1
00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,760
Speaker 1: Just the arrogance of Lizzie Maulder. It made it easier

2
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:08,920
Speaker 1: for me to go after her because I just didn't

3
00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:14,880
Speaker 1: like her. In May, authorities are piecing together the spectacular

4
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,200
Speaker 1: cons of Laguna Beach c p A. Lizzie Mulder. When

5
00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,440
Speaker 1: all was said and done, how much money did she

6
00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:27,320
Speaker 1: get from you? But years before Lizzie scams that Newport

7
00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,880
Speaker 1: Beach salon, she starts doing the books for Jack Wines

8
00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,880
Speaker 1: in Napa Valley. She was a big part of helping

9
00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,920
Speaker 1: me get organized when I started the wine business. And

10
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,480
Speaker 1: when Jay Avery checks himself into rehab for a prescription

11
00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,199
Speaker 1: pain pill addiction, Lizzie Maulder takes the reins of his

12
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,880
Speaker 1: wine company, and what she does next almost drives Jay

13
00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 1: to the brink. I got to a place to where

14
00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,840
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if I really wanted to continue moving

15
00:00:54,920 --> 00:01:09,920
Speaker 1: forward with life. I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen

16
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:15,960
Speaker 1: of the con The O C Savior Episode three, Grapes

17
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:28,360
Speaker 1: of Wrath. Me and my partner, close friend May Alex.

18
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,200
Speaker 1: We would lend the wine and then we go out

19
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,160
Speaker 1: and sell it, just door to door. Basically, Jay Avery

20
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,760
Speaker 1: starts Jack Wines in Napa Valley back in two thousand

21
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,760
Speaker 1: nine and he's doing really well and it started to

22
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,920
Speaker 1: get bigger than we had direct to consumer, which was online,

23
00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,440
Speaker 1: and that's when I decided to hire Lizzie to help

24
00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,840
Speaker 1: manage to drect to consumer. And the relationship started as

25
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,240
Speaker 1: she was just kind of helping me do the accounts,

26
00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,400
Speaker 1: payable and receivable and managing the book so paying for

27
00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,280
Speaker 1: the foil of the cork, the bottles ship being as

28
00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,120
Speaker 1: well as uh storage. So I delegated a lot of

29
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,320
Speaker 1: that to her. And when you started the wine business

30
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,000
Speaker 1: and you hired Lizzie and she starts helping you do stuff,

31
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,600
Speaker 1: you know, run the finances. What stage of your addiction

32
00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,079
Speaker 1: are you at. I'm not even full till yet. I'm

33
00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:24,120
Speaker 1: highly functioning. But I met her in oh nine and

34
00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 1: it didn't get really bad until the middle of two

35
00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,480
Speaker 1: thousand eleven until that went stop treat me. So at

36
00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,080
Speaker 1: this point, you're running a business and Lizzie appears to

37
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,880
Speaker 1: be not only helping you with your wine business, but

38
00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,080
Speaker 1: helping you recover, like helping you with your addiction. Yeah.

39
00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,359
Speaker 1: So when I was getting sober, her brother passed away

40
00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,520
Speaker 1: from a heroin overdose and he was also an opiate addict,

41
00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,840
Speaker 1: and she told me, you know, to get sober and

42
00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,080
Speaker 1: not to die on her too. Those were her zact words.

43
00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:57,400
Speaker 1: M Lizzie Mulder becomes like a sister to Jay. They

44
00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,800
Speaker 1: spend Christmas Is and Thanksgivings together. So when Jay checks

45
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,880
Speaker 1: himself into rehab, Lizzie's got us back. And at that

46
00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,000
Speaker 1: point I needed to pay a bunch of bills and

47
00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,639
Speaker 1: do a bunch of stuff for the business and detox

48
00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,160
Speaker 1: in Utah. And then they wouldn't allow me adequate time

49
00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:15,799
Speaker 1: on the computer to get done, and I needed to

50
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,040
Speaker 1: get done. They asked me if I had somebody that

51
00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,440
Speaker 1: could help me in this process, and they took me

52
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,040
Speaker 1: down to Wells Fargo and I made her a signer

53
00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,240
Speaker 1: on the account and I gave her signing authority. So

54
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,360
Speaker 1: whild Jay is in rehab, Lizzie takes full control of

55
00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,280
Speaker 1: Jack Wines and seems to be doing a fantastic job

56
00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,880
Speaker 1: bottling wine, doing the books, paying vendors, and paying the

