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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, this is Steve. Before this show starts, I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to give everybody a little heads up. It

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Speaker 1: turns out we found out after we had recorded this

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Speaker 1: episode that we were having a bit of an issue

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Speaker 1: with a piece of our equipment. So the audio and

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Speaker 1: spots is a little off. Did the best we could

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Speaker 1: to fix it, but it's not perfect, so at times

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Speaker 1: might be a little rough. Bear with us through this.

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Speaker 1: We figured out what it is, we fixed it for

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Speaker 1: future episodes. But with that having been said, on with

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Speaker 1: the show Thinking Sideways, I'm it stories of things we

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Speaker 1: simply don't know the answer too. Hi there, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to another episode of Thinking Sideways, the hard hitting Internet podcast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah so I'm Joe, joined as always by my lovely

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Speaker 1: co host and Steve. They're both very lovely. I feel

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Speaker 1: very lovely today. Yeah, you look pretty lovely. We're going

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Speaker 1: to mention it earlier. My new outfit. Yeah it's good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he plucked his eyebrows too. They needed it. Well. Okay,

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Speaker 1: for those of you who are new to this podcast,

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Speaker 1: there's probably still a few people who are. Well. We

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Speaker 1: get together and we're just looking un solved mysteries, and

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Speaker 1: of course we solved them, well, not very often, but

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Speaker 1: occasionally I think I think we've based some good headway

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Speaker 1: in a few of them. So today we're going to

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Speaker 1: tackle get another unsolved mystery. So if you're all already yes,

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Speaker 1: realized that was a request for response. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was rhetorical. I want to make sure you guys have

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Speaker 1: to put the phones awaste up texting whatever, Okay, so

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Speaker 1: just tweet. Also, I should mention this story was a

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Speaker 1: listeners suggestion. It was suggested by Stephanie. Thank you, Stephanie.

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Speaker 1: And I also want to give a shout out to Cindy.

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Speaker 1: Cindy as a newer listener. And the funny thing is

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Speaker 1: is that I would had been doing some research on

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Speaker 1: this very story because I was planning on doing it,

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Speaker 1: and then I checked our email and there was an

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Speaker 1: email from none other than Cindy suggesting this story, which

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Speaker 1: I thought was kind of funny. That's a coincidence, but

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Speaker 1: so thank you Cindy, Thank you Stephanie. Our story begins

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Speaker 1: in UH two thousand and three when a guy named

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Speaker 1: Blake Ruff who lived in Longview, Texas, met a girl

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Speaker 1: named Laurie Kennedy. Her full name was actually Laurie Erica

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Speaker 1: Kennedy and they met at church in Dallas. Laurie had

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Speaker 1: lived in Texas for about fifteen years. She'd moved there.

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Speaker 1: She was originally from Arizona. So she told him she

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Speaker 1: had a degree in business and it was a quote

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Speaker 1: unquote marketing consultant. Shopper shopper, Yeah, I guess, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was basically all she did. Yeah, yeah, the mystery shopper so, uh,

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Speaker 1: which is really apropos Yeah, I know. They So any way,

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Speaker 1: they started hanging out. They got married in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and four, like a year after they met, right properly

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Speaker 1: that Yeah, So Blake was very close to his family,

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Speaker 1: and of course they being a very friendly bunch of

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Speaker 1: Texas folks. Uh, they wanted to meet her right away,

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Speaker 1: and they got together for launch and they started asking

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Speaker 1: her about her family and where she was from. She

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Speaker 1: was very secretive about the whole thing. She didn't want

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Speaker 1: to talk about it at all, uh, and was kind

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Speaker 1: of put them off a little bit. She she didn't

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Speaker 1: say as much as she said. Her parents were dead.

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Speaker 1: Her father had apparently been a failed stock stockbroker, and

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Speaker 1: the parents had both died, and she had no siblings,

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Speaker 1: no living relatives. And she hadn't had a good past.

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Speaker 1: Her childhood was rough apparently, and that's that's about all

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Speaker 1: she would say. She also she told Blake that she

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Speaker 1: had destroyed any evidence of her family past, family life,

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Speaker 1: like letters and photographs and things like that. And so

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Speaker 1: when they started talking about marriage, Blake's mother, of course,

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Speaker 1: wanted to put a wedding announcement in local paper like

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Speaker 1: you do in Texas, like you do everywhere, you know, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so Laurie was all against that. She said, we

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Speaker 1: don't do things that way. So very strange, kind of

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Speaker 1: secretive person. So moving forward, they were married, they started

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Speaker 1: trying to have a child, and they bought a house

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Speaker 1: in Leonard, Texas, which is about a hundred twenty five

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Speaker 1: miles from Longview, which is where the folks live. They

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Speaker 1: were a two maker parcel and the neighbors didn't have

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Speaker 1: much interaction with them. They said that Laurie especially was

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Speaker 1: not sociable at all. One neighbor said that in the

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Speaker 1: six years that they had lived there, she socialized just

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Speaker 1: once in the entire six years. Didn't I thought that

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Speaker 1: There was the recounting of, you know, often seeing her

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Speaker 1: in the evening hours walking around the property like eyes down,

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Speaker 1: refusing to make eye contact with anyone, kind of antisocial

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Speaker 1: disassociated behavior. Yeah, she was. She was a fairly antisocial person. Well,

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Speaker 1: and my question when they say socializing with her is

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Speaker 1: that they had a hey, how you doing? Oh good? Hey,

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Speaker 1: good to see drinks or barbecue? Barbecue. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: what he meant by socializing, And maybe that just meant

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Speaker 1: they were all walking around and they just chatted about

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Speaker 1: the weather for a minute. Yeah, but I didn't get

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Speaker 1: the sense that there were any you know, hey, how

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Speaker 1: are you good, how are you interactions outside of you know,

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Speaker 1: the one time of socializing. Yeah. I mean I have

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Speaker 1: neighbors like that. I've waved at him and say hi,

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Speaker 1: and they waved back, and that's it. There are neighbors

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Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, it's not too remarkable. Although I don't

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Speaker 1: have the sense that she would have even waved back.

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Speaker 1: But sure, because she would have pretended not to see

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Speaker 1: because she's staring straight to the ground. Yeah, possible. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like her. Yeah, she was a little different anyway,

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Speaker 1: I said, as I said, they were trying to have kids. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And I've heard report said she had a miscarriage or

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Speaker 1: another report she had several, but I don't know. But

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Speaker 1: she eventually had a successful pregnancy, gave gave birth to

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Speaker 1: a baby girl in two thousand and eight, and apparently,

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Speaker 1: according to the in laws, she was extremely overprotective towards

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Speaker 1: never really interacted with a baby before. Yeah, they felt

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Speaker 1: that the way she handled the baby and everything, they

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Speaker 1: felt like she was not familiar with baby at all whatsoever,

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Speaker 1: which is okay, I'm not familiar with babies either, so

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to judge her doing things like, you know,

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Speaker 1: if the baby would start to chew on something, catch away,

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Speaker 1: or uh, wouldn't let anybody else take care of this baby?

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Speaker 1: Even though her in laws this, I think it was

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Speaker 1: like grand baby number nine exactly, the very overprotective, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what to do, but nothing gets near my

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Speaker 1: baby and it's safe, little bubble kind of mentality, which

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Speaker 1: a lot of admittedly a lot of new parents do that.

