WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Who was Lori Erica Ruff 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:05.000 Hey, everybody, this is Steve. Before this show starts, I 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:08.720 just wanted to give everybody a little heads up. It 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:11.959 turns out we found out after we had recorded this 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:14.880 episode that we were having a bit of an issue 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:17.640 with a piece of our equipment. So the audio and 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.960 spots is a little off. Did the best we could 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.280 to fix it, but it's not perfect, so at times 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.240 might be a little rough. Bear with us through this. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:29.319 We figured out what it is, we fixed it for 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:33.159 future episodes. But with that having been said, on with 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:50.120 the show Thinking Sideways, I'm it stories of things we 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:55.800 simply don't know the answer too. Hi there, and welcome 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.959 to another episode of Thinking Sideways, the hard hitting Internet podcast. 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:06.640 Yeah so I'm Joe, joined as always by my lovely 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:11.520 co host and Steve. They're both very lovely. I feel 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.640 very lovely today. Yeah, you look pretty lovely. We're going 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:19.920 to mention it earlier. My new outfit. Yeah it's good. Yeah, 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:24.760 he plucked his eyebrows too. They needed it. Well. Okay, 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.760 for those of you who are new to this podcast, 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:30.880 there's probably still a few people who are. Well. We 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.360 get together and we're just looking un solved mysteries, and 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:35.400 of course we solved them, well, not very often, but 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.760 occasionally I think I think we've based some good headway 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.000 in a few of them. So today we're going to 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:45.360 tackle get another unsolved mystery. So if you're all already yes, 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:48.640 realized that was a request for response. I thought it 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.120 was rhetorical. I want to make sure you guys have 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:55.160 to put the phones awaste up texting whatever, Okay, so 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.880 just tweet. Also, I should mention this story was a 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.720 listeners suggestion. It was suggested by Stephanie. Thank you, Stephanie. 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:04.640 And I also want to give a shout out to Cindy. 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.640 Cindy as a newer listener. And the funny thing is 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.160 is that I would had been doing some research on 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:12.160 this very story because I was planning on doing it, 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:13.680 and then I checked our email and there was an 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.839 email from none other than Cindy suggesting this story, which 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:18.880 I thought was kind of funny. That's a coincidence, but 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:22.120 so thank you Cindy, Thank you Stephanie. Our story begins 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.600 in UH two thousand and three when a guy named 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.240 Blake Ruff who lived in Longview, Texas, met a girl 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.760 named Laurie Kennedy. Her full name was actually Laurie Erica 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:36.359 Kennedy and they met at church in Dallas. Laurie had 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:38.680 lived in Texas for about fifteen years. She'd moved there. 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.120 She was originally from Arizona. So she told him she 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:44.920 had a degree in business and it was a quote 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:50.079 unquote marketing consultant. Shopper shopper, Yeah, I guess, yeah, that 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:54.480 was basically all she did. Yeah, yeah, the mystery shopper so, uh, 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:59.160 which is really apropos Yeah, I know. They So any way, 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:01.440 they started hanging out. They got married in two thousand 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.840 and four, like a year after they met, right properly 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.639 that Yeah, So Blake was very close to his family, 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:09.600 and of course they being a very friendly bunch of 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.360 Texas folks. Uh, they wanted to meet her right away, 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.720 and they got together for launch and they started asking 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.200 her about her family and where she was from. She 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.520 was very secretive about the whole thing. She didn't want 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.600 to talk about it at all, uh, and was kind 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:24.880 of put them off a little bit. She she didn't 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.040 say as much as she said. Her parents were dead. 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.520 Her father had apparently been a failed stock stockbroker, and 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:33.519 the parents had both died, and she had no siblings, 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:37.160 no living relatives. And she hadn't had a good past. 