57
00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:46,640
Speaker 1: company's taxes. Production actually ticks up under Lizzie's leadership. Jay

58
00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,320
Speaker 1: Avery and his wife Marla are relieved. And when I

59
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,440
Speaker 1: got out, I really wanted to stay healthy and stay

60
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,040
Speaker 1: active in my recovery and not have to focus on

61
00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,320
Speaker 1: some of that stuff. So I just let her run

62
00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,000
Speaker 1: with it until I got healthy, and then it seemed

63
00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:03,800
Speaker 1: like she was doing a good job, so I didn't

64
00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:09,840
Speaker 1: change anything in the In the short term, she was

65
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,680
Speaker 1: also like giving him a lot of hope with investors

66
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,279
Speaker 1: in these grandiose ideas of where the winery would go.

67
00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,040
Speaker 1: So not only is Lizzie doing a great job running

68
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 1: Jack Wines, but she's also courting new investors out of

69
00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,960
Speaker 1: China who have millions of dollars they potentially want to

70
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,200
Speaker 1: invest in Jay's company. She said she had sent an

71
00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,279
Speaker 1: email to a company that helps young wineries grow and

72
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,920
Speaker 1: go global, right, and depending if the products any good

73
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,080
Speaker 1: and if we have marketing behind us, but they would

74
00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,919
Speaker 1: give us marketing dollars, they would help us find distribution.

75
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,960
Speaker 1: But they needed more vidols, right, So we did a

76
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,680
Speaker 1: cabin a chardonnay. It was a high end wine, but

77
00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:54,480
Speaker 1: we were going to make a couple of lower end

78
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,920
Speaker 1: products that we could do volume but keep the high

79
00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 1: end as well. So I had to make samples that

80
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,200
Speaker 1: had to get bottles. I had to come up with labels.

81
00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,159
Speaker 1: I mean, it was a process and at the time,

82
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:05,960
Speaker 1: I had the money to do it, So I said,

83
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,719
Speaker 1: you know what I disc could potentially helped this brand

84
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,600
Speaker 1: grow exponentially. This sounds like a good opportunity. So I said, Okay,

85
00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,640
Speaker 1: let's go forward. Let's examples, let's get bottles, Let's maybe

86
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,159
Speaker 1: do new labels, you know, the foil of the cork.

87
00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,360
Speaker 1: I wanted to do a certain kind of cork. I mean,

88
00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,640
Speaker 1: there was all sorts of stuff that we wanted to do,

89
00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,919
Speaker 1: the adding little bells and whistles that created you know,

90
00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,960
Speaker 1: a better buzz around the name and better marketing. So

91
00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,640
Speaker 1: the process was she told me about it. I talked

92
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,680
Speaker 1: to Brent Harrison. Brent Harrison gave me a list of

93
00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,840
Speaker 1: action items I needed to do for them to be

94
00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:44,880
Speaker 1: satisfied and investing into our company. Brent Harrison is the

95
00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:49,240
Speaker 1: liaison for a huge Chinese wine conglomerate, the Wine Trust.

96
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,160
Speaker 1: They're excited to invest millions of dollars in Jack Wines.

97
00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,640
Speaker 1: They just need some more proof of concept stuff from

98
00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,680
Speaker 1: j We're gonna come up with, you know, three or

99
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,760
Speaker 1: four more different rattles of wine, and then we were

100
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,760
Speaker 1: going to ship it out to him and have them sample,

101
00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,320
Speaker 1: and then we were supposed to meet in Boston one

102
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,159
Speaker 1: of the times, and they canceled, and then I spoke

103
00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,080
Speaker 1: to Brent Harrison for another six months over the phone. Meanwhile,

104
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,400
Speaker 1: I think we're getting samples. I think we got the

105
00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,680
Speaker 1: foil of the core. Lizzie would send me pictures of

106
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,160
Speaker 1: all this stuff when she was ordering. I said, it

107
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,120
Speaker 1: looks great. We were getting ready for this meeting in Seattle,

108
00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:30,760
Speaker 1: and then the last minute they text me, probably around

109
00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,640
Speaker 1: ten am on a Friday, and I was supposed to

110
00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:35,839
Speaker 1: leave it around four pm to go to Seattle, and

111
00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:40,240
Speaker 1: they said they wanted another live scan. And a live

112
00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 1: scan is what you have to do to be able

113
00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,320
Speaker 1: to get liquor licenses in the rest of the country.

