WEBVTT - Tesla Regret Doesn't Move Markets, Banks Try to Offload Twitter Debt 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:09.160 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.240 Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:18.360 More than half the satellites in space are owned and 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:20.200 controlled by one man. 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:22.680 Well, he's a legitimate super genius. 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:23.799 I mean legitimate. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:26.640 He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:27.440 it will be different. 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:28.440 He'll vote Republican. 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.200 There is a reason the US government is so reliant 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:31.600 on him. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.839 Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:49.479 Anything he does, he's fascinating people. Welcome to Eylan Ink, 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:54.000 Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday, January twenty eighth. 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:58.600 I'm your host, David Papadopolis. It's Tesla Earnings Week, people, 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:02.639 which means, of course, earnings bingo. You know that, get 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.880 out your popcorn. But it'll also give us a fresh 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.280 window into the financials of a company that is absolutely 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.959 taken off in the stock market since Trump's selection. So 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.360 the question is are the fundamentals catching up to these 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.399 growing expectations of what Tesla can be in the Trump 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.880 era or are they falling further behind. We'll dive into 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:25.800 those numbers with our regulars here, Max Chafkin and Dana Hull. 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:26.959 Hello to you both. 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.399 Happy almost earnings day, David, and. 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:32.639 Happy earnings day to you Max. Dana, Hello, Hello, Hello, 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:36.959 and we have our global autos are beaming in from London. 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:38.760 Craig Trudell. Craig, Hello, sir. 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:39.560 Thanks for having me. 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:41.959 Then we're going to talk about Muskin is Wall Street 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:46.480 bankers who suddenly and finally see an opportunity to unload 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:49.360 the thirteen billion dollars of loans they doled out the 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:53.960 finance's purchase of Twitter. After two years, the stars seem 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.240 a ligne to make a sale happen, unless that is 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.680 the out of the blue emergence of deep seek scuttles 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.120 the whole thing. We'll talk about all that with one 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:06.040 of our top Wall Street reporters, Shredar Naderjan Okay, Dan, 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:10.639 I start with you, though tomorrow is Tesla earnings Day. 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.080 Remind us what we know so far in terms of 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.360 how the fourth quarter went for Tesla and what you're 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.600 going to be looking for the most in the numbers 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:22.880 that come out and in the conference call that follows 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:23.359 the release. 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:26.720 So Tesla earnings, we know how many cars the company 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.120 delivered in the fourth quarter. We know that for the year, 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.280 sales were down roughly one percent, and so the big 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.160 thing for earnings is the growth outlook, And you know, 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:37.160 Elon Musk is going to do whatever he can to 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.760 kind of take control of the narrative and promise Wall 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.720 Street that everything is great, that they are making progress 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:46.399 with FSD, that the Model Y Refresh is happening, And 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.080 this is going to be the first call since Donald 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.000 Trump was elected, and so I expect there's going to 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:55.280 be a lot of questions about Doge, about tariffs, about 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:57.840 you know, is Tesla ever going to build a Mexico 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.080 plan or not, And so it's really more about the 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:01.520 call than the numbers itself. 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.400 Right by the way, just for the record, my bet 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.600 on the Mexico plant is we never see that, at 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:12.120 least not over the next four years. Craig Danna mentions 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.720 the Model Why Refresh, which reminds me, I don't know 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:17.960 that we've talked about it on this show. Tell us 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.880 a bit about it and how high expectations are for 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:24.880 it in terms of driving sales of Tesla's top model. 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.440 So I guess the first thing to start with is 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.440 the look of it on the exterior. It's got a 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:33.760 sort of cyber truck like face. It's got a light 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:38.640 bar running across the front, very similar to the cyber truck. Otherwise, 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.040 there's honestly not that much to say about it. I mean, 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.280 there's in the rear seat you now have a screen, 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:45.680 you know, along with the screen that you know, folks 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.160 are used to up in the front row. There's some 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.839 interior changes in terms of, you know, number of speakers. 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.120 They kept a turn signal stock which they took out 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.400 of the Model three when they refresh that, and Tesla 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:03.480 owners didn't particularly care for that, you know that. I mean, 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.680 that's the sort of level of of you know, lack 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:09.560 of newness that actually. 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.840 So it's it's pretty it's pretty minor stuff. So you 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:14.760 don't seem to expect necessarily that that refresh is going 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.760 to make an enormous difference. But tell us what you're 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.800 most looking for tomorrow in these numbers and in the 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:21.640 call that follows. 