dog kind of reading. So,
Speaker 1: but it looks red and white and black. And then uh,
Speaker 1: I got a little black and it's a black and
Speaker 1: tan looking dog that comes out of some red dogs.
Speaker 1: So can I can I describe your living room to
Speaker 1: the to the crowd here? So you walk into Buddy's
Speaker 1: house and it's a it's a new, nice home and
Speaker 1: there's what appears to be like a built in long
Speaker 1: cabinet over right in the middle of the living room.
Speaker 1: And I thought it was just like a built in
Speaker 1: just like it looked not it looked like a professionally,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like just yeah, it's a dog kennel.
Speaker 1: There are five or five hole dog kennel. Really classed up,
Speaker 1: I mean, looks great. And uh so he lets his
Speaker 1: dogs runs. Got a big fenced in area behind his house,
Speaker 1: so the dogs are running out there during the day
Speaker 1: and then at night you bring all the hounds right
Speaker 1: into the living room and candle him up. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that kind of just started recently because we had to
Speaker 1: turn down our our house to build the new one.
Speaker 1: We were going to do a remodel, and it's it's
Speaker 1: like a four year process and finally we're like, we
Speaker 1: just gotta we start over. So we bulldozed it down,
Speaker 1: and we bulldozed the barn down where I kept all
Speaker 1: my kennels, and so with the county and not in
Speaker 1: the permit process, and there's just I mean, it's been
Speaker 1: headache after headache. We were like, well, so we had
Speaker 1: these wire crates in there, and uh I was on
Speaker 1: Facebook and some local Gal just had this one little
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's I wouldn't say it's like well built,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like you when I it's like,
Speaker 1: I won't say it's not Pallette built. You know, it's
Speaker 1: not like Pallett would. But it's just a thin would
Speaker 1: you know? She's not a uh look you know what.
Speaker 1: It looks nice. It's a little bit lighter weight than
Speaker 1: I mean I would. I didn't even notice when I
Speaker 1: walked in the house. I was just like, it just
Speaker 1: it fits the color of the cabinet. Like I didn't
Speaker 1: even notice until Colby said, look at this and I
Speaker 1: looked down and I just took me a few minutes.
Speaker 1: I was like, this is a dog kennel. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: seen it on Facebook. And this Gal, she she didn't
Speaker 1: make him by five, but I called her and she's like,
Speaker 1: how long would I do? Like that? What is that think?
Speaker 1: It's gone? Yeah? Yeah, well I think that that shows
Speaker 1: you how dedicated you are to your dogs. Like my
Speaker 1: wife and my wife and that's my wife. Your wife
Speaker 1: likes dogs, Yeah, she she likes um. She likes to
Speaker 1: take care of him. She likes the dogs as dogs.
Speaker 1: I like them too, but um, she really enjoys, like
Speaker 1: I've given up. They come on the couch now, and
Speaker 1: I mean I'm kind of giving up. Yeah. Now, do
Speaker 1: your dogs live like normal dogs? Outside like normal dogs? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Mine are generally kennelled. That got you know my old
Speaker 1: blue tick Henry. He's in the house with us now
Speaker 1: and as they retire, we usually move them in. But
Speaker 1: for the most part, I got a big it's like
Speaker 1: a thirty six ft long metal car port, so we
Speaker 1: do indoor runs there and then we're in the process
Speaker 1: of fencing off a big turnout right now, Hey, do
Speaker 1: you mind sharing your your strategy about cleaning dog pans?
Speaker 1: It's really it worked out pretty good. Well, so my
Speaker 1: oldest son calling, he he wants to be with dad
Speaker 1: all the time. He's four, and uh so he he
Speaker 1: was wanting it to be a cowboy. You know that.
Speaker 1: I think everybody wants to be a cowboy at some point.
Speaker 1: And you know, I was just kind of goofing off
Speaker 1: one day and I said, oh, yeah, that's cowboy work.
Speaker 1: Well his ears perked up, and he thought, cleaning dog
Speaker 1: poops cowboy work. So I want to do some of that.
Speaker 1: And he says, hey, Dad, you think I could clean
Speaker 1: some dog poop. I thought for a second, I said,
Speaker 1: you know, but I don't think you're quite ready. And
Speaker 1: that's where it started. At that point, I didn't know
Speaker 1: how long it was going to go on, but I
Speaker 1: mean so, I mean literally this ended up being over
Speaker 1: the course of probably two months. Oh I'm milky, because
Speaker 1: every time I told him he couldn't, he wanted it.
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say to you now, but
Speaker 1: you're a grown man. Totally manipulated you for work. So
Speaker 1: for for like two months, and my wife thought I
Speaker 1: was crazy. She's like, that's really working though, And you know,
Speaker 1: by the end of it, I said, but I think
Speaker 1: you're ready. You know, if you want to try, you
Speaker 1: can clean one kennel, pick a dog. So he started
Speaker 1: with one kennel and from that point on it was,
Speaker 1: you know, that's cowboy work. I want that. Do you
Speaker 1: think I can do all the dogs today? That next
Speaker 1: it worked. I don't think I didn't file that one
Speaker 1: away for or something like my kids, Uh, that's not
Speaker 1: gonna work anymore. That was that was an investment for
Speaker 1: the long game, you know it was. It worked. It's
Speaker 1: all you out there listening. You get it done. A book.