114
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 1: It's just basically a background check. I had one done

115
00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:50,880
Speaker 1: before my d U I, but I wouldn't have been

116
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,240
Speaker 1: able to pass another one but the last ten years,

117
00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,920
Speaker 1: so I should have been fine. And Lizzie said, well

118
00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,880
Speaker 1: they want an updated one, and said, well we just

119
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,200
Speaker 1: had this woman two and half three years ago. I

120
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,400
Speaker 1: should be fine, and she's like, I'll go, you hang back.

121
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,159
Speaker 1: I don't want this to be on professionals, so that

122
00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. I'm going and I'm meeting these people.

123
00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,000
Speaker 1: I kind of had an idea that this wasn't really

124
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,560
Speaker 1: adding up. So I called the Edgewater in Seattle for

125
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,280
Speaker 1: assistance with an existing and I said, hey, is there

126
00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,000
Speaker 1: a room for Elizabeth Mulder in another room for Jay Avery?

127
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 1: And they said no, and I said, okay, So I

128
00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,680
Speaker 1: text Lizzy. I said, give me the confirmation number for

129
00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,520
Speaker 1: the hotel. So ten minutes later I got confirmation. So

130
00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,800
Speaker 1: then I called the hotel and I spoke to the

131
00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,240
Speaker 1: same lady and she said, someone just called and booked

132
00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:47,080
Speaker 1: that room. Then all of a sudden, Jay gets an

133
00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:53,160
Speaker 1: email from Brent Harrison canceling their Seattle meeting altogether. I

134
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,880
Speaker 1: just I knew right then and there this whole thing

135
00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,840
Speaker 1: was a bunch of it was just bs. I knew,

136
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,080
Speaker 1: and I cried, I'll be honest, man, I was. I

137
00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,800
Speaker 1: cannot believe that all this is not what it is.

138
00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,400
Speaker 1: I was so hurt, so I didn't even go to anger.

139
00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,840
Speaker 1: I didn't go. I just laid in bed for a

140
00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,360
Speaker 1: little bit and gathered myself and said, okay, what do

141
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:27,560
Speaker 1: we do. Marla's text Lizzie and said, you know, we

142
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,240
Speaker 1: know that this isn't adding up. And that's when Marla

143
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,320
Speaker 1: asked me for all my big statements, all my emails

144
00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,960
Speaker 1: for the company, everything, and every day, for anywhere from

145
00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,160
Speaker 1: one to four hours a day, she sat in the

146
00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:47,160
Speaker 1: office and printed out everything. No one knew it at

147
00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,360
Speaker 1: a time, but Jay's wife, Marla would turn out to

148
00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,439
Speaker 1: be crucial to the case. There is another complaints though.

149
00:08:54,760 --> 00:09:02,880
Speaker 1: He was going through a very stressful, difficult divorce and

150
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:04,880
Speaker 1: she was supposed to be doing all the paperwork or

151
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,079
Speaker 1: all the tacks is and all the financials for it.

152
00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,840
Speaker 1: That's where my red flag went up was because his

153
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,880
Speaker 1: child sports through the roof because he couldn't get these

154
00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,679
Speaker 1: financials in and it didn't make sense to me. It

155
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:23,480
Speaker 1: was like a month yet link between the lawyer and her.

156
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 1: I kept trying to get all this financial information for

157
00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:32,800
Speaker 1: Core so that this could be wrapped up. Lizzie actually

158
00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,880
Speaker 1: knows Jay's ex wife and has her hands in all

159
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:42,600
Speaker 1: of Jay's divorce paperwork, grossly inflating Jay's finances, making his

160
00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:47,360
Speaker 1: ex wife entitled to more alimony. So when Jay and

161
00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,240
Speaker 1: Marlaw finally sit down with Detective Jordan Miracian at the

162
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,880
Speaker 1: Laguna Beach Police Department after months of being turned away,

163
00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,600
Speaker 1: Jay is convinced Lizzie Mulder and his ex wife are

164
00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,960
Speaker 1: concer spiring against him. And the short version of his

165
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,800
Speaker 1: story was, while I was in rehab, my accountant colluded

166
00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,880
Speaker 1: with my ex wife, who I'm in a custody battle

167
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:15,080
Speaker 1: with and child support battle with, and together they emptied

168
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,520
Speaker 1: my account. That's what he thought initially. Yeah, it sounds

169
00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:24,160
Speaker 1: like a mess, right. And their theory was that Lizzie Molder,

170
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:29,120
Speaker 1: my suspect, had elevated the books to make it appear

171
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,320
Speaker 1: that Jay was making more money, so when Jay and

172
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,320
Speaker 1: his ex wife went to court, she would get more

173
00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,160
Speaker 1: alimony and child So that was their theory. They didn't

174
00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,840
Speaker 1: think Lizzie was a con artist. They thought his ex

175
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,680
Speaker 1: wife was putting her up to it so she could

176
00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,240
Speaker 1: get more alimony. Correct, And that turned out not to

177
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,240
Speaker 1: be true at all. We couldn't prove or disprove it.