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Speaker 1: You can't hold that against her, but it's still a

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Speaker 1: little strange because I have friends who were like that

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Speaker 1: at first, and then we'd all say, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: let the kid chew on the dog's tail. It's okay. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that, like there's a slight different you know

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Speaker 1: that's there's a scope of normal over interaction for new parents,

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Speaker 1: and I think particularly if you're a grandparent looking in

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Speaker 1: and having had children who had children for the first time,

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Speaker 1: there's that scope of like what's fairly normal for overprotective

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Speaker 1: first time parents to be in that sort of way,

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Speaker 1: and then there's going beyond that, And I would probably

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Speaker 1: trust their judgment in that they would be able to say,

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Speaker 1: like it was, it was really even above and beyond that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, and I don't disagree with that. It's very obvious. Yeah, Anyway,

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Speaker 1: so things just sort of went downhill. Uh. Laurie and

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Speaker 1: the family really didn't get along. She she felt like

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Speaker 1: she was she would take every little thing they would

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Speaker 1: say as a slight and she was always rarely against

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Speaker 1: them to Blake, which upset Blake because he was close

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Speaker 1: to his family. And eventually got to the point where

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't allow and she wouldn't allow any vegitation with

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Speaker 1: the daughter very little, and this this behavior just got worse,

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Speaker 1: and Yeah, she wouldn't leave the kid with the in

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Speaker 1: laws in that room, like I can't go to the

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Speaker 1: bathroom with the baby in this room with you. I'll

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Speaker 1: take the baby with me kind of behavior. Yeah, just

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff like that, and so the riff

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Speaker 1: just got worse, and so they separated. In the summer

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Speaker 1: of two thousand ten, Blake moved out, moved back in

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Speaker 1: with his folks back in a long View five miles away,

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Speaker 1: and filed for a divorce, and things kind of unraveled

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Speaker 1: from there. Lourie Lorie apparently went sharply downhill after he

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Speaker 1: moved out, and lost a lot of weight and was

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Speaker 1: according to one neighbor who saw her, she was she

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Speaker 1: and the daughter were both very thin, and uh, she

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Speaker 1: seemed kind of incoherent. So she started actually harassing the

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Speaker 1: Rough family and Blake, supposedly sending them threatening emails and

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Speaker 1: things like that, and breaking into Supposedly they noticed the

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Speaker 1: key was missing, although that's you know, sometimes kids get lost.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not gonna gonna discount that one. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: the so Lorie was not doing that well. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: I also at this one, let me let me note

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Speaker 1: that she was supposedly, according to Blake, taking medication for

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Speaker 1: a d h D or O c D or Twourettes

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Speaker 1: or something. He was gonna Yeah, there's a Blake apparently

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Speaker 1: was not detail all right, and he really seems to

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Speaker 1: be surprisingly I'm curious somebody. I think it was maybe

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Speaker 1: his cousin described him as having a startlingly small inner monologue. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which seems to be a very perfect description, because he

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Speaker 1: didn't really make decisions on his own, and he didn't

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Speaker 1: really take initiative on most things. I think it might

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Speaker 1: be the same person who said, well, I went and

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Speaker 1: bought a black tahoe. So he did it. Yeah, Like

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Speaker 1: he just he kind of did what people told and

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Speaker 1: he didn't question anything. If you said, you know, actually

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Speaker 1: the sky is green, he goes, huh, that's weird. Looks

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Speaker 1: blue to me, Okay, and just would leave it at that. Yeah. Well, anyway,

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Speaker 1: so Blake sounds like a nice guy. But I'm a

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Speaker 1: little surprised he didn't know specifically what her issue was

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Speaker 1: that she was taking medication for. Yeah. Another thing that

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Speaker 1: he she had a lock box he kept in the

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Speaker 1: bedroom closet. Did you guys have heard of the lock

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Speaker 1: box before him? She told him never to touch it,

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Speaker 1: and so he didn't. What should be like for me?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I, on the one an, you want to

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Speaker 1: expect your wife's privacy. At the same time, if you

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Speaker 1: know that there's some incredible secret in that box, then

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Speaker 1: you know, wouldn't you have to go look at that box? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I I can't resist tearing through the house before

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Speaker 1: Christmas looking for things. Let alone, if you say, hey,

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Speaker 1: so I've got this box that I've locked up and

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Speaker 1: it's in the bottom of the closet, I would be

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Speaker 1: I would do everything in the sun to figure out

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Speaker 1: how to pick that thing we get in there. I

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Speaker 1: don't think he I mean, you know A great example

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Speaker 1: of this is again like Blake was the kind of

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Speaker 1: man who, like she said, oh no, I burned all

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Speaker 1: my family photos because I had it bad. And he

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Speaker 1: wasn't like why was it bad? He was just like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's what I mean, tell me about it, tell me,

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Speaker 1: let's talk to let get over the trauma. Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: apparently he was just like okay, So I guess he

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Speaker 1: was kind of the okay guy. Yeah. Anyway, back to Lorie.

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Speaker 1: Lorie was again going downhill and on December she's Christmas Eve.

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Speaker 1: Oh I didn't I didn't even make the connection there

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Speaker 1: Christmas joke. She pulled into the rough driveway and shot

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Speaker 1: herself in the head and she was in a black

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Speaker 1: Chevy Tahoe. Yeah, shot herself on the head way to

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Speaker 1: wreck everybody's Christmas lorieu. In the car they found two letters.

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Speaker 1: One was to Blake it was eleven pages long, and

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Speaker 1: another was to their daughter, which was to be opened

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Speaker 1: on her eighteenth birthday. One of the things that I've

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Speaker 1: seen some of the documents pertaining to this whole thing

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Speaker 1: and the family, obviously they deserved their privacy, so they

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Speaker 1: have to have opened up letter. I think they did

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Speaker 1: and said it said that the letters were both in coherent,

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Speaker 1: incoherent ramblings. Yeah, I think there couldn't have been at

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Speaker 1: any useful clues in there. So so you know, they

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Speaker 1: just chose not to publish them. Which side atmosphere well,

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Speaker 1: and it's you're absolutely right, they deserve their privacy. And

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Speaker 1: this is a terrible tragedy. I mean, for you know,

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Speaker 1: the two years after you have a child and you're

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Speaker 1: starting to get divorced and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: she just you know, goes around the bend I think

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Speaker 1: is the phrase that that used and and kills herself. That. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you've got to you've got to respect it for these peoples. Now,

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Speaker 1: granted we're four years later. But yeah, but maybe four

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Speaker 1: years isn't enough. Well, yeah, there's always that, is it

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Speaker 1: too soon? And you've got to feel sad for Laura too,

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Speaker 1: because she obviously had her inner demons. Yeah. A week

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Speaker 1: or so after her suicide, after the funeral of Blake's brother, Miles,

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Speaker 1: along with a few other family family members, drove to Leonard,

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Speaker 1: Texas to search the house, and when they got there,

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Speaker 1: they kind of place was a mess. She really had

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Speaker 1: let herself go. Piles of dirty dishes, piles of dirty laundry,

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Speaker 1: trash bags full of shredded documents. Certainly the crib was

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Speaker 1: like soiled, soiled, yeah, uh. And so Blake had told

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Speaker 1: Miles about the forbidden lock box that was hidden in

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Speaker 1: the closet that he wasn't allowed to touch, so naturally,

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Speaker 1: he made a b line for the closet and dug

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Speaker 1: around until he found the lockbox and pried it open

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Speaker 1: with a screwdriver, and he found really used a screwdriver,

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Speaker 1: that's what he said. He said, he used, that is

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Speaker 1: a really good lock box. He said, yeah, I know,

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Speaker 1: it's probably the tin box. He used a flat blated

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Speaker 1: screwdriver to break into it, and he found the following things.

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Speaker 1: He found pages from an Arizona phone book, some scraps

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Speaker 1: of paper with notes on them, some very random little notes.

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Speaker 1: Also a birth certificate for a certain Becky Sue Turner

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Speaker 1: who was born in nineteen sixty nine and Bakersfield, California

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Speaker 1: and Idaho I d card in the same name with

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Speaker 1: Lori's photo on it. So it turns out that Lorie

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Speaker 1: Kennedy Rough, her true name, was actually Becky Turner, except

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Speaker 1: Becky Turner died in a house fire in nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: one at the age of two, so I know. So

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Speaker 1: the Rough family hired a private investigator to try to

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Speaker 1: find out who he really was. He did a little

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Speaker 1: dig and he found out about Becky Sue Turner dying

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Speaker 1: in five, Washington, which is where she was living at

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Speaker 1: the time of her death, which is outside of Dacoma. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is. And he managed to turn up a news

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Speaker 1: clipping from a local newspaper that described the deaths of

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Speaker 1: Becky and her two sisters, which, by the way, speaking

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Speaker 1: of tragedy, could you imagine being the parents three three

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Speaker 1: little girls who all died in the fire. Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Never mind finding out years and years later that somebody

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Speaker 1: stole their identity. Yeah, somebody's reading is one of them,

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Speaker 1: I know. But so this listed their ages and also

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Speaker 1: their place of birth, Bakersfield, California. This actually is apparently

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Speaker 1: a very important detail, and she was perhaps as successful

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Speaker 1: as she was in stealing the identity. Did you read

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Speaker 1: about this? Yeah, because because since well, go ahead and well,

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Speaker 1: it just turns out that it's way easier to steal

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Speaker 1: somebody's identity if they were wet at that time, at

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Speaker 1: least if they were born in one state and died

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Speaker 1: in another, because the records often weren't actually cross reference.