Speaker 1: We could sell that. We should We should have been
Speaker 1: that for free. Yeah, we're gonna make this a pay
Speaker 1: for podcast. That's one you gotta pay for. I told
Speaker 1: Buddy about it. I remember he just kind of looked
Speaker 1: at me like that. He loves those dogs, you know.
Speaker 1: And but that's his only real interaction with him right
Speaker 1: now because he's so young and I hunt late at night.
Speaker 1: Is that's his tie to the dogs now. So he
Speaker 1: wants to do it. He wants to feed him, he
Speaker 1: wants to clean him. So yeah, yeah, it worked out.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Hopefully long term, that's awesome. Buddyah, I've got it.
Speaker 1: I've got a question for it. So, so w W
Speaker 1: Hounds Supply W Hunting Supply is a hound supply company.
Speaker 1: You gotta sell garments, just sell all types of hound
Speaker 1: related stuff. But really what and we have a pretty
Speaker 1: long history together, um, just knowledge of each other's businesses
Speaker 1: and stuff. And uh, what I would say that you
Speaker 1: are known for is not just selling products, but your
Speaker 1: stance with fighting for hound related issues in the country.
Speaker 1: I mean, like that's I would say, that's a part
Speaker 1: of your brand. Yeah yeah, Um, and it roots from
Speaker 1: like Oregon because that's kind of the guys like, so
Speaker 1: that's my question, where that Where did that come from? Yeah,
Speaker 1: like we were talking earlier. Um, one of the first
Speaker 1: guys that kind of hunted with that was I would
Speaker 1: say a mentor was Rod Claweinter and he was president
Speaker 1: of the Organized Hound Association. So I kind of got
Speaker 1: invited to one of their banquet dinners and and just
Speaker 1: seeing the fundraising and um, and so that kind of
Speaker 1: because where it started. Before I had I think I
Speaker 1: might have done stickers, you know, I don't know what.
Speaker 1: I didn't do much, but um, and and then I
Speaker 1: did this little T shirt thing, you know, and and
Speaker 1: it was just natural I was going to go to
Speaker 1: that convention anyways, and so UM, they're like, oh, bring
Speaker 1: bring some shirts. So we set up a little booth
Speaker 1: or whatever. And so that's kind of one of the
Speaker 1: connections I had to meet a lot of houndsman was
Speaker 1: through that. The other thing was Big Game Hounsman. It
Speaker 1: was a website which introduced me on a national level,
Speaker 1: you know, like before this was before Facebook days. So
Speaker 1: those are the two things that really you know, we're
Speaker 1: catalyst in the beginning was organized far into Association and
Speaker 1: then Big amehouncement. And then um, you know, all all
Speaker 1: those hound organizations they're trying to raise money, you know,
Speaker 1: they they got to raise money to fight, to keep hunting.
Speaker 1: And so when they'd asked for donations, I mean, we
Speaker 1: tried to do what we could, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: and and and probably gave more than maybe we could afford,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean I don't in the early days,
Speaker 1: but um, it just worked for us, you know, they
Speaker 1: and they they took care of us. You know, there
Speaker 1: their groups and their membership. It was, um, it's humbling,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like it was just like, hey,
Speaker 1: they needed somebody. And I always said, if if what
Speaker 1: we do makes the other guys jump in and do
Speaker 1: more than I'm okay with that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like I we don't got to be the only one,
Speaker 1: you know, except for Jason. But that's one thing. Even
Speaker 1: before I was at double and Buddy and I were
Speaker 1: quote unquote competition, it was so you had a hound
Speaker 1: supply company yourself several years ago. Yeah, I'm in with
Speaker 1: w It will be four years in February, I think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: in February. Isn't this a government monopoly? It's just like
Speaker 1: this is like Facebook buying Instagram. Yeah, well yeah, right.
Speaker 1: But that's one thing I always said, you know, is
Speaker 1: whether you like him or don't, I'd say, you know,
Speaker 1: that guy has done more for our sport than about
Speaker 1: anybody I can think of, because it was always you know,
Speaker 1: donations here and there. When I walked into an event,
Speaker 1: I'm like, God, damn it, there's double you. We used
Speaker 1: to call it double up Chuck, Chuck. That was my point.
Speaker 1: And Buddy's the wrong person to ask about himself, because
Speaker 1: what do you hear him talking about himself is just like, well,
Speaker 1: we made some shirts and gave away some money. This guy, yeah,
Speaker 1: this w and Buddy have done a ton for the
Speaker 1: hound community and um yeah, and and they have. And
Speaker 1: I think it's just yeah, from a love of of
Speaker 1: hound hunting and and uh and seeing value inside this sport.
Speaker 1: It's seeing value inside of what we're doing at all levels.
Speaker 1: I mean from wildlife management to the dogs, to the family,
Speaker 1: to the economics of having housman on the landscape, to
Speaker 1: the rights and freedom that we should have. And there's
Speaker 1: no logical reason why it should be taken away from us, like,
Speaker 1: but we're seeing it all over the kind so it's
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, anybody who's listening to this podcast
Speaker 1: and you guys w podcast or I mean it's like
Speaker 1: the hound world in the broad scheme of North American
Speaker 1: hunting is massively underteck. And so it that that creates
Speaker 1: advocates that have to step up. And as we know,
Speaker 1: fights these days aren't fought with sticks and stones. It's
Speaker 1: fought with money, money and knowledge and influence. And that's
Speaker 1: and and you know, we y'all have worked hard for
Speaker 1: with funding some of these organizations and stuff, but also
Speaker 1: the knowledge sector of it, just like just informing people
Speaker 1: about our lifestyle, building a community like you know, big
Speaker 1: game housing website, um and uh and even just kind
Speaker 1: of the culture that WUS helped build. I think it, uh.