178
00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,800
Speaker 1: Were they hoots? I couldn't. I couldn't say. But what

179
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,000
Speaker 1: I what I can say is it with fraud? Right,

180
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,240
Speaker 1: I know how much money I make. Right? If I

181
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,480
Speaker 1: had just pulled up here in a brand new Maserati,

182
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,840
Speaker 1: anyone would say, Wow, where do you get the money?

183
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,160
Speaker 1: Get the money? He's either really good at bitcoin, or

184
00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,480
Speaker 1: he's a crook because Steel Beach isn't paying him enough

185
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,840
Speaker 1: to you know. Yeah. So I don't think the ex

186
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:24,080
Speaker 1: wife was necessarily involved, but I think presented with the

187
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,360
Speaker 1: information that Lizzie was giving her, probably, I mean I

188
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,880
Speaker 1: would think that that's exciting. You know, I'm gonna get

189
00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,640
Speaker 1: more child support. I'm gonna get I'm gonna get more

190
00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,160
Speaker 1: support for my kids. So why would you ask any questions.

191
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:38,760
Speaker 1: It's like when you get your taxes done, if you

192
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,800
Speaker 1: get a big return, you're not gonna ask your accountant

193
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,480
Speaker 1: how do you pull that off? You're just gonna say, Okay,

194
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,400
Speaker 1: as long as I don't get audited, we're good. Right. Interesting,

195
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,839
Speaker 1: So jase ex wife is not in on the scam.

196
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,800
Speaker 1: Lizzie Mulder is feeding her lies too to ramp up

197
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,360
Speaker 1: the drama and distract everyone from what's really going on.

198
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 1: After Jay's current wife, Marla judiciously examines all of the

199
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 1: financial records for Jack Wines, she starts putting the puzzle together.

200
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,680
Speaker 1: So I was going through the emails and I found

201
00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:18,000
Speaker 1: the invoices, and I called these companies and I would say, like,

202
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,680
Speaker 1: do you have an invoice from Jack Wines for this

203
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,880
Speaker 1: amount with this invoice number, and they're like, no, that

204
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:29,880
Speaker 1: doesn't exist. Remember though at first Detective Morackian isn't convinced

205
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,840
Speaker 1: an actual crime has occurred. He's just meeting with Jay

206
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,640
Speaker 1: and Marla to assuage them, to make them feel heard,

207
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,920
Speaker 1: to be polite. I'm like, okay, this is gonna This

208
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,280
Speaker 1: is a domestic court, family court, civil court, but not

209
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:53,240
Speaker 1: criminal court. I'm out, what got you back in, Marla? Marla? Yeah,

210
00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:58,480
Speaker 1: So Marla had very meticulous records and emails. It gets

211
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,960
Speaker 1: very convoluted within that you have a fake email address

212
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,480
Speaker 1: with a fake name. And the bottom line is Marlow

213
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:11,199
Speaker 1: was able to present documentation to show that there fake

214
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 1: people who are accepting invoices on behalf of Lizzie Molder

215
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:20,040
Speaker 1: and Jack Wines, and money is not going from Jack

216
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,120
Speaker 1: Wines to these people, It's going right back into Lizzie

217
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:30,040
Speaker 1: Moulder's account, because she could prove that immediate. So that

218
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,600
Speaker 1: swayed you. It swaghed me enough to at least pull

219
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,960
Speaker 1: a case number and listen, given that it was the

220
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,640
Speaker 1: end of the day, I gave j about forty five

221
00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,280
Speaker 1: minutes and Marla and then I said, well, you know,

222
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 1: we gotta cut the short. Um, I need you to

223
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,160
Speaker 1: go back and get some bank records. I gave him

224
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,400
Speaker 1: some homework. In my head, I was like, they probably

225
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,880
Speaker 1: won't come back. Oh but Jay and Marla do come

226
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,480
Speaker 1: back with tons of evidence, and Detective Miraqian begins piecing

227
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,760
Speaker 1: together the full extent of Lizzie Moulder's scams, and then

228
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,480
Speaker 1: she creates a fake invoice from the wine company right

229
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,480
Speaker 1: shows Jay, Hey, here's the invoice for eight thousand dollars.