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Speaker 1: Now one hand doesn't know what the other hand's doing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And apparently also at that time, at least the in California, UM,

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Speaker 1: they would just mail a birth certificate to anybody who

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Speaker 1: requested it. Yeah, and I don't know. I still I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming that we gotta call her from now on, Jane Doe.

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Speaker 1: And Jane Doe requested that if she requested it by mail,

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Speaker 1: and she truly wanted to get lost, then if your crest.

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Speaker 1: But if you're requested by mail, you're gonna leave a

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Speaker 1: paper trail, right theoretically, Yeah, yeah, and it all depends,

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Speaker 1: you know. See you don't know what's going to happen

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Speaker 1: in a little bureaucracy at the other end. Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: but here's the deal, right, is that if if just

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Speaker 1: anybody can write in and request it, Like, what's to

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Speaker 1: say that she used a real identity to request it? Right?

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Speaker 1: I mean they probably just asked for some money and

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Speaker 1: you just like get a money order or even just

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Speaker 1: send some cash. Could she could have read it a

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Speaker 1: PO box? Rend a p O box you get, you know,

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Speaker 1: put a wrong name on it and just have it delivered.

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Speaker 1: But to rent a PO box you've got to provide identification. Okay, Here,

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Speaker 1: here's a problem is that do we know I think

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Speaker 1: I know where you're heading with this is do we

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Speaker 1: know if the State of California has on record the

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Speaker 1: address that they sent this document to. I don't know that.

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Speaker 1: I'm really curious. Done it at wherever she was living

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Speaker 1: at the moment. If it's not actually recorded, we don't

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Speaker 1: have to go to these great lengths of what you

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Speaker 1: could have got a post office. She could have just

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Speaker 1: sent it to her freaking an out. So as it

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Speaker 1: turns out, she did. I know she did have one,

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Speaker 1: but I'm just saying she didn't have to go to

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Speaker 1: that link necessarily at that time, she might not have.

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Speaker 1: But I think we're getting I think we're also mixing

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Speaker 1: this up, and we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.

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Speaker 1: I also don't know if in the seventies you really

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Speaker 1: did have to provide identification to get it. This was

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Speaker 1: actually eighties, and I don't remember exactly what exactly was

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Speaker 1: it that identity theft started becoming prevalent. Yeah, credit was

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Speaker 1: being a bigger thing. Sorry, we're we're a little out

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Speaker 1: over here. Back back to where we are we going?

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Speaker 1: The private investigator turns up a news clipping from a

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Speaker 1: local newspaper that described the desk of Becky, her two sisters,

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Speaker 1: listed their ages, their place of birth. He dug up

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Speaker 1: more info. She found out found out that she had

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Speaker 1: moved to Texas, and that she had legally changed her

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Speaker 1: name to Laurie Erica Kennedy and then applied for and

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Speaker 1: got a Social Security card. She got her g e

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Speaker 1: D and then enrolled in college, and of course she

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Speaker 1: didn't want to. I'm suspecting that she actually was older

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Speaker 1: than she said she was, and then she probably prevent suspicion. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she she got her GD. She might have already had

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Speaker 1: a college degree at this point in time, but it

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Speaker 1: was in the wrong name. So she had to start

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Speaker 1: all over again and do the test out to get

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Speaker 1: the g D and then go back to college again,

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Speaker 1: and she got a degree in business administration. But that's

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Speaker 1: about as far as the private investigator got in finding

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Speaker 1: out who she was. So it turns out the Rough

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Speaker 1: family was friendly with a Texas congressman who was at

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Speaker 1: the time served on the House Intelligence Committee, and they

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Speaker 1: were wondering about Becky or Becky Sue Jane Doe Lorie Ruff.

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Speaker 1: They were wonder if maybe she was a Soviet mole

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Speaker 1: or something like that, and so they took their evidence

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Speaker 1: to him that they had uncovered so far, and he

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Speaker 1: took the information to a guy named Joseph Lling who

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Speaker 1: was an investigator for the Social Security Administration's who specialized

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Speaker 1: in fraud and identity theft and things like that. So

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Speaker 1: this is this guy was a pretty good detective and

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Speaker 1: he's actually spent he spent a couple of years trying

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Speaker 1: to break this case and he hasn't been able to

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Speaker 1: do it. I mean, this is a and he's he's

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Speaker 1: uncovered lots of stuff. He's the one who found out

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Speaker 1: that she had had that she had a PO box

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Speaker 1: in Boulder City, Nevada that she read in which border

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Speaker 1: mail to her Dallas address. Uh, he found out when

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Speaker 1: and she got Becky Turner's birth certificate. And again this

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Speaker 1: is this is a little mysterious to me. So they

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Speaker 1: kept a record of the fact that they had sent

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Speaker 1: out her birth certificate to somebody, but they didn't keep

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Speaker 1: a record of who they sent it to. That's bureaucracy

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Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, I know the form says was dis requested,

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Speaker 1: yes or no. That's all I filled in. Yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: it probably probably it's in a jacket and when when

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Speaker 1: everybodybody touches it, they probably have a stamp with a

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Speaker 1: date on it. They stamped the file or something like that,

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Speaker 1: you know, And so that's probably how they knew that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So he called some people that were referenced in her notes.

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Speaker 1: Her notes. By the way, did you see the notes?

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Speaker 1: They're kind of they're kind of scrawling, incoherent. I checked

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Speaker 1: the There's a bunch of different phone numbers in there,

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Speaker 1: and almost every single one of them. The area coaches

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Speaker 1: for setting for Los Angeles players, an attorney referenced in there,

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Speaker 1: from Los Angeles. It turns out he was a bankruptcy attorney.

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Speaker 1: And it turns out apparently he died a few years ago.

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Speaker 1: So but he but Bevelling got ahold of him, and

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Speaker 1: he knew nothing about it. And so maybe she just

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Speaker 1: got his name and she was thinking about declaring bankruptcy.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It turned out she had declared bankruptcy

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Speaker 1: in Dallas back in the nineties. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: she got breast implants to in she did and a

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Speaker 1: job and a nose job. Yeah, he called so, he

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Speaker 1: called the He called the attorney and some other people

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Speaker 1: who were referenced in these in these incoherent notes of hers,

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Speaker 1: and he did more than that. He also got in

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Speaker 1: touch with the Turners and they had no idea who

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Speaker 1: she possibly could be. He ran photos every through facial

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Speaker 1: recognition databases because this guy works with the government, so

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Speaker 1: he can He's got access to a lot of resources,

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Speaker 1: resources that even thinking Sideways podcast doesn't happen. Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: He also said our fingerpists to the FBI. He compared

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Speaker 1: her d n A to DNA database databases. And he

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Speaker 1: was using I mean, he was using very some of

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00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 1: the resources. He was using were kind of mundane, like

388
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Speaker 1: ancestry dot com. But if you look at the notes

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Speaker 1: and by the way, polar link on the website folks,

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00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 1: and you can take a look at these PDFs of

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00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 1: some of her her notes she left behind, but her handwriting.

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Speaker 1: Joe and I had this conversation before we started recording.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that this is all handwriting by the

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Speaker 1: same person. I know. Joe said at one point, Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, it could be just you know, write down

396
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Speaker 1: a quick note, and so your handwriting is really sloppy,

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Speaker 1: except I look at letters that are written in sentences

398
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Speaker 1: or you know, blocks that don't look like they were

399
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:35,880
Speaker 1: written fast. And there are letters that don't pair up,

400
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: like the s is or the ease or not the

401
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 1: same in every in certain words. I understand there's a

402
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 1: drift when hand with handwriting, but no, this is it

403
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 1: all looks kind of different. Yeah, it's almost as if

404
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 1: somebody wrote part of it. She had that sheet of

405
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 1: paper and then she was writing on top of that.