Speaker 1: I think it builds a a culture that people want
Speaker 1: to be a part of. They're just like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean running is cool, running hounds is good for everything
Speaker 1: involved in this. This isn't a good American thing to do. Um. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I think y'all played a big part in that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think some of that UM when I think back,
Speaker 1: like and you kind of we were talking about this
Speaker 1: in the truck where you know, you could have been
Speaker 1: a deer hunter. You're white tail fanatic, but you would
Speaker 1: have been lost in a sea of other hunters. So
Speaker 1: you're focusing on bears. Was beneficial for you and for
Speaker 1: US hounds was what was our niche and that we
Speaker 1: because I was an elk hunter as a deer hunter,
Speaker 1: and I tried to make elk decails and elk shirts.
Speaker 1: It didn't work out, you know, I mean there's five
Speaker 1: billion other people do the same thing. And so when
Speaker 1: you just find that niche that you fit in, you
Speaker 1: kind of, um, you resonate, is what the best I
Speaker 1: can describe it is as your you can you can.
Speaker 1: I wan't say you worked half as much he's works.
Speaker 1: Was hard, but you see twice the reward when you
Speaker 1: just focus such a small percentage. I mean hound hunters
Speaker 1: in general, Like you look at the hunting population of
Speaker 1: the US, I mean we're talking small. What is it
Speaker 1: like seven identify less than that done? I think I
Speaker 1: think right now we're like four point five percent of
Speaker 1: the US posse hunters. A lot of it is because
Speaker 1: the US population has increased so much in the last
Speaker 1: thirty years, But you look at hound hunters beyond that,
Speaker 1: I mean we're talking fractions of a percent, so where
Speaker 1: we are the minority. But yeah, there's so much that
Speaker 1: can be brought to the table as far as game
Speaker 1: management and and things like that that it's a viable tool.
Speaker 1: It's hard to have that resonate, you know, So any
Speaker 1: chance that you have to do that and make an impact,
Speaker 1: I think you just you really got to double down
Speaker 1: on it. Well, how how have y'all built that? Buddy? Built?
Speaker 1: Just just a community of dedicated people, because s okay,
Speaker 1: you've built a brand. And you know, part of my
Speaker 1: interest in talking to you, honestly is like almost a
Speaker 1: business interest, just like I like, I like brands and
Speaker 1: and truthfully everybody does. People interact with brands in different ways.
Speaker 1: Some people are partakers of brands, and you know that,
Speaker 1: you know they like, I mean, everybody wears some logo
Speaker 1: on their shirt that they identify with that they're like,
Speaker 1: this is this I can identify with this brand. I
Speaker 1: want to represent this brand. I want my life to
Speaker 1: kind of shadow what's inside of that. So you know,
Speaker 1: how do you uh, yeah, how do you how do
Speaker 1: you do that inside the hound community? Um? And I
Speaker 1: mean like by accident, like honestly, so so double the word.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know what that means, but
Speaker 1: I was about to ask you gotta tell us what
Speaker 1: that means. So my last name is the brand is
Speaker 1: tough because we don't get it. Yeah. So my last
Speaker 1: name was Woodberry, and so it was you want. I
Speaker 1: started as double you graphics, you know, and And honestly,
Speaker 1: I just didn't want to be at the end of yeah,
Speaker 1: the letter don people can't see no. Yeah, just like
Speaker 1: like I can't do my alphabet but you know, too long.
Speaker 1: But to get down to the you know, the end,
Speaker 1: we go backwards from Z and we can do backwards,
Speaker 1: you hit the W. My last name was Woodburry and
Speaker 1: and I honestly, I think I talked about some other podcast,
Speaker 1: but I didn't want to be in the end of
Speaker 1: the Yellow Pages, you know. I don't want to be
Speaker 1: crushed for somebody to triple a. And honestly that was
Speaker 1: that was always it was triple A know graphics, double
Speaker 1: you graphics are like well and so it just kind
Speaker 1: of I was like, oh, the word double you and
Speaker 1: and uh so Woodburry Woodbury, double you W. That was
Speaker 1: that was entirely the way it spelled is double like
Speaker 1: to deal you bil you as in the letter that
Speaker 1: was so I could get it wouldn't be the first
Speaker 1: and because nobody goes by the first in the telling
Speaker 1: me a little bit ago about how he understands electronics
Speaker 1: and actually has a lot of background and electronics and
Speaker 1: how sometimes he solves a problem from the wrong side
Speaker 1: so people can't follow him. So I was looking at
Speaker 1: the Yellow Pages and like, well, I want to be
Speaker 1: right there, and I had to find a letter that
Speaker 1: fit the get the answer, And so that's that's kind
Speaker 1: of what I My first logo had a W and
Speaker 1: I mean it actually was a W, and it was
Speaker 1: camout out and it was crappy is I'll get out?