230
00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,000
Speaker 1: I paid it out of my own pocket. So you

231
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:20,840
Speaker 1: just reimburse me, reimburse my company molder Financial or later

232
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,560
Speaker 1: on income tax payments, which is a totally different scheme.

233
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,080
Speaker 1: So she ha j fell victim two as well. Yes

234
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,320
Speaker 1: she was making these tax payments allegedly, but really that

235
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,000
Speaker 1: should that they were going to her own Bank of

236
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,200
Speaker 1: America account labeled income tax payments. Yeah, and and income

237
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,840
Speaker 1: tax payments. You know this This kind of goes into

238
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:45,400
Speaker 1: the naivety of business owners. J. You owe the I

239
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,880
Speaker 1: R S thirty dollars. I'm going to negotiate it down

240
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,680
Speaker 1: to twenty tho. I just need you to cut a

241
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:56,040
Speaker 1: check for your debt to the I R S. J says, Okay,

242
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,480
Speaker 1: and then what Lizzie would do is she would call

243
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,520
Speaker 1: him back and say, good new news. I negotiated it

244
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,680
Speaker 1: down to twenty dollars. So when you see a check

245
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,440
Speaker 1: go out to income tax payments for twenty grand, that's

246
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 1: your payment to the i r S. Not knowing that

247
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,760
Speaker 1: you write a check to the Internal Revenue Service or

248
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,760
Speaker 1: the U. S. Treasury or the U. S Treasure, you

249
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,920
Speaker 1: don't write it to income tax payments. It's crazy to

250
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,600
Speaker 1: me the Bank of America ever allowed a dB A

251
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,080
Speaker 1: called income tax payments in the first place, but it

252
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 1: is crazy. But by far the craziest and most complex

253
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,080
Speaker 1: scam Lizzie pulls on Jack Wines over the course of

254
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,760
Speaker 1: a year is one for the record books. The Wine Trust,

255
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,440
Speaker 1: that Chinese company that wants to pour millions of dollars

256
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,400
Speaker 1: into Jay's winery. Their guy, Brent Harrison, talks to Jay

257
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,400
Speaker 1: on the phone dozens of times, but always ends up

258
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,400
Speaker 1: canceling in person meetings at the last minute. As you

259
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,240
Speaker 1: might have already guessed, there is no Wine Trust and

260
00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:02,640
Speaker 1: Brent Harrison is Surprise, surprise, Lizzie Mulder. She created a website,

261
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:08,280
Speaker 1: She created a d numbers, she created two personalities, Young

262
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,560
Speaker 1: something a guy named Brent Harrison. So she created this

263
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 1: whole company basically saying they're going to invest into Jack Wines.

264
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,280
Speaker 1: We need to do X, Y and Z to make

265
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 1: that happen. So I put it even more money and

266
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 1: to get bottles and juice and samples and all this stuff.

267
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,840
Speaker 1: And that was like a good amount of money too.

268
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,320
Speaker 1: And that company ended up not even being a real company.

269
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,120
Speaker 1: So I spent probably a good twenty five hours, thirty

270
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 1: hours talking to Brent Harrison. Come to find out she

271
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 1: is Brent Harrison using spoo software. And I'm thinking, I'm

272
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,400
Speaker 1: talking to a guy overseas that wants to invest into

273
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,080
Speaker 1: my winery, and really I'm talking to that woman in

274
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,280
Speaker 1: Orange County that is just scamming me. The whole time.

275
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,880
Speaker 1: It sounded like a map it did. It sounded just

276
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,120
Speaker 1: like a man. It was wild one a hundred number.

277
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,760
Speaker 1: The website there was review was. There was a whole

278
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,240
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff that she did that we looked into.

279
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,320
Speaker 1: So for me, when this all came out, I felt

280
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,679
Speaker 1: like a crazy person because I'm like, is this really

281
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,000
Speaker 1: a thing? Or is this? Did she really do this?