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:23.960 Yeah, I mean, I think I agree with Dana that 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.240 the outlook is going to be what's most important. But 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.080 I also think that it will be interesting to see, 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.760 you know, just how much of a of a you know, 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.640 hit they potentially took in the fourth quarter, they did 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:38.120 deliver more evs than in any quarter than they ever have, 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.080 but they really pulled out all the stops to get there. 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:44.040 So you know, they did you know, big discounts, they 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.120 had you know cut rate loan and lease offers, they 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.640 had you know, free charging deals, and so you know 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.520 how much did they sort of need to give away 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.159 in terms of you know, profitability to get a result 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:59.880 that honestly was a bit disappointing even for for Tesla. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.440 Think they you know, guided to this idea that they 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:04.840 would be able to grow for the year, and as 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.680 Dana mentioned, they actually ended up even despite all of 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:11.440 those you know, promotions and efforts, actually having a down 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:13.280 year for the first time in more than a decade. 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:15.160 Craig, not to belabor the point, but just give us, 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:19.039 give our listeners a cent. So, when margins were at 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:23.760 their highest and just spectacular for Tesla, a standout in 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.760 the auto industry, what exactly were they and where are 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:29.760 they now? What do folks expect for the fourth quarter? 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:33.320 Yeah, I mean during the pandemic, I think we saw, 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:37.080 you know, across the industry this huge run up in margins, 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.320 and so you know, we saw for everybody you know, 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.880 a big you know bump in terms of you know, 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:46.920 they had plenty of demand but not enough supply. And 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.960 so for for Tesla, we were seeing you know, more 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.800 than twenty percent margins on a quarterly basis of you 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.599 know for some time, and that was as sort of 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.200 as good as it gets aside from you know, a 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:01.440 brand like a Ferrari, right, and so we've seen now 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:05.599 that come back down into you know, into the double 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:09.840 digits still, but in terms of having profit margins more 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.360 in line with what you would expect to see from 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.719 other carmakers you know, in the past, at that margin 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.520 used to be much better than their Detroit competitors. 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:24.400 You know, Max. This company is and I'm not saying 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.680 this just because we're doing this podcast, you know, but 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.560 it really is one of the most fascinating stocks out 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.479 there right now, and fascinating companies right now, because the 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:37.280 stock is still even after a recent selloff, up like crazy. 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.359 It's up more than fifty percent since Trump was elected. 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.080 But the sales numbers, as these guys are saying, are 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:47.160 just margins are shrinking. And there's this growing sense out 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.360 there that the more Elon gets involved in politics, the 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.719 more he's alienating a big chunk of his potential customers. So, 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:58.200 you know, unless this dream and this vision of the 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:02.240 robotaxi and the AI future comes to pass, I don't 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:04.080 know that the math gets tricky. 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.599 So like with Tesla, and I think this is true 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:10.240 about basically all of Musk's companies. You have kind of 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:14.320 like the business and the story and at times they've 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:17.200 been kind of pointing in the same direction, and at 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.520 times they've kind of diverged over the course of the 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.080 company's life. And you know, since we've been doing this 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.440 podcast for like two years, almost the business of Tesla 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:26.640 has been kind of the same. 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:27.760 You have an. 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.119 Aging product line that people are not that excited about. 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.040 Craig mentioned the refresh of the Model three, which I 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.200 don't know if we've actually ever mentioned that on this podcast. 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:39.400 Maybe we have and I've just forgotten it. But like, 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.360 they went and refreshed the Model three, and it doesn't 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:43.720 seem to have made a huge difference, or if it 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.280 did make a difference, it was you know, helping from 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.520 a place of weakness. The growth story that you're hitting 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:53.880 on the AI robotaxi. Somehow Trump's gonna do something amazing. 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.400 He's going to bring the good vibes back or whatever. 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:58.800 He has a lot of ways to go on the 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.280 Ernie's call to do that, and I think he will try. Right, 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:06.080 He's going to try to talk about robotaxis and the 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.440 potential for the regulatory environment to change. The problem is, 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:12.760 of course, you need an actual working robotaxi to be 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.520 able to take advantage of a favorable regulatory environment, which 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.000 is not clear they have. And then the other problem 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.800 is there are sort of headwinds or whatever you want 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:22.200 to call it, you know, sort of blowing in the 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.240 face of this story. One of them is that we've 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.760 seen a sudden kind of correction in AI, so like 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.079 we have investors reacting to the release of this Chinese 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.880 large language model Deep Seek and suddenly devaluing a bunch 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.360 of AI stocks. That potentially hurts, you know, the AI 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:41.440 story that Elon Musk is going to try to tell. 