Speaker 1: But and then it was like like I always say,
Speaker 1: like you do something right and it's kind of like
Speaker 1: getting petted. You're like, oh that that felt good, Let's
Speaker 1: do that again, and so purely accident, like honestly, and
Speaker 1: then I started doing it intentional, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like there was a moment where I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is what branding. That's the stick, right, What was
Speaker 1: the first thing that made you think it was working? Um,
Speaker 1: seeing a shirt from a distance, and that's the other
Speaker 1: a hooter shirt or that's a double U shirt. You
Speaker 1: don't cut that out of your podcast from Northwood what
Speaker 1: we were watching at your place last time. I was
Speaker 1: up here Northwoods Law and Laura like we were having
Speaker 1: a regular conversation and we hear Laura like, where's the
Speaker 1: remote and she pauses it and backs it up and
Speaker 1: she says that kid's got our shirt on. And it's
Speaker 1: like just this much, I mean just like a little
Speaker 1: section of this shirt and she's like, that's our shirt.
Speaker 1: We ended up tracking the kid down thanks to the
Speaker 1: Facebook and sent him some new gear. Yeah. So it
Speaker 1: was honestly, um, just this is the shirt I'm wearing.
Speaker 1: But it was just the bold orange. It was identifiable
Speaker 1: from a distance. When it started to click for me,
Speaker 1: that was like okay, like I can that's that's our shirt,
Speaker 1: Like you can just see it. And now we're trying
Speaker 1: to separate off a little bit, so we um, like
Speaker 1: you see Jason shirt. You know he's got the two.
Speaker 1: It's hidden because not all hound guys want to be pal,
Speaker 1: you know, So so we're trying to feel that out
Speaker 1: to to subdue it a little bit. And so now
Speaker 1: we we've really focused on the logo, which is the
Speaker 1: two dogs running, you know what I mean? So um,
Speaker 1: because you know, we just don't want to have to
Speaker 1: have orange everywhere, you know, and so but it's tough.
Speaker 1: But that was how it started. Deeper than that though,
Speaker 1: is that so you had a good logo, which is
Speaker 1: a part of Brandy, but you built you built a
Speaker 1: culture that people I wanted to get behind. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: how did you do that? Buddy? Um? By accident? I
Speaker 1: was way before that. I had to fight against the
Speaker 1: against the current. You were going on forums with all
Speaker 1: these uh you know, fake fake names like no. That
Speaker 1: was that by the time James man GUISTI called an
Speaker 1: ordered something or put an order in and my wife
Speaker 1: and I are like, that's buddy's buddy, his money is good,
Speaker 1: send it. Well we would. I mean like we were
Speaker 1: fanatical about making sure that we were I don't want
Speaker 1: to say the best, but like if if there was
Speaker 1: another product out there, we wanted it to test it.
Speaker 1: You know it was at work. Was it better? Do
Speaker 1: we need to get it? Um? And that's for every
Speaker 1: GPS system that comes out, every accessory for you know,
Speaker 1: Garman and I still like if I see something like god,
Speaker 1: now I just called him and buy it, you know,
Speaker 1: But back then I was too afraid to call Jason's
Speaker 1: one of your your antennas to do a test on,
Speaker 1: so I don't have to call a buddy or something
Speaker 1: be like, hey, can you buy all these antennas for me? Um,
Speaker 1: there's some funny stories with that guy's cussing them out,
Speaker 1: and there's a whole another podcast on those, but just
Speaker 1: wanting um to really and and and in. The big
Speaker 1: change happened when I quit my job at Intel, and
Speaker 1: it was like I'm all in, like this is what's
Speaker 1: got to work for my family. You know, there's no
Speaker 1: other um m hmm, fourteen I think twelve or fourteen.
Speaker 1: I think I think it was fourteen. Yeah, my I know,
Speaker 1: I tell you it was after my daughter's more so
Speaker 1: nine years ago. Do you do the math? Um? She
Speaker 1: just yeah, so yeah, So two thousand twelves when I
Speaker 1: when I quit Intel and started full time at w
Speaker 1: And that was when it was not a hobby, you know,
Speaker 1: because before it was more than a hobby, but it was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: my wife would you know a lot of guys still
Speaker 1: remember you call my wife and she would ship and
Speaker 1: you know, they come by and and at that point
Speaker 1: it was like, no, we're gonna dedicate our our attention
Speaker 1: to it, and um, just focus on doing because I
Speaker 1: mean there in the beginning, you had to you had
Speaker 1: to borrow from the card. You know, you get a
Speaker 1: credit card statement or you know, you take a credit
Speaker 1: card fee, and well shoot to take two or three
Speaker 1: days to get that money in your account. And so
Speaker 1: you didn't have any money to speak of. And somebody
Speaker 1: come up called by an eighteen dog system and you're like,
Speaker 1: sure I could take that. Sorry, I'm gonna whoever about
Speaker 1: eighteen dog system Back in two thousand ten, we would
Speaker 1: have to like wait a day or two for the
Speaker 1: funds to get into the account because we couldn't afford
Speaker 1: to buy the eighteen dog system. And so we placed
Speaker 1: the order just about the time whenever their credit card