282
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,040
Speaker 1: It just dawned on me the reason she invented this

283
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,040
Speaker 1: investor and correct me if I'm wrong. Was to get

284
00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,280
Speaker 1: you to believe that something big is going to happen

285
00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,679
Speaker 1: for the company, so you would put more money in

286
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:30,720
Speaker 1: so she could take more money out. Yes. At this point,

287
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,920
Speaker 1: Detective Morakian starts building a strong case against Lizzie Molder.

288
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,760
Speaker 1: You had a fake Brent Harrison who I found. You

289
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,679
Speaker 1: have to establish that there's a real So if you

290
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,800
Speaker 1: invent a person, it's not a crime. Correct. You gotta

291
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,200
Speaker 1: be kidding. If it's a real person that's be held

292
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,480
Speaker 1: criminally or civilly liable, it's it's identity theft. But if

293
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,359
Speaker 1: it's a whole invented person, there's no crime. And I

294
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,320
Speaker 1: found a Brent Harrison that was on a board of

295
00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:03,000
Speaker 1: directors for some wine business that was plausible, And it

296
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,480
Speaker 1: was like, that's who she's in person too. And I

297
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 1: talked to him. He's like, I've been out of the

298
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,679
Speaker 1: wine business for ten years. I live in Washington with

299
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,240
Speaker 1: my wife. And I said, well, you're the victim of identity.

300
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,520
Speaker 1: Cup of down. Congratulations. So we were able to have that. Yeah,

301
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,000
Speaker 1: that was a brilliant move. God, God bless you. I

302
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,800
Speaker 1: got creative. Yeah, without I mean obviously without wine or

303
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,720
Speaker 1: making anything up. If there is a real Brent Harrison,

304
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 1: and wherever he was living, he was involved in the

305
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,479
Speaker 1: wine business. He did attend a meeting that j Avery

306
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:40,600
Speaker 1: was at because j Avery, when he was initially bottling

307
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,879
Speaker 1: the wine, he would go into local wineries and they

308
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,600
Speaker 1: do a tasting, right, sell my wine. And from my

309
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 1: understanding was that Brent Harrison was the manager of one

310
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,399
Speaker 1: of these small wine businesses, and he was also on

311
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,080
Speaker 1: the board of directors for a conglomerate, but he was

312
00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,879
Speaker 1: out of the business. Now, the reason why he becomes

313
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:04,360
Speaker 1: a victim. He could, for all intents and purposes, be suited.

314
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,080
Speaker 1: Somebody could say, well, yeah, he can't they frauded by

315
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:13,400
Speaker 1: Brent Harrison. He could have been involved, he wasn't, But yeah,

316
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:18,800
Speaker 1: it becomes very tricky, and professional con artists actually prefer

317
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 1: their scams to be very tricky because the more complicated

318
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,280
Speaker 1: they make their scams, the harder it is for victims

319
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,240
Speaker 1: to explain what happened to them, and the harder it

320
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:36,120
Speaker 1: is for police to believe the scams and investigate them.

321
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 1: Jay Avery has an uphill battle getting police to take

322
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,000
Speaker 1: his case seriously, and he's lost a lot. So she

323
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 1: got me for like two eighty five altogether. Yeah, but

324
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,919
Speaker 1: then the I r S sent me a letter for

325
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 1: it was like a quarter million. Probably lost a couple

326
00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,119
Speaker 1: of million over the divorce Lizzie I R S or

327
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 1: like a seven year period. Wow. Yeah, but yeah, and

328
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 1: that's a couple million you would not have lost if

329
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:21,560
Speaker 1: Lizzie Mulder didn't inject herself into your life. Yeah. One

330
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,680
Speaker 1: of the most interesting things about the Lizzie Milder case

331
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 1: is how her victims don't believe they're victims at first.

332
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 1: A few months after Jay Avery goes to police, Jesse Moulder,

333
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 1: Lizzie's husband, walks into the Laguna Beach Police Department and

334
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 1: tells Detective Iraqian his wife is stealing from her clients.

335
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 1: Jesse walks in, and he gives me the names of

336
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: about six different businesses, and so I start making phone

337
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:57,639
Speaker 1: calls to all those businesses the following Monday, and every

338
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,440
Speaker 1: single one of them. First, they didn't leave I was

339
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 1: a detective. Second, they didn't believe that Lizzie Mulder had

340
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 1: done anything wrong. And third, they weren't entirely convinced that

341
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 1: they were victims of fraud. Because as Mark Twain famously said,

342
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: it's easier to fool people than it is to convince

343
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 1: them that they've been fooled. It's also a testament to

344
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: how believable Lizzie really is. Well, the account documentation that

345
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 1: Lizzie was sending them, which was doctored, showed a balance.