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:44.240 And the other thing is these regulatory credits, which has 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.520 been a big source of Tesla's profit, as well as 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.199 the tax subsidies. Trump in an executive order has basically 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:50.840 said he's gonna get He's gonna get rid of these 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.679 or at least begin considering getting rid of these which 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:57.000 arguably would hurt other EV companies more than it would 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.120 hurt Tesla, but it will also hurt Tesla. 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.040 I noticed that, I mean Tesla when the deep Seek 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.559 news came out yesterday and much of the tech complex 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.800 absolutely collapse. I mean in Nvidia, you know fell I 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:13.560 don't know fifteen percent or something like that. Tesla didn't 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:18.000 move that much. But it does strike me that if 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.880 Deep Seek was something of China spot Nick moment in 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:26.560 terms of AI, there could be a potential warning sign 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:30.040 there for Tesla and its plans going forward. 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:32.960 Yeah, I think that's right, and I do think that 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:35.480 Tesla did sort of take it on the chin. It 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.800 was certainly no Navidia in terms of how much of 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.200 a hit they took yesterday, But they too, you know, 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.480 did have a rough day in the market, along with 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.200 a lot of other companies. I do think that, you know, 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.800 to Max's point, you know, we've also just generally seen 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:55.480 challenges that companies that have gotten much further in actually 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:59.880 commercializing robotaxis. We've seen a major player in that field 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.560 already fall by the wayside, right and GM's you know, Cruse, 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.280 and today they're out with their earnings and sort of 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.079 beating their chests about the fact that they're going to 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.600 lose a whole heck of a lot less money on 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:14.320 that business that they've decided to just fold in into 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.200 the car company. They're happy about that. So I think 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:19.600 we've also seen, you know, companies that didn't get so 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:23.319 far as Cruise fold I'm thinking rg AI, which Volkswagen 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:27.319 and Ford acquired. We've seen some people start to commercialize 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:31.120 the robotaxi business, but nobody's making any money, so it 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.520 remains to be seen how anybody's going to actually earn 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:35.160 anything here. 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:37.320 Yeah, I think one of the big questions that investors 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.160 are hopefully going to ask is, you know, the Trump 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.360 administration has alluded to this idea that they're going to 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.200 have a federal framework for AVE, so rather than this 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:47.679 patchwork of state regulations, there could be sort of a 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.960 federal framework that would make it easier for Elon to 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:54.680 get his robotaxi approved. So if anyone asks Elon about that, 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:56.440 I mean he could say, oh, yeah, like I was 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:58.640 just talking to Emil Michael and blah blah blah. I mean, 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.680 he is part of the govern now, and there's a 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.040 reason why he donated so many millions of dollars to Trump. 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.560 There are things on his ask list, and so av 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.320 regulation or lack thereof is one of them, and so 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:13.200 I think that's going to be a big part of 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:14.280 the call tomorrow as well. 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:16.880 One thing, aren't they supposed to have an affordable car 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.640 like now, Craig, weren't we promised to twenty five thousand 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:21.920 dollars car? Like shouldn't this whole podcast just be like, 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:23.800 when's the twenty five thousand dollars car coming? 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:28.360 My best guess to that is is it's never coming. 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:30.640 And the only way I could see, you know, some 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:34.360 potential for them actually making good on that is actually 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.640 sticking a steering wheel in that cyber cap that they 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.760 showed a few months back and selling it as a 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.000 human driven car for some time. Maybe they could make 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.160 that sort of you know, smaller sized car at least, 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.320 you know, closer to that price point. But I think 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.520 from what we've sort of gathered over the last year, 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:57.280 it looks like that's been abandoned for self driving purposes. 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:04.840 Craig. I wanted to go back, though, for a second, 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:10.119 to the topic of how Musk's politics are alienating potentially 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.840 a chunk of his customers. We have seen signs of 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:19.280 late of resistance of sorts or to the company and 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.600 people lashing out at the company and its products. And 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.439 you guys also had an interview with a Tesla rival 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:27.800 where he spoke to this topic. Tell us a little 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:28.319 bit about that. 