Speaker 1: would take a day. So you know, we had it
Speaker 1: figured out down to the days. Had to hold for
Speaker 1: two days or a hey and a half and then
Speaker 1: you can send the email just before they close, and
Speaker 1: so they go the next morning in the game. It
Speaker 1: was a loop and uh and then I went to
Speaker 1: PayPal and and they gave the money instantly. I mean,
Speaker 1: just like as soon as and you could get a
Speaker 1: debit card with them. Oh I was the best thing
Speaker 1: ever because I'd have the debit card. As soon as
Speaker 1: I took your money, I could place the order and
Speaker 1: so we would a lot quicker. And that's when we
Speaker 1: really started to getting known for okay, quick shipping, and
Speaker 1: and now we make it an effort to try to
Speaker 1: get everything shipped out the same day. The back orders
Speaker 1: are tough sometimes, but but if if we have an
Speaker 1: order in the system and it just comes from wanting
Speaker 1: to do the right thing, yeah, well, I think with
Speaker 1: our market, you know, hound guys in general, there's no
Speaker 1: such thing as like waiting. If they have a caller
Speaker 1: that goes bad, they need it now. So you know,
Speaker 1: that's where fast shipping and things like that, the reputation
Speaker 1: that Buddies built over the years, it's where it stands
Speaker 1: out is you know, they understand that, we understand the
Speaker 1: urgency involved in that. Yeah. Yeah, so that those are
Speaker 1: just you know, you you read a book on business
Speaker 1: sometimes and it's like do this, do that, do that,
Speaker 1: and you can read it and it's words, but then
Speaker 1: you need to really just do it. See you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like it's like you can know what
Speaker 1: to do, but sometimes doing it is a little bit
Speaker 1: harder than the tough part. What's your number one piece
Speaker 1: of advice for a business owner, buddy, not in the
Speaker 1: hound world, just a business owner, because what I've seen
Speaker 1: is you're good. You're a good business owner. I don't know, arepreneur? Well,
Speaker 1: you're right, I take it behind me. That's that's the
Speaker 1: misconception is that people think they see somebody that's been
Speaker 1: successful and they're like, well, of course they were successful.
Speaker 1: That's you know. Then the example I use all the time,
Speaker 1: of course Lebron James is the best athlete in the world.
Speaker 1: He's Lebron James. Well he wasn't always Lebron James like
Speaker 1: he you know, he wasn't. He wasn't born that way.
Speaker 1: He worked his tail off and the audi And he's
Speaker 1: maybe a bad example because he did go pro straight
Speaker 1: from high school. He was on the cover Sports illustraight seventeen, okay,
Speaker 1: and he's thirty nine years old his name and he's
Speaker 1: still giving us what we want. There's no fans in
Speaker 1: the NBA. Wow, we just took a side to him.
Speaker 1: You're going to answer, and I don't hear Jason's but um,
Speaker 1: think about it think it's I think that number one thing.
Speaker 1: You can't be afraid of his failure because I'm not
Speaker 1: afraid to fail. Like Jason will come up with, you know,
Speaker 1: an idea, and sometimes I said that I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: that or whatever, um, and other times I'm like, let's
Speaker 1: try it. I don't think it's gonna work, you know,
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you I don't think it's not afraid
Speaker 1: to say, I don't think this is gonna work, but
Speaker 1: but let's try it. We don't know. I mean, like
Speaker 1: I said, I I uh, I'm not afraid to to
Speaker 1: just try something. And then you know, I don't fully
Speaker 1: commit until I kind of see the it's not a
Speaker 1: dead end, you know. But I think sometimes people I know,
Speaker 1: for me, I would have never grown if I didn't
Speaker 1: leave Intel, you know what I mean, Like if I
Speaker 1: would have never jumped. And I don't know it's Harvey, Harvey,
Speaker 1: somebody I don't know. Somebody was talking about jumping. There's
Speaker 1: some YouTube video bell you gotta jump. And I really
Speaker 1: resonate with that because that was what it took for me,
Speaker 1: was I was scared. I had two kids, no health insurance,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like there was a lot
Speaker 1: to leave Intel, which I was comfortable. You know, I
Speaker 1: had a decent job. I would not be where I
Speaker 1: am now, but you know, I I was. They weren't
Speaker 1: gonna fire me. I didn't have to. I would take
Speaker 1: a lot to screw up, but Intel to get fired,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, so I jumped. I mean it
Speaker 1: was my wife pushed me, kind pushed you over the
Speaker 1: either jump or quit. But and uh and so that
Speaker 1: was the the scariest part of my whole ordeal was
Speaker 1: once I jumped, I was committed and I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, you better swim, I mean you you yeah,
Speaker 1: And when I did have a choice, it was easy
Speaker 1: to just like, oh yeah, whatever. So so that I'm
Speaker 1: not telling people to jump until you're ready to jump,
Speaker 1: but you you won't be successful if you don't jump,
Speaker 1: you know. So is when acquired Bare Honey Magazine, which
Speaker 1: was a big jump all in its own, and the
Speaker 1: way that it worked with me was this opportunity presented itself.