406
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Speaker 1: There are some things like okay, so you know there's

407
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff on here, like Pacific bell A

408
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 1: b M offices, there's some dollar amount right below it,

409
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,959
Speaker 1: and then Mountain bell three hours less. But in the

410
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Speaker 1: top left hand corner upside down is written four or

411
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Speaker 1: two months, which and then there's like three little lines

412
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 1: underneath it. I don't know why that is. So it's

413
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: just peculiar, and you know what, and a little bit

414
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Speaker 1: it looks like it's actually it says forty and then

415
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:30,199
Speaker 1: it says two months, forty years, two months or something

416
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 1: right like that looks it doesn't look like it's actually

417
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: all meant to be the over two months or something. Yeah,

418
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 1: I mean it couldn't. It is quite possible. And actually

419
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: we should talk about this because a lot of people

420
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 1: reference that in the articles online. Four two months? What

421
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 1: was she hiding from? Okay, well, four two months is

422
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 1: a huge amount of time. Oh yes it's there's there's

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Speaker 1: actually a web page called months too years dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can go and it will convert months two years.

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00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding thirty three and a half years. Yeah,

426
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: thirty three and a half years. So but it could

427
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: be something as simple as she had to pay somebody

428
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: forty bucks over two months, something as simple as that.

429
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: You know, it could have just been all run together

430
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:22,959
Speaker 1: and she wasn't using dollars. I'm making examples of ways

431
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 1: to interpret this, because this stuff is just so hard

432
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 1: to figure out. Yeah, but but if you look at

433
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: if you look at the writing to though the four

434
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: or two months, it actually it looks to me like

435
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: a forty and then the two is a lot smaller.

436
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 1: The two is more more the size of the months

437
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 1: that follow up, right, So it looks actually wrote two

438
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: months and then wrote the forty later or the forty

439
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: one and then two months later. So I don't think

440
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: that the four two months really means anything. Yeah, Yeah,

441
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 1: I really discount these letters because they are just so

442
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: out there and I almost you know what they give me,

443
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 1: like a little bit that heb gbs, like as all

444
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: of all of this stuff is, it's so like discombobulated,

445
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 1: and it is so much of the handwriting is so different.

446
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: You know, like there's some of it that's very well

447
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: constrained and like definitely meticulous, and then there's like the

448
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 1: cursiff down in the bottom corner, and then there's you know,

449
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: it's all different. Doesn't look like it comes from the

450
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: same hand, Yeah No, I don't. Yeah anous Yeah, Like

451
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 1: especially the cursive down the lower left hand corner that

452
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: that looks much much different. So I don't know. It's

453
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: just an interesting anomaly about this, right, Yeah, she had

454
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 1: some other random stuff. She had this set of this

455
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: little set of jottings here, which are columns of numbers.

456
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: There's three sets of numbers in there. Each set is

457
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: two columns. They appear to be on the right hand side,

458
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: escalating years, starting in one column in sixty seven, another

459
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: one in ninety, another one nine. Although this is the

460
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: big assumption on my part, people have speculated that these

461
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: were this was her way of calculating her parents or

462
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: maybe Becky suit Turner's parents ages. But I don't see

463
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: why she would be even interested in doing that. She

464
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: didn't care about beckyc tournament as far as her own.

465
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: She had dumped that identity, so who cares. Yeah, it

466
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: might be maybe she had left behind two parents and

467
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: a sibling and she was trying to, you know, keep

468
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: track of her figure out how old it would be

469
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 1: at this particular time. I don't know. I don't know

470
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: why she couldn't have used simple arithmetical Yeah, that's exactly

471
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 1: what Joe and I talked about earlier. Down It is that. Okay,

472
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 1: So what is the first set of numbers? In the

473
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: upper left hand side forty eight nine. Okay, so we'll

474
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: just say that somebody at forty eight years old. The

475
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 1: other person is ninety simple edition thirty eight and eighty

476
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: twenty eight and seventy, like you can just kind of

477
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: take in simple increments. So it's really strange that it's

478
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 1: written out in such longhand it could be kind of

479
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: an O C D sort of thing and maybe there's

480
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: no rational purpose behind you very repetitive, yeah, but yeah,

481
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 1: it's and a lot of people I think came up

482
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: with the whole it's accolading mom and Dad's ages because

483
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: there are present on the page. There's there's a very

484
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: clear D and there's a very clear M. So mom,

485
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: dad and so. But that's what the third call on

486
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: this for Maybe that's her age. I don't know, it's uh,

487
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: you know, again, we're never gonna know, unless maybe it's

488
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 1: some sort of strange cryptograph. There's actually you know, one

489
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: of the things that's interesting is there's a there's a

490
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: theory floating out around there. I know, we're not at

491
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: the theories yet, um that maybe she had been an

492
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: abducted child and that eight is when she was released

493
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: or whatever. Got away or whatever and realized she had

494
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: to assume any identity. But is it fairly far freshed?

495
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: But um, I guess you could kind of rationalize this

496
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: sort of meticulous she It's possible that she was awful

497
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 1: at math and couldn't actually do that arithmetic or whatever,

498
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: or wanted to be able to just look at every

499
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: single number, but you know whatever, that last bit better

500
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: than I could say she was awful at math. Because

501
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: she she was that awful at math, how did she

502
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: get her g e d And a college degree? That's fair. Yeah,

503
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: So it's uh, I don't know. I mean, maybe it's

504
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: a trick that she's using to try and calculate based

505
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: on her assumed that she thinks she has aged what

506
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: ages those people would be, or even to calculate backwards.

507
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if she was an abductive child

508
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: and she didn't know how old she was, if she

509
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: found her parents or found somebody who she had a knew,

510
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: you know, rationally, then she was trying to calculate her

511
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's hard to tell. It's really kind

512
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: of strange. Yeah, I don't I don't think she was

513
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: abducted and hell to the the age of eighteen. Because

514
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: unless unless her abductor actually took the time and trouble

515
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: to tutor her and teacher and teacher things like, you know,

516
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: how to read and write stuff like that. Well, I

517
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: know we're going to talk about let's just let's put this. Yeah,

518
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: we're almost of the theories. We are pretty close to that.

519
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: Joseph Elling, the investigator with the so Security Administration, had

520
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: reached a dead end after about two years, so he

521
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: took the story to the Seattle Times and reported anymore.

522
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: You know, Haguan wrote a really good article about it.

523
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 1: That's I recommend if you don't know if you guys

524
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: read it or not, but yeah, how could you not.

525
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: But that's where it all ends. It's still a mystery,

526
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: I think. And what a Vellens vellings motivations was to

527
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: get photographs of her out there to the public and

528
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: maybe somebody would recognize her. So far, that's you know

529
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: that that came out in two thousand thirteen. That still

530
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: hasn't happened. Been interesting. You know, there's there's all the

531
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: you read the forums and it's like everybody's kind of like,

532
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: oh no, you know, yeah, this is the Internet. Though

533
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: somebody will come forward and identify her in no time.

534
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 1: And you know these are posts from like April two thirteen,

535
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: like yeah, okay, yeah and no time. But did he

536
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: do did did we mention if he is running DNA

537
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: or fingerprints or yeah? And fingerprints and got nothing? Yeah,

538
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: and the facial recognition didn't come back either. Sorry, it

539
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: might have. You might have said that already. I was

540
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: busy reading notes. That's okay, yeah, so so. But that's

541
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: not remarkable. Is a lot of people haven't been fingerprinted.

542
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: Although if she were, if she were a criminal, she

543
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: would have been fingerprinted. If she was fleeing something huge,

544
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: she would have been. She had been, she could be,

545
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: She could have been a criminal, but who had just

546
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: not yet been arrested and booked. Yeah, you know that's

547
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: always possible, that's true, although I don't know why changing

548
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: her identity would help. So one of the things that

549
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: really really intrigues me, and this might actually be the

550
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: key to unlocking the mystery, although it means searching through

551
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: a whole lot of haystacks for for a small needle.

552
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: But the question is is how did Lori Kennedy know

553
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,239
Speaker 1: about Becky Sue Turner's death? How did she find out

554
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: about it. There's several different ways to do that, you know.

555
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: And as a little aside, you know a lot of

556
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: people are saying, wow, she must have gotten a professional

557
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: identity broker or something like that that actually exists as

558
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: a professional. Yeah, but go ahead and try to find one.

559
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: I mean, do you do you know where you go

560
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: to find one of those guys. The thing about it

561
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: is is is I know how I know how to

562
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: get a fake I d set up. It's to these

563
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: days that it used to be, but I knew how

564
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: to do exactly what she did just for me to

565
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: spine novels and stuff in crime novels and stuff like that.

566
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: And so it's not everybody's thinking just like rocket science

567
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: to get new to get a new fake idea, but

568
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: especially in wasn't that is finding the right person who's

569
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: don need to assume right, That's the key. And so

570
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,719
Speaker 1: one way is to go through old newspapers looking at

571
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: obituaries and that eventually it's gonna take some time, but

572
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: eventually you're gonna stumble across that one person who died

573
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: at two, and so you're gonna go out. You want

574
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: somebody who died, you know it was very died very young.