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.720 Yeah, we met with the CEO of Polestar, which you know, 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.920 of course, any company that is trying to compete with 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.800 Tesla is you know, of course incentivized to talk about, 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.480 you know, ways in which they could potentially benefit from 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.920 any setbacks at their rival. But I did find this 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.679 conversation with Michael Loschler, that the relatively new CEO of Polestar, 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.400 really interesting because he's German and as we know, you know, 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.600 Elon has been inserting himself in German politics to this 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:00.400 really significant degree and throwing his weight beyond the a 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.440 f D, which is, you know, a far right party 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.600 in Germany with a lot of skeletons in its closet. 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.600 And he said in no uncertain terms that you know, 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:13.480 the way that Musk has inserted himself into the sort 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:18.480 of political conversation in Germany is unacceptable and is not 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:21.200 going to fly. And you know, I think that we've 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.000 seen some indications that you know, he's he's right to 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:29.240 say that. We've seen protesters project the emotion that Musk 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.960 made at last week's Trump event that you know, people 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.760 saw as a sort of Roman salute, you know, that 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:41.440 projected onto Tesla's factory outside Berlin with the words kile Tesla. 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.200 We've seen in Poland, which you know, this week is 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.800 commemorating eighty years since Auschwitz. You know, a minister call 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.960 for a boycott against the company. We've seen you know, 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:56.000 vandalized cyber trucks in the Bay Area, and just this 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.160 morning I saw something about, you know, a store in 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.720 Seattle that was tagged with you know, references to Hitler 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:02.120 and so. 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.000 Yeah, I know that vandalized storn Seattle really jumped out. 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.800 I mean it was the language that was sprayed on 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:12.559 the window was aggressive, Nazi scum golf. Well, and that's 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:13.000 what it says. 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:14.240 Well, you know, we can get to this, maybe we 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.600 talk about X, but like we're seeing a lot the 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:21.480 backlash has been much much more pronounced since the quote 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:25.600 unquote awkward gesture. You know, we've seen Reddit, lots of 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.680 boards on Reddit spanning X links like and you're just 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.120 seeing like it's more than just like a bumper sticker 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:33.760 or two. You're seeing more people pushing against it. On 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.680 the other hand, of course, like America's polarized country. You 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:38.280 know a lot of Tesla sales. 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.640 Or something, but it's not just America, it's the world, 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:41.840 Yes is pointing out. 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:43.680 It definitely seems like this is going to be bad 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.360 for business in Europe. It does seem like Tesla sales 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:49.680 have suffered from Elon Musk's political turn. I don't think 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:51.560 we know yet just how much. 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:53.560 Yeah, I mean, and Dan, I know I've already got 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:55.800 you in my year saying, oh, you know that that's 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:58.720 anecdotal evidence. You know, I won't show it to me 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:01.440 in the macro numbers. Given that there are some people 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.400 who feel so strongly about it that they're willing to 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:09.000 go out and vandalize private property in multiple countries, is 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:14.960 that not a window into a broader sentiment among a 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:19.960 much larger percentage of potential Tesla customers who you are 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:20.720 driving away. 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:24.920 Listen, there's no question that Elon's politics are hurting sales. 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.600 I think that's irrefutable, But there's no hard data that 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:34.440 ties the two together. Because people don't buy Tesla's for 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:36.520 any number of reasons. And like you know the person 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.040 who went out and spray painted a Nazi scum on 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.400 a store, Like do they own a Tesla? Were they 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.400 about to buy a Tesla and then they weren't. Like 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.160 a lot of this is like performative outrage, and I 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.480 mean I get it, Like the outrage is real, but 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.280 like it's the same thing of like everyone's saying they're 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.680 going to move to Canada if Trump is reelected. These 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.320 are not people who necessarily owned a car or were 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.320 in the market for a car like so and like 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.360 I see the same thing. Like all there's lots of 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:04.440 people that are like, oh my god, I know I'm 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.120 embarrassed to drive my Tesla and it's like, well you're 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:09.520 still but you're still driving it. And like the biggest 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.880 thing is the stock. Like if you're so upset about 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.840 Elon and his and his behavior, then sell the stock. 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:21.160 Like like the biggest example is California's pension fund is 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.480 a huge shareholder of Tesla. They have sold off their 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:25.600 position a bit, but they are still like a top holder. 