Speaker 1: And the way that things have worked in my life
Speaker 1: a lot of times with bigger moves have been like
Speaker 1: they've just been almost such no brainers to me and
Speaker 1: to my wife too, that that's a big factor. If
Speaker 1: if we're both in agreement about it, then we can
Speaker 1: move forward with confidence. But I remember I was gonna
Speaker 1: quit the business that I owned in landscape business. Yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty much. I was doing landscaping to basically prop up
Speaker 1: my ability to hunt and freelance right and run a
Speaker 1: nonprofit hunting conservation organization in Arkansas. But what I was
Speaker 1: doing for a living was just working. Um And uh,
Speaker 1: it wasn't until I told somebody over the phone what
Speaker 1: I was doing. I was like, yeah, I'm I want
Speaker 1: to be landscaping next month. I'm I'm I'm I've got
Speaker 1: a magazine. I'm taking over magazine. Uh, YadA, YadA, this, this, this,
Speaker 1: And he was like, wow, that's pretty risky, Clay, And
Speaker 1: I was like, you think so? And I didn't think that,
Speaker 1: I mean for real. And it was a guy I
Speaker 1: really respected. He was older than me and he was
Speaker 1: a good businessman himself, and he was like the first
Speaker 1: time that it ever occurred to me that what I
Speaker 1: was doing people, And I still don't think it was
Speaker 1: I still don't think it was risky, but people would
Speaker 1: have perceived it as risky, and obviously it was. It
Speaker 1: was risky, just with with everything. I had no backup plan,
Speaker 1: I had no health insurance, I had no I mean,
Speaker 1: but it's but the way that I've done a lot
Speaker 1: of things in business is that if you're trying to
Speaker 1: guard and protect something, you're probably never gonna like move forward.
Speaker 1: It's like, I had nothing to lose, And I'm not
Speaker 1: advising people to be reckless because I had. I feel
Speaker 1: like I had a lot of direction. I mean, it
Speaker 1: was it was things that I had a lot of
Speaker 1: input from influential people in my life that was helping
Speaker 1: me with It's just everything was right for it to work.
Speaker 1: But but anyway, just you know, I didn't I didn't
Speaker 1: have anything to lose. And that's the way I feel
Speaker 1: right now with like business and stuff. It's like the
Speaker 1: only way to grow is to not be afraid to
Speaker 1: lose what you've got, if you can say it that way.
Speaker 1: Take a take a not a risk, but you know
Speaker 1: you just calculated risk. Yeah, yeah, you gotta look at it.
Speaker 1: And it gets harder sometimes because in the beginning it
Speaker 1: was shoot, it was easy, um two to go from
Speaker 1: a small business to a little bit bigger business. You know,
Speaker 1: like I always say, you know, um to go from
Speaker 1: two thousand dollars a month in in receipts to fourth thousand.
Speaker 1: Well your mind, you know what I mean. Like and
Speaker 1: the bigger it gets, um the heart you just don't
Speaker 1: double that anymore, you know, I mean, now you're taking
Speaker 1: Now we gotta grab Oh we can get five or
Speaker 1: eight percent growth, you know, I mean like the number,
Speaker 1: it's it's a bigger number. But back in the day,
Speaker 1: it was like, man, we grew year over the year
Speaker 1: for a couple of years, and I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: things are just taken off. And uh, now with it's
Speaker 1: just gotten to a bigger scale that sometimes I'm over
Speaker 1: my head. I'm I'm literally in over my head that
Speaker 1: I wish I had taken a different college class. I
Speaker 1: wish I didn't have an electronics degree a business degree. Well, um,
Speaker 1: let's let's I want to jump back into hounds, buddy,
Speaker 1: what would be your l primo hound hunt? If you
Speaker 1: could do anything in the country speechless? Oh, man, I
Speaker 1: be thinking about it, Jason, it's coming. That's Bobcat. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm doing September. I want to be That's what
Speaker 1: I want to do. Like honestly, I tell, I tell
Speaker 1: I don't know if I told Jason, I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: I have the whole shop is at some point I'm not.
Speaker 1: I don't want to. I never built W I keep
Speaker 1: talking about W right now. It might plug it myself enough.
Speaker 1: I'm not building this to be a millionaire. I'm building
Speaker 1: this so I can have some gas. But I need
Speaker 1: to go up in the woods and go bobcat. That's
Speaker 1: why I work here, and that's yeah. I mean if
Speaker 1: I was, are we talking with our own dogs? Know what?
Speaker 1: Just like if you just anything, like you could say, man,
Speaker 1: I wish I had a pack of hounds and lived
Speaker 1: in none of it and could chase polar bears. I
Speaker 1: honestly I would love to go back and get at
Speaker 1: a nice bear harvest and nice bear with my own hounds,
Speaker 1: because when we lost all of our hunting in California
Speaker 1: because I had got into hounds after we we banned
Speaker 1: it here in Oregon. And then I say, here, I'm
Speaker 1: sitting in Washington and I was not. I promised you
Speaker 1: that it was. I don't know if you caught that clay.
Speaker 1: But this is why Jason is good, because he's like
Speaker 1: this is didn't want to pass the blame. No, he
Speaker 1: knows that we're on the bear Hunting podcast and he
Speaker 1: see me, I threw you under the bus, and he's like,
Speaker 1: he's going to tell you what you want to No.