575
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: You want somebody that was born around the late sixties,

576
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: and so eventually you're gonna find some age. Yeah, yeah,

577
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: And actually this was this is when I I sent

578
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: a message to marieno hagan about this yesterday and having

579
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: her back. I probably never will because I'm sure she

580
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: gets inundated with crack pop messages, but I was thinking

581
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: that she might have actually gotten that. I don't know

582
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: exactly where the column came from that news clipping, but

583
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: the obituary probably appeared in the Seattle Times and Seattle

584
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: Times of course has they have archives, and I'm sure

585
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: people are allowed to come in. And what my question

586
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: for for Moreen O'Hagan was, when people come in to

587
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: go through the archives, are they required to sign in

588
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: or show I d And so I was kind of

589
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: just so she found that if she pulled that burst

590
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: cer tapic in that me and that meant she would

591
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: have been spending time going through newspaper archives in in

592
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: all the local areas, so in Tacoma, in Seattle. I'm

593
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: not sure exactly which newspaper or newspapers she was going

594
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: through the archives, but that's one avenue. Again, that's a

595
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: that's a that's a big haystack. Ex Actually, it's a

596
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: several haystacks to go through. But if you're really determined

597
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: to find her, that's one way to do it. Another way,

598
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: you can find somebody who's a suitable identity that to

599
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: steal is to one or two grave guards looking at gravestones,

600
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: and also another one. And I think this is a

601
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: real stability is I think she might have known the

602
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: Turner family when she was a kid, which meant she

603
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: would have been living in five Maybe she was a neighbor,

604
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: or maybe she was a schoolmate or playmate one of

605
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: the kids. I'm guessing the oldest of the daughters who

606
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: died was eight years old. So for Becky, Becky, Sue, Jane, Doe,

607
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: Lorie to be old enough to remember the family and

608
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: the kids all dying in the fire, she would have

609
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: had to have been friends with the oldest one, the

610
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: eight year old. Well know, I wouldn't say that. She

611
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: could have been in the middle one, the medal one

612
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: was only three. Yeah, but as a neighbor, you don't

613
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: have to be the same age as somebody to be

614
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: friends and know them that. Oh yeah, I'd not say

615
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: she was precisely age. She might have been six or

616
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: seven or Okay, she might have and she might not

617
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: even really been friends, so they might have just lived

618
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: a few houses down. And when the fire went up,

619
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: it was a huge tragedy that stuck in her mind

620
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: because why wouldn't it you know, you saw these people

621
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: and now they're dead. Well, one of the children survived,

622
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: didn't they one of the one of the kids survived

623
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: that fire. I thought they all died. One of them survived, Yeah,

624
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: and his accounted for work, just to like, I mean,

625
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: I thought, I thought three kids died in that fire. Kids, Okay, Okay,

626
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: I missed that. Okay. So I guess it's also possible

627
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: that that person became friends with Jane Doe later or

628
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: you know, I guess the story right. And I also

629
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: think it's like highly possible for if a huge tragedy

630
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: happens when you're three or four, you're gonna remember at

631
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: least big parts of that and if the time comes

632
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: for you to think, oh, gosh, I gotta I gotta

633
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: steal on identity, and she would say, oh, there was

634
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: that fire, and it would be yeah, you're being reminded constantly,

635
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: so you're like your childhood, because every time your mom

636
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: catches you, like like leaving the stove on, do you

637
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: want to be like the Turner family? And yeah, so

638
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: you so it's it's so. I think it's most likely

639
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: that she actually lived somewhere close to the Turners and

640
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: that's how she knew about it. It's it's and the

641
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: other ones that the other possibilities are strong too, But

642
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: that just meant a whole hell of a lot more

643
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: work for her to find the proper identity just to assume. Well, yeah,

644
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: but then I mean, then of course we have the

645
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: question of like why why, Well, that isn't expect big question,

646
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: which is why she wanted to do this? So well,

647
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: so's a few theories here. One is that she was

648
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: a spy, but but I know she was. She was

649
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: too unstable, just a little bit too looney, uh, And

650
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 1: she really didn't do anything to get into a sensitive

651
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: position where she could actually do the Russians or anybody

652
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: else any good. She lived in Texas and did a job,

653
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,720
Speaker 1: and I guess she Okay, let's go down the spy

654
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: novel route. She was a secret shopper, which means she

655
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: could have been looking at stuff and doing investigation and

656
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: doing all kinds of reconnaissance. But really I don't buy

657
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: that you got a bet a sleeper agent. You know,

658
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: she was left there to come up, you know, be

659
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: activated at some point and go off in a killing

660
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: spree without They didn't find any like guns and knives

661
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: or anything like that in her house, just as a

662
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,479
Speaker 1: gun she killed herself with. I didn't and I didn't

663
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: actually find out if it was a Soviet Man fashioned

664
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: gun or not. Probably not. Another theory that's out there

665
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: that's a lot of people will find popular said she

666
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: was fleeing a cult and she was like caught up

667
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: in a cult and she had to get away from them.

668
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: There's also the piggybacking on that theory is that I

669
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: guess somehow that she was traced to Idaho. Yeah, yeah,

670
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: she got well she was where she got That's where

671
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: she got her I d carry. Yeah, I don't know.

672
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if I want you all that stuff

673
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: or not. I thought I did. But she after she

674
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: got Becky Sue Turner's birth certificate, about a month or

675
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: so later, she shows up in Boise, Idaho and gets

676
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: an Idaho ID card, and then not long after that

677
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: she shows up in Dallas, Texas, and right after she

678
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: gets there, she files for a legal name change, and

679
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: so she changed her name legally, and then she applied

680
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 1: for her sole security number. Yeah, so she was in Idaho,

681
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: and I guess there's a lot of supremacy movement. Yes, probably,

682
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: I think is that where you're headed. That's not where

683
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: I was headed. I was headed down the like Mormon

684
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: rabbit home. This is actually apparently a thing that's like

685
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: happening or that's been happening in Idaho. That there's like

686
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: a lot of like kind of almost like culti offshoots

687
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: of the Mormon Church happening in Idaho. Um, that are

688
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 1: happening in the late eighties. Yeah, that are like super

689
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: cultish and like you can't get out of. And there's

690
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of other kind of church activities

691
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 1: not obviously sanctioned by the overarching church. I'm not trying

692
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: to disparage any of the churches, but there are crazy

693
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: people in every walks of life, and that that's apparently

694
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: a fairly legitimate that like she grew up in that

695
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: and escaped it and then found herself with no resources

696
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,919
Speaker 1: and somehow, you know, maybe through the Mormon Church, even

697
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: because they keep really good ancestral records, found out about

698
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: the Fife fire, grabbed that, just clung onto it and

699
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: took it from there. That's a fairly prevalent theory on

700
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: the Internet as well. That's really interesting because you know,

701
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: the other thing that I looked at is we have

702
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: this obviously, we have this huge spade of time where

703
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: we don't just don't know who she is, where she is.

704
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: And one of the things that I looked up was

705
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: the Roger Krishna's here in Oregon. And for anybody who

706
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 1: doesn't know this is very boiled down version are you

707
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: talking about Ronis? Thank you. I totally totally hacked that

708
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: name up. But the point is they it was a

709
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: religious movement. They were in Oregon for a couple of

710
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: years and then the raj nih She got in trouble

711
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: and they left, but they had thousands upon thousands of

712
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 1: followers were living on their compound. Okay, so let's say

713
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: she's one of their followers, and some of their followers

714
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: did get a lot of legal trouble because they did

715
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: some weird stuff. I cannot remember the name of the

716
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: woman who was one of the leaders. Yeah, Sheila, and

717
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:04,479
Speaker 1: she she poisoned people, she had committed she she had

718
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: contracts on people. She was off the d bed. But

719
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: is it if you were involved in the upper echelons

720
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: of that and you get out early enough before the

721
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: hammer comes down, you probably would want to disappear. I

722
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: don't know, just age wise, if that makes a whole

723
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: lot of sense, but maybe, well, they they gotten that

724
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 1: all of their legal troubles happened in eighty four to

725
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: eighty five. And then I just mean that, like, I

726
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: don't know that Jane Doe would have been old enough

727
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 1: to have been in the upper echelons of that stuff.