346
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: Everything made sense on paper. So they were defending her

347
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: to you. Yeah, I mean they were basically saying, I

348
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: think you got the wrong girl. Lizzie's a sweetheart. I've

349
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: been at her house, I met her kids and her

350
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: beautiful family, and you know, she's amazing. She's amazing, all

351
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: right at being a sophisticated scammer. When Jay's wife Marla

352
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 1: starts calling all those companies listed on the fake invoices

353
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 1: Lizzie used to scam, Jack Wines, she gets some interesting reactions.

354
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 1: A lot of people were so nice and so cooperative,

355
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: and like, some people were really upset, and I think

356
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 1: it's somebody that she scammed too. In Laguda Beach was

357
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 1: like a Kinko's or something, and he was really upset.

358
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 1: Why is everybody telling me that? Then? Why is this

359
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 1: going on like that? Which I'm sure maybe it was

360
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: an emotional reaction. I'm sure somebody called Jay in the

361
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: midst of their friendship. I don't know what happened there,

362
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 1: but she took money out there all the time from

363
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:38,439
Speaker 1: his account because he was so upset, which did I

364
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: totally understand, like I fully caught him off guard. I'm

365
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: sure I tracked down the guy who Marla fully caught

366
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: off guard that day. His name is Mike Cochrane. I've

367
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: been an entrepreneur since I've been about twenty eight years old. Dad, father,

368
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: four kids, run a series of businesses, but for a

369
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: solid twenty two years I on a print shop, and

370
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 1: that was when I got exposed to Lizzie Moulder. At

371
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: seven ft tall, Mike cuts an imposing figure. He's a

372
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 1: no funny business kind of guy, and printing is in

373
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 1: his blood. My dad was a printer, my grandfather was printer,

374
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: so I'm technically third generation. Wow California Print A Copy

375
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: is the name of Mike's shop, and in eleven he's

376
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 1: looking for a new c p A. We had a

377
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: series of tax issues. My tax guy used for fifteen

378
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: plus years, were tired. We're tired. Yeah, he said he

379
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: had some health issues, so we hired another guy. Through

380
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: referral a friend local to us, and after six months

381
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: he gave us our taxes for two years and he

382
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: made all sorts of errors, and my wife and I

383
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: were like, at this ain't our guy, so we paid him.

384
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 1: We then talked to a few of our clients, because

385
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: when you own a print shop, you're dealing with all

386
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: these small businesses. That's what a lot of the people

387
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: are our clients. You know, there are other business owners.

388
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 1: I was talking to a gal. She was a dog trainer.

389
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: We used to print business cards for her and put

390
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: up graphics on her cars and stuff like that to

391
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: promote her business. She knew a girl, young lady Elizabeth Mulder,

392
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 1: and referred to us. Said she's a tax repairer. And

393
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: what did she tell you about Lizzie Moulder at that point?

394
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: That she's good, like that she had stole her virtues.

395
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 1: You know, it's one of the attributes you reflect on

396
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: when you find out you've been ripped off as why

397
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: and how? And I mean, for me, it was simply

398
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: that I'm a very trusting in person and I feel

399
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: I can size people up. You know, I feel like

400
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: I know when there's a threat and when there isn't

401
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: I didn't feel any of that, and at that time

402
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: in my business. We got to know her in late

403
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven and my dad was in the last

404
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: four months of his life, so I was super distracted.

405
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: You know. I would go into work, work three or

406
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: four hours, and then I'd get in my truck, drive

407
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: down to carlstadd where my dad was, spent three or

408
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: four hours with him, bring him stuff, hang out with him,

409
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: go see my mom, and then come home at eight

410
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 1: o'clock and I and repeat it. So, you know, that's

411
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: one of the things that you find about these scam

412
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: artist type people is Lizzie profiled certain people. Anybody she

413
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 1: could run across, but they had to fit a certain criteria.

414
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: They had to have funds behind them of some variety

415
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: or nature, and approachable, you know, and uh busy. Yeah,

416
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: I think that that was her biggest thing that she

417
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: got on us as we were busy. Yeah. Well, I

418
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: mean every small business owner is busy, because you know,

419
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: I come from a family of small business owners. When

420
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: you run a small business, you wear many hats. You

421
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: gotta be this this day, you've gotta be that that day.