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.000 Her childhood was rough apparently, and that's that's about all 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:42.360 she would say. She also she told Blake that she 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.440 had destroyed any evidence of her family past, family life, 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.040 like letters and photographs and things like that. And so 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.080 when they started talking about marriage, Blake's mother, of course, 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.360 wanted to put a wedding announcement in local paper like 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:55.880 you do in Texas, like you do everywhere, you know, Yeah, 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.040 and so Laurie was all against that. She said, we 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.760 don't do things that way. So very strange, kind of 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.600 secretive person. So moving forward, they were married, they started 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:08.520 trying to have a child, and they bought a house 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:10.840 in Leonard, Texas, which is about a hundred twenty five 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.760 miles from Longview, which is where the folks live. They 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.359 were a two maker parcel and the neighbors didn't have 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.120 much interaction with them. They said that Laurie especially was 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.640 not sociable at all. One neighbor said that in the 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.400 six years that they had lived there, she socialized just 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.320 once in the entire six years. Didn't I thought that 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.480 There was the recounting of, you know, often seeing her 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.960 in the evening hours walking around the property like eyes down, 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:38.680 refusing to make eye contact with anyone, kind of antisocial 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:44.200 disassociated behavior. Yeah, she was. She was a fairly antisocial person. Well, 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:48.280 and my question when they say socializing with her is 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.120 that they had a hey, how you doing? Oh good? Hey, 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:58.200 good to see drinks or barbecue? Barbecue. I'm not sure 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.120 what he meant by socializing, And maybe that just meant 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.000 they were all walking around and they just chatted about 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.080 the weather for a minute. Yeah, but I didn't get 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.480 the sense that there were any you know, hey, how 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.279 are you good, how are you interactions outside of you know, 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.800 the one time of socializing. Yeah. I mean I have 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.600 neighbors like that. I've waved at him and say hi, 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:21.280 and they waved back, and that's it. There are neighbors 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.440 like that. Yeah, it's not too remarkable. Although I don't 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.360 have the sense that she would have even waved back. 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.280 But sure, because she would have pretended not to see 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.520 because she's staring straight to the ground. Yeah, possible. It 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:35.719 sounds like her. Yeah, she was a little different anyway, 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.480 I said, as I said, they were trying to have kids. Uh, 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.040 And I've heard report said she had a miscarriage or 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.680 another report she had several, but I don't know. But 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.680 she eventually had a successful pregnancy, gave gave birth to 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:50.040 a baby girl in two thousand and eight, and apparently, 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.159 according to the in laws, she was extremely overprotective towards 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:55.960 never really interacted with a baby before. Yeah, they felt 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.359 that the way she handled the baby and everything, they 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.160 felt like she was not familiar with baby at all whatsoever, 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:03.719 which is okay, I'm not familiar with babies either, so 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:08.440 I'm not going to judge her doing things like, you know, 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.680 if the baby would start to chew on something, catch away, 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.760 or uh, wouldn't let anybody else take care of this baby? 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.080 Even though her in laws this, I think it was 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:23.240 like grand baby number nine exactly, the very overprotective, I 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.720 don't know what to do, but nothing gets near my 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.920 baby and it's safe, little bubble kind of mentality, which 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:33.120 a lot of admittedly a lot of new parents do that. 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.839 You can't hold that against her, but it's still a 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.120 little strange because I have friends who were like that 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:42.440 at first, and then we'd all say, uh, you know, 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:47.280 let the kid chew on the dog's tail. It's okay. Yeah, 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:49.640 I think that, like there's a slight different you know 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:54.960 that's there's a scope of normal over interaction for new parents, 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.240 and I think particularly if you're a grandparent looking in 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.960 and having had children who had children for the first time, 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.960 there's that scope of like what's fairly normal for overprotective 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.239 first time parents to be in that sort of way, 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.560 and then there's going beyond that, And I would probably 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.280 trust their judgment in that they would be able to say, 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.360 like it was, it was really even above and beyond that. Yeah, 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:23.440 I know, and I