728
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: And I don't think that she said she was eighteen,

729
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: but she certainly wasn't older than thirty or than well. Yeah,

730
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: and I don't know that age. I think your devotion

731
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: got you round or not more than anything else. But yeah,

732
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: they are a whole another story to go into. But

733
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: that's one of the things I thought, is what if

734
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 1: they were part of that group and she was like,

735
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: I gotta get out of here, and I never want

736
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: to be associated with these people again, because holy Craft

737
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: is went south to go south. Though the originations didn't

738
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: give me the impression of being the kind of CULTI

739
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: kind of people that would actually track down a desert

740
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: or and kill them. They weren't really like that, but

741
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: they did a lot of things that got a lot

742
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: of people in legal trouble. And you realize that troubles

743
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: coming down the bend, you might just want to step

744
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: to the side and completely disappear from it. Yeah, maybe,

745
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: but why not? She lived by the way she engineered

746
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: the first biological attack at us soil. She Yeah, they

747
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 1: did all sorts of incredible stuff, incredible, incredibly crazy. Yeah,

748
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: But I mean, yeah, I think that that's it's a

749
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: fair point that it's totally possible that she had either

750
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: been born into got mixed up in some kind of

751
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 1: cult or crazy movement, realized that that was some trouble involved,

752
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: and and also she was pretty unbalanced. And not to

753
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: say that people in that sort of situation are unbalanced,

754
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: but obviously I put more stress on a person who

755
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: was already like a little a little bit sort of

756
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: teetering on the edge. She's I mean, but I think

757
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: about it is if you if you're fleeing, say abuse,

758
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: or if you're fleeing a cult and you've got this nice,

759
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: warm family of in laws who are asking about your past.

760
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: Why don't you just say, look, I I got him

761
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: mixed up with this cult and I had to I

762
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: had to get out with my life, and I changed

763
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: my name and I came here and started a new life.

764
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: And so you know, why not not just tell him

765
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: that same Yeah, I guess maybe she's advanced about yeah,

766
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: But at the same time, again, this is the thing

767
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: about her that was a little perverse in my opinion,

768
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 1: is that she really wanted to preserve her secret, her

769
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: secret past and everything. And she really should have just

770
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: sat down and come up with the biography for herself,

771
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: because she brought more suspicion upon herself by refusing to

772
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 1: talk about anything then she would have if she just said,

773
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, you pick, you pick a large city like

774
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: Los Angeles where you know and you say I'm from

775
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: Los Angeles and say, oh, do you know John Doe

776
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 1: and and you say, no, LA is a big place.

777
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: You don't want to pick a little small town. In

778
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: other words, yeah, and you just go with that and

779
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: just build yourself a false biography and and and go

780
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: with that. I don't know why she didn't do that.

781
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: So what do you think I also do just want

782
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: to point out, not to say anything bad against the Ruffs,

783
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: because I don't know them, but I do want to

784
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 1: point out that it's pretty much them saying we were

785
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: really nice to her, We were welcoming and wonderful and

786
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: non judgmental and just opened up our arms, and she

787
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: was just a crazy person. Yeah, I suppose you're making

788
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: a good point, you know. I mean, I'm not going

789
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 1: to say that they're not lovely people, because they probably are,

790
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: but there's also there's so many weird nuances with family

791
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: that like it is possible that maybe they thought they

792
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: were being nice and warm and welcoming, and really she

793
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: was truly interpreting it as they were being awful or

794
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: they were nice and warm and welcoming if she were

795
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: like a perfect Christian woman from the perfect background and

796
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: otherwise you know, they would not you know, I just

797
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: do want to go ahead and stay just for the

798
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: record that not to say that they are not, but

799
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,760
Speaker 1: we are kind of just they may be the Spanish

800
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: Inquisition and not realize they're being the Spanish Inquisition. Maybe

801
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: they do and they're happy to do. So that's that's

802
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: that's a good point that we don't have Laurie's side

803
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: of the story on the family relationship doing, nor do

804
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: we have. I don't think I've heard anybody like any

805
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: like family, friends or anything come up. It's all like

806
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: the family specifically. And part of that might be that

807
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: she just sequestered herself so much away from them that

808
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 1: nobody knew but Joe what. There's also this thing about

809
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: her being oh gosh, what's this woman's name that they

810
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: think she might have been? Jennifer Jennifer Jennifer. Yeah, what

811
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: is the deal with this? Because I saw this and

812
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,439
Speaker 1: I couldn't track with it now. Yeah, so somebody posted something.

813
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: There's there's some stuff around the internet about that. Somebody

814
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: said he did a Google image search on her on

815
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: her photograph, on Lorie's photograph. You can do a reverse

816
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: search on images, Yeah, you can, yea Google searches, Yeah,

817
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: pull up matches to the images. It's not that reliable.

818
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 1: But apparently some guy did a search and it actually

819
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: pulled up some of her her photos, but also pulled

820
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: up a photo of this Jennifer wicker chick? Was it?

821
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: Do I have a right as a wicker w I

822
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: c t o R. So Jennifer worked there with a

823
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: few notes I made. Yeah, so she disappeared, and so

824
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: somebody disappeared. Let's be fair. She disappeared in May of nine. Yeah, so, Uh,

825
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: there's some photographs that were out there. Some people have

826
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: have concluded from comparing the photographs that if Lori or

827
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: Jennifer had had a nose job, then there's a close

828
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: match between the two. I see it. No, I don't.

829
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: You don't know, not at all. If you look at

830
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: the two photographs, if you want to, I've got the

831
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: two photographs in the file. Jennifer. Well, first off, their eyebrows.

832
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: Their eyebrows are shaped very differently. Okay, but dude, yeah, dude,

833
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: are you serious? Women pluck their eyebrows all the time

834
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: and change the shape. That's true. But still, I mean,

835
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: I I think that that's at least that's got to

836
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: be at one telling point. I'm gonna come with totally

837
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: different eyebrows and see if you noticed, I'm gonna I'm

838
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: with mine penciled on. Yeah, and see if he notices, well,

839
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna come with false eyelashes. So but if the

840
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: other thing about it is is uh, number one, if

841
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: you look at their eyes, Loria's eyes are much larger

842
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: than Jennifer's eyes. Also they spaced Loria's eyes are spaced

843
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: further apart. I did. I did a quick thing I have.

844
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 1: I have photo software, so I got photos of both

845
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: of them, did the overlay because other people did the overlaid,

846
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: so I didn't do the overlay thing. But I have

847
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: I have photo editing software that has one one it's

848
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: got a shortcoming, but it's got one unique, nice little feature,

849
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: and that is that it will tell you the precise

850
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: location on the X and y, the X and y

851
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: plane where your cursor is any given time. So I

852
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: drew a nice little one pixel line between the pupils

853
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: of Lori's eyes, and I marked down and kept track

854
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: of the X axis coordinate for those and then I

855
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: drew a line from that line down to the end

856
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: of other nose. And I calculated that you can't with

857
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: the nose. I mean you can't not and that not no,

858
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: not on Now, I know you're gonna say that these

859
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: are photographs, they're not precise, and and there's slightly different angles.

860
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: But also had a nose job. But but you're you're not.

861
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: It can't radically change the length of your nose. You're

862
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,479
Speaker 1: not your nose occupies a specific piece of real estate

863
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 1: on your on your face. My issue with this is

864
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 1: that the two photos of Lori that we're using here

865
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 1: are from I D cards, which means that they were

866
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 1: one inch by one inch at best images that are

867
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: then blown up, so they're they're not going to because

868
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 1: God knows, somebody may have stretched that phone photo when

869
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: they put it on or compress things. So my my

870
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: point that I'm getting at is that I don't think

871
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: that we can say this is an ironclad exact photo

872
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: of her. If we had now there's photos of her

873
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: that were available of her with her husband, that I

874
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 1: would say it is a little more indicative of what

875
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: she probably truly looks like. But these I'm I'm leary

876
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: of using a I D card photo because I don't

877
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: look anything like my I D card photo. But so

878
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: the photographs have been blown up. Yeah, true, but the

879
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: basic proportions of the faces are going to be the

880
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: same in my opinion, if you look at all the

881
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: different photographs that were out that are out there. Obviously,

882
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: I calculated the ratio between the distance between the eyes

883
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 1: and the distance between the bridge and the nose and

884
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,240
Speaker 1: the end of the nose on both on both women.