422
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: You gotta do everything. You can't hire bodies for all

423
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: the work you gotta do it. Yeah, so of course

424
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: you're busy. Yeah. She targeted small businesses for sure. Yeah.

425
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,719
Speaker 1: And then Lizzie Mulder starts grooming her new mark and

426
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: gets really close. Lizzie was around for a couple of

427
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: years to two and a half years. We were friends,

428
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: and she talked about when she was a young girl

429
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: that she started riding horses and she went through a

430
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 1: stable where she met the dog trainer. They rode horses,

431
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: then they started to competitively ride them long distance across

432
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: country horse racing. I think it's what they call it,

433
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: something like that sounds expensive? Is what sounds expensive? Man?

434
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: That sounds like Orange County, doesn't it. And she came

435
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: in and she said all the right things. She had

436
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: the right look, wearing her norse stroom's closed, good jewelry,

437
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: her nails are done, you know, she looked glamorous. Yeah,

438
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: and we kind of had a mini interview, my wife

439
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: and I. My wife was doing the books at the time.

440
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: We were really busy with our lives. You know. Lizzie

441
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: comes in, gives us her resume. Here's all my work experience,

442
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: here's you know what I know, and I graduated from Ah,

443
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: wasn't it Pepperdine Pepperdine University? I apologize, Yeah, Sima kum

444
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: Latta the boot you know. You know that's the best

445
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: part is when you start evaluating, when you get ripped off,

446
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: you find out what the fuck was wrong with me? Man?

447
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: I mean, how many people do I know that really

448
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: did graduate? Sima Kulata. You know, it's amazing how people's

449
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: minds can spend this stuff and make it convincing. Yeah. Yeah, Well,

450
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: I mean society functions by trust. You know, when there's

451
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: a knock at the door and it's the ups guy,

452
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: if you don't trust that it is, you'll never open

453
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 1: your door, You'll never leave your house. Society would grind

454
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: to a halt without trust. So that's what Lizzie Mulder

455
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 1: and other use. They know when they say they went

456
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: to Pepperdine, you're just gonna trust that that's true. Yeah.

457
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: The more I hear about Lizzie Mulder from My conquer

458
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: and the more curious I get about the dog trainer,

459
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: the dog trainer recommends her. The dog trainer recommended her. Yes,

460
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: it was like her second mom, she claimed, and all that.

461
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: So I run the dog Trainer through my three background

462
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: check databases, and I find a phone number and I

463
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: call her up and I get her voicemail. Now, I

464
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: don't want her to know I'm calling about Lizzie Malder

465
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: because then she might never call me back. But I

466
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: don't want to lie either, so I keep things they

467
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: but truthful. Hey, my name is Jonathan Walton. I'm working

468
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: on a podcast for I Heart Radio, and I really

469
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: want to interview you. Give me a call back as

470
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: soon as you can. So the next day, the dog

471
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: Trainer calls me back and blows my mind. According to her,

472
00:28:49,160 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: Lizzie Malder is being set up next time on Queen

473
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: of the Con the o C Savior. You know, the

474
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: embarrassing part about us is we're one of the lower

475
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: rip offs. Okay, she took eighteen thou dollars out of

476
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: my business. She took a little over twenty out of

477
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: my parents. And it looks like this con artist might

478
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: not be working alone. The dog Trainer tells me Lizzie

479
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: Maulder is innocent. Lizzie Maulder is not a con artist.

480
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: That's my mind is long right now, and speaking is

481
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: any evening. An expert weighs in on just how good

482
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: a con artist Lizzie Mulder really is. So, what's your

483
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: take on the dog trainer that Lizzie did a hell

484
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: of a job on her. I think that it's kind

485
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: of one of those things where they all stick together,

486
00:29:49,080 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: kind of like cops stick together, you know, of the

487
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: con The O C Savior is a production of a

488
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: y R Media and I heeart Media, Hosted by me

489
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: Jonathan Walton, Executive producers Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions

490
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: and Eliza Rosen for A y R Media. Written by

491
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: Jonathan Walton, Consulting producer Evan Goldstein, Senior Associate producer Eric Newman.

492
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: Sound design by baked ZD Media, mixed and mastered by

493
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: Cameron Taggy. Sound editing, audio and studio engineering by Matt Jacobson.

494
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: Legal counsel for a y R Media, Gianni Douglas, Executive

495
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: producer for I Heeart Media, Maya Howard