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.400 So I'm not like a big fan of like this 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:32.960 performative outrage. Like if people were really upset the stock 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.400 valuation would not be as high as it is, and 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.600 the fact that the stock has remained so high despite 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:42.440 all of his shenanigans over the past six months is 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.880 really telling. So I think you know, you will continue 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.400 to see Tesla lose market share in states like California, 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.680 you will continue to see brand erosion, and like you know, 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:56.800 surveys about the value of the brand erode. But Elon 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.240 is a financial engineer, and as long as that stock 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.320 price stays hi, he is going to be fine. And 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.760 like no analyst on Wall Street is calling out this. 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.040 No, no, Dana. That's a good point. But I will 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.480 I will note that in speaking with Esha Day, our 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.080 Tesla stock reporter this morning, she did say to me 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.600 that she and her conversations with analysts that they at 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:18.680 least they are bringing it up more with her than 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:20.639 they ever have before in the past. Perhaps not to 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.000 the point indeed of penning it into notes, but there 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:24.120 at least it's something that can. 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.520 Because they're afraid. So if you, if you really care, 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:27.360 then put it in a. 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.600 Note, put it in Wall Street, put it in a note. 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:31.080 Otherwise we don't want to hear about it. 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.080 Max tell Us Bingo about being I mean, you know, 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.359 the best time of the year. We have huge news 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:42.640 here in elin Klan tell us Bloomberg Terminal subscribers. I'm 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.680 sure that most of our listeners already subscribe to the 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:49.359 Bloomberg Terminal can now play Bingo on their terminal and 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:50.199 it's interactive. 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.359 You have there's a leaderboard. The card will change. We 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.399 are very Dana and I are very excited about there. 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.200 There's a leaderboard wayman, so everyone's not getting the same 0:17:59.240 --> 0:17:59.960 card anymore. 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:01.720 You got a different car gives its shuffled. 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.280 We have we have, we have, we have iterated our 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.960 product and it is soft launch. 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:10.840 This is all human labor as far as I know. 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:12.919 But but we are very excited. 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:14.480 About it and to you by deep seek. 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:16.880 I do think that like this is really just from 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:21.760 a pure Bingo perspective, leaving out politics or money. Just 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.920 like the question of how trumpy does this earnings call 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.040 get to me is like it will be interesting. We've 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:31.040 got a few trumpy categories on the Bingo cards. Some 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:36.840 i'd say some reaches. First Buddy Greenland are both potential squares. 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.080 All right, So you like First Buddy as a Bingo 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.879 as a Bingo square. You also like Greenland Fun Dana, 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:44.840 what are your favorite squares out there? 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:45.760 Oh? 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.600 Deep Seek, Come on, this is gonna be all about 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:53.040 I mean, I'm waiting for you Deep China questions, Deep Seek, 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:57.280 cybercab Tariffs. Let's go Geo, I want, I want full 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:58.560 on geopolitical Elon. 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:03.399 You all can still download the card, and this is 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.600 for those who are not Bloomberg terminal subscribers. That's small 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.720 universe out there. You can download it at Bloomberg dot 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:14.280 com backslash Elon Inc. And play with everyone here. 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:16.280 The terminal handle b NNGO. 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:16.800 Go. 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:20.360 By the way, no I b n g O. Isn't 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.320 that what I said? I'm just just for emphasis, right, 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.840 Craig Trudell Dan out. We say goodbye to you, but 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:30.600 enjoy Bingo, enjoy the earnings, and we'll talk next week. 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:32.000 Thank you, Thanks much. 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:39.000 Okay, Max and I are now joined by shred Ar Nadaijan, 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.280 one of our crack Wall Street reporters. Here, Shri, Hello, 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.240 welcome to the show. Hello. Now listen, Max. Shre's got 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:47.600 this story that he likes to periodically through out there 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:49.280 that I just want to just debunk from the get go. 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.040 He alleges that at some point in early on his career, 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:54.000 I tried to fire him. That's not true, because had 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:58.480 I tried to fire him, he wouldn't be here today. 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:02.200 But Shre is a non mitigated superstar. And that's why 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:03.120 we have used. 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:04.720 To believe this story because it's funny. 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.600 True, it is not, it's bold, all right, So Shre, 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:14.920 We're going to talk about Musk and his bankers and 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:19.560 his acquisition of Twitter for our listeners out there who've 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.960 forgotten a bit about this, which may be a number 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:24.440 of them. Not they haven't certainly haven't forgotten about Twitter 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.240 or X, but they've forgotten about, perhaps about the way 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:29.880