885
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: So for Jennifer it was one to one point two

886
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: four and for Lori it was one to one point

887
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 1: six six. So pretty dramatic difference. Pretty dramatic difference, even

888
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: though there are slight differences in the angles of the

889
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: photos and everything that if it had been a lot

890
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 1: closer than that, I would say, hey, okay, but yeah,

891
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: that means. What that means is that is that Jennifer's

892
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: eyes are relative to the length of her nose much

893
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,919
Speaker 1: closer together. Also, if you take it out a close

894
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: look at Jennifer in that photograph, you'll see that their

895
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 1: left eye is slightly higher than her right eye, whereas

896
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: Lorie did not have that her eyes were at the

897
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 1: same level. So it's basically you're pointing out there there's

898
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: some serious flaws in the idea that Jennifer Wicktor and

899
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: Lori Slash who Jane Doe, we're the same person. I

900
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 1: doubt I don't believe it at all. Okay, I mean,

901
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. I think that there's a lot

902
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 1: that you can do with facial reconstruction surgery that you

903
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: can drastically change the way that somebody looks. But you

904
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: can't you know, make eyes different. I mean, you cannot

905
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 1: move them. You probably could, but it would be really expensive.

906
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: And you know, I just think that I agree. I

907
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: just think that it's definitely worth the look. I think

908
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: it's fascinating that there are some pretty strong coincidences. Well,

909
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 1: there are some some similarities. I mean, they have similar

910
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: jaw lines, and their their lips and the shapes of

911
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: their mouths are very similar, very similar. Yeah, there are

912
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 1: some similarities. Structure generally is fairly similar. Yeah, but generally,

913
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: but and you know the fact that they were just

914
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: appeared and reappeared about the same time, and you know,

915
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: very convenient. It's convenient. Yea, let's say that. I can

916
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: see why a lot of people are in that, but

917
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: I really don't think. Yeah, I think they're the same person. Okay,

918
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: so let's let's move away from that, move on to

919
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: another thing. We just ran down that it wasn't It

920
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 1: wasn't Jennifer Wicktor. But I was thinking that possibly she

921
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: committed committed some major crime like embezzlements. So imagine, imagine

922
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 1: she works, so you know, for god knows who, let's

923
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: assume that she was older than she claimed she was.

924
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: She was not when she said she was eighteen when

925
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:06,879
Speaker 1: she got her I D Card from Idaho. And let's

926
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: assume that she was like five or so. Yeah, and

927
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to go ahead and like stage solidly she

928
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: was not older than Yeah, probably not, but definitely not eighteen.

929
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 1: Because after all, if you're a woman, especially and you're

930
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 1: getting and you're gonna get a fake a new identity,

931
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: you're gonna shave a few years off, right, Well, yeah,

932
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 1: I mean, especially if the most convenient thing for you

933
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 1: is that that person would have been eighteen. But imagine

934
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: that she's in a job where she realizes she's in

935
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 1: a position to embezzle or steal a whole bunch of money.

936
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 1: She's got to figure out a way. She knows that

937
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: she's not going to get away with it, but she

938
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: has she has this idea. What if I get myself

939
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: all set up with a fake ID, and then I

940
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: commit the crime, whatever the crime is, whether it's murder

941
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: or stealing a whole bunch of money or whatever. Then

942
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: I commit the crime, and then I just disappear because

943
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 1: they can go they can go looking for whatever my

944
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,959
Speaker 1: name is, Jane Doe or whatever what I've disappeared because

945
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 1: I got me a new identity D. Why would you

946
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: stay in this country if you have a new I D.

947
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: Because at the time, all you had to have to

948
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 1: cross the border was a driver's license some kind of

949
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: I D cards. So why wouldn't you just take off

950
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: of the suitcase of money rather than settling in Texas? Yeah,

951
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: and I'm a disparaging Texas. I'm just it's like, why

952
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: would you just go settle in Connecticut? I mean, why

953
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,240
Speaker 1: would you just go settle in another state? Why wouldn't

954
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: you just beat feet so you don't ever have to

955
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: worry because obviously she's whatever she did, she was worried

956
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: about that catching up with her, So why why choose

957
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: that area? I The only thing I can think of

958
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 1: for that is that she just, you know, she didn't

959
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: seem like the kind of person that could just go

960
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: out and and really get into or melt into another culture,

961
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:52,280
Speaker 1: like going to South America for example, where she actually

962
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: to England. The overarching thing is we have we have

963
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 1: and she also Cuban food, so she could have gone

964
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 1: to Cuba, and she could have gone to Canada. I mean, yeah,

965
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 1: could have been from Canada. But that there is a

966
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: rabbit hole now she didn't speak with the distinctive accent.

967
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 1: She had no accent apparently. But we have an extradition

968
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: treaty with Britain then with Canada, so she would have

969
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: probably gone to Brazil or somewhere like well, but if

970
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: she had her new idea, she could have just gone

971
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: over there with her new identity, you know. I mean

972
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 1: that the thing is, if you have a brand new identity,

973
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: why even bother staying here, why not just go there

974
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: because they're not going to extradite you because they're not

975
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: gonna be able to find you. Yeah. Also, it doesn't

976
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 1: on that theory. I didn't read anything that said that

977
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: she had like gods of money. No, nothing indicated that

978
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: she was high on the hog or you did better

979
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: than she should have been for being a secret chopper,

980
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: yeah she I. Yeah, So I don't know she if

981
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: she had, it sounded to me like she had a

982
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 1: little bit of an estay. But on the other hand,

983
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: she had to go work as a stripper in the

984
00:51:55,600 --> 00:52:01,919
Speaker 1: early nineties, so that actually I I kind of went

985
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole on this story, and I'd like

986
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: to walk through that a little bit, if you guys

987
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: are okay with that. Yeah, you're not going to take

988
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: a close There's a lot of speculation that she was

989
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: from somewhere on the West coast. We've kind of deduced

990
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: that from five Washington, the Idaho thing, and the peel box,

991
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: all of this stuff. I previnced she was. Okay, Well,

992
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: there's there's a couple of things that I've I've done.

993
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time looking for her in

994
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: databases of people who were convicted of crimes and wanted

995
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: But what I came to the conclusion of, and then

996
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: I started doing some more reading, is well, we would

997
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: have had their fingerprints on file, so we would have

998
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: found her pretty quick. So I abandoned that. But then

999
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 1: that got me thinking to a couple of ways, which

1000
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: is in the mid eighties, somewhere in that range, there

1001
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: was a cup cup a number of different things that happened.

1002
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: There were protests that went wrong, so there were like

1003
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 1: nuclear protests that suddenly turned violent and people died. There

1004
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: was eco terrorism and protests that happened that suddenly turned

1005
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 1: violent and people were hurt and killed. So I'm thinking, well,

1006
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: and and it makes me think of have either of

1007
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: you ever read the book The Monkey Wrench Gang it's

1008
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: by Edward Abbey, and then he does another follow up

1009
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: book called Hey Duke Lives, which is based on a anyway.

1010
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: It's about a group of eco terrors who have to

1011
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 1: they try to hide themselves and regardless, it makes me

1012
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 1: think of that. So I could see her being, oh, hell,

1013
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: that went really bad, and I'm going to be on

1014
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 1: the hook for it. So she hasn't been prosecuted, she

1015
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: hasn't even been arrested. She just knows that she's going

1016
00:53:56,040 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: to the clink, so it's time to hide. I also

1017
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: then started going down the rabbit hole of Okay, well,

1018
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: she got her new identity, and she got her new breasts,

1019
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: and then she started stripping because that's an easy way

1020
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 1: to make money and you don't have to provide a

1021
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,240
Speaker 1: lot of I d to be a stripper. Well okay,

1022
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: well why would you do that? What would And and

1023
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 1: I kind of I ran these weird threads and I

1024
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: won't tie them all together. But you know, the Idaho

1025
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: thing I kind of briefly mentioned her I started to

1026
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 1: go to earlier was there was a lot of supremacy

1027
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: movements in the eighties. Um, and these are also tied

1028
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 1: to uh, you know, there's a book I read recently

1029
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,399
Speaker 1: that I was telling Joe about. I think I told

1030
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:46,720
Speaker 1: Devon about the Turner Diaries, and part of the Turner

1031
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 1: Diaries is based on a supremacy movement that happened at

1032
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: the time that then turned into crime, So she could

1033
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:58,240
Speaker 1: have been involved in that. Realized everybody's gonna get cleaned

1034
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 1: out because they're robbing banks now or stuff like that,

1035
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: and the only way I know to get away is

1036
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 1: just to completely disappear. But then that that's that's the

1037
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: reason I looked at it went well, no wonder she

1038
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: was stripping, she got an ID card, she didn't have

1039
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 1: a sout security card. But all you gotta do when

1040
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:19,359
Speaker 1: you go to a strip club owner at that day

1041
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: and age, I imagine to say, hey, look at my card,

1042
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: I'm over eighteen. Can I take my clothes off and

1043
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: will you give me money? Yes. The thing about it

1044
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: is if you're involved in the in the white supremacist

1045
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: movement and there's violence going on and everything, and you

1046
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: don't agree with it and you want out, there's a

1047
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: really easy thing to do, and that is you go

1048
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,359
Speaker 1: to the FBI. You inform on them, and they put

1049
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: you in the witness protection program that's expecting that you're

1050
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 1: not going to get tracked out. I mean the white

1051
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: supremacy movement. I equate it to kind of like the mob.