don't disagree with that. It's very obvious. Yeah, Anyway, 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:27.320 so things just sort of went downhill. Uh. Laurie and 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.480 the family really didn't get along. She she felt like 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.080 she was she would take every little thing they would 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.880 say as a slight and she was always rarely against 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.120 them to Blake, which upset Blake because he was close 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:40.800 to his family. And eventually got to the point where 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.240 they wouldn't allow and she wouldn't allow any vegitation with 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:48.360 the daughter very little, and this this behavior just got worse, 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:50.480 and Yeah, she wouldn't leave the kid with the in 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.800 laws in that room, like I can't go to the 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.880 bathroom with the baby in this room with you. I'll 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.520 take the baby with me kind of behavior. Yeah, just 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.800 a lot of stuff like that, and so the riff 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.440 just got worse, and so they separated. In the summer 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:09.640 of two thousand ten, Blake moved out, moved back in 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.360 with his folks back in a long View five miles away, 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:16.120 and filed for a divorce, and things kind of unraveled 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:20.080 from there. Lourie Lorie apparently went sharply downhill after he 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:22.960 moved out, and lost a lot of weight and was 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:25.480 according to one neighbor who saw her, she was she 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.120 and the daughter were both very thin, and uh, she 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.760 seemed kind of incoherent. So she started actually harassing the 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:36.160 Rough family and Blake, supposedly sending them threatening emails and 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.559 things like that, and breaking into Supposedly they noticed the 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.480 key was missing, although that's you know, sometimes kids get lost. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.640 So I'm not gonna gonna discount that one. So yeah, 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.080 the so Lorie was not doing that well. Uh, and 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:50.959 I also at this one, let me let me note 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.040 that she was supposedly, according to Blake, taking medication for 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.040 a d h D or O c D or Twourettes 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.439 or something. He was gonna Yeah, there's a Blake apparently 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:02.680 was not detail all right, and he really seems to 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:06.760 be surprisingly I'm curious somebody. I think it was maybe 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:11.880 his cousin described him as having a startlingly small inner monologue. Yeah, yeah, 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:17.160 which seems to be a very perfect description, because he 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:20.640 didn't really make decisions on his own, and he didn't 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.679 really take initiative on most things. I think it might 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.320 be the same person who said, well, I went and 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:32.320 bought a black tahoe. So he did it. Yeah, Like 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.360 he just he kind of did what people told and 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:38.640 he didn't question anything. If you said, you know, actually 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.120 the sky is green, he goes, huh, that's weird. Looks 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:47.080 blue to me, Okay, and just would leave it at that. Yeah. Well, anyway, 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.959 so Blake sounds like a nice guy. But I'm a 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.720 little surprised he didn't know specifically what her issue was 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:58.000 that she was taking medication for. Yeah. Another thing that 0:09:58.040 --> 0:09:59.640 he she had a lock box he kept in the 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:01.280 bedroom closet. Did you guys have heard of the lock 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:03.920 box before him? She told him never to touch it, 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:06.720 and so he didn't. What should be like for me? 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:07.880 I mean, I, on the one an, you want to 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:10.280 expect your wife's privacy. At the same time, if you 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:12.960 know that there's some incredible secret in that box, then 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.920 you know, wouldn't you have to go look at that box? Yeah? Yeah, 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:21.199 I I I can't resist tearing through the house before 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:25.400 Christmas looking for things. Let alone, if you say, hey, 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:27.280 so I've got this box that I've locked up and 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:29.400 it's in the bottom of the closet, I would be 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:31.640 I would do everything in the sun to figure out 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:34.000 how to pick that thing we get in there. I 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.840 don't think he I mean, you know A great example 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:39.760 of this is again like Blake was the kind of 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.320 man who, like she said, oh no, I burned all 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:45.200 my family photos because I had it bad. And he 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.160 wasn't like why was it bad? He was just like, Okay, 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.480 that's what I mean, tell me about it, tell me, 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.960 let's talk to let get over the trauma. Yeah. No, 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:57.560 apparently he was just like okay, So I guess he 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.839 was kind of the okay guy. Yeah. Anyway, back to Lorie. 