Speaker 1: I just I had got into two dog hunting the
Speaker 1: last couple of years that it was legal in California,
Speaker 1: and you know, I had harvested to bear down there,
Speaker 1: and one of them was decent. But I had a
Speaker 1: dog at the tree. But it doesn't mean they played
Speaker 1: any part in any of that. I was hunting with
Speaker 1: a group of guys that it took wouldn't matter. You
Speaker 1: wouldn't have known right exactly what we did. We did well,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say we ever ran GPS in California
Speaker 1: before it was legal. So uh, I would just like
Speaker 1: to go back and harvest a nice bear with my
Speaker 1: own dogs. I feel like I really missed that opportunity
Speaker 1: just due to the timing. So that's what I would
Speaker 1: want to go back and do. Yeah, right on, I
Speaker 1: hear you about your your hound dreams, and my hound
Speaker 1: dreams man't even done a corny joke. Yeah, you get
Speaker 1: a hound dream in a corny joke. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I thought the corny joke was gone a second hour.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I'd like to go after
Speaker 1: a mountain lion or and maybe like a Lynx at
Speaker 1: some point, I think a Links would be cool. I
Speaker 1: could be the BC. Yeah, let's do some big ones.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Yeah, I'm up for it. We didn't
Speaker 1: get to Canada. Can you even get to Canada now?
Speaker 1: Borders closed? Yeah? Little links are are fun. I enjoyed that.
Speaker 1: I was thinking whenever you asked me that, like it
Speaker 1: was it was Cougar, it was Links, it was Bobcat.
Speaker 1: And the Lynx is just too cold to enjoy that long,
Speaker 1: whereas Bobcat I can just enjoy the It's not you know,
Speaker 1: you do have to go out in the cold for it,
Speaker 1: but it's not like you in there. It's it's cold.
Speaker 1: You gotta deal with cold a lot, and I don't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think for me, it's part of the allures. Just
Speaker 1: I haven't seen him in the world and so it's
Speaker 1: like something new. Mm hmm mm hmm. Nice. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: you here, you know, I'm I am under the spell
Speaker 1: of the lion Hunter these days and have been for
Speaker 1: a while. Um, I would uh and and I actually,
Speaker 1: I mean I have plans to do this to do
Speaker 1: some do it yourself lion hunting, either in New Mexico
Speaker 1: or in Idaho. Uh. You know, I've got the dogs
Speaker 1: that I'm running, have some you know a lot of
Speaker 1: them that strainers used for big game. So I feel
Speaker 1: like even though my dogs are coon dogs, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like, uh uh, well, I know I'm straight
Speaker 1: to deal. My buddy straight to deal on New Mexico's
Speaker 1: running a little female that he got for me that's
Speaker 1: doing really good on dry ground lines out there. But
Speaker 1: now I would love to take take my mules on
Speaker 1: and do it yourself. Deal a couple of good dogs
Speaker 1: and tree big line l prim with with your celebrity status,
Speaker 1: you got any guy that take a limo out there?
Speaker 1: I probably had somebody drive the truck and horse and
Speaker 1: then I would take the limo. But the sad alone
Speaker 1: for you jet helicopter comes in. Where was this question?
Speaker 1: Are you gonna? So you say do it yourself? You're
Speaker 1: gonna You're gonna intentionally not like if you come here
Speaker 1: like you're gonna have a hard time keeping up cat
Speaker 1: dog you know yourself is well answer you ask your question.
Speaker 1: So if let's just say you want to do podcast
Speaker 1: calling over clay and you come here and you bring
Speaker 1: your dogs with a season cat hunter, a season lion hunter.
Speaker 1: Your dog's gonna have a hard time keeping up with
Speaker 1: that because you're just conditioned for that. So are you
Speaker 1: when you say do it yourself? Are you like you're
Speaker 1: gonna go on the mountain by yourself? Or I mean,
Speaker 1: are you either? Or you know I'm not opposed to,
Speaker 1: I just don't. I've killed the line in Idaho with
Speaker 1: a tread bow over hounds with an outfitter, Leon Brown.
Speaker 1: He's a good he's a friend of mine, Leon and
Speaker 1: Molly Brown Clark for outfit ors out there. Um, and
Speaker 1: that was awesome. Uh, But I would like to do
Speaker 1: it all by myself. But and I probably won't, but
Speaker 1: I think it would be like, um, I would just
Speaker 1: like to have a dog in the hunt, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Just not be you know, just have
Speaker 1: a dog in the hunt, know the ground like I
Speaker 1: wanna part of To me, as much as I've traveled
Speaker 1: and hunted and as much as I love local hunting
Speaker 1: like you do, buddy, I mean I would have probably
Speaker 1: said the same thing as you, like I just want
Speaker 1: to hunt right here at home, Like I think there's
Speaker 1: a ton of value in local hunting, and people kind
Speaker 1: of romanticize traveling and hunting and uh and and there's
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that, but but I like the idea.
Speaker 1: And like in Montana, I've been up to Montana four
Speaker 1: times now and do it yourself hunts taking my mules.