1052
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: They have feelers everywhere and there, you know, it's like

1053
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: the old school mob. Oh euratus is out, Oh hey

1054
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: we found you. We're not gonna say anything. Our guy,

1055
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: we paid him a hundred grant and he's gonna walk

1056
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 1: away from the hotel room and the maid's gonna find

1057
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 1: you hanging in the shower, and you know, there's serious

1058
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,839
Speaker 1: fear when it comes to being dealing with those kind

1059
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: of organizations that I can see that the person goes

1060
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: you know what my option is, I hope it works

1061
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: out for the best, or just freaking disappear. Yeah. But

1062
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: the thing about it is is, you know, I would

1063
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: I would be if I were if I were Jane Doe,

1064
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:28,720
Speaker 1: I'd be looking at, say, you know, probably the witness

1065
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: Protection program. They probably know what they're doing as far

1066
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 1: as making me disappear, and they'll probably see to it

1067
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 1: that I have a little more comforts along the way,

1068
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: and I won't entirely be on my own broke. I'll

1069
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: you know, I'll have the FEDS there to provide me

1070
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: with at least, if not an income, at least job

1071
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: opportunities and stuff like that. Maybe she was in the

1072
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 1: witness Protection program and she decided it wasn't enough, so

1073
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: she decided to disappear from the witness protection program. Yeah.

1074
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 1: Some some agents says, oh yeah, well, you know occasionally

1075
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: what people do is they do this and she's like,

1076
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: oh really, well, let me start going through. Well, I

1077
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 1: got nothing to do in this hotel room. Can I

1078
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: Can I go down the local library and just look

1079
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: through the books and look through the newspaper section. That

1080
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,800
Speaker 1: could completely be I mean, this is again, as we

1081
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: do with so many of these random rabbit hole theories,

1082
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: as we stitched so many things together. But that's that's

1083
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: the thing that makes me wonder about her. Because the

1084
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: breast implants, I know, that is something that people talk

1085
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 1: about as they say, well, implants always have serial number,

1086
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 1: so let's get the serial number. Well that and she

1087
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: got them under her her newest identity, so that doesn't

1088
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:41,959
Speaker 1: lead anywhere. So I mean, she's for all things said

1089
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 1: and done, she was really really good at what she did,

1090
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: which was hiding who she was. Yeah, she did a

1091
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 1: good job of it. Although again I don't I don't

1092
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: think it's rocket science. She but she was pretty thorough

1093
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: about the whole thing, and as far as serious go,

1094
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: I have one last theory. We so as we know,

1095
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: she was a little bit erratic. She kind of marched

1096
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 1: to a different drummer. So I could see where she

1097
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: might get an idea that maybe life wasn't that great.

1098
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't hell on Earth. She didn't have

1099
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 1: it wasn't fleeing a cult, didn't have abusive parents or

1100
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: anything like that. But life wasn't that thrilling for her,

1101
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,439
Speaker 1: And she thought to herself, you know, you know, maybe

1102
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:26,439
Speaker 1: if I changed my identity and move somewhere else, I'll

1103
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: become a whole new meet. So it's not just as

1104
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: I have a new name and a new location, I'll like,

1105
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: you know, turn into a different, cooler and more exciting

1106
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: person by just by the by having done this. Now

1107
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 1: I realized that sounds stupid, but at the same time,

1108
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: thank you, because I didn't know how to put it

1109
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 1: that that doesn't make any sense to me? Well yeah,

1110
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: but I mean, how many times have you seen people

1111
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 1: do things that don't make any sense? I know? I mean,

1112
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 1: so I'm just saying that's a possibility that she might

1113
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: have really thought, I'm unhappy in my present life and

1114
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: not wing a cult or or a white supremacist gang,

1115
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 1: but I'm unhappy and maybe if I just changed my

1116
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: name and move somewhere else, things will get better and

1117
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 1: I'll be a happier person. It didn't really work out

1118
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: that way for but again, and that's just one more theory,

1119
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 1: and really it's probably not the best one, but what

1120
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: the hell? One more theory, right, But it's not gonna help. Yeah,

1121
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:23,479
Speaker 1: and also there's of course, she was fleeing the troop

1122
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: of Cobra, aren't we yea? He really is the chip

1123
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 1: Copra has really kind of reared his ugly little head again. Yeah,

1124
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: flapping those little bat wings. Yeah, so you guys have

1125
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 1: any more thoughts, any more theories? Um? No, other than

1126
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that I'm probably in trouble because I've

1127
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 1: been scouring the FBI websites lately because of this case

1128
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: and all kinds of escaped convict websites, and I'm pretty

1129
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: sure that I've probably gotten flagged and I was probably

1130
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 1: being watched forever. Yeah, what do you bought? And what

1131
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: you bought? The Turner Die used to read them that

1132
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 1: you pay with a credit card. Actually, yeah, you're on

1133
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 1: watch list for that one, dude. Yeah, yeah, you should

1134
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: have paid cash. Yeah. Well, anyway, um, if you happen

1135
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: to know Jane Doe and as a child, we'd like

1136
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 1: to hear from you. Maybe you lived in Fife and

1137
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: you remember the people who got killed in the in

1138
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:19,919
Speaker 1: the house fire, and you remember some little girls saying

1139
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: one of these days, I'm gonna steal her identity. We'd

1140
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: really love to hear from you. Other than that, that's

1141
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 1: about the end of it all. Let me give you

1142
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: some information that you're dying to hear. If you want

1143
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: to find us on iTunes and download us, of course

1144
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 1: can do that. We would appreciate it if you'd leave

1145
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 1: a comment in a review, that would be awesome. If

1146
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 1: you don't have time to download us, you can always

1147
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: find us on Stitcher and stream us. And by the way,

1148
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: it just as in the side if you were having

1149
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 1: a few problems with Stitcher these days, so don't hold

1150
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 1: it against us. We're trying to get it fixed. We're

1151
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 1: also on Facebook, so find us on Facebook, friend us,

1152
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: make comments, send us money, but don't We also have

1153
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: a Facebook like group. We got a group and got

1154
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: the page. Yeah, we're having fun to people are posting

1155
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 1: stuff there, so that's always good. Yeah. Also there's there's

1156
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: our website, which is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. You

1157
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 1: can find our episodes there and download them and we'll

1158
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 1: have links for you to look at and all sorts

1159
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 1: of cool stuff. And last of all, if you want

1160
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 1: to send us an email and communicate with us that way,

1161
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 1: then we're at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com.

1162
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 1: Am I missing anything? No, you hit it? I think

1163
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: you hit it? Oh yeah, Twitter, Sorry three weeks now

1164
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: and we still yeah yeah, yeah, I knew I was

1165
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: missing something. Yeah, so we're on Twitter, so find us

1166
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 1: on Twitter, friend us or something. However that Twitter comment

1167
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: narrating whatever you're yeah, because Twitter has a character limit

1168
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 1: and we couldn't do the s is that what happened?

1169
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: So we're thinking Sideway. I'm gonna come up with something

1170
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: more clever. Why don't you do thinking sideways Thinking Sideways?

1171
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: There you go, there you go. We're here to change.

1172
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 1: I look for us outing to the handle thinking Sideways.

1173
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 1: All right, that's it until next week to Loue. Thanks everybody,

1174
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 1: Bye guys