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:09.240 Lorie was again going downhill and on December she's Christmas Eve. 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:11.760 Oh I didn't I didn't even make the connection there 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:17.439 Christmas joke. She pulled into the rough driveway and shot 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.040 herself in the head and she was in a black 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:23.319 Chevy Tahoe. Yeah, shot herself on the head way to 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.920 wreck everybody's Christmas lorieu. In the car they found two letters. 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.200 One was to Blake it was eleven pages long, and 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.200 another was to their daughter, which was to be opened 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.559 on her eighteenth birthday. One of the things that I've 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.040 seen some of the documents pertaining to this whole thing 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:40.760 and the family, obviously they deserved their privacy, so they 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.160 have to have opened up letter. I think they did 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.280 and said it said that the letters were both in coherent, 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.040 incoherent ramblings. Yeah, I think there couldn't have been at 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:52.040 any useful clues in there. So so you know, they 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:55.280 just chose not to publish them. Which side atmosphere well, 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:58.440 and it's you're absolutely right, they deserve their privacy. And 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.679 this is a terrible tragedy. I mean, for you know, 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:05.280 the two years after you have a child and you're 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.600 starting to get divorced and then all of a sudden 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.960 she just you know, goes around the bend I think 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:15.680 is the phrase that that used and and kills herself. That. Yeah, 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.640 you've got to you've got to respect it for these peoples. Now, 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:22.200 granted we're four years later. But yeah, but maybe four 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.000 years isn't enough. Well, yeah, there's always that, is it 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.839 too soon? And you've got to feel sad for Laura too, 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:33.880 because she obviously had her inner demons. Yeah. A week 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:38.199 or so after her suicide, after the funeral of Blake's brother, Miles, 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.520 along with a few other family family members, drove to Leonard, 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.560 Texas to search the house, and when they got there, 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:46.960 they kind of place was a mess. She really had 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.680 let herself go. Piles of dirty dishes, piles of dirty laundry, 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.280 trash bags full of shredded documents. Certainly the crib was 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:59.960 like soiled, soiled, yeah, uh. And so Blake had told 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.640 Miles about the forbidden lock box that was hidden in 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.400 the closet that he wasn't allowed to touch, so naturally, 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:07.440 he made a b line for the closet and dug 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.640 around until he found the lockbox and pried it open 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.679 with a screwdriver, and he found really used a screwdriver, 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:14.480 that's what he said. He said, he used, that is 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.000 a really good lock box. He said, yeah, I know, 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.959 it's probably the tin box. He used a flat blated 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.959 screwdriver to break into it, and he found the following things. 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.000 He found pages from an Arizona phone book, some scraps 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.960 of paper with notes on them, some very random little notes. 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.840 Also a birth certificate for a certain Becky Sue Turner 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.480 who was born in nineteen sixty nine and Bakersfield, California 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.000 and Idaho I d card in the same name with 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:44.840 Lori's photo on it. So it turns out that Lorie 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:49.319 Kennedy Rough, her true name, was actually Becky Turner, except 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.200 Becky Turner died in a house fire in nineteen seventy 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:56.360 one at the age of two, so I know. So 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.240 the Rough family hired a private investigator to try to 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.240 find out who he really was. He did a little 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.120 dig and he found out about Becky Sue Turner dying 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.160 in five, Washington, which is where she was living at 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.280 the time of her death, which is outside of Dacoma. Yes, yeah, 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.720 it is. And he managed to turn up a news 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.520 clipping from a local newspaper that described the deaths of 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.280 Becky and her two sisters, which, by the way, speaking 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:22.720 of tragedy, could you imagine being the parents three three 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.200 little girls who all died in the fire. Oh my god. 