Speaker 1: And that's not with dogs. But I'm starting to find
Speaker 1: a real connection to that land just from being there,
Speaker 1: spending time there, And I found that's what I value
Speaker 1: in hunting. It's not killing the animal, it's learning that. Like,
Speaker 1: I feel really uncomfortable right now that I don't know
Speaker 1: eighty percent of the tree species that I can see
Speaker 1: right now. I really do like that. Bothers me um
Speaker 1: and uh so you know, as you so you just
Speaker 1: want a dog there. So you just want do you
Speaker 1: want to be you want a dog to contribute that
Speaker 1: would be valuable to me. I mean there's a good
Speaker 1: opportunity for that though. I mean between well, Idaho, Arizona
Speaker 1: is a good for non resident Yeah, Nevada, Like I'm
Speaker 1: if I get the time off work, I'm looking at
Speaker 1: you know, I'm wanting to go to Nevada leaves for
Speaker 1: about three weeks, four weeks. Right, there's there's a couple
Speaker 1: of months they're like June July. Yeah, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of good out of state opportunities still, you know, like
Speaker 1: we're really looking at Nevada, my buddy Brandon and I
Speaker 1: and I'm kind of like you, I just want to
Speaker 1: have a dog do something. You know, I don't mind
Speaker 1: going with that for people, for people who and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people that listen to podcasts that don't
Speaker 1: have hounds, there's something beyond magical about having a dog
Speaker 1: in the hunt. I mean really, I think it goes
Speaker 1: back to our very origins as humans. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: undoubtedly we survived as a species because of our connection
Speaker 1: to dogs, and that is still very much alive. Fire.
Speaker 1: The reason that when we see a camp fire light up,
Speaker 1: even if it's not cold, and we want to walk
Speaker 1: over there and just look at it. It's it's a
Speaker 1: it's an adaptive trait. I mean, we survived because of
Speaker 1: our ability to manipulate fire. We we were drawn to it.
Speaker 1: It's not it doesn't make sense. It's not rational, logical,
Speaker 1: and it's just like a dog, dog fire clear water.
Speaker 1: Like there's just like yeah, so it's cool. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's definitely a dog connection is pretty
Speaker 1: tense for a lot of people. You know, you see
Speaker 1: somebody maybe don't like a dog or whatever, but I
Speaker 1: know those people, Yeah, don't trust those people. Don't trusty friends.
Speaker 1: They're down in Portland right now rioting. Well. You see
Speaker 1: it in the pet world. I mean, even people that
Speaker 1: don't have hunting dogs. Like the way people treat their pets.
Speaker 1: It's just the unbelievable. And then and then to me,
Speaker 1: you take that that a similar well in the same
Speaker 1: strain of value in this animal, and then you turn
Speaker 1: it into a utility, you know, an animal as utility
Speaker 1: that you're hunting with, and I think you've got something
Speaker 1: even kind of more incredible and even more pure. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's supernatural or super healthy for people to
Speaker 1: treat I mean, I'm all for treating animals very well
Speaker 1: and having pets and liking them. For some of the
Speaker 1: stuff that we're seeing, it's like beyond bizarre. But the
Speaker 1: pet clothing market when my wife was managing the vet clinic,
Speaker 1: I mean, it is insane the amount of money that
Speaker 1: goes in the just pet clothing, you know, like pet market. Man,
Speaker 1: don't do it. I'm not afraid of failure. Take a chance,
Speaker 1: you might lose it all. It's crazy. Well, the guys,
Speaker 1: thanks so much, thanks for your hospitality here. We're so
Speaker 1: what we're doing and hopefully you'll hear about this on
Speaker 1: a later podcast. But Cope and I are about to
Speaker 1: check off into the back country on tonight. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so we're Buddy and Jason are kind of showing us
Speaker 1: around a little bit up here, and beautiful country, big country,
Speaker 1: lots of bears, but it's very very dense cover, so
Speaker 1: it's hard to find them. And that's what we're trying
Speaker 1: to figure out, is where to find them. But we're
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna get back in and do some hunting.
Speaker 1: You got me. You gotta excerned me on bear hunting
Speaker 1: a little bit. I haven't had my truck in the
Speaker 1: woods without a dog boxing in a while, so seeing
Speaker 1: my Oregon openers today. So as soon as we're done here,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm trucking home. Yeah, the hunt his own. Well, Buddy,
Speaker 1: ain't any any closing thoughts you'd like to say? The
Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine podcast listeners. No, No, I'm good, I
Speaker 1: want to I'm gonna keep my mouth shut. Talk to
Speaker 1: me I am impressed. Like this is probably because me
Speaker 1: and Jason be trying to our podcast and you're making
Speaker 1: us look like a rookie. I mean, you're just like
Speaker 1: master Jed. You're talking about Jedi Jason about there, You're
Speaker 1: like like Jedi Clay. I'm just I'm just wowed and
Speaker 1: my brain is just like racking on how well you
Speaker 1: do a podcast. So it's it's appreciate and per I've
Speaker 1: heard you and I've listened to you. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: like back you're talking about two thirteen, Um, when you
Speaker 1: first got bear hunting and we worked together for a
Speaker 1: little bit when you met it it was Michigan, I think,
Speaker 1: and and we had to I wasn't able to to
Speaker 1: sponsor you and continue to sponsor you. Um, but you
Speaker 1: have really like grown as far as what I've watched
Speaker 1: and seen, and it's impressive. And so seeing you in person,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you came out and like it's my my
Speaker 1: wheels are spinning. Well, I appreciate it, man, I appreciate it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: pleasure to meet you Jackson this first time. We said
Speaker 1: yesterday you chatted a little bit. But it's a pleasure,
Speaker 1: that's right, all right. Well, Colby, we're better go kill
Speaker 1: a beart. Closing thoughts, Colby, let's kill a beart all right,
Speaker 1: too well, keep the wild places wild. That's worth bear.