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:28.160 Never mind finding out years and years later that somebody 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.880 stole their identity. Yeah, somebody's reading is one of them, 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:35.360 I know. But so this listed their ages and also 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.960 their place of birth, Bakersfield, California. This actually is apparently 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.840 a very important detail, and she was perhaps as successful 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.640 as she was in stealing the identity. Did you read 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:49.200 about this? Yeah, because because since well, go ahead and well, 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.720 it just turns out that it's way easier to steal 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:57.320 somebody's identity if they were wet at that time, at 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.920 least if they were born in one state and died 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:04.160 in another, because the records often weren't actually cross reference. 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:06.360 Now one hand doesn't know what the other hand's doing. Yeah, 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:11.760 And apparently also at that time, at least the in California, UM, 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.640 they would just mail a birth certificate to anybody who 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.440 requested it. Yeah, and I don't know. I still I'm 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.120 assuming that we gotta call her from now on, Jane Doe. 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:26.560 And Jane Doe requested that if she requested it by mail, 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.200 and she truly wanted to get lost, then if your crest. 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:32.240 But if you're requested by mail, you're gonna leave a 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:36.800 paper trail, right theoretically, Yeah, yeah, and it all depends, 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:38.480 you know. See you don't know what's going to happen 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.800 in a little bureaucracy at the other end. Well, okay, 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:42.960 but here's the deal, right, is that if if just 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.920 anybody can write in and request it, Like, what's to 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.520 say that she used a real identity to request it? Right? 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.880 I mean they probably just asked for some money and 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.400 you just like get a money order or even just 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.320 send some cash. Could she could have read it a 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.560 PO box? Rend a p O box you get, you know, 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.600 put a wrong name on it and just have it delivered. 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:08.360 But to rent a PO box you've got to provide identification. Okay, Here, 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:13.040 here's a problem is that do we know I think 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.600 I know where you're heading with this is do we 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:19.720 know if the State of California has on record the 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:24.920 address that they sent this document to. I don't know that. 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.360 I'm really curious. Done it at wherever she was living 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.240 at the moment. If it's not actually recorded, we don't 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.200 have to go to these great lengths of what you 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.400 could have got a post office. She could have just 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.360 sent it to her freaking an out. So as it 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:44.120 turns out, she did. I know she did have one, 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.080 but I'm just saying she didn't have to go to 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.040 that link necessarily at that time, she might not have. 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:51.760 But I think we're getting I think we're also mixing 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:53.920 this up, and we're getting a little ahead of ourselves. 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:55.800 I also don't know if in the seventies you really 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.400 did have to provide identification to get it. This was 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:03.200 actually eighties, and I don't remember exactly what exactly was 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:10.480 it that identity theft started becoming prevalent. Yeah, credit was 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:14.720 being a bigger thing. Sorry, we're we're a little out 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:16.960 over here. Back back to where we are we going? 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:22.040 The private investigator turns up a news clipping from a 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.040 local newspaper that described the desk of Becky, her two sisters, 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.480 listed their ages, their place of birth. He dug up 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.760 more info. She found out found out that she had 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.600 moved to Texas, and that she had legally changed her 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.879 name to Laurie Erica Kennedy and then applied for and 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.480 got a Social Security card. She got her g e 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:42.119 D and then enrolled in college, and of course she 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.000 didn't want to. I'm suspecting that she actually was older 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.200 than she said she was, and then she probably prevent suspicion. Yeah, 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:50.679 she she got her GD. She might have already had 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:52.919 a college degree at this point in time, but it 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:54.680 was in the wrong name. So she had to start 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.920 all over again and do the test out to get 0:17:57.920 --> 0:17:59.680 the g D and then go back to college again, 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:04.040 and she got a degree in business administration. But that's 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.480 about as far as the private investigator got in finding 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:09.840 out who she was. So it turns out the Rough 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:13.040 family was friendly with a Texas congressman who was at 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.760 the time served on the House Intelligence Committee, and they 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:21.000 were wondering about Becky or Becky Sue Jane Doe Lorie Ruff. 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:22.800 They were wonder if maybe she was a Soviet mole 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.360 or something like that, and so they took their evidence 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.520 to him that they had uncovered so far, and he 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.679 took the information to a guy named Joseph Lling who 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.480 was an investigator for the Social Security Administration's who specialized 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:39.359 in fraud and identity theft and things like that. So 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.639 this is this guy was a pretty good detective and 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.480 he's actually spent he spent a couple of years trying 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.680 to break this case and he hasn't been able to 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.040 do it. I mean, this is a and he's he's 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:51.440 uncovered lots of stuff. He's the one who found out 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:53.600 that she had had that she had a PO box 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:57.080 in Boulder City, Nevada that she read in which border 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.920 mail to her Dallas address. Uh, he found out when 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:04.399 and she got Becky Turner's birth certificate. And again this 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:06.439 is this is a little mysterious to me. So they 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:08.200 kept a record of the fact that they had sent 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:12.160 out her birth certificate to somebody, but they didn't keep 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.960 a record of who they sent it to. That's bureaucracy 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:19.520 for you. Yeah, I know the form says was dis requested, 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:21.879 yes or no. That's all I filled in. Yeah, No, 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.040 it probably probably it's in a jacket and when when 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.680 everybodybody touches it, they probably have a stamp with a 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:28.920 date on it. They stamped the file or something like that, 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:33.080 you know, And so that's probably how they knew that. Yeah, 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:35.960 So he called some people that were referenced in her notes. 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.000 Her notes. By the way, did you see the notes? 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.480 They're kind of they're kind of scrawling, incoherent. I checked 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:43.080 the There's a bunch of different phone numbers in there, 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:46.119 and almost every single one of them. The area coaches 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.359 for setting for Los Angeles players, an attorney referenced in there, 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.920 from Los Angeles. It turns out he was a bankruptcy attorney. 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.480 And it turns out apparently he died a few years ago. 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.600 So but he but Bevelling got ahold of him, and 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:03.520 he knew nothing about it. And so maybe she just 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.720 got his name and she was thinking about declaring bankruptcy. 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.520 I don't know. It turned out she had declared bankruptcy 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:12.000 in Dallas back in the nineties. And by the way, 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:14.840 she got breast implants to in she did and a 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.600 job and a nose job. Yeah, he called so, he 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.240 called the He called the attorney and some other people 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.760 who were referenced in these in these incoherent notes of hers, 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:26.399 and he did more than that. He also got in 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:30.240 touch with the Turners and they had no idea who 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.439 she possibly could be. He ran photos every through facial 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:35.840 recognition databases because this guy works with the government, so 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:38.159 he can He's got access to a lot of resources, 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.720 resources that even thinking Sideways podcast doesn't happen. Yeah, I know. 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.000 He also said our fingerpists to the FBI. He compared 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.919 her d n A to DNA database databases. And he 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.560 was using I mean, he was using very some of 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.040 the resources. He was using were kind of mundane, like 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.760 ancestry dot com. But if you look at the notes 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:02.320 and by the way, polar link on the website folks, 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:04.280 and you can take a look at these PDFs of 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:08.240 some of her her notes she left behind, but her handwriting. 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.159 Joe and I had this conversation before we started recording. 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:16.080 I don't know that this is all handwriting by the 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:18.640 same person. I know. Joe said at one point, Well, 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:20.400 you know, it could be just you know, write down 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.480 a quick note, and so your handwriting is really sloppy, 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:27.400 except I look at letters that are written in sentences 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:30.440 or you know, blocks that don't look like they were 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:35.880 written fast. And there are letters that don't pair up, 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:39.080 like the s is or the